Allied Irish Bank Advanced and guaranteed 400 million loans to RC Church to pay US abuse victims

[C. Flower]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2028424/Catholic-church-used-400m-Irish-bank-loans-pay-U-S-sexual-abuse-victims.html#ixzz1Veul3Kgm

Just when I thought it couldn't get worse.


More than $400m of compensation to American victims of sexual abuse by Catholic priests was paid with loans and guarantees from Allied Irish Bank, it has ben revealed.
The funds, in the form of loans, guarantees and lines of credit, were given specifically to pay clerical abuse victims, and led to AIB being dubbed the 'Vatican's banking arm' in U.S. legal circles.
The revelation that a comparatively small Irish bank based on another continent was used to pay off victims will raise questions about AIB's links to the church.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2028424/Catholic-church-used-400m-Irish-bank-loans-pay-U-S-sexual-abuse-victims.html#ixzz1Vfo5URwW

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Okay- so who is the Opus Dei muppet at senior level within AIB? Will the next revelation be that the loans were on a 'non-recourse' basis which would effectively mean the Irish taxpayer is propping up a bank that is paying off US abuse victims on behalf of the US catholic church?

Something criminally wrong here- no way should AIB or any of its subsidiaries have been lending the US catholic church or its dioceses hundreds of millions of dollars in 2007 when the bank was scrabbling for funds.

I think questions should be asked in the Dail about this when it resumes and we need to know what collateral the church put up.

Those dioceses in the US are a bad credit risk because they've been filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in the states and those loans would be very high risk.

I've a horrible feeling there's no collateral to speak of. That question needs to be asked and if no collateral was sought or the loans turn out to be 'non-recourse' then the demands should start for a possible fraud investigation.

The Irish taxpayer is now on the hook for those loans if they become impaired. AIB shareholders should be asking the same questions.

[C. Flower]

I wonder was it the only bank involved. And if any politicians were aware of this.

[morticia]

Any risk of non-repayment?? Are the church a safe bet re loans?

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Considering US dioceses are going bust it would appear to be very high risk.

[C. Flower]

Considering US dioceses are going bust it would appear to be very high risk.

I'm trying to think when did I ever hear of a bank giving a loan and also guaranteeing it.... :(

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

The crucial thing for me is whether any collateral was sought. If not it would be time for a criminal investigation because there is no way any bank in its right mind would lend the catholic church, particularly in the US,money to pay abuse compensation.

This $400million could very easily end up being chalked up to AIB. And guess who owns AIB?

[morticia]

This $400million could very easily end up being chalked up to AIB. And guess who owns AIB?

Could the Vatican not be held accountable?? Oh, boy.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I would be willing to bet that AIB was the only bank 'stupid' enough to underwrite the US Catholic Church. It also means that their insurers were no longer paying out- presumably they can't get insurance for such a high risk.

And up pops AIB- 'sure we'll lend ya the money'. If they can't get insurers to pay out how come one single bank is $400million in the hole?

Anyone want a bet there's no collateral either? This stinks of an Irish taxpayer stitchup to pay for the childbummers in the church again. Only nation with a track record of being stupid enough to do so.

They got insurance in 2000/2001 against such payoffs in the states. Funny how the insurance business won't touch 'em but a state-owned IRISH bank will. There's an Opus Dei muppet in AIB responsible for this. I can smell it.

Obviously AIB were the only ones in the market for this business if the bank gained a reputation as the Vatican's banking arm. Why wouldn't the Office of Public Works in the Vatican do the business? Too high a risk.

Let the Irish taxpayers pay. They love that sort of thing. There is criminality behind this because this was not business that any other bank would touch.

[morticia]

OK. Toothgrinding in order. Smoke coming out of ears.

[TotalMayhem]

And I thought the Vatican has its own bank?

But then, Don Corleone would have probably objected to his thoroughly laundered funds being used to compensate clerical child abuse victims. Instead, the Irish taxpayers made 'em an offer they couldn't refuse. ;)

[Spectabilis]

[QUOTE=Spectabilis;175161]http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0821/thisweek.html


I have posted this on the Thread on Painful Happening in Dublin Diocese opened by Andrew 49. Sorry I can't link directly.
In answer to posts above, it would appear that a bailout from other dioceses or from the Vatican is not going to happen. So that would be us again? As to collateral, I guess indulgences are not collateral anymore.:(

'Michael Kelly, Deputy Editor of The Irish Catholic is interviewed on this story here on RTE's This Week.

Among other things he tells us that the diocese held substantial investments in bank shares. Their value has fallen from €7m to a mere €30k.

They need €67m to meet their liabilities. There will be, he says no bailout from other dioceses or from the Vatican

The parish levy is expected to raise €3 to €12 per Catholic family. There are 1 million registered Catholics in the diocese, so that won't balance the books.

(What is a registered Catholic?)'

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Anyone who ticked 'catholic' on the census?:) Its called the 'Herod' file on the Archbishop's home computer.

Watch as a load of farmin' families suddenly switch allegiance to Islam.

[C. Flower]

That's 67 million euro a year yes ?

And its all voluntary contributions ?

We still really are a religious state, aren't we ?

[morticia]

Watch as a load of farmin' families suddenly switch allegiance to Islam.

hilarious....:D;)

[morticia]

We still really are a religious state, aren't we ?

That is, if the contributions are actually made....... I can see some other denominations marketing themselves as cheaper and paedo free....could suddenly become attractive, I'd imagine.

They may have to start charging for first communions, baptisms, weddings and funerals....could get interesting...

cough up for a wedding, get the first baptism free???

[Skrimshander]

That's 67 million euro a year yes ?

And its all voluntary contributions ?

We still really are a religious state, aren't we ?

a short while back while my brother was over for a visit he happened to have a copy of the local parish newsletter....and in it they print the monthly takings from the church collection. €17.000.00.. and that doesnt take into account the local craw thumpers sticking their hands in the pockets at the service...

looks like the locals are still trying to buy their way into heaven lol

[PaddyJoe]

Michael J Sullivan, US Ambassador to Ireland 1999 to 2001 was on the AIB board in 2007. He was also a Trustee of the Catholic Diocese of Wyoming.
Eugene Sheehy also spent a couple of years in the US cleaning up the All First mess.

[lee9963]

Am I right in thinking that this loan has now been repaid? I'm sure I read it somewhere.

Happy to hold my hands up if wrong.

[Andrew49]

In July 2003 Boston’s then new archbishop Cardinal Seán O’Malley visited Rome seeking financial help to resolve 552 abuse cases. He met Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano and Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos, then in charge of the Congregation for the Clergy, which oversees the liquidation of diocesan assets. They gave O’Malley carte blanche to sell properties. In Boston, parish sit-ins ignited bad press and a deep slide in donations. Cardinal Sodano saw profit horizons. He installed an under-secretary at the Vatican who fed information on closing churches to a New York company, the Follieri Group. Its vice-president was Andrea Sodano, a building engineer in Italy and a nephew of the cardinal. The cardinal greeted potential investors at a New York launch party.

The Follieri website promoted its ties to Vatican officials. Its business plan: find churches, buy low, sell high. When an investor sued Follieri for profligate spending, the FBI investigated. Irish Times: Cardinal's profit mission and an FBI investigation into sale of church property - Jason Berry (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0117/1224310361337.html)

During 2005, the Follieri Group and its affiliated limited liability corporations have:

Purchased two closed parish facilities (church, school, rectory and convent) in North Philadelphia. The Group paid over $1 million for Transfiguration Parish, while local land records do not indicate what it paid for St. Clement's.

In the Philadelphia archdiocese, according to spokesperson Donna Farrell, "The broker markets the property based on two independent appraisals … [and] all qualified bids are reviewed and the highest responsible bid with respect to the appraisals of the property is accepted. In addition, we must ensure that the intended use of the property is not in conflict with values and teachings of the church."

Bought a vacant lot in the upscale suburb of Orland Park, a property owned by the Chicago archdiocese. An archdiocesan spokesman refused to say what the Group paid for the property. The archdiocese lists its properties with real estate brokers and no favoritism exists in its procedures, said the spokesman.

Purchased a run-down parish and school complex that has been abandoned for more than two decades in the Camden, N.J., diocese. The Atlantic City pastor who welcomed the Follieri's Group's involvement, Msgr. William Hodge, said he is "absolutely thrilled" at the prospect that the Follieri Group will develop affordable housing for casino employees and senior citizens on the site.

Raffaello Follieri said the company is successful in 60 to 70 percent of its bids, though they have, according to those familiar with some of the Group's transactions, been unsuccessful bidders for church property in Boston, Brooklyn, N.Y., and St. Louis.

The Follieri Group partnered with the Yucaipa Companies, a Los Angeles private equity fund headed by Forbes Magazine-ranked billionaire Ron Burkle. Yucaipa, whose advisory board includes former president Bill Clinton (who counts Burkle among his closest friends) and the Rev. Jesse Jackson, has extensive investments in profitable inner-city commercial enterprises, particularly grocery stores.

SOURCE (http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/update/bn022206b.htm)

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Youse guys ....

'That same year, Raffaello left Italy for a new life in New York City. Here, he founded his real estate venture the Follieri Group, appointing himself chairman and CEO, and his father president. According to a publicist who he stayed with—rent-free—when he arrived, Raffaello “didn’t speak English very well.” But he made important connections, including Vincent Ponte. Described on the Follieri Group Web site as a vice president and a “real estate developer,” Vincent had another job, too: Along with his father, Angelo, he owned V. Ponte and Sons, one of the largest waste management firms in New York. In a twist straight out of The Sopranos, the Pontes also had ties to the Mob. (Five years previously, in 1997, *Angelo was sent to prison for his involvement with the trash cartel run by the Gambino and Genovese families while his son Vincent pled guilty to bribery that same year, receiving five years of probation.)

While he made some disagreeable friends, Raffaello was also positioning himself as an emissary of the Vatican.'

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/pagesixmag/issues/20080629/Inside+Story+Raffaello+Follieri#ixzz1jiX7fktL

[Andrew49]

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c135/theknitter/hf.jpg

[PaddyJoe]

Hmm. So these bonds are guaranteed by the Irish taxpayer?

ALLIED Irish Banks last night denied a report that it is one of the leading backers of bonds issued by the Catholic Church in California.

AIB, together with US Bancorp and Wells Fargo, are among the most active guarantors of municipal bonds issued by the Catholic Church in California, the 'Economist' magazine concluded following a lengthy study of the secretive US church's finances. This would mean that Irish taxpayers would be on the hook if the church in California declared bankruptcy. The sums involved are large; Catholic groups in California have raised more than $12bn through muni bonds
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aib-says-no-credit-risk-in-us-catholic-church-3206676.html

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

All debts lead back to the Irish taxpayer then? And why would an entirely separate corporate structure such as AIB (US) be able to call in extremis on Irish taxpayers unless the deal was written particularly in that way?

And who volunteered the Irish taxpayer as backers of an American company's bonds? I'd like to know who in the Central Bank and Dept of Finance agreed that because it would have to have been deliberately written that way.

Coincidentally church organisations in Ireland already owe the Irish taxpayer 400million- so who is the little failed priest in the Irish Government and Central Bank who sanctioned this?

[Andrew49]

AIB (Allied Irish Bank) night denied a report HERE (http://www.economist.com/node/21560536) that it is one of the leading backers of bonds issued by the Catholic Church in California. AIB, together with US Bancorp and Wells Fargo, are among the most active guarantors of municipal bonds issued by the Catholic Church in California, the 'Economist' magazine concluded following a lengthy study of the secretive US church's finances. This would mean that Irish taxpayers would be on the hook if the church in California declared bankruptcy. AIB said yesterday it had "significantly reduced its outstanding balances with US Catholic dioceses to immaterial levels" and denied that it had any outstanding letter of credit with any diocese in the US. LINK: Irish Independent (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aib-says-no-credit-risk-in-us-catholic-church-3206676.html)

US law allows churches not to file income tax returns, list their assets or disclose basic financial facts. That means that information about lenders is only revealed sporadically.

AIB is 99pc owned by the Irish State.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I knew bankers were spectacularly hated these days but it takes a special sort of profession to actively make things worse by hopping into bed with an organisation credibly accused of organised cover up of widespread paedophilia.

Maybe Voltaire was wrong. People will never be free until the last priest is strangled with the entrails of the last banker.

There is one thing in common between priests and bankers- they both use a form of canon law- with priests it is in a double meaning in their public statements and with bankers it is hidden in the small print by their philosophical cousins and fellow shytewallowers of civilisation the lawyers.

[Andrew49]

The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles, its former leader Cardinal Roger Mahony and an ex-priest have agreed to pay a total of nearly $10 million to settle four child sex abuse cases brought against them, lawyers for the victims said on Tuesday.

Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/13/us-usa-church-abuse-idUSBRE92C05I20130313)

Mahony, who retired in 2011 as head of the largest U.S. archdiocese and is now in Rome taking part in choosing a new pope.

[C. Flower]

I would like to know if these 400 million dollars in loans are being repaid with interest?

[Andrew49]

The loans are - unsurprisingly - performing very well. The US Catholic Church is very rich. The loan's purpose was - again unsurprisingly - NOT to protect children but to protect Church properties from being sold off to pay the abuse bill.

[C. Flower]

The loans are - unsurprisingly - performing very well. The US Catholic Church is very rich. The loan's purpose was - again unsurprisingly - NOT to protect children but to protect Church properties from being sold off to pay the abuse bill.

Do US banks make this kind of information public ?