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Thread: Traveller Children Denied an Education

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    Default Traveller Children Denied an Education

    The very first of the "austerity" cuts made by Fianna Fail was cuts in the allowance for books for Traveller children.

    Specialist support teachers for Traveller children have also been cut.

    Now the High Court has confirmed that schools can legally discriminate in favour of settled local people, even though this disadvantages Traveller children.

    Education and literacy is a big leap for Traveller children to take and the livelihoods of their community have traditionally not required them.

    They endure bullying and discrimination by the settled community when they try to join the school system.

    Now, disadvantage is backed by the Courts.

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/m...cy-538456.html

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    Default Re: Traveller Children Denied an Education

    Well, I suppose it fits in with the logic of the state subsidising fee-charging schools - this has been going on for years and is an issue which by and large has been kept carefully below the radar. Wasn't Ho Chi Quinn educated in one of them?
    On a slightly different tack, I'm just reading a book on the history of (the old) Cork Prison at the moment and a mid-nineteenth century report gave the following figures for the prison population in one day [and I quote]: debtors 8; untried 7; tried 23;vagrants 3;various 110. This was made up of 65 men and 86 women. The heading "various" includes police offences, drunkenness, larceny, hooliganism and disorderly behaviour. [end quote]
    An 1856 report relating to the City Gaol stated that 76 boys were whipped that year.
    The point here is that the state (or society?) punishes and has always punished the poor and the powerless. I seem to remember reading somewhere that a huge porportion of the modern day Irish prison population has serious literacy problems. Anyone starting to join the dots here?
    A final point - why are we surprised that the state was forced to assume the debts of the banks and the speculators? Logically, the effects were bound to be passed to the powerless.

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    Default Re: Traveller Children Denied an Education

    I know some parents of deaf kids took to the high courts over in odds with Dept of Education policy on deaf education. Policy on deaf education were controversial and discriminatory. Mind you, in the past committe was run by state appointed people- Prof Conroy, Gleeson the barrister et al . That is gone now replaced with insider civil servant and one outsider.

    Traveller in Galway told me that we were in the same boat when it comes to discrimination and closed minds etc.

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    Default Re: Traveller Children Denied an Education

    We had a thread here on the circuit court leg of the Stokes case.

    http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=8962

    If I might be forgiven for quoting myself, I think it's worth restating what I said in that thread - The boy involved did not suffer unfavourable treatment because he was a traveller. The criteria treat traveller children the same as Polish children or Offaly Children or, to use the old fashioned term, bastards.

    The High Court agreed with that today if DriveTime reporting is to be believed.

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    Default Re: Traveller Children Denied an Education

    SixOne now.

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    Default Re: Traveller Children Denied an Education

    The spokesman from the traveller movement is completely ignoring the fact that this policy affects other people equally with travellers.

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    Default Re: Traveller Children Denied an Education

    Oh dear, he wants 'positive' discrimination.

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    Default Re: Traveller Children Denied an Education

    So it's OK to discriminate against one set of children as long as the discrimination also applies to other sets of children.

    These children won't be exposed to the ethos of the psychotic, and sexually dysfunctional Christian Brothers, and its high time all children in the State were protected from them.
    Give me a misty day, pearly gray, silver, silky faced, wide-awake crescent-shaped smile

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    Default Re: Traveller Children Denied an Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    So it's OK to discriminate against one set of children as long as the discrimination also applies to other sets of children.

    These children won't be exposed to the ethos of the psychotic, and sexually dysfunctional Christian Brothers, and its high time all children in the State were protected from them.
    There is that. But I wonder what happened to them ? Children turned away from the Limerick Second Level system were mainly dead when checked up on a few years later. Life without literacy now is no joke. "All the children..cherished equally"

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    Default Re: Traveller Children Denied an Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    The spokesman from the traveller movement is completely ignoring the fact that this policy affects other people equally with travellers.
    True. It also affects asylum seekers and anyone "outside the loop."

    Great.

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    Default Re: Traveller Children Denied an Education

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    True. It also affects asylum seekers and anyone "outside the loop."

    Great.
    And the middle class even,
    40 kids were turned down.
    What card can they play?

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    Default Re: Traveller Children Denied an Education

    I haved only heard some radio reports of this case but I understand after giving priority to those whose parents or siblings were in that school, that the remaining places were decided by lottery amongst all other candidates.

    Thus imho travelers did not suffer any discrimination as travellers. The High Court were right to dismiss.

    If this action was supported by Pavee Point it is another example travellers advocates wasting tax payers' money.

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    Default Re: Traveller Children Denied an Education

    Quote Originally Posted by jpc View Post
    And the middle class even,
    40 kids were turned down.
    What card can they play?
    The first Judge agreed it was discriminatory. To draw all places by lottery would not be discriminatory.

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    Default Maidir Le: Traveller Children Denied an Education

    I had not realised that a lottery was held for remaining places. In law, the decision may well have beeen the right one.

    In justice, well there's another story.

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    Default Re: Traveller Children Denied an Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    So it's OK to discriminate against one set of children as long as the discrimination also applies to other sets of children.
    There were 40 more applicants than there were places, some means of deciding who got the available places was necessary. No matter what method was chosen it would result in 40 disappointed applicants.

    The court had to decide if the applicant in this case was unfairly discriminated against because he was a traveller and it found that he wasn't.

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