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Thread: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

  1. #16
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

    Jesus.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Bar View Post
    Jesus.
    Exactly. This would never have seen the light of day except for the French extradition attempt.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe McGillycuddy View Post
    The Sophie Toscan de Plantier case looks more and more like a complete shambles:

    http://www.independent.ie/national-n...k-2960375.html
    The report said the garda investigation into Ms du Plantier's death has effectively "destroyed" the quality of life for Mr Bailey and his partner, Jules Thomas. It also makes serious allegations against gardai in relation to how witnesses were encouraged to make statements.

    It repeatedly referred to indications of Mr Bailey's "innocence" such as his willingness to give blood samples and hair samples. It criticised the arrest of Ms Thomas, Mr Bailey's partner, as possibly illegal and noted that, in fact, the DPP's office had advised against her arrest.

    The report also highlights how neighbours in the vicinity of Ms du Plantier's holiday home reported that their dogs started barking on the night of the murder from 10pm for up to three hours, an indication of a disturbance in the area. At that time, Mr Bailey was in the pub.
    The Press has been a disgrace in this too. There was vilification of Bailey in the press during a trial and very little follow up on the very obvious problems Garda malpractice in the investigation.

    And of course, the person who did kill the poor woman has never been brought to account.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 25-03-2014 at 05:58 PM.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    The Press has been a disgrace in this too. There was vilification of Bailey in the press during a trial and very little follow up on the very obvious problems Garda malpractice in the investigation.

    And of course, the person who did kill the poor woman has never been brought to account.
    The problem is that the crime correspondents are embedded. They rely on the Gardai for their stories so you'll rarely see them write anything that departs from the official line on a particular investigation.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 25-03-2014 at 05:58 PM.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    The Press has been a disgrace in this too. There was vilification of Bailey in the press during a trial and very little follow up on the very obvious problems Garda malpractice in the investigation.

    And of course, the person who did kill the poor woman has never been brought to account.
    I've commented before that local gardai were under huge pressure to find the killer, mostly because there were fears about the effect on tourism, bizarre as that may seem now, but in '96 tourism was all Schull had.

    They had absolutely no support from HQ, it being Christmas. The person who is appealing to the Supreme Court was a resident in the area for some time and 'was in the pub' on the evening in question; a not unusual situation. The witnesses interviewed were well known to local gardai as 'friends' and were able to say things they later withdrew, after being threatened, as has been widely reported.

    Yes, the guards may have made a mess of it, from todays optics, but there are occasions when circumstantial evidence is important. It is fine to take the high horse on the legal niceties, but there was a woman killed and her family have had to fight long and hard to even get to this stage.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 25-03-2014 at 05:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe McGillycuddy View Post
    The Sophie Toscan de Plantier case looks more and more like a complete shambles:

    http://www.independent.ie/national-n...k-2960375.html
    That's a bloody joke, he was "told" of pressure - he wasn't involved??

    "no further action followed" - why??

    The whole treatment of the case stinks, there was undoubtedly poor police work, but Barnes was contacted "in '98" why two years after the event? The gov constantly tells us the DPP is independent, here's another example of what that all means.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe McGillycuddy View Post
    The problem is that the crime correspondents are embedded. They rely on the Gardai for their stories so you'll rarely see them write anything that departs from the official line on a particular investigation.
    There was a comment earlier about French laws vis a vis Bailey, but our laws require editors to ensure crime corrs report only what the guards say they can say, otherwise they get sued. Its fine for pol corrs to be embedded, they only report what the pols want publicised but crime corrs would like to have more freedom.

  8. #23
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    I've commented before that local gardai were under huge pressure to find the killer, mostly because there were fears about the effect on tourism, bizarre as that may seem now, but in '96 tourism was all Schull had.

    They had absolutely no support from HQ, it being Christmas. The person who is appealing to the Supreme Court was a resident in the area for some time and 'was in the pub' on the evening in question; a not unusual situation. The witnesses interviewed were well known to local gardai as 'friends' and were able to say things they later withdrew, after being threatened, as has been widely reported.

    Yes, the guards may have made a mess of it, from todays optics, but there are occasions when circumstantial evidence is important. It is fine to take the high horse on the legal niceties, but there was a woman killed and her family have had to fight long and hard to even get to this stage.
    That's certainly a hanging offence.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    There was a comment earlier about French laws vis a vis Bailey, but our laws require editors to ensure crime corrs report only what the guards say they can say, otherwise they get sued. Its fine for pol corrs to be embedded, they only report what the pols want publicised but crime corrs would like to have more freedom.
    The guards have a role in censoring coverage of crime cases?
    Surely not?
    That would be an appalling vista.
    Editors with their legal advisors should make an independent decision. That is more or less the definition of a Free Press.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    The guards have a role in censoring coverage of crime cases?
    Surely not?
    That would be an appalling vista.
    Editors with their legal advisors should make an independent decision. That is more or less the definition of a Free Press.
    Jaysus CF, your naivety worries me.

    The biggest writers/brodacasters on crime and related matters are fed almost 100% by the guards. So, the temptation to use that relationship to control the agenda is too big to not use.

    In any case there is a bite the hand that feeds you element. Add to all that the legal mess we are in re libel.

    Just one example of the liaison - a few years ago there was a sit in in St Pats cathedral, by afghanis. There was a report in the papers that many of the calls being made by the sitters-in were to Kabul..... and how, pray, did the papers know that? The guards, monitoring, under a McDowall introduced law, mobile phones, and releasing gems to the corrs..... Not a BIG deal but indicative.

    OTOH, you need to feed the forums on here, so that the likes of me and the Biffo can respond....

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    Jaysus CF, your naivety worries me.

    The biggest writers/brodacasters on crime and related matters are fed almost 100% by the guards. So, the temptation to use that relationship to control the agenda is too big to not use.

    In any case there is a bite the hand that feeds you element. Add to all that the legal mess we are in re libel.

    Just one example of the liaison - a few years ago there was a sit in in St Pats cathedral, by afghanis. There was a report in the papers that many of the calls being made by the sitters-in were to Kabul..... and how, pray, did the papers know that? The guards, monitoring, under a McDowall introduced law, mobile phones, and releasing gems to the corrs..... Not a BIG deal but indicative.

    OTOH, you need to feed the forums on here, so that the likes of me and the Biffo can respond....
    No, I'm not that naive, but did think that what you said was shocking and should not just pass without comment.

    The relationship you describe is very unhealthy, not least because a fair amount of what the Gardaí "leak" is speculation and invention guesswork on their part. The Kabul thing being a possible case in point, although where else would they be phoning ?

    Yes, they do try to control the agenda through leaks and press releases. But the Gardai do not have any legal right to say what should and shouldn't be published in newspapers (beyond the limits of law on incitement to hatred, official secrets? and Contempt of Court. Judges can rule newspapers in contempt, and place various embargoes.

    The Press in Ireland is far too much inclined to be a mouthpiece for the State - with a small number of obvious honourable exceptions among journalists, some of whom have done great independent work.

    Bailey does not seem to have got a fair deal at all from the media.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 13-12-2011 at 11:57 AM.

  12. #27

    Default Re: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

    I wonder if a similar situation arose in France and the RoI went after a French national, what would happen? Methinks RoI would be told where to get off mais tres vite!

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

    Quote Originally Posted by OB1 Kenobe View Post
    I wonder if a similar situation arose in France and the RoI went after a French national, what would happen? Methinks RoI would be told where to get off mais tres vite!
    Welcome.

    I haven't followed the legalities of the extradition, but it is hard to see why it would be allowed when the has been no basis for a prosecution in Ireland.
    It reeks of a form of double jeopardy.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

    Quote Originally Posted by OB1 Kenobe View Post
    I wonder if a similar situation arose in France and the RoI went after a French national, what would happen? Methinks RoI would be told where to get off mais tres vite!
    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Welcome.

    I haven't followed the legalities of the extradition, but it is hard to see why it would be allowed when the has been no basis for a prosecution in Ireland.
    It reeks of a form of double jeopardy.
    Quite.

    If a crime is committed here it should be dealt with by our justice system. The idea that an innocent citizen should be exported for prosecution is a perversion of justice and an affront to our sovereignty.

  15. #30
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Ian Bailey extradition case adjourned to consider 'new material'

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    Jaysus CF, your naivety worries me.

    The biggest writers/brodacasters on crime and related matters are fed almost 100% by the guards. So, the temptation to use that relationship to control the agenda is too big to not use.

    In any case there is a bite the hand that feeds you element. Add to all that the legal mess we are in re libel.

    Just one example of the liaison - a few years ago there was a sit in in St Pats cathedral, by afghanis. There was a report in the papers that many of the calls being made by the sitters-in were to Kabul..... and how, pray, did the papers know that? The guards, monitoring, under a McDowall introduced law, mobile phones, and releasing gems to the corrs..... Not a BIG deal but indicative.

    OTOH, you need to feed the forums on here, so that the likes of me and the Biffo can respond....
    If memory serves me right I think one of the redtops was was insinuating they were ringing the Taliban.

    Sounds very Bailey-esque in terms of accuracy.

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