The rise of the far right in Europe

[Ephilant]

The far left are more likely to engage in violence. It was the far left in Athens, who set fire to a bank and killed three bank staff, during one of their protests.
.

Would you like to give some proof of that statement? Nobody was ever charged or arrested for that sorry episode, so nobody, including yourself, can make this statement and stand over it.
However, there is proof, and plenty of it, that the far right, both GD and LAOS, do engage in this kind of activity. In fact, the Fuhrer himself did 2 stints in jail, one for beating up a British Journalist, the other for stealing arms and explosives from an army barracks, while in the army himself. That resulted in a dishonourable discharge. His long term right hand man, Giannis Giannopoulos, was, for a long time, very active in that beautiful organisation AWB in South Africa, is was involved in the training of TerreBlanches militia, including the idiots who tried to invade Bophuthatswana. He too is ex military and harboured the Fuhrer when he left Greece for "safer" shores after the Junta was kicked out.
Their whole "food aid" stint earlier in Athens was a copybook repeat of the AWB "Voedingskema", which in itself was a copybook repeat of the Flemish Nazi sponsored "Arbeids Dienst" during WW2.

With this pedigree, the far right in Greece is responsible for over 500 racially motivated attacks in Athens and Thessaloniki, in the last 3 months. Including at least 3 murders, and mutilation of at least two people on Crete.

I don't know where you get your info on the far left doing the damage here, the opposite is reality and covered in many national and international news portals, news papers, radio and tv stations. You might want to inform yourself a little before shouting. That just so happens to be the GD and Laos tactic, they will be proud of your company.

[Ephilant]

More and more that I read about these and in general the rise of the far right in Europe the more I think rat nests like Stormfront are the breeding places for networks for the far right. What is going to happen in response Eliphant? There could be militia forming to fight them or they could very well over run the place. Here is to sincerely hoping GD collapses in someway . How that happens I dont really care but once it does ...

SYRIZA has always maintained that ND and GD are one and the same, and are now seemingly calling the Samaras bluff.
Today, they have promised Samaras and his muppets a very, very lively autumn, and told him that the whole sorry mess will be decided on the streets, by the people. A very, very thinly veiled promise of strikes, marches, riots and pyrotechnics. It is however also a very thinly disguised challenge to GD to put their money where their mouth is, and to bring out the stormtroopers. SYRIZA have always maintained that GD are indeed the militia for ND, and Samaras has never denied anything. In fact, he is on record stating that he sees no problem with GD and even recruited some of them to run for ND during last elections....
This is not the response the whole mess needs. It is an understandable response, but we know from previous experiences that rioters do get seriously carried away with things, and this could very easily end up in a full blown war in the streets of our cities.

[Ephilant]

The most dangerous development would be a group or party that pitches itself as a more restrained and reasonable version of GD.

Regards...jmcc

More reasonable implies that there is reason to start with....
But I know what you are saying, and that party is there, they are called Independent Greeks. Their leader is Panos Kammenos, the man with the famous letter to the president he never wrote...
The only have a few seats in Parliament, are far right but a little more polished than GD, and not making too much noise yet. But, they are there, and so was GD 12 months ago...

[bormotello]

Bormotello for someone whom does not like socialism you do spend an awful amount of time on this board.

as former socialist I just having fun on those who pretend to be socialist without any understanding what it means

Socialism is about empowering the people while right wing/facism whatever you want to call it is about empowering certain individuals in a hierarchy.

people need money, not power. "Socialism" in present form cannot offer anything apart from moaning and taxing rich

The socialists have risen to power in France,Greece and then we have Labour in Ireland (whom seem to be veering to the right).

Hardly socialists, more representatives of left wing part of establishment

GD is rising on the back of peoples insecurities and the lack of jobs thanks to capitalism throwing its oar in. Lack of resources means peopel turn on one and other etc.

This is why right wingers on rise, because their solution is more understandable by poor people than giving resources to everybody

[fluffybiscuits]

as former socialist I just having fun on those who pretend to be socialist without any understanding what it means



people need money, not power. "Socialism" in present form cannot offer anything apart from moaning and taxing rich


Hardly socialists, more representatives of left wing part of establishment


This is why right wingers on rise, because their solution is more understandable by poor people than giving resources to everybody

So what went wrong for you, why did you move on from socialism? In its current form it needs to be redesigned for the modern 21st century population to enable them to develop and move on forward . While Labour are moving to the right we are seeing a lot of support for parties like Syrzia in Greece whom we cannot describe as being part of the establishment, anything but and more akin to being anti establishment parties. Right wing parties are on the rise on the back of populism and riding a wave of discontent that is tiadalling in to Europe at the moment. Disenfranchised people will believe anything. "Believe in nothing and you will believe anything" as the saying goes. Perhaps socialism needs an evolution of sorts, how that happens I dont know I do try though mate, believe me...

[bormotello]

So what went wrong for you, why did you move on from socialism?

Only because I found socialism is the same dish(get into power) just under different sauce

While Labour are moving to the right we are seeing a lot of support for parties like Syrzia in Greece whom we cannot describe as being part of the establishment, anything but and more akin to being anti establishment parties.

Siriza is antiestablishment only because they not part of establishment and haven't been in power yet. As soon as they will have to make decisions instead of moaning in opposition, they will quickly change

Right wing parties are on the rise on the back of populism and riding a wave of discontent that is tiadalling in to Europe at the moment. Disenfranchised people will believe anything. "Believe in nothing and you will believe anything" as the saying goes.

Mostly because people less believe in left wing populism

Perhaps socialism needs an evolution of sorts, how that happens I dont know I do try though mate, believe me...

You cannot reform what was dead from beginning

[fluffybiscuits]

Only because I found socialism is the same dish(get into power) just under different sauce

Different brands of socialism, some less desirable than others and all are about empowering the people and yes getting into power is how we change it.

Siriza is antiestablishment only because they not part of establishment and haven't been in power yet. As soon as they will have to make decisions instead of moaning in opposition, they will quickly change

Does power corrupt all? They may be the best of a bad bunch but their heart is in the right place. Tsiprias is not afraid to stand up to Merkel and Co.

Mostly because people less believe in left wing populism

Right wing populism is wolves in sheeps clothing

You cannot reform what was dead from beginning

You can reanimate it though and watch it evolve...

[jmcc]

More reasonable implies that there is reason to start with....

There's always a reason. It may be well hidden under fine words and aspirations but the reason is simple: power.

The only have a few seats in Parliament, are far right but a little more polished than GD, and not making too much noise yet. But, they are there, and so was GD 12 months ago...

It may be convenient to allow GD to take the heat and when things really get bad, present themselves as a compromise. It is probably better for them to remain quiet until there are major movements before the end of the year.

Regards...jmcc

[Ephilant]

Although not confirmed yet, it is claimed that Greek Parliament has decided to lift parliamentary immunity in the case of Golden Dawn's Ilias Kasidiaris, the man who "bravely fought to defend the ideals of Golden Dawn and Greece", by hitting a woman several times, live on TV.
The lifting of his parliamentary immunity is not so that he can stand trial for this (no charges were pressed to prevent him from having a platform to spout more bullshit).
The immunity is lifted so that he can stand trial on the accusations of

assisting in a robbery, unprovoked grievous bodily harm, illegal weapons possession and use in October 2007. He is accused of assisting five unidentified attackers that clubbed and stabbed a postgraduate student on the campus of Athens Polytechnic in order to take his identity card by providing them with a getaway car, which he owned.

The boxer denies the charges, but is not too happy to have lost his parliamentary immunity. There are ey witnesses to the incident who have positively identified him, and gave the correct registration of the getaway car provided, which was his own car. Not too smart for a criminal to use a getaway car registered to himself...

[fluffybiscuits]

Although not confirmed yet, it is claimed that Greek Parliament has decided to lift parliamentary immunity in the case of Golden Dawn's Ilias Kasidiaris, the man who "bravely fought to defend the ideals of Golden Dawn and Greece", by hitting a woman several times, live on TV.
The lifting of his parliamentary immunity is not so that he can stand trial for this (no charges were pressed to prevent him from having a platform to spout more bullshit).
The immunity is lifted so that he can stand trial on the accusations of


The boxer denies the charges, but is not too happy to have lost his parliamentary immunity. There are ey witnesses to the incident who have positively identified him, and gave the correct registration of the getaway car provided, which was his own car. Not too smart for a criminal to use a getaway car registered to himself...

And tonight on Greece's Dumbest criminals

[Ephilant]

After the absolutely outrageous antics by Scumbags Inc, also knows as Golden Dawn, Greece seems to be finally waking up to the fact that this is not what our fathers, mothers, and whole villages died for. This is what they tried to prevent!

The GDs who took part in these raids are being charged and prosecuted. Good, but not enough. Greece needs to get tough on these guys, and it looks like it is going to happen. The government is still really only pussy-footing around them.
I'll say it again, GD are really the enforcers for ND, and Samaras almost admitted as much during the last elections when he put GD vote-getters on the ND ticket in non ND areas, and stated out loud that he "had no problem with Golden Dawn".

Anyway, out of all people God Venizelos warned the followers of Golden Dawn today that the time is very near that they themselves will become victims of "hit squads". Fighting language from the (very!) big PASOK leader, who for once got the backing of Tsipras as well.
I think we might be heading for some serious street battles in Athens, Thessaloniki and Patras. GD better have the stormtroopers ready, because if previous experience is anything to go by, they will need them. And good defenses against pyrotechnics...

[fluffybiscuits]

After the absolutely outrageous antics by Scumbags Inc, also knows as Golden Dawn, Greece seems to be finally waking up to the fact that this is not what our fathers, mothers, and whole villages died for. This is what they tried to prevent!

The GDs who took part in these raids are being charged and prosecuted. Good, but not enough. Greece needs to get tough on these guys, and it looks like it is going to happen. The government is still really only pussy-footing around them.
I'll say it again, GD are really the enforcers for ND, and Samaras almost admitted as much during the last elections when he put GD vote-getters on the ND ticket in non ND areas, and stated out loud that he "had no problem with Golden Dawn".

Anyway, out of all people God Venizelos warned the followers of Golden Dawn today that the time is very near that they themselves will become victims of "hit squads". Fighting language from the (very!) big PASOK leader, who for once got the backing of Tsipras as well.
I think we might be heading for some serious street battles in Athens, Thessaloniki and Patras. GD better have the stormtroopers ready, because if previous experience is anything to go by, they will need them. And good defenses against pyrotechnics...

Do you think tensions could be inflamed that much that there could be street battles which could escalate just short or into civil war? Economic hardship is a huge catalyst for change as was evident in the Arab Spring and parts of South America.

Get a load of this though too, GD acting as police illegally. Their MP justified it saying that they found illegal immigrants with illegal stalls. http://greece.greekreporter.com/2012...arket-vendors/

That Greek Reporter site is quite informative

[Ephilant]

Do you think tensions could be inflamed that much that there could be street battles which could escalate just short or into civil war? Economic hardship is a huge catalyst for change as was evident in the Arab Spring and parts of South America.

Get a load of this though too, GD acting as police illegally. Their MP justified it saying that they found illegal immigrants with illegal stalls. http://greece.greekreporter.com/2012...arket-vendors/

That Greek Reporter site is quite informative

It is indeed a good source, sometimes a little behind on things, but then, it moves so fast here, it's hard to stay on top...
As for street battlles, you seem keen?
Yes, I do think it will come to that, and if it does, I have my doubts if it will stay "just short of civil war". As I said elsewhere, people are simply sick of it. They are with their backs against the wall, nowhere to go, nothing left. It's a pressure cooker, ready to blow. If you look at the events of the past few days, the ONLY ones keeping it from exploding are the riot police. Even the army is protesting on the streets.
Samaras is trying his absolute best to prevent the riot police from receiving up to a 35% pay cut as demanded by the Troika. If they force his hand, which they seem hellbent on doing, then I'm afraid we're in Led Zeppelin territory, "Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good When the levee breaks, mama, you got to go..."

[fluffybiscuits]

It is indeed a good source, sometimes a little behind on things, but then, it moves so fast here, it's hard to stay on top...
As for street battlles, you seem keen?
Yes, I do think it will come to that, and if it does, I have my doubts if it will stay "just short of civil war". As I said elsewhere, people are simply sick of it. They are with their backs against the wall, nowhere to go, nothing left. It's a pressure cooker, ready to blow. If you look at the events of the past few days, the ONLY ones keeping it from exploding are the riot police. Even the army is protesting on the streets.
Samaras is trying his absolute best to prevent the riot police from receiving up to a 35% pay cut as demanded by the Troika. If they force his hand, which they seem hellbent on doing, then I'm afraid we're in Led Zeppelin territory, "Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good When the levee breaks, mama, you got to go..."

Im never in favour of a call to arms but civil disturbance that injures no one but the establishment is something I always would support. When people are pushed to the edge they do seem to be acting in accordance with the laws of physcics. For every force there is an equal and opposite force , suppose this rings true, if they push the people all the way it could work out to be bad...

[Ephilant]

Very glad to report that the scumbags who raided the markets last week-end and trashed lots of people and their belongings are indeed being prosecuted. GD insists that what they did is legal, so we're in for a serious stand-off here.
Today, it was also announced that the standard police protection given to MPs in Greece is withdrawn with immediate effect from all GD delegates.
Can't help but wonder if this is the government saying to Venizelos, "here you go, send in your goons and get it over and done with..."

After hundreds of complaints from witnesses of the Rafina incident, alleging that the police simply did not show up and effectively gave these guys free reign to do what they did, an investigation into why they did not show up resulted in the immediate suspension of the local chief of police.
Somehow, I get the impression that somebody is leaning on the government to put an end to this nonsense, and they are listening. It is of course a known fact that 3 of the people who get themselves and their possessions trashed were Chinese citizens with legitimate papers and permissions to do what they were doing....