Progressives and Croke Park

[Richardbouvet]

At the time the Croke Park deal was put to union members, I strongly opposed it and voted against it.

I continue to think that Croke Park shamefully exposed the lack of preparedness by partnership-enfeebled union leaders, and also by rank-and-file members as well, to put up a fight in the form of serious industrial action.

Now, Croke Park is coming under mounting attack not from the left but from the right and the media. The Troika are reportedly also demanding it be set aside.

The instinct of some progressives might be to now defend Croke Park against the increasingly strident public service bashers, but my view is that it was a bad deal then and is still a bad deal now.

I have no confidence in the leadership of my union, (Impact) but also, I have to say that I see no sign of any rank and file preparations for a fightback against further attacks on the pay and conditions of ordinary public servants.

I would be interested to learn other peoples' views on this state of affairs.

[unspecific]

At the time the Croke Park deal was put to union members, I strongly opposed it and voted against it.

I continue to think that Croke Park shamefully exposed the lack of preparedness by partnership-enfeebled union leaders, and also by rank-and-file members as well, to put up a fight in the form of serious industrial action.

Now, Croke Park is coming under mounting attack not from the left but from the right and the media. The Troika are reportedly also demanding it be set aside.

The instinct of some progressives might be to now defend Croke Park against the increasingly strident public service bashers, but my view is that it was a bad deal then and is still a bad deal now.

I have no confidence in the leadership of my union, (Impact) but also, I have to say that I see no sign of any rank and file preparations for a fightback against further attacks on the pay and conditions of ordinary public servants.

I would be interested to learn other peoples' views on this state of affairs.

Good on ye. Croke Park was and is a dreadful agreement designed to save the fatcat secretary generals in the civil service and leave the rest of public sector workers to fry. Shop stewards are under orders to sit on their hands and those that refuse to are only slowly relearning the long and proud tradition of trade unionism.

We obviously have to oppose any further attacks on civil servants. It might be the battle that frees the trade union movement from its quisling leadership.

[fluffybiscuits]

Good on ye. Croke Park was and is a dreadful agreement designed to save the fatcat secretary generals in the civil service and leave the rest of public sector workers to fry. Shop stewards are under orders to sit on their hands and those that refuse to are only slowly relearning the long and proud tradition of trade unionism.

We obviously have to oppose any further attacks on civil servants. It might be the battle that frees the trade union movement from its quisling leadership.

Agreed. What is needed for the whole public sector to rise up and completely paralyse to make the whole country sit up. We are in a time of need, not a time of greed. From public transport workers to the people n Revenue we all need to get out. The major issue is the difference in unions, CPSU,PSEU and especially IMPACT cant seem to come to a consensus. United we stand, divided we fall....

[Richardbouvet]

Yes the public sector workers need to rise up, but so far no sign of preparedness to do so.

Certainly, if another pay cut comes through and my union take no serious industrial action, then at least I know one way I can limit my losses, namely by dropping my union subs.

[Baron von Biffo]

It's always amazed me that people think Croke Park is some sort of wonderful deal for PS workers.

A deal that binds the workers to accept any and all impositions from management in return for a highly qualified commitment not to sack them or impose further unilateral pay cuts is not the summit of trade union achievement.

It's worth highlighting the fact that even though the staff have delivered their side of the 'bargain' (and more), the government, business interests and the media are still relentlessly attacking them.

The ultimate goal of course is not to make the PS more effective and efficient but, as Danny McCoy revealed on Plank recently, the outsourcing of PS work to private interests.

[C. Flower]

Yes the public sector workers need to rise up, but so far no sign of preparedness to do so.

Certainly, if another pay cut comes through and my union take no serious industrial action, then at least I know one way I can limit my losses, namely by dropping my union subs.

I think that you can assume that the current leaderships are far too comfortable to face jail. I think there is a need for grass roots branch level organisation that will if need be go beyond the dictats of the leadership and that is not afraid to link up with campaigns to save services. Irish Trade Union leaders, permanently appointed and paid princely sums, are of no use whatsoever in the current situation.

I very much welcome your thread which asks some very good and urgent questions.

The biggest flaw in the Union approach so far is imo that apart from some nurses, I have heard of no actions by trade union members to save jobs and services and prevent privatisation.

Jobs, services and prevention of privatisation and poverty-level wages are the issues that can tie together the public and the unions in agreement and it will need those combined forces working together to put a halt to the destruction that's going on.

A strategy that allows services to be wound down while collecting large sums of early retirement payoffs is imo calculated to isolate Union members from wider public sympathy and should be stopped.

Union members need to stop hiding behind the handful of obstructive leaders at the top and organise laterally across the branches.

[ang]

It's always amazed me that people think Croke Park is some sort of wonderful deal for PS workers.

A deal that binds the workers to accept any and all impositions from management in return for a highly qualified commitment not to sack them or impose further unilateral pay cuts is not the summit of trade union achievement.

It's worth highlighting the fact that even though the staff have delivered their side of the 'bargain' (and more), the government, business interests and the media are still relentlessly attacking them.

The ultimate goal of course is not to make the PS more effective and efficient but, as Danny McCoy revealed on Plank recently, the outsourcing of PS work to private interests.

That does indeed highlight the Croke Park deal for the ordinary worker really is nothing to write home about but what about management cracking the whip and any chance of an equality approach within the public sector for the public sector.?

[Fraxinus]

I think that you can assume that the current leaderships are far too comfortable to face jail. I think there is a need for grass roots branch level organisation that will if need be go beyond the dictats of the leadership and that is not afraid to link up with campaigns to save services. Irish Trade Union leaders, permanently appointed and paid princely sums, are of no use whatsoever in the current situation.

I very much welcome your thread which asks some very good and urgent questions.

The biggest flaw in the Union approach so far is imo that apart from some nurses, I have heard of no actions by trade union members to save jobs and services and prevent privatisation.

Jobs, services and prevention of privatisation and poverty-level wages are the issues that can tie together the public and the unions in agreement and it will need those combined forces working together to put a halt to the destruction that's going on.

A strategy that allows services to be wound down while collecting large sums of early retirement payoffs is imo calculated to isolate Union members from wider public sympathy and should be stopped.

Union members need to stop hiding behind the handful of obstructive leaders at the top and organise laterally across the branches.

How widespread now is the outsourcing of PS to private fims/individuals? I know Coillte have effectively a skeleton staff and practically all work is tendered to the private sector. The health service seems to be another area where a lot of work is tendered for by the private sector.

[fluffybiscuits]

Yes the public sector workers need to rise up, but so far no sign of preparedness to do so.

Certainly, if another pay cut comes through and my union take no serious industrial action, then at least I know one way I can limit my losses, namely by dropping my union subs.

We have badgered CPSU rep for action but so far there has been no sign of much from them bar a few words to whinge that the other unions wont join. We do seem to be completely divided over what we should be doing and what action should be taken. Perhaps its a bigger sign of the apathy that the whole country seems to be paralysed with at the moment. No point in me getting worked up about it, the situation will still be the same in a years time....

[RobertW]

The Croke Park Agreement was a total stitch-up of public sector workers from the previous & present governments with full complicity of the leaders of the unions.

After two separate pay cuts from the rest of the workforce it was becoming quite clear that a third successive cut would be making it clear from Government that the public sector were to be held primarily responsible for repaying the debts of Seanie and the boys.

Yes I am well aware that many in the private sector lost jobs (as many in the public sector have). Yet services are still required to run the state and since CPA the attack on the public sector has come from a different front. . This time on their working conditions - conditions which will remain permanent - and on the pensions and salaries of new entrants to the public sector (whilst the Union leaders remain with their uncut Celtic tiger wage).

It also seems to me that the CPA is not applying to all public sector workers. What precisely are senior civil servants in each Govt dept doing for their Croke Park?

No. . .the QUANGOs have been left untouched whilst the salaries of senior civil servants remain protected whilst a divide and conquer strategy is adopted by the unions, the right wing media and the government in preparation for Croke Park 2.

[Griska]

Croke Park is the natural conclusion to Partnership.
Industrial Peace is the goal, not protection of workers rights.

The union leadership are not providing leadership on what members can do to voice our disapproval. Perhaps it's time they were reminded.

The line given is "nobody wants to see strikes".
And, of course, there's an element of truth in this.
But a big **** off strike would send a message that workers have had enough.

[Baron von Biffo]

Croke Park II will 30,000 pages like this :-



CP I was intended to be so onerous that it wouldn't work. Failure could then be used as an excuse for wholesale sackings. That backfired when the staff delivered significantly more than was asked of them.

CP II will dispense with the subtitles.

[Apjp]

Some Englishman said The business of Progressives is to keep on making mistakes, the business of conservatives is to make even more of them. The whole bloody world is divided between the two cheeks of the same arse.

[Apjp]

At the time the Croke Park deal was put to union members, I strongly opposed it and voted against it.

I continue to think that Croke Park shamefully exposed the lack of preparedness by partnership-enfeebled union leaders, and also by rank-and-file members as well, to put up a fight in the form of serious industrial action.

Now, Croke Park is coming under mounting attack not from the left but from the right and the media. The Troika are reportedly also demanding it be set aside.

The instinct of some progressives might be to now defend Croke Park against the increasingly strident public service bashers, but my view is that it was a bad deal then and is still a bad deal now.

I have no confidence in the leadership of my union, (Impact) but also, I have to say that I see no sign of any rank and file preparations for a fightback against further attacks on the pay and conditions of ordinary public servants.

I would be interested to learn other peoples' views on this state of affairs.

Arent you a Ganley man? Sudden change of heart on right wing politics?

[fluffybiscuits]

Something I found out during the week. In PMDS (one of the things I hate most after mustard) there is no impartial way of getting it reviewed after it being done. I disagreed with my last one and the results but it only goes further up the chain,no third party looks at it that can be impartial. Very fuckin unfair...