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Andrew49
15-08-2011, 10:09 AM
David Cameron has launched an attack on Britain's culture of "moral neutrality", saying the obese, the idle and the poor have no one to blame but themselves.

Source (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/2263521/David-Cameron-launches-moral-neutrality-attack-on-obese-idle-and-poor.html)

So like a Tory. Interesting times ahead in the UK. If the biggest threat to the UK comes from obese idlers living in poverty I expect Cameron will be moving his armed forces out of Afghanistan .... seems to me obese idlers are a much softer target!

Captain Con O'Sullivan
15-08-2011, 10:15 AM
WTF would a former public schoolboy and short-term PR practitioner know about the sum of Britain's 'morality'?

Maybe his missus who is the daughter or a Marquess(?) can fill him on on yoof culture. Typical privileged tory dogwhistle to the blue rinses of Tunbridge Wells.

TotalMayhem
15-08-2011, 10:23 AM
Cameron is beyond "moral neutrality" where the absence of the rule of law in the "City" is concerned. Looking the other way is actively encouraged.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
15-08-2011, 10:30 AM
Some morally neutral youth from the Bullingdon Club Year of '87;

http://www.leftfutures.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cameron-bullingdon-club1.jpg

From left (1) Sebastian Grigg, (2) David Cameron, (3) Ralph Perry-Robinson, (4) Ewen Fergusson, (5) Matthew Benson, (6) Sebastian James, (7) Jonathan Ford, (8) Boris Johnson, (9) Harry Eastwood

'Not very many have made a habit of dressing up in 1,200 tailcoats before getting hogwhimperingly drunk on champagne and destroying restaurant dining rooms.
Naturally, being young gentlemen, they pay for all the damage afterwards.

'In one of the most notorious incidents involving the Buller, as it is known, 17 members were arrested two years ago after trashing the cellar of a 15th century pub outside Oxford, the White Hart at Fyfield. Four spent the night in the cells, including the Hon Alexander Fellowes, son of the Queen's former private secretary, Lord Fellowes.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-435875/Camerons-cronies-Bullingdon-class-87.html#ixzz1V5m68rX5

Buddha
15-08-2011, 11:20 AM
David Cameron has launched an attack on Britain's culture of "moral neutrality", saying the obese, the idle and the poor have no one to blame but themselves.

And the fatherless, who are raised with no male role model, and are full of fury.

It's all the fault of the council home sluts. Not a mention of the sperm doners who disappear, and are of course renowned for their abhorrance of physical violence and rioting and their love of family values.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
15-08-2011, 11:21 AM
Talk to Boris Johnson about that- he's been donating sperm around London like its going out of fashion.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
15-08-2011, 11:26 AM
'Boris Johnson and Helen Macintyre first met around 15 years ago when she was a student.
They kept in touch over the years but rekindled the friendship in January last year. Enthused by their past and a shared love of art, they would meet for dinners.
They also spent time at the home Helen, 36, shared with wealthy property adviser Pierre Rolin. But last night it emerged their friendship was at the centre of her break-up with Pierre, her partner of three years.
Dad-of-four Boris, 46, has been caught cheating on second wife Marina, 44, twice before. His first marriage collapsed because of his adultery.'

and;

'In 2004 Marina threw Boris, then editor of the Spectator magazine, out of their home in Highbury, North London, after it was revealed he had had a long affair with
Spectator columnist Petronella Wyatt.
He had dismissed the cheating claims and said: “I have not had an affair with Petronella. It is complete balderdash. It is an inverted pyramid of piffle.”
But Petronella’s mum Lady Wyatt confirmed the affair and revealed her daughter had an abortion towards the end of it.


and;

'Two years later Boris was in trouble at home again after he had a fling with Times Higher Education Supplement journalist Anna Fazackerley.
In the 1990s he broke the heart of his first wife Allegra Mostyn-Owen, whom he married in 1987 and divorced for Marina in 1993.'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/07/15/boris-johnson-the-socialite-and-her-very-angry-lover-115875-22413560/


http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05/09a_08_boris-and_415x275.jpg

C. Flower
15-08-2011, 11:29 AM
Tragic for Anna, Petronella, Marina and Allegra, particularly as he ended up with a mere Helen.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
15-08-2011, 11:35 AM
'Their first child, Lara Lettice, was born in 1993, with three more children - Milo Arthur, Cassia Peaches and Theodore Apollo - following in quick succession.'

'Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson (he is still known to family members as Al) was born in New York to English parents in 1964 and was, until recently, an American citizen.
He is of Turkish descent. His great-grandfather, Ali Kemal, a Turkish journalist, was briefly interior minister in the government of Ahmed Tevfik Pasha, Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire.
His grandfather Osman Ali settled in the UK in the 1920s and changed his name to Wilfred Johnson.'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7376621.stm

Andrew49
15-08-2011, 11:43 AM
Chance here for Ireland to help Cameron - Ireland does 'Moral Neutrality' like no one else in the world. From Ferns all the way to Raphoe via the byways of Cloyne and the urban conurbation of the capital , this little Island can point Cameron in the right direction.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
15-08-2011, 11:57 AM
Half the people lecturing others in both Ireland and the UK are corrupt tossers of the worst sort- and in no position to be lecturing others on 'moral' neutrality.

I'm reminded of Winston Churchill's note to the King when Home Office Ministers had it as part of their duty to write an informal summary of events in the Commons for the Palace. Churchill didn't see why he should have to do this- awaited his chance until a debate came up on the subject of incarcerating tramps in work camps and wrote an incendiary line in his report- I paraphrase; 'Of course it should be borne in mind that dissolution occurs at both ends of the social scale'.

This caused King George to cough his cornflakes across the palace breakfast room and Private Secretaries were summoned and there was a flurry of correspondence between the palace and the amused Churchill. It ended with Churchill writing a note offering to pass the privilege of summarising for the King over to another official- the King' private secretary realised thats what he was after and a note came back from the palace ...

'Pray Continue'.

Churchill may have introduced his famous scowl after that episode.

morticia
15-08-2011, 07:15 PM
'Boris Johnson and Helen Macintyre first met around 15 years ago when she was a student.... last night it emerged their friendship was at the centre of her break-up with Pierre, her partner of three years.

But Petronella’s mum Lady Wyatt confirmed the affair and revealed her daughter had an abortion towards the end of it.

'Two years later Boris was in trouble at home again after he had a fling with Times Higher Education Supplement journalist Anna Fazackerley.
In the 1990s he broke the heart of his first wife Allegra Mostyn-Owen, whom he married in 1987 and divorced for Marina in 1993.'


Aaahh, so "Bonking Bozzer" is letting the Tory side down again, is he?? Ooh, I'm so glad. Is Viz comic planning a "Baxter Basics the Tory MP" retrospective/comeback??

I hate to say this, but in comparison with the Roaring Tories, our pols really just don't do slips of the langer in the same inimitable style...

But there's always one thing you can rely on with the Tories....the mere mention of lax public morals and single mothers and half the Cabinet get caught with their trousers 'round their ankles. Gotter love the press....they don't do political hypocrisy lying down over there.

Labour just didn't have what it takes on this front either.

Oooh, I am looking forward to Back To Basics, V2.2. Sluuurp!

Spectabilis
15-08-2011, 09:58 PM
[QUOTE=Captain Con O'Sullivan;172307]Some morally neutral youth from the Bullingdon Club Year of '87;

http://www.leftfutures.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cameron-bullingdon-club1.jpg

From left (1) Sebastian Grigg, (2) David Cameron, (3) Ralph Perry-Robinson, (4) Ewen Fergusson, (5) Matthew Benson, (6) Sebastian James, (7) Jonathan Ford, (8) Boris Johnson, (9) Harry Eastwood

QUOTE]

Well done Cap'n on finding this photograph. I had read of the Bullingdon but the photograph is amazing. Thousand words and all that.

Derelict
15-08-2011, 10:38 PM
Chance here for Ireland to help Cameron - Ireland does 'Moral Neutrality' like no one else in the world. From Ferns all the way to Raphoe via the byways of Cloyne and the urban conurbation of the capital , this little Island can point Cameron in the right direction.
It's the same all over the world, Andrew.

Cloyne and Raphoe, or Utah and Texas - Catholic and Mormon.

Even when everyone is rightly furious at what's happened in Ireland there still doesn't seem to be any discussion of the general problem - religion-related sexual abuse of children, the reality that a sizeable chunk of 'respectable' people never see it as a criminal matter, and that Civil Authority has never been keen to confront it.

Nobody on this forum is talking about the Texas case of Warren Jeffs. Warren Jeffs is or was the leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS).

Last week Jeffs was sentenced to Life plus twenty years, consecutive, and fined $10,000 for one count of aggravated sexual assault of a child and one count of sexual assault of a child.

It's a landmark case with some implications that must be terrifying the Vatican.

But for the moment just look at this newsclip from 2006 when Jeffs had been arrested for offences in Utah.

The FLDS have a lot of money, and friends.

Look at the Journalist here wanting to know why Jeffs should have been arrested -
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/jeffs-overrated-on-fbi-list/6h7h3rs?cpkey=0abc4827-c109-4ef8-a13d-c9aed77f6c3e%7C%7C%7C%7C

oldmanriver
15-08-2011, 10:57 PM
[QUOTE=Captain Con O'Sullivan;172307]Some morally neutral youth from the Bullingdon Club Year of '87;

http://www.leftfutures.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cameron-bullingdon-club1.jpg

From left (1) Sebastian Grigg, (2) David Cameron, (3) Ralph Perry-Robinson, (4) Ewen Fergusson, (5) Matthew Benson, (6) Sebastian James, (7) Jonathan Ford, (8) Boris Johnson, (9) Harry Eastwood

QUOTE]

Well done Cap'n on finding this photograph. I had read of the Bullingdon but the photograph is amazing. Thousand words and all that.

Great shot! Its got "I love me" written all over it...

Buddha
15-08-2011, 11:13 PM
[QUOTE=Spectabilis;172538]

Great shot! Its got "I love me" written all over it...

It's amazing isn't it? They all have the exact same look of absolute arrogance about them. Now where's that thread gone about Money and what it means...........:eek:

Derelict
17-08-2011, 01:22 AM
Warren Jeffs is or was the leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS).

Last week Jeffs was sentenced to Life plus twenty years, consecutive, and fined $10,000 for one count of aggravated sexual assault of a child and one count of sexual assault of a child.

It's a landmark case with some implications that must be terrifying the Vatican.

In May 2006 the FBI put Warren Jeffs on their 'Ten Most Wanted' list, and in August that year he was arrested.

In 2007 he received a sentence of 10 years to life for various offences; underage-sex, incest etc. Unfortunately in 2010 those conviction were quashed on appeal because the jury had been misdirected.

However he was then immediately re-arrested and extradited to Texas on charges arising from the MASSIVE 2008 raid by the Texas Rangers and FBI on the Yearning For Zion Ranch - .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YFZ_Ranch

This across-the-board investigation into Jeffs' fundamentalist mormon sect has now been extended into Canada. An RCMP team have gone down to Texas to ascertain details of the sect's cross-border traffic in underage 'brides'.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
17-08-2011, 11:18 AM
I remember reading about this Jeffs character and his sect's ability to leverage 'religious freedoms' to effectively break the law and allow the cult leader to get away with behaviour that would see him behind bars in most countries around the world.

It is fascinating in some ways to try to analyse the amount of power than can be exerted over simple people by corrupt witchdoctors interested in the exhibition of power and control over other human beings.

I recall the moral panic in Ireland in the 80's over the sudden sprouting of evangelical cults who would basically rent a house and set up a 'church' and then trawl the streets looking for emotionally vulnerable young people to invite back- it is a similar psychology to the streetgang set up- find someone lacking the usual social network and provide it.

We had families paying detectives to spring young people, often by force, and to debrief them over a period of weeks as to what had happened to them. It usually took a couple of weeks to bring the kids back to a point where they could actually see how their lives had been taken over.

The MO was the same in those houses- a charismatic leader basically deconstructing vulnerable young people's normal critical faculties through keeping them tired (prayer sessions in the middle of the night) and a form of guantanamo style emotional softening up process until they were dependent psychologically on the group. The group always following the commands of the leader of course.

Catholic retreats were a half-arsed attempt at this type of conditioning- the provision of a social network where the social sgnals all went one way- obedience to the church as interpreted by the priest.

Derelict
17-08-2011, 11:07 PM
Catholic retreats were a half-arsed attempt at this type of conditioning- the provision of a social network where the social sgnals all went one way- obedience to the church as interpreted by the priest.

I'm sorry but you're wrong there, Captain. There's nothing of the "half-arsed attempt" about it.

One of my sisters was grabbed, in the 1950's.

She was at a fee-paying convent boarding-school, and was totally brain-washed by the nuns. She 'decided' to become a nun while she was still a schoolgirl, only just turned fifteen,, and remained one till the day she died.

It was totally wrong - a blatant Abuse-of-Authority, for while she was living in that boarding-school they were very much 'in loco parentis' - she was their young Ward and they were her Guardian.

They grabbed her when she was still too young to understand things.

The truth is that our parents were uneducated and ignorant - my father couldn't read or write except for his own name. And it was always strongly given out from the pulpit that a vocation was a blessing - for a Catholic family to oppose a vocation was for that family to reject God.

I think my parents thought feared that if they had objected then their other children would die in accidents or get cancer. That's how it was in those days.

I'm still mourning for my sister. Not because she's dead, but because she became a nun. I'm forever thinking what sort of nephews and nieces I might have had, and so on.

oldmanriver
17-08-2011, 11:40 PM
We were taught to be proud if a member of the family entered the church. Huh!

Captain Con O'Sullivan
18-08-2011, 06:45 PM
I'm sorry but you're wrong there, Captain. There's nothing of the "half-arsed attempt" about it.

One of my sisters was grabbed, in the 1950's.

She was at a fee-paying convent boarding-school, and was totally brain-washed by the nuns. She 'decided' to become a nun while she was still a schoolgirl, only just turned fifteen,, and remained one till the day she died.

It was totally wrong - a blatant Abuse-of-Authority, for while she was living in that boarding-school they were very much 'in loco parentis' - she was their young Ward and they were her Guardian.

They grabbed her when she was still too young to understand things.

The truth is that our parents were uneducated and ignorant - my father couldn't read or write except for his own name. And it was always strongly given out from the pulpit that a vocation was a blessing - for a Catholic family to oppose a vocation was for that family to reject God.

I think my parents thought feared that if they had objected then their other children would die in accidents or get cancer. That's how it was in those days.

I'm still mourning for my sister. Not because she's dead, but because she became a nun. I'm forever thinking what sort of nephews and nieces I might have had, and so on.

Aye Derelict I'd say it was heavily promoted as the more families who had relatives in the orders the better-from the point of view of the church. It still causes great conflict in people who might have an aunt or uncle in orders and are heavily conflicted because of torn loyalties to them and of course in those days people were trained to think it was a great thing to have someone in the family involved.

There was the old social thing about the farming families that the eldest would get the farm, the second would go into the civil service and the youngest into the priesthood. That was Irish Mammy heaven and worth many social points in her local area.

The age thing is interesting. We're only starting to get a glimpse into the way these 'vocations' were managed and young people prepared in a way by their families and social network ... it used to be referred to as 'getting the call' I think? There was all sorts of superstitious nonsense around it anyway but there is some early evidence that thwarted development in adolescence for the males treated as 'special' in this way may have been a factor in or at least one plank of the psychological damage that lead to sadistic, narcissistic behaviour or in some cases much worse.

Its too early to say mind but there are some studies and research being carried out into the psychological profile of those who ended up as clerics and ended up abusing. What is beginning to emerge is a picture of 'halted' or arrested adolescence, with a lash of carefully nurtured fear and loathing of female adults on top and then the impossible psychological strictures of celibacy.

Not everyone went bad of course- I've seen nuns who continue even into old age of being giggly and girly and all bashful much like teenage girls would be. I've also seen ones that have clearly lashed out into sadism and it doesn't take a genius to work out why the pretty girls in a class sometimes came in for special attention. A schoolgirl with life ahead of her could be a serious reminder of disturbance in a nun whose psychology has turned inward and become self-destructive.

We don't know enough about the priests yet- but early profiles would suggest that there is huge psychological conflict in some of them and put that together with arrested development and taught hatred of females and thats a hell of a mix.

Derelict
21-08-2011, 12:22 AM
We don't know enough about the priests yet- but early profiles would suggest that there is huge psychological conflict in some of them and put that together with arrested development and taught hatred of females and thats a hell of a mix.

Yes, Con. As you say, we don't know enough.

I've a nasty mind. I think a greed for money and power must be behind a lot of it.

Have a look at this piece here - http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Cases-around-country-show-theft-abuse-link-1158085.php

RCC dioceses in America are having to sell-off churches because of their financial problems. Compensation payments to victims and a decline in church-giving are blamed for this, but how much money has been stolen by priests?

There's been a massive cover-up. The FBI needs to be involved.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
21-08-2011, 12:30 AM
Wouldn't surprise me. Some of the priests in Ireland seem to be mad keen to do building and refurbishment projects with local builders all of a sudden and it wouldn't surprise me at all there were backhanders going back to the priest with the parish picking up the bills.

There's been a rash of US priests busted for gambling and otherwise blowing parish funds I notice. Maybe some have realised the jig is up and are grabbing what they can get before the diocese goes tits up, so to speak.

Breakdown in discipline at diocesan level perhaps?

Derelict
21-08-2011, 01:51 AM
Wouldn't surprise me. Some of the priests in Ireland seem to be mad keen to do building and refurbishment projects with local builders all of a sudden and it wouldn't surprise me at all there were backhanders going back to the priest with the parish picking up the bills.

There's been a rash of US priests busted for gambling and otherwise blowing parish funds I notice. Maybe some have realised the jig is up and are grabbing what they can get before the diocese goes tits up, so to speak.

Breakdown in discipline at diocesan level perhaps?

"Breakdown in discipline at diocesan level perhaps?" - My own belief is that in many parts of the Church there has always been a relationship between depravity and influence.

Consider San Francisco archdiocese and the paedophile priest, Mgr Patrick O'Shea, a friend and confidant of Archbishop John Quinn.

This 1994 scandal gave an early inkling of the widespread depravity within the Catholic Church. It came to light because the supposedly wealthy archdiocese had suddenly announced the closure of a dozen churches. A shocked lawyer instructed a private detective to investigate, and discovered that the diocese was facing massive claims from O'Shea's many victims.

In 2004, Monsignor O'Shea was finally convicted - of embezzling about $200,000 from the church. He was sentenced to time served, and the more than 200 molestation charges against him were dropped because the statute of limitations had expired.

I quoted CS Lewis previously. He set the whole thing out in a 1943 speech, http://theenglishnazareth.blogspot.com/2011/08/inner-circle.html - though the style of the Church's demi-monde would been nearer to 1960's London, where Baron Boothby could be in bed with the wife of the prime-minister in the afternoon, and then with one of Ronald Kray's rent-boys that night.

There's nothing going on in the Church that doesn't go on in politics and elsewhere.

C. Flower
21-08-2011, 06:59 AM
[quote=oldmanriver;172557]

It's amazing isn't it? They all have the exact same look of absolute arrogance about them. Now where's that thread gone about Money and what it means...........:eek:

And apparently they discussed among themselves which one of them would lead the Tory Party in due course.

There's a link on another thread to an account of how they were both involved in a serious hooligan rampage, ran away and denied all, while others were caught by the police.

Then of course there was Clegg, who got away with smashing up and setting fire to a priceless collection of cacti on a school trip - also getting away with it because of who he was.