Page 1 of 41 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 612

Thread: The Ongoing Political Transformation of Europe:UPDATE - Juncker Callls for EU Army

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    77,915

    Default The Ongoing Political Transformation of Europe:UPDATE - Juncker Callls for EU Army

    Noonan gave an interesting speech in Dublin today.

    He said that the role of the EU Commission (with its very carefully negotiated balance of power between larger and smaller states) has been substantially pushed aside by "the larger countries" - i.e. Germany and France.

    He also said that the IMF - which is not part of the EU at all - has a greater role than the ECB.

    Yesterday and today we have had the spectacle of Papandreou, leader of a sovereign state, being berated on plans for a referendum, and ordered to word any referendum to include a choice to leave the Eurozone. Also, reportedly, severe pressures were put on for a national government in Greece, without a general election. There is even talk of specific individuals being wanted in Government by "the larger countries."

    So, I thought that it was time for a thread on the political (rather than economic) transformation of the EU.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 09-03-2015 at 07:35 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    49

    Default Re: The Ongoing Political Transformation of the EU

    I know I probably come across as an Irish UKIP-er, but listening to Sarkozy at Cannes today, atlking about how 'right it is that after our history it is France and Germany who are reaffirming our committment to Unification....'
    - do they realise how close they are to looking like the Reich if the only justification for the agenda they're pursuing is the fact that this time there's consensus between France and Germany on power-sharing ?

    How valid is Irish involvement with this project when there has never been an opan admission of it's purpose - the creation of a State relagatin National government to the level of a Stormont/county council ?

    Aren't there provisos in our Constitution that render invalid our involvement with this project when it reaches this stage ?
    Are there measures demanded from our constitution concerning treasonous activity by elected representatives ?
    I'm not being overly dramatic for the sake of it - what is developing is tantamount to an act of war - and Noonan, Kenny, Gilmore, Martin & Adams are fellow-conspirators with the emerging Axis.

    Have you read Barrosso's speech a couple of weeks back - 'Une moment Federateur has arrived.....the democratic model has not worked...' - this last seemingly with reference to removing the need for unanimity among member states and creating a centralised power.

    And FG/Lab are still pretending there ambition is to restore 'fiscal sovereignty' !!!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    heart of Europe
    Posts
    22,314

    Default Re: The Ongoing Political Transformation of the EU

    Germnay is reportedly coming under pressure to drop the single mandate of the ECB

    Simon Hobbs just reported there is a Die Welt story saying the French and the EU Commission, along with the US are trying to strong-arm the Germans into dumping the ECB’s single mandate and have the ECB assume responsibility for supporting European bond markets permanently.
    http://www.forexlive.com/blog/2011/1...-hearing-this/
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown
    Posts
    8,498

    Default Re: The Ongoing Political Transformation of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by DCon View Post
    Germany is reportedly coming under pressure to drop the single mandate of the ECB
    Not before time. Peter Morici on the radio this am saying it was too late for subtlety and he actually used the term printing.... ECB should be in charge of recapping the banks also.

    He's right, it's all that can save the Euro (and all of us) now.

    Inflation is the least of our worries right now. Much as I'm not Sarko's greatest fan, he's right about that.

    It appears Super Mario may think so too.... should save us a few quid on the mortgage next month.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    77,915

    Default Re: The Ongoing Political Transformation of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    Not before time. Peter Morici on the radio this am saying it was too late for subtlety and he actually used the term printing.... ECB should be in charge of recapping the banks also.

    He's right, it's all that can save the Euro (and all of us) now.

    Inflation is the least of our worries right now. Much as I'm not Sarko's greatest fan, he's right about that.

    It appears Super Mario may think so too.... should save us a few quid on the mortgage next month.
    Effectively, they want the ECB to be the equivalent of the Fed, or the Bank of England for sterling.

    This was always understood to be a deal breaker for Germany. But what I'm interested in doing in this thread, is looking to the political institutions of the EU, and whether or not they are being by-passed, or transformed.

    There were endless debates over the Lisbon Treaty on the precise voting powers of each state. Have these all been effectively binned now, and are we just dealing with creditor-debtor relations, with an abandonment of all normal political and diplomatic relations ?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    49

    Default Re: The Ongoing Political Transformation of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    .... Also, reportedly, severe pressures were put on for a national government in Greece, without a general election. There is even talk of specific individuals being wanted in Government by "the larger countries."

    .
    (What's the name of Trichet's particular Greek that they want to see oust George ?)

    And isn't this what has probably been covertly going on for years now; the infiltration of Political Parties, Universities and other institutions with the Cause ?
    Look at how quickly Gaybo was dropped when he made his remarks earlier this year.
    And Sinn Féin's one-would-have-thought-oxymoronic shift to supporting the Institution that they know well is set out on a course completely at odds with self-determination.
    I don't think we have grounds to criticise the Chinese model any more. But we should have known it wouldn't be long before toleration turned into imitation.
    Interesting how deeply entrenched Britain is in all this too - after all, it wasn't Hitler's treatment of the jews that prompted the declaration of war but having such a powerful neighbour. But it's no problem now.

    All the emergent regime has to do now to truly assume the heirship of the Reich is meet opposition with extreme violence.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown
    Posts
    8,498

    Default Re: The Ongoing Political Transformation of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    This was always understood to be a deal breaker for Germany. But what I'm interested in doing in this thread, is looking to the political institutions of the EU, and whether or not they are being by-passed, or transformed.
    Precisely. The ECB will have to be the first transformant, if the Euro and EU in its current form are to survive.

    The alternative to the controversial (in Germany) bond buying programme and future bank recaps via printed money is actual Euro collapse, as I have always argued.

    Therefore, the ECB needs extra mandates that supersede inflation, such as lender of last resort to sovereigns and banks in distress, recapitaliser of distressed banks, etc.

    With that, they'll have to be given extra powers....such as the ability to take over failing banks if they need a recap, in the same way our government has dealt with our own banks. So, financial regulation in the Eurozone, extra responsibility no.1

    Next one; sovereign bailouts/haircuts/recaps. I'm not a believer in bailouts, more debt only makes the problem worse unless money is lent at rock bottom rates. Only the ECB could lend at really low rates, and only the ECB could stand behind sovereign bonds (and restabilize the markets), should a haircut be administered.

    For example, solution for Italy; buy bonds and keep the price down, solution for Greece, buy up an outstanding % of their bonds (say 80-100%), and offer the banks equivalent recompense. To avoid moral hazard, tell the Greeks they've to live on their tax revenues for at least 10 years, no further sovereign bonds.

    To do all that, you would have to add significant control and oversight powers.

    Inflation alone as a mandate for a 17 nation currency union is ridiculous. The central bank needs trasnforming

    So, Super Mario, will it be Flower Power, Freeze, or the Flying Helmet?? Or just a magic mushroom.......

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    77,915

    Default Re: The Ongoing Political Transformation of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    Precisely. The ECB will have to be the first transformant, if the Euro and EU in its current form are to survive.

    The alternative to the controversial (in Germany) bond buying programme and future bank recaps via printed money is actual Euro collapse, as I have always argued.

    Therefore, the ECB needs extra mandates that supersede inflation, such as lender of last resort to sovereigns and banks in distress, recapitaliser of distressed banks, etc.

    With that, they'll have to be given extra powers....such as the ability to take over failing banks if they need a recap, in the same way our government has dealt with our own banks. So, financial regulation in the Eurozone, extra responsibility no.1

    Next one; sovereign bailouts/haircuts/recaps. I'm not a believer in bailouts, more debt only makes the problem worse unless money is lent at rock bottom rates. Only the ECB could lend at really low rates, and only the ECB could stand behind sovereign bonds (and restabilize the markets), should a haircut be administered.

    For example, solution for Italy; buy bonds and keep the price down, solution for Greece, buy up an outstanding % of their bonds (say 80-100%), and offer the banks equivalent recompense. To avoid moral hazard, tell the Greeks they've to live on their tax revenues for at least 10 years, no further sovereign bonds.

    To do all that, you would have to add significant control and oversight powers.

    Inflation alone as a mandate for a 17 nation currency union is ridiculous. The central bank needs trasnforming

    So, Super Mario, will it be Flower Power, Freeze, or the Flying Helmet?? Or just a magic mushroom.......
    These are essentially economic measures. Are they possible within the current political framework of the EU and the component nation states ?
    How would people have any democratic control over these institutions and their decisions ?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    heart of Europe
    Posts
    22,314

    Default Re: The Ongoing Political Transformation of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    These are essentially economic measures. Are they possible within the current political framework of the EU and the component nation states ?
    How would people have any democratic control over these institutions and their decisions ?
    probably none.

    Look at the Fed. It is owned by the TBTF banks.
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    77,915

    Default Re: The Ongoing Political Transformation of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by DCon View Post
    probably none.

    Look at the Fed. It is owned by the TBTF banks.
    Referendum required, for sure.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    1,817

    Default Re: The Ongoing Political Transformation of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Referendum required, for sure.
    Referendum rejected, also for sure, then the Greek treatment for Ireland?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown
    Posts
    8,498

    Default Re: The Ongoing Political Transformation of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    These are essentially economic measures. Are they possible within the current political framework of the EU and the component nation states ?
    How would people have any democratic control over these institutions and their decisions ?
    They are measures to deal with economic problems, but they have MASSIVE legal and logistical ramifications and may even require treaty change and changes of institutional mandate in order to implement.

    For example, if the ECB is suddenly in charge of Eurozone bank failures, then a raft of laws need changing, which means parliaments etc. The ECB's own charters/mandates/whatever you call them may also require change and new institutional support if their responsibilities change.

    Finally, presumably to avoid moral hazard on the part of indebted nations, presumably the EU stability pacts and fiscal oversight need to be beefed up in concert..... which WILL mean treaty change.

    Either that, or the Euro collapses.....

    as to democratic control, haahaa. Mind you, even in countries with their own central bank, there has been little democratic control over anything to do with the almighty Markets.

    The Church of Mammon rules, and it rules absolutely...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    77,915

    Default Re: The Ongoing Political Transformation of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    They are measures to deal with economic problems, but they have MASSIVE legal and logistical ramifications and may even require treaty change and changes of institutional mandate in order to implement.

    For example, if the ECB is suddenly in charge of Eurozone bank failures, then a raft of laws need changing, which means parliaments etc. The ECB's own charters/mandates/whatever you call them may also require change and new institutional support if their responsibilities change.

    Finally, presumably to avoid moral hazard on the part of indebted nations, presumably the EU stability pacts and fiscal oversight need to be beefed up in concert..... which WILL mean treaty change.

    Either that, or the Euro collapses.....

    as to democratic control, haahaa. Mind you, even in countries with their own central bank, there has been little democratic control over anything to do with the almighty Markets.

    The Church of Mammon rules, and it rules absolutely...
    I'm going to move these posts into the ECB thread, as this thread is in the political forum and I'm aiming to get some discussion in it of the political aspects of the situation in Europe.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    290

    Default Re: The Ongoing Political Transformation of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    These are essentially economic measures. Are they possible within the current political framework of the EU and the component nation states ?
    How would people have any democratic control over these institutions and their decisions ?
    This is the core of the problem. Here's a letter I had printed in the Sunday Business Post, on Sunday just gone, under "The EU Project"- http://sbpost.ie/post/pages/wholesto...=20-qqqx=1.asp

    The "democratic deficit" may be a corny catchphrase, but it encapsulates something very unsettling.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    773

    Default Re: The Ongoing Political Transformation of the EU

    I think its fascinating what is happening to the EU. Its a clear example of contemporary neofascism.

    Democracy, in the guise we know it, is ok as along as it agrees with the interests of money. However now that people/democracy are so visibly diametrically opposed to said interests right now, then the response is just as forceful. A violent put down of people in the interests of power.

    The nuanced measures of control like the illusions of representative democracy no longer suffice. Outright aggression and authoritarianism are the only things keeping the show on the road right now.

    As Joe Higgins pointed out in the Dáil today, this and particularly social-democrat parties represent the economic equivalent to the 1914 betrayal in the class war.

    Who wouldn't also bet on a neofascist interbellum period? For many the trend is frighteningly apparent

    http://english.aljazeera.net/program...360731764.html
    "Fascinating, watching the world act as though it still had a financial system. Using the toilet, when the pipes are gone." - some guy on twitter

Page 1 of 41 12311 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Share us
Follow Us