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Sam Lord
05-07-2011, 05:19 AM
Article by Naomi Wolf:



Could the widespread availability and consumption of pornography in recent years actually be rewiring the male brain, affecting men's judgment about sex and causing them to have more difficulty controlling their impulses?


http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/06/2011630143536779660.html

morticia
05-07-2011, 06:39 AM
Dunno about this. An awful lot of the recent sex scandals involved minors and date back 40 odd years. OK; not the DSK one, but...anyway, Catholic priests were not supposed to be looking at porn !!!

I would also have thought that one could argue that for some people, the porn would take the edge off your frustrations?? Could go either way, I suppose?

The rich and powerful have always tended to take what they want, anyway. A relative with an interest in things historical claims that the 18th century was far more libidinous than the current era in some ways and points us all towards Hogarth and gin consumption being the root of all evil in those days.

But talking of abuses, did we come up with the phrase "droit de segnieur" in the recent era?? And having 24/7 media plus the blogosphere staring up yer derriere would make the most lecherous person of influence think twice.....not a consideration 200 years ago

Captain Con O'Sullivan
05-07-2011, 07:01 AM
If us men aren't careful one of these days women will realise men can be controlled using sexuality.

(cough).

I love the implication that it is solely men who use pornography. We're all bastards, lads. There's no doubt about it. Bastards:)

morticia
05-07-2011, 07:09 AM
If us men aren't careful one of these days women will realise men can be controlled using sexuality.

(cough).

I love the implication that it is solely men who use pornography. We're all bastards, lads. There's no doubt about it. Bastards:)

Oh, don't worry Captain, we're all far too angelic and virtuous to ever even think of going down that road....:D;):eek:

Cáthasaigh
05-07-2011, 08:47 AM
YouTube - ‪SOAD - Violent pornography‬‏

Captain Con O'Sullivan
05-07-2011, 09:18 AM
At the risk of startling the politically correct wing isn't all pornography a kind of violence? It is certainly a downgrading of a human being to an object.

I wonder sometimes how much the culture of viewing all sexual matters as something hidden and to be dealt with only in the dark- this culture certainly still exists- contributes to the culture of pornography?

Pornography can sometimes be art. The Old Testament itself is based on a jewish series of books which contains erotic poetry of a fairly pornographic kind.

I'd say the answer to pornography of the dismissive kind that wipes away the human being beyond a sexual object can largely be dealt with by a better education for young people in what constitutes a valuable relationship with another human being. If young people are brought up not to see a mingling of sex and pornography in the same corner then surely they can tell the difference between a valued relationship and one built only on use?

We're back to inadequate or absent education again by parents. If parents don't overcome their own hangups about helping their kids to understand what a valued relationship with another human being is either sexually or emotionally then it is likely they'll just pass on their own hangups to their kids.

This isn't just a male issue.

TotalMayhem
05-07-2011, 10:00 AM
Not a fan of Karl Rove, but he's got a point when he says that "Naomi Wolf goes batshit crazy ".

Holly
05-07-2011, 10:31 AM
There is no scientific evidence to support this American feminist's notion.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
05-07-2011, 10:47 AM
American feminists generally invent their own I find... probably will draw fire for that one but the dafter they get the more publicity they get so it pays in the US to be dramatic and logical backup or argumentation doesn't matter all that much- hence Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin.

If there was a rule (not just for feminists) that statements of fact from experts had to be examined for robust argumentation before publication in the media we'd live in a quieter and saner world.

TotalMayhem
05-07-2011, 10:53 AM
Naomi, it's about time to buy some cats (http://www.rooshv.com/naomi-wolf-is-a-delusional-old-hag). :D

Captain Con O'Sullivan
05-07-2011, 11:12 AM
The odd thing is that they do more damage to the real work required by practical feminists by coming out with some of the obvious daftnesses they do.. walk straight into the arms of the waiting chauvinists and put off any wider support they might have received even from females I suspect.

smiles
05-07-2011, 02:30 PM
At the risk of startling the politically correct wing isn't all pornography a kind of violence? It is certainly a downgrading of a human being to an object.

I wonder sometimes how much the culture of viewing all sexual matters as something hidden and to be dealt with only in the dark- this culture certainly still exists- contributes to the culture of pornography?

Pornography can sometimes be art. The Old Testament itself is based on a jewish series of books which contains erotic poetry of a fairly pornographic kind.

I'd say the answer to pornography of the dismissive kind that wipes away the human being beyond a sexual object can largely be dealt with by a better education for young people in what constitutes a valuable relationship with another human being. If young people are brought up not to see a mingling of sex and pornography in the same corner then surely they can tell the difference between a valued relationship and one built only on use?

We're back to inadequate or absent education again by parents. If parents don't overcome their own hangups about helping their kids to understand what a valued relationship with another human being is either sexually or emotionally then it is likely they'll just pass on their own hangups to their kids.

This isn't just a male issue.

+++1

Absolutely

morticia
05-07-2011, 10:29 PM
We're back to inadequate or absent education again by parents. If parents don't overcome their own hangups about helping their kids to understand what a valued relationship with another human being is either sexually or emotionally then it is likely they'll just pass on their own hangups to their kids.

This isn't just a male issue.

No, it isn't. Just out of interest, I wonder has anyone done any studies on the effects of chick lit and similar movies on the female brain?? While it isn't porn in most cases, one could accuse it of fostering unrealistic attitudes to relations with the opposite sex in an analogous manner.

But the hangups were all there for a damn good reason....protecting property rights. There's a damn good reason JC barely mentions sexual morality, but the Catholic church in particular has made an utter fetish of it.

Human biology hides ovulation. So it's very easy for women to get away with all sorts of things, in theory. And that's not great if inheritance is traditionally through the male line. Solution; lock 'em up and brain wash 'em! However, the rate of non paternity in the US is estimated at 10% (notably, 1% amongst the wealthiest and 30% amongst the poorest). Well, I suppose they at least have the guts to go looking at the figures

Captain Con O'Sullivan
05-07-2011, 10:39 PM
It seems to be one of those automatic assumptions that pornography and characterisation of gender is only regarded as being one way. The chick-lit thing is a bit of a weird one in that it does seem to reinforce the stereotypes.

Which reminds me that its almost time for the annual Daily Maile 'Female' section to run the traditional silly season chestnut of profiling a previously high flying careerist female who has turned her back on all that and has gone completely to the stay-at-home mother lifestyle- and how happy she is now compared to then.... its a banker story for the Daily Mail and they run a few of those in the silly season every year! ;)

Cáthasaigh
05-07-2011, 11:18 PM
Any of you listen to that SOAD song which covered this topic about 4 or 5 years ago?

Ah Well
05-07-2011, 11:49 PM
Support the troops ...

http://artsyspot.com/img/fun/the-funniest-of-all-times/the-funniest-of-all-times31.jpg

Cáthasaigh
06-07-2011, 12:35 AM
Indeed.

morticia
06-07-2011, 06:49 AM
In fairness to the troops, I can imagine lookin' at a bunch of people (women and Al Qaeda fugitives) in burqas all day would lack a certain je ne sais qoi......and after all, didn't Osama have a collection of his own?

duḃṫaċ
06-07-2011, 07:08 AM
I think the below sums up issues from both sides of gender divide -- though you could replace Disney with Chic-lit

http://brilliantbuttrash.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/disney.jpg?w=550&h=550

Trow
06-07-2011, 05:00 PM
I think pornography has moved sex from the Spiritual experience to the Physical.

The availability/easy access to it can in some cases i believe pervert peoples perceptions of what the sexual experience/encounter should be about.

It borders on perversion and can give the perception that women in particular are sex objects.

Holly
06-07-2011, 05:04 PM
i think pornography has moved sex from the spiritual experience to the physical.
....

lol

Trow
06-07-2011, 05:11 PM
I think pornography has moved sex from the Spiritual experience to the Physical..


lol

:) I know. But what's wrong with performing sex with a bit of loving Spirituality? All pornography portrays is wham bam i'm yer man.

Not enough true loving in the World.

Laugh at that.

Seán Ryan
06-07-2011, 06:14 PM
Far be it from me to be outrageous. But Women are sexual objects.

The thing is of course, that they're not only sexual objects, they're many other things too. In fairness, in the heat of passion, one doesn't care to hear about how beautiful a mind one has, how nice the dinner was :) , or how compatible one is with one's partner due to the shared love of stamps and what have you.

Men are sexual objects too of course. One might suggest, without too much contradiction, that men are more sexual objects than anything else.

Pornography, is responsible for this and that. What poppycock :)

I'm with Bill Hicks. Pornography is not responsible for erections. Erections are responsible for pornography. Reminiscent of the ole "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Only this time the answer's much easier to come to.

We always look for something beyond ourselves for our transgressions. Be it God, drink or porn.

I'm also with Hicks in how he describes pornography: pornography is something that causes sexual desire but has no artistic merit - advertising!

Our whole society is geared to display each of the sexes as sexual objects, from infancy. The outrageously proportioned Barbie for the chicks and Action Man (or whatever's current) for the lads (or more correctly, vice versa). However, the irony and outrage arrives when one vocalises and explains the intent to objectify. Tis messed up beyond belief.

Where's the romance in me, one might ask. I enjoy romance. But isn't it foreplay?

Then again, maybe I'm just a sexist pig, that has missed out somehow on the metaphysics of the finer and often superior, fairer sex.

Sam Lord
06-07-2011, 08:14 PM
Far be it from me to be outrageous. But Women are sexual objects. The thing is of course, that they're not only sexual objects, they're many other things too ..

I'm not sure you are using "sexual object" in the same sense that critics of pornography do. In my understanding sexual objectification means treating someone as entirely a source of sexual gratification. Yet you add "not only...many other things ..". Your "sexual object" seems to be anyone who has sex which is pretty tautological. You might as well assert that women are human beings.



In fairness, in the heat of passion, one doesn't care to hear about how beautiful a mind one has, how nice the dinner was :) , or how compatible one is with one's partner due to the shared love of stamps and what have you.


Some would say that the greater the non physical connection is the better the sexual experience. And that having sex with someone you love and respect and who loves you is a better experience that having sex with a brasser ... precisely because of the emotional connection. Or do you think good sex is simply a matter of technique?




I'm with Bill Hicks. Pornography is not responsible for erections. Erections are responsible for pornography.


Well porn can cause erections there is no doubt but where the line that erections are responsible for pornography comes from I can't understand. It seems to be a nonsensical play with words. Arson is not responsible for fire but fire is responsible for arson?




Where's the romance in me, one might ask. I enjoy romance. But isn't it foreplay?


Possibly. But what does that have to do with pornography?




Then again, maybe I'm just a sexist pig, that has missed out somehow on the metaphysics of the finer and often superior, fairer sex.

It's possible but I hope not.

truth.ie
06-07-2011, 09:04 PM
Whatever became of the Feminist stance of promoting women in pornography and stripping etc as a form of female empowerment?
Wasn't that view all the rage at some point in the 80s?
I think the emergence of internet porn is definately having an effect of attitudes.
Youth are being introduced to it at a much earlier stage, and the guilt factor of ogling is diminishing.
Proof of effects. Rise in teenage pregnancys, abortions and huge rise in STD's.
Nobody even talks about condoms these days.
Government sponsored safe sex ad's used to be run on every break, when I was a teen.
Why not now?

Griska
06-07-2011, 09:57 PM
Feminists did have an argument about women in pornos, but not where they are just "taking it" from the man.

Naomi contradicts herself when she states that porn is causing impotence and premature ejaculation in men, due to desensitisation.
The two would seem to me to be polar opposites, with "early arrival" the result of oversensitisation.

I do worry about the lyrics in some songs, these days.
Teenage boys listening about bitches and ho's (hoes?) and what the pimp hero is going to do to them makes me uneasy.
I remember as a teenager, sitting with my friends asking questions about songs like "do you think David Byrne is being descriptive or is that a metaphor for middle America?"!

Sam Lord
06-07-2011, 10:05 PM
I remember as a teenager, sitting with my friends asking questions about songs like "do you think David Byrne is being descriptive or is that a metaphor for middle America?"!

:)

Seán Ryan
06-07-2011, 10:32 PM
I'm not sure you are using "sexual object" in the same sense that critics of pornography do. In my understanding sexual objectification means treating someone as entirely a source of sexual gratification. Yet you add "not only...many other things ..". Your "sexual object" seems to be anyone who has sex which is pretty tautological. You might as well assert that women are human beings.

I think you're developing and exploring the very point I was making. Though I think you might not necessarily see it that way. I should say before I continue, that I, for the most part, dislike pornography. But not for the reasons anti-pornographers tend to rate as being highly important in their arguments. I'll go into that a bit, shortly.

I reckon that it's downright nigh impossible, short of having an incredibly low IQ or an incredibly low self esteem to be able to completely divorce the sex object nature of a woman from her other qualities and attributes. But I see nothing wrong whatsoever in sexually objectifying a woman, to what ever degree one is capable of doing so, so long as morality and decency are not offended. To see a beautiful woman and immediately lose one's IQ and sight of the fact that this creature is most probably sentient, has needs, hangups, strengths and passions, is a very natural thing. The anti-pornographers and self proclaimed moralists (the church for example) would have us believe that this is immoral. I'd suggest that the context and how one acted in this situation is what could produce immorality.


Some would say that the greater the non physical connection is the better the sexual experience. And that having sex with someone you love and respect and who loves you is a better experience that having sex with a brasser ... precisely because of the emotional connection. Or do you think good sex is simply a matter of technique?

I'm not sure that there is any singular answer to that. I suppose that you even presuppose that in the way you worded the question. Everyone is different and indeed every person, themselves, have no fixed definition with regard to this. A long time ago, I was a musician and a pretty good one at that. One night stands happened. And for the most part the sexual experience was amazing. These days, I couldn't do a one night stand or have a sexual encounter with a stranger. Well I suppose that I could, but I wouldn't. I want more than just the gratification. And I know that the way of my youth doesn't take me there. This isn't to say that I didn't have any committed relationships in my youth, I most certainly did. It's the variety that has facilitated me knowing exactly what it is I like.

There is the other road that your question roars down. Is sex in a loving relationship better than sex with a stranger to be? Sometimes! It's easier to be intimate with someone you know, love and trust; sex can be approached with abandon. Make sure those light fittings are well secured! Some folks can reach that level of intimacy without the need to know their partner as well. I think it's primarily an issue rooted in one's own self esteem and confidence level.


Well porn can cause erections there is no doubt but where the line that erections are responsible for pornography comes from I can't understand. It seems to be a nonsensical play with words. Arson is not responsible for fire but fire is responsible for arson?

I think this particular part gets to the very heart of the OP's question. Let's replace the word "erection" with the word "madness." I would suggest that it's perfectly okay to suggest that pornography can produce madness. But I would argue that it would be more correct to say that it is the madness itself, that is fundamentally responsible for the production of pornography in the first instance. The pornography satisfies a need or a market. Although I'd not suggest that it fully satisfies. And therein lies my gripe with pornography. I'd argue completely the counter of the argument of the anti-pornographers. I'd say that it does not produce a race of rock hard, objectifying and abusive men. If it satisfies that madness, it takes from women the ability to provide this satisfaction. As for the abusive element, I'd argue that this element is strictly tied to the individual and that one should no more blame pornography for it than one should blame a rape victim. To me it's important to not needlessly mitigate the criminality and the immorality of an immoral person.


Possibly. But what does that have to do with pornography?

It has both everything and nothing to do with it. It's not my desire to be ambiguous here, but ambiguity is at the very heart of what I'm getting at. On the one hand, romance most certainly has sexual connotations associated with it, indeed with each and every aspect of it. On the other hand, romance can be a very separate entity with it's own objectives and gratifications, where sexual satisfaction doesn't intrude at all. What I'm really getting at is the idea that it would be very easy to transfer all the arguments the anti-pornographers use and apply them to the subject of romance. They'd all fit. But it wouldn't seem right! Which brings me to the very last thing I said. To describe a woman as the fairer sex is to objectify her. But I did add that bit about the metaphysical. To objectify her is not to know her and I'd say that's a given. Bible experts often point out that the word "know" or "knew" is often used in place of the word "shagged." To me, this is where both the moralists and the anti-pornographers meet and mutually destruct. It is why one cannot ever fully objectify another. It's why we try. One can never fully know another. And therein is why the journey itself is boundlessly more important and satisfying than the destination.


It's possible but I hope not.
I kinda hope not myself. But I cannot be my own judge.

Sam Lord
06-07-2011, 11:08 PM
To see a beautiful woman and immediately lose one's IQ and sight of the fact that this creature is most probably sentient, has needs, hangups, strengths and passions, is a very natural thing. The anti-pornographers and self proclaimed moralists (the church for example) would have us believe that this is immoral. I'd suggest that the context and how one acted in this situation is what could produce immorality.


I think the fact that one may lose sight of certain things on seeing a beautiful woman presupposes that one understood these things previously and has the ability to regain that understanding. I think one of the problems people have with pornography is that it is pretty much devoid of any such understanding.





I'm not sure that there is any singular answer to that. I suppose that you even presuppose that in the way you worded the question. Everyone is different and indeed every person, themselves, have no fixed definition with regard to this.

[.....]

Is sex in a loving relationship better than sex with a stranger to be? Sometimes! It's easier to be intimate with someone you know, love and trust; sex can be approached with abandon. Make sure those light fittings are well secured! Some folks can reach that level of intimacy without the need to know their partner as well. I think it's primarily an issue rooted in one's own self esteem and confidence level.



I suppose I would have to accept this. I'll bow to your experience in any case. :)




I think this particular part gets to the very heart of the OP's question. Let's replace the word "erection" with the word "madness." I would suggest that it's perfectly okay to suggest that pornography can produce madness. But I would argue that it would be more correct to say that it is the madness itself, that is fundamentally responsible for the production of pornography in the first instance. The pornography satisfies a need or a market. Although I'd not suggest that it fully satisfies. And therein lies my gripe with pornography. I'd argue completely the counter of the argument of the anti-pornographers. I'd say that it does not produce a race of rock hard, objectifying and abusive men. If it satisfies that madness, it takes from women the ability to provide this satisfaction. As for the abusive element, I'd argue that this element is strictly tied to the individual and that one should no more blame pornography for it than one should blame a rape victim. To me it's important to not needlessly mitigate the criminality and the immorality of an immoral person.


I'm not sure that I really understand this. And let me say at this stage that I have never really considered the matter in any sort of depth. But I would share the general unease another poster expressed about a certain culture and attitudes that seems to be growing more prevelant in society.

If you are saying that pornography is just a symptom of some deeper problem in society then I would instinctively agree.




What I'm really getting at is the idea that it would be very easy to transfer all the arguments the anti-pornographers use and apply them to the subject of romance. They'd all fit.

I'm not sure you are right here. I think what most people who are opposed to pornography would argue is that it has really little to do with sex but is about power.

Griska
06-07-2011, 11:29 PM
Sam and Sean,

Aren't you really talking about "normal" (whatever that means) urges, interactions and relationships, though.

It's perfectly natural to feel physical attraction for a stranger on a bus or train.
I have no interest in pornography, but have of course seen some.

No porn I've seen depicts people with a mutual attraction going home and getting jiggly.

Seán Ryan
06-07-2011, 11:39 PM
I think the fact that one may lose sight of certain things on seeing a beautiful woman presupposes that one understood these things previously and has the ability to regain that understanding. I think one of the problems people have with pornography is that it is pretty much devoid of any such understanding.

I'd agree with that but would add that pornography is pretty much self-evidently devoid of this understanding and that would be the point. Pornography gives no more than it shows. The anti-pornographers tend to argue that this is how we objectify women. Abusive people most certainly do this. I'd argue that the reason that they do this is not to be found in some alleged inability to distinguish between porn and person.


I'm not sure that I really understand this. And let me say at this stage that I have never really considered the matter in any sort of depth. But I would share the general unease another poster expressed about a certain culture and attitudes that seems to be growing more prevelant in society.

If you are saying that pornography is just a symptom of some deeper problem in society then I would instinctively agree.

I'm absolutely saying that it's symptomatic as opposed to being causal, generally.


I'm not sure you are right here. I think what most people who are opposed to pornography would argue is that it has really little to do with sex but is about power.

There are very few interactions that humans have with each other that neither introduce some sort of power struggle nor finalise one. Sex is mined with power struggles. And not necessarily domination biased either. To lose one's self in another is both being vulnerable and a display of power. The exercise of power without consent is abuse, at the very least. And porn, if one only looks at the final product, there is no real power play there. On the other hand, the production of porn, is entirely another matter and is possibly outside the scope of the OP or would lead the discussion well away from where we're at presently. I'd say generally that the power argument would be better suited to a discussion on rapists and other such low life and that bringing in porn and its adherents into the fray needlessly complicates the issue to its detriment.

Seán Ryan
06-07-2011, 11:47 PM
Sam and Sean,

Aren't you really talking about "normal" (whatever that means) urges, interactions and relationships, though.

It's perfectly natural to feel physical attraction for a stranger on a bus or train.
I have no interest in pornography, but have of course seen some.

No porn I've seen depicts people with a mutual attraction going home and getting jiggly.

:) The "whatever that means" bit covers a lot of ground including the abnormal. The imagination is the only real limit I think. My fear is that if one defines a limit via some argument about pornography, one necessarily segregates folks who've no sins to answer for. To me, as long as a relationship is based upon consent and those involved can legally and mentally give that consent, they should do whatever floats their boats and apologise to nobody.

Methinks if you were to take a camera and film mutually attracted folks going home and gettin' jiggly, you'd be producing porn. And if you'd received consent to do so, it'd even be legal, probably :)

Griska
07-07-2011, 12:26 AM
:) The "whatever that means" bit covers a lot of ground including the abnormal. The imagination is the only real limit I think. My fear is that if one defines a limit via some argument about pornography, one necessarily segregates folks who've no sins to answer for. To me, as long as a relationship is based upon consent and those involved can legally and mentally give that consent, they should do whatever floats their boats and apologise to nobody.

Methinks if you were to take a camera and film mutually attracted folks going home and gettin' jiggly, you'd be producing porn. And if you'd received consent to do so, it'd even be legal, probably :)

I think you're correct.
If there is a porn best-selling/most viewed chart though, I suspect it would chart fairly low (if at all).

smiles
07-07-2011, 12:57 AM
I think pornography has moved sex from the Spiritual experience to the Physical.

The availability/easy access to it can in some cases i believe pervert peoples perceptions of what the sexual experience/encounter should be about.


I agree with this but most people, unfortunately for them, never consciously experience the spiritual element of combining female and masculine energies.. One of the most profound and blissful experiences we as humans can experience.
Sex, to some, is only the physical act, to some it's an emotional act or a combination of both. But to some of us it also incorporates "spirituality" (term open to interpretation) which when added opens a whole new dimension.
Pornography IMO keeps us stuck in the primal mode and if anyone is receiving their education from it (like many young people do) then they are closing themselves off to the actual experience in order to perform.

Sam Lord
07-07-2011, 01:12 AM
I agree with this but most people, unfortunately for them, never consciously experience the spiritual element of combining female and masculine energies.. One of the most profound and blissful experiences we as humans can experience.
Sex, to some, is only the physical act, to some it's an emotional act or a combination of both. But to some of us it also incorporates "spirituality" (term open to interpretation) which when added opens a whole new dimension.


Excuse my ignorance smiles but exactly how does that work ... I worried now I may be missing out on something. (and is that how you got your name?)

Trow
07-07-2011, 01:23 AM
Excuse my ignorance smiles but exactly how does that work ... I worried now I may be missing out on something.

Telling us you never had that loving feeling Sam? YouTube - ‪Righteous Brothers You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' (45 RPM)‬‏

Sam Lord
07-07-2011, 01:26 AM
Telling us you never had that loving feeling Sam? YouTube - ‪Righteous Brothers You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' (45 RPM)‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8hjtFq3vE0)

That is all emotion Trow.

I hoping someone was going to unveil a new third dimension to me....and unlock the secret of the universe.

Griska
07-07-2011, 01:36 AM
Righteous Brothers indeed.
Here's the Velvet Underground.
In the song Lou Reed is shooting heroin and sailors are "sucking" on his "ding dong".
Aural porn? Possibly.
But it's a great song.

YouTube - ‪The Velvet Underground - Sister Ray (full lenght)‬‏

smiles
07-07-2011, 01:43 AM
Excuse my ignorance smiles but exactly how does that work ... I worried now I may be missing out on something. (and is that how you got your name?)

Haha, not quite how I got my name but one of the reasons I'll be keeping it :D

I guess the most commonly known practise is Tantra and what I am referring to is similar in alot of ways. But I'm not one to limit myself into any one tradition or discipline.
Isn't quite the secret of the universe, but I've realised the most unexplored area of the universe is within ourselves :)

Sam Lord
07-07-2011, 01:57 AM
I guess the most commonly known practise is Tantra ...

Is that the Sting thing where he goes for like 10 hours and has dinner and watches a movie and reads a few chapters of War and Peace at the same time?

I'm not sure I'd have the time or the energy ....

Sam Lord
07-07-2011, 01:59 AM
Haha, not quite how I got my name but one of the reasons I'll be keeping it :D



I don't think I'll ever be able to look at your avatar again without wondering what exactly is going on out of view.

Trow
07-07-2011, 02:12 AM
That is all emotion Trow.

I hoping someone was going to unveil a new third dimension to me....and unlock the secret of the universe.

Shared basic emotions are important in relationships, Love leads to joy and trust.

If you are to reach that higher state of sexual bliss in a permanent/long term relationships i think trust is all important.

Patients is the key and if there's love and respect a gentle touch and kiss oils the lock.

Like picking locks, trial and error perfects technique. If it's a keypad lock then you've got to push the right buttons.:)

On the issue of pornography, do you notice how much ''soft porn'' there is associated with song video's these days and sexually descriptive words?

I think from an early age society is exposed to it, it's even in advertising. Whether it's harmful or not is debatable but it's certainly used to sell by seizing on one of our basic human desires.

Don't mean to spam up your thread with youtube vid's but can i just post this one last song as an example?...My 6 year old boy used to sing it constantly...
YouTube - ‪Bloodhound Gang - The Bad Touch‬‏

Junius
07-07-2011, 08:36 AM
Shared basic emotions are important in relationships, Love leads to joy and trust.

If you are to reach that higher state of sexual bliss in a permanent/long term relationships i think trust is all important.

Patients is the key and if there's love and respect a gentle touch and kiss oils the lock.


This man will keep his wife even if he can't spell 'patience'. Far too many men don't know the difference between love and lust and wonder why their wives leave them. Respect and kindness are a much greater turn-on than anything porn can ever produce. ;):)

Captain Con O'Sullivan
07-07-2011, 09:46 AM
I notice porn seems to be about offhand or casual trysting in the main ... old enough to know that there is a period in relationships where the sex actually gets better when you get to know someone over time- and then life sets in and discovery becomes habitual both emotionally and physically.

Thats from my experience anyway- the one night standers are never as good as the midpoint in a relationship when there is a nice balance past the getting to know someone stage and before the 'in-laws' start making their presence felt;)

Griska
07-07-2011, 11:34 AM
Thats from my experience anyway- the one night standers are never as good as the midpoint in a relationship when there is a nice balance

That's because one night stands make baby Jesus cry.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
07-07-2011, 11:39 AM
******** to babby jesus...

Griska
07-07-2011, 11:41 AM
******** to babby jesus...

And yet he speaks very highly of you, Captain.

TotalMayhem
07-07-2011, 07:09 PM
The Irish Examiner is on the ball... special investigation starts tomorrow:

How is porn affecting today's teens? (http://www.irishexaminer.com/flat.aspx?i=teenspecialreport)

Captain Con O'Sullivan
07-07-2011, 07:11 PM
Will they have a quote from this year's Macra na Feirme Hot Shtuff in a bikini draped across a Massey Ferguson?:)

morticia
07-07-2011, 07:30 PM
Will they have a quote from this year's Macra na Feirme Hot Shtuff in a bikini draped across a Massey Ferguson?:)

ooh, actually, could we have some semi clad muscle men draped on that tractor too......ah stop it Capn, my thoughts are being Led Astray...

fluffybiscuits
23-09-2011, 01:27 PM
Just caught this as I was flicking through the pages and thought I would throw my hat in! I dont think porn has desensetised men in any way in fact I think it acts as an outlet for their emotional and fantasy side that we all have and no person here can deny that. Humans are sexual beings,we all have needs of intimacy to a varying degree from person to person and at times porn can fulfill this need I believe. Recently Accord , the Catholic marriage agency (lol) said that porn and internet gambling addiciton were causing marriages to fail. I would imagine its more down to financial woes and lack of communication but then again this is conservative RCC driven organisation saying this so I am not really inclined to believe anything they say as they are religious in views and therefore biased I believe....

Captain Con O'Sullivan
23-09-2011, 02:11 PM
I'd beware of catholic marriage advisory charities as it wasn't so long ago that their line was the priest line in looking past bruises on a woman's face and telling her she had to go back to a violent husband in case the holy spook broke down in tears- the bastards.

Its true what fluffy says there- whats the old phrase- 'when money troubles walk in the door love goes out the window'?

As for porn I don't think there is any issue with it- female or male oriented or in the great mosaic of human endeavour in between. I think the problem comes with not being able to tell the difference in a relationship that objectifies someone and a relationship of value in a person.

That is down to parenting and answering questions when a child is trying to figure out relationships and the whole area of sexuality.

Resounding silence from parents on these things leaves fertile ground for misapprehension and a place for objectification to grow unhindered.

fluffybiscuits
23-09-2011, 03:00 PM
I'd beware of catholic marriage advisory charities as it wasn't so long ago that their line was the priest line in looking past bruises on a woman's face and telling her she had to go back to a violent husband in case the holy spook broke down in tears- the bastards.

Its true what fluffy says there- whats the old phrase- 'when money troubles walk in the door love goes out the window'?

As for porn I don't think there is any issue with it- female or male oriented or in the great mosaic of human endeavour in between. I think the problem comes with not being able to tell the difference in a relationship that objectifies someone and a relationship of value in a person.

That is down to parenting and answering questions when a child is trying to figure out relationships and the whole area of sexuality.

Resounding silence from parents on these things leaves fertile ground for misapprehension and a place for objectification to grow unhindered.

Spot on there Cptn, I think the fact that where the issues lie in a troubled marriage is when the finances are tight one person becomes worried and the other does too and as a result it creates a boiling cauldron of resentment and this in turn leads to issues in the bedroom. Your other point is correct as well, porn is an outlet and should not been seen as a substitute for real life relationships/***** buddies/F.W.B. or whatever the person is in to except if the person is asexual.

Parents need to talk to their kids about sex. I was reading in ther Herag (Heald) that there is a drop in teenage pregnancies thanks to sex education.

Brehon
23-09-2011, 03:49 PM
Apart from the objectification, power discourses in this subject matter, one has to look at the time an individual is spending their time involved in porn activities. Is it once a year or every night? Are people spending money? The question arises is if they weren't viewing/using porn what would they be doing? Maybe interacting with wives, family, friends, community, while it's a sensitive subject, is some obsessed with gaming, spending long hours shooting people, building farms, do the same thing, take them away from real life? It is destructive escapism as opposed to constructive escapism. Some men have real hobbies where they create things, invent things, manage sports teams, volunteer for things. That is one of the problems with pornography. The objectification of women and men in media devalues human worth for the sake of selling something in a few seconds. But maybe Freud was right and it's an expressway into our subconscious.

fluffybiscuits
23-09-2011, 03:56 PM
It is destructive escapism as opposed to constructive escapism? I believe for people its constructive escapism, it gives them a chance to indulge themselves for a few minutes in activities that appeal their subconscious that otherwise other people may feel are depraved. There is fetishes out there (feeding, leather etc etc. ) that people would be shocked to know others like and porn gives them an outlet for this. If anything once their mind has been taken off after a few minutes of self pleasure they can be devoted to anything ! To show how open Dublin is becoming sexually, there is a fetish night called Niamhnach that I know my cousin goes to and there is another leather night starting up this month in Temple Bar!

Captain Con O'Sullivan
23-09-2011, 06:24 PM
I think as a nation we've had some spectacular hangups about sex (and I won't go on about where that came from as its not appropriate to the thread).

The damage done to successive generations of Irish men and women by being taught to be ashamed of sex is staggering to consider. It is a healthy activity and much of the dangers of it to young people as they develop can be ameliorated by removing the mystery- has to be done delicately like but I do think there is a case for a kind of Russian doll approach in that children who are quite young and becoming curious and asking awkward questions can be told in a matter of fact way what the functions of things are and where babies come from in a non-spectacular way.

I've been able to compare the awkwardness of my parents' 50's generation with a generation of kids now growing and being told quite matter of factly the functions of the body and at the same time being helped to understand that seeing another person as a sexual object only is very one-dimensional and a bit poverty stricken intellectually gives me some ability to compare.

I think it is the most vital thing in the world that a child knows they can ask any question in that area without fear of feeling they've done something bad by asking their Mam or Dad. Get a kid trusting their parent in that area and I'd say you have a lot of potential evils avoided.

Can be quite rewarding too- my sister keeps me up to date with the questions asked by my little nephew and its gas the things he asks. After asking what his peepee was for he absorbed the information quietly for a moment and then asked a follow-up question- "But its a very nice peepee isn't it?"

The sister had to keep a straight face and agree that in fact it was. Off he went and the sister had to run upstairs to double over laughing with the hankie in her mouth.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
23-09-2011, 06:30 PM
Bit of a digression there but pornography- I'm quite interested in the categories. I find some of them a bit worrying- and plenty more a bit mystifying in the attraction to be honest. Quite an interesting area though and I wonder how people end up attracted to one sexual behaviour or mode in pornography as opposed to another.

fluffybiscuits
25-09-2011, 05:00 PM
Why do we have hang ups? Well it was as you said a generational thing for years we had so many hang ups and sex was done with the lights or the wife would fulfill her marital duties to the husband and that was it , nothing else was discussed. As the sixties came along people became more and more liberated and we had the free love as distinct from the clamming up of the fifties. The church was to blame for this scaring people half to death with such rubbish as masturbating was evil and remember the furore over the Late Late and one woman said she didnt wear a nightie in bed and the local bishop kicked up!

On the matter of sexual fetishes, Freud said or believed it was from watching our parents aving sex and the aspects of our childhood that manifested itself sexually later on. How this is meant to be I am mystified but I remember someone asking me to send them pictures on a dating website years ago of me wearing gloves! I said no!

Buddha
25-09-2011, 07:22 PM
That word is in itself now associated with evil doings. Sexual activities would be better. Sexual behavior, like all behavior differs, depending on the person performing, their likes and wants and needs. Like any other pursuit, it is perfectly natural, unless one is being forced to act in a way that offends them. That is then criminal.

Personally, I have always preferred a good book. But then, I did marry an Englishman.

Kev Bar
25-09-2011, 08:13 PM
Why do we have hang ups? I remember someone asking me to send them pictures on a dating website years ago of me wearing gloves! I said no!

Well done Fluffy. You have to draw a line somewhere. Before you know it, they'll be asking for you to take them off.

fluffybiscuits
25-09-2011, 09:38 PM
Well done Fluffy. You have to draw a line somewhere. Before you know it, they'll be asking for you to take them off.

Well just a case in point just had a browse and that fetish is well catered for :eek:;)

random new yorker
26-09-2011, 04:07 AM
Geez! even a thread on pornography is enlightening in this Forum!! :D

Count Bobulescu
12-10-2012, 07:57 PM
Just what you’ve been waiting for..............The next big thing..............ethical porn.



Come4.org's FAQ includes the question "Is pornography intrinsically bad?"
Their answer is no, but with the substantial caveat that any argument defending the current state of Internet porn is tenuous at best.


Many people consuming free pornography think that the only risk they may run into is that of being discovered by others. This idea, however, is not just naïve, but also wrong, for the current model of consuming online sexual content has many negative implications for all of us.

They're referring to people being exploited and business models "subjugat[ing] our sexual imagination to marketing standards." By redirecting revenues to charities and letting a flow of ethical user-uploaded videos shape and drive their new site, though, creators Riccardo Zilli, Marco Annoni, and Daniele Marucci believe they can foster a healthy culture that "reflects the natural plurality of human sexuality."
As Annoni puts it, "The time has come to rethink, critically, the relationship between the Internet and sexuality, in its impact, role, form, and scope."
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/10/pornography-for-a-better-tomorrow/263493/

Saoirse go Deo
12-10-2012, 08:15 PM
I think they are reading far too much into it... most men just watch it in an emotionally detached way, have a wank, close the browser and forget about it (or have a catholic, guilt ridden cry). Sin é.

The only damage porn may be doing is giving young lads unrealistically high expectations about sex... (especially their first time) and giving them false impressions of what size the average manhood is.

fluffybiscuits
13-10-2012, 04:12 PM
I think they are reading far too much into it... most men just watch it in an emotionally detached way, have a wank, close the browser and forget about it (or have a catholic, guilt ridden cry). Sin é.

The only damage porn may be doing is giving young lads unrealistically high expectations about sex... (especially their first time) and giving them false impressions of what size the average manhood is.

Couldnt have said it better myself. This whole argument of objectifying people and creating ethical porn is bullshit. Some of the criticism of Fifty Shades of Gray was that it was creating a lot of realistic expectations for some men, as if S &M was something was abnormal (it isnt, there is even a fetish night once a month in Dublin). Porn as logn as it is consenting adults over eighteen whom are involved has no business being regulated by the government.