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Thread: Israel's future

  1. #1
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    Default Israel's future

    There is an amazing article in Haaretz, the Israeli newspaper by its editon, a guy called Schocken (must be a Dub) in which he lays it on the line as regards his country's military expansion. If there are people like him in Israel, there is some hope for peace.

    http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-...cracy-1.397625

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Israel's future

    Quote Originally Posted by Binn Beal View Post
    There is an amazing article in Haaretz, the Israeli newspaper by its editor, a guy called Schocken (must be a Dub) in which he lays it on the line as regards his country's military expansion. If there are people like him in Israel, there is some hope for peace.
    It would be a mistake to think Amun Schocken or his newspaper reflects anything like the majority of Israeli opinion. Ha'aretz has a readership of only 5.8% of almost exclusively richer and privileged Ashkenazi Jews. This is the group who are largely responsible for the settlement of 80% of Palestinian land which was to become the state of Israel. While it considers itself to be a moderately liberal newspaper, a 2003 study in The Harvard International Journal of Press/Politics found that Ha'aretz reporting was more favorable to Israelis than Palestinians, and more likely to report stories from the Israeli side. (Matt Viser. Attempted objectivity: An analysis of the New York Times and Ha'aretz and their portrayals of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. The Harvard International Journal of Press/Politics. 2003, Vol. 8, No. 4, 114–120.)

    Schocken's belief that the ideology of Gush Emunim (the doctrine that all Palestinian land belongs to the Jews as a right) dominates Israeli policy is hardly news to outside observers (with the notable exception of the USA), so his mention of this in the cited article is definitely something the Israelis need to know but I doubt their ability to exercise such insight.

  3. #3
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Israel's future

    Excellent stuff.

    Gets to the core issues.


    Legalizing the illegal

    Because of its inherent illegality, at least in democratic terms, an apartheid regime cannot allow opposition and criticism. The Gush Emunim ideology is obliged to eliminate the latter, and to prevent every effort to block its activity, even if that activity is illegal and even criminal, meant to maintain apartheid. The illegal activity needs to be made legal, whether by amending laws or by changing their judicial interpretation - such things have occurred before, in other places and at other times.

    Against this background, we are now seeing the campaign of legislation against, and the unbridled slandering of the Supreme Court, against human rights organizations and against the press, as well as the so-called boycott law, which is aimed at preventing the possibility of dealing with Israeli apartheid in the way South African apartheid was dealt with. It is against this same background that legislation has been submitted that is directed against the Arab citizens in Israel, such as the Loyalty Law and the proposal for a "Basic Law of Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People." It is against this background that a campaign of incitement and intimidation is being waged against the necessary and justified critique being voiced by members of academia.



    A much more insightful - and longer piece - on what I was getting at here:

    http://www.villagemagazine.ie/index....o-arab-spring/

    @Holly.
    The general public is only starting to cop on to this reality
    Last edited by Kev Bar; 25-11-2011 at 05:11 PM.

  4. #4
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Israel's future


  5. #5
    People Korps Guest

    Default Re: Israel's future

    Israel's near future is Hanukkah after that it would be nice if ordinary Israeli's pushed for a peace rather than a war footing Peace/Shalom/Salam

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Israel's future

    There is uproar in Israel and New York I believe over a statement by the US Ambassador to Belgium (I think) where he has said that the conflation of anti-semitism with criticism of Israeli policies does not serve Israel's interests (my paraphrasing).

    This is hugely against Israeli and AIPAC Washington-speak so there are calls for Obama to sack him.

    The problem is that the gentleman happens to be right. It is also a bit awkward as he happens to be Jewish.

    There are some interesting signs lately that Jewish people who tend to use brains rather than zionist apartheid bullshyte are starting to figure out that Israel's greatest enemy in the long run may be internal rather than external- and I don't mean Palestinians.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  7. #7
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Israel's future

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    There is uproar in Israel and New York I believe over a statement by the US Ambassador to Belgium (I think) where he has said that the conflation of anti-semitism with criticism of Israeli policies does not serve Israel's interests (my paraphrasing).

    This is hugely against Israeli and AIPAC Washington-speak so there are calls for Obama to sack him.

    The problem is that the gentleman happens to be right. It is also a bit awkward as he happens to be Jewish.

    There are some interesting signs lately that Jewish people who tend to use brains rather than zionist apartheid bullshyte are starting to figure out that Israel's greatest enemy in the long run may be internal rather than external- and I don't mean Palestinians.
    Jettisoning education is always a sign that you are on the highway to hell.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Israel's future

    Yes- that can be seen in the states most spectacularly where deliberate ignorance is almost a badge of honour in some parts (Palin etc).

    Going by the long sweep of military history those who refuse to recognise any narrative other than their own are inevitably headed for a bad defeat.

    It is notable that the two groups involved in geopolitics most subject to their own narrative of the world and brooking no other are the Israelis and the Americans and they are politically allied- perhaps a chicken and egg situation and the one thing that seems to lie at the bottom of it is a kind of manifest destiny philosophy at the kernel of which is the root of their view of the world- biblical, idealogical, and as these things go therefore without any foundation in reality.

    Reality tends to bite sooner or later and every empire since the beginning of known history has felt the teeth close around it ankles and been thrown into utter confusion by it.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Israel's future

    According to Israeli spin, any Jew who criticizes the Israeli government is not only an anti-Semite but also a "self-hating Jew".

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Israel's future

    I believe that in Washington the current philosophy is exactly that anyone who criticises Israel is automatically anti-semitic by definition as Israel is the same as jewishness.

    This raises an interesting confounder because whenever anyone questions whether that fake state is in practice a theocracy its defenders are at pains to point out that some of its citizens are arabic and why, they even have a token arab in the Knesset from time to time who they can threaten anytime he or she opens their mouth to protest the apartheid policies of the state.

    So basically Israel cannot be both a democracy as its defenders claim and also exclusively Jewish.

    Therefore either Israel is exclusively Jewish or it is a democracy of different beliefs which means it cannot be anti-semitic to criticise its policies.

    They are starting to disappear up their own hole, if you'll pardon the political analysis in summary.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Israel's future

    Here's that report on the remarks by the (Jewish) US Ambassador to Belgium...

    'Some Jewish groups and others were demanding Sunday that United States President Barak Obama take action against his ambassador to Belgium, following comments the envoy made to the effect that Israel’s political positions serve as some sort of explanation for anti-Semitism amongst Muslims.

    Ambassador Howard Gutman, who is Jewish, made the controversial remarks at a conference on anti-Semitism organized by the European Jewish Union in Brussels last week.' http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/...marks-1.399460
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  12. #12
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Israel's future

    Last edited by Kev Bar; 10-12-2011 at 05:35 AM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Israel's future

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    According to Israeli spin, any Jew who criticizes the Israeli government is not only an anti-Semite but also a "self-hating Jew".
    lol, not clichés because their familiarity invariably originates from their oxymoronic misappropriation.

    Israel will flounder on, the US in tow - it's been over 60 years.
    The two State solution is a will-o-the-wisp.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Israel's future

    Going back to the OP I see no future for Israel in the long run because sooner or later it is going to emerge out from under the protective shield of the US which is weakening- and it will have to emerge as the apartheid South Africa did.

    It is no accident that Israel and apartheid South Africa very much saw eye to eye and I suspect the best chance for a survival of Israel in the future is in reaching accomodation with those peoples around them. If they don't then Israel sooner or later and one way or another will be destroyed.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  15. #15
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Israel's future

    More on Israelia's theocratic nature

    http://www.forward.com/articles/147521/

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