Religious Orders Wealth Submissions

[Andrew49]

The Congregations pledged to top up the 2002 indemnity deal with further contributions which they valued at €348.51m < -- €110m of that figure is cash. This brings the sum to be paid by religious -- much of it in land -- to €476.51m. The Government is pressing 18 religious orders to pay half of the expected €1.36bn bill for the Ryan investigation into systematic abuse of children in industrial schools and orphanages. This would require all the orders including the Christian Brothers and the Sisters of Mercy to contribute towards the overall target assigned to them of €680m.

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Daughters of the Heart of Mary - not mentioned in the Ryan report. Offer €1.5 million
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De La Salle Provincialate Offer €1 million - charitable donation

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Christian Brothers European Province. Offer made in spirit of compassion and justice. Offer of €10 million for education, welfare and medical needs of former residents.

Additional sum of €20 million will be donated to the trust established by Government on the disposal of properties - this contribution in 5 years time.

A sum of €4 million over the next 5 years to support counselling services etc for those abused in the institutions.

Proposal to transfer all playing fields to separate independent trust run by government and Edmund Rice Schools Trust [ERS Trust]. Value €127 million

Set up of Edmund Rice Schools Trust in 2008 ... independent of Christian Brothers .... value of properties in 2008 €430 million

Christian brothers continue to administrate ERS Trust

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Dominican Provincialate ... €6.5 million - ex-gratia

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Good Shepherd Provincialate €0

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Daughters of Charity St Vincent de Paul €10 million unconditionally

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Congregation of the Brothers of Charity €1.5 million - charitable donation

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Presentation Brothers Anglo-Irish Province €3 million - charitable donation

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Nazareth House: Our contribution, as valued by independent valuers is €2 million by way of rent waived for a 5 year period. The €2 million is made up of market rent of €350,000 per annum for 5 years for the new care home and €50,000 per annum for the former Nazareth House .....

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Sisters of St Louis. €1 million

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Sisters of St. Clare. €1 million - charitable

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Sisters of Our Lady of Charity. €1.5 million. Transfer of property to HSE: 282 sq. metre 6 bedroom purpose built child care facility on 0.14 hectacres

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Irish Provinces, Union of Sisters of the Presentation of the Blessed Virgin Mary. €5 million (€4 million in cash and €1 million represents market value of st. bernard's group homes fethard co. Tipperary with the field attached, intend to transfer to HSE or government nominee. All solely for the benefit of past residents of residential institutions .... charitable. If the property is refused the congregation will not make a cash contribution in substitution

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Oblates of Mary Immaculate €20 million. charitable uses only and preferably for former Daingean residents

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Sisters of Mercy. €31.590,000 (€20 million in cash and €11.590,000 in properties)

To the State: Properties valued at €80.856,800
To the Voluntary sector properties valued at €15,060,000.

Our contribution necessarily is subject to relevant civil and Canon Law consents

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Hospitaller Order of St John of God €1 million - charitable

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Sisters of charity €5 million over next 5 years. Sisters of Charity will also continue to support past residents through the Mary Aikenhead Fund

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Rosminians €0 taking into account €4 million for one property in 2002 and €7.1 million in handover of one property to HSE

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[C. Flower]

That's hard reading. There's so much that could be read into it - the amounts in some case are so tiny, if you look at a 4 million court award last week to an individual who suffered damage at birth. Terms and conditions apply, and "charitable donations" (on legal advice?) rather than redress and compensation. But its so much if you look back at past denials and refusal to admit any wrongdoing.

My personal preference would be to see CAB take the lot off them, over and above a reasonable pension for those over retirement age.

[Andrew49]

That's hard reading. There's so much that could be read into it - the amounts in some case are so tiny, if you look at a 4 million court award last week to an individual who suffered damage at birth. Terms and conditions apply, and "charitable donations" (on legal advice?) rather than redress and compensation. But its so much if you look back at past denials and refusal to admit any wrongdoing.

My personal preference would be to see CAB take the lot off them, over and above a reasonable pension for those over retirement age.

I thought the publication of the Ryan Report would mean that the Religious Orders would be brought to book, not that they'd be asked to go through their own books and property portfolios. Being brought to book would mean these people being prevented from working with vulnerable communities like children, especially schoolchildren, the elderly and those in health care facilities whether they are hospitals or hospices.

Institutional abuse can't be measured. It doesn't have a book value so to speak. It's more important that children in care, now and in the future, are protected as far as possible from abuse. Yet at least four of these Religious Orders are still being treated as respectable despite judicial findings that they were complicit in the cover-up of abuse.

Despite the many flaws of the Child Abuse Commission and Redress Board the Government has been able to deliver a measure of dignity and vindication to survivors - we were never going to get 'perfect justice' where these Orders would have been raided and their assets seized and they'd be told to leave the country with what they could carry. The Taoiseach actually has the power to dismiss them from Ireland ... yet we still have some of these Orders working directly with vulnerable communities.

The cash offers here are going into a trust fund - that's a done deal reading the communications between the Religious Orders and the Government - many of the Orders mention the 'Trust Fund the Government is establishing' and that that's where their cash contribution should go. I don't have any particular views on this Trust Fund except to say it's a logical thing to do ... one 'survivor representative' said any cash should be distributed individually and equally to each survivor, which is his way of putting a book value on the abuses.

I'd like to see the Government remove these religious orders from schools and hospitals.

[Andrew49]

I've compiled a table of the Religious Orders Assets & Liabilities and I've also included in the table the 'offer of substantial contribution by way of reparation for the suffering of children in residential institutions' LINK to Government Statement July 28 2009 .

The information in the table is from apparently private and apparently confidential letters between the Religious Orders and the Government.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

There is a line in there about the 438million transferred to the Edmund Rice Schools Trust which was set up by the Xtian Brothers. Its not clear to me from that whether they are suggesting those assets are now protected or whether they form part of the assets to be transferred to the Trust for survivor funds.

I'm betting that the church is claiming that 438million is school-related assets such as property etc. Andrew, do you know whether there is a published list of the assets there? I've a feeling that there are one or two hotels masquerading as 'retreats' in there which they should not be allowed to just walk away with unchallenged.

If they have commercial assets they should be handed over and not merely transferred from one trust to another as a ruse to have them excluded from the calculations..

[Andrew49]

There is a line in there about the 438million transferred to the Edmund Rice Schools Trust which was set up by the Xtian Brothers. Its not clear to me from that whether they are suggesting those assets are now protected or whether they form part of the assets to be transferred to the Trust for survivor funds.

I'm betting that the church is claiming that 438million is school-related assets such as property etc. Andrew, do you know whether there is a published list of the assets there? I've a feeling that there are one or two hotels masquerading as 'retreats' in there which they should not be allowed to just walk away with unchallenged.

If they have commercial assets they should be handed over and not merely transferred from one trust to another as a ruse to have them excluded from the calculations..

In Their Own Words:
In 2008, the Christian Brothers established the Edmund Rice Schools Trust company for the development and good management of the schools. This is now a trust company independent of the Christian Brothers. The value of the school properties at the point of transfer to the new trust company in 2008 was independently assessed at €430 million. In addition, the Christian Brothers bore the establishment and development costs of almost €5 million for the new trust company. We will continue to donate the administrative costs of the Edmund Rice Schools Trust over the next 5 years in the amount of €8 million.
All the above from communication letter to the Government.

Apparently most of the congregations started going down the 'setting up of trusts' route in the 90s ..... coincidentally at the same time that abuses in the Institutions were beginning to get serious media attention.

[C. Flower]

Isn't the "Trust" route one that was taken first in the US ? There was ample warning of it, if anyone in the Government had wanted to pre-empt it.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I'm particularly watching ERST because their Board of Trustees was headed by Pat Cox of the European parish and he sits along with I think two christian brothers on that board.

He's never been asked by a journalist what he thinks he's doing facilitating the squirreling away of assets by the CB in an effort to hang on to certain investments.

I'm aware that the messaging around ESRT is all 'schools' but what interests me particularly is the Emmaus property in Swords belonging to the CB up to last year which is portrayed by the CB as a 'retreat and conference center' presumably as a tax avoidance schtick but as far as I can see that property was a commercial property development and run as a hotel. I'd love to know whether that hotels is listed as part of the transfer of assets into the control of the ERST.

If so there is a very good case for contesting its status as a 'school' and taking the hotel as a recoverabe asset from the CB. Its got to be worth millions on its own.

Its listed here as a catholic retreat centre owned by the CB http://www.catholicireland.net/churc...retreat-houses

Here is the link to the Emmaus property in Swords. Nice place by the looks of it and quite swish. http://www.emmauscentre.ie/multi/default.asp?itemId=193

I wonder is there any way of getting at what assets comprise that CB's 430million..? If the Emmaus centre is in there it should be handed over.

[johnfás]

The Board of the Edmund Rice School's Trust is not chaired by Pat Cox, though he is a member. It is chaired by Mr Justice Peter Kelly, of the Commercial Court.

According to the Irish Times in May 2009, the Emmaus Retreat remains in the possession of the Christian Brothers.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Thanks for that Johnfas- I recall looking at ESRT last year and Cox was definitely in the Chair then. Obviously they've rotated since. Again the question to Pat Cox should be 'why are you assisting the Christian Brothers to hide assets'?

The Emmaus 'retreat' needs to be looked at again and in particular at its status. Looks like a commercial hotel and conference centre to me.

I'm aware that the marketing bumpf on the website stresses retreats etc but clearly it is operating on a commercial basis as a hotel as well;

'Emmaus offers modern residential accommodation with 62 ensuite guest rooms of the highest standard close to Dublin Airport. The Conference Venue and Meeting Rooms are equipped to facilitate the needs of modern technology. Dining Rooms and Coffee Docks are tastefully decorated to add to the comfort of those attending any programme. The Oratory and Prayer Rooms offer an oasis of quiet for all. Residents are invited to join the community for prayer, if they so wish.

Emmaus has the added advantage that, while being within ten minutes of Dublin Airport and three minutes off the M1 it rests in the beautiful setting of rural mature grounds which offer quiet tree-line pathways, landscaped gardens and a river walk. The sound of birdsong and the profusion of wildlife all add to the beauty and tranquility of the place. Here God and nature dwell in harmony.'

Their website also refers to running residential retreats for school children. I shouldn't imagine there is a huge demand for that currently from the Christian Brothers.

[johnfás]

Once they commence the Charities Act 2009 it should be alot easier to find out information as religious bodies will now have to file financial statements annually. Probably won't help you find out any information about the Edmund Rice School's Trust though as education bodies are exempt from the provisions of the Act relating to financial reporting - thanks to lobbying by the universities.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Thats the bit that concerns me. The ESRT is clearly a charity set up with the purpose of managing schools.

The Emmaus Centre in Swords looks very like a commercial operation for gain from where I and any half-sighted accountant would be able to see.

Its definitely not a school. So why are the CB allowed to transfer a commercial asset which is clearly worth millions even in todays market to a charitable trust which is set up to runs schools?

I think the survivor groups would do very well to demand a list of the assets in that 430million slid sideways to the ESRT.

I think there are grounds for complaint to the charities regulator, certainly to politicians involved in the Statement of Assets from Religious Orders.

Why should the CB be allowed to blatantly shift commercial assets?

[johnfás]

The Emmaus Centre isn't owned by the Edmund Rice Schools Trust. According to the Irish Times last May it is owned by the Christian Brothers. However, I think the Irish Times are equally wrong on that point.

It would seem based on the records from Revenue that the Emmaus Centre is its own charity. There is a charity, Irish Christian Brothers - Swords, registered at the Emmaus Centre in Swords. Seems probable that is the Emmaus Centre. It is probably a separate trust and quite likely that it was never in the possession of the Christian Brothers having been settled as a trust from the word go, or from the time that it was developed as a retreat in any case.

I wouldn't be overly keen on believing what I see in the papers regarding property ownership in this sort of instance. The particulars of legal relationships are often misunderstood.

Revenue don't discuss the particulars of individual clients so you are unlikely to find out any more information than that. You may get details on the ownership of the site from a search at the Land Registry - I suspect the trust mentioned in this post will be in possession. Once the Charities Regulatory Authority is established under the Charities Act 2009 (realistically going to take about another 18 months) alot more details on charities will become available.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Interesting- thanks for the info Johnfas.

If the Emmaus Centre was owned by the 'Irish Christian Brothers' which apparently nothing to do with the 'Christian Brothers' (People's Front of Judea, anyone) then how come there are Christian Brothers on the Board if its a separate organisation and nothing to do with CB?

It obviously has been in the possession of the Christian Brothers as they are the only religious order mentioned in connection with the centre and it wasn't built by anyone else.

If it isn't in the 430million the Christian Brothers refer to then why isn't it listed as a separate asset?

If the Christian Brothers are going to try and make out that there is a mysterious religous organisation no-one has ever heard of who own the Emmaus and kindly allowed them on the Board I think they'd be on a loser fairly quickly.

Also- it doesn't really matter what trust they use. if its a CB asset then it should be taken into account in the Statement of Assets- otherwise the CB are clearly pulling as expected an attempted flanker.

They need to be questioned about it.

[johnfás]

If it is owned by a trust it is the legal property of the trustees of that trust and the beneficial property of the beneficiaries to that trust with the trustees being legally obliged to use the property for the benefit of the beneficiaries. The fact that all the trustees may be drawn from a particular religious order (we don't know whether this is or is not the case) and that the trust bears a name associating it with that religious order isn't that relevant from a legal point of view, in the absence of a fraud being committed.

I would imagine that the Emmaus Centre, in its incarnation as a retreat, has always been held in an individual trust. It would be the normal way to order such an operation. One would have to know the history of the property to make a guess at how it was held in a previous incarnation and I don't have a clue on that front.