Public sector pay and the Croke Park Agreement

[PaddyJoe]

SixOne reporting that the government is to plough ahead with abolishing 80 allowances for serving PS workers.

Since core pay is protected by Croke Park it follows that any allowance that's cut must not, in the opinion of the government, be core pay. It follows from that that the staff who have their allowances cut will be able to cease providing the service for which the allowance was paid.

I got the impression from the Ingrid Miley report that there is a deadline of end March 2013 to deal with these allowances.
More of a distraction from the HSE stories than a real effort to deal with anything.

[Baron von Biffo]

ie the job they were already hired to do if we are to believe explanations from the Civil Service

Core pay is what pays for the job they're hired to do.

[Baron von Biffo]

I got the impression from the Ingrid Miley report that there is a deadline of end March 2013 to deal with these allowances.
More of a distraction from the HSE stories than a real effort to deal with anything.

Howlin made a serious political misjudgement when he raised expectations of a specific level of cuts without first establishing whether that figure was achievable. This might be an attempt to make the little man look big.

[Dr. FIVE]

Core pay is what pays for the job they're hired to do.

You know most of us here aren't into the bashing for the sake of it and I have no interest in seeing workers get slaughtered for this ***** but what we've seen is - presumably FF - governments had given pay rises in the guise of allowances for extra work. The Unions, as usual from what we've learned in the last few years, were presumably quite happy to go along with this slight of hand & pretend these weren't rises in core pay so a bit of honesty on their part might be a good start in clawing back the mountain of support they are going to need in the coming years. Their not inconsiderable resources are no where to be seen in counteracting the PR onslaught their members have been under for four years. One open goal after another is all I can see.

What do you make of new entrants getting short shift?

[Baron von Biffo]

You know most of us here aren't into the bashing for the sake of it and I have no interest in seeing workers get slaughtered for this ***** but what we've seen is - presumably FF - governments had given pay rises in the guise of allowances for extra work. The Unions, as usual from what we've learned in the last few years, were presumably quite happy to go along with this slight of hand & pretend these weren't rises in core pay so a bit of honesty on their part might be a good start in clawing back the mountain of support they are going to need in the coming years.

In the past there were some cases of pay rises being awarded through the device of 'allowances' so as to facilitate the award of a legitimate claim for some grades without getting mired in the tangle of 'relativities' that used to apply in determining PS pay.

It was a reasonable way to make a weak system work but it depended on all sides behaving honourably. It didn't anticipate scum like Lenihan and his toxic legacy.

Their not inconsiderable resources are no where to be seen in counteracting the PR onslaught their members have been under for four years. One open goal after another is all I can see.

Sadly for the workers, the greatest want of resources in the trade union movement at the moment is good leaders.

What do you make of new entrants getting short shift?

It shouldn't be happening for several reasons but when they allowed themselves to be bullied into the Croke Park straight-jacket, the unions gave away their power to fight things like that.

[PaddyJoe]

Aha. So Howlin is appearing before the Public Accounts Committee tomorrow. The timing of the 80 allowances announcement now makes more sense.

[Baron von Biffo]

You know most of us here aren't into the bashing for the sake of it and I have no interest in seeing workers get slaughtered for this ***** but what we've seen is - presumably FF - governments had given pay rises in the guise of allowances for extra work. The Unions, as usual from what we've learned in the last few years, were presumably quite happy to go along with this slight of hand & pretend these weren't rises in core pay so a bit of honesty on their part might be a good start in clawing back the mountain of support they are going to need in the coming years. Their not inconsiderable resources are no where to be seen in counteracting the PR onslaught their members have been under for four years. One open goal after another is all I can see.

What do you make of new entrants getting short shift?

A text to The Late Debate from an advanced paramedic said he got an allowance on top of his basic for advanced duties and if the allowance is cut 'They can keep the advanced bag'.

[DCon]

A SIPTU rep is on Newstalk saying that Howlin's (relatively minor in teh grand scheme) alowance cuts announced for today will be seen as a violation of Croke park as SIPTU consider these to be core pay.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...e-3256441.html

SIPTU rep is saying that all announced cuts hit the lower paid workers while there have been no cuts to the allowances of higher paid staff (he referenced a EUR 46K allowance given to Hospital Consultants)

[Baron von Biffo]

A SIPTU rep is on Newstalk saying that Howlin's (relatively minor in teh grand scheme) alowance cuts announced for today will be seen as a violation of Croke park as SIPTU consider these to be core pay.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...e-3256441.html

SIPTU rep is saying that all announced cuts hit the lower paid workers while there have been no cuts to the allowances of higher paid staff (he referenced a EUR 46K allowance given to Hospital Consultants)

Any allowance cut will be relatively minor when measured against the national budget. Few of them will be so trivial when measured against the family budget of someone who's already had 14% pay cuts on top of the increases in taxes and charges.

[Baron von Biffo]

FGs Eoghan Murphy thinks that savings associated with reducing staff numbers should be ignored when measuring what Croke Park delivers.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...td-210626.html

Quite why we should do this he doesn't say.

[DCon]

FGs Eoghan Murphy thinks that savings associated with reducing staff numbers should be ignored when measuring what Croke Park delivers.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...td-210626.html

Quite why we should do this he doesn't say.

he forgot toilet paper, boling water for tea, tea-bags, milk, electricity..

He claimed the method included certain, non-salaried overheads that were incurred by employing someone, including desks, lamps, and computers.

[DCon]

Sindo think the Troika may have Croke Park in their sights

Concern is rising in the Government that the IMF/ECB/EU Troika will warn that "Croke Park is not working" when they conclude their eighth review of the bailout agreement, scheduled to begin next week.

These Government fears have not been eased by the intent of the Troika to focus on overspending in the Department of Health.

However senior political sources told the Sunday Independent that the Troika has become increasingly impatient with the scenario where instead "of meeting ministers, they are being fobbed off by Father Sean [Healy] Richard Boyd Barrett, Sinn Fein and various others."

One senior source claimed the Troika has been "spooked by Reilly. They're starting to believe they are being given the run-around.

The Sunday Independent has also learnt that within the Government "from the Taoiseach down there is more nervousness about this Troika visit than any other one".

One senior figure close to the heart of Government noted "the thing that's haunting them is that after they see the scenario in Health they will say that Croke Park isn't working.

"The projections are not good. You have to make a bigger adjustment. Social Welfare will have to be cut, tax will have to rise. It's a concern, a real concern".

Another source warned it was clear "the Troika are not as comfortable as they were that we can stay on track".

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...k-3258579.html

[RobertW]

Sindo think the Troika may have Croke Park in their sights

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...k-3258579.html

If you read between the lines then you might come to the conclusion that this headline is completely made up.

I think it's spoof

[DCon]

If you read between the lines then you might come to the conclusion that this headline is completely made up.

I think it's spoof

I think it is clear that there is an anti CPA faction in Fine Gael.

Also clear that this faction would love to use the Troika as cover for dismantling the whole thing

Maybe Reilly's procrastination is somewhat due to this, rather than his undoubted incompetence

[Baron von Biffo]

I think it is clear that there is an anti CPA faction in Fine Gael.

Also clear that this faction would love to use the Troika as cover for dismantling the whole thing

Maybe Reilly's procrastination is somewhat due to this, rather than his undoubted incompetence

Croke Park has failed but not in the way it was intended to fail. It was intended from day one to collapse by pushing unions so hard they'd have no option but to stand up for their members. That would have given a fig leaf of 'union intransigence' to ministers who wanted to slash and burn their way through the public sector.

What wasn't factored in was just how supine union leaders had become over the Partnership years. Croke Park exceeded the targets set for it without so much as a whisper of protest from the unions.

Those who are waiting for the public sector to be swept away to make way for private profits - The sort of people represented by FG and the Sindo - are growing increasingly impatient.