Id say youre probably rightOriginally Posted by Ephilant
Here it is
http://issuu.com/bits_n_bytes/docs/memorandum_2/1
http://issuu.com/bits_n_bytes/docs/mnhmonio1-24
Think that's only parts 2 and 3... Cant see the first sorry
Senior Member
Re: The Poverty of the Greek people
Id say youre probably right
Here it is
http://issuu.com/bits_n_bytes/docs/memorandum_2/1
http://issuu.com/bits_n_bytes/docs/mnhmonio1-24
Think that's only parts 2 and 3... Cant see the first sorry
Senior Member
Re: The Poverty of the Greek people
Strike is the only means of collapsing the Greek govt as there is more fight in Greek people. But here alas so much apathy and lack of courage or no real opposition such as Greek Tsaprsis.
The lefties here such as ULA/ Labour is a huge joke really as they don't really represent our interests. However the trouble is brewing here already and may rise when water tax/property taxes start.
Senior Member
Re: The Poverty of the Greek people
You may be right there DS. The only time the Irish become militant is in a land war. And water taxes and property taxes and any other tax which risks people not being able to stay in their home is the trigger there.
We have some 500,000 I believe who have not registered for the Household Charge- is that right?
If so thats a constituency prepared to ignore the government who would normally otherwise grumble and pay up. That is a fair slice of the population beginning to turn bolshie (with all due respect to any ULA members present).
Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.
Senior Member
Re: The Poverty of the Greek people
Irish people have huge attachment to land & love for the land over the centuries as i came from a farming background via generations. Although i have no interest in farming at all but the land is powerful attraction. Strange isn't not?
Yeah about right re 500K plus re non payment of HC (household charge). Water taxes which in my view is a pure retrograde move because we have huge wet weather endlessly for months. People would start their alternative methods to beat water taxes.
Why charge water? lack of brains or ideas in the FG/Lab govt. I think Property/Water charge would start the trigger hopefully as i want to see and kick out their backsides badly as we do. There is some stirring around here as it needs a dynamite to kick-start the anarchy against out govt.
Senior Member
Re: The Poverty of the Greek people
News re Greece (thanks to Guardian)
Greece's prime minister has announced that Athens has reached a deal with its international lenders over its austerity package, after four months of talks.
Antonis Samaras said Greece had secured the best deal possible, and warned of 'chaos' if the €13.5bn programme of cuts and tax rises was not passed. (see 13.14)
• But members of Samaras's coalition do not share his views. The Pasok party has claimed that talks are still continuing, and accused Samaras of undermining Greece (see 17.49) . Democratic Left, the other junior coalition partner, is refusing to support the labour reform section of the package (see 13.41).
• Spain's economy has continued to shrink. Data released this morning showed that Spanish GDP fell by 0.3% in the third quarter of 2012 (see 8.06am) Economists fear that the current quarter will be even worse, and warn that the Spanish economy is in a precarious state (see 8.45am).
• German unemployment rose last month. The jobless total rose by 20,000 - more than expected. (See 9.12am)
• Italy held a successful bond auction, with borrowing costs at their lowest since May 2011. Expects said that Silvio Berlusconi's threat to trigger an early election was being ignored.... (see 10.48am)
• Argentina was put on negative ratings watch by Fitch. Move comes after Argentina lost a court case over how it repays debts which it defaulted on in 2002 (see 15.13).
• The heads of the IMF, OECD, ILO, WTO, the World Bank and the German government warned that the crisis wasn't over. In a joint statement, they said the recovery was fragile and debt levels too high (see 17.21)
Senior Member
Re: The Poverty of the Greek people
Water charges are a manoeuver all around Europe. Providing a service because it is a service doesn't fit with the neo-liberal agenda of valuing everything that moves and adding a profit margin to it.
The other side of the coin of course is that even though governments will try to tell you that the charges are for maintaining the system they'll refuse to invest any money in it because it can always be left until it becomes a crisis for some future administration.
The same with railway privatisation. One administration gets a windfall from the sale and puts the money into the general pot for their distribution as they see fit- in Ireland that would be bribing each other to shut up about the scam. Their cronies would get the contract for 'servicing' the infrastructure and will never invest any money in it because their shareholders would demand to know where their profit has gone.
Systems crumble, cronies get rich, the infrastructure deteriorates and the politician is long gone when the fat lady steps up to the microphone to sing of it all.
Parasite politics.
Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.
Senior Member
Re: The Poverty of the Greek people
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20153875
More misery coming down the line for the Greek people. Their economy is set to contract by 4.5% which in the grand scheme of things spells major trouble for the Greek economy. More labour cuts are coming and a firesale of the state assets. Are we going to see the Germans and French moving in for the companies of the state at cut prices?
However, Germany's Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble has repeatedly opposed any cancellation of the money Greece owes to its bailout lenders, who ultimately include German taxpayers
They may crush the flowers, and trample every living thing but they cant stop the spring..
www.fluffybiscuits.org - Alternatives and Opinions on the World...
Senior Member
Re: The Poverty of the Greek people
What do you mean "ARE WE GOING TO SEE?
OTE, the Greek telephone company was purchased by Deutsche Telefunken
ELLA, the Greek postal services were purchased by Deutsche Post
HELIOS, the solar power system capable of generating 100 GW of power by 2020 has been sold to SDL Solar Power and SPI solar power (US), who also purchased Solar Green Technologies and the Italian EPC. The financial management of the system, funded by venture capitalists Thermi- TANEO Venture Capital Fund and AIMS-TANEO Fund has been put in the hands of Guggenheim Partners (Headed by former Bear Stearns CEO Alan Schwartz, former Goldman Sachs Partner Peter Comisar and former JP Morgan head of investment banking Mark Van Lith) We're in nice company it would seem...
PPC is very much on the wishlist of the German RWE AG, the second largest energy company in Germany and major investor in energy resources in Egypt.
DEPA, the gas comapany is being eyed up by both Gazprom and the Azerbijani SOCAR gas companies.
PIRAEUS container harbour was sold to the Chinese, who are now also eying up a serious stake in some of the Greek shipping companies, while many smaller harbours are being looked at by private investors with a view to developing private yacht harbours etc. A very good friend, working in the real estate business, tells me that the amount of land being purchased by Russian nationals is astonishing. Both in terms of size of the plots as number of finalized deals...
Last edited by Ephilant; 01-11-2012 at 05:59 AM.
Senior Member
Re: The Poverty of the Greek people
At the request of SYRIZA, Minister for Finance Stournaras reluctantly supplied the Parliament with the details of the earnings of the Governor and managers of the Bank of Greece.
Governor: 7.615,92 euro per month
Deputy governors 8.148,12 per month, the other one 7.373,64 per month
Assistant Governors: 4.596,91, 5.944,26 and 6.765,87 euro per month respectively
It took some serious probing and questioning to get the admission in Parliament that these earnings are NET per month, and DO NOT include perks like car, Credit card (for expenses only, of course), pension contributions, bonusses, etc.
To put this in context, the minimum wage in Greece is 586 Euro GROSS per month.
When asked why these people do not pay any social security tax on their handsome wages, it was disclosed that they don't have to, because they already pay their contributions FROM ANOTHER JOB. Proceedings were then halted by the speaker before we could find out what these other jobs are...
Senior Member
Re: The Poverty of the Greek people
Goldman Sachs, presumably. Nothing will stop these people but lead in the head. And quite frankly I look forward to it.
Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.
Senior Member
Re: The Poverty of the Greek people
Rather than any threat of radicalism, isn't it just the old psyche of land in the Irish mindset? Maybe add in the long memory of people being thrown out of their homes in the 1840s, and you have the only potential spark for some resistance here.
Senior Member
Re: The Poverty of the Greek people
That is it, in the same way the Germans have a real fear of hyperinflation Irish people have a fear of being wrenched away from land or property no matter how modest I would suggest.
Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.
Senior Member
Re: The Poverty of the Greek people
Might explain why we are obsessed with house ownership in this country. Could be said it indirectly contributed to the downfall, the urge to own a house after being denied the right for so long under the British...
They may crush the flowers, and trample every living thing but they cant stop the spring..
www.fluffybiscuits.org - Alternatives and Opinions on the World...
Senior Member
Re: The Poverty of the Greek people
http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/2...-fish-migrants
American Newspaper the Concord Monitor has a very straight forward summary of the situation in Greece. Discussing the situation they speak to a Fishmongerer who barely breaks even:
Vassilis Tsiknopoulos, runs a stall at Athens’s central fish market and has been working since age 15. He used to make a tidy profit, he says, pausing to wrap red mullet in a paper cone for a customer. But families can’t afford to spend much anymore, and many restaurants have shut down.
The 38-year-old fishmonger now barely breaks even.
“I start work at 2:30 a.m. and work untill the afternoon, until about 4 p.m. Shouldn’t I have something to show for that? There’s no point in working just to cover my costs. . . . Tell me, is this a life?”
They may crush the flowers, and trample every living thing but they cant stop the spring..
www.fluffybiscuits.org - Alternatives and Opinions on the World...
Senior Member
Re: The Poverty of the Greek people
He's lucky to break even.
Maria, the baker in our town, has a "slate" worth over 8000 €. As she says,
She owes her supplier, they owe their supplier who owes the farmer who owes the government who say we all owe the banksmaybe people will be able to pay. They can't be maybe able to eat...
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