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Thread: Israel's future

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Israel's future

    What does the future of Israel hold? Its all tied in with the Americans , lets not beat around the bush here. If we want to make life better for the Palestinians we should appeal to the ordinary American o the street, the policy makers are probably not going to listen and have not so far. The apartheid suffered by the Palestinians seems to fall upon deaf ears to the Americans, then again it took them a while to enact civil rights for black Americans...
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  2. #17
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Israel's future

    We ignoring Obama on settlements and pissing off Clinton on the NGO funding law and more incidents like Sarkozy and the live mic plus the increasing impossibility of hiding the ugliness of theocracy in the clothes of a supposed modern snappy democracy - 1,2,3 everybody: "the only one in the middle east" - is bound to have a knock on effect.

  3. #18
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    Both Israel and the USA are defined by the 'exceptionalists' in both camps who currently hold sway are doing nothing but writing the doom of their own nations if they are allowed to persist.

    Call it the 'end-of-days' impulse in both nations and hidden in the psychology of those who feel that they have a manifest agreement with a god of their own invention and it just adds up to a quiet fanaticism which history shows usually brings early success and later destruction.
    Last edited by Captain Con O'Sullivan; 15-12-2011 at 12:28 PM.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

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    Default Re: Israel's future

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    What does the future of Israel hold? Its all tied in with the Americans , lets not beat around the bush here. If we want to make life better for the Palestinians we should appeal to the ordinary American o the street, the policy makers are probably not going to listen and have not so far. The apartheid suffered by the Palestinians seems to fall upon deaf ears to the Americans, then again it took them a while to enact civil rights for black Americans...
    The support for Israel in America runs at about 67 % which is way out of proportion to the Jewish population of America. You have your work cut out.

  5. #20
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    Fox News is very popular in the US thats true. Then again the Black Death was pretty ubiquitous in Europe in the Middle Ages but thankfully we got over it.

    One good thing I have noticed in watching comment sections under US articles in US media is the growing awareness of AIPAC and its poisoning of the Potomac- quite encouraging also to detect a wider awareness growing that all is not well in the Shining City on the Hill and I'm seeing plenty of comment about Israel and American politics that would indicate the tide may be turning.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsedmethodist View Post
    The support for Israel in America runs at about 67 % which is way out of proportion to the Jewish population of America. You have your work cut out.
    Its all in the mass psychology Im sure. If we made it appear to the supporters of Israel that one of the tenets of Judaism on which the Israeli state was founded was helping others and alms to the poor Im sure we could paint a better picture for them. So many of the supporters are so far removed from what is happening in the Middle East as all they see is the rubbish that they lap up and digest from Murdoch TV. Aim to show them that they can help the Palestinians and still be loyal to the Israeli state ..
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  7. #22
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Israel's future

    Seems that nasty new Israeli law banning boycotts must be loosely worded:

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...arabs-1.396686

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Israel's future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Bar View Post
    Seems that nasty new Israeli law banning boycotts must be loosely worded ...
    Some Irish people buy potatoes imported from Israel.

  9. #24

    Default Israel transforming itself into an Apartheid State

    Professor John Mearsheimer is a political scientist at the University of Chicago and the co-author (along with Stephen Walt ) of a best-selling book on America's Israel Lobby.

    In the below 2010 lecture he outlines a chilling insight into how the refusal to countenance a two-state solution and disengage from the occupied territories will eventually lead Israel into a "South-African-style struggle" ( Ehud Olmert's words ). Mearsheimer argues convincingly that the only alternative to a two-state solution is the creation of a so-called "Greater Israel". This could take 3 possible forms:

    1) A democratic bi-national state in which Jews and Arabs would have equal political rights but which involves the abandonment of the original Zionist plan of a Jewish State, since Greater Israel would introduce the demographic problem of Arabs eventually outnumbering Jews.

    2) Greater Israel could be preserved as a Jewish State by a return to 1948-style ethnic cleansing but the scale of Arab expulsion would have to be far greater because there are now about 5.5 million Arabs living between the Jordan & the Mediterranean ( ~700,000 were expelled from Mandatory Palestine in 1948 ).

    3) The 3rd option involves the creation of a South African-style Apartheid state, where Israel would continue to control the West Bank & Gaza but allow the Palestinians to exercise limited autonomy in fragmented & "economically crippled" cantons ( similar to the Black Homelands or Bantustans which were created in South Africa ).
    Mearsheimer believes this is the most likely of the 3 options and indeed argues that the incipient apartheid state already exists in the West Bank which has "separate laws, separate roads and separate housing for Israelis and Palestinians".

    Israelis and their American supporters invariably bristle at the
    comparison to white rule in South Africa, but that is their future if
    they create a Greater Israel while denying full political rights to an
    Arab population that will soon outnumber the Jewish population in the
    entirety of the land. *Indeed, two former Israeli prime ministers have
    made this very point. *Ehud Olmert, who was Netanyahu’s predecessor,
    said in late November 2007 that if “the two-state solution collapses,”
    Israel will “face a South-African-style struggle.” *He went so far as
    to argue that, “as soon as that happens, the state of Israel is
    finished.” *Former Prime Minister Ehud Barak, who is now Israel’s
    defense minister, said in early February of this year that, "As long
    as in this territory west of the Jordan River there is only one
    political entity called Israel it is going to be either non-Jewish, or
    non-democratic. *If this bloc of millions of Palestinians cannot vote,
    that will be an apartheid state."

    The Future of Palestine: Righteous Jews vs. the New Afrikaners

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Israel's future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Bar View Post
    Seems that nasty new Israeli law banning boycotts must be loosely worded:

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...arabs-1.396686
    Read the article, absolutely disgusting behaviour from a people whom themselves been mistreated in the past and now they themselves are intent on creating a two tiered system subjecting Arabs to economic hardship. They intend on issuing certificates to places that do not employ Arabs in order to appeal to what I imagine is the more right wing sections of Israeli society. Imagine if the American govt decided tommorrow to boycott Israeli goods and issues certificates to places that dont employ Jewish people, there would be uproar. Its now a case of the victim becoming the agressor and only furthermore creates a two tiered nation state with an oppressor and an oppressed.
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  11. #26
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Israel's future

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Read the article, absolutely disgusting behaviour from a people whom themselves been mistreated in the past and now they themselves are intent on creating a two tiered system subjecting Arabs to economic hardship. They intend on issuing certificates to places that do not employ Arabs in order to appeal to what I imagine is the more right wing sections of Israeli society. Imagine if the American govt decided tommorrow to boycott Israeli goods and issues certificates to places that dont employ Jewish people, there would be uproar. Its now a case of the victim becoming the agressor and only furthermore creates a two tiered nation state with an oppressor and an oppressed.

    It's yellow star of david like behaviour made more disgusting in view of the Knesset's anti-boycott law which criminalises calls to boycott produce from Israel and illegal Jewish settlements in the occupied territories.

    You couldn't make this **** up.

  12. #27
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Israel transforming itself into an Apartheid State

    Quote Originally Posted by flavirostris View Post
    Professor John Mearsheimer is a political scientist at the University of Chicago and the co-author (along with Stephen Walt ) of a best-selling book on America's Israel Lobby.

    In the below 2010 lecture he outlines a chilling insight into how the refusal to countenance a two-state solution and disengage from the occupied territories will eventually lead Israel into a "South-African-style struggle" ( Ehud Olmert's words ). Mearsheimer argues convincingly that the only alternative to a two-state solution is the creation of a so-called "Greater Israel". This could take 3 possible forms:

    1) A democratic bi-national state in which Jews and Arabs would have equal political rights but which involves the abandonment of the original Zionist plan of a Jewish State, since Greater Israel would introduce the demographic problem of Arabs eventually outnumbering Jews.

    2) Greater Israel could be preserved as a Jewish State by a return to 1948-style ethnic cleansing but the scale of Arab expulsion would have to be far greater because there are now about 5.5 million Arabs living between the Jordan & the Mediterranean ( ~700,000 were expelled from Mandatory Palestine in 1948 ).

    3) The 3rd option involves the creation of a South African-style Apartheid state, where Israel would continue to control the West Bank & Gaza but allow the Palestinians to exercise limited autonomy in fragmented & "economically crippled" cantons ( similar to the Black Homelands or Bantustans which were created in South Africa ).
    Mearsheimer believes this is the most likely of the 3 options and indeed argues that the incipient apartheid state already exists in the West Bank which has "separate laws, separate roads and separate housing for Israelis and Palestinians".




    The Future of Palestine: Righteous Jews vs. the New Afrikaners
    I cover the same area here:
    http://www.villagemagazine.ie/index....o-arab-spring/

    The recent spate of legislation in the Knesset shows us clearly that option 3 is the route being followed at the moment.

    There was also a piece the other day which I linked in a post above about in the jewish journal Forward about the country's descent into a theocracy.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Israel's future

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    What does the future of Israel hold? Its all tied in with the Americans , lets not beat around the bush here. If we want to make life better for the Palestinians we should appeal to the ordinary American o the street, the policy makers are probably not going to listen and have not so far. The apartheid suffered by the Palestinians seems to fall upon deaf ears to the Americans, then again it took them a while to enact civil rights for black Americans...
    Israel will collapse ......... when the American economy collapses. "The ordinary American on the street" has no business meddling in American foreign policy ....... that's the remit of AIPAC
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Israel's future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Bar View Post
    It's yellow star of david like behaviour made more disgusting in view of the Knesset's anti-boycott law which criminalises calls to boycott produce from Israel and illegal Jewish settlements in the occupied territories.You couldn't make this **** up.
    Is that people on Israeli territory?

    @Riposte, I dont want to see Israel collapse.I want it to evolve and become a more equal society
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Israel's future

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Is that people on Israeli territory?

    @Riposte, I dont want to see Israel collapse.I want it to evolve and become a more equal society

    I want a United Ireland and a BMW....... for Christmas ..... what are my chances ?. ...lol !!
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

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