* Fiscal Stability Treaty Referendum 31st May 2012 *

[C. Flower]

Could it be mischief by theSindo? The above line strikes me as lacking credibility . But then again there is a lot of detail....

It is mischief. That doesn't mean that it isn't true.

Could some people see an FF / SF government on the horizon, and be picking up confidence ?

[Ah Well]

Don't think so, somehow. Less likely if no vote. But then again the likes of McWilliams say that our debt is so high that we lack credibility . That's one of my reasons for a yes vote. That it is followed by hardball.

Do you honestly think the crowd governing this country are capable of playing hardball -v- Frau Merkel et al? I wouldn't remotely for one second. Do they even know what they're at? One more reason for NOT voting yes and capitulating as usual

[Greengoddess]

What people? Sorry, not on all cylinders today

[C. Flower]

What people? Sorry, not on all cylinders today

The old FF networks, who have not gone away.

And those who see the affinity between SF and FF.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...e-3095275.html

[riposte]

This is headwrecking stuff. As you know I think the whole compact will crash and burn anyway. Better to vote yes and fire one of the missiles!

I understand your position very well Greengoddess .... principles be damned ......do the wrong thing for pragmatic reasons.

if Pearse and Connoly hadn't been such idiots we would never have had all this nonsense about self dertermination and independence.

[Greengoddess]

The old FF networks, who have not gone away.

And those who see the affinity between SF and FF.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...e-3095275.html

There seem to be also people talking about affinity between labour and SF...

[Greengoddess]

I understand your position very well Greengodess .... principles be damned ......do the wrong thing for pragmatic reasons.

if Pearse and Connoly hadn't been such idiots we would never have had all this nonsense about self dertermination and independence.

Many times people do the right thing for the wrong reasons. If for instance I were to act in self interest it would serve me well to go off in another direction. Why do u think I haven't done that?

[coolvr]

Minister for Finance Michael Noonan has said that eurozone countries have agreed to keep funding Ireland beyond 2013 if it is not able to tap debt markets.

'There is a commitment that if countries continue to fulfil the conditions of their programme the European authorities will continue to supply them with money even when the programme is concluded,' Noonan said on RTE's News at One.

'The commitment is now written in that if we are not back in the markets the European authorities will give us money until we get back in the markets.

'That takes the whole issue of a second bailout for Ireland off the table,' he added.
Mr Noonan said the changes that have now been negotiated will make Ireland's rescue programme more sustainable in the long-term, but he ruled out easing cuts and tax increases in December's Budget as a result of the revised measures.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0722/eu.html


I know that was last July and a lot has happened since then but the general tone/content seems to pretty much tie in with what opponents to the Referendum are saying, providing we keep meeting our targets then there is no question of funding being withdrawn/denied even if we vote No.

Now it's very likely that should we say No and we do indeed need further funding from the Troika then they will seek to impose much stricter conditions on us but that's a whole different ballgame from refusing to help us as the government are saying.

The commitment is now written in that if we are not back in the markets the European authorities will give us money until we get back in the markets

So if it was "written in" back in July then either it's still written in now or else the government allowed it to be written out, and if so then surely they are as guilty of economic treason as Fianna Fail were?

[riposte]

[

It's a rare person who has a full grip on their own motivations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_analysis

[Greengoddess]

It's a rare person who has a full grip on their own motivations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_analysis

Psychoanalysts have more then most. An occupational necessity and hazard too. It generally tends to be uncomfortable.

[ang]

In the interests of clarity - IMF interest rates on our current loan from them -

At the current SDR interest rate, the average lending interest rate at the peak level of access under the arrangement (2,320 percent of quota) would be 3.12 percent during the first three years, and just under 4 percent after three years.

http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pr/2010/pr10462.htm

[ang]

Hmmmmm -

Finance Minister Michael Noonan has said that comments made by an IMF spokesperson in an article in today's Sunday Times were misrepresented.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/n...#ixzz1tSJSTFd1

Sunday Times journalist Mark Paul -

‏ @MarkPaulST No minister Noonan I didn't "misinterpret" IMF. I simply reported them, accurately. They said "no conditionality" re ESM for IMF loan

[C. Flower]

Posted this a little while back. Noonan broke of his Sunday dinner to issue this...

Statement by Minister for Finance, Michael Noonan, TD:

"The statement by a spokesman for the IMF quoted in today's Sunday Times is being misinterpreted. The IMF have made it crystal clear in the negotiations of the Greece, Ireland and Portugal bailout programme that:
they will not provide unilateral assistance to Eurozone countries
they have only been prepared to contribute to a bailout if Europe takes the lead
the amount of the IMF contribution depends on the amount of the European contribution
If Ireland votes no in the referendum, Ireland will not have access to access to ESM funds. The ESM will be the only source of bailout funds when the Irish programme ends.

The Government wants to give certainty at home and abroad. Certainty builds confidence. A Yes vote gives certainty and builds confidence. A No vote is a leap into the unknown”

The Government wants to frighten the electorate, and will use every weapon it can reach for, even if it is damaging to the country, in the event of a perfectly legitimate No vote.

As Fine Gael is setting out a scenario of Ireland being ungovernable in the event of the Treaty being rejected, perhaps they should make the Referendum a vote of (no) confidence in the Government.

[unspecific]

IMF confirm Ireland will always be able to access its funds. Makes ESM bluff/blackmail clause completely redundant. Will all those who disagreed with the treaty but thought we would have no safety net now stick with their principles and vote no?

[riposte]

Many times people do the right thing for the wrong reasons. If for instance I were to act in self interest it would serve me well to go off in another direction. Why do u think I haven't done that?

[

It's a rare person who has a full grip on their own motivations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_analysis

Psychoanalysts have more then most. An occupational necessity and hazard too. It generally tends to be uncomfortable.

We were trying to get to the bottom of why you do what you do .. not examine the maleficence of all the psychoanalysts in the USA. But then self-knowledge is too heavy a burden for some to carry.