The Sex Thread

[fluffybiscuits]

I know the title really makes you look twice doesnt it? Im not looking to discuss your conquests or jokes or anything like that but I want to discuss sex from a psychological, social, scientific, cultural and perhaps political and historical context . I posted on the other site about this and people had an issue so before I proceed, if you dont have an interest or are prude this may not be for you.

We are all adults and should behave accordingly ! :p

I'll start by just briefly explaining my fascination with Freud. Most of his theories have been debunked but a few still hold some sway most notably I believe the Oedipus complex. Do fathers suffer some sort of jealousy from their sons ? Freud believed we were all attracted to our mothers but social taboos prevented us from acting on them. It was par for the norm in Egypt for people to marry their sisters or other immediate female relatives.

On another note, The Late Late Show has been said to be one of the driving forces behind the breaking down of sexual barriers in Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Late_Late_Show#cite_note-From_polygamy_and_orgies_to_the_Late.2C_Late_.27sc andals.27-35) . Remember the nightie incident?

These are just two aspects of many that are up for discussion.

[PaddyJoe]

I know the title really makes you look twice doesnt it? Im not looking to discuss your conquests or jokes or anything like that but I want to discuss sex from a psychological, social, scientific, cultural and perhaps political and historical context . I posted on the other site about this and people had an issue so before I proceed, if you dont have an interest or are prude this may not be for you.

We are all adults and should behave accordingly ! :p

I'll start by just briefly explaining my fascination with Freud. Most of his theories have been debunked but a few still hold some sway most notably I believe the Oedipus complex. Do fathers suffer some sort of jealousy from their sons ? Freud believed we were all attracted to our mothers but social taboos prevented us from acting on them. It was par for the norm in Egypt for people to marry their sisters or other immediate female relatives.

On another note, The Late Late Show has been said to be one of the driving forces behind the breaking down of sexual barriers in Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Late_Late_Show#cite_note-From_polygamy_and_orgies_to_the_Late.2C_Late_.27sc andals.27-35) . Remember the nightie incident?

These are just two aspects of many that are up for discussion.

Absolutely correct. There was no sex in Ireland before the Late Late Show.

[antiestablishmentarian]

An interesting fact- Ireland had a higher rate of syphilis infection per person than any other country in Europe in the 1920s, and one of Europe's biggest red-light districts too, Monto.

[Sam Lord]

Absolutely correct. There was no sex in Ireland before the Late Late Show.

I have heard that said but wondered where all the babies come from.

[Fraxinus]

Obviously Irish people were very sexually active back in our grandparents generation....8 kids was nearly the minimum and lets face it, pregnancy was probably the only form of contraception! It's a pity they were made feel so guilty and ashamed about it.

[fluffybiscuits]

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/love-sex/redlight-alert-2615112.html

Very good article in the Indo about the Monto years ago. It quotes an old kids rhyme which used to be sung...



Down in Mabbot Lane

Lives a big fat lady

If you want to know her name

You have to pay a shilling

Soldiers two and six

Sailors two a penny

Big fat men two pound ten

Little kids a penny

[fluffybiscuits]

Obviously Irish people were very sexually active back in our grandparents generation....8 kids was nearly the minimum and lets face it, pregnancy was probably the only form of contraception! It's a pity they were made feel so guilty and ashamed about it.

This is a link to an article that appeared in Time magazine . It details the pill train to Belfast and how women came down with contraception. Intrguing stuff! Under the Criminal Justice act women couldnt buy contraceptive

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,905134,00.html

[Griska]

This is a link to an article that appeared in Time magazine . It details the pill train to Belfast and how women came down with contraception. Intrguing stuff! Under the Criminal Justice act women couldnt buy contraceptive

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,905134,00.html

Contraceptives make Baby Jesus cry.

[fluffybiscuits]

Contraceptives make Baby Jesus cry.

The Sky Fairy and his zombie carpenter son dont approve :D

[Fraxinus]

The Sky Fairy and his zombie carpenter son dont approve :D

Does this mean the Holy Spirit is also the Holy Spunk seeing as it was it/he that did the impregnating?....also known as the Holy Third Shamrock Leaf.

[eamo]

Absolutely correct. There was no sex in Ireland before the Late Late Show.
That is a quote from the late Oliver J. Flanagan Fine Gael T.D.
He was one hell of a T.D.!! In his early days as an independent T.D., he blaimed the Jews and Freemasions for all of Ireland's ills.and reconed the Natzis had some redeeming notions concerning the Jewish people. He moderated his views in later life, drifting left until he ended up as only extremely right wing.
He, and the late Bishop Jeremiah Newman of Limerick, another scourge of the Jews and freemasons and their devilish plots, fought a ferocious rear guard action against the encroachment of sanity into the still young Irish state.
One infamous quote from the good Bishop was that Catholics who questioned the (Roman Catholic) Church were "no better than Protestants". So complete was the indoctrination of much of the population that unless you were amongst "Freethinkers" (and for you young 'uns, that was a term of abuse!) you could get into a heated argument, by questioning the obvious truth of the Bishops statement. Questioning his sanity and calling him not very nice names could turn a whole pub against you and would reveal in no-time the wisdom of keeping running as one of your hobby's. On this you can take my word.
He was known as the Limerick Mullah because he admired the Islamic tendency to merge state and religion. and the Republic of Ireland was to be a (R) Catholic state for a Catholic people and if ya didnt like that well you could pi$$ of to England, and good riddance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_J._Flanagan

[PaddyJoe]

That is a quote from the late Oliver J. Flanagan Fine Gael T.D.
He was one hell of a T.D.!! In his early days as an independent T.D., he blaimed the Jews and Freemasions for all of Ireland's ills.and reconed the Natzis had some redeeming notions concerning the Jewish people. He moderated his views in later life, drifting left until he ended up as only extremely right wing.
He, and the late Bishop Jeremiah Newman of Limerick, another scourge of the Jews and freemasons and their devilish plots, fought a ferocious rear guard action against the encroachment of sanity into the still young Irish state.
One infamous quote from the good Bishop was that Catholics who questioned the (Roman Catholic) Church were "no better than Protestants". So complete was the indoctrination of much of the population that unless you were amongst "Freethinkers" (and for you young 'uns, that was a term of abuse!) you could get into a heated argument, by questioning the obvious truth of the Bishops statement. Questioning his sanity and calling him not very nice names could turn a whole pub against you and would reveal in no-time the wisdom of keeping running as one of your hobby's. On this you can take my word.
He was known as the Limerick Mullah because he admired the Islamic tendency to merge state and religion. and the Republic of Ireland was to be a (R) Catholic state for a Catholic people and if ya didnt like that well you could pi$$ of to England, and good riddance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_J._Flanagan
Thanks Eamo. I remember the quote but I didn't know it came ffrom OJ:)

[morticia]

Them days is gone, Eamo, thank God ;-)

These days, standing up for a bishop (regardless of how blameless) could get you into the same sort of hot water in a pub, I'd imagine

Well, some things have changed....

[PaddyJoe]

Some of you will also be familiar with the origin of the phrase "An Irish solution to an Irish problem"
;)

[eamo]

Reading some of the recent comments I feel they are gratuitously offensive to people who believe in God and Jesus and all that stuff. Attacking a public individual or a church organisation is one thing, but why ridicule someones religious belief.

[fluffybiscuits]

Do people think Ireland is still sexually repressed?

On the subject of S&M, there is a monthly night held in Dublin that is very popular.

<Mod:CF - if you want the link, you will have to google it yourself >

[fluffybiscuits]

Reading some of the recent comments I feel they are gratuitously offensive to people who believe in God and Jesus and all that stuff. Attacking a public individual or a church organisation is one thing, but why ridicule someones religious belief.

Apologies well I hope the above comment from me puts things back on topic!

[eamo]

Apologies well I hope the above comment from me puts things back on topic!
No problem. Hey!! as long as its safe, sane and consensual, and between adults, then it ain't no one else's business:)

[morticia]

Contraceptives make Baby Jesus cry.

I suspect that overpopulation and pollution might be more likely to keep Him awake at night........ but then, the CoI and most other Christian denominations never had a contraceptive ban

Married priests tend to appreciate the cost of children at first hand......

[Fraxinus]

Reading some of the recent comments I feel they are gratuitously offensive to people who believe in God and Jesus and all that stuff. Attacking a public individual or a church organisation is one thing, but why ridicule someones religious belief.

I realise that's aimed at me. If I caused offence i regret that but I don't believe religion is beyond ridicule. Many people mockingly attack socialism on here but I don't see anyone protesting that the beliefs of socialists be respected.

[eamo]

The Sky Fairy and his zombie carpenter son dont approve :D


Does this mean the Holy Spirit is also the Holy Spunk seeing as it was it/he that did the impregnating?....also known as the Holy Third Shamrock Leaf.


I realise that's aimed at me. If I caused offence i regret that but I don't believe religion is beyond ridicule. Many people mockingly attack socialism on here but I don't see anyone protesting that the beliefs of socialists be respected.




Hi Fraxinus, it was both the above posts I had in mind. It is a good point you make about people attacking socialism. The difference as I see it is that we Socialists seek to engage with the material world, we may have our spiritual beliefs but what we seek to implement is real, concrete politics. The religious beliefs of people are like their sexual fantasies, personal. If they seek to implement a religious public policy then that policy becomes fair game for ridicule. But not their private beliefs.

[jinnyjoe]

I have always reckoned that we should be far more open about sex in Ireland and the consequences of: There should be a dedicated curriculum in secondary schools incorporating the following (sorry not all about sex)
1. Sex education,
2.Consequences on early pregnancy
3.Consequences of unprotected sex
4.Household budgets
5. Cooking on a budget
6. Mortgages and buying houses
7.Driving Lessons and safety in driving
8.Coping with life stresses (Death, alchoholism, drugs etc)
and with a system for referral to councillors if an issue arises with a particular pupil affected with some of the above issues.
I really think these "Life" classes are important.
Now I know that some of these subjects are hit on in an ad hoc manner in schools but I think a dedicated curriculum with projects and assignments (not written exam) culminating in a Junior/Leaving Cert qualification would be moving forward. What do you think?

[Griska]

Hi Fraxinus, it was both the above posts I had in mind. It is a good point you make about people attacking socialism. The difference as I see it is that we Socialists seek to engage with the material world, we may have our spiritual beliefs but what we seek to implement is real, concrete politics. The religious beliefs of people are like their sexual fantasies, personal. If they seek to implement a religious public policy then that policy becomes fair game for ridicule. But not their private beliefs.

Ah here.
You've just gone and compared religious beliefs to sexual fantasies.
I wouldn't think many members of the flock would thank you for that;).

[eamo]

Ah here.
You've just gone and compared religious beliefs to sexual fantasies.
I wouldn't think many members of the flock would thank you for that;).

Had'nt thought of it like that:D flock, sheep, and you know the rest!!
Man, is there no limit to the human sexual imagination:D.

[eamo]

I have always reckoned that we should be far more open about sex in Ireland and the consequences of: There should be a dedicated curriculum in secondary schools incorporating the following (sorry not all about sex)
1. Sex education,
2.Consequences on early pregnancy
3.Consequences of unprotected sex
4.Household budgets
5. Cooking on a budget
6. Mortgages and buying houses
7.Driving Lessons and safety in driving
8.Coping with life stresses (Death, alchoholism, drugs etc)
and with a system for referral to councillors if an issue arises with a particular pupil affected with some of the above issues.
I really think these "Life" classes are important.
Now I know that some of these subjects are hit on in an ad hoc manner in schools but I think a dedicated curriculum with projects and assignments (not written exam) culminating in a Junior/Leaving Cert qualification would be moving forward. What do you think?
Jinnyjoe, PLEASE!! stop being sensible!!

[jinnyjoe]

Jinnyjoe, PLEASE!! stop being sensible!!

Aara I'm sorry, I'm a mother, I have to be sensible, it's part of my make up. Not that I have been very sensible in the past mind you, hence the knowledge for the "life classes":o

[C. Flower]

I have always reckoned that we should be far more open about sex in Ireland and the consequences of: There should be a dedicated curriculum in secondary schools incorporating the following (sorry not all about sex)
1. Sex education,
2.Consequences on early pregnancy
3.Consequences of unprotected sex
4.Household budgets
5. Cooking on a budget
6. Mortgages and buying houses
7.Driving Lessons and safety in driving
8.Coping with life stresses (Death, alchoholism, drugs etc)
and with a system for referral to councillors if an issue arises with a particular pupil affected with some of the above issues.
I really think these "Life" classes are important.
Now I know that some of these subjects are hit on in an ad hoc manner in schools but I think a dedicated curriculum with projects and assignments (not written exam) culminating in a Junior/Leaving Cert qualification would be moving forward. What do you think?

Yes, and the teachers should teach it. I happened upon a "relationships" class in a secondary school a couple of years ago by a couple of evangelical fanatics, brought in for the day.

[jinnyjoe]

Yes, and the teachers should teach it. I happened upon a "relationships" class in a secondary school a couple of years ago by a couple of evangelical fanatics, brought in for the day.

Oh Yes Cass totally agree, NO religion involved whatsoever, taught in a NON judgemental manner for the purposes of education nothing else.

[Fraxinus]

Hi Fraxinus, it was both the above posts I had in mind. It is a good point you make about people attacking socialism. The difference as I see it is that we Socialists seek to engage with the material world, we may have our spiritual beliefs but what we seek to implement is real, concrete politics. The religious beliefs of people are like their sexual fantasies, personal. If they seek to implement a religious public policy then that policy becomes fair game for ridicule. But not their private beliefs.

I suppose we could get into a debate about whether or not our thoughts, as thought by our material selves, are as much part of the material world around us than anything else but I'll refrain. I'll just try not to be overly insulting to the religious in future:)

[eamo]

I have always reckoned that we should be far more open about sex in Ireland and the consequences of: There should be a dedicated curriculum in secondary schools incorporating the following (sorry not all about sex)
1. Sex education,
2.Consequences on early pregnancy
3.Consequences of unprotected sex
4.Household budgets
5. Cooking on a budget
6. Mortgages and buying houses
7.Driving Lessons and safety in driving
8.Coping with life stresses (Death, alchoholism, drugs etc)
and with a system for referral to councillors if an issue arises with a particular pupil affected with some of the above issues.
I really think these "Life" classes are important.
Now I know that some of these subjects are hit on in an ad hoc manner in schools but I think a dedicated curriculum with projects and assignments (not written exam) culminating in a Junior/Leaving Cert qualification would be moving forward. What do you think?

A good list, and yes they should be thought in secondary school along with;
9. doing business with the banks, and knowing they are not your friend.
10. Swimming and water safety! We are an island, a very wet one, full of rivers, and loads of kids cant swim.

[eamo]

I suppose we could get into a debate about whether or not our thoughts, as thought by our material selves, are as much part of the material world around us than anything else but I'll refrain. I'll just try not to be overly insulting to the religious in future:)
:eek: I know when to run away! like now!! night all:)

[Fraxinus]

:eek: I know when to run away! like now!! night all:)

Goodnight eamo

[PaddyJoe]

The 'Irish solution to an Irish problem' was a quote from Charlie Haughey who introduced a family planning act in 1979 which allowed doctors:
to prescribe contraceptives, including condoms, for bona fide family planning purposes or for medical reasons.It was only in the mid eighties that you could buy condoms without a prescription.
In practice, as far as I remember, you couldn't buy condoms unless you could get them from somebody who had been in Dublin or across the border:)

[Baron von Biffo]

Do people think Ireland is still sexually repressed?

On the subject of S&M, there is a monthly night held in Dublin that is very popular.

<Mod:CF - if you want the link, you will have to google it yourself >

I couldn't have gone anyway. I'll be tied up that night. :o

[Ah Well]

I couldn't have gone anyway. I'll be tied up that night. :o

Sounds like you won't be at a loose end so.

[Baron von Biffo]

Sounds like you won't be at a loose end so.

Boys only night, discussion and gentlemanly entertainment. ;)

[fluffybiscuits]

Yes, and the teachers should teach it. I happened upon a "relationships" class in a secondary school a couple of years ago by a couple of evangelical fanatics, brought in for the day.

+1

Often teenagers are often left to learn for themselves about relationships and sex with no input or very little input from the school. Now in saying that I have not looked at school curriculum for over ten years but certainly they should discuss the emotional impact of relationships and interaction, teach them about the consequences of their actions and just give them some knowledge so they dont go out into the world blind to the ways of the world.

We had a priest who came into school I remember and spoke about keep ourselves "pure" and abstaining from sex!

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

We had two nuns who appeared in our school- must have been in their sixties at least. Yup. First thing you'd think of to lecture people on sex education isn't it? Two nuns sworn to celibacy all their lives.

The poor fools said they'd answer questions submitted anonymously to them on pieces of paper. Class moment when they tipped the little box upside down and started unfolding the bits of paper, reading the written questions and pushing the ones they didnt or couldn't answer to one side. The seconds lengthened into minutes, more pieces of paper opened, read, abandoned. Must have been a full two minutes before they found any question they could even attempt to make sense of or discuss.

Poor old devils. Felt sorry for them in the end as the whole year group had obviously sent up absolutely heinously detailed and 'Not-Suitable-For-Convent' questions. Big pile of unanswered questions by their side.

Only in catholic ireland could a bunch of eejit adults think a pair of celibate nuns in their sixties were suitable experts to send to talk to adolescents about sex.

[fluffybiscuits]

We had two nuns who appeared in our school- must have been in their sixties at least. Yup. First thing you'd think of to lecture people on sex education isn't it? Two nuns sworn to celibacy all their lives.

The poor fools said they'd answer questions submitted anonymously to them on pieces of paper. Class moment when they tipped the little box upside down and started unfolding the bits of paper, reading the written questions and pushing the ones they didnt or couldn't answer to one side. The seconds lengthened into minutes, more pieces of paper opened, read, abandoned. Must have been a full two minutes before they found any question they could even attempt to make sense of or discuss.

Poor old devils. Felt sorry for them in the end as the whole year group had obviously sent up absolutely heinously detailed and 'Not-Suitable-For-Convent' questions. Big pile of unanswered questions by their side.

Only in catholic ireland could a bunch of eejit adults think a pair of celibate nuns in their sixties were suitable experts to send to talk to adolescents about sex.

Its akin to marriage guidance that a lot of priests offered people years ago when they went to get married. What does a priest apart from doing the marriage know about relationships! We can consult the holy book for ambigious stories but in real life the padre wouldnt have a bulls notions!

[jinnyjoe]

A good list, and yes they should be thought in secondary school along with;
9. doing business with the banks, and knowing they are not your friend.
10. Swimming and water safety! We are an island, a very wet one, full of rivers, and loads of kids cant swim.

Eamo, kids from 1st class up are now given swimming lessons in primary, it's compulsory.

[Fraxinus]

I remember the class being given a book in national school, around '96 or '97, on sex and relationships education. The teacher didn't comment on it bar that it wasn't for us and to bring home to our parents. Every child brought it home and I didn't know any child who ever saw or heard their parents mention that book again. Was that a trial run of sex ed or did that continue on afterwards....teachers give book to kids, kids give book to parents, kids never hear anything about book again?

[fluffybiscuits]

How many here learned about it through their parents? My mam is very liberal and we all knew the facts of life before starting secondary. My da on the other hand would clam up if we mentioned it or would say "ask your mother!! lol!

[Fraxinus]

Learned it on the playground, everyone would disclose their own bit of knowledge. Isn't it horrendous that such an important bit life education was left for kids to find out themselves. I wonder have things changed, are younger parents more open to talking about these things to their kids.

[Andrew49]

On another note, The Late Late Show has been said to be one of the driving forces behind the breaking down of sexual barriers in Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Late_Late_Show#cite_note-From_polygamy_and_orgies_to_the_Late.2C_Late_.27sc andals.27-35) . Remember the nightie incident?

I remember reading about the nightie incident but not the actual episode of the LLS. Indeed the first time I watched the Late Late would have been around 1978 - and by then I was a father of two - so kinda well versed in whatchmaycallit :) - indeed my first lesson in whatchmaycallit happened in 1967 while out on licence from the Industrial Schools aged 14 almost 15 and my teacher was also herself out on licence from a convent. A lethal combination some might say but she taught me that respecting yourself is the first step in respecting others.

My fourth or fifth lesson was in the technical college when the Science teacher drew a picture of a cloud with lightning forks striking Adam and Eve ...... and that lesson was imparted probably only a month after my first 3 lessons! While this science teacher was excellent in imparting knowledge on every scientific subject he was crap at imparting the facts of life!

I think the story of LLS breaking down sexual barriers is overstated - or just RTE inflating its own importance. I think, though, that some debates on the LLS were ground-breaking .... but only in the sense that these debates took place on air. Out in the real world they were happening already so it was just RTE catching up and going with the zeitgeist.

The Annie Murphy interview (I would call it - Ambush) sums up for me the LLS during Gay Byrne's time. Despite a few 'controversies' it always reflected a backwards Ireland.

[fluffybiscuits]

I remember reading about the nightie incident but not the actual episode of the LLS. Indeed the first time I watched the Late Late would have been around 1978 - and by then I was a father of two - so kinda well versed in whatchmaycallit :) - indeed my first lesson in whatchmaycallit happened in 1967 while out on licence from the Industrial Schools aged 14 almost 15 and my teacher was also herself out on licence from a convent. A lethal combination some might say but she taught me that respecting yourself is the first step in respecting others.

My fourth or fifth lesson was in the technical college when the Science teacher drew a picture of a cloud with lightning forks striking Adam and Eve ...... and that lesson was imparted probably only a month after my first 3 lessons! While this science teacher was excellent in imparting knowledge on every scientific subject he was crap at imparting the facts of life!

I think the story of LLS breaking down sexual barriers is overstated - or just RTE inflating its own importance. I think, though, that some debates on the LLS were ground-breaking .... but only in the sense that these debates took place on air. Out in the real world they were happening already so it was just RTE catching up and going with the zeitgeist.

The Annie Murphy interview (I would call it - Ambush) sums up for me the LLS during Gay Byrne's time. Despite a few 'controversies' it always reflected a backwards Ireland.


That interview in itself was quite a show of how Ireland was at the time. It was in between the middle of transition from a very conservative society to a society that was becoming liberal at the time.

[antiestablishmentarian]

But the question is has Irish society become more open in its sexual habits? IN some ways it has, in others it hasn't. Of course there is a lot more...variety...and openness about sex these days than before, but on the other hand, there is still a marked double standard between men and women when it comes to casual relations. A woman who has sex with different partners regularly is invariably labelled a slut, even if it is safe sex and she has no wish for a partner, when it's a single fella he's a stud and people want to emulate him. Some things have changed but not many.

[fluffybiscuits]

But the question is has Irish society become more open in its sexual habits? IN some ways it has, in others it hasn't. Of course there is a lot more...variety...and openness about sex these days than before, but on the other hand, there is still a marked double standard between men and women when it comes to casual relations. A woman who has sex with different partners regularly is invariably labelled a slut, even if it is safe sex and she has no wish for a partner, when it's a single fella he's a stud and people want to emulate him. Some things have changed but not many.

Ireland has changed its attitudes in a lot of ways. We have acceptability of homosexuality, more open sexualisation in the media and other aspects, especially music etc. In some ways though are still scared to embrace the sexual aspects of the human being. We all have emotional needs and sex in a way is linked in with this and Im not talking about unfufilled fantasy or anything like that but that embrace, the feeling of being in a union with another person. We Irish are scared of searching for this.

A quick note on casual sex. Women now seem to be empowering themselves and programmes like Deaperate Housewives and Sex in the city while aboslute ***** seem to have changed the attitudes a bit and we are moving now to a place where women who have casual sex are seen to be more accepting by society :)

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Thats true, Anti. There's still very much an Ireland of the Valley of the Squinting Windows obviously in rural areas.

And its not as if Irish women are hung up about sex, mind. I often wondered were the convent girls such riproarers between the sheets because they had seen how abstinence dries you out from watching the nuns:)

Irish society was very open about sex before the virus came down the gangplank of the ferry from Wales and sex suddenly become dirty and relegated to babymaking.

I was surprised some years ago to read of the custom each spring/early summer where the young people on Booley had a day where the parents cleared off out of the way and the booleys (temporary dwellings used by those minding the cattle or sheep as they grazed the new grass) were trysting places for the unmarried- then again marriage didn't seem to be such a formality except where dowries were concerned. Divorce existed certainly and I am certain that women had much more legal rights under Brehon law than they ever did more recently for near on a thousand years under the Taliban.

[antiestablishmentarian]

Thats true, Anti. There's still very much an Ireland of the Valley of the Squinting Windows obviously in rural areas.

And its not as if Irish women are hung up about sex, mind. I often wondered were the convent girls such riproarers between the sheets because they had seen how abstinence dries you out from watching the nuns:)

Irish society was very open about sex before the virus came down the gangplank of the ferry from Wales and sex suddenly become dirty and relegated to babymaking.

I was surprised some years ago to read of the custom each spring/early summer where the young people on Booley had a day where the parents cleared off out of the way and the booleys (temporary dwellings used by those minding the cattle or sheep as they grazed the new grass) were trysting places for the unmarried- then again marriage didn't seem to be such a formality except where dowries were concerned. Divorce existed certainly and I am certain that women had much more legal rights under Brehon law than they ever did more recently for near on a thousand years under the Taliban.
They certainly did. There's a thread here on some of their legal rights under marriage. Irish Women had far more rights under Brehon than their English sisters under the common law.
http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=8867&highlight=brehon+marriage

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

That was amazing really- in the debate over the divorce referendum I wonder how many Irish women knew that divorce had existed legally in Ireland for perhaps thousands of years?

[fluffybiscuits]

That was amazing really- in the debate over the divorce referendum I wonder how many Irish women knew that divorce had existed legally in Ireland for perhaps thousands of years?

Imagine we were a progressive society and whooosshh, thousand years later a set back for womens rights, gays etc.

[Fraxinus]

But the question is has Irish society become more open in its sexual habits? IN some ways it has, in others it hasn't. Of course there is a lot more...variety...and openness about sex these days than before, but on the other hand, there is still a marked double standard between men and women when it comes to casual relations. A woman who has sex with different partners regularly is invariably labelled a slut, even if it is safe sex and she has no wish for a partner, when it's a single fella he's a stud and people want to emulate him. Some things have changed but not many.

I think we've become more open to men having sex but unfortunately not so much women. As you rightly say, it is perfectly fine and even admirable for fellas to sleep around but it is dirty and abhorrent for women. And lets not forget, some of the most vocal critics of ladies who have sex with different partners regularly are women themselves.

[Fraxinus]

Imagine we were a progressive society and whooosshh, thousand years later a set back for womens rights, gays etc.

Apparently it wasn't as easy for a woman to get a divorce from a man as it was the other way around but nevertheless it was still much more progressive than here even 20 years ago. One of the grounds that they could seek divorce was if the husband was found to be sleeping with another man. I wonder was there more openess to homosexuality too if it was recognised like this.

[fluffybiscuits]

Apparently it wasn't as easy for a woman to get a divorce from a man as it was the other way around but nevertheless it was still much more progressive than here even 20 years ago. One of the grounds that they could seek divorce was if the husband was found to be sleeping with another man. I wonder was there more openess to homosexuality too if it was recognised like this.

In ancient Greece it was perfectly open and men engaged in same sex behaviour with other men to forge bonds especially within the army. Afterwards they would go out and marry women and raise families. The thoughts of this being done today would be abhorrent to a lot of people but alas we are not as open minded a society as the Greeks were when it comes to sex!

[Fraxinus]

In ancient Greece it was perfectly open and men engaged in same sex behaviour with other men to forge bonds especially within the army. Afterwards they would go out and marry women and raise families. The thoughts of this being done today would be abhorrent to a lot of people but alas we are not as open minded a society as the Greeks were when it comes to sex!

Mad...to think fast forward a couple of millenia and gay soldiers are banned from the US army (or at least admitting being gay):(...not sure what's the story with the 26 County Army.

[antiestablishmentarian]

Apparently it wasn't as easy for a woman to get a divorce from a man as it was the other way around but nevertheless it was still much more progressive than here even 20 years ago. One of the grounds that they could seek divorce was if the husband was found to be sleeping with another man. I wonder was there more openess to homosexuality too if it was recognised like this.

I couldn't say about Ireland but I know homosexuality was quite openly practised in other pre-Christian Celtic cultures (notably the Gauls) so I would hazard a guess that it was accepted in Gaelic society at least until Christian times. I'm aware this is an extremely tenuous argument but it has something to commend itself to me given the fact that the ancient Celtic societies tended to have many of the same religious/cultural practices and beliefs even as the proto-Celtic language split into different linguistic and cultural groups.

http://paganachd.com/faq/ethics.html#queerqueerqueer

[Trow]

In ancient Greece it was perfectly open and men engaged in same sex behaviour with other men to forge bonds especially within the army. Afterwards they would go out and marry women and raise families. The thoughts of this being done today would be abhorrent to a lot of people but alas we are not as open minded a society as the Greeks were when it comes to sex!

Phaedrus, in Plato's Symposium, on the power of male sexual relationships to improve bravery in the military:
... he would prefer to die many deaths: while as for leaving the one he loves in a lurch, or not succoring him in peril, no man is such a craven that the influence of Love cannot inspire him with a courage that makes him equal to the bravest born.

More here...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_militaries_of_ancient_Greece

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

By Jupiter Trow you know how to make an entrance. Welcome back and glad to see that you are hale and hearty after the seaweed sandwiches...

[Trow]

By Jupiter Trow you know how to make an entrance. Welcome back and glad to see that you are hale and hearty after the seaweed sandwiches...

:) My trait two weeks either side of an Equinox [Quarter Day] you'll note.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I have noticed the calendar alright:) You wouldn't be up to these northern lads....

[fluffybiscuits]

Phaedrus, in Plato's Symposium, on the power of male sexual relationships to improve bravery in the military:
... he would prefer to die many deaths: while as for leaving the one he loves in a lurch, or not succoring him in peril, no man is such a craven that the influence of Love cannot inspire him with a courage that makes him equal to the bravest born.

More here...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_militaries_of_ancient_Greece


It just goes to show in a more open society before the advent of the cult of christianity that the world was a more open place. All of this comes back to religion making people think of sex as something that is taboo. No longer should Ireland sit back and grit its teeth thinking of itself...

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Ireland- shag yer way into the future! Thats my campaign slogan sorted.

[Trow]

Phaedrus, in Plato's Symposium, on the power of male sexual relationships to improve bravery in the military:
... he would prefer to die many deaths: while as for leaving the one he loves in a lurch, or not succoring him in peril, no man is such a craven that the influence of Love cannot inspire him with a courage that makes him equal to the bravest born.

More here...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_militaries_of_ancient_Greece


It just goes to show in a more open society before the advent of the cult of christianity that the world was a more open place. All of this comes back to religion making people think of sex as something that is taboo. No longer should Ireland sit back and grit its teeth thinking of itself...

It would appear that ''All's fair in Love and War'' according to the ancient Greeks.

[antiestablishmentarian]

Interesting that this thread has more responses on Presidential election day than the election thread itself...

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Hey- I'm a transthreader and I find that remark threadist!

[Trow]

Interesting that this thread has more responses on Presidential election day than the election thread itself...

Chuck in an eleventh hour sex scandal in relation to a Presidential candidate and watch the seismic shift.:D

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Higgins and Britney Spears any good ...?

*slides colour photos back in pocket and sidles away into the night*

[fluffybiscuits]

Sex before marriage, opinions? This is one old chestnut that came up in discussion with a friend last nignt where she told me she does'nt believe in it. I went on my usual rant about it being healthy etc etc and she thinks Im raving mad!

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I never knew a marriage certificate was also a proficiency qualification. I don't think people should marry unless they live together for at least two years beforehand. I'd have been very wary of a woman who said she didn't believe in sex before marriage as sex is a natural human desire and using it as a bargaining chip does not bode well in a union.

Sex as a commodity to be haggled over is perilously close to prostitution- or at least turning sex into a commodity. It would give a man an insight into the female's way of thinking before marriage anyway.

I can certainly understand and agree with sex being a commitment between two people and unlikely to be prudent or profitable if indulged in as a series of one night first date stands as that would seem rather empty. Its only when you have been in a relationship for a while that the sex becomes more interesting and less fraught with timidity on both sides in my experience anyway.

I think a man insisting on sex on a first date is a bad sign. Equally, a woman outlining a position where she regards access to sex as a controlling string in a relationship doesn't bode well either.

[antiestablishmentarian]

It depends on the person. In my view, it's better to wait and lose your virginity when you're mature enough and with someone who you really care for and feel secure with, rather than trying to lose it as early as possible to keep up with the fashion, that only results in real trouble down the road and can be mentally damaging for those involved, especially where drink is involved and passions 'cool' quite quickly afterwards as one sobers up. Whether you lose it in marriage or beforehand is irrelevant to me.

[morticia]

I think we've become more open to men having sex but unfortunately not so much women. As you rightly say, it is perfectly fine and even admirable for fellas to sleep around but it is dirty and abhorrent for women. And lets not forget, some of the most vocal critics of ladies who have sex with different partners regularly are women themselves.

Not sure that's entirely true...We have a series of very profitable Ross O'Carroll Kelly novels taking the mick out of male slappers, these days. Admittedly, they're written by a man, but......can't imagine most women would want anything to do with someone that slutty....think of the infection risk.

Since most women now settle down in their late twenties and early 30's, even a series of semi-serious relationships would have one put a few good notches in the bed post.

Never heard too much criticism of female promiscuity EXCEPT in pathological " my flatmate does 5 different partners in a week and I haven't had a good night's sleep in a year" type scenarios, or the "he/she is nearly 40 and should really be thinking of settling down at this stage" type stuff. Neither solely applicable to women, either.

Not to say there isn't still a double standard, but I'd have to say, the worst discrimination is in the workplace, when it is clear that you a) have a partner and b) are likely to hurt the bottom line by heading off on maternity leave a few times. Women in their late 20's and 30's tend to hit glass ceilings.

The stats for the number of female scientists, for example, stuck in the postdoc trap for ever and a day while the blokes with similar CVs get faculty positions (or senior jobs in industry), are painful. TBH, this problem is getting worse, not better.... people in all walks of life are doing longer hours and are asked for more travel... you got 2-3 kids, you can't. Simple as that.

[Fraxinus]

Not sure that's entirely true...We have a series of very profitable Ross O'Carroll Kelly novels taking the mick out of male slappers, these days. Admittedly, they're written by a man, but......can't imagine most women would want anything to do with someone that slutty....think of the infection risk.

Since most women now settle down in their late twenties and early 30's, even a series of semi-serious relationships would have one put a few good notches in the bed post.

Never heard too much criticism of female promiscuity EXCEPT in pathological " my flatmate does 5 different partners in a week and I haven't had a good night's sleep in a year" type scenarios, or the "he/she is nearly 40 and should really be thinking of settling down at this stage" type stuff. Neither solely applicable to women, either.

Not to say there isn't still a double standard, but I'd have to say, the worst discrimination is in the workplace, when it is clear that you a) have a partner and b) are likely to hurt the bottom line by heading off on maternity leave a few times. Women in their late 20's and 30's tend to hit glass ceilings.

The stats for the number of female scientists, for example, stuck in the postdoc trap for ever and a day while the blokes with similar CVs get faculty positions (or senior jobs in industry), are painful. TBH, this problem is getting worse, not better.... people in all walks of life are doing longer hours and are asked for more travel... you got 2-3 kids, you can't. Simple as that.

I think it's mostly women that read Ross O'Carroll Kelly but anyway I'm going by what I know of my peer group and as far as most lads I know were concerned scoring regularly was seen as an achievement to be proud of....slowly people are starting to settle down. The other side of the coin then is when a girl is assaulted and I heard this recently about an incident in the area last year, "oh maybe she lead him on". I remember a rape or assault case in Kerry as well a few years ago when a woman was taken advantage off when she was passed out and some of the most vocal critics of the lady were other women...she recieved some vile abuse.

I don't disagree on the workplace issue.

[fluffybiscuits]

I agree on the workplace issue

On the issue of the rape victims there is this sense that men do feel they were lead on but that is almost never the case. Women are entitled to dress how they feel and if men are stimulated by such visual stimuli they should learn to control themselves and their impulses.

[fluffybiscuits]

Met my cousin last night, a very interesting person he is too. Lets call him Barry just to save hassle and not use real names. Barry was a woman and anatomically still is but identifies as a man so we use her male name. During a discussion last night he told me about the hassles he faces and because he has a learning difficulty he cant transition to being a man fully anatomically and it breaks his heart, This Christmas he is going to his aunts house and she still uses his old female name which gets on his wick . During the course of the conversation though he told me he has the ability to fall in love with anyone and has gone out with women and men over the years and has slept with both. He never looks at looks but personality, something I was amazed with as I had presumed rightly or wrongly that most people went on the basis of looks. Am I wrong?...Are looks the first factor in deciding a potential mate?

[fluffybiscuits]

Just been reading about a sauna that has opened in Shannon to cater for the needs of swingers. What say ye on the topic of swinging? Women in work had a conversation about it today and the comments ranged from "that is digusting" to "they are all in need of help , seriously". Is there some repressed Catholic guilt there? While swinging is not to everyones cup of tea there is the new phenomena of cuckolding , watching one partner having sex with other people which Psychology Today wrote a brief article on (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/women-who-stray/201006/kinky-cuckolding-fetish-goes-mainstream).

[PaddyJoe]

Just been reading about a sauna that has opened in Shannon to cater for the needs of swingers. What say ye on the topic of swinging? Women in work had a conversation about it today and the comments ranged from "that is digusting" to "they are all in need of help , seriously". Is there some repressed Catholic guilt there? While swinging is not to everyones cup of tea there is the new phenomena of cuckolding , watching one partner having sex with other people which Psychology Today wrote a brief article on (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/women-who-stray/201006/kinky-cuckolding-fetish-goes-mainstream).

Swinging? That went out in the seventies. Surely there's a cool new 21st century term for that sort of carry on?
:D

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

'They are sex people, Lynn' (Alan Partridge)

[antiestablishmentarian]

Just been reading about a sauna that has opened in Shannon to cater for the needs of swingers. What say ye on the topic of swinging? Women in work had a conversation about it today and the comments ranged from "that is digusting" to "they are all in need of help , seriously". Is there some repressed Catholic guilt there? While swinging is not to everyones cup of tea there is the new phenomena of cuckolding , watching one partner having sex with other people which Psychology Today wrote a brief article on (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/women-who-stray/201006/kinky-cuckolding-fetish-goes-mainstream).

Don't knock anything til you've tried it I suppose.

[5intheface]

Swinging? That went out in the seventies. Surely there's a cool new 21st century term for that sort of carry on?
:D

I have a mate who lives near a forest where nocturnal activities are carried out. He was referring to those attending as 'Under Forties'.

I finally asked him to explain the term and he referred me to the shipping map. :)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Xm8G1_QJ39o/TtAM3R67ynI/AAAAAAAAFDQ/1HkuBPnphXE/s1600/map_region_shipping_areas.jpg

:eek:

[Saoirse go Deo]

"Swinging" or whatever certainly wouldnt be for me. Wouldn't have any interest in sex with random strangers if I was in a relationship and the idea of someone I'm in a relationship with having sex with random strangers is repulsive to me.

[fluffybiscuits]

"Swinging" or whatever certainly wouldnt be for me. Wouldn't have any interest in sex with random strangers if I was in a relationship and the idea of someone I'm in a relationship with having sex with random strangers is repulsive to me.

What about one night stands, where do you stand on that?

[PaddyJoe]

What about one night stands, where do you stand on that?
Chance would be a fine thing:D

[fluffybiscuits]

Chance would be a fine thing:D

Yer bold ;) :p

[Justin Casey]

Gain on Top – "Too Sexy"

[fluffybiscuits]

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/love-sex/crossdressing-im-a-straight-man-who-dresses-as-a-woman-and-im-looking-for-love-3094638.html

Was not too sure about adding this to this thread as cross dressing involves a lot of non sexual contact and non sexual aspects.

[Saoirse go Deo]

What about one night stands, where do you stand on that?

Only if they are reasonably good looking! :D

However the last one utterly ruined my (white) duvet and sheets - fake tan stained them, looked like **** tbh! Felt like sending her a dry cleaners bill :mad:

However I think sex with someone you care about and are in a relationship with is much better than the one night stand variety... Shame I'm single!

[Fraxinus]

Not sure if it was already brought up but I recently came across reasons why sex became taboo in the Church's and "orthodox" Chritianity's eyes...and now centuries later it's still fuking up people's minds.
I will have to do more reading on it but apparently in the early days of Christianity there were loads of Christian sects, some radically different from the other. There was an effort among some to centralise church power and to establish an orthodox, organised religion so they began a campaign of establishing dogma and what was acceptable and what wasn't. You hear about this in any of the docu's on the lost gospels...the reason they were lost was that they were viewed as heresy and didn't fit into traditional church teaching.

Anyway, one of the main sects which was viewed as a threat and deemed heretics were the Gnostics. Now, I don't know if it was all Gnostics or some, but they were of the opinion that sex could bring people closer to god...it was an extremely spiritual act and even ritual to them, where in the act the persons could be at one with god and universe and gain superior enlightenment and all that. But those trying to create an orthodoxy viewed this with contempt because one could never be on the same level as god and they didn't like what they saw as the elitist search for knowledge they associated with the gnostics and the notion of achieving a spiritual connection with God outside the watchful eye of church teaching. Apparently the Síle na Gigs are Gnostic symbols...very common in Ireland compared to the rest of Europe, so maybe there were Gnostic links here in those early Christian days.

There could be truth to this because supposedly the first to actually bring Christianity to Ireland was a man called Pelagius who was later condemned a heretic and was an arch enemy of Augustine. He dismissed original sin and the notion that salvation could only be got through the holy church.

[C. Flower]

Not sure if it was already brought up but I recently came across reasons why sex became taboo in the Church's and "orthodox" Chritianity's eyes...and now centuries later it's still fuking up people's minds.
I will have to do more reading on it but apparently in the early days of Christianity there were loads of Christian sects, some radically different from the other. There was an effort among some to centralise church power and to establish an orthodox, organised religion so they began a campaign of establishing dogma and what was acceptable and what wasn't. You hear about this in any of the docu's on the lost gospels...the reason they were lost was that they were viewed as heresy and didn't fit into traditional church teaching.

Anyway, one of the main sects which was viewed as a threat and deemed heretics were the Gnostics. Now, I don't know if it was all Gnostics or some, but they were of the opinion that sex could bring people closer to god...it was an extremely spiritual act and even ritual to them, where in the act the persons could be at one with god and universe and gain superior enlightenment and all that. But those trying to create an orthodoxy viewed this with contempt because one could never be on the same level as god and they didn't like what they saw as the elitist search for knowledge they associated with the gnostics and the notion of achieving a spiritual connection with God outside the watchful eye of church teaching. Apparently the Síle na Gigs are Gnostic symbols...very common in Ireland compared to the rest of Europe, so maybe there were Gnostic links here in those early Christian days.

There could be truth to this because supposedly the first to actually bring Christianity to Ireland was a man called Pelagius who was later condemned a heretic and was an arch enemy of Augustine. He dismissed original sin and the notion that salvation could only be got through the holy church.

Celibacy in the Church had a lot to do with accumulation of property and power - the same as marital "faithfulness" had. Who gets to inherit what.

The Irish, before the famine, had a reputation for wild partying - priests pulled their hair out over what happened at Patterns, for example.

The heavily controlling Church in Ireland had a lot to do with rigid and severe social control over a society in which extreme poverty, combined with resentment at control by England, was a ticking time bomb. And also, as the land could not support the population, and manufacturing had been ruined by colonial policy, celibacy, both of large numbers of men and women in religious orders, and "bachelor farmers" was a means of keeping the population down and conserving farms to pass on to the next generation.

[ZeroWedge]

Celibacy in the Church had a lot to do with accumulation of property and power - the same as marital "faithfulness" had. Who gets to inherit what.Sometimes I wonder how much celibacy was actually practised by the hierarchy, during the long history of the roman catholic church. For most of the last 2000 years, bishops and cardinals were extremely powerful people, who could easily keep their affairs secret. There was no media or investigative reporters to expose scandals, and the vast bulk of the population were illiterate peasants who would have no idea whats going on the bishops palace.

Under such circumstances I would say there were a lot of bishops fornicating and fathering offspring with various servant girls. The whole Roman Catholic religion is built on lies and secrecy, so its not unreasonable to assume that the powerful clerics were breaking their own rules whenever they felt like it.

Celibacy is never really a choice. Males remain celibate because they have no opportunity to mate. If presented with an opportunity they will nearly always succumb to powerful natural urges. The male sex drive is not really controllable when it has the means and the opportunity to mate. Its a force of nature that no man can resist. Bishops, cardinals and popes would have had such opportunities. I suspect they used those opportunities much more so than is known.

[Fraxinus]

Celibacy in the Church had a lot to do with accumulation of property and power - the same as marital "faithfulness" had. Who gets to inherit what.

The Irish, before the famine, had a reputation for wild partying - priests pulled their hair out over what happened at Patterns, for example.

The heavily controlling Church in Ireland had a lot to do with rigid and severe social control over a society in which extreme poverty, combined with resentment at control by England, was a ticking time bomb. And also, as the land could not support the population, and manufacturing had been ruined by colonial policy, celibacy, both of large numbers of men and women in religious orders, and "bachelor farmers" was a means of keeping the population down and conserving farms to pass on to the next generation.

And the Church as we know it never assumed its all controlling role until the Famine. As you say, economic, political and social problems combined to drive an already poverty stricken population to famine and the church stepped in and blamed it on sinfullness...which of course the poor peasant believed. The population pre famine was apparently so large that a parish preist had huge areas to cover so the church never had control on the ground...post famine of course all that changed along with increasing number of people joining the clergy.

All that above was very much in keeping with the central authority from Rome under that guidance of a Bishop Cullen, who's first name I can't remember. Centuries before that the Irish church was viewed very much as a law unto it's own and Rome viewed it as renegade. Brehon law, with divorce and the right for "illegitimate" children to inheritance, was never undermined by the church until the Gaelic order went into decline. I think the Church even supported Henry II kingship of Ireland because of the lack of conformism within the Irish church.

[Fraxinus]

Sometimes I wonder how much celibacy was actually practised by the hierarchy, during the long history of the roman catholic church. For most of the last 2000 years, bishops and cardinals were extremely powerful people, who could easily keep their affairs secret. There was no media or investigative reporters to expose scandals, and the vast bulk of the population were illiterate peasants who would have no idea whats going on the bishops palace.

Under such circumstances I would say there were a lot of bishops fornicating and fathering offspring with various servant girls. The whole Roman Catholic religion is built on lies and secrecy, so its not unreasonable to assume that the powerful clerics were breaking their own rules whenever they felt like it.

Celibacy is never really a choice. Males remain celibate because they have no opportunity to mate. If presented with an opportunity they will nearly always succumb to powerful natural urges. The male sex drive is not really controllable when it has the means and the opportunity to mate. Its a force of nature that no man can resist. Bishops, cardinals and popes would have had such opportunities. I suspect they used those opportunities much more so than is known.

Absolutely agree...I think the one's that actually managed to remain celibate would be in a minority.

[fluffybiscuits]

Sometimes I wonder how much celibacy was actually practised by the hierarchy, during the long history of the roman catholic church. For most of the last 2000 years, bishops and cardinals were extremely powerful people, who could easily keep their affairs secret. There was no media or investigative reporters to expose scandals, and the vast bulk of the population were illiterate peasants who would have no idea whats going on the bishops palace.

Under such circumstances I would say there were a lot of bishops fornicating and fathering offspring with various servant girls. The whole Roman Catholic religion is built on lies and secrecy, so its not unreasonable to assume that the powerful clerics were breaking their own rules whenever they felt like it.

Celibacy is never really a choice. Males remain celibate because they have no opportunity to mate. If presented with an opportunity they will nearly always succumb to powerful natural urges. The male sex drive is not really controllable when it has the means and the opportunity to mate. Its a force of nature that no man can resist. Bishops, cardinals and popes would have had such opportunities. I suspect they used those opportunities much more so than is known.

Sex is a powerful driving force for man, from feeling the draw of siren whom we meet we get pulled in. One of mans primary aims in life is to reproduce and this drives his urges but as we grow as a culture we overcome these instinctive processes by logic and reason (how very vulcan says you :p ;) ) .


Only if they are reasonably good looking! :D

However the last one utterly ruined my (white) duvet and sheets - fake tan stained them, looked like **** tbh! Felt like sending her a dry cleaners bill :mad:

However I think sex with someone you care about and are in a relationship with is much better than the one night stand variety... Shame I'm single!


Casual sex is always good if you have at least a bond with the person and has been used by many a person I know as an extension for friendship as well as being a mistake. One girl who Im good friends with made the mistake of falling in love at 18 with an older bloke and for the last ten years he has become the root of all her troubles (she is 28 nearly) and she cant get over him. On the other hand a friend of mine meets up with another bloke every month, the bloke is married to a woman but the wife understands "he has needs" and she lets him off the hook and everyone seems happy. One other guy I know has a buddy he hooks up with every weekend and they are happy that way. Few drinks, a take away , a movie and into bed and they are happy as they both describe it as the extension of their friendship. One night stands always left me with that empty feeling years ago but they spurred me on to look for something deeper and I found love with my other half whom I love dearly. A cracking lad if ever there was one and to be honest someone I would lay down my life for if I had to :)

[fluffybiscuits]

At the top of the Amazon charts at the moment is the novel "Fifty Shades of Grey". In a nutshell it tells the story of a woman whom engages in a relationship on a BDSM basis with her employer . The book is "whipping" up a storm and a lot of attention. People are speaking about the novel in hushed tones and laughing naughtily as if it were some sort of unspeakable secret they could share but what does this say for ourselves as a nation? Ireland under the auspices of the Catholic church for years was sexually repressed, women thrown incarcerated in homes for having children outside of wedlock and condoms banned until the 90's. These repressive attitudes have lead to Ireland to being a backwater when it comes to sex hence the book being spoken about in hushed tones . Im not for one moment suggesting Ireland send itself into a frenzy of orgies but look into itself and cast of these shackles. Sex is liberating and holistic. It reflects on us as a person. All we have to do is to look at our attitudes here in Ireland to see that we are in a way repressed sexually.

[PaddyJoe]

At the top of the Amazon charts at the moment is the novel "Fifty Shades of Grey". In a nutshell it tells the story of a woman whom engages in a relationship on a BDSM basis with her employer . The book is "whipping" up a storm and a lot of attention. People are speaking about the novel in hushed tones and laughing naughtily as if it were some sort of unspeakable secret they could share but what does this say for ourselves as a nation? Ireland under the auspices of the Catholic church for years was sexually repressed, women thrown incarcerated in homes for having children outside of wedlock and condoms banned until the 90's. These repressive attitudes have lead to Ireland to being a backwater when it comes to sex hence the book being spoken about in hushed tones . Im not for one moment suggesting Ireland send itself into a frenzy of orgies but look into itself and cast of these shackles. Sex is liberating and holistic. It reflects on us as a person. All we have to do is to look at our attitudes here in Ireland to see that we are in a way repressed sexually.
I've heard it described as '500 pages of classic Mills & Boon with a good bit of whipping and a rake of orgasms thrown in'
:D

[fluffybiscuits]

I've heard it described as '500 pages of classic Mills & Boon with a good bit of whipping and a rake of orgasms thrown in'
:D

:D

Its like that film years ago Secretary...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0274812/

[C. Flower]

Sorry for your troubles, Maximus, but there are a lot of other forums for discussing that sort of relationship difficulty ;)

[fluffybiscuits]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Education_of_Shelby_Knox

Saw this yesterday afternoon by accident actually! Explores the interesting situation as regards the sex education in schools in Lubbock in Texas. The schools advocate absitenence much to the dismay of a young student called Shelby Knox. She tries to change this in a deeply conservative republican christian heartland. Shelby even takes up the mantle of gay rights!

[HarmlessPoorOulDivil]

Something about the submissive/domination thing, such as in 50 Shades, sits very uneasily with me.
If sex is so holistic and liberating and all the rest of it, why the need to eroticize coercion and violence? It seems to be a cultural hangover from the centuries of repression - nice girls just didn't, unless of course, they could be persuaded to. A man has needs and it's not her fault. It seems like an unhealthy underlying dynamic to me.

(Of course usual caveats apply - it's not a criticism of practitioners if consenting adults etc)

[fluffybiscuits]

Something about the submissive/domination thing, such as in 50 Shades, sits very uneasily with me.
If sex is so holistic and liberating and all the rest of it, why the need to eroticize coercion and violence? It seems to be a cultural hangover from the centuries of repression - nice girls just didn't, unless of course, they could be persuaded to. A man has needs and it's not her fault. It seems like an unhealthy underlying dynamic to me.

(Of course usual caveats apply - it's not a criticism of practitioners if consenting adults etc)

Well forced coercion and other aspects aside for some people sex takes on a completely sexual element. There are number of reasons for this but Freud theorised that we enjoy the experience of BDSM with slapping etc as harking back to when we were scolded when we were younger. Later on in life this manifests itself when people want to be smacked or other things. Over the years having been on a dating site and talking to various friends about this its quite common so much so there is club nights for those involved. It has become a lot more mainstream .

[fluffybiscuits]

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/love-sex/men-turn-to-larger-ladies-in-leaner-times-3195163.html


Men tend to prefer slimmer and younger-looking women because they appear healthier and more fertile, making them a better bet for bearing offspring. But stress can cause men to reassess their priorities, and make them treasure more homely qualities, such as a larger body size, scientists say.

[Slim Buddha]

I've heard it described as '500 pages of classic Mills & Boon with a good bit of whipping and a rake of orgasms thrown in'
:D

That is being very kind to it Paddy Joe. It is 500 pages of pure crap and it was a struggle to stay even mildly interested to the end. It was as tedious as Angela's Ashes was for me. Gruesomely boring.

[Baron von Biffo]

That is being very kind to it Paddy Joe. It is 500 pages of pure crap and it was a struggle to stay even mildly interested to the end. It was as tedious as Angela's Ashes was for me. Gruesomely boring.

Stinging in the rain.

[ZeroWedge]

At the top of the Amazon charts at the moment is the novel "Fifty Shades of Grey". In a nutshell it tells the story of a woman whom engages in a relationship on a BDSM basis with her employer . The book is "whipping" up a storm and a lot of attention. People are speaking about the novel in hushed tones and laughing naughtily as if it were some sort of unspeakable secret they could share but what does this say for ourselves as a nation? Ireland under the auspices of the Catholic church for years was sexually repressed, women thrown incarcerated in homes for having children outside of wedlock and condoms banned until the 90's. These repressive attitudes have lead to Ireland to being a backwater when it comes to sex hence the book being spoken about in hushed tones . Im not for one moment suggesting Ireland send itself into a frenzy of orgies but look into itself and cast of these shackles. Sex is liberating and holistic. It reflects on us as a person. All we have to do is to look at our attitudes here in Ireland to see that we are in a way repressed sexually.There was a huge guerilla marketing campaign to promote this book by creating fake controversy on radio shows like Moncrieff and Mooney and shilling on web forums like this one. If you werent such a regular poster Fluffy, Id suspect you were a paid shill.

Dont be fooled by fake controversy, Fluffy. Nobody gives a crap about another crappy novel. Its a PR campaign worthy of Edward Bernays and his sneaky bag of tricks.

[Slim Buddha]

Stinging in the rain.

It is a tedious tome of tiresome, trite titillation which is, at 500 odd pages, 450 pages too long for what it attempted to say. Sadly, English is, as a language, depressingly mechanical in its expression of erotica but I guess that is down to the authors.


50 Shades of Crap was a step up from Chick Lit but then again, so is an Aldi flyer.

[fluffybiscuits]

There was a huge guerilla marketing campaign to promote this book by creating fake controversy on radio shows like Moncrieff and Mooney and shilling on web forums like this one. If you werent such a regular poster Fluffy, Id suspect you were a paid shill.

Dont be fooled by fake controversy, Fluffy. Nobody gives a crap about another crappy novel. Its a PR campaign worthy of Edward Bernays and his sneaky bag of tricks.

Im not fooled at all, just cant understand the hype surrounding it. The book delves into the world of BDSM which Ireland has had a scene for years in and continues to do so. The book needed no shills, it spread by word of mouth and got popularity that way, everyone is talking about it.

[Slim Buddha]

Im not fooled at all, just cant understand the hype surrounding it. The book delves into the world of BDSM which Ireland has had a scene for years in and continues to do so. The book needed no shills, it spread by word of mouth and got popularity that way, everyone is talking about it.

Even if many are talking about how crap it is!

[fluffybiscuits]

Even if many are talking about how crap it is!

I have seen some of the passages, some of the women in work are talking about it in hushed tones but have acknowledged its crap!

[Baron von Biffo]

I have seen some of the passages, some of the women in work are talking about it in hushed tones but have acknowledged its crap!

Keep an eye out for the ones who sit down very carefully. ;)

[fluffybiscuits]

Keep an eye out for the ones who sit down very carefully. ;)

:D

[ZeroWedge]

Im not fooled at all, just cant understand the hype surrounding it.PR companies are paid to generate the "hype".


The book needed no shills, it spread by word of mouth and got popularity that way, everyone is talking about it.Thats not true. This is a very deliberate viral marketing campaign. They identify people that have large networks of friends, who people look up to. They pay them to spread the message through informal networks of friends, book clubs, coffee mornings, ann summers parties, internet forums, golf clubs, colleagues at work. Its classic viral marketing.

[Andrew49]

Nobody's been up on this thread for over a week! Celibacy vows?

[Ephilant]

Right so, celibacy it is not, but...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPayFrCOiZM&feature=related

Just wondering, is this aimed at the women or the men?

[fluffybiscuits]

A thread on thejournal made me think. Someone mentioned that they had seen a couple having sex in public in a toilet and was disgusted by it so open question, would you have sex in public? The idea appeals to me but not in the classic sense of everyone watching but in the sense that its back to nature and making love in a natural setting such as on a beach or under the stars has something very ancestral and primary about it, harking back to our days before civilsation established itself as it did now. There is a number of beaches in places around Europe where there are secluded spots for couples who wish to indulge in naturist activities or who want to have sex in public.

[Baron von Biffo]

would you have sex in public?

Thanks for asking but it's very stormy out there. ;)

[fluffybiscuits]

Thanks for asking but it's very stormy out there. ;)

You better get yer thermals on Baron :D

[Baron von Biffo]

You better get yer thermals on Baron :D

http://blog.fluidbar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/kenneth-williams.jpg

Ooh Matron!

[Andrew49]

There are several couples making love in this photo of an English park on a Saturday afternoon in 1969.

http://www.chom.com/Pics/Blogs/1004289/18/HydeParkFreeConcert05_07_1969.jpg

[fluffybiscuits]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/oct/21/my-boyfriend-wears-womens-underwear

Problem pages are not normally my thing but this caught my eye. Men who wear womens clothing is becoming more and more open now with the vast majority of men being straight. A psychologist I head read about said its an expression of the femenine side of us. As Carl Jung theorised, we have our male and female side with the female side being repressed.

[fluffybiscuits]

Emer Costello, Euro MEP has taken umbrage with the number of sex shops in Dublin and thinks they should be subject to tighter licensing inspections. Are we still in the 60s? Hang ups about sex? Abortion illegal?

http://www.thejournal.ie/regulation-adult-stores-692929-Nov2012/

[fluffybiscuits]

Donal Fallon with a great article on the history on the sex shops in Ireland

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/sex-shops-ireland-706612-Dec2012/

[fluffybiscuits]

http://www.thejournal.ie/trademark-application-sex-toy-three-balls-759721-Jan2013/


A EUROPEAN UNION court has rejected a bid by a German company to seek an EU-wide trademark for an unusually-shaped line of sex toys.

Bremen-based FunFactory GmbH had sought a trademark on a vibrating product for women which eschewed the traditional shape (described as “rod-like” by the General Court of the EU) in favour of a structure with three spheres

[fluffybiscuits]

Ha thought might give this a light note seen as Im back on the dating scene.

Been single for three weeks now (I move quickly and no Im not on the rebound) but got interested in the new dating apps! One caught my eye called growlr...

Do you know how hard it is just to meet someone for a beer! So far they are all either

-Attached
-Striaght and married
-Closeted
-Have some fetish
-Are just too camp for my liking
-Lying
-Chasing their cuir isteach! (I dont mind the latter but they need to be more upfront!)

I was asked by one lad to send a picture of me wearing a watch (and just a watch!!) and another wearing farming gear!!!


LOL!!! So much for meeting an average lad for a pint , chat and whatever .....!!!