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Thread: Religion - road to destruction?

  1. #46
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    Default Re: Religion - road to destruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theresa View Post
    losing battle eh
    I don't think so.
    Americans may talk a lot about religion, but religious marriage is now a minority sport in the US.

    Funny that the press insist on the nonsense of calling the Higgs Boson the "God particle" - a last desperate throw. If Cern does its job,and our level of understanding of the physical world takes another leap, there will be no more pretense that there is an invisible bearded man behind it all somewhere.

    The development of science, along with the exposure of the horrible abuses of power by the Church, is enlightening.

  2. #47
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    Default Re: Religion - road to destruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I don't think so.
    I don't think so either.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    The development of science, along with the exposure of the horrible abuses of power by the Church, is enlightening.
    Science is the best heuristic mankind has ever devised- as an instrument of exploitation- and I would be a cheerleader, but like all instruments, it needs to be handled with care.
    A dangerous aspect to the Enlightenment is the idea of progress, as it instills a hubristic notion (ironically inherited from the old testament as a source of authority, which it sought to leave behind) ; domination over the Earth.
    It is this aspect of Humanism which I distrust; the element of scientism, the view a la Sam Harris, that all knowledge should be gained though science alone. Such knowledge gives rise to technological progress, which we tend to incorporate into notions of social progress. This is the Myth of Progess.

    Science debunks supernatural claims of explanation such that it offers empirical proof over arbitary claims- based on any supposed supernatural realm, and can anchor us intellectually to the physical world without recourse to any such realm. But the illusion of progress that scientism promotes leaves religion with a strong hand; because science does not make claims about meaningfulness, it leaves out an important aspect of what it means to be human.
    The Arts and Humanities explores this, but offers no real succour- the way religion can, because religion can provide the comfort we humans often need without proof of its veracity.
    Personally, I think the power of religious texts lie not just in their powerful messages, but their use of strong narrative. Hence, storytelling, particularly film, uses narrative form that can provide meaningfulness, such that the joys of love, and the horrors of war, can be shown not to have simplistic explanations such as the Will of God, but ae based on human actions, warts and all.


    A quick net search can uncover some nice gems concerning the myth of progress:

    Before the altar of progress, attended by its dutiful acolytes of science and technology, modern industrial society has presented an increasing abundance of sacrifices from the natural world, imitating on a much grander and more devastating scale the religious rites of earlier empires built upon similar conceits about the domination of nature. Now, it seems, we are prepared to offer up even the very biosphere itself.
    …. almost all that Progress was supposed to achieve has failed to come about, despite the immense amount of money and technology devoted to its cause. Virtually all of the dreams that have adorned it over the years, particularly in its most robust stages in the late 19th century and in the past twenty years of computerdom, have dissipated as utopian fancies -- those that have not, like nuclear power, chemical agriculture, manifest destiny, and the welfare state, turned into nightmares. Progress has not, even in this most progressive nation, eliminated poverty (numbers of poor have increased and real income has declined for 25 years), or drudgery (hours of employment have increased, as has work within the home, for both sexes), or ignorance (literacy rates have declined for fifty years, test scores have declined), or disease (hospitalization, illness, and death rates have all increased since 1980).

    http://www.primitivism.com/facets-myth.htm
    Politics shapes history, and history shapes politics.

  3. #48
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    Default Re: Religion - road to destruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I don't think so.
    Americans may talk a lot about religion, but religious marriage is now a minority sport in the US.

    Funny that the press insist on the nonsense of calling the Higgs Boson the "God particle" - a last desperate throw. If Cern does its job,and our level of understanding of the physical world takes another leap, there will be no more pretense that there is an invisible bearded man behind it all somewhere.

    The development of science, along with the exposure of the horrible abuses of power by the Church, is enlightening.
    The Higgs Boson will just be further proof that the sky fairy they believe in is all makey uppey. The God Particle is being given to try and denote some sort of religious motive for its finding, something akin to being a present from God. Would love to see someone now prove blow the bible is a waste..
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  4. #49
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    Default Re: Religion - road to destruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    The Higgs Boson will just be further proof that the sky fairy they believe in is all makey uppey. The God Particle is being given to try and denote some sort of religious motive for its finding, something akin to being a present from God. Would love to see someone now prove blow the bible is a waste..
    I hate to point this out, but evidence for the Higgs Boson is either contradictory or lacking, depending on which set of experiments you read about.

    Various astrophysics theories seem to require almost theological levels of faith and none seem to explain everything seen experimentally.

    Some physicists seem to think that supposing consciousness to be at the root of physical process can resolve a lot of current scientific impasses

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amit_Goswami

    I'm only a biologist, so don't ask me, but......methinks God may be safe from science for quite some time...and vice versa perhaps

  5. #50
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    Default Re: Religion - road to destruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    I hate to point this out, but evidence for the Higgs Boson is either contradictory or lacking, depending on which set of experiments you read about.

    Various astrophysics theories seem to require almost theological levels of faith and none seem to explain everything seen experimentally.

    Some physicists seem to think that supposing consciousness to be at the root of physical process can resolve a lot of current scientific impasses

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amit_Goswami

    I'm only a biologist, so don't ask me, but......methinks God may be safe from science for quite some time...and vice versa perhaps
    I considered opening a thread on this very subject separate from religion. It's fascinating once you look into it i.e. the work of Amit Goswami, Fritjof Capra, David Bohm, Evan Harris Walker, Fred Alan Wolf and many more.

    At the end of the day, our knowledge although fantastic is still incomplete, and what we tend to do is dismiss or ignore anything that cannot be explained by science (which in my eyes gives away too much authority) this could simply be a language problem, the words "Spirituality" and "god" tend to be durty words to the majority of intellects, as they come with preconditioned notions of what those words represent. Spirituality (the term) to me holds the key to an alternative study into reality, it is not a belief system. There is a whole lot more to us, this universe and the interconnectedness of all...

  6. #51
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    Default Re: Religion - road to destruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I don't think so.

    The development of science, along with the exposure of the horrible abuses of power by the Church, is enlightening.
    That is what I had hoped but living in a small village and seeing the role the rc church plays is very disheartening.

    There is a directive from the pope that initiatives to address climate change should be supported yet I don't know of any near me - the opposite in fact. When I asked the local parish office I was ignored. I explained I was trying to network environmental initiatives in my role as voluntary coordinator. They didn't even reply. Any steps I've taken with the parish priest has been futile. One priest indicated that it is gods will??????? Brick wall! They still stand aloof.
    Offer solutions
    my blog - Clearing Clutter – the ramblings of an environmental activist http://theresaleaf.wordpress.com/

  7. #52
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    Default Re: Religion - road to destruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theresa View Post
    That is what I had hoped but living in a small village and seeing the role the rc church plays is very disheartening.

    There is a directive from the pope that initiatives to address climate change should be supported yet I don't know of any near me - the opposite in fact. When I asked the local parish office I was ignored. I explained I was trying to network environmental initiatives in my role as voluntary coordinator. They didn't even reply. Any steps I've taken with the parish priest has been futile. One priest indicated that it is gods will??????? Brick wall! They still stand aloof.
    My brother is researching family history and the local parish priest, being the ignorant prick that he is wont let anyone in to look at the parish records. My brother sent him a registered letter after sending one before by normal snail mail. No response to either so he is going to get on to the bishop and see if there is anything that can be done. I flatly refuse to call anyone by their title (Dr,Father etc), creates an elite society. See you got me started now ...
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

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