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View Full Version : Confidential e-mails reveal that the UK government worked with the nuclear industry to downplay effects of Fukushima



PaddyJoe
01-07-2011, 12:45 AM
Nothing to worry about so, chaps?

British government officials approached nuclear companies to draw up a co-ordinated public relations strategy to play down the Fukushima nuclear accident just two days after the earthquake and tsunami in Japan and before the extent of the radiation leak was known.

Internal emails seen by the Guardian show how the business and energy departments worked closely behind the scenes with the multinational companies EDF Energy, Areva and Westinghouse to try to ensure the accident did not derail their plans for a new generation of nuclear stations in the UK.

"This has the potential to set the nuclear industry back globally," wrote one official at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS), whose name has been redacted. "We need to ensure the anti-nuclear chaps and chapesses do not gain ground on this. We need to occupy the territory and hold it. We really need to show the safety of nuclear."

Officials stressed the importance of preventing the incident from undermining public support for nuclear power
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/30/british-government-plan-play-down-fukushima

C. Flower
01-07-2011, 12:55 AM
Nothing to worry about so, chaps?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/30/british-government-plan-play-down-fukushima

They all seem to have been very successful, as it seems there is a melt through situation in Fukushima and no on is reporting on it.

PaddyJoe
01-07-2011, 01:07 AM
From what I'm reading Fukushima is turning out to be worse than Chernobyl. There seems to be new horror stories every day but they don't appear to break through to the big main stream media.

Dr. FIVE
01-07-2011, 01:13 AM
Someone suggested perhaps wrapping Willie O'Dea's neck around the plant could contain the fall out.

PaddyJoe
01-07-2011, 01:15 AM
I'm reminded again of the Irish nuclear lobby group BENE who were just starting a massive campaign back in March when events in Japan set them back fairly badly.
I wonder would a freedom of info request to an Irish government dept. reveal similar correspondence?
Obviously BENE were galvanised back in March by the change of government and the departure of the Greens.
http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=7301

Captain Con O'Sullivan
01-07-2011, 05:44 AM
I'm not surprised about the official UK government messaging. They are facing possible power shortages by 2017/2018 and have to build nuclear stations. They don't have any choice. Its either be dependent on imports of oil and gas and becoming more so as old stations are decommissioned leaving them at the mercy of OPEC countries or Russia in terms of gas supplies across the eastern European pipeline. They'd be wide open to influence if they don't ensure independent national power supplies as north sea oil winds down.

They are past the critical stage in that calculation.

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 08:33 AM
I'm not surprised about the official UK government messaging. They are facing possible power shortages by 2017/2018 and have to build nuclear stations. They don't have any choice. Its either be dependent on imports of oil and gas and becoming more so as old stations are decommissioned leaving them at the mercy of OPEC countries or Russia in terms of gas supplies across the eastern European pipeline. They'd be wide open to influence if they don't ensure independent national power supplies as north sea oil winds down.

They are past the critical stage in that calculation.

But so would we 'COS' seeing as we sold our oil reserves to the highest bidder. Would we not be wide open to influence also?

Captain Con O'Sullivan
01-07-2011, 08:50 AM
Absolutely. Any country that does not have the capacity to power itself will be a dependent state shortly.

The UK made a huge strategic error during the Thatcher era of turning up one's nose at heavy industry in favour of white collar millionaire juju and while France was determined to wean itself off the heroin of OPEC oil by building enough nuclear power stations to cover 85% of France's energy needs the UK thought it was okay with North Sea oil which is now sucking air at the bottom of the tank.

Oil extraction companies wouldn't be spending large amounts of money on fracking processes if there were enough sustainable fields around.

So the UK in the last ten years has realised to its horror and following the alarming events of three or four years ago when Russia turned off the natural gas tap through the Balkans to Europe that it was in energy terms extremely vulnerable both to OPEC influence and Russia/eastern Europe.

In Ireland we have large oil and gas reserves off the west coast which could turn out to be as large as North Sea oil was for Britain. But some little Fianna Fail leprechauns got involved and it looks like they signed the worst kind of deal possible on behalf of the country.

We should throw Shell out of the Corrib basin immediately and do a deal based on percentages with Brazilian, Venezuelan, Russian or other experts on extraction. Off the west coast may be enough black gold and gas reserves to provide a basis for a new underpinning of the Republic's economy.

I think that possibility was given away by corrupt politicians. The deal as it currently stands looks appalling from Ireland's point of view. It may turn out to be as poor a deal as the Russians got for Alaska ($6million I think?).

Oh- and the deal signed by Irish 'representatives' with Shell should be openly published in its entirety and the bank accounts of those involved audited- with a search for foreign bank accounts not forgotten.

Nationalisation. A deal with Brazilian engineers. Publication of the Shell deal openly with a forensic audit of those involved in the current deal. And a firing squad should anything dodgy turn up for any of those involved accepting payments under the table or similar to do a 'soft' deal with national resources to a foreign private company.

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 09:32 AM
Absolutely. Any country that does not have the capacity to power itself will be a dependent state shortly.

The UK made a huge strategic error during the Thatcher era of turning up one's nose at heavy industry in favour of white collar millionaire juju and while France was determined to wean itself off the heroin of OPEC oil by building enough nuclear power stations to cover 85% of France's energy needs the UK thought it was okay with North Sea oil which is now sucking air at the bottom of the tank.

Oil extraction companies wouldn't be spending large amounts of money on fracking processes if there were enough sustainable fields around.

So the UK in the last ten years has realised to its horror and following the alarming events of three or four years ago when Russia turned off the natural gas tap through the Balkans to Europe that it was in energy terms extremely vulnerable both to OPEC influence and Russia/eastern Europe.

In Ireland we have large oil and gas reserves off the west coast which could turn out to be as large as North Sea oil was for Britain. But some little Fianna Fail leprechauns got involved and it looks like they signed the worst kind of deal possible on behalf of the country.

We should throw Shell out of the Corrib basin immediately and do a deal based on percentages with Brazilian, Venezuelan, Russian or other experts on extraction. Off the west coast may be enough black gold and gas reserves to provide a basis for a new underpinning of the Republic's economy.

I think that possibility was given away by corrupt politicians. The deal as it currently stands looks appalling from Ireland's point of view. It may turn out to be as poor a deal as the Russians got for Alaska ($6million I think?).

Oh- and the deal signed by Irish 'representatives' with Shell should be openly published in its entirety and the bank accounts of those involved audited- with a search for foreign bank accounts not forgotten.

Nationalisation. A deal with Brazilian engineers. Publication of the Shell deal openly with a forensic audit of those involved in the current deal. And a firing squad should anything dodgy turn up for any of those involved accepting payments under the table or similar to do a 'soft' deal with national resources to a foreign private company.

I thought the UK got their gas supply from Norway? Plus the UK has the money and power to bribe any country which has reserves which we don't currently have.

When you say 'other experts' are you including the UK & US in this?

Captain Con O'Sullivan
01-07-2011, 10:43 AM
The UK has very low gas and oil reserves which can lead to trouble within days- bit of overkeenness on the economic side of just-in-time delivery. I don't know what the breakdown is on supplies from Norway versus across the eastern European pipeline but there was something of a crisis in Britain when the Russians put their foot on the Georgian pipe when there was a snit there.

I believe COBRA (UK top level crisis response team and political muffin butterers) were convened and that doesn't happen often.

'Firstly, Britain imported more gas than it produced for the first time ever in November 2009, with imports increasingly set to dominate supply as our own output declines. Britain was a net exporter of gas until 2004, but a steady decline in output from the North Sea in recent years has made us more reliant on external suppliers for fuel to heat two thirds of British homes. Imports met 50.8% of total gas demand in Britain in the two months before Christmas 2009.' (Tony Lodge, Research Fellow at Centre for Policy Studies writing for Conservative Home http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/tony_lodge/)

and;

'The EU imports a quarter of its gas from Russia and 80% of supplies are
directed through Ukraine. Gas imports from Russia as a share of Europe’s
primary energy consumption make up 6.5%.
• Ten European member states depend on Russia for at least 60% of their gas
supplies. Six central and eastern European countries import 100% of their
gas supply from Russia.
• The EU accounts for 90% of Russia’s gas exports.
• Diversification of gas supplies to Europe has been on the increase, for example
imports of Liquid Natural Gas (LNG) from countries such as Nigeria, Egypt and
Qatar. 20% of European gas now comes in the form of LNG'

Here's a good short briefer paper from The All-Party Parliamentary Group On Transatlantic & International Security which gives a flavour of the strategic boo-boo in depending on gas from the east...http://www.henryjacksonsociety.org/cms/harriercollectionitems/APPG%20Briefing%20%20-%20Gas%20Security%20in%20the%20EU.pdf

The UK policy section pretty much backs up my reading of the situation I think ...

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 11:03 AM
The UK has very low gas and oil reserves which can lead to trouble within days- bit of overkeenness on the economic side of just-in-time delivery. I don't know what the breakdown is on supplies from Norway versus across the eastern European pipeline but there was something of a crisis in Britain when the Russians put their foot on the Georgian pipe when there was a snit there.

I believe COBRA (UK top level crisis response team and political muffin butterers) were convened and that doesn't happen often.

'Firstly, Britain imported more gas than it produced for the first time ever in November 2009, with imports increasingly set to dominate supply as our own output declines. Britain was a net exporter of gas until 2004, but a steady decline in output from the North Sea in recent years has made us more reliant on external suppliers for fuel to heat two thirds of British homes. Imports met 50.8% of total gas demand in Britain in the two months before Christmas 2009.' (Tony Lodge, Research Fellow at Centre for Policy Studies writing for Conservative Home http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/tony_lodge/)

and;

'The EU imports a quarter of its gas from Russia and 80% of supplies are
directed through Ukraine. Gas imports from Russia as a share of Europe’s
primary energy consumption make up 6.5%.
• Ten European member states depend on Russia for at least 60% of their gas
supplies. Six central and eastern European countries import 100% of their
gas supply from Russia.
• The EU accounts for 90% of Russia’s gas exports.
• Diversification of gas supplies to Europe has been on the increase, for example
imports of Liquid Natural Gas (LNG) from countries such as Nigeria, Egypt and
Qatar. 20% of European gas now comes in the form of LNG'

Here's a good short briefer paper from The All-Party Parliamentary Group On Transatlantic & International Security which gives a flavour of the strategic boo-boo in depending on gas from the east...http://www.henryjacksonsociety.org/cms/harriercollectionitems/APPG%20Briefing%20%20-%20Gas%20Security%20in%20the%20EU.pdf

The UK policy section pretty much backs up my reading of the situation I think ...

I think 'The UK has very low gas and oil reserves which can lead to trouble within days' is a very loose term. No one really knows its just guess work and hearsay.

They might be safe garding what reserves they have left? Which makes good sense.

Yes, I agree the UK may have a energy crisis in the future, but they have an enormous amount coal reserves and also have the ability to adapt when times are hard.

To be honest its an uncertain future for all of us in Europe.

Do you think it would be wise for Ireland to have its own nuclear facility some day?

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 11:22 AM
I have just had a thought. What would stop the UK from building nuclear energy plants in Northen Ireland?

It would reduce the risk of any possible leakage or meltdown affecting the British mainland.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
01-07-2011, 11:48 AM
I think 'The UK has very low gas and oil reserves which can lead to trouble within days' is a very loose term. No one really knows its just guess work and hearsay.

They might be safe garding what reserves they have left? Which makes good sense.

Yes, I agree the UK may have a energy crisis in the future, but they have an enormous amount coal reserves and also have the ability to adapt when times are hard.

To be honest its an uncertain future for all of us in Europe.

Do you think it would be wise for Ireland to have its own nuclear facility some day?

I know for a fact that the UKs strategic energy reserves are operating at a less than optimal level. I can also guarantee that the UK has no option but to build nuclear stations as they need something like 5 or possibly even 7 stations in order to stave off a strategic risk to the country's security alone.

Both the previous Labour government and the current coalition are hurrying along as quckly as they can with sites for stations. Fossil fuel stations are likely to be increasingly costly and hard to support never mind the cost of paying fines for carbon excess under international law- a situation which is rapidly taking shape.

On Ireland I think we are in trouble. We will be dependent on buying in more and more of our energy and therefore be dependent on neighbours and open to energy blackmail unless there is a crucial breakthrough in the cost-to-supply ratio of wind and water operated turbines.

Nuclear energy stations cost roughly 3.5billion at today's rates and we have thrown away the equivalent of Ireland's energy independence by propping up corrupt bank boardrooms.

That is just one of the reasons why they should be under arrest not only for fraud and misrepresentation on a gross scale but for treason.

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 12:42 PM
I know for a fact that the UKs strategic energy reserves are operating at a less than optimal level. I can also guarantee that the UK has no option but to build nuclear stations as they need something like 5 or possibly even 7 stations in order to stave off a strategic risk to the country's security alone.

Both the previous Labour government and the current coalition are hurrying along as quckly as they can with sites for stations. Fossil fuel stations are likely to be increasingly costly and hard to support never mind the cost of paying fines for carbon excess under international law- a situation which is rapidly taking shape.

On Ireland I think we are in trouble. We will be dependent on buying in more and more of our energy and therefore be dependent on neighbours and open to energy blackmail unless there is a crucial breakthrough in the cost-to-supply ratio of wind and water operated turbines.

Nuclear energy stations cost roughly 3.5billion at today's rates and we have thrown away the equivalent of Ireland's energy independence by propping up corrupt bank boardrooms.

That is just one of the reasons why they should be under arrest not only for fraud and misrepresentation on a gross scale but for treason.

Do you work in the industry? Then you don't know for a fact (again its just guess work and hearsay). There are other forms of energy out there.

5-7 is a bit of radical statement and I very much doubt the British public would go for it. Espically if you live in the proposed areas.

As you know living in the UK the British public are far more outspoken than we are and will withstand any plants being built.

Although I do agree that maybe one or two may be need.

Saying that building in NI is an option they could consider.

Holly
01-07-2011, 01:04 PM
....

Saying that building in NI is an option they could consider.

A western part of the Six Counties, such as Belleek, would probably sit well with people in England.

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/rogerduke1/Belleek.jpg

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 01:18 PM
A western part of the Six Counties, such as Belleek, would probably sit well with people in England.

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/rogerduke1/Belleek.jpg

I was thinking more like Culmore.

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 01:20 PM
I have just found this interesting article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/mar/01/national-grid-steve-holliday-energy-market

Please forgive me if you have already seen it.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
01-07-2011, 01:21 PM
Do you work in the industry? Then you don't know for a fact (again its just guess work and hearsay). There are other forms of energy out there.

5-7 is a bit of radical statement and I very much doubt the British public would go for it. Espically if you live in the proposed areas.

As you know living in the UK the British public are far more outspoken than we are and will withstand any plants being built.

Although I do agree that maybe one or two may be need.

Saying that building in NI is an option they could consider.

I had write a report less than two years ago for one of the top five universities in the UK on the subject of what was likely to be government policy on the renewal of nuclear power stations, who the main stakeholders were and a snapshot of current government policy. It hasn't changed in the last two years even with a change of government. The dynamics remain the same so the policy thrust is the same.


From 2006

'The go-ahead has been given for a new wave of UK nuclear power stations.
Industry secretary Alistair Darling told MPs nuclear power needed to be part of the mix of energy supply for the UK over the next 40 years.

The Conservatives say nuclear power should only be a "last resort". The Liberal Democrats accuse ministers of "surrendering" to the nuclear lobby.

Tony Blair says new nuclear power stations will reduce future reliance on imports and help tackle climate change.' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5166426.stm

From 2009;

'The government has approved 10 sites in England and Wales for new nuclear power stations, most of them in locations where there are already plants.

It has rejected only one proposed site - in Dungeness, Kent - as being unsuitable on environmental grounds.

A new planning commission will make decisions on the proposals "within a year" of receiving them, Energy Secretary Ed Miliband told MPs.

Nuclear was a "proven and reliable" energy source, he said.'http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8349715.stm

From 2010;

'Wylfa on Anglesey has been announced as one of the preferred locations for a new generation of nuclear power stations.

If given the go-ahead, a plant would be built nearby to replace the existing Wylfa station, due to be decommissioned in 2012.

UK Energy Secretary Chris Huhne announced eight UK locations as suitable for nuclear plants from 2025.

He said the UK urgently needed "new and diverse energy sources".http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11565973


From last week;

'The consortium behind plans for a new nuclear power station on Anglesey has welcomed a UK government decision to list the site as suitable for the next generation of plants. Wylfa was confirmed among eight sites around the UK, all adjacent to existing nuclear sites, deemed suitable for new power stations by 2025.' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13890460


You can't have clean energy from renewable sources to make up a 20% shortfall in UK energy supplies. The technology is not there yet and nuclear is the only solution on the table to square the circle.

Holly
01-07-2011, 01:24 PM
I was thinking more like Culmore.

Well, that's more easterly but it would fit the bill.

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 01:24 PM
Well, that's more easterly but it would fit the bill.

And right by the seaside :)

Captain Con O'Sullivan
01-07-2011, 01:26 PM
I have just found this interesting article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/mar/01/national-grid-steve-holliday-energy-market

Please forgive me if you have already seen it.

Ta MC, I wish it were possible to provide enough energy from windfarms and wavepower but even if it were possible to build in time the amount of energy one can get from large scale projects is still nowhere near enough.

Perhaps in a few years when all buildings can have solar cell bricks built into their walls and roofs then maybe along with improved technology in windfarm and wavepower the UK might get as much as 10% that way but the UK is running out of time.

If nuclear power stations don't start coming on line by 2017 then the UK faces a domestic energy crisis which means a foreign policy problem.

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 01:36 PM
I had write a report less than two years ago for one of the top five universities in the UK on the subject of what was likely to be government policy on the renewal of nuclear power stations, who the main stakeholders were and a snapshot of current government policy. It hasn't changed in the last two years even with a change of government. The dynamics remain the same so the policy thrust is the same.


From 2006

'The go-ahead has been given for a new wave of UK nuclear power stations.
Industry secretary Alistair Darling told MPs nuclear power needed to be part of the mix of energy supply for the UK over the next 40 years.

The Conservatives say nuclear power should only be a "last resort". The Liberal Democrats accuse ministers of "surrendering" to the nuclear lobby.

Tony Blair says new nuclear power stations will reduce future reliance on imports and help tackle climate change.' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5166426.stm

From 2009;

'The government has approved 10 sites in England and Wales for new nuclear power stations, most of them in locations where there are already plants.

It has rejected only one proposed site - in Dungeness, Kent - as being unsuitable on environmental grounds.

A new planning commission will make decisions on the proposals "within a year" of receiving them, Energy Secretary Ed Miliband told MPs.

Nuclear was a "proven and reliable" energy source, he said.'http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8349715.stm

From 2010;

'Wylfa on Anglesey has been announced as one of the preferred locations for a new generation of nuclear power stations.

If given the go-ahead, a plant would be built nearby to replace the existing Wylfa station, due to be decommissioned in 2012.

UK Energy Secretary Chris Huhne announced eight UK locations as suitable for nuclear plants from 2025.

He said the UK urgently needed "new and diverse energy sources".http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11565973


From last week;

'The consortium behind plans for a new nuclear power station on Anglesey has welcomed a UK government decision to list the site as suitable for the next generation of plants. Wylfa was confirmed among eight sites around the UK, all adjacent to existing nuclear sites, deemed suitable for new power stations by 2025.' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13890460


You can't have clean energy from renewable sources to make up a 20% shortfall in UK energy supplies. The technology is not there yet and nuclear is the only solution on the table to square the circle.

Well if people like ourselves didn't spend so much time on the computer and watching boring TV programmes. Maybe there would not be a need for all these new sites (modern technology has a lot to answer for). :)

Roll on a future terror attaks in the UK mainland!! I hope you do not live near any of the proposed sites?

Captain Con O'Sullivan
01-07-2011, 01:42 PM
There's plenty of security around the nuclear sites. I'd be more worried about moneysaving 'it'll be alright don't bother with the bimonthly inspection' stuff but I'd say Fukushima has been a bit of a wakeup call on that front.

I doubt there's a nuclear power station anywhere in the west where the safety procedures haven't been dusted down and inspections tightened up after that.

I'm not a fan of nuclear power- first time I ever went on a protest/demo was against the Carnsore Point nuclear project which was won. But there's no way I could justify protesting against it now.

There were options back in the mid to late seventies. There are no viable choices now- either become energy independent whether it be mixed renewables with a nuclear base or prepare to become a trapped customer importing a large proportion of energy needs at a price you can't negotiate.

Thats what the UK is frantically trying to sort out.

Dr. FIVE
01-07-2011, 01:45 PM
Not to mention the nuclear subs they have a habit of crashing around the coast.

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 01:47 PM
CS,

Interestingly enough I have just noticed that most of the proposed sites are on the west cost of the UK, so I guess Ireland will be the fist to cop it if anything goes wrong.

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 01:52 PM
There's plenty of security around the nuclear sites. I'd be more worried about moneysaving 'it'll be alright don't bother with the bimonthly inspection' stuff but I'd say Fukushima has been a bit of a wakeup call on that front.

I doubt there's a nuclear power station anywhere in the west where the safety procedures haven't been dusted down and inspections tightened up after that.

I'm not a fan of nuclear power- first time I ever went on a protest/demo was against the Carnsore Point nuclear project which was won. But there's no way I could justify protesting against it now.

There were options back in the mid to late seventies. There are no viable choices now- either become energy independent whether it be mixed renewables with a nuclear base or prepare to become a trapped customer importing a large proportion of energy needs at a price you can't negotiate.

Thats what the UK is frantically trying to sort out.

'There are no viable choices' Oh but there are. Limit our amount of usage. How many of us leave our computers on all day and night? Or don't switch off non essential appliances?

Every little bit helps!!

Captain Con O'Sullivan
01-07-2011, 01:55 PM
Oh yes. I wasn't going to say but potentially I'm safer than anyone in Ireland if something goes wrong. I was aware of the Windscale Sellefield wastewater escaping ino the Irish sea when I came to London and one of the first things I noticed on the ads on TV here was the renamed Sellafield advertising to parents to bring the kids to the station- its a great day out.

Norway and Ireland I think took the UK to court over that- but I've got the Pennines and the Chilterns between me and west coast nuclear stations whereas the east coast of Ireland has maybe 30/40 miles of flat sea between it and those stations.

Irish safety plan? Eamon O'Cuiv, Bean Ui 'Bing Bong' Chribin and Sean Brady to hit the decks with their knees and pray for westerly winds instead of easterlies. There's no point in Ireland banning nuclear power in the Republic. Radiation doesn't recognise borders.

Holly
01-07-2011, 01:57 PM
'There are no viable choices' Oh but there are. Limit our amount of usage. How many of us leave our computers on all day and night? Or don't switch off non essential appliances?

Every little bit helps!!

I switch-on my immersion only when I want a bath and I make sure to switch it off once the water is heated.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
01-07-2011, 01:58 PM
'There are no viable choices' Oh but there are. Limit our amount of usage. How many of us leave our computers on all day and night? Or don't switch off non essential appliances?

Every little bit helps!!

I agree. But I have one of the smallest energy profiles of anyone I know and would be due a credit to be honest.

In terms of energy use I don't drive a car or own one, I share a flat, don't have kids so my energy profile is very low compared to the national average.

But when was the last time you heard of a profitable company being closed for consuming too much energy or being an overpolluter?

Part of the distraction plan is to teach kids to turn light bulbs off while up the road there are carparks with basically floodlights beaming all night.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
01-07-2011, 02:03 PM
A lady I work with is fanatical about printers and lightbulbs and is forever annoying her colleagues by flipping light switches off and plastering the office with 'Don't you know there is any energy war on?'

One of life's natural Air Raid Wardens. She recently bought a house in which she lives alone (unsurprisingly) and drives every day to and from work presumably chanting the energy song.

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 02:04 PM
I switch-on my immersion only when I want a bath and I make sure to switch it off once the water is heated.

Ah, so once a week. That's good.

I guess you use generators where you live? :)

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 02:11 PM
I agree. But I have one of the smallest energy profiles of anyone I know and would be due a credit to be honest.

In terms of energy use I don't drive a car or own one, I share a flat, don't have kids so my energy profile is very low compared to the national average.

But when was the last time you heard of a profitable company being closed for consuming too much energy or being an overpolluter?

Part of the distraction plan is to teach kids to turn light bulbs off while up the road there are carparks with basically floodlights beaming all night.

Agreed, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
01-07-2011, 02:32 PM
They do when industry is allowed to pollute away under the guise of carbon credits and when millions of car journeys using fossil fuels occur every day. An unknown quantity because people are driving to their local shop.

Utterly pointless policing your lightbulb.

I sometimes get people who get snotty about the atmospere when I smoke. They hate it when I point out that they drive a car and don't need it pouring out more pollution in a week than I can emit in a lifetime.

Really pisses them off for some reason.

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 02:44 PM
They do when industry is allowed to pollute away under the guise of carbon credits and when millions of car journeys using fossil fuels occur every day. An unknown quantity because people are driving to their local shop.

Utterly pointless policing your lightbulb.

I sometimes get people who get snotty about the atmospere when I smoke. They hate it when I point out that they drive a car and don't need it pouring out more pollution in a week than I can emit in a lifetime.

Really pisses them off for some reason.

So you've never driven a car in your life? I presume you walk everywhere you go and have never been on a aeroplane? Are you not using your works (industry) energy as we speak? In fact should you not be working insted of spending time on here?

Smoking is a filthy habit and I would not tolerate it around me nor in my home.

Holly
01-07-2011, 04:04 PM
.... In fact should you not be working insted of spending time on here?
....

Let's not be so condescending, Michael.
Besides, the teachers are on holidays now and will not need to report to work again until September. There is more to life than working all the time as educators know well.

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 04:15 PM
Let's not be so condescending, Michael.
Besides, the teachers are on holidays now and will not need to report to work again until September. There is more to life than working all the time as educators know well.

People in glass houses should not throw stones. Can I suggest you look back at some of your comments.

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 04:22 PM
Let's not be so condescending, Michael.
Besides, the teachers are on holidays now and will not need to report to work again until September. There is more to life than working all the time as educators know well.

Would you care to translate that into engligh for me please?

Captain Con O'Sullivan
01-07-2011, 04:45 PM
So you've never driven a car in your life? I presume you walk everywhere you go and have never been on a aeroplane? Are you not using your works (industry) energy as we speak? In fact should you not be working insted of spending time on here?

Smoking is a filthy habit and I would not tolerate it around me nor in my home.

Course I have driven a car and I have a full clean driving license. But I don't need one as I live in the centre of town. I've owned a few cars but nothing in the last ten years.

As for the smoking in your home I've no intention of it. Unless you live way out in the country you are breathing polluted air with every breath you take. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

I don't take lectures from cardrivers on polluted air. I'd put out less carcinogenic toxins in a year than the average car driver does in a week and there's millions of them.

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 04:55 PM
Course I have driven a car and I have a full clean driving license. But I don't need one as I live in the centre of town. I've owned a few cars but nothing in the last ten years.

As for the smoking in your home I've no intention of it. Unless you live way out in the country you are breathing polluted air with every breath you take. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

I don't take lectures from cardrivers on polluted air. I'd put out less carcinogenic toxins in a year than the average car driver does in a week and there's millions of them.

Ha ha!! You know exactly what I was referring to. Maybe you should pass on some of your witt to Holly :)

Seán Ryan
01-07-2011, 04:58 PM
20 something years ago when I was a fresh-faced innocent, serving my time, with the ESB, we were probably one of the most advanced countries on the planet, in as far as research was concerned. Wave power and things like that.

Alternative energy sources are a lovely idea. But with today's technology they're not feasible. As Con says, radiation doesn't recognise borders. Thus any declaration by the Irish authorities, calling for or merely calling Ireland a nuclear free zone are delusional and reminiscent of King Canute.

Education and research are the way forward. The penning of legislation at this stage in the game is not to recognise that the game's long since finished and reality has sunk in.

Personally, I'd go for nuclear energy if I didn't realise who the gobsh1tes were who'd be in charge of facilitating the safety aspects concerned with such an endeavour. Because of this I see no alternatives, other than investing in research and scaling down massively on industrial and commercial usage of power and pollution. After all, we allegedly adhere to the principle "polluter pays." Indeed we're legally bound to the concept. Nonetheless we still see individuals having to buy bottled water where industry has poisoned the supply. If legislators want to do some good - see that current legislation is adhered to!

Captain Con O'Sullivan
01-07-2011, 05:01 PM
Do you spray cleaning agents around your home? Use bleach based products in your kitchen or bathroom? Take a look at the list of chemicals in them.

We live our lives surrounded by powered gadgets, artificial light, computers, televisions and have houses built in areas where there are high emissions of radon.

If you think for one moment that you are extending your life span by studiously avoiding smokers then I think you are not assessing all the risks around you.

There was a lovely letter to the Times a few years back where a lady wrote in to say she was a smoker and allowed her guests to smoke. After dinner she would simply say 'those who do not smoke and object to smoking are welcome to stand outside in the garden'.

Said she never had one non-smoker who did so.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
01-07-2011, 05:03 PM
20 something years ago when I was a fresh-faced innocent, serving my time, with the ESB, we were probably one of the most advanced countries on the planet, in as far as research was concerned. Wave power and things like that.

Alternative energy sources are a lovely idea. But with today's technology they're not feasible. As Con says, radiation doesn't recognise borders. Thus any declaration by the Irish authorities, calling for or merely calling Ireland a nuclear free zone are delusional and reminiscent of King Canute.

Education and research are the way forward. The penning of legislation at this stage in the game is not to recognise that the game's long since finished and reality has sunk in.

Personally, I'd go for nuclear energy if I didn't realise who the gobsh1tes were who'd be in charge of facilitating the safety aspects concerned with such an endeavour. Because of this I see no alternatives, other than investing in research and scaling down massively on industrial and commercial usage of power and pollution. After all, we allegedly adhere to the principle "polluter pays." Indeed we're legally bound to the concept. Nonetheless we still see individuals having to buy bottled water where industry has poisoned the supply. If legislators want to do some good - see that current legislation is adhered to!

Thats the bit that worries me. Imagine some TD with a shareholding in an inspection company after a privatisation for example of an Irish power station.

How long would it take before 'yerra, tick the box' would take over instead of proper inspections?

Seán Ryan
01-07-2011, 05:10 PM
Thats the bit that worries me. Imagine some TD with a shareholding in an inspection company after a privatisation for example of an Irish power station.

How long would it take before 'yerra, tick the box' would take over instead of proper inspections?

They'd even balls up the paperwork I reckon. And then after the meltdown or what have you, we'd spend 20 years and billions on figuring out why the paperwork went wrong!

It's hard not to feel a sense of desperation at times, seeing what the possibilities are and the potential being stripped from kids as soon as they enter the system...

disability student
01-07-2011, 05:11 PM
Thats the bit that worries me. Imagine some TD with a shareholding in an inspection company after a privatisation for example of an Irish power station.

How long would it take before 'yerra, tick the box' would take over instead of proper inspections?

Same can be said for Nursing homes with some TD's owner/s. :cool:

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 05:18 PM
Do you spray cleaning agents around your home? Use bleach based products in your kitchen or bathroom? Take a look at the list of chemicals in them.

We live our lives surrounded by powered gadgets, artificial light, computers, televisions and have houses built in areas where there are high emissions of radon.

If you think for one moment that you are extending your life span by studiously avoiding smokers then I think you are not assessing all the risks around you.

There was a lovely letter to the Times a few years back where a lady wrote in to say she was a smoker and allowed her guests to smoke. After dinner she would simply say 'those who do not smoke and object to smoking are welcome to stand outside in the garden'.

Said she never had one non-smoker who did so.

Na, the wife does all that but I get your point. Somking is a known killer which I can see and do something about.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
01-07-2011, 05:29 PM
Sure. Its like anything. Abortion, divorce, naked skydiving, smoking, if you object to it don't do it.

MichaelCollins
01-07-2011, 05:53 PM
Sure. Its like anything. Abortion, divorce, naked skydiving, smoking, if you object to it don't do it.

I still get a kick out of naked skydiving and the wife can't get enough of it.. :)

C. Flower
21-11-2011, 05:18 PM
I saw reports last week of elevated levels of radiation in Eastern Europe last week - now California is getting 300% higher than normal readings.

http://theintelhub.com/2011/11/21/alert-over-300-higher-than-normal-radiation-levels-recorded-in-california/