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PaddyJoe
03-09-2011, 10:20 PM
Exclusive from the MOS. Background on the release of the 'Lockerbie bomber' and co-operation on Libyan dissidents:

The startling extent to which Labour misled the world over the controversial release of the Lockerbie bomber is exposed today in top-secret documents obtained by The Mail on Sunday.
In public, senior Ministers from the last Labour Government and the Scottish First Minister have repeatedly insisted that terminally ill Abdelbaset Al Megrahi was freed on compassionate grounds in a decision taken by Scottish Ministers alone.
But the confidential papers show that Westminster buckled under pressure from Colonel Gaddafi, who threatened to ignite a 'holy war' if Megrahi died in his Scottish cell

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2033460/Secret-files-Labour-lied-Gaddafi--warned-holy-war-Megrahi-died-Scotland.html#ixzz1Wvl2eV7t

TotalMayhem
03-09-2011, 10:51 PM
It seems more and more like a personal vendetta against the colonel.

The Brits over Lockerbie, Sarko over his campaign funding and the ex wife's business in Libya. Never mind the axes, Messrs Blankfein and Dimon have to grind with Gaddafi.

PaddyJoe
03-09-2011, 11:26 PM
Something that just strikes me here. If you are the British Ambassador in Tripoli and you have had several days notice that the rebels are approaching the capital would you not be firing up the shredder? You surely have a plan in place to dispose of sensitive documents.
Something not quite right about this?
:confused:

C. Flower
03-09-2011, 11:34 PM
Something that just strikes me here. If you are the British Ambassador in Tripoli and you have had several days notice that the rebels are approaching the capital would you not be firing up the shredder? You surely have a plan in place to dispose of sensitive documents.
Something not quite right about this?
:confused:

I was a bit surprised that Human Rights Watch seems to have the run of the former Libyan Intelligence building and to be issuing evidence of Gadaffi / CIA links from it.

I suppose there is a war on. I believe there was a bit of an intelligence disaster at the time of the Iranian revolution when the US embassy was overrun. :D

DCon
03-09-2011, 11:36 PM
Exclusive from the MOS. Background on the release of the 'Lockerbie bomber' and co-operation on Libyan dissidents:

the second letter sounds like he was writing as a rep of BP. Which, of course, he was

http://media.adamdodson.org/var/resizes/Control-Structures/Power%20Pyramid%202.jpg?m=1276768206

C. Flower
03-09-2011, 11:37 PM
the second letter sounds like he was writing as a rep of BP. Which, of course, he was

BP and the British State are like *that*

Newsy
04-09-2011, 12:56 AM
I was a bit surprised that Human Rights Watch seems to have the run of the former Libyan Intelligence building and to be issuing evidence of Gadaffi / CIA links from it.

There was an interview on Sky on Saturday evening with Ex-Director of CIA Michael Scheuer.

Anna Botting asked him if he was concerned about people being rendered to Libya, as to what torture they suffered and how they may be treated.

His reply was 'WHO CARES'!!!!

I am trying to find a link to this interview, but can't find it on Sky news or anywhere on the internet. Believe me, it did happen. I watched it, to my horror.....:eek::eek::eek:

C. Flower
04-09-2011, 03:38 AM
There was an interview on Sky on Saturday evening with Ex-Director of CIA Michael Scheuer.

Anna Botting asked him if he was concerned about people being rendered to Libya, as to what torture they suffered and how they may be treated.

His reply was 'WHO CARES'!!!!

I am trying to find a link to this interview, but can't find it on Sky news or anywhere on the internet. Believe me, it did happen. I watched it, to my horror.....:eek::eek::eek:

One minute they are sending lists of questions to Libya, to be asked of Islamic oppositionist prisoners, and the next minute they are providing the same men with Special Forces training. A flexible approach.

C. Flower
04-09-2011, 05:10 AM
Arturus, the private special ops firm Gaddafi seems to have been told to use, have a strangely illiterate website.

http://www.arturus.org/index.html


https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=b53ba4beba35c78660b90d1af5b47c64&tab=ivl&tabmode=list&_so_list_sort9a15dfc9a75119393533747dabcfae37=cont ractor_name%3Aasc

Sam Lord
04-09-2011, 05:17 AM
Arturus, the private special ops firm Gaddafi seems to have been told to use, have a strangely illiterate website.

http://www.arturus.org/index.html

And a thoroughly odd appreciation of dialectics ...:)

Count Bobulescu
04-09-2011, 07:46 AM
There was an interview on Sky on Saturday evening with Ex-Director of CIA Michael Scheuer.

Anna Botting asked him if he was concerned about people being rendered to Libya, as to what torture they suffered and how they may be treated.

His reply was 'WHO CARES'!!!!

I am trying to find a link to this interview, but can't find it on Sky news or anywhere on the internet. Believe me, it did happen. I watched it, to my horror.....:eek::eek::eek:

Rupee would try to keep that kind of info behind a paywall.

DCon
04-09-2011, 09:33 AM
Something that just strikes me here. If you are the British Ambassador in Tripoli and you have had several days notice that the rebels are approaching the capital would you not be firing up the shredder? You surely have a plan in place to dispose of sensitive documents.
Something not quite right about this?
:confused:

the Tories are in power. This Will be seen as Labour negative. Sometimes the simplest explanations...

C. Flower
04-09-2011, 12:01 PM
And a thoroughly odd appreciation of dialectics ...:)

You mean this ?

"No man ever steps into the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."

(Heraclitus)

Sam Lord
04-09-2011, 12:14 PM
You mean this ?

"No man ever steps into the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."

(Heraclitus)



Indeed. Change, motion, and development ..... :)




1. Heraclitus' Dialectic -- A Dynamic Method

Heraclitus (ca. 535-475 BC), was considered by Hegel to be the founder of the dialectic. Heraclitus considered the fundamental matter of the universe to be fire and regarded fire as constantly changing. Stating that "everything is in a state of flux," he held that nothing is eternal; rather, everything is in the state of generation and movement. Further stating that "war is the father and the king of all," he considered everything to be generating and changing through the conflict of opposites. Yet, he held there is something unchangeable in generation and change, namely, law, which he called Logos. Also, he held that in all things, harmony arises through conflict. The methodology of Heraclitus deals with the way nature is, and with the development of nature. His dialectic, which seeks to grasp the dynamic aspect of things in this way, could be called a dynamic method.

C. Flower
04-09-2011, 12:19 PM
Indeed. Change, motion, and development ..... :)

Very interesting. Perhaps we should give dialectics / dialectical materialism its own thread ?

Sam Lord
04-09-2011, 12:21 PM
Very interesting. Perhaps we should give dialectics / dialectical materialism its own thread ?

Better to infuse it into all the threads ...:)

PaddyJoe
04-09-2011, 08:39 PM
So Abdul Hakim Belhadj, who is a commander in the Libyan rebel forces, was rendered to Gadafffi by MI5?


Britain’s intelligence services are under pressure to spell out the full extent of their links with Colonel Muammar Gaddafi’s former regime in Libya (http://www.ft.com/intl/indepth/libya-uprising)after it emerged that the UK was complicit in a successful US plot to transfer an Islamist terror suspect to Tripoli seven years ago.
As Libya’s rebel movement takes control of Tripoli after Colonel Gaddafi’s fall, the discovery of a huge cache of documents in the capital has thrown a spotlight on the intelligence links which the former regime enjoyed with Britain as well as the US. The papers were found in the offices of Moussa Koussa, Libya’s head of external security, who defected to Tunisia, an
(http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ebee04cc-5dfb-11e0-b1d8-00144feab49a.html)
They show that the UK provided intelligence to the Libyan authorities in 2004 on a terror suspect, Abdul Hakim Belhadj, who is now a commander in the victorious rebel forces.
Britain was interested in getting information from Mr Belhadj because of his membership of a jihadist organisation, the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group. At the time, the LIFG was affiliated to al Qaeda and had a significant number of supporters in Britain, according to security sources.


According to one of the documents found, Britain’s Secret Intelligence Service – or MI6 – despatched an officer to Tripoli after Mr Belhadj had been delivered there, to obtain information of “urgent importance” from him relating to UK anti-terrorist operations.
The apparent British role in the delivery of Mr Belhadj into the hands of Col Gaddafi’s repressive regime has raised questions about whether London possibly facilitated his torture.
“This document seems to indicate that our intelligence services were getting unhealthily close to practices that the British government at the time and its successors rightly condemn,” said Patrick Mercer, Conservative MP and a former chairman of the House of Commons subcommittee on counter-terrorism.
]


The key British paper in the Belhadj case is a memo dated March 18 2004 and headed: “for the urgent personal attention of Musa Kusa”, with no letterhead and the address “London SE1”.
The document is headed: “Following message to Musa in Tripoli from Mark in London”. Sir Mark Allen, MI6’s then counter-terrorism chief, was closely involved in dealing with Libya at the time and his name appears in other documents found in the same files at the Tripoli office.
Britain’s Foreign Office declined to discuss the memo and Sir Mark could not be reached. Whitehall sources contacted by the FT on Sunday have not disputed the authenticity of the document.
The MI6 memo’s author congratulates Mr Koussa on “the arrival of Abu ‘Abd Allah Sadiq”, a nom de guerre for Mr Belhadj. Another document describes a US plan to “take control” of Mr Belhadj and his pregnant wife in Bangkok and deliver them to Libya.
The MI6 official tells Mr Koussa that Mr Belhadj’s rendition was “the least we could do for you and for Libya to demonstrate the remarkable relationship we have built over recent years”.
The letter’s author goes on to express gratitude to Mr Koussa for “helping the officer we sent out last week,” adding: “Abu Abd ‘Allah’s information on the situation in this country is of urgent importance to us.”
The document says Britain will ignore a request from Washington that all information from the suspect should be channelled through the US. The MI6 officer asserts: “the intelligence about Abu ‘Abd Allah was British”.
He continues: “I know I did not pay for the air cargo. But I feel I have the right to deal with you direct on this and am very grateful to you for the help you are giving us.”
Britain’s foreign office said it unreservedly condemned the so-called “extraordinary rendition” of terror suspects to third countries where they might be tortured, a much-criticised policy of George W Bush’s US administration.
In the US, the CIA defended its relationship with Col Gaddafi’s regime.
“It can’t come as a surprise that the Central Intelligence Agency works with foreign governments to help protect our country from terrorism and other deadly threats. That is exactly what we are expected to do,” said a CIA spokesperson who declined to comment on specific allegations.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/821092cc-d713-11e0-bc73-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1X1A6rloe
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