Are Irish people apathetic to a United Ireland?

[fluffybiscuits]

Looking at this article from up the North (its a few months old) it shows that most Irish Catholics are not in favour of a United Ireland and want to remain part of the UK

http://www.thejournal.ie/waning-support-for-united-ireland-among-northern-catholics-157651-Jun2011/


Some 52 per cent of Northern Catholics said they would prefer the region to remain associated with Britain – more than twice the figure five years ago before the economic crisis.

Between the financial crisis and the tales of woe we hear from Northern Ireland is it easy to become apathetic? I never give the place a second thought tbh,,,,

[oldmanriver]

No! I don't think people in the south are apathetic to a UI its what the vast, vast majority want, but most of us also want a roof over our heads and the children well fed and cared for. Its a question of priorities and at the moment a UI not only isn't a top priority it shouldn't be.

Thanks to FF and the banks its not financially viable and won't be for some time but that doesn't mean people will stop wanting it or when the situation improves jump at the chance to make it happen democratically.

[fluffybiscuits]

I think a lot of other people would disagree. They may claim that finances dpnt and should not come into it.

[5intheface]

Looking at this article from up the North (its a few months old) it shows that most Irish Catholics are not in favour of a United Ireland and want to remain part of the UK

http://www.thejournal.ie/waning-support-for-united-ireland-among-northern-catholics-157651-Jun2011/



Between the financial crisis and the tales of woe we hear from Northern Ireland is it easy to become apathetic? I never give the place a second thought tbh,,,,

This is the NI Life and Times Survey, a survey that continues to gauge support for SF at under 10%. :D Charlatans.

It's straight from the normalisation dept in the Northern Ireland Office and is concocted on a regular basis with no evidence to back up any of its claims.

So the majority of Cathoilics in the north want to stay British but I've never met one, ever. That doesn't mean there aren't but I know many Protestants who feel Irish but according to the NILTS, they don't exist. Don't even bring into it the large number of Republicans who will never vote in any British election.

No doubt these Castle Catholics I've never met vote SF and SDLP because they are scared of being murdered.

They produce this dung and yet can't explain why parties who support a UI take over 40% of votes in every election.

It's 5hite, that's why.

[oldmanriver]

I think a lot of other people would disagree. They may claim that finances dpnt and should not come into it.

And in theory they're right but that's the difference between theory and reality. In the real world people have to make sure their children are housed, fed and clothed properly. People are in danger of being repossessed, many young people are leaving the country and maybe most of them are going to live and work in England.

The world is smaller than even, there is 24 hour news and everyone not only has finger top news they also have credit card and mortgage to pay.

A UI matters but not more than living here, having a job and paying the bills. Its not as if its going to go away...:)

[fluffybiscuits]

This is the NI Life and Times Survey, a survey that continues to gauge support for SF at under 10%. :D Charlatans.

It's straight from the normalisation dept in the Northern Ireland Office and is concocted on a regular basis with no evidence to back up any of its claims.

So the majority of Cathoilics in the north want to stay British but I've never met one, ever. That doesn't mean there aren't but I know many Protestants who feel Irish but according to the NILTS, they don't exist. Don't even bring into it the large number of Republicans who will never vote in any British election.

No doubt these Castle Catholics I've never met vote SF and SDLP because they are scared of being murdered.

They produce this dung and yet can't explain why parties who support a UI take over 40% of votes in every election.

It's 5hite, that's why.
However it is still only 40 per cent, its not a majority in favour of a UI,50 odd per cent are still in favour of ties with the UK are they not>?

[5intheface]

However it is still only 40 per cent, its not a majority in favour of a UI,50 odd per cent are still in favour of ties with the UK are they not>?

It probably is at least 50% but that's not what the NILTS tells us, that's 50% of everyone not of the Catholics.

If you take a look at their figures for Catholics, then continual elections must indicate that huge numers of Protestants are voting for SF and the SDLP, it's ridiculous, beyond ridiculous.

Have a search for the questions they ask too. :D

Would you like a United Ireland and have child abuse legalised?

I'm stretching it I know but that's the class of option.

[fluffybiscuits]

It probably is at least 50% but that's not what the NILTS tells us, that's 50% of everyone not of the Catholics.

If you take a look at their figures for Catholics, then continual elections must indicate that huge numers of Protestants are voting for SF and the SDLP, it's ridiculous, beyond ridiculous.

Have a search for the questions they ask too. :D

Would you like a United Ireland and have child abuse legalised?

I'm stretching it I know but that's the class of option.

Ah very clever I can see where you are coming from! Perhaps its the way they phrase the question in the poll that can lead to skewed opinions perhaps?

[5intheface]

Ah very clever I can see where you are coming from! Perhaps its the way they phrase the question in the poll that can lead to skewed opinions perhaps?

That and the fact that nordies are notoriously dishonest when stopped in the street and questioned on politics and the fact that the NIO are correlating the results. :D

I should also point out that I have rarely heard any Catholics talk about a burning desire for a UI and certainly not of late. I think sometimes that resentment to British rule is confused with being wrapped in a tricolour and listening to the wolfetones with a tear in the eye, things were usually a little too real for that nonsense.

[Lapsedmethodist]

That and the fact that nordies are notoriously dishonest when stopped in the street and questioned on politics and the fact that the NIO are correlating the results. :D

I should also point out that I have rarely heard any Catholics talk about a burning desire for a UI and certainly not of late. I think sometimes that resentment to British rule is confused with being wrapped in a tricolour and
listening to the wolfetones with a tear in the eye, things were usually a little too real for that nonsense.

Come-all-ye's where listened to in semi-secret in thousands of Protestant homes throughout the North. A guilty pleasure. :)

[fluffybiscuits]

That and the fact that nordies are notoriously dishonest when stopped in the street and questioned on politics and the fact that the NIO are correlating the results. :D

I should also point out that I have rarely heard any Catholics talk about a burning desire for a UI and certainly not of late. I think sometimes that resentment to British rule is confused with being wrapped in a tricolour and listening to the wolfetones with a tear in the eye, things were usually a little too real for that nonsense.

The NI people are a private people I imagine and the siege mentality that may exist in some people after being under occupation for a number of years may lead to them when being asked if they want a UI to thinking they are under questioning! So how would someone get an impartial poll ?

[C. Flower]

The NI people are a private people I imagine and the siege mentality that may exist in some people after being under occupation for a number of years may lead to them when being asked if they want a UI to thinking they are under questioning! So how would someone get an impartial poll ?

Your "no borders" solution might be the answer, fluffybiscuits.

[morticia]

I know many Protestants who feel Irish but according to the NILTS, they don't exist. Don't even bring into it the large number of Republicans who will never vote in any British election.
They produce this dung and yet can't explain why parties who support a UI take over 40% of votes in every election.

It's 5hite, that's why.

That cheers me up, thanks! Hilarious...

Re Protestants, I'm assuming you're referring to the NI flavour?? Not aware of too many in Dublin who would feel anything other than Irish (unless, of course, they're just off the plane from the UK/Germany/Scandinavia/Canada etc).

I also don't see how we can avoid an UI..... the willingness of the current English Westminster elite to continue footing the NI bill for billions when virtually no-one outside England votes Tory, cannot be taken for granted for ever. I also think Cammy's concessions to NI (allowing them to harmonize the drink driving limit with the South, talking about lower NI corpo tax rates) are pointing in a certain direction. Significant further cuts, or the Scots cutting loose from the UK, or both, might result in even the Unionists deciding to vote with their wallets, not their old allegiances. And the South may eventually be better placed to pay the bills than the UK.

Add PFI to the UK national debt, and you're looking at levels of debt/GDP in excess of our own. And the QE is stoking serious inflation... yeah, it's a good way out of a debt crisis, but only when you stop racking up debt. Continue, and your @rse gets bitten, big time.

How long can they pay for peace in the North???

Frankly, I wonder if the eventual solution will involve a semi-federal Ireland (Stormont assembly retained), and some loose and meaningless re-entry to the Commonwealth as a sop to the Unionists. Will mean nothing re power structures; look at Canada.... QEII is still on the coins, but UK citizens need work visas just like everybody else.....

Speculation....and maybe we'll have to translate "Londonderry" into Irish to keep everyone happy.......

[5intheface]

That cheers me up, thanks! Hilarious...

Re Protestants, I'm assuming you're referring to the NI flavour??

I am and of course I'm using both religious terms as shorthand for the 2 communities as opposed to any significant adherence to any particular faith.

[5intheface]

Speculation....and maybe we'll have to translate "Londonderry" into Irish to keep everyone happy.......

Maybe we could have the county name revert to County Coleraine? :)

[fluffybiscuits]

That cheers me up, thanks! Hilarious...

Re Protestants, I'm assuming you're referring to the NI flavour?? Not aware of too many in Dublin who would feel anything other than Irish (unless, of course, they're just off the plane from the UK/Germany/Scandinavia/Canada etc).

I also don't see how we can avoid an UI..... the willingness of the current English Westminster elite to continue footing the NI bill for billions when virtually no-one outside England votes Tory, cannot be taken for granted for ever. I also think Cammy's concessions to NI (allowing them to harmonize the drink driving limit with the South, talking about lower NI corpo tax rates) are pointing in a certain direction. Significant further cuts, or the Scots cutting loose from the UK, or both, might result in even the Unionists deciding to vote with their wallets, not their old allegiances. And the South may eventually be better placed to pay the bills than the UK.

Add PFI to the UK national debt, and you're looking at levels of debt/GDP in excess of our own. And the QE is stoking serious inflation... yeah, it's a good way out of a debt crisis, but only when you stop racking up debt. Continue, and your @rse gets bitten, big time.

How long can they pay for peace in the North???

Frankly, I wonder if the eventual solution will involve a semi-federal Ireland (Stormont assembly retained), and some loose and meaningless re-entry to the Commonwealth as a sop to the Unionists. Will mean nothing re power structures; look at Canada.... QEII is still on the coins, but UK citizens need work visas just like everybody else.....

Speculation....and maybe we'll have to translate "Londonderry" into Irish to keep everyone happy.......

Perhaps what Cameron is doing is leading them in slowly into a NI. If Scotland cedes from the rest of the UK NI would look and ask themselves how they achieved it without resorting to terrorism and why cant they do it themselves! Perhaps the only solution may be the Scottish one(when it happens), a completely seperate entity apart from the UK which may let them come to a satisfactory solution for all!

[Starfire]

Sadly, there is a school of thought in Ireland that postulates not only should the British be forced from Ireland by force of arms, but that a vengeance be directed against them and in it's persecution, that the vengeance be expedited regardless of cost and regardless of consequence.

MI5 and the RUC (Sorry PSNI) by its incompetence is hell bent on a vicious persecution of those who counsel restraint - when they succeed, then will they fail and fail absolutely. They have a delusion that they are invincible and the mainland (England) secure - duh!

[Shaadi]

Sadly, there is a school of thought in Ireland that postulates not only should the British be forced from Ireland by force of arms, but that a vengeance be directed against them and in it's persecution, that the vengeance be expedited regardless of cost and regardless of consequence.

MI5 and the RUC (Sorry PSNI) by its incompetence is hell bent on a vicious persecution of those who counsel restraint - when they succeed, then will they fail and fail absolutely. They have a delusion that they are invincible and the mainland (England) secure - duh!What would your own school of thought be? Sounds like you wouldn't be too worried about the use of violence yourself.

[Starfire]

Tut Tut - how can you make that assumption based upon the posting - are you a police informer or controlled by one?

[Shaadi]

Just curious, as to what:your cryptic post was saying.:D

[riposte]

This is the NI Life and Times Survey, a survey that continues to gauge support for SF at under 10%. :D Charlatans.

It's straight from the normalisation dept in the Northern Ireland Office and is concocted on a regular basis with no evidence to back up any of its claims.

So the majority of Cathoilics in the north want to stay British but I've never met one, ever. That doesn't mean there aren't but I know many Protestants who feel Irish but according to the NILTS, they don't exist. Don't even bring into it the large number of Republicans who will never vote in any British election.

No doubt these Castle Catholics I've never met vote SF and SDLP because they are scared of being murdered.

They produce this dung and yet can't explain why parties who support a UI take over 40% of votes in every election.

It's 5hite, that's why.

While I agree with your post 100% 5inF... I sure would prefer if you used more polite language.

[Starfire]

Just curious, as to what:your cryptic post was saying.:D

The active and believes of the continuity to name but one, is obvious to any politic observer.

[Starfire]

'misapplying the wrong' is too apply the correct - riposte - - :)

[5intheface]

While I agree with your post 100% 5inF... I sure would prefer if you used more polite language.

5orry, I know some people find SDLP offensive. :D

[Kev Bar]

Is one apathetic to something?

[riposte]

'misapplying the wrong' is too apply the correct - riposte - - :)

Take it up with Groucho Starfire ...lol !!


“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.” Groucho Marx

[Sidewinder]

5orry, I know some people find SDLP offensive.

:D

The Tories are currently pushing through cuts that will cut the subvention to Norn Irn in half. If the Tories get a second term then the subvention will be largely gone by the end of it. I agree the Brits are slowly preparing for a united Ireland...but not an independent one.

All of Ireland will be back under the Crown, albeit doubtless with a few cosmetic figleaves, within 20 years.

[C. Flower]

:D

The Tories are currently pushing through cuts that will cut the subvention to Norn Irn in half. If the Tories get a second term then the subvention will be largely gone by the end of it. I agree the Brits are slowly preparing for a united Ireland...but not an independent one.

All of Ireland will be back under the Crown, albeit doubtless with a few cosmetic figleaves, within 20 years.

The GFA put the structures and institutions in place.

[Count Bobulescu]

What am I missing in this picture? If ROI has legally abandoned its territorial claims to the wee six, then the ball is firmly in the Westminster court, unless N.I. chooses on it’s own to go Indie. Seems to me, London would have to ask, maybe beg, Dublin to take Belfast off its hands. N.I. now truly is as British as the borough of Finchley. Dublin could and should demand a high price to accommodate any change in that status.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

:D

The Tories are currently pushing through cuts that will cut the subvention to Norn Irn in half. If the Tories get a second term then the subvention will be largely gone by the end of it. I agree the Brits are slowly preparing for a united Ireland...but not an independent one.

All of Ireland will be back under the Crown, albeit doubtless with a few cosmetic figleaves, within 20 years.

You are seeing the same things I am Sidewinder? I hear the Queen's speech this year will have a notable section dogwhistling at the Irish and referring to her high-speed high-security zip through the Republic earlier this year.

Some predictions- this will be followed up by an announcement of a visit by the next generation early in the New Year as part of the increasingly visible attempts to 'foster better relations' with Ireland and will excite the Dublin freemasons no end.

There is a visible PR push towards changing perceptions in Ireland of UK institutions such as the monarchy and the creatures will be out in force in the next few years in the media wagging their tails for Westminster and I expect to see a lot of derogatory comment in the Times and Indo in particular about 1916 and an attempt to dissuade celebrations of what passes for independence.

The truth is that the English are once again eyeing up a fair whack of pretty empty farmland to the west of their own vastly overpopulatedand difficult to feed island in the knowledge that the supply lines to their concreted suburbs are about to come under pressure from economic contraction and oil depletion.

Countries such as the US and UK were content to colonise the developing world's resources via globalisation and 'free trade' when oil underpinned the transport and suppy system but now they need to look closer to home to ensure food, water, and basic foodstuffs security in case long supply lines are no longer possible.

The UK is eyeing Ireland again in much the same way as it did in the 15th and 16th centuries and the current PR blitz as well as the whistles on the media wind of the notion that seperation from the UK has resulted in failure is part of the leading edge of the necessary messaging to bring Ireland back under the UKs sway.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory now I know but you watch- within the next four years this is going to become a lot more visible.

[Shaadi]

What am I missing in this picture? If ROI has legally abandoned its territorial claims to the wee six, then the ball is firmly in the Westminster court, unless N.I. chooses on it’s own to go Indie. Seems to me, London would have to ask, maybe beg, Dublin to take Belfast off its hands. N.I. now truly is as British as the borough of Finchley. Dublin could and should demand a high price to accommodate any change in that status.The Irish mindset is a complex thing, we're capable of holding many different and contradicting views at the same time. So even though the state has abandoned the territorial claim for the pragmatic reason of peace, people are capable of interpeting that to suit their own views. Most people would be of the view that we have just stopped saying it out loud and would still hold the territorial claim in their heart regardless of what's written on a piece of paper. International agreements mean little to us, they are merely paperwork, their observance is a matter of practicality rather than honour. On the flip side we have some with a mindset here that are self hating paddies, who don't believe in Independence. It's a form of snobbery, they want to look down on their neighbours so they multiply our faults to convince themselves that those who reject Independence are doing so for the good of all, as they make out we're not capable of ruling ourselves. Outside of these two groups, we have dissidents who want war and one-world pinkos who think that hugs and flowers will save the world and we should have a world without borders.

NI isn't as British as Finchley or as Irish as Connemara, due to it's populations differing loyalties it's a political hybrid of both. The GFA was about recognising that and dealing with the current reality rather than a surrender of either sides nationality. From my own perspective, NI needs to go into a form of joint sovereignty for a period of 50 years during which time it will allow both sides to get their heads around the other sides point of view.

The Brits point of view on NI is equally complex, most would see it as a nuissance and be glad to be rid of it. The British establishment on the other hand would see the whole Island as part of their territory and in the event of an United Ireland would want it under their influence in some way, not overtly but covertly. You Irish can play at Independence but you must defer to us British . Complex stuff and then there is the future of Britain itself, no longer the same country that it was in the 1970s, it's now a multi-cultural melting pot and British identity outside of the establishment is very weak

[fluffybiscuits]

:D

The Tories are currently pushing through cuts that will cut the subvention to Norn Irn in half. If the Tories get a second term then the subvention will be largely gone by the end of it. I agree the Brits are slowly preparing for a united Ireland...but not an independent one.

All of Ireland will be back under the Crown, albeit doubtless with a few cosmetic figleaves, within 20 years.

We pay back their billions or we become their b*tch ;)

[Shaadi]

:D

The Tories are currently pushing through cuts that will cut the subvention to Norn Irn in half. If the Tories get a second term then the subvention will be largely gone by the end of it. I agree the Brits are slowly preparing for a united Ireland...but not an independent one.

All of Ireland will be back under the Crown, albeit doubtless with a few cosmetic figleaves, within 20 years.I wouldn't disagree with you about the Brits long term aims, something like the Garret FitzgGerald Federal idea would suit them. The middle aged FG/FF/LAB voters who are content with a diet of Sir Tony and RTE would be fertile ground for such an arrangement. The younger voters coming through are a different breed, they don't have the inferiority complex of their elders or use traditional media enough to swallow the agenda. If the Brits are going to make a move it'd want to be quick, time is running out on the West Brits here. The Queens visit was their high point, it's downhill from here on in as their numbers become diluted by the more nationalistic thinking youth.

[Starfire]

The heritage of a Nation is not diminished by time or the fluctuation of any particular group - it transcends such variables.

The current generation are only care-takers.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Wise point ... there is a tendency to look for solutions within a generation but Northern Ireland needs time to get used to governing itself and anything beyond that is absolutely down to the people of Northern Ireland without interference from Dublin or Westminster. Anything other than that would be disastrous.

[Richardbouvet]

There is an assumption in discussions like this that if there is to be a united Ireland, it has to be on republican terms. Why? Would a non-republican united ireland not be hugely preferable to what we have, namely a divided "2 nations" type ireland?

It looks very much like a republican-style unity is never going to happen. However, there is real hope that a compromise-identity Ireland, probably within the Commonwealth, is possible.