The Cavalry of the Household Charge

[C. Flower]

Two Questions - If the expenses were intended to cover national travel then:-

(1) Why would the act need to make specific reference to the two cases you highlighted above?

(2) Why is the rate dependant on the distance from the constituency to Leinster House?

The Travel Allowance is a rough and ready instrument. The statement above the table says

4. (1) The amount specified in a particular column of the Table to this paragraph is determined as the amount payable to a member of Dáil Éireann as part of the parliamentary standard allowance for the relevant period in respect of travelling facilities for distances, from the member’s normal place of residence in respect of the distance referred to in that column, to and from Leinster House, overnight expenses and travel expenses which the member is obliged to incur in the performance of his or her duties as a member of Dáil Éireann.

It could refer to Constituency travel, or to accepting a Minister's invitation to an event outside it, as allowed for under the Act. How are we to know? The Act would allow for both.

The fact that travel to conferences (but not other conference costs) is excluded from the Expenses Allowance, tends to suggest that the TDs are expected to pay the travel out of their Travel Allowance.

The whole thing needs to be clarified.

Most TDs claim the whole allowance, anyway. TDs, right left and centre, can't keep their seats without living an insane whirlwind of a life, tearing around from funeral to match to clinic to the Dail and back.

[Baron von Biffo]

The Travel Allowance is a rough and ready instrument. The statement above the table says


It could refer to Constituency travel, or to accepting a Minister's invitation to an event outside it, as allowed for under the Act. How are we to know? The Act would allow for both.

The fact that travel to conferences (but not other conference costs) is excluded from the Expenses Allowance, tends to suggest that the TDs are expected to pay the travel out of their Travel Allowance.

The whole thing needs to be clarified.

And Higgins can go for a judicial review. If Jolly's comments represent official ULA thinking though, it looks as if they are trying to find a way to avoid it.

This affair has already been politically damaging to the ULA so the last thing they'd need is for a review to go against them. I'd guess that their advice would be that there's a lot better than a 50/50 chance of that happening.

Most TDs claim the whole allowance, anyway. TDs, right left and centre, can't keep their seats without living an insane whirlwind of a life, tearing around from funeral to match to clinic to the Dail and back.

Absolutely, it's a terrible lifestyle. And sadly the sort of extreme prissiness over pennies that the likes of the ULA makes it worse. If politicians are so keen to demean themselves and their profession that they'll boast about sleeping in their cars as if it was something laudable, can they blame us for not taking them seriously?

[Sam Lord]

You can legislate to ensure that parties can't get more than a set maximum in donations but you can't legislate to force people to donate a minimum.

Why would you want to?

[Baron von Biffo]

Why would you want to?

I wouldn't.

[Dr. FIVE]

Galway CC cuts

http://www.galway.ie/en/News/Title,18230,en.html

Galway County Council has identified a substantial number of programmes which must now be withheld in order to allow the Council achieve a balanced budget for 2012 following the recent notification of a reduction of €3.1 million in the Council’s Local Government Grant for the current year.

The reduction in funding to the Council reflects the level of compliance achived to date in relation to payment of the Household Charge and in particular the fact that approximately 44% of the Householders in the County of Galway have yet to pay their Household Charge*.

‘The proposed reduction in allocation will result in unpalatable cut to Local Services and communities.’ says Ger Mullarkey, the Council’s Head of Finance. The programmes identified to date as having to be withheld include:

• Suspension of housing grants to older people and people with disabilities
• Withholding grants for various community initiatives including, burial ground maintenance, amenity grants, community and enterprise grants
• Suspension of expenditure on library books
• Reduction in resources across a broad range of front-line service areas including:
• Litter control
• Housing Maintenance
• Road maintenance including pothole repairs and verge trimming
• Bridge maintenance
• Maintenance of public conveniences
• Suspension of land drainage works
• Funding for tourism projects
• Funding to community projects (RAPID) in Tuam and Ballinasloe
• Potential delay in recently announced Major Capital Water Services projects.
• Fire Service

*The last figure we had said 63% hadn't paid

[Baron von Biffo]

No problem with a property tax based on welath and ability to pay - big problem with a property tax based on ******** working class people who paid an arm and a leg for a family home, that ended up lining the pockets of developers, bankers and speculators.

That's not what Boyd-Barrett was saying on Vincent Browne during the week. He was against property tax, full stop.

[bernadette]

That's not what Boyd-Barrett was saying on Vincent Browne during the week. He was against property tax, full stop.

I think Boyd-Barrett is right. We already pay for services privately. Its actually hard to see what local authorities pay for that would encourage people to pay the tax. Its said that next years tax will be something like E1000 or more. If that is the case and you add it to what we already pay to private companies we will be paying enormous amounts for the usual nothing.

People can't afford it and without big changes to service providers we will be getting nothing in return.

[Baron von Biffo]

I think Boyd-Barrett is right. We already pay for services privately. Its actually hard to see what local authorities pay for that would encourage people to pay the tax.

Depends where you live I suppose. I live in a town so I have my water and sewage needs met from the public purse. Then there's footpaths, street lights and pedestrian crossings to facilitate me. I have access to an excellent library service within walking distance. Come September when the kids go back to school the town park will again become a place for a quiet stroll.

My brother living in rural Westmeath has a potholed road.

Hardly seems fair that we both pay tax on the same basis does it?

A property tax based on house value would address the unfairness as house value is heavily dependent on levels of service provision. It would also mean that those who can, legally or otherwise, pay little or no income tax, will have to make a contribution to the services they enjoy.

Its said that next years tax will be something like E1000 or more. If that is the case and you add it to what we already pay to private companies we will be paying enormous amounts for the usual nothing.

People can't afford it and without big changes to service providers we will be getting nothing in return.

The €1,000 will have to come from somewhere so better it be from a fair property tax than a hike in the regressive VAT rate or a further hammering of PAYE workers.

[C. Flower]

Depends where you live I suppose. I live in a town so I have my water and sewage needs met from the public purse. Then there's footpaths, street lights and pedestrian crossings to facilitate me. I have access to an excellent library service within walking distance. Come September when the kids go back to school the town park will again become a place for a quiet stroll.

My brother living in rural Westmeath has a potholed road.

Hardly seems fair that we both pay tax on the same basis does it?

A property tax based on house value would address the unfairness as house value is heavily dependent on levels of service provision. It would also mean that those who can, legally or otherwise, pay little or no income tax, will have to make a contribution to the services they enjoy.



The €1,000 will have to come from somewhere so better it be from a fair property tax than a hike in the regressive VAT rate or a further hammering of PAYE workers.

He may have a potholed road, but the likelihood is that they are his own potholes. Miles of remote roads through rural areas are much more costly to build and maintain per capita than the nice tidy road between you and the library.

[bernadette]

He may have a potholed road, but the likelihood is that they are his own potholes. Miles of remote roads through rural areas are much more costly to build and maintain per capita than the nice tidy road between you and the library.

Rubbish. Where do you get that idea from? Roads in my area are if anything used less than those in cities. If you're thinking tractors can I just mention Lorries some of them juggernauts.

There is less traffic on rural roads not more and the traffic is not necessarily heavier than that in the city.

[Baron von Biffo]

He may have a potholed road, but the likelihood is that they are his own potholes. Miles of remote roads through rural areas are much more costly to build and maintain per capita than the nice tidy road between you and the library.

But without them people in urban areas would get very, very thin.

[C. Flower]

Jill Kerby on the Property Tax, coming in next year. Tax will be on the estimated market value of the house, rather than site valuation.

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/bu...does-1-4103968

The Government will announce "bands" of tax and householders will have to select the band that fits their house.

[Baron von Biffo]

Jill Kerby on the Property Tax, coming in next year. Tax will be on the estimated market value of the house, rather than site valuation.

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/bu...does-1-4103968

The Government will announce "bands" of tax and householders will have to select the band that fits their house.

"We were congratulated this time for the fact that a decision was finally taken to introduce a market value property tax from next year. That it was not to be a site value tax instead, which most informed commentators seem to agree would be more equitable and progressive, is of no interest to the Troika."

Am I just an old cynic for wondering if Kerby lives in a high value house?

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/bu...does-1-4103968

[eamo]

I don't get this. My dear wife and I worked (and are still working) to buy a house, one house, to raise a family in. Not to make money out of. It was not easy but so what, we were lucky and healthy enough to pay off the mortgage. Now we are going to be taxed not on income, but on having a home?? Has the country gone mad or what?

[barrym]

What an effin joke. Who the hell is going to chose a high band? In the state of our economy, market value has no meaning. Who will decide you made the "right" choice? It is wide open to collusion, I can see lots of meetings which will decide the choice everyone in an estate will make....

What the troika don't understand is that most people in this country consider "the authorities" to be the enemy, a hangover of our colonial past, and are fundamentally dishonest vis a vis the authorities.

In addition, this particular tax is considered, rightly, to be unfair and inequitable.

Surprised that Kerby has allowed herself to be a 'leak' - except that she actually wants an equitable solution??