The Cavalry of the Household Charge

[C. Flower]

No, she doesn't have one, prefers not to....

I've wracked my (limited ) brain.... It is funny, she is named on another property, but no demand for that.

Indicates to me that they are flailing about, but I am worried about the quality of the data available and its origins. Unfortunately the Data Protection Commissioner has given a carte blanche to them...., so I presume that I cannot complain.

The Data Protection Commission ruling on this drove a coach and horses through citizen privacy.

There's a demonstration called by the ULA for next Wednesday, at the Dail, if your wife wants to respond to this harrassment.

[Baron von Biffo]

The Data Protection Commission ruling on this drove a coach and horses through citizen privacy.

There's a demonstration called by the ULA for next Wednesday, at the Dail, if your wife wants to respond to this harrassment.

Will the Oireachtas be covering expenses?

[Baron von Biffo]

Disappointing to see Mick O'Reilly trying to get local authority workers to make political judgements about aspects of their duty.

It's absolutely essential that all state workers be politically neutral in the discharge of their official functions.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/a...rs-559316.html

[goatstoe]

Disappointing to see Mick O'Reilly trying to get local authority workers to make political judgements about aspects of their duty.

It's absolutely essential that all state workers be politically neutral in the discharge of their official functions.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/a...rs-559316.html

This household charge campaign is different. This is a chance for people to stand up for themselves and make their voices heard. We need to see a campaign build around the household charge issue, where people collectively demand more from those who have been running this country for decades.

Fook the rule book. On this issue it is time to make a stand and demand reform at local and national governmental level.

[C. Flower]

This household charge campaign is different. This is a chance for people to stand up for themselves and make their voices heard. We need to see a campaign build around the household charge issue, where people collectively demand more from those who have been running this country for decades.

Fook the rule book. On this issue it is time to make a stand and demand reform at local and national governmental level.

Why not ask Local Authority workers to consider refusing to handle this at all, not just not sending warning letters ?

Given staff number cuts, how can they reach of the extra work ?

[goatstoe]

Why not ask Local Authority workers to consider refusing to handle this at all, not just not sending warning letters ?

Given staff number cuts, how can they reach of the extra work ?

Good idea. The campaign should be intensified and escalated until such time that those running affairs in this country start playing ball and introduce reforms that provide better value for peoples money.

This of course sounds like an anarchists charter, however you're not going to get a revolution in this country in this day and age. What we could achieve however is a successful concerted campaign, where people demand change and reform, in return for the government looking for more money from them.

[Baron von Biffo]

This household charge campaign is different. This is a chance for people to stand up for themselves and make their voices heard. We need to see a campaign build around the household charge issue, where people collectively demand more from those who have been running this country for decades.

Fook the rule book. On this issue it is time to make a stand and demand reform at local and national governmental level.

Why not ask Local Authority workers to consider refusing to handle this at all, not just not sending warning letters ?

Given staff number cuts, how can they reach of the extra work ?

Allowing PS workers to pick and choose on the basis of their political beliefs, what duties they'll perform would undermine our democracy.

[Baron von Biffo]

Good idea. The campaign should be intensified and escalated until such time that those running affairs in this country start playing ball and introduce reforms that provide better value for peoples money.

This of course sounds like an anarchists charter, however you're not going to get a revolution in this country in this day and age. What we could achieve however is a successful concerted campaign, where people demand change and reform, in return for the government looking for more money from them.

In a democracy, the ballot box is the place to bring about change.

[goatstoe]

In a democracy, the ballot box is the place to bring about change.

At times there is an exception to the rule. Of course there's always a few cute hoors who will take the opportunity not to pay tax if they can get away with it. However many of the people who are witholding this household charge would normally vote for one of the 3 larger established parties. They would be normally pro Europe, or at least would be of the view that the Euro federalist project is so far down the road that to turn back would be way too messy and impracticable.

I believe they are entitled to demand reform in return for the government looking for more money from them to provide services that used to be provided for from the existing taxtake. Many of them have voted for parties who are now in government btw, who did promise reforms, who promised a new way of administering politics in this country, a covenant with the people wasn't that how he put it?

Now the government are saying give us more money without implementing the reforms to eradicate waste in the system first. It's time to get things done the right way around. The least people can expect if they are being asked to dig deeper into their pockets, is that the powers that be get the finger out and implement reforms first.

[Baron von Biffo]

At times there is an exception to the rule.

Who determines what those times are and by what authority do they do so?

Of course there's always a few cute hoors who will take the opportunity not to pay tax if they can get away with it. However many of the people who are witholding this household charge would normally vote for one of the 3 larger established parties. They would be normally pro Europe, or at least would be of the view that the Euro federalist project is so far down the road that to turn back would be way too messy and impracticable.

I believe they are entitled to demand reform in return for the government looking for more money from them to provide services that used to be provided for from the existing taxtake. Many of them have voted for parties who are now in government btw, who did promise reforms, who promised a new way of administering politics in this country, a covenant with the people wasn't that how he put it?

Now the government are saying give us more money without implementing the reforms to eradicate waste in the system first. It's time to get things done the right way around. The least people can expect if they are being asked to dig deeper into their pockets, is that the powers that be get the finger out and implement reforms first.

Of course we are entitled to demand political change but that's a world away from having PS workers acting in a politically partisan fashion in the discharge of their duties.

[goatstoe]

Who determines what those times are and by what authority do they do so?

If a movement has mass appeal then that determines the time. By the same token, if a movement has mass appeal then that can provide the authority. The authority is vested in the people.

I would say that the majority of voters would be in favour of witholding the household charge until such time that reforms to eradicate waste are introduced. I would come to this conclusion, because nearly half of house owners currently are witholding the charge, add that to people who rent their homes and I'd say that translates to a majority.

This particular campaign against the household charge has gained widespread support, including from lots of people who don't vote for the parties of the politicians who are leading the campaign. The recent Euro Referendum result is a case in point, many people who voted YES in that are the same people witholding the household charge.

People want reform and it appears they're not going to get those reforms. This household charge issue provides an opportunity to build a campaign where people can unite around a single issue; to extricate reforms from the powers that be in return for their money.

It has happened before btw where mass protest forces the governments hand, remember things like the previous government backtracking on medical card proposals for example. This is different because it's about a new tax, but the principle is the same. The government will get their money when they bend to the will of the people. Reform first, then they get paid.

Of course we are entitled to demand political change but that's a world away from having PS workers acting in a politically partisan fashion in the discharge of their duties.

It should be a single issue campaign of civil disobedience in order to extract a particular result.

[Baron von Biffo]

If a movement has mass appeal then that determines the time. By the same token, if a movement has mass appeal then that can provide the authority. The authority is vested in the people.

I would say that the majority of voters would be in favour of witholding the household charge until such time that reforms to eradicate waste are introduced. I would come to this conclusion, because nearly half of house owners currently are witholding the charge, add that to people who rent their homes and I'd say that translates to a majority.

This particular campaign against the household charge has gained widespread support, including from lots of people who don't vote for the parties of the politicians who are leading the campaign. The recent Euro Referendum result is a case in point, many people who voted YES in that are the same people witholding the household charge.

People want reform and it appears they're not going to get those reforms. This household charge issue provides an opportunity to build a campaign where people can unite around a single issue; to extricate reforms from the powers that be in return for their money.

It has happened before btw where mass protest forces the governments hand, remember things like the previous government backtracking on medical card proposals for example. This is different because it's about a new tax, but the principle is the same. The government will get their money when they bend to the will of the people. Reform first, then they get paid.

The authority is vested in the people and we delegate that authority to the Oireachtas to make our laws. If those who oppose the HC want to act with the authority of the people they can seek a mandate at the next GE to repeal and refund the HC.

We've had a by-election since the HC was introduced and the main candidate opposing it, Ruth Coppinger, was beaten into 3rd place behind the Lab candidate and the FF candidate both of whom supported it. That's poor evidence of a mandate.

It should be a single issue campaign of civil disobedience in order to extract a particular result.

That's something that people can campaign for if they wish but it's very different from encouraging PS workers to allow their political beliefs to influence their discharge of their duty.

[goatstoe]

The authority is vested in the people and we delegate that authority to the Oireachtas to make our laws. If those who oppose the HC want to act with the authority of the people they can seek a mandate at the next GE to repeal and refund the HC.

We've had a by-election since the HC was introduced and the main candidate opposing it, Ruth Coppinger, was beaten into 3rd place behind the Lab candidate and the FF candidate both of whom supported it. That's poor evidence of a mandate.

Many of the people who are witholding the household charge do not vote for politicians and parties who are leading a campaign against the charge. This is an issue that transcends party political politics. If the movement is strong enough, reforms can be achieved by virtue of the sheer will of the people.

This is a one-off single issue where mass resistance can be orchestrated around a single demand; reform to eradicate waste in public spending.

That's something that people can campaign for if they wish but it's very different from encouraging PS workers to allow their political beliefs to influence their discharge of their duty.

It can be a protest movement which gels around a single determinable goal and when that goal is achieved the protest can end with it.

It's not anti democratic. It's about organising the people to exercise their democratic will, to win a defined demand in return for compliance with a new charge for public services that used to be provided by the existing tax take.

[20 yards of linen=1 coat]

The authority is vested in the people and we delegate that authority to the Oireachtas to make our laws. If those who oppose the HC want to act with the authority of the people they can seek a mandate at the next GE to repeal and refund the HC.

We've had a by-election since the HC was introduced and the main candidate opposing it, Ruth Coppinger, was beaten into 3rd place behind the Lab candidate and the FF candidate both of whom supported it. That's poor evidence of a mandate.



That's something that people can campaign for if they wish but it's very different from encouraging PS workers to allow their political beliefs to influence their discharge of their duty.

The state in its modern form exists at least to a large degree (and more and more) in order to protect and facilitate the easy flow of capital.

If one of the "political beliefs" you mention is a recognition that the interests of capital and the state, and so the electoral system which provides it with its veneer of legitimacy, diverge very significantly with the interests of the people who live under it, then a different kind of legitimacy emerges, which really could be based on peoples interests.

That's the kind of authority goatstoe is talking about I think

If a movement has mass appeal then that determines the time. By the same token, if a movement has mass appeal then that can provide the authority. The authority is vested in the people.

Any public sector worker who would risk themselves to interfere with the process by which any remaining wealth in the hands of "ordinary people" is transferred to those who control finance capital is one to be admired and supported IMO.

On the other hand I doubt very much that there could be any kind of effective action taken by individual workers or even the public sector unions alone which could do more than delay the imposition of taxes and cuts without widespread active support from other communities. They will just get shafted by their bosses and/or replaced.

While I agree that the campaign against the household charge should stay with its single issue so as to have clearly defined parameters for victory and a decent chance at it, I really hope to see the connections formed in the process get stronger and eventually become capable of mounting sustained and more diverse pressure against austerity. If that happened then maybe it would be possible for individual workers or unions to exert influence by meddling with the bureaucracy.

[goatstoe]

Any public sector worker who would risk themselves to interfere with the process by which any remaining wealth in the hands of "ordinary people" is transferred to those who control finance capital is one to be admired and supported IMO.
On the other hand I doubt very much that there could be any kind of effective action taken by individual workers or even the public sector unions alone which could do more than delay the imposition of taxes and cuts without widespread active support from other communities. They will just get shafted by their bosses and/or replaced.

While I agree that the campaign against the household charge should stay with its single issue so as to have clearly defined parameters for victory and a decent chance at it, I really hope to see the connections formed in the process get stronger and eventually become capable of mounting sustained and more diverse pressure against austerity. If that happened then maybe it would be possible for individual workers or unions to exert influence by meddling with the bureaucracy.

People need to secure a victory in order to build confidence. Define the goal clearly, and force the government to respond to it by sheer weight of numbers. Reform of local and national government regarding waste of public money should be implemented anyway btw. But with the government failing in their task, the people can use the household charge issue as a tool to make them get the finger out.