What Should Be in the United Left Alliance Programme ?

[C. Flower]

There's a lot of discussion of the ULA at the moment, and one of the questions is what should be in the programme of the ULA. Some people are drafting documents to give to the Steering Committee.

The content of the Programme clearly isn't going to be settled here, but it's a perfectly good place to discuss, propose and debate possible policies and aims for the ULA.

[Sam Lord]

I'll help if they abandon Trotskyism ... otherwise it is a doomed project. :D

[TotalMayhem]

it is a doomed project. :D

While capitalism is in its death throes, resurrecting the rotten corpse of socialism cannot be the answer. ;)

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

'Lets go and support the Occupy movement instead'.

Thunderous fuppin' applause all round.

[unspecific]

Let's have something popularly drafted and popularly ratified where the component parties' whips are ordered to stand down for the vote.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

And drop the insistence on revisiting Trotsky and Lenin's philosophical shopping lists. Goldman Sachs think Trotsky and Lenin are partners in the London office.

[Sam Lord]

While capitalism is in its death throes, resurrecting the rotten corpse of socialism cannot be the answer. ;)

You have another option Total? Please tell ...

[C. Flower]

I'll help if they abandon Trotskyism ... otherwise it is a doomed project. :D

I'd suggest that you find out what Trotskyism is, before deciding on that. This would involve reading something written by Trotsky. You could try "In Defence of October" - it's only a short speech, but would give you a bit of an idea of his thinking.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1929/09/fi-b.htm

[Sam Lord]

I'd suggest that you find out what Trotskyism is, before deciding on that. This would involve reading something written by Trotsky.

:eek::eek:

You mean to tell me that the million and one sects he spawned all got it wrong? I've been exposed to their unfortunate literature for decades. Infiltrating, wrecking and splitting ... Trotskyism 101.

[C. Flower]

:eek::eek:

You mean to tell me that the million and one sects he spawned all got it wrong? I've been exposed to their unfortunate literature for decades. Infiltrating, wrecking and splitting ... Trotskyism 101.

But you've never read anything by Trotsky.

:)

[Sam Lord]

But you've never read anything by Trotsky.

:)

As I've told you before. I've never read Mein Kampf but I know what a fascist is.

[C. Flower]

As I've told you before. I've never read Mein Kampf but I know what a fascist is.

Any chance of you posting on topic ?

( You might ask yourself btw, why it's so obvious that you haven't read any Trotsky. )

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I'd suggest that you find out what Trotskyism is, before deciding on that. This would involve reading something written by Trotsky. You could try "In Defence of October" - it's only a short speech, but would give you a bit of an idea of his thinking.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1929/09/fi-b.htm

I actually clicked on that link, skimmed down through it and came to the conclusion that the most useful function Trotsky ever performed was as an icepick stand in Mexico City.

It is political poetry and very much of its era but I think trying to look at the world now through the eyes (sorry Leon, 'eye') of Trotsky and Lenin is as pointless as trying to define the world now through Henry Ford's eyes.

The 'means of production' are more abstract now than in their day. There are no factory gates at which to pass out pamphlets in order to mobilise the proletariat. The bourgeoisie don't want revolution- they want to be left alone in the evenings to watch telly.

[C. Flower]

I actually clicked on that link, skimmed down through it and came to the conclusion that the most useful function Trotsky ever performed was as an icepick stand in Mexico City.

It is political poetry and very much of its era but I think trying to look at the world now through the eyes (sorry Leon, 'eye') of Trotsky and Lenin is as pointless as trying to define the world now through Henry Ford's eyes.

The 'means of production' are more abstract now than in their day. There are no factory gates at which to pass out pamphlets in order to mobilise the proletariat. The bourgeoisie don't want revolution- they want to be left alone in the evenings to watch telly.

Hasn't lost his ability to seriously annoy the forces of reaction so. However, the topic of the thread is possible ULA policies and programme and I would appreciate a return to topic.

[C. Flower]

Let's have something popularly drafted and popularly ratified where the component parties' whips are ordered to stand down for the vote.

For example, should it be a party committed to socialism ? committed to the end of capitalism?

Is there a need for a "transitional programme" of practical demands ? And if so, what should be in it ?

[fluffybiscuits]

What should be in the programme?

Analyse why there is no cohesiveness within the whole ULA and if they want to function in the long term would it be worthwhile to form a long term merger and have a ULA party and not just a loose alliance? They are going to need to challenge S(h)inners who will be the next party in govt as Labour are politically whoring themselves to FG and FF basically well dead in the water and there is no one else out there.

[Jolly Red Giant]

CF - I think the responses that have been added to this thread demonstrate that an internet forum is not the place to raise the question of what should be in the ULA programme. Particularly given the fact that most of the people who have commented actually want the ULA to fail.

[fluffybiscuits]

CF - I think the responses that have been added to this thread demonstrate that an internet forum is not the place to raise the question of what should be in the ULA programme. Particularly given the fact that most of the people who have commented actually want the ULA to fail.

JRG I can say for myself I certainly dont want it to fail and have discussed what should be in it. Antiestab. is certainly valid in his criticisms and as for the rest well I think they have the interests at heart. I want the ULA to succeed, sink the opposition (especially SF) but they lack bite. They are all mouth and no trousers but their heart is in the right place :)...

[C. Flower]

CF - I think the responses that have been added to this thread demonstrate that an internet forum is not the place to raise the question of what should be in the ULA programme. Particularly given the fact that most of the people who have commented actually want the ULA to fail.


If I was in the ULA I would be seriously worried if there was no hostility to the project.

The ULA has been around for a year now, with no visible movement (above the water line) towards having a programme. However I'm aware that both individuals and groups are giving it thought and working on their ideas.

At this stage, when there is no formal process started within the ULA for drawing up a programme, open, exploratory, discussion, whether friendly or not, can hardly do any harm and would be a contribution to the overall debate.

[Griska]

CF - I think the responses that have been added to this thread demonstrate that an internet forum is not the place to raise the question of what should be in the ULA programme. Particularly given the fact that most of the people who have commented actually want the ULA to fail.

That is a preposterous response. This is a political discussion forum and to wade in with the above comment because you are not happy with the comments people have submitted is an indictment on you and the ULA.

The reality is, the ULA was a recruitment mechanism for both the SP and the SWP during the election. The election is over and quelle surprise, the project has stalled.
Instead of trying to stifle people from pointing out that the emperor is indeed bollock naked, you should encourage your organisation to either get it together or fold.
I suspect you will find that a great big fold is on the cards.

[Dr. FIVE]

Rubbish, I made the point the elected reps have been very weak getting the message across to anyone outside, dire in fact. The media are extremely hostile towards them but they needn't bother sometimes. See, Collins on Drivetime recently re the household charge.

I'm behind (almost) any outsider party succeeding. There is a massive floating vote up for grabs but beating the same drum, badly won't help their cause

[Jolly Red Giant]

That is a preposterous response. This is a political discussion forum and to wade in with the above comment because you are not happy with the comments people have submitted is an indictment on you and the ULA.
Point out one single comment of substance that is in any way progressive in discussing a programme for the ULA - the purpose that CF intended with the OP.

[fluffybiscuits]

Point out one single comment of substance that is in any way progressive in discussing a programme for the ULA - the purpose that CF intended with the OP.

We have identified the issues that the ULA have and need to resolve. Its constructive criticism mate!...

[C. Flower]

Point out one single comment of substance that is in any way progressive in discussing a programme for the ULA - the purpose that CF intended with the OP.

And I have asked people to post on topic. So, if you would like to set a good example...

[Griska]

..................tumbleweed...................... ................

I think the lack of concrete suggestions reflects the lack of faith people have in the ULA getting it's act together.

[fluffybiscuits]

..................tumbleweed...................... ................

I think the lack of concrete suggestions reflects the lack of faith people have in the ULA getting it's act together.

Well what we wrote were very strong ideas that could be implemented and its mostly common sense. They are very divided and it would appear that there is a power vaccum of sorts within the group. If they were a political party they would be a lot more cohesive, that might be the route they should take as they know in their heart and soul that Shinners is going to be unfortuntely in the next govt so we need a good strong left leaning party in opposition.