The rise of the far right in Europe

[Ephilant]

None of this is being reported in the main stream media over here. The media seem to be oblivious to the fact that the immigrants are being made a scapegoat by these absolute scumbags

"Mainstream" is not interested in any of this. Apart from being in the pocket of mainstream politics, showing this kind of stuff to Joe Soap might get Joe Soap thinking, and that we certainly can't have. Much safer to inflict Eurovision, Simon Cowell, Big Brother and other brain dead "entertainment" on the masses. If it doesn't bore them to death, it will at least numb the mind sufficiently resulting in heated discussions about Jedward, Man Utd, etc. "You shall not, under any circumstances, get Joe Soap to think and talk about stuff that matters" Rule number one of mainstream politics and media...

Apart from that, mainstream media in Europe are blatantly obvious under strict instructions to show Greece as the EU mandarins want you to see us, not just spoil sports and party poopers, but a bunch of lunies who even threaten to vote in an ex youth communist leader as Prime minister. Now, THAT is dangerous, so why waste time on a handful of fascists beating up a few illegal immigrants? It's only a handful anyway, and the immigrants shouldn't be there in the first place....

[Ephilant]

5 people have been charged and 20 others detained after a mob attempted to storm the disused Peiraiki Patraiki factory in Patra, currently squatted by an unknown number of illegal immegrants, mainly Afghani. During the clashes 8 police officers were in jured, 6 of whom have apparently been hospitalized. The mob was led by fascist Chrysi Avgi and, according to the police, was about 350 strong.

And just in case anybody had any doubts about where "New Democracy", the EU favourite to form a government in Greece, stands on all this, they have been recruiting members of the other Fascist party LAOS to stand as candidates for ND on June 17th. So far, 4 LAOS fascists have joined ND and will be put forward as candidates in June. This could of course explain the silence Samaras holds on incidents like the one in Patra, which are only too frequent these days. It does also almost certainly annihilate LAOS chances of getting past the 3% treshold to have some representation in the next parliament.

[Ephilant]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANypPbRBtGY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANypPbRBtGY[/ame]

When opportunity presents itself... Watch the guy with the white shirt at the end of the clip. Greek police minus 1 motor bike....

The Motor bike patrol that stumbled upon the Fascist heading towards the factory and confronted them. 6 are still in hospital after being beaten with baseball bats, iron bars, and anything else that came to hand.

Re-enforcements parked a police bus in front of an entrance to the factory as extra protection..

Petrol bombs were thrown at the police who at that stage had received more back up and answered with copious quantities of teargas

And then they tried to break through the police cordon using a bulldozer..

I am not a fan of heavy handed police anywhere, and the Greek police is very much in the Premier league when it comes to handing out that kind of treatment, but in this case I have to salute the initial patrol of 8 who stood between the protesters and the immigrants and prevented what would have turned into a full blown KKK style lynching mob.

[Holly]

Immigration is completely out-of-control in Greece. Since the government has been inept at policing its border, the people will take things into their own hands. As long as Greek citizens are reduced to eating from refuse bins and blowing their brains out because they cannot afford to eat, there should be no food for illegal immigrants. The whole situation is bizarre.

[Ephilant]

Immigration is completely out-of-control in Greece. Since the government has been inept at policing its border, the people will take things into their own hands. As long as Greek citizens are reduced to eating from refuse bins and blowing their brains out because they cannot afford to eat, there should be no food for illegal immigrants. The whole situation is bizarre.

Is this a quote from the "Chrysi Avgi handbook of Hatred" ? What an absolutely ridiculous thing to say. Greek citizens should indeed not be reduced to "eating from refuse bins and blowing their brains out", but denying immigrants, illegal or otherwise, food as a counter measure is not going to do anything for either situation. The one has in fact nothing to do with other, on the contrary, they are both a direct result of inhumane policies imposed on the weakest in society, in Greece as well as elsewhere.

[Sam Lord]

I am not a fan of heavy handed police anywhere, and the Greek police is very much in the Premier league when it comes to handing out that kind of treatment, but in this case I have to salute the initial patrol of 8 who stood between the protesters and the immigrants and prevented what would have turned into a full blown KKK style lynching mob.

Kudos to the 8 cops but I have to say I am very surprised that the Greek left is allowing the fascists have the streets. A big mistake, imo. Are there no anti-fascist networks that can quickly mobilise to meet this sort of threat head on?

[Holly]

... The one has in fact nothing to do with other, on the contrary, they are both a direct result of inhumane policies imposed on the weakest in society, in Greece as well as elsewhere.

Illegal immigrants are not part of Greek or European Union "society".


Athens

[Ephilant]

Just because they don't have the "correct" piece of paper with the "correct" stamps on it, doens't mean those have have can go off and beat the crap out of them and generally treat them worse than stray dogs.
From experience I know that most of these people are not here by choice. In fact, most of them have been conned out of everything they have by members of the Greek and European society and then dumped here with nothing. They would much rather be back home, living a life they know with people they know in a society and culture they know. But for a wide variety of reasons, all of which you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy, they can't. The least we can do is respect them for what they are, human being beings, and treat them accordingly. And taking our frustration with our system out on them, or even worse, blaming them for it, doesn't do anybody any good, and doesn't solve anything.
Let me ask you this way. Given your statements above, do you therefore agree with the treatment dished out to the Irish in London so many years ago? "No dogs, No Irish" (but we'll allow the dog in before we let the Irish in!), etc.

Of course there are always those who will try and scam a system for not so savoury reasons. We all know that, in fact, most of the time we elect them as our political representatives. And yes, they should be weeded out and be dealt with appropriately. But the genuine ones, which is the vast majority, should and must be assisted in every way we can, in exactly the wasy as we would like our own to be assisted. Neither gets what they deserve, but that is not the fault of one or the other. That is the systems' fault. It is one of the core false reasonings with all neo nazi parties to blame these people for our woes. And unfortunately one of mans weakenesses to believe in the easy way out instead of doing the hard thing and find an acceptable solution for all...

[Ephilant]

Kudos to the 8 cops but I have to say I am very surprised that the Greek left is allowing the fascists have the streets. A big mistake, imo. Are there no anti-fascist networks that can quickly mobilise to meet this sort of threat head on?

Well yes, and they didn't let this one go just like that. I was going to elaborate on that a little when Chrysi Avgi mentality got in the way of humanity...

After the attack, the Patra representative for Chrysi Avgi went on the local TV station to "justify" this attack, and found himself confronted by some 30 "anarchist" who literally took him apart. And gave the journalist who allowed him in front of the camera a final warning. No more, or else.
I don't particularly agree with this way of dealing with these guys, although I must admit taking a fascist apart does sound appealing, but at least the Chrysi Avgi guys now know that if something happens, it's the leaders that will be targetted, not the mob. Not ideal, but a workable strategy. Give them some of the medicine they prescribe for others might just make them think twice, that is on condition they have something to think with of course...

[Holly]

Just because they don't have the "correct" piece of paper with the "correct" stamps on it, doens't mean those have have can go off and beat the crap out of them and generally treat them worse than stray dogs.

I would not be upset if the politicians who allowed uncontrolled immigration were given a hiding.

They would much rather be back home, living a life they know with people they know in a society and culture they know.

Such an aspiration is easy to honor.

... Given your statements above, do you therefore agree with the treatment dished out to the Irish in London so many years ago? "No dogs, No Irish" (but we'll allow the dog in before we let the Irish in!), etc.

All people have a right to be treated with dignity.
The Greeks cannot look after the basic needs of their own citizens and should not be burdened with the care of illegal immigrants.

[Ephilant]

All people have a right to be treated with dignity.
The Greeks cannot look after the basic needs of their own citizens and should not be burdened with the care of illegal immigrants.

That is very true, but the illegal immigrants should not be punished because Greece cannot look after it's own as it should. It is not their fault, they have nothing to do with it. However, we as a people (and not just Greeks) do have a duty to look after the most vulnarable present in our society, irrespective of who they are, where they come from or how they ended up here.

[Holly]

That is very true, but the illegal immigrants should not be punished because Greece cannot look after it's own as it should. It is not their fault, they have nothing to do with it. However, we as a people (and not just Greeks) do have a duty to look after the most vulnarable present in our society, irrespective of who they are, where they come from or how they ended up here.

A solution would be to grant them their wish, as you claim, that they be repatriated.

[Ephilant]

Such an aspiration is easy to honor.
.

Don't take things out of context. The full context being

They would much rather be back home, living a life they know with people they know in a society and culture they know. But for a wide variety of reasons, all of which you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy, they can't.

, with the important part highlighted. Not so very easy to honour anymore.

Extradition based on race, colour and appearance? This has echoes of an era not long past, which plunged the whole world into a 5 year long killing spree.
Have you ever seen a man whipped to within an inch of his life, because he refused to marry his 9 year old daughter off to some rich pervert who wanted another toy? We have H. in the shelter, exactly because of that. And just because he couldn't get the paperwork to get out (it needed to be supplied by the same pervert) and he ran, you are now advocating sending him back anyway, because that will somehow stop a Greek man searching a rubbish bin for food?
You simply cannot see these people as "not complying so get them out". This is a very complex, very difficult and highly individual problem that needs to be dealth with on a one by one basis. The "one size fits all mentality" cannot apply here, and the vast majority of the Greek people know that, which is why the vast majority of the Greek people accept the presence of the illigal immegrants and in fact support them whichever way they can. If only Europe did the same, it wouldn't be half the problem they make it out to be.
I obviously don't deal with all of these people, but we do have a few in the shelter. Our nurse tells us horror stories of female circumcision and things far worse and unmentionable. She does deal with them. Just send them back is it? If that is the kind of Europe you would like to see develope (but quite possibly don't live in), then you can keep it. I will, together with 96% of the Greek population, wholeheartely support us turning our backs on that.

[Holly]

... Extradition based on race, colour and appearance?

No; based on rights.

Have you ever seen a man whipped to within an inch of his life, because he refused to marry his 9 year old daughter off to some rich pervert who wanted another toy?

Indeed, aspects of Islam appall Europeans.

... the vast majority of the Greek people know that, which is why the vast majority of the Greek people accept the presence of the illigal immegrants and in fact support them whichever way they can. ...

I would not be so sure about that.

Our nurse tells us horror stories of female circumcision and things far worse and unmentionable. ...

Unchecked Muslims immigration will see more of such outrages happening in Greece.

[Ephilant]

No; based on rights

Who's rights, their human rights or obviously flawed European "legal" rights?

Indeed, aspects of Islam appall Europeans.

Unchecked Muslims immigration will see more of such outrages happening in Greece.

I don't recall mentioning that either is/are Muslim? H. is, the women aren't. Prejudism of the highest degree, which does of course go along way to explain the attitude.

I would not be so sure about that.

I am, I live here, deal with Greeks and immigrants alike every day, and witness the support, no matter how small it is, on a daily basis. Unfortunately, we also have to witness the occassional mob of fascists take to the street and show themselves for what they are, gobscheits of the highest degree.
It's just sad to see that some people seem to find a need to stand up and try and justify the unjustifyable.