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Thread: Should Dublin City Centre Be Car Free? - New Plan for a Pedestrian City

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    Default Should Dublin City Centre Be Car Free? - New Plan for a Pedestrian City

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...08.html?via=mr

    DUBLIN CITY centre will be predominantly for pedestrians, cyclists and those using public transport, with through-traffic discouraged, according to a new strategy developed by city planners.

    Titled Your City, Your Space , the draft strategy notes that more than 500,000 people access the city centre daily – 235,000 workers, 45,000 students, 120,000 shoppers or other visitors and 116,000 inner city residents.

    Notwithstanding the recession, it states that projections for 2020 suggest figures could increase to 350,000 workers, 70,000 students and 180,000 residents. This would “put pressure on the public realm”, requiring reallocation of road space.
    “While economic needs require private car and service vehicle access . . . the predominant movement pattern in the city centre will be on foot – which means it is vital that the public realm is easily accessible, pleasant and safe.”

    The draft strategy, and a draft strategy for outdoor advertising in Dublin (watch out for that one - will Tierney sell the city for a few euros extra revenue?) are here

    http://www.dublincity.ie/planning/Pages/Planning.aspx

    You are invited make submissions/observations to Dublin City Council to 4.30pm on 25th January 2012.

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    Default Re: Should Dublin City Centre Be Car Free? - New Plan for a Pedestrian City

    Wasn't there a plan to take College Green from Bank of Ireland and turn it into a square?
    "Fascinating, watching the world act as though it still had a financial system. Using the toilet, when the pipes are gone." - some guy on twitter

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    Default Re: Should Dublin City Centre Be Car Free? - New Plan for a Pedestrian City

    Quote Originally Posted by unspecific715 View Post
    Wasn't there a plan to take College Green from Bank of Ireland and turn it into a square?
    College Green is part of the strategy.

    It's worth a look at the document - page 44-45 here summarises it in writing and in a map.

    http://www.dublincity.ie/Planning/Do...291111_web.pdf

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    Default Re: Should Dublin City Centre Be Car Free? - New Plan for a Pedestrian City

    The advertising draft strategy has a daft suggestion for a

    "Zone 5: Zone of significant urban
    development where advertising could
    form an integral part of newly created
    streetscapes."

    I have objected to what seems to be a new kind of proposed streetscape which will be partly dictated by advertisers.

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    Default Re: Should Dublin City Centre Be Car Free? - New Plan for a Pedestrian City

    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbouvet View Post
    The advertising draft strategy has a daft suggestion for a

    "Zone 5: Zone of significant urban
    development where advertising could
    form an integral part of newly created
    streetscapes."

    I have objected to what seems to be a new kind of proposed streetscape which will be partly dictated by advertisers.
    Well spotted. Didn't DCC cut a deal on the bike scheme that provided much more free advertising than any other city government agreed to, globally?

    They definitely need watching.

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    Default Re: Should Dublin City Centre Be Car Free? - New Plan for a Pedestrian City

    "DUBLIN CITY centre will be predominantly for pedestrians, cyclists and those using public transport, with through-traffic discouraged, according to a new strategy developed by city planners.

    Titled Your City, Your Space , the draft strategy notes that more than 500,000 people access the city centre daily – 235,000 workers, 45,000 students, 120,000 shoppers or other visitors and 116,000 inner city residents.

    Notwithstanding the recession, it states that projections for 2020 suggest figures could increase to 350,000 workers, 70,000 students and 180,000 residents. This would “put pressure on the public realm”, requiring reallocation of road space."


    It's been my experience over 40 years.... that those who formulate policies on public transport never use it. I guess that's why one of the biggest car parks in Dublin ... is under the Civic Offices.
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

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    Default Re: Should Dublin City Centre Be Car Free? - New Plan for a Pedestrian City

    One way to reduce private cars in cities is to use congestion charges. Other cities use them but there's a flaw in the way they're implemented.

    What typically happens is that cameras linked to numberplate recognition systems are positioned on all streets leading into the designated area. Cars entering the city are logged as the enter and bills are issued.

    This way of handling it is more to do with revenue generation than reducing congestion because it hammers people coming from areas that don't have heavily subsidised public transport so they often have little choice but to drive.

    A better way of approaching the problem is to recognise that car ownership for city dwellers is largely a matter of personal choice. It doesn't make sense for us to pump millions into providing them with public transport if they frustrate its operation by clogging the streets with their cars.

    If there were many cameras around the city logging numbers and billing drivers who didn't leave the city for a specified period, say 8 hours or so per day, then there would be a genuine incentive to use the public transport.

    Chances of our Dublin dominated cabinet adopting this sensible proposal - Zero.
    Last edited by Baron von Biffo; 04-01-2012 at 07:25 PM. Reason: Typo.

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    Default Re: Should Dublin City Centre Be Car Free? - New Plan for a Pedestrian City

    Much more likely to be a largely business free city centre the way things are going.
    BVB, that is a very sensible proposal you made there.
    And as such will get nowhere as you so rightly point out.

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    Default Re: Should Dublin City Centre Be Car Free? - New Plan for a Pedestrian City

    Quote Originally Posted by riposte View Post
    "DUBLIN CITY centre will be predominantly for pedestrians, cyclists and those using public transport, with through-traffic discouraged, according to a new strategy developed by city planners.

    Titled Your City, Your Space , the draft strategy notes that more than 500,000 people access the city centre daily – 235,000 workers, 45,000 students, 120,000 shoppers or other visitors and 116,000 inner city residents.

    Notwithstanding the recession, it states that projections for 2020 suggest figures could increase to 350,000 workers, 70,000 students and 180,000 residents. This would “put pressure on the public realm”, requiring reallocation of road space."


    It's been my experience over 40 years.... that those who formulate policies on public transport never use it. I guess that's why one of the biggest car parks in Dublin ... is under the Civic Offices.
    Convert that car park to a skating rink

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    Default Re: Should Dublin City Centre Be Car Free? - New Plan for a Pedestrian City

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Convert that car park to a skating rink
    A boxing ring would be more appropriate
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

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    Default Re: Should Dublin City Centre Be Car Free? - New Plan for a Pedestrian City

    I find it hard to reconcile the public statements about reducing traffic and what is actually in that draft strategy. It is all about visual alterations, nothing about addressing the more fundamental issues of traffic levels and the balance between pedestrians, cyclists and motorised traffic. I can't see what the point is about having a strategy for the quays that doesn't talk about taking traffic off the quays.

    I appreciate its a draft strategy, but as has been the case for decades, there is a disconnect between the 'design' part of the Council and the engineering aspects. The engineers are still obsessed with improving traffic flows for cars while ignoring the needs of pedestrians and cyclists. The fact that there is not one single safe route to cycle east to west across the city says everything you need to know about city priorities. Or as a simple test, try to cycle from the Smithfield area of the city to the Leeson Street area without either riding on lethally dangerous sections of road, or (as virtually all cyclists quite rationally do), break the law and take logical short-cuts.

    One of the great missed opportunities of the celtic tiger was the failure of the City Council to reverse the damage of historic road schemes. All over the city there are valuable sites used for left turn-slipways (for example, at Lower Bridge Street going over Ushers Quay, along Cuffe Street and Lower Kevin Street, lower Church Street etc). The money raised could have been used to greatly improve the layout of existing streets and carry out long overdue improvements.

    College Green is potentially one of the finest public spaces in Europe - it is both beautiful and (unlike most European Squares), at a human scale. It also merges beautifully with Westmoreland Street and d'Olier Street. Both these roads are wide enough to hold huge markets of the type that is common and hugely popular in northern European cities. But its primarily a traffic corridor now. To reclaim it for pedestrians and cyclists would mean standing up to Dublin Bus and the taxi lobby, - I assume this is the reason for the vagueness of proposals in the draft strategy. Of course, it would also help if the government stood up to Bank of Ireland and demanded the bank there as compensation for the public bailing them out, but I wouldn't hold your breath on that.

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    Default Maidir Le: Re: Should Dublin City Centre Be Car Free? - New Plan for a Pedestrian City

    Quote Originally Posted by Yojimbo View Post
    I find it hard to reconcile the public statements about reducing traffic and what is actually in that draft strategy. It is all about visual alterations, nothing about addressing the more fundamental issues of traffic levels and the balance between pedestrians, cyclists and motorised traffic. I can't see what the point is about having a strategy for the quays that doesn't talk about taking traffic off the quays.

    I appreciate its a draft strategy, but as has been the case for decades, there is a disconnect between the 'design' part of the Council and the engineering aspects. The engineers are still obsessed with improving traffic flows for cars while ignoring the needs of pedestrians and cyclists. The fact that there is not one single safe route to cycle east to west across the city says everything you need to know about city priorities. Or as a simple test, try to cycle from the Smithfield area of the city to the Leeson Street area without either riding on lethally dangerous sections of road, or (as virtually all cyclists quite rationally do), break the law and take logical short-cuts.

    One of the great missed opportunities of the celtic tiger was the failure of the City Council to reverse the damage of historic road schemes. All over the city there are valuable sites used for left turn-slipways (for example, at Lower Bridge Street going over Ushers Quay, along Cuffe Street and Lower Kevin Street, lower Church Street etc). The money raised could have been used to greatly improve the layout of existing streets and carry out long overdue improvements.

    College Green is potentially one of the finest public spaces in Europe - it is both beautiful and (unlike most European Squares), at a human scale. It also merges beautifully with Westmoreland Street and d'Olier Street. Both these roads are wide enough to hold huge markets of the type that is common and hugely popular in northern European cities. But its primarily a traffic corridor now. To reclaim it for pedestrians and cyclists would mean standing up to Dublin Bus and the taxi lobby, - I assume this is the reason for the vagueness of proposals in the draft strategy. Of course, it would also help if the government stood up to Bank of Ireland and demanded the bank there as compensation for the public bailing them out, but I wouldn't hold your breath on that.
    Atlantic Cities has spotted that there is a privatisation agenda in the strategy - and of course a plan for increasing on street advertising to raise revenue.

    http://www.theatlanticcities.com/com...wn-dublin/896/

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    Default Re: Should Dublin City Centre Be Car Free? - New Plan for a Pedestrian City

    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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