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View Full Version : EX CIA Boss Accidentally Imbibes Truth Serum and Tells All - "US Presidents Have Lied for 30 Years"



C. Flower
31-05-2011, 11:38 AM
http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/west-clueless-about-war-on-terror-ex-cia-boss-506885.html

US support for Israel is a disaster and US foreign policy, not "terror" has caused the middle east wars.


David Cameron and Barack Obama “don’t have a clue” about dealing with the war on terror, a former senior member of the CIA said today.

Michael Scheuer, the former head of the CIA’s bin Laden unit, said western politicians had to accept that the conflict in the Middle East was caused by US foreign policy.

Mr Scheuer said that Osama bin Laden and organisations like al-Qaida were fighting a war against US imperialism rather than a war on western culture.

“American politicians, and I’m afraid listening to Mr Cameron this week, there’s not a clue about what’s going down in the western world,” he said.

“They can’t cope with the fact that it’s nothing to do with the way we live. It doesn’t have anything to do with elections or democracy or liberty.

“We are being attacked in the west and we will continue to be attacked in the west as long as we are in Afghanistan, as long as we support the Israelis, as long as we protect the Saudi police state.

“Yet we hear the President, we hear your Prime Minister, talking about thugs and gangsters. We are still in the starting blocks in this war.

“The main recruitment sergeant for al-Qaida is Barack Obama because his speech on the May 19 was a declaration of cultural war on Islam.”

Mr Scheuer, who was speaking at an event in Wales, is a controversial figure in intelligence and political circles.

He left the bin Laden unit two years before September 11 but was called back as an adviser in the wake of the terrorist attack.

Mr Scheuer described his experiences in his book 'Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terrorism'. It was published anonymously in 2004, but Mr Scheuer was soon outed as the author.

His book drew criticism in the US, but was praised for its insight in a speech by bin Laden himself.

In a round of questions, a member of the audience asked Mr Scheuer what advice he would give Mr Obama.

“I would ask him to tell the truth,” he replied. “He, the first Mr Bush, then Mr Clinton and the second Mr Bush have assiduously lied to the American people for 20 years and as a result have made the relations in the United States between Muslims and other people much more difficult.

“They have identified the motivation of our enemy as a war against liberty, as a war against gender equality.

“There is almost no Muslim out there who is an insane character who is going to blow himself up because my daughters go to university.

“What I try and show in my book is that there is no discussion by bin Laden of this cultural war that is supposed to be waged against us.

“A president who was a statesman and a politician might say something like ’I’m sorry we’ve been kinda lying to you for 30 years and why we are being attacked is until recently we were supporting fascism across the Middle East’.

“In the rhetoric of our enemies there is very little, if anything, about attacking us for how we live or how we think or how we act in our own country.

“It is about intervention, it is about being in the Arab Peninsula and it has nothing to do with these cultural things.

“We are the ones that are arranging the cultural war against them. What we will see as al-Qaida evolves is that the next generation is better educated, combat experienced and probably much crueller.”

Mr Scheuer said the only way to end the war on terror was to withdraw from the Middle East to an extent that is “consistent with our interests”.

He added: “The American relationship with Israel, in my mind, is a useless and unnecessary relationship.

“As long as we are playing a role we are the recruiting sergeant for the people that are going to kill us.”


Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/west-clueless-about-war-on-terror-ex-cia-boss-506885.html#ixzz1Nvf5wRLm

Captain Con O'Sullivan
31-05-2011, 11:59 AM
I hope he has security around him because Mossad will be crayoning in some blank Irish passports as we speak.

Griska
31-05-2011, 12:49 PM
Well said, Mr. Scheuer.
I wonder how many column inches this will get accross the pond.

It's a case of stating the bleedin' obvious, in fairness, but it's still good to hear an ex-spook tell it like it is.

Griska
31-05-2011, 12:58 PM
Mr. Scheuer, though, is one odious bastard.
Upon further reading, he seems to believe that the U.S. hasn't gone far enough, nor killed enough people in Afghanistan.

This is from a recent interview:


Then what's the right way to go about it?
The next time we need to deploy an army to defend ourselves, we need to annihilate the enemy. All the talk about "the military option has been tried" is really nonsense. If this is all the power that the American people have paid for over the past 30 years, since the end of the cold war, and this is the best we can do, it really is a shame. Any war can be won if you kill enough of the enemy and their supporters.

Do we have to be willing to kill a lot of civilians?
Absolutely. Either you go to war to win in an insurgency, or you don't go at all. If you go to war to win, an enemy that doesn't wear a uniform and is supported by the local population is going to take a lot of killing. You're making the decision about whether America is worth defending.

http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/05/point-person-mi.html

Captain Con O'Sullivan
31-05-2011, 01:06 PM
I don't like what he is saying but I understand he is saying fighting a half-war is worse than fighting a fullscale war.

I don't condone the US's gunboat foreign policy by the way but on a theoretical level it would have been better to issue a 7 day warning to clear Mecca or Medina and then erasing it from the face of the earth as a warning rather than disguise a resource steal as a cultural clash.

Half-executed wars are worse than fully executed wars. Peace and negotiation is better but the American attempt to characterise their war in the middle east as a just enterprise has been an expensive failure same as Vietnam.

I don't think wars should be gone into lightly or for flimsy pretexts or with one eye on PR. If it does happen it should be forced upon you and then executed with all power or none.

Probably won't be popular but it is a theoretical point.

C. Flower
31-05-2011, 01:14 PM
Mr. Scheuer, though, is one odious bastard.
Upon further reading, he seems to believe that the U.S. hasn't gone far enough, nor killed enough people in Afghanistan.

This is from a recent interview:
http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/05/point-person-mi.html

That article is a good find Griska. My "truth serum" theory seems to be holding up as he just shoots his mouth off and says it exactly as it is.


A lot of people would argue that by killing civilians, you create yet another tool for recruitment.

Sir, I was trained as a historian, and that is the most insane argument I think that I've ever heard in the sense that, do people think that we were popular for killing German civilians? Do we not think that the Wehrmacht fought harder after we bombed Dresden? It's the price of war. You have to defend someone. It's a very ahistorical argument. I used to have a priest who said, if you're going to say something that can't be held up logically, say it fast and maybe no one will pay attention. That's just an argument that's just a non-started.

But lots of jihadist groups post videos using the killing of civilians to prove what a monster the U.S. is.

Of course they do. I'm not saying that it's not important. But what's your object? Isn't the object to win? We probably could have defeated Nazi Germany or imperial Japan if we took another 10 or 15 years by not destroyed their cities and their factories and the civilians that worked in each one of them. I assume that the propaganda of those powers also featured dead Japanese and German civilians to inspire their fighters. It's just the nature of war.

This is capitalist warfare, as it was fought throughout the 20th century.

Under Obama, there is a whole grey area of endless occupations with no perspective of winning or losing, just keeping a presence and preventing anyone from making the territory function like a normal part of the planet.

As he was the man in charge of renditions, perhaps we should ask Scheuer who was rendered via Shannon and did the Irish government know about it....

Griska
31-05-2011, 01:34 PM
As he was the man in charge of renditions, perhaps we should ask Scheuer who was rendered via Shannon and did the Irish government know about it....

We should indeed ask him, since I still haven't received a response to my query to Minister Gilmore on the issue.

Apjp
31-05-2011, 01:35 PM
That article is a good find Griska. My "truth serum" theory seems to be holding up as he just shoots his mouth off and says it exactly as it is.



This is capitalist warfare, as it was fought throughout the 20th century.

Under Obama, there is a whole grey area of endless occupations with no perspective of winning or losing, just keeping a presence and preventing anyone from making the territory function like a normal part of the planet.

As he was the man in charge of renditions, perhaps we should ask Scheuer who was rendered via Shannon and did the Irish government know about it....

Its 1984 stuff. Obama is the big brother of america and the war economy is perpetual. Evil bastards killed 2 afghani women and 12 children "mistakenly" last weekend. What irish paper reported that?

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antiestablishmentarian
31-05-2011, 01:40 PM
Its 1984 stuff. Obama is the big brother of america and the war economy is perpetual. Evil bastards killed 2 afghani women and 12 children "mistakenly" last weekend. What irish paper reported that?

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Uh...the 6.01 news ran that story Ap.

Cactus, capitalist warfare has been like that since at least the 19th century, the Belgians armed different tribes and Arab slave drivers and played them off against one another to prevent them threatening their interests in the Congo.

C. Flower
31-05-2011, 01:56 PM
Uh...the 6.01 news ran that story Ap.

Cactus, capitalist warfare has been like that since at least the 19th century, the Belgians armed different tribes and Arab slave drivers and played them off against one another to prevent them threatening their interests in the Congo.

Yes, that's true. What I was talking about, although not clearly enough, was that full scale capitalist warfare involves wiping out human populations and factories - destroying productive forces - the underlying reason being the imperative to reduce overproduction and to drive the rate of profit up.

A war that didn't do that would not have been considered a successful war in the 20th century.

Apjp
31-05-2011, 02:20 PM
Uh...the 6.01 news ran that story Ap.

Cactus, capitalist warfare has been like that since at least the 19th century, the Belgians armed different tribes and Arab slave drivers and played them off against one another to prevent them threatening their interests in the Congo.

Ok. Was actually asking as I ignore all irishmedia save vb noe

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Trow
31-05-2011, 05:30 PM
I hope he has security around him because Mossad will be crayoning in some blank Irish passports as we speak.

Yeah indeed, or the guy will be exposed in some sort of sex scandal which seems to have become the norm for payback these days.