Public-Service Offices - rented for billions.

[whydontwe]

Ok...maybe it's only multi-millions...but hey...how many of our relations/friends could be saved health-wise...ye know??
Why are these buildings being rented for decades...they could have built enough to accommodate the public-service ten times over...yes?
Seems some people are makin' a hell of a lot of money....no one out there interested in finding out who??

[C. Flower]

Ok...maybe it's only multi-millions...but hey...how many of our relations/friends could be saved health-wise...ye know??
Why are these buildings being rented for decades...they could have built enough to accommodate the public-service ten times over...yes?
Seems some people are makin' a hell of a lot of money....no one out there interested in finding out who??

It's a very good question. The e-voting machines were stashed in storage provided at a high cost, with contracts taken out for far longer than made any sense. So far as I remember, some of the renters were "connected."

Of course, now we have acquired plenty of land and buildings scattered all over the country for decentralisation. In theory we should not need all of the Dublin offices any more ...

[duḃṫaċ]

The other example of someone making alot of money is with School prefabs. The rental bill for prefabs went from about €4 million a year in 2000 to close on €36m in 2008

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/soaring-rental-costs-for-school-prefabs-hit-836435m-1277897.html

To put this in perspective to build a 16 classroom school (2 classes per primary school year) for about €3million. They paid €80m between 2000 and 2006 in rental. That's enough to build between 20 and 25 such schools

[Sidewinder]

Long ago, pre-bubble, I heard it said that the total amount of corrupt pork being siphoned to Party backers for the rent of public buildings was around IR£500m a year. It was a massive, astonishing drain on the State coffers every year in those leaner times, but nothing could be done about it and anyone who asked questions about it within the public sector soon found their career going nowhere.

Probably a couple of billion eurons a year by now, I'd imagine.

[DCon]

Isn't Bernard McNamara a major beneficiary of this?

[PaddyJoe]

I vaguely heard something on the radio today about Museum storage in a building nears Swords and recalled that Gerry Gannon has a finger in that pie:

A TD last night demanded an explanation after a property tycoon who was bailed out by taxpayers has been awarded a EUR (http://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/EUR) EU

K Club co-owner Gerry Gannon's toxic loans are being absorbed by bad bank Nama - but the state is also about to write him an incredible EUR1million-a-year cheque for providing storage for the National Museum, The Irish Daily Mirror has learned.

The term of the contract is 20 years, meaning he will have earned EUR20million by 2030 on a site that will effectively be owned by taxpayers under Nama.

Mr Gannon paid just EUR12million for the storage site, meaning he is in line to make an EUR8million profit.

The bizarre deal caused a storm of criticism last night, with Labour's Joan Burton (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Joan+Burton) Joan Burton (Irish: Siobhan de Bhurtúin; born February, 1949) is an Irish Labour Party politician and in September 2007 is its Deputy Leader.
..... Click the link for more information. demanding the Office of Public Works (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Office+of+Public+Works) The Office of Public Works (OPW) (legally the Commissioners of Public Works in Ireland, though the full title is rarely used) is a State Agency of the Department of Finance in the Republic of Ireland. publishes the details of how its contract with Mr Gannon was negotiated.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Will+he+use+EUR20m+to+pay+off+his+%27toxic%27+loan +to+Nama%3F+GANNON%27S...-a0219972683

[whydontwe]

The other example of someone making alot of money is with School prefabs. The rental bill for prefabs went from about €4 million a year in 2000 to close on €36m in 2008

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/soaring-rental-costs-for-school-prefabs-hit-836435m-1277897.html

To put this in perspective to build a 16 classroom school (2 classes per primary school year) for about €3million. They paid €80m between 2000 and 2006 in rental. That's enough to build between 20 and 25 such schools

Yes lads....let's hope this doesnt get lost in the 'usual' 'boredom' of many threads....this needs to be pursued ! And re the pre-fabs...I'm on record for years trying to estblish the beneficiaries in that regard...democracy?? If we don't reclaim it...we may give up this site...and all others like it...I'm just fed-up to me teeth with this crap...am I the only one?? Have to go n have nightmares now (again)...here's hoping this question continues tomorrow. G'night all.

[duḃṫaċ]

Well as much as I hate the term "renting is dead money" when it comes to stuff like schools which will be used to provide multi-generational services to the community I definetly think it's better to spend the money providing the resources then blowing it on renting prefabs which the state don't even get to own.

As mentioned 3-4million to build a brand new state of art 16 classroom school. Imagine the amount of school extensions to existing schools that could be provided instead of having prefabs in the yard for 10 years!

[DCon]

I vaguely heard something on the radio today about Museum storage in a building nears Swords and recalled that Gerry Gannon has a finger in that pie:



NAMA serving its purpose quite successfully it seems.

[whydontwe]

Ok...back to the trenches; how do we find out who owns the rented pre-fabs...all the govt agency rented buildings....and who exactly benefits from such exorbitant renting?? We know the tax-payer is paying for all this...so why can't we know who benefits?

[DCon]

These figures may be outdated


TOP FIVE MOST EXPENSIVE BUILDINGS LEASED BY THE STATE

Department of Energy and Natural Resources HQ, Adelaide Road, Dublin. Rent: €2.97 million. Landlord: Anglo Irish Assurance

Molesworth Buildings, Dublin 2. Rented by departments of Finance, Foreign Affairs, Transport and the Oireachtas. Rent: €2.3 million. Landlord: Irish Airlines Pensions Ltd & AGS (ROI) Pensions Nominees

Lower Grand Canal Street, Dublin 2. Used by Civil Service and Local Appointment Commissioners and other agencies. Rent: €1.9 million. Landlord: Tom and Deirdre Jones, Nutley Ave, Donnybrook, Dublin 4

Harcourt Square, Block 2. Rented by An Garda Síochána. Rent: €1.8 million. Landlord: Alvergold Ltd

13-15 Parnell Square, Parnell House, Dublin 1. Rent: €1.8 million. Landlord: Alstead Securities Ltd


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1004/1224280311854.html



The taxpayer is paying more than €122m every year to property developers, private individuals and major companies. The massive rental bill is paid out across more than 500 properties spread right across the state, the Office of Public Works has said.


Amongst the biggest beneficiaries of the lease agreements – many of which run for up to 35 years and cannot be renegotiated now to reflect falling rental values – is the property developer Liam Carroll. He and his wife Roisín rake in more than €3m-per-year for properties at Chapter House on Capel St in Dublin's city centre.

A nearby office block on Strand St is also rented to the Office of Public Works for an annual fee of €265,675.

Through his company Danninger, Carroll also pockets a further €766,475 in taxpayers' money for the lease of a property called King's Inn House on Parnell St. The developer also gets €2m a year for a block in George's Court in Smithfield, records from the Office of Public Works show.

Another well-known property developer, Bernard McNamara, also rents a substantial number of office blocks to the state. Bell Trap, a company with which he and developer Jerry O'Reilly are involved, has €4.2m worth of leases with the government for offices at Bishops Square in Dublin.

http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/dec/13/public-paying-122m-in-rent-to-developers/


It’s hard to disconnect a fact the less you owe the more they chase you, from the more you owe the more you get from taxpayer. Derek Quinlan, who fled to Switzerland, has been employed by the state to collect overdue fines imposed by the courts. This ‘tycoon’ whose debts are part of NAMA is now director of Tazbell, the company that received the contract from the Dept of Justice.

Another company Treasure Holdings behind the National Convention Centre, receives payments of €2.5 million a month in rent from us. Johnny Ronan and Richard Barrett of Treasure Holdings also own the building NAMA pays rent to. In total state leases they will receive €50 million a year. Gerry Gannon has lucrative storage deal with art museum; he will gain €20 million by 2030.

While more people join the unemployment register, five million a year in rent is paid to developers for the use of their premises for social welfare offices. Bernard McNamara’s wife will get €100 million off the state from the lease for the social welfare office in Bishops Square.

http://www.swp.ie/editorial/one-law-rich-and-another-poor/3927


Browsing through SI 15/2010 a while ago I noticed many more companies within Anglo were falling under the Ethics in Public Office Act than previously.

I picked a random company from the list, Gertonabbey Limited, which now falls under that Act.

Gertonabbbey is part owned by Anglo Irish Bank. The company secretary for Gertonabbey is Natasha Mercer, who up until recently was also the company secretary for Anglo itself. The directors are Brian Gerard Spillane and Patrick Gerard Price. The ultimate owner of Gertonabbey (and Anglo is a shareholder) is Raycastle Limited, Bernard McNamara’s company. Gertonabby is a subsidiary of Radora Developments, which is a subsidiary of Raycastle.

Guess what Gertonabbey owns? 29-31 Adelaide Road, otherwise known as the building which houses the Department of Communications.

The taxpayer is paying €2.524m to rent the building to a combination of Anglo (the taxpayer) and Bernard McNamara.

Oh what a tangled web.

http://thestory.ie/2010/03/31/anglo-irish-bank-subsidiary-fun/

And, of course, the Glass Bottle site was the best!

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1018415.shtml

[whydontwe]

DCon, thanks for that. Can't say I'm at all surprised; What I am surprised ...and not a little disheartened at...is the lack of interest in this blatant 'shafting' of the tax-payer...and the apparent lack of focus by the readers of this site!! I've been observing the 'movements' /replies and observations re certain threads....Jesus Christ....I'd love to know, barring a very few exceptions....are all on this site employed by politicians or what's going on??

[Theresa]

DCon, thanks for that. Can't say I'm at all surprised; What I am surprised ...and not a little disheartened at...is the lack of interest in this blatant 'shafting' of the tax-payer...and the apparent lack of focus by the readers of this site!! I've been observing the 'movements' /replies and observations re certain threads....Jesus Christ....I'd love to know, barring a very few exceptions....are all on this site employed by politicians or what's going on??

It's as though there's a glaze spread all over the majority of the population. Whether it's "well, it's NIMBY so I don't care" or it's aspartame eating up brain cells or massive work induced depression, it is infuriating. There are so many absolutely insane things going on and so so so many people couldn't care less. When it directly affects them they may move.......................... but only when someone else starts it.

We have a society where few do everything. They are the ones on the residents association, the tidy towns, the parents association etc etc. The very ones that get slagged off by everyone. UNTIL something happens in their back yard. Then everyone comes to the very people they slag off and want to know what they are doing about it.

Disheartening :(

[whydontwe]

Theresa....thanks be to...well, whoever!! There's at least one more sentient/caring human left reading these threads! ....and yes...we know what's goin' on....but why are we not doing anything?? Thanks for your post.

[Sidewinder]

We have a society where few do everything. They are the ones on the residents association, the tidy towns, the parents association etc etc. The very ones that get slagged off by everyone. UNTIL something happens in their back yard. Then everyone comes to the very people they slag off and want to know what they are doing about it.

Oh so true.

It applies to every single place I've ever worked in Ireland too. A tiny number of people doing all the work, flat out and stressed, getting little pay and no thanks...while an army of moaning "entitled" ********* just sit around having meetings about meetings and talking about X-Factor....and loudly making sure everybody knows how "busy" they are and how much "work" they have to do.

And the quiet hardworking people are always to blame, always get the shitty end of the stick, always get more and more heaped on them without a words of thanks or appreciation, until they quietly crack and quit. Or are made a scapegoat for some *******-up by the idiots and get fired.

Let me think back over the last few companies I've worked in now....

1) 52 staff, by my reckoning only 11 did anything useful and all the rest were dead weight
2) 24 staff....now this one was interesting cos the place went bust bout 4 years back but a creditor believed there was a viable product line there and restarted with the essential staff...all 4 of us...place is still going today with 7 staff getting more done than the 24 used to!
3) 64 staff...slimmed down in a bit of a crisis round 2002 to 48...to be honest about 18-20 would have been sufficient!

Ireland is a woefully corrupt, almost psychotic, society, everyone is on the take, everyone is out to knife everyone else in the back for a fiver, everyone is out to freeload as much as they can on the backs of the "mugs" below them. You can't believe a word anyone tells you and you especially can't believe someone who tells you they've got your back no matter what the situation...everyone angling for position and trying to give off the appearance of superiority over their neighbours, everyone constantly playing political games and status-seeking maneuvers, and nobody with the slightest loyalty to anyone but themselves.

It's not a country, it's a nest of vipers.

[Sidewinder]

And that's why nothing gets done about these obvious, in-your-face, blatant scammery and dodgy dealings.

Because everyone in Ireland (well, about 90%) is just another wannabe Bertie. Everyone hopes to worm their way into a scam some day. Nobody wants to "upset the appletart" because then there'd be no way to trouser cash themselves off the sweat of others.

Crooks get elected because we admire crooks. We admire them! We want to be just like them! We hope to get a slice of the action for ourselves!

I really doubt at this stage if there is enough of a core of honest civic-minded people in Ireland to change this at all. The culture is just too rotten.