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Thread: Has the Arab Spring Failed?

  1. #1
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    Default Has the Arab Spring Failed?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lda9EiolJE4"]Has the Arab Spring Failed? Introducing the Arab Spring Manifesto - YouTube[/ame]


    A thoughtful modern Islamic view of the state of the Arab spring.

    There are some things I agree with - that the "spring" is a quantum leap in the consciousness and experience of young people of the region, and that, if this generation does not find an economic, as well as political solution, the "forces of counterrevolution" will step in.

    His solution, liberal or moderate islamicism, appears from the Egyptian and Tunisian elections to be what the majority of people want at present.

    I'm putting this youtube up, as an insight into the discussions that are going on across the Arab world.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 22-12-2011 at 07:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Has the Arab Spring Failed?

    Not at all, it provided a great opportunity for Wall Street to get rid of Gaddafi. Egypt is in a tight stranglehold of a US-trained officers corps.

    All in all it played out exceedingly well.

    Of course, people in less lucrative places who thought they could play 'Arab Spring' were not so fortunate.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

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    Default Re: Has the Arab Spring Failed?

    Personally, I think they should have the right to elect whoever they like, and if that means the Muslim Brotherhood, I'm afraid, vox populi, vox Dei, etc. America and the rest of us will have to live with the fact that not everyone wants our way of life (and frankly, looking at our banks and sovereigns, the Holy Prophet of Islam perhaps should have been listened to with respect to usury. Along with the medieval Christian church... when did that rule get quietly shelved?).

    The great thing about democracy is that then, they'll have only themselves to blame if the Islamists don't manage to create heaven on earth for them all. No need to blame the West at all.

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    Default Re: Has the Arab Spring Failed?

    It was doomed from Day 1.
    Those people never, ever, had even the slightest concept of democracy or equality and the strong men will continue to dominate them, cynically using religion to keep the masses in their beaten down state.

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    Default Re: Has the Arab Spring Failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    Not at all, it provided a great opportunity for Wall Street to get rid of Gaddafi. Egypt is in a tight stranglehold of a US-trained officers corps.

    All in all it played out exceedingly well.

    Of course, people in less lucrative places who thought they could play 'Arab Spring' were not so fortunate.
    The geni can't be put back into the bottle so easily. Yes, the attack on Libya was a blow to the development of the area, and there are big dangers of counter revolution and subversion of gains made, but there are now thousands of people politically organised, experienced and active. People have had the experience of pushing leaders out and taking part in free elections, in Tunisia and Egypt.

    It's overwhelmingly a good thing and has inspired people all over the world to become more active in determining their own future.

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    Default Re: Has the Arab Spring Failed?

    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

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    Default Re: Has the Arab Spring Failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    The geni can't be put back into the bottle so easily. ...but there are now thousands of people politically organised, experienced and active. People have had the experience of pushing leaders out and taking part in free elections, in Tunisia and Egypt.

    It's overwhelmingly a good thing and has inspired people all over the world to become more active in determining their own future.
    I hope you're right......we live in hope! The irony is that they seem to be trying to reform just as the West goes the wrong way entirely....

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    Default Re: Has the Arab Spring Failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    It was doomed from Day 1.
    Those people never, ever, had even the slightest concept of democracy or equality and the strong men will continue to dominate them, cynically using religion to keep the masses in their beaten down state.
    Feudal monarchy looked unbeatable in its day. These "strong men" states are failing, otherwise Arab spring wouldn't have happened.

  9. #9
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Has the Arab Spring Failed?

    I agree. It's very early days.

    Cactus - the start of that clip describing the how society itself has undergone a radical revolution is almost verbatim how Palestinian Academic Sari Nussebeih described ithe huge societal changes that were being fostered by the demand for political change in the Occupied Territories.
    Last edited by Kev Bar; 22-12-2011 at 10:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Has the Arab Spring Failed?

    I think that Trotsky fellow might be pleased with his theory of permanent revolution anyway. The strong Trot presence in Egypt is an engine of the ongoing protests, as well as the initial revolution.

    I think the energy and experience of a successful mass uprising will maintain a strong rebel attitude for a few years yet, so its never too late.
    "Fascinating, watching the world act as though it still had a financial system. Using the toilet, when the pipes are gone." - some guy on twitter

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Has the Arab Spring Failed?

    From an observer's pov I think is one of the huge achievements already made by the Arab Spring.

    A less publicised but perhaps more pernicious and virulent form of racism than that faced by blacks has finally been put to the rest.

    This racism was the basic tenet that allowed facilitated the acceptance of obnoxious dictators...and fuelled the tolerance of a vast range of injustice.

    The Arabs were very much the niggahs of the 21st Century.

    And embeded in the West's view of the Middle East was the belief that Arabs were different. They didn't want democracy. Were not suited to it. Were not up to it.

    I recall reacting with both surprise and respect when David Cameron of all people acknowledged that this attitude has prevailed for too long.

    The death of this nasty racist dehumanising notion is a significant victory.




    The Jasmine Revolution did the world a favor by making a nonsense of three ridiculous ideas regularly cited by western experts for decades – that Arabs don’t really want democracy, that the Arabs will never move against their strongmen, and that democracy in the Arab would invariably brings the “devil you don’t know” to power. Additionally, by overthrowing a dictatorship with people power rather than violence, Tunisians shamed the violent men who had claimed to speak for the Arabs for decades, from Hamas and Hezbollah, as well as those who thrived on all of those fallacies (Israel’s far right, Arab military dictators, al Qaida). The emergence of a true Arab civil society, a democratically elected government and rational Islamist movement that saw the importance of embracing tolerance created a small earthquake. The earthquake’s reverberations continue with more mixed results, but for Tunisia, this is a win-win story.

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    Default Re: Has the Arab Spring Failed?

    A great generation of young revolutionaries in Egypt.

    http://moesolitary.wordpress.com/

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    Default Re: Has the Arab Spring Failed?

    How can it have failed when it's still ongoing?

    People in Arab countries have decided they are not willing to be bullied and this is happening as we speak in Syria, where in the face of terrible oppression, people are continuing to speak out.
    This can only be a good thing.

    The Arab Spring also greatly influenced the Occupy movement.
    I suppose it must be with a wry smile, some of the Arab protesters view their ideas being borrowed and made popular in the west.
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  14. #14
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Has the Arab Spring Failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Griska View Post
    How can it have failed when it's still ongoing?

    People in Arab countries have decided they are not willing to be bullied and this is happening as we speak in Syria, where in the face of terrible oppression, people are continuing to speak out.
    This can only be a good thing.

    The Arab Spring also greatly influenced the Occupy movement.
    I suppose it must be with a wry smile, some of the Arab protesters view their ideas being borrowed and made popular in the west.

    Indeed.
    A timely wry smile.

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    Default Re: Has the Arab Spring Failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    Not at all, it provided a great opportunity for Wall Street to get rid of Gaddafi. Egypt is in a tight stranglehold of a US-trained officers corps.

    All in all it played out exceedingly well.

    Of course, people in less lucrative places who thought they could play 'Arab Spring' were not so fortunate.
    Doh! ...There you go TM ...picking my brains again ... and getting in ahead of me.
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

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