"We The Citizens" - Classic US-Backed Astroturf ?

[C. Flower]

I went to the launch of "We the Citizens" this morning in the shiny surroundings of the RHA.

"We the Citizens" on the occasion of its launch already has in place a full time staff of three, a Board, an "International Scientific Advisory Board" and an "Academic Team".

It has funding of more than €600,000, from Atlantic Philanthropies, a US charity which purports to be in the main a one man fund established by Chuck Feeney, who has himself relinquished any personal wealth and lives modestly.

"We the Citizens" presents itself as a "bottom up" movement of citizens who will come together to brainstorm ideas for governmental reform. There will be a number of regional workshops, an opinion poll and then a "citizens assembly" of 150 people.

I don't doubt for one moment the good will of people like Elaine Byrne and Jane Suiter, who have given their time to the project and who have fine track records in writing on and debating the economic crisis.

But I find it hard to see the validity of this essentially top heavy and top down exercise. We have just had a General Election and the incoming Government has commitments to Governmental reform that went before the people in election manifestos.

As the WtC process does not have Government backing, it essentially proposes a series of discussions amongst self selected individuals who will "Speak up for a New Ireland". There is no mechanism for continuing action and no way the people taking part can become part of the "We the People" organisation. It is hard to see why it needs the elaborate structures of academics that oversee a very straightforward consultation workshop exercise.

Rather than strengthening democracy, I think that this type of astroturf exercise, which sets itself up as an alternative to electoral democracy, in fact dilutes it.

I can think of a lot of better ways of spending 600,000 euro.

The website, which didn't come cheap, was also launched today.

Imo, an open letter from a group of academics would have served the same purpose and would have had more credibility, and a much lower budget.

http://www.wethecitizens.ie/index.php

[PaddyJoe]

There's some very smart and high powered people involved but it still sounds like a glorified focus group to me. I can see them churning out lots of worthy policy documents which wlll be analysed to death in the Irish Times and end up sitting on a dusty shelf in the Oireachtas broom cupboard.

[unspecific]

There's some very smart and high powered people involved but it still sounds like a glorified focus group to me. I can see them churning out lots of worthy policy documents which wlll be analysed to death in the Irish Times and end up sitting on a dusty shelf in the Oireachtas broom cupboard.

+1

[Dr. FIVE]

We will see how it unfolds.
Interesting it coincides with the recent Phoenix articles relating to reformcard and the IIEA.



Anything trying to paint itself as ordinary Joe from the off would make me wary for a start.

[disability student]

It would need to start from bottom up as these high powered people don't have the connections to the grass roots or 'the people'. They are usually more distant hence no connection. It's a kind of them and us. It won't work at all.

It's a total waste of money indeed. It reminded me of recent group who had made the news headlines in the media few weeks ago re Rehab and the Rich (non tax payers) their submission paper to the FG govt (non resident millionaires such as desmond et al).

[disability student]

Also we didn't elect them to the board of directors as it was they who set themselves up. No democracy indeed as i rather see people as common member to vote for whom they wish to vote for or what issues that they want to discuss such as ' burning of the bondhonders'.

There is no decision making on behalf of the Irish citizens as they as a board member (Director/s) of that organisation decides what decision/s would they arrive at. Secondly it's a company set up by the themselves as they didn't ask us for advice or planned a tour/meetings around Ireland like the ULA did before to make an informed decision.

It appears to me that there is some vested interest behind that group and why? It certainly costs a lot of money to set up a glamarous website and professionally done.

[C. Flower]

We will see how it unfolds.
Interesting it coincides with the recent Phoenix articles relating to reformcard and the IIEA.



Anything trying to paint itself as ordinary Joe from the off would make me wary for a start.

This project wants it both ways as it wants to present itself as highly expert and qualified but only proposes to use basic workshop techniques to gather opinions and suggestions from the public.

What did the Phoenix say?
"

[coolvr]

I see Sylda Langford of Common Purpose and a board member of the HSE is on the board of this group, no doubt Captain Con will be taking an interest in them.

Did read the book on Chuck Feeney by Conor O'Clery a few years back, interesting read and seems to be someone who has a genuine desire to use his personal wealth to do some good.

[C. Flower]

I see Sylda Langford of Common Purpose and a board member of the HSE is on the board of this group, no doubt Captain Con will be taking an interest in them.

Did read the book on Chuck Feeney by Conor O'Clery a few years back, interesting read and seems to be someone who has a genuine desire to use his personal wealth to do some good.

Wealth originally generated, so I've read, through trading alcohol through Italian ports in the immediate post war months and years?

A Declanganleyish kind of a history, I thought.

What is "Common Purpose" ? Also funded by Atlantic Philanthropies ?

[C. Flower]

Professor David Farrell is talking about this on Drivetime now.

"About a year ago we made an approach to Atlantic Philanthropies" for a citizens' assembly.

The group who started it is Elaine Bur Jane Suiter Eoin O'Mahony and David Farrell

May 10th Kilkenny - Langtons - first meeting

Professional moderators will make sure that this is not just a whinge fest - how would we like our moderators to look - moderators will try to steer the discussions."

While the seven events goes on the Academic Team will survey participants about

The Programme for Government talks about setting up a Constitutional Assembly

"We see our role to try and demonstrate how a citizens assembly might unfold" - "We have informed all the parties and will be

"Do you select, elect or choose the 150 people to sit on the assembly"

A Polling firm will do a national opinion poll of 1,000 persons, asking about political reform. They will ask these thousand people and will find 150 people to come to Dublin for the weekend, expenses but no fee and will "receive objective information providing both sides of the argument and can grill witnesses".

When they go back home they will be surveyed again.

This is a process which is very odd as it involves shaping views as well as surveying them. I've not come across anything quite like it before.

A document will be produced and given to Government.

Conor O'Clery - "How Chuck Feeney secretly made and gave away a fortune"

"This is a bit of a change of tack from Atlantic Philanthropies as up until recently they did not accept approaches by Feeney went out and identified "causes" himself.

"You won't find a University Professor who hasn't benefited from Feeney's largesse"

O'Clery spent a year or so travelling around with him. He also gives money in Australia and Vietnam.

Liquor, radios and cigarette sales (duty free) sold to the US fleet were the basis of his fortune.

[Count Bobulescu]

CF, clearly, I don’t know the specifics of the Org, and you’re right to be wary of talking shops, but I suspect you are being overly critical, at least with respect to Chuck Feeney.

Here’s his wiki bio.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Feeney

He wasn’t born in Ireland, had no “moral duty” to Ireland, but apparently has donated about 1$ Billion to third level education in Ireland, mostly in Limerick. In that context, the 600k is peanuts. As an alternative, he could have put that $1B on the gambling tables, and Ireland would be the worse for it. Have any of the native “Irish Billionaires” O’Brien, Desmond, Quinn etc. donated a $Billion? The fortune was made by selling duty free booze to travelers. Would you refuse the donation on that basis?

[C. Flower]

CF, clearly, I don’t know the specifics of the Org, and you’re right to be wary of talking shops, but I suspect you are being overly critical, at least with respect to Chuck Feeney.

Here’s his wiki bio.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Feeney

He wasn’t born in Ireland, had no “moral duty” to Ireland, but apparently has donated about 1$ Billion to third level education in Ireland, mostly in Limerick. In that context, the 600k is peanuts. As an alternative, he could have put that $1B on the gambling tables, and Ireland would be the worse for it. Have any of the native “Irish Billionaires” O’Brien, Desmond, Quinn etc. donated a $Billion? The fortune was made by selling duty free booze to travelers. Would you refuse the donation on that basis?

No, but I would look warily at any social intervention paid for by wealthy outsiders. I would also find a personality who made his fortune in the rough world of post WW2 port trade in Italy and who lived like a saint giving all his money away - not even his children get any - a little curious and unprecedented. The development of Limerick University and US FDI are closely linked and mutually beneficial.

We are also told that this organisation requested funding from AP, which is also unprecedented as they don't normally accept applications.

Sam Lord posted a list of similar organisations backed I think by USAID of the "democracy promoting" colour revolution variety.

Many people may think that the colour revolutions were a thoroughly good thing and the US model of democratic privatising liberalisation the best option for the world. I just think that we should know what we are getting ourselves into down this road - Georgia, tbh, does not appeal.

[Count Bobulescu]

For reasons unkown, the multi-quote button doesn’t work for me. I use Mozilla Firefox. Probably best, otherwise, I would start to look like BvB. That said,

1: Seems you saying that “social intervention” whatever that means, by wealthy outsiders is suspect, but by poor ones maybe not so?

2: This is a public policy discussion. Your introduction of Chuck Feeney’s private family arraignments with respect to his children is completely irrelevant to an issue of public policy. None of your business, or mine. He is free to do as he chooses, just as you and I are. He is free to give a $B and free not to give a $B. I wish I were.

3: I don’t understand several your references, so you’ll have to explain.

A: The development of Limerick University and US FDI are closely linked and mutually beneficial????????

B: We are also told that this organisation requested funding from AP, which is also unprecedented as they don't normally accept applications????

C: Sam Lord posted a list of similar organisations backed I think by USAID of the "democracy promoting" colour revolution variety????

I haven’t the faintest idea of what an “organization of the democracy promoting colour revolution variety is?” What language are you speaking?????? Please explain.

[coolvr]

This wouldn't be the first time that Chuck Feeney and Atlantic Philanthropies have received criticism for funding organisations in Ireland, north and south, and it probably won't be the last...

By the way he started off selling Christmas cards door to door and shoveling snow off driveways to make money so perhaps that had as much to do with him making his fortune as selling alcohol and cars to US soldiers in Italy and other Mediterranean countries...And from memory he made sure that his children were adequately provided for, so his children did get some just not as much as they might have expected :p

As to the connections between Limerick University and US FDI, well substitute Limerick University with Ireland and you can make the same argument...Maybe I'm wrong but surely the governments refusal to raise the corporate tax is down to a fear that the US FDI will dry up if we do...Personally I'd rather have one Irish/American billionaire with good intentions calling the shots than companies like Google, Intel and Microsoft...But I admit I'm woefully naive and look for the good in people.

I agree that given our history and current position we should examine any outside interests in our democracy or political reform to see what the agenda might be...But we should also balance that by looking at the organisations and projects that Mr. Feeney and AP have supported throughout the world before making judgement.

In Ireland alone they have supported organisations like the ISPCC, Foroige, GLEN, Irish Refugee Council, Older and Bolder, LINC and the Alzheimers Society...Not sure if there's any hidden agenda there.

[C. Flower]

For reasons unkown, the multi-quote button doesn’t work for me. I use Mozilla Firefox. Probably best, otherwise, I would start to look like BvB. That said,

1: Seems you saying that “social intervention” whatever that means, by wealthy outsiders is suspect, but by poor ones maybe not so?

Poor outsiders are hardly in the position to make major interventions anywhere, beyond their own personal actions and voices.


2: This is a public policy discussion. Your introduction of Chuck Feeney’s private family arraignments with respect to his children is completely irrelevant to an issue of public policy. None of your business, or mine. He is free to do as he chooses, just as you and I are. He is free to give a $B and free not to give a $B. I wish I were.
It's Chuck Feeney's actions in choosing to dispose of all his wealth outside the family that was discussed, not the actions of his children. And there is in any event no barrier against discussing anything which is already in the public domain. It is unusual, comment worthy, and Feeney has been open about it himself.


3: I don’t understand several your references, so you’ll have to explain.

[quote] A: The development of Limerick University and US FDI are closely linked and mutually beneficial????????

Limerick University was developed on a business-oriented model of education, with a business park attached. The rationale for the University was that it would be a magnet for such industry.


B: We are also told that this organisation requested funding from AP, which is also unprecedented as they don't normally accept applications????

A P does not normally accept applications for funding. It is said that Feeney himself identified most of the projects to be funded. It did in this case accept an approach from the project's initiators.


C: Sam Lord posted a list of similar organisations backed I think by USAID of the "democracy promoting" colour revolution variety????

I haven’t the faintest idea of what an “organization of the democracy promoting colour revolution variety is?” What language are you speaking?????? Please explain.

Apologies. The Colour Revolution is a term attached to the "movements for democracy" which swept various US backed neo liberal governments to power, mainly in the post USSR countries. Georgia is one such state.

Whilst in theory pro electoral democracy, these movements used mass action in the form of mass demonstrations and occupations of key public spaces to pressurise early elections or regime change.

The US in fact funded the April 6th Movement in Egypt, for example. This group was one of the organisers of the January 25th Tahrir protest, which took legs. The involvement in Egypt of a militant working class and youth has pushed what is happening there beyond the comfort zone of the US.

"We the Citizens" says that it wants to promote greater participation in democracy by the Irish population, but has chosen to do so in a form that involves a very small number of people, with no certainty that the final report will have any impact. It will however give some credibility and public profile to the organisation itself. This organisation is entirely top down in character.

[boozwatch]

I see Sylda Langford of Common Purpose is involved.

Cactus asked about Common Purpose. I took part in CP in the UK, and had the same thoughts as Brian Gerrish who is a naval officer who took part in the UK CP and has written and spoken a lot since - see youtube and google. CP would have you believe Gerrish is a conspiracy theorist etc, and had his site closed, but he speaks credibly and makes the point that CP is very secretive and elitist, and is building a network of connected insiders which is essentially antidemocratic. It trains key people in the private and public sector in 'leadership' but also fosters long term connections between them which undermines exisiting open administrative structures.

No surprise then that CP is attached to wethecitizens which though well intentioned, I thought, is likely to be another talking shop and power base for middle class intellectuals. Like CP it is also to one side of the democratic process, and only touches base with the 'great unwashed' long distance via its glorified one-off focus group exercise. No doubt in my mind that our democratic process is failing, but the stated purpose of wethecitizens is to restore peoples faith in our bureacracy rather than to fundamentally challenge and change it. At the same time it may create yet another elite who will speak 'for' the people- vis their private meeting with Enda Kenny this week which was not referred to at the launch.

Wtc is at face value a bit like democracy and a bit like public debate, but I can't for the life of me see how it will increase accountability or equality which are in real deficit, and may well be a major distraction with the effect of further sidelining those debates. I don't doubt the sincerity of the wtc board, but the presence of common purpose is worrying for the reasons stated.

[C. Flower]

Cactus asked about Common Purpose. I took part in CP in the UK, and had the same thoughts as Brian Gerrish who is a naval officer who took part in the UK CP and has written and spoken a lot since - see youtube and google. CP would have you believe Gerrish is a conspiracy theorist etc, and had his site closed, but he speaks credibly and makes the point that CP is very secretive and elitist, and is building a network of connected insiders which is essentially antidemocratic. It trains key people in the private and public sector in 'leadership' but also fosters long term connections between them which undermines exisiting open administrative structures.

No surprise then that CP is attached to wethecitizens which though well intentioned, I thought, is likely to be another talking shop and power base for middle class intellectuals. Like CP it is also to one side of the democratic process, and only touches base with the 'great unwashed' long distance via its glorified one-off focus group exercise. No doubt in my mind that our democratic process is failing, but the stated purpose of wethecitizens is to restore peoples faith in our bureacracy rather than to fundamentally challenge and change it. At the same time it may create yet another elite who will speak 'for' the people- vis their private meeting with Enda Kenny this week which was not referred to at the launch.

Wtc is at face value a bit like democracy and a bit like public debate, but I can't for the life of me see how it will increase accountability or equality which are in real deficit, and may well be a major distraction with the effect of further sidelining those debates. I don't doubt the sincerity of the wtc board, but the presence of common purpose is worrying for the reasons stated.

Thanks boozwatch. I remember reading about Common Purpose now. It sounded a bit like the Jesuits, but without the religion.

I agree with what you day about We the Citizens.

Surely, the whole population needs to engage politically, not just a statistical sample ?

[coolvr]

"We the Citizens" says that it wants to promote greater participation in democracy by the Irish population, but has chosen to do so in a form that involves a very small number of people, with no certainty that the final report will have any impact. It will however give some credibility and public profile to the organisation itself. This organisation is entirely top down in character.


Can't argue with that and it's pretty much the way democracy works in Ireland and a lot of other countries, give the rabble the idea that they have a say but keep the power to the "important people that matter".

Have no doubt that there are some very well intentioned people involved in this organisation but at the same time it's bound to attract people who have a totally different agenda, whether that be just to observe or to try to steer it in the "right direction".


Surely, the whole population needs to engage politically, not just a statistical sample ?

Am losing what little faith I had in the general population tbh, the last time "we" engaged politically in the GE almost 75% of the electorate voted for the parties proposing more cuts, more austerity and more wealth being transferred to the minority rich with a reduced standard of living for everyone else.

Too many people are still living in denial but the day is fast approaching when they will no longer have that luxury and may well wish they had stood up and said "enough is enough" instead of doing the usual "sure we are where we are, what can you do but carry on".

Somebody posted a link to Micheal D. Higgins last speech in the Dail recently, We The Citizens could do far worse than spend some money making that speech available to every school in the country...Perhaps even go further and make it available to every man, woman and child in the country...It would be a far better use of the money than their current proposals.

[C. Flower]

Fiach mac Conghail is on TWIP, - asked why this should be needed so soon after a General Election.

[PaddyJoe]

Chuck Feeney's funding was more usefully employed in setting up the Centre for Public Inquiry in 2004. It was engaged in producing a report on the Docklands Development Authority when political pressure from FF and the PDs shut it down.
Chuck's dollars for Citizens Ar Us is unlikely to cause any discomfort in business and political circles.

[Andrew49]

...

Have no doubt that there are some very well intentioned people involved in this organisation but at the same time it's bound to attract people who have a totally different agenda, whether that be just to observe or to try to steer it in the "right direction".
.
.
.
.


A devastating critique of our situation and [We the Citizens] get a mention from Gene Kerrigan in the Sunday Indo (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/gene-kerrigan-being-chirpy-wont-get-us-anywhere-2647452.html)

... the top 600 civil servants escaped the cuts imposed on the rank and file. Magically, levies don't apply to judges. And the wealthiest have a special dispensation from the new pension levy.


This is what happens when the system is weighted in favour of the people who matter, while the rest of us get the bill. When we fail to recognise that others are acting to preserve their wealth at our expense, we stand idle and concede the battle to them. And the bright, chirpy people think we're merely suffering a shortage of civilised discussion and perky ideas. Their latest campaign, We The Citizens, is bankrolled to the tune of €630,000 by a well-intentioned American billionaire, so they enjoy comforts other campaigns do not. They commission expensive surveys and hold meetings in hotels, and they entice people to the meetings by offering not just discussion but free food and entertainment.


"Supper will be served from 6.15pm and discussion will begin at 7pm. Gary Cooke of Apres Match fame and John Colleary will close the night with hilarious political comedy that's sure to have everyone smiling."



And an album or two from Chris De Burgh, of course :rolleyes:

[Rich]

Classic US Astroturf groups claim to be non-partisan but ususally have a particular agenda that can, at the very least, be tied to a more mainstream political entity. We the citizens has not offered any particular political line at the moment so I don't think that they are going to be a Tea Party/Coffee Party entity.

The nature of WTC is still open to question, I think it deserves a little time to see what comes out of it.

I hope to attend the meeting in Tallaght on 1 June - I'll let y'all know what I think then.

[C. Flower]

Classic US Astroturf groups claim to be non-partisan but ususally have a particular agenda that can, at the very least, be tied to a more mainstream political entity. We the citizens has not offered any particular political line at the moment so I don't think that they are going to be a Tea Party/Coffee Party entity.

The nature of WTC is still open to question, I think it deserves a little time to see what comes out of it.

I hope to attend the meeting in Tallaght on 1 June - I'll let y'all know what I think then.

RTE 1 has a programme at the moment on We the Citizens - It seems that Fiach is now a Senator - not sure who appointed him.

He says that it is a demonstration project, to show the value of participatory involvement by citizens in policy development.

"Reset Ireland - Claiming our Future - We the Citizens... "

"We will not achieve political change through polite little discussion groups"

says one participant who went to all of the above.

"What will achieve real change, has been shown elsewhere to be to fundamentally take down what we have now."

Community sector has failed in this, she said.

[C. Flower]

Well - who would have thought it. "One idea keeps coming up...National Service"...

http://yfrog.com/h3nkwuvj

[Griska]

Well - who would have thought it. "One idea keeps coming up...National Service"...

http://yfrog.com/h3nkwuvj

No doubt Elaine would approve of National Service once the conscripts wore blue shirts.

[Dr. FIVE]

I wouldn't say its the army they're on about tbh

[Griska]

I wouldn't say its the army they're on about tbh

Possibly not.
My outrageously hillarious joke wouldn't have worked otherwise though:cool:

[Rich]

Just back from the WtC meeting. Very well attended. Very interesting people but I think it will end up focusing on specific areas of political reform.

[Apjp]

I went to the launch of "We the Citizens" this morning in the shiny surroundings of the RHA.

"We the Citizens" on the occasion of its launch already has in place a full time staff of three, a Board, an "International Scientific Advisory Board" and an "Academic Team".

It has funding of more than €600,000, from Atlantic Philanthropies, a US charity which purports to be in the main a one man fund established by Chuck Feeney, who has himself relinquished any personal wealth and lives modestly.

"We the Citizens" presents itself as a "bottom up" movement of citizens who will come together to brainstorm ideas for governmental reform. There will be a number of regional workshops, an opinion poll and then a "citizens assembly" of 150 people.

I don't doubt for one moment the good will of people like Elaine Byrne and Jane Suiter, who have given their time to the project and who have fine track records in writing on and debating the economic crisis.

But I find it hard to see the validity of this essentially top heavy and top down exercise. We have just had a General Election and the incoming Government has commitments to Governmental reform that went before the people in election manifestos.

As the WtC process does not have Government backing, it essentially proposes a series of discussions amongst self selected individuals who will "Speak up for a New Ireland". There is no mechanism for continuing action and no way the people taking part can become part of the "We the People" organisation. It is hard to see why it needs the elaborate structures of academics that oversee a very straightforward consultation workshop exercise.

Rather than strengthening democracy, I think that this type of astroturf exercise, which sets itself up as an alternative to electoral democracy, in fact dilutes it.

I can think of a lot of better ways of spending 600,000 euro.

The website, which didn't come cheap, was also launched today.

Imo, an open letter from a group of academics would have served the same purpose and would have had more credibility, and a much lower budget.

http://www.wethecitizens.ie/index.php

This innovative all-action project is made possible by funding received from ATLANTIC PHILANTHROPIES( http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=101261973298779)

APPLY HERE
http://www.spunout.ie/action/Make-a-difference/Application-Form

Check out the 2010 Academy videos and round-up here http://www.spunout.ie/about/Blog/SUPER-BLOG:-Academy-of-Activism-2010-Round_up

Is Spunout.ie another funded project to keep the youth quiet in Ireland??? WTC and S.O.I.E. seems to me to be projects funded by a vested interest who seems intent on pacifying the Irish people. If anything comes free in this life its usually for a reason.

[C. Flower]

This innovative all-action project is made possible by funding received from ATLANTIC PHILANTHROPIES( http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=101261973298779)

APPLY HERE
http://www.spunout.ie/action/Make-a-difference/Application-Form

Check out the 2010 Academy videos and round-up here http://www.spunout.ie/about/Blog/SUPER-BLOG:-Academy-of-Activism-2010-Round_up

Is Spunout.ie another funded project to keep the youth quiet in Ireland??? WTC and S.O.I.E. seems to me to be projects funded by a vested interest who seems intent on pacifying the Irish people. If anything comes free in this life its usually for a reason.

If anything is worth doing, it's worth raising your own funds for it.

The whole idea of individual activists, as opposed to mass organisations/ parties, is one that suits the status quo.

[C. Flower]

Just back from the WtC meeting. Very well attended. Very interesting people but I think it will end up focusing on specific areas of political reform.

Just took a look at their very attractive website (do you think Atlantic Philanthropies might throw a little dosh at PW ? :D )

They have the Citizens Assembly organised in Kilmainham for 25th June.

There are videos of the regional meetings here - did you wave for us, Rich ?

http://www.wethecitizens.ie/

[Dr. FIVE]

http://www.politico.ie/crisisjam/7613-weed-the-citizens.html

[C. Flower]

http://www.politico.ie/crisisjam/7613-weed-the-citizens.html

That's very good stuff from Hugh Green and the Spanish blogger.

To read the press you would think that these millions of people demonstrating are all students and young graduates. They are there, but the big battalions are trade union members and poor people.

[Dr. FIVE]

That's very good stuff from Hugh Green and the Spanish blogger.

To read the press you would think that these millions of people demonstrating are all students and young graduates. They are there, but the big battalions are trade union members and poor people.

We would be told religious fundamentalists only for they're catholic..

[C. Flower]

We would be told religious fundamentalists only for they're catholic..

You're right.

It may have been a bit dark, but I was amused by Al Jazeera's report this week that "Catholic Christians and Protestant Christians" were fighting each other in Ireland.

[Dr. FIVE]

Looking out looking back in

[C. Flower]

Looking out looking back in

Exactly.

[C. Flower]

"We the Citizens" is having it's last big meet-up this weekend in Dublin.
Any reports from anyone there would be appreciated.

[C. Flower]

A summary of what the "Citizens' Assembly" came up with this week end.

http://www.wethecitizens.ie/news/article/citizens_assembly_votes_narrowly_in_favour_of_gend er_quotas

[C. Flower]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0718/1224300883753.html
An update from "We the Citizens"


You may have noticed three articles that appeared in the Irish Times last week. The first article focused on a very prominent theme at the citizens’ events held in Kilkenny, Cork, Galway, Blanchardstown, Tallaght, Letterkenny and Athlone – education. Time and again, at ‘We the Citizens’ events around Ireland, people were concerned that schools don’t produce rounded citizens; that most school-leavers are not competent citizens to the extent of having basic knowledge of the political system, or of having the basic understanding that their actions affect others in society. You can read the article in its entirety here.
The second article addressed what approach Ireland should take when tackling our deficit – spending cuts or tax hikes. While Ireland certainly has tough choices to make, the deliberative democracy model is one way for politicians to consult Irish citizens to ensure a shared ownership of the decision-making process. You can find the full article here.

The third and final article focused on political reform. A central theme at the citizens’ events across the country was citizen empowerment. Irish citizens want the reinstatement of freedom of information legislation with teeth and the right to petition the Dáil to have legislation brought forward. Please find the full article here.

The citizens who participated in the citizens’ assembly casted their ballots on the Sunday session of the Assembly which was economics focused. These results have just been collated and you can find the recommendations here.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0719/1224300946823.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0720/1224301010079.html

This is the result of the voting and is well worth a read as a straw poll on peoples policy preferences.


http://www.wethecitizens.ie/uploads/files/RESULTS%20OF%20SUNDAY%20DELIBERATIONS.pdf

[Frankie Lee]

It seems as if they are proposing just enough democracy for the proles to keep us civilised.

[C. Flower]

It seems as if they are proposing just enough democracy for the proles to keep us civilised.

There are still some things in the feedback that the establishment do not want to hear. For example, most people want higher earners to be taxed more.

[C. Flower]

Final report out. Pushing for "A Citizen's Assembly"

http://wethecitizens.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=11ceac7c18a9e8637bf096ec9&id=e01376e9b9&e=55e1736575

Indications yesterday that Gov. has already bought into this.

[cdgalwegian]

Final report out. Pushing for "A Citizen's Assembly"

http://wethecitizens.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=11ceac7c18a9e8637bf096ec9&id=e01376e9b9&e=55e1736575

Indications yesterday that Gov. has already bought into this.

I attended We The Citizens in Galway about 4/12 ago- it's goin nowhere- because of the Catch-22 of Irish politics! http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?p=202488#post202488

[C. Flower]

I attended We The Citizens in Galway about 4/12 ago- it's goin nowhere- because of the Catch-22 of Irish politics! http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?p=202488#post202488

Government will very likely run with an element of this but it will be only window dressing, behind which the democracy we once had is being trashed.

[Donal Og]

I attended We The Citizens in Galway about 4/12 ago- it's goin nowhere- because of the Catch-22 of Irish politics! http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?p=202488#post202488

Funny you should mention Catch22.I was just thinking about Feeney making millions selling duty free fags and booze to the US Fleet - Milo Minderbinder to the life!:)

[Dr. FIVE]

Chuck still has deep pockets for Ireland


PublicPolicy.ie

Job Description - Senior Researcher

PublicPolicy.ie is a new independent Centre supported by Atlantic Philanthropies. Its purpose is to carry out and support independent research to inform fiscal policy choices in the Republic of Ireland, communicate the results effectively and stimulate constructive discussion amongst policy-makers, civil society and the general public. We currently have an exciting opportunity for a Senior Researcher to join the organisation at this early stage and to play a pivotal research role within the organisation.

Role Purpose : The Senior Researcher will be responsible for ensuring that ‘PublicPolicy.ie’, its staff and its various working groups and initiatives are provided with the research and information required to carry out their work effectively.

Key responsibilities

· Carry out research on designated subjects

· Produce policy briefs, conference and seminar papers on research carried out

· Keep abreast of research findings and key developments in the area of fiscal policy

· Support working groups and members’ access to information on aspects of fiscal policy

· Provide support to interns on allocated projects

· Provide support on other assigned tasks as required

Role Requirements

We seek applications from people of talent and commitment to help lead the research function. The ideal candidate will have the following qualifications, skills, abilities and experience;

· A post-graduate qualification in a relevant discipline (e.g. economics)

· A proven track record in leading public policy research & analysis

· A deep understanding of how the public policy process functions

· Excellent oral and written communications skills

· An ability to communicate to a variety of audiences using a variety of media

· An ability to work independently and as part of a team

· IT Skills

This is a fixed term contract to October 2013, which may be extended for a further period. To apply for this role, please email your Curriculum Vitae and covering letter to Donal de Buitleir (ddebuitleir at eircom.net) by 1st February 2012.

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2012/01/21/job-opportunity-publicpolicyie/

[C. Flower]

Funny you should mention Catch22.I was just thinking about Feeney making millions selling duty free fags and booze to the US Fleet - Milo Minderbinder to the life!:)

Yes, and in the down and dirty Mediterranean ports too. Not an easy place to do business.