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fluffybiscuits
30-08-2011, 12:21 PM
Just been reading on the Irish Times that Sonas has a serious lack of housing to cater for the growing number of women who are suffering at the hands of abusive partners here in Ireland. It appears they can only handle up to 40% of the people whom call to them seeking help and the rest are turned away. its some of the reasons why though that I find interesting as can be seen from a quote here from the article.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2011/0830/1224303181610.html


“We’d prefer to see faster responses from the court system in granting barring orders,” said Ms Cosgrove.

“Women can be waiting months, particularly outside Dublin.

“In some areas of the country, judges can be great or they can have very old-fashioned, ingrained ideas and are reluctant to grant barring orders,” Ms Cosgrove said.

She added that it should be the violent man who was compelled to leave the home while women and children should stay, and yet it was almost taken for granted that the women and children would leave. This was wrong, she said.

“It causes massive disruption for children, who miss their friends, their pets, their home.”

She believed sexism underpinned this situation.

I'll throw it out there is sexisim to blame for this?

C. Flower
30-08-2011, 04:10 PM
Just been reading on the Irish Times that Sonas has a serious lack of housing to cater for the growing number of women who are suffering at the hands of abusive partners here in Ireland. It appears they can only handle up to 40% of the people whom call to them seeking help and the rest are turned away. its some of the reasons why though that I find interesting as can be seen from a quote here from the article.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2011/0830/1224303181610.html


I'll throw it out there is sexisim to blame for this?

Yes.

But also the usual brands of lackadaisical inefficiency and indifference, and the fact that the group being dealt with are lacking in power.

Andrew49
30-08-2011, 04:49 PM
Just been reading on the Irish Times that Sonas has a serious lack of housing to cater for the growing number of women who are suffering at the hands of abusive partners here in Ireland. It appears they can only handle up to 40% of the people whom call to them seeking help and the rest are turned away. its some of the reasons why though that I find interesting as can be seen from a quote here from the article.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2011/0830/1224303181610.html


I'll throw it out there is sexism to blame for this?

Yes.

And if the battered woman stays she'll be asked 'Why didn't you leave?'

Yet these ARE violent crimes; and considering it's a man beating a woman - it's actually a VERY violent crime ... life threatening I would say. It's more than high time the courts prioritised these cases.

fluffybiscuits
30-08-2011, 08:21 PM
Women seem to be caught in a catch 22 situation of sorts as if they stay as Andrew asked above they will be asked all sorts of questions as to why they didnt leave but if they do leave there is nothing out there in terms of support. It might be an idea to have a speedier barring order process so that where in cases of one partner beats another they should be able to kick their partner out of the family home so as to not worry about housing. The fact that the system is the way it is means a lot of women are going to be put off seeking help.

TotalMayhem
30-08-2011, 09:16 PM
Matters will only get worse, thanks to the garda recruitment moratorium.

Andrew49
31-08-2011, 12:54 PM
No doubt if politicians were subject to the kinds of abuses spouses suffer on a daily/hourly basis some strong legislative action would happen ... no doubt about that.

Baron von Biffo
31-08-2011, 01:07 PM
Just been reading on the Irish Times that Sonas has a serious lack of housing to cater for the growing number of women who are suffering at the hands of abusive partners here in Ireland. It appears they can only handle up to 40% of the people whom call to them seeking help and the rest are turned away. its some of the reasons why though that I find interesting as can be seen from a quote here from the article.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2011/0830/1224303181610.html


I'll throw it out there is sexisim to blame for this?

It's probably not sexism but a reflection of the constitutional status given to the family based on marriage and the outdated religious interpretation of that status.

Baron von Biffo
31-08-2011, 01:09 PM
Yes.

And if the battered woman stays she'll be asked 'Why didn't you leave?'

Yet these ARE violent crimes; and considering it's a man beating a woman - it's actually a VERY violent crime ... life threatening I would say. It's more than high time the courts prioritised these cases.

Domestic violence isn't always a man beating a woman. It can be the other way around. It can also be one sibling abusing another or children abusing parents. And it happens in gay and lesbian relationships as well.

fluffybiscuits
31-08-2011, 01:55 PM
It's probably not sexism but a reflection of the constitutional status given to the family based on marriage and the outdated religious interpretation of that status.

After reading the post earlier on the Irish constitution it would appear that judges cant be impartial if they have to take a religious oath. This would go some way to explaining the religious motivations perhaps behind some cases of domestic abuse.

C. Flower
31-08-2011, 02:13 PM
Domestic violence isn't always a man beating a woman. It can be the other way around. It can also be one sibling abusing another or children abusing parents. And it happens in gay and lesbian relationships as well.

Very true. It is a power thing. But women are more at risk of injury than men and are less likely to injure children.

oldmanriver
31-08-2011, 04:56 PM
I think its just the 'old' way of looking at things rather than a deliberate attempt to keep women in the place they occupied for too many years. There used to be a 'rule' upheld by most that what went on in the marital home was one elses business, that view was encouraged by the church so long as everyone knew that the church itself was exempt from such rules. I may be wrong but most judges seem to be last generation and so that view may still be privately but very strongly held by some judges etc.

morticia
31-08-2011, 09:17 PM
I'm not sure the reason is sexism. The abused spouse tends to leave in order to go somewhere where the abusive partner can't find them and their kids

That place would *NOT* be the family home. Stay where you know and you can be found for reprisals.

Andrew49
01-09-2011, 09:20 AM
Domestic violence isn't always a man beating a woman. It can be the other way around. It can also be one sibling abusing another or children abusing parents. And it happens in gay and lesbian relationships as well.

Too true ... and not all abuse is physical/violent. Mich of the abuse is psychological in nature ... constant criticism, belittlement and the like.

fluffybiscuits
01-09-2011, 10:53 AM
Too true ... and not all abuse is physical/violent. Mich of the abuse is psychological in nature ... constant criticism, belittlement and the like.

That can be the worst part I believe of any relationship as it just grounds down a person and leaves them exposed. They feel they are worthless and lack any self esteem . The reason a partner will bully a spouse or another partner is that when the self esteem is so low the victim is unlikely to leave thereby enabling a vicious cycle to take place.

They should have a rule whereby they victim gets the family home and the perpetrator automatically gets a barring order.

C. Flower
01-09-2011, 12:24 PM
That can be the worst part I believe of any relationship as it just grounds down a person and leaves them exposed. They feel they are worthless and lack any self esteem . The reason a partner will bully a spouse or another partner is that when the self esteem is so low the victim is unlikely to leave thereby enabling a vicious cycle to take place.

They should have a rule whereby they victim gets the family home and the perpetrator automatically gets a barring order.

This is true.

Not sure if I've already posted this: "SafeIreland.ie" is a handy site with contact numbers of refuges throughout Ireland and some useful advice, such as having a "safety plan/escape plan" in place - especially for women with children, for whom leaving is even more difficult.

http://www.safeireland.ie/

Reporting to the Gardai is a good idea too. They can take a statement without rushing into action. If it then comes to someone looking for a barring order, at least there is some record that the woman has had problems.

Barring orders up to about 10 years ago were very easily got, to the extent it was perhaps unfair on men who could be kicked out for very little cause. It seems it has now gone to the other extreme, and women often have to make themselves homeless to get away from someone who is harming them.

fluffybiscuits
01-09-2011, 12:31 PM
This is true.

Not sure if I've already posted this: "SafeIreland.ie" is a handy site with contact numbers of refuges throughout Ireland and some useful advice, such as having a "safety plan/escape plan" in place - especially for women with children, for whom leaving is even more difficult.

http://www.safeireland.ie/

Reporting to the Gardai is a good idea too. They can take a statement without rushing into action. If it then comes to someone looking for a barring order, at least there is some record that the woman has had problems.

Barring orders up to about 10 years ago were very easily got, to the extent it was perhaps unfair on men who could be kicked out for very little cause. It seems it has now gone to the other extreme, and women often have to make themselves homeless to get away from someone who is harming them.

Cheers for the link at least its handy to know there is useful info out there on the interweb!

morticia
01-09-2011, 09:12 PM
I'm not sure, if I was being whacked around, that I'd want to be anywhere where an abusive other could find me. This is the problem with handing the family home over to the abused. Many of the abusers are quite happy to get their revenge and go to jail, rather than actually abide by a barring order.

fluffybiscuits
01-09-2011, 10:49 PM
I'm not sure, if I was being whacked around, that I'd want to be anywhere where an abusive other could find me. This is the problem with handing the family home over to the abused. Many of the abusers are quite happy to get their revenge and go to jail, rather than actually abide by a barring order.

Perhaps not a barring order then but lock them up once they are psychologically assessed. They are all about being in power, they want to know they can exert their influence over a vunerable person. Once they are locked up the great thing would be that they get more frustrated as they cant exert any influence over the victim. I do get your point though about the abused, what can they do? Its just I worry about those who are abused that the accommodation on offer is riddled with issues.

Ephilant
27-11-2012, 10:54 PM
This came in to us this evening. One very powerful entry. The guest author did give me permission to copy it over. For what it's worth, this is

For the Silent Ones


Last Sunday, I got the shock of my life. I have known them for about 23 years, the shining example of the perfect couple. I’ll call them Andy and Sam. They are originally from the USA, but a combination of need of adventure, job opportunities and lousy weather brought them to our shores. Andy is a handsome looking guy, slightly over 6ft tall and he takes care of himself. Sam is a good-looking, small woman, especially standing next to Andy, who towers head and shoulders above her.
They obviously did well for themselves, and have no problem in showing the world. After all, they worked hard for this, and have just retired from their professional lives to look forward to the quiet life sustained by Andy’s substantial pension. Sam always said her biggest regret was not having any children. Somehow, it just didn’t happen.
Yesterday afternoon, Andy showed up at my door, alone. Soft spoken as ever, he asked if he could come in for a chat. I knew by his body language, and the fact that he was alone, that something was not quite right. We all know that Andy is not allowed anywhere near another woman without Sam being close by. The fact that I am openly lesbian and living with my partner makes not difference there.
I offered him a cup of coffee and waited for him to start talking. When I gave him his coffee, I noticed the bruising and the broken lip. I didn’t say anything, instinctively knowing this is why he came to visit. He winced slightly when he took his first sip of coffee, and adjusted the cup to one side of his mouth.
“You know” he said, “this has been going on since I met her.” I looked him straight in the eye and gave him the “please tell me more” look, which opened the flood gates.
For the next 3 hours I listened to a broken man telling me the unbelievable story of nearly 30 years of being subjected to domestic abuse. I simply could not believe what I was hearing.
Here was this gentle giant recalling years of incidents of severe physical and mental abuse, and I know he spared me the really bad details. He spoke of being hit, burned with cigarettes, scalded with boiling water and horrendous verbal abuse. I had to remind myself on numerous occasions that he was talking about small, gentle little Sam, his wife, my friend. He looked down and started sobbing softly. I reached across the table, took his hands in mine and asked him “Why? Why did you let this happen for so long?” He looked at me for what seemed an eternity, and smiled. Instead of answering my question, he said:

I didn’t think you would believe me.

I looked at him again, and knew he had wanted to tell somebody for a long, long time, but couldn’t.
He told me he did, once. In the very beginning he asked Jack, his future father in law, if he knew what made Sam “lose it” in a split second. He couldn’t figure out what the trigger was, and needed some advice. “I’ll never forget Jack” he said. “He looked down at the tips of his shoes and simply whispered that she got it from her mother”.
“I should have known then”, Andy said,” but I was madly in love with Sam, and thought I could handle it. I couldn’t.” He told me that after 30 years of abusive marriage, he finally had enough, and would leave her. Gentleman as ever, he wanted to do this properly, and needed to file for divorce in the USA. He had spoken to a few lawyers about filing for divorce on the basis of domestic violence, and none of them wanted to represent him. He wouldn’t make up any lies as to why he was leaving, and they all refused to take the case because they knew a case of 30 years of domestic violence against the him would simply be laughed out of court. As there are no children involved, all Sam had to do was turn the case against him and claim abuse herself, citing the absence of children as the result, and he would lose everything he had worked for all his life. One solicitor had the honesty to advice Andy to just walk away from it all, he would lose it in court anyway. But at least by simply walking out he would save the cost of a hefty legal bill.
After he left, I sat at the kitchen table for what felt like for ever, shellshocked. I simply could not understand how a man like Andy, who was physically more can capable of handling Sam if he wanted to, could let this happen. The bruising and the cracked lip were inflicted on him last Saturday, while he was having an afternoon nap. She smacked him in the face with a frying pan, because “it wasn’t washed properly.” It was one assault too many. He said it never crossed his mind to hit her back, or even just yell at her. It just wasn’t in his nature to do so. But he had to leave for he feared she would eventually end up killing him if he didn’t.
I wanted to talk to Andy again.Before he left. I needed to know why he didn’t do anything about this. I knew he would indeed not hit back, he wouldn’t hurt a fly. By why did he not do something, tell somebody? Why did he let it get to this?
My partner came home that evening and I told her about my afternoon experience and asked her why she thought he didn’t do anything for all those years. She looked at me and said, “He told you why when he said he didn’t think you would believe him.Nobody would have, except you. That’s why he came to see you.”
“Can you imagine him going to the police and file a complaint for physical violence by a woman half his size? Just imagine what fun the police officers would have with that! ”
“It’s a mans world my dear” she said, “and in a man’s world little boys don’t cry and big men don’t get beaten up by women. It’s a sad world, a man’s world. Thank God he had you to listen to him”.
Today we heard that Andy had left. I never got to talk to him again.
Sam called to find out if we had seen him. He was’t home when she arrived back at the house. She wasn’t sad, worried, or anxious. She was outraged that he had gone without telling her where he was going to and when he would be back. And what’s more, he had taken a load of money out of their savings without asking her. “In fact, he had taken exactly half!” A gentleman through and through,I knew Andy had left for good. I silently wished him good luck, and told Sam I hadn’t seen him for a good while.
I just wanted to tell the story so that maybe somewhere, somebody would be inspired by Andy to stand up and make a change, if only for himself.

http://www.people-in-need.com (http://s.tt/1v36m)