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antiestablishmentarian
14-03-2011, 03:02 PM
It seems bizarre, quite frankly, that this should be considered a possibility, but I'm putting this up nonetheless. The Irish Times today claimed that Quinn threw a wobbly and was granted a cabinet seat over the head of Róisín Shortall, who was on course for a senior cabinet position. This has to raise some questions about Gilmores grip on the Labour party, notwithstanding those silly 'Gilmore for Taoiseach' posters. There are 2 former party leaders in the shape of Rabitte and Quinn on the Labour frontbench, and it was only following Rabitte's intervention in the last week that a looming disaster for Labour was averted. The 'Gilmore for Taoiseach' thing didn't come off, and his position would seem to have been weakened. So is it possible that continued tensions inside the LP (as the media seem to believe is the case) might bring Gilmore to the brink?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0314/1224292062260.html

TotalMayhem
14-03-2011, 03:09 PM
The Irish Times today claimed that Quinn threw a wobbly and was granted a cabinet seat over the head of Róisín Shortall, who was on course for a senior cabinet position.

I suppose, 4th Level Ventures would have been quite disappointed if their former chairman wouldn't have gotten a job as minister for either education or innovation.

And I believe, Gilbore's deputy leader Moan Burton is not a very happy puppy at the moment.

Kid Ryder
14-03-2011, 04:04 PM
Is Ho Chi Quinn some kind of 'power behind the throne' in the Labour party? Or is he the figurehead for those holding lingering 'anti-Stick' sentiments inside it? This will bear some watching, for of the two govt. parties Labour is the one that is more vulnerable to external or 'event' pressure. Fine Gael never makes any secret of their 'kill the poor' political outlook, and will not suffer overmuch for its implementation, whereas Labour would have us believe they're 'on our side' when they are actually 'on our backs'. Future events will make this clear, and the repercussions for Labour are not going to be pretty...

homer
14-03-2011, 05:22 PM
Heave a little premature but he does seem to have made a shambles of his cabinet choices.

culmore
14-03-2011, 05:30 PM
He can always do a michael O Leary on it and join FG.

Baron von Biffo
14-03-2011, 06:07 PM
Heave a little premature but he does seem to have made a shambles of his cabinet choices.

Who would you have picked and which of Gilmore's pick would you drop?

C. Flower
14-03-2011, 06:18 PM
Who would you have picked and which of Gilmore's pick would you drop?

I would have dropped Fine Gael :D

Buddha
14-03-2011, 06:38 PM
What we have here, in my poor estimation, is a clash of huge egos, not unexpected, but mix that with two former leaders of the party, and the deeply denied "them and us" attitude that still exists between former DL members and "pure" bred Labour and the distribution of largesse i.e. ministerial positions, and it would be a miracle if all was going smoothly.

What annoys me about this is that the country's needs are paramount. The people's needs are desperate. There is no time for this bloody rubbish. I hope the rumours are wrong, but if they are not, once again we have a government that is putting all else before the country, and the pathetic people who are causing this need a bloody good talking to.

TotalMayhem
14-03-2011, 07:01 PM
I hope the rumours are wrong, but if they are not, once again we have a government that is putting all else before the country

Not for one minute would I consider these people any better than the shower they have replaced.

jmcc
14-03-2011, 07:05 PM
What we have here, in my poor estimation, is a clash of huge egos, not unexpected, but mix that with two former leaders of the party, and the deeply denied "them and us" attitude that still exists between former DL members and "pure" bred Labour and the distribution of largesse i.e. ministerial positions, and it would be a miracle if all was going smoothly.Seems like the normal clash between Old Labour and DL. The DL mob might have been very radical as students (some even moreso) but making a few quid changed their outlook and they became very much part of the system. The Old Labour mob are more diverse in that they contain two elements: the champagne socialists (Quinn et al) and the true believers who would probably have been more from the Unions/working class background. The Old Labour mobs could coexist but the introduction of the DL element has destabilised the old regime. The bigger question for Labour is not the allocation of cabinet seats but rather how long it can go before the pressure from adverse media coverage over cuts causes it to explode.

Regards...jmcc

Buddha
14-03-2011, 09:13 PM
Lets wait and see. You never know, we might actually get a good, honest, caring government. Give it a month. If people can believe in a God, then they can surely believe in a good, honest, caring go............I'm being ridiculous now. Get a grip Buddha!

Griska
14-03-2011, 09:40 PM
Gilmore has some goodwill in his account, one would suspect after the election.
However, as it was obvious to those outside Labour that they had a very poor campaign, there may be a faction who think they wasted the best opportunity they are likely to have.

Gilmore's treadment of Burton was shabby. Regardless of why she didn't get the second finance portfolio, the fact that she was expecting it reflects that she was told she would.
I really do think Gilmore bowed before FG to give them an easier ride.
I don't have much time for Burton, but I have less for Howlin, and can picture Burton at least making an almighty noise when she is not listened to.

Personally I think Gilmore was in the right place at the right time. Rabitte would have been tougher and stood up to Inda more.

C. Flower
14-03-2011, 09:44 PM
Gilmore has some goodwill in his account, one would suspect after the election.
However, as it was obvious to those outside Labour that they had a very poor campaign, there may be a faction who think they wasted the best opportunity they are likely to have.

Gilmore's treadment of Burton was shabby. Regardless of why she didn't get the second finance portfolio, the fact that she was expecting it reflects that she was told she would.
I really do think Gilmore bowed before FG to give them an easier ride.
I don't have much time for Burton, but I have less for Howlin, and can picture Burton at least making an almighty noise when she is not listened to.

Personally I think Gilmore was in the right place at the right time. Rabitte would have been tougher and stood up to Inda more.


There are probably two groups at least with grievances. There are people who feel that Labour betrayed by supporting FG and there are people who are ambitious and feel that Gilmore threw away a much bigger opportunity to run a better campaign and position Labour for a stronger role in Government,

Griska
14-03-2011, 09:52 PM
There are probably two groups at least with grievances. There are people who feel that Labour betrayed by supporting FG and there are people who are ambitious and feel that Gilmore threw away a much bigger opportunity to run a better campaign and position Labour for a stronger role in Government,

Well, a Labour supporter who thought Gilmore was going to do anything but try enter a coaliton with the Blueys was at best deluded.

The campaign itself was a total disaster for the LP. To try connect with ordinary working people, I reckon the blatant baby-kissing, uncomfortable looking Gilmore campaigning like a "Big Party" should was a mistake.
Visibility is one thing. But trying to out FG/FF in electioneering just made the LP look like them.

Kev Bar
14-03-2011, 10:45 PM
Not for one minute would I consider these people any better than the shower they have replaced.

They may have played a better game of hard to get as I thought the best quote to come out of the same period last time round was the FF insider who called the Greens 'the easiest lay in Irish politics.'

If they were given the chance, they might, well possibly might, be better at scaring off the predatory titans who given the chance would assist them in creating a mess to rival the one we are in.


The predators, however, are coming in a different guise.

Connie
15-03-2011, 06:30 AM
i certainly endorse that !!


Not for one minute would I consider these people any better than the shower they have replaced.

C. Flower
15-03-2011, 06:32 AM
i certainly endorse that !!

Do you see any alternative? We are running out of options!

Baron von Biffo
15-03-2011, 10:50 AM
I would have dropped Fine Gael :D

:):D:D

Apjp
15-03-2011, 01:59 PM
maybe tommy braughan and joanna tuffy, who will vote against the govt on some things, might join forces with cllr's paddy nulty and the other 5% of the party, as well as most of the party's youth, that was angry at the party for going in with fg to form a new DL party? Worth considering from their point of view. They'd have 2 td's already sure of re-election if they do indeed vote against the budget. Interesting times ahead. I couldnt be more glad of my interest in economics 'going forward' as the way things are going, when a left govt eventually gets in, we'll need all hands on deck in that area first and foremost. Popcorn at the ready. there wont be a major split, but perhaps upto 5 lp tds and some senators and councillors will defect with the youth section. Thats where I believe the smart money is. However, that could be very soon or closer to the next GE.

antiestablishmentarian
16-03-2011, 03:38 PM
maybe tommy braughan and joanna tuffy, who will vote against the govt on some things, might join forces with cllr's paddy nulty and the other 5% of the party, as well as most of the party's youth, that was angry at the party for going in with fg to form a new DL party? Worth considering from their point of view. They'd have 2 td's already sure of re-election if they do indeed vote against the budget. Interesting times ahead. I couldnt be more glad of my interest in economics 'going forward' as the way things are going, when a left govt eventually gets in, we'll need all hands on deck in that area first and foremost. Popcorn at the ready. there wont be a major split, but perhaps upto 5 lp tds and some senators and councillors will defect with the youth section. Thats where I believe the smart money is. However, that could be very soon or closer to the next GE.

They won't Apjp, they're just letting off steam so they can point to this episode come next election, and retain their seats when their colleagues all lose them.

C. Flower
16-03-2011, 04:18 PM
They won't Apjp, they're just letting off steam so they can point to this episode come next election, and retain their seats when their colleagues all lose them.

I can't think who this reminds me of.....

antiestablishmentarian
16-03-2011, 04:21 PM
I can't think who this reminds me of.....

http://suz143.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/mattie-mcgrath.jpg

Mattie McGrath, eat your heart out

Apjp
16-03-2011, 06:33 PM
They won't Apjp, they're just letting off steam so they can point to this episode come next election, and retain their seats when their colleagues all lose them.

we'll see. you may well be right. what labour youth people are telln me is that they were never angrier at the party's leadership and that they are more left than the whole party. Yet still they cling in the hope that they can inherit the party one day. the desire for power, whatever about the varying of left levels from mostly centre to a few being near socialist in the LP-LPY, is something they all share.

antiestablishmentarian
16-03-2011, 07:19 PM
we'll see. you may well be right. what labour youth people are telln me is that they were never angrier at the party's leadership and that they are more left than the whole party. Yet still they cling in the hope that they can inherit the party one day. the desire for power, whatever about the varying of left levels from mostly centre to a few being near socialist in the LP-LPY, is something they all share.

I know where you're coming from. I've heard the same thing from LY members myself. But one thing that I've noticeed is that they tend to be more focused on social issues rather than economic issues and had no real political alternatives to the status quo rather than to point to Sweden or Denmark as a possible model. In case you've forgotten, they also supported the Lisbon Treaties.

whydontwe
16-03-2011, 07:23 PM
I've been 'heaving' ever since they all began to lie just to get themselves on the 'gravy-train' !!

People Korps
16-03-2011, 09:54 PM
Labour Yes Stickies Nein danke

People Korps
16-03-2011, 09:55 PM
and to qualify Labour Yes minus the Blueshirts :) Stickies still ...nein danke

Apjp
16-03-2011, 11:35 PM
I know where you're coming from. I've heard the same thing from LY members myself. But one thing that I've noticeed is that they tend to be more focused on social issues rather than economic issues and had no real political alternatives to the status quo rather than to point to Sweden or Denmark as a possible model. In case you've forgotten, they also supported the Lisbon Treaties.

Better to have the danish social democrats with their lutheran philosphies, equitable taxation etc instead of Lab/FG. Lets be honest-Denmark is a contradiction to the needs for socialism. That place is recession proof under social democracy with low unemployment. No such thing as the long term unemployed there. The wealthy pay 51.5% income tax. Never mind the 48% bullshit rate not even on offer here. I love the danes. They're light years ahead of us. Many a marxist economist would also happily praise their social advancement in many state sectors too.

Dr. FIVE
05-06-2011, 06:57 PM
Surely too early in the term but even before the wiki revelations the cracks we're beginning to show during the poor election campaign.
Before he had even lived down "labour's way" he failed to even get Eamon's way when the jobs were being doled out.

Since then he has been invisible, while Enda capitalised on the visits the Tánaiste and Minister for foreign affairs seemed like a bit player.

Phoenix paints an interesting picture in this weeks profile leading with
"suspicions within lab that Gilmore's personal decline in the face of the GE spotlight damaged his confidence and that his leadership has been undermined."

So who's in the running?

C. Flower
05-06-2011, 07:24 PM
Surely too early in the term but even before the wiki revelations the cracks we're beginning to show during the poor election campaign.
Before he had even lived down "labour's way" he failed to even get Eamon's way when the jobs were being doled out.

Since then he has been invisible, while Enda capitalised on the visits the Tánaiste and Minister for foreign affairs seemed like a bit player.

Phoenix paints an interesting picture in this weeks profile leading with

So who's in the running?

I've followed labour's progress in the opinion polls over the last few years. Every time they make noises about trying to form a Labour government they go up and whenever they cosy up to fg or ff they go down.
Gilmore in settling for the non job of foreign affairs as good as announced early retirement and total handover to fg.

Griska
05-06-2011, 07:28 PM
Posted this on the other Gilmore thread.
I'd forgotten about this one.


Sarah McInerney and Stephen O'Brien in the Sunday Times:


Some (TDs) have even talked about the possibility of creating a separate group within the party-akin to the 1922 Committee in Britain's Conservative Party-to channel backbench concerns. Not quite a heave, but significant nonetheless.
If this were to come to pass, Gilmore would be finished.

DCon
06-06-2011, 03:18 PM
A few reports today on "tensions" but no particular Heave hints.


Labour also rejected reports that party leader Eamon Gilmore had moved to set limits on criticism of proposed Government policy from backbench deputies.

This followed a series of statements from a number of Labour Party TDs that were openly critical of the proposals by Minister for Enterprise Richard Bruton to cut premium pay and overtime in some sectoral wage agreements.

Sources said Mr Gilmore invoked Newton’s Law at Labour’s parliamentary party last week when he said that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. It was a cautionary note to warn deputies and Senators that an over-abundance of overt criticism of Fine Gael Ministers could rebound on the party, said a party source.



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0606/1224298471160.html



COMMUNICATIONS Minister Pat Rabbitte yesterday admitted the Fine Gael-Labour Coalition is likely to face the most serious opposition from within its own ranks as it grapples to deal with the crisis in the public finances.

Fresh from the first strains between the two parties over Enterprise Minister Richard Bruton's plans to overhaul the pay rates of 250,000 workers, Mr Rabbitte said backbenchers from Labour and Fine Gael were going to emerge as "the serious opposition".

It follows on from Tanaiste Eamon Gilmore last week saying that Labour backbenchers were free to speak their minds on Government policy, and signals further leeway given by the party leadership to rank-and-file TDs as a host of contentious issues face the Coalition.

But Mr Gilmore also warned his TDs that any comments they made protesting against government policy could come back to haunt them.



http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rabbitte-warns-of-backbench-discord-on-finances-2667094.html

antiestablishmentarian
24-06-2011, 06:00 PM
So Labour are holding steady in the polls, but imo solely on the basis that word of the pension age hike contained in the minimum wage bill hasn't got much coverage in the press and because they've been at verbal loggerheads with Richie boy Bruton on the issue of the JLCs. Gilmore has been invisible in the last few weeks, and so far the most vocal Labour cabinet minister has been Quinn, for all the wrong reasons from a voters perspective.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
24-06-2011, 06:07 PM
Gilmore suddenly became busy with our glorious new allies and trading giants Tanzania shortly after the wiki cables revealed that he was an American Embassy owned canary.

disability student
24-06-2011, 06:53 PM
Gilmore suddenly became busy with our glorious new allies and trading giants Tanzania shortly after the wiki cables revealed that he was an American Embassy owned canary.

Well he thinks he is 'somebody' as power, fame have gone into his head. Doubt that he is level headed or grounded ??

C. Flower
24-06-2011, 07:39 PM
Gilmore suddenly became busy with our glorious new allies and trading giants Tanzania shortly after the wiki cables revealed that he was an American Embassy owned canary.

And met up with his State Department handler, Hilary :D

eskerman
24-06-2011, 08:36 PM
Never liked him... two faced and a wimp.. all bluster and waffle and yes the power seems to have gone to his head.

Dr. FIVE
05-03-2012, 06:57 PM
Joan to make a move I think.

When is the question

Dr. FIVE
05-03-2012, 07:00 PM
when = while there is still a party left to lead

Baron von Biffo
05-03-2012, 07:15 PM
Joan to make a move I think.

To complete the transformation of Lab into PD Nua.

TotalMayhem
05-03-2012, 07:52 PM
Moan is way to comfy haranguing social welfare recipents re their lifestyles. Can't see her giving up her Merc anytime soon.

Greengoddess
05-03-2012, 08:00 PM
Joan to make a move I think.

When is the question

2014 maybe after dreadful election. Too late.

Baron von Biffo
05-03-2012, 10:30 PM
2014 maybe after dreadful election. Too late.

Hopefully she and her cabinet colleagues wont be gracing the next Dail.

antiestablishmentarian
06-03-2012, 11:04 AM
Hopefully she and her cabinet colleagues wont be gracing the next Dail.

They're probably already ticking off the days until their ministerial pensions are activated and they can safely retire.

DCon
06-03-2012, 11:08 AM
Moan is way to comfy haranguing social welfare recipents re their lifestyles. Can't see her giving up her Merc anytime soon.

Ah you have to feel for her really.

Her husband was on newstalk yesterday saying they do not buy theatre tickets any more. Because Joan might have to work late and they may miss out. Gone are the handy days of theatre attending Opposition.

They just go to the cinema now as you can just turn up with the plebs and do not need to book in advance

Greengoddess
06-03-2012, 11:08 AM
Hopefully she and her cabinet colleagues wont be gracing the next Dail.
Just who do you have in mind as replacements, Baron?

Greengoddess
06-03-2012, 11:19 AM
Ah you have to feel for her really.

Her husband was on newstalk yesterday saying they do not buy theatre tickets any more. Because Joan might have to work late and they may miss out. Gone are the handy days of theatre attending Opposition.

They just go to the cinema now as you can just turn up with the plebs and do not need to book in advance

I don't think family members have experience of media and shouldn't be held responsible . Why shouldn't he just want to have time with her?

DCon
06-03-2012, 11:26 AM
Why shouldn't he just want to have time with her?

No reason at all.

But being in government is a time consuming job and very well remunerated as a result.

If theatre attendance was his priority he should have encouraged his wife against a career in politics

Dr. FIVE
06-03-2012, 01:09 PM
It's only him missing out.
She sees more then enough theatrics at work

disability student
06-03-2012, 01:23 PM
Is he needy? Is that receipe for divorce??

Once you enter a public life such as a government minister ... you have to put up with it or shut up :D

Greengoddess
06-03-2012, 01:40 PM
Is he needy? Is that receipe for divorce??

Once you enter a public life such as a government minister ... you have to put up with it or shut up :D

Implies that people are rational . They're not.

Baron von Biffo
07-03-2012, 12:55 PM
Just who do you have in mind as replacements, Baron?


I think that Lab should be ditched at the next GE because, like the Greens before them, they abandoned their principles to get into office. That said, given the dross in the current Dail, we could probably pick names at random to replace them without noticing too much of a change.

It might be no harm if the next GE left us with SF and the alphabet soup forming all or part of the government. Not that I would hold out any hope of them being any better than the current lot but if we could see that their haloes are made of pipe-cleaners and tinfoil it might stir us to start taking politics seriously.

Cato
26-03-2012, 07:09 PM
The Labour Party conference will be taking place in April and is expected to be a fiery one for the Leadership and they are taking great efforts to control it and its outcomes. One interesting feature is the first skirmishes of what may eventually turn into a leadership battle.

Much as the Spanish Civil War was a preamble to WWII and was a proxy fight between Nazi Germany and the USSR, the contest for the position of Chairperson of the Labour party is turning into a proxy fight between Gilmore and a future challenger.

Miriam Lord had a little titbit in her column in Saturday's Irish Times (I cannot find a link) concerning the contest for the position of Chairperson of the Labour Party. There is a three way battle taking place between Derek Nolan, Colm Keaveney, and Brian O'Shea. The first two are sitting TDs and the last is a former one.

The story was also covered in the last issue of the Phoenix Magazine;

Talking of the position of chair;


The post doesn’t carry huge significance, but the holder chairs conference and meetings of both the central council and the 13-person executive board. While Gilmore and HQ would retain a majority on the executive and council, the election of a chairman from the awkward squad could make life more difficult.

Talking of Nolan;


Derek is no left wing firebrand and thereis no way he entered the race without the nodfrom Gilmore and handlers, Mark Garrettand David Leach.

...

As chairman, Derekcan be trusted not to upset fellow Galwayman Gilmore, especially if there are nastymotions such as demands to pull out ofGovernment coming up at future conferencesor exec board meetings.

The article notes that the entry of Keaveney and O'Shea may just throw a "spanner in the works" of Gilmore and HQ's plans to stitch up key party positions. O'Shea can rely on a significant portion of 'old Labour' support against the 'Democratic Left' element that performed a reverse take-over of the Labour Party and still hold the whip hand.

The Phoenix notes that Burton may well be using Keaveney as a proxy fighter. It notes that they are close. The PLP itself seems to be split into those in the Gilmore camp, those in the Burton (or at least anti-Gilmore camp) and the 'maybe' camp.

The Burton/anti-Gilmore camp; Conway, Dowds, Keaveney, Kelly (Alan), Kenny, Lynch, McCarthy, McNamara, Nash, Ryan, Spring, Tuffy, White, Harte, Hayden, Kelly (John), Maloney, and Whelan.

The Gilmore camp; Costello, Ferris, Hannigan, Lynch (Kathleen) (on an exit route to EU as a MEP), Nolan, Ó'Ríordáin, O'Sullivan, Quinn (on an exit route to the EU as Commissioner and so is playing ball), Rabbitte, Sherlock, Stagg, Bacik, Higgins, Moran, and O'Keeffe

The 'maybe' camp; Byrne, Conaghan, Humphreys, Lyons, Maloney, Penrose (he's supporting O'Shea for the Chair but is defiantly old Labour), Phelan, Shortall, Wall, Gilroy, Heffernan, Landy

Howlin is the joker in the pack - but is playing a canny game within the party.

What will be interesting to see is if Burton who, along with Quinn, is livid at the control that the cabinet subcommittee of Kenny, Noonan, Gilmore and Howlin is exercising on the economic strategy of the government, will come out publicly in favour of Keaveney.

O'Shea will draw on the Old Labour element for support and it will be a measure of the strength of that constituency in the party as to how he does. Keaveney is a union man and will be drawing on that support as well as on some of the anti-Gilmore/anti-Stickies element which he will share with O'Shea.

The real leadership battle will probably only kick off after the coming local elections. If (and it's probable) the councillors get a kicking at that election, then Gilmore will be in trouble. A large element of the Parliamentary Party and an even larger element of the Labour Councillors are already unhappy with Gilmore but it will likely explode if the locals go badly. In the meantime, the contest for party chair will be a test of the relative strength of the different camps.

Greengoddess
26-03-2012, 08:13 PM
Seems like the normal clash between Old Labour and DL. The DL mob might have been very radical as students (some even moreso) but making a few quid changed their outlook and they became very much part of the system. The Old Labour mob are more diverse in that they contain two elements: the champagne socialists (Quinn et al) and the true believers who would probably have been more from the Unions/working class background. The Old Labour mobs could coexist but the introduction of the DL element has destabilised the old regime. The bigger question for Labour is not the allocation of cabinet seats but rather how long it can go before the pressure from adverse media coverage over cuts causes it to explode.

Regards...jmcc

Good analysis

Nightwishh
27-03-2012, 11:33 AM
there are was good work !

Apjp
27-03-2012, 02:25 PM
jaysus watch out for trolls and spambots is right admin. well banned.

Richardbouvet
27-03-2012, 03:21 PM
Not sure why Keavney is being billed as the rebel. He is often on RTE Late debate, where he acts as a very loyal govt spokesman and little else. Arthur Spring is much better in that sense, but he is not running for chair.

Joan is clearly angling to present herself as an alternative to Gilmore and she is not doing an entirely bad job of that.

Baron von Biffo
20-07-2012, 10:05 AM
The minister for Lifestyle Choices has stepped things up several notches.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/burton-refuses-to-rule-out-future-labour-leader-role-559948.html

Richardbouvet
20-07-2012, 10:24 AM
I wouldn't call that several notches.

Its a bit more like a Gordon Brown strategy. Let people know you want the job, and wait your turn, but don't actually rock the boat.

Baron von Biffo
20-07-2012, 10:28 AM
I wouldn't call that several notches.

Its a bit more like a Gordon Brown strategy. Let people know you want the job, and wait your turn, but don't actually rock the boat.


:)

Greengoddess
20-07-2012, 11:30 AM
No one ever says " no" outright. Howlin has also not ruled it out which, IMOP, is more interesting....

Baron von Biffo
20-07-2012, 06:14 PM
No one ever says " no" outright. Howlin has also not ruled it out which, IMOP, is more interesting....

Doesn't the usual formula involve declaring that there's no vacancy, that the incumbent is the best thing since sliced bread and a profession of loyalty?

Hard to know which would destroy whatever remaining hopes Lab has - The insufferably pompous shortarse or the notoriously tetchy sexist.

Greengoddess
20-07-2012, 06:25 PM
Doesn't the usual formula involve declaring that there's no vacancy, that the incumbent is the best thing since sliced bread and a profession of loyalty?

Hard to know which would destroy whatever remaining hopes Lab has - The insufferably pompous shortarse or the notoriously tetchy sexist.

Sexist?

Baron von Biffo
20-07-2012, 06:26 PM
Sexist?

Burton.

Dr. FIVE
29-09-2012, 09:56 PM
SunTimes has sources claiming Labour concerned Roisin planning to take Gilmore out. Sources close to Roisin claim that's the plan

..

Baron von Biffo
29-09-2012, 10:04 PM
SunTimes has sources claiming Labour concerned Roisin planning to take Gilmore out. Sources close to Roisin claim that's the plan

..

http://ailaham.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/kamikaze.jpg

Greengoddess
29-09-2012, 10:51 PM
http://ailaham.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/kamikaze.jpg

Now or before? Suspect stalking horse. This is getting a bit strange

musashi
29-09-2012, 10:58 PM
http://mgoblog.com/sites/mgoblog.com/files/mgoupload/DearDiaryResignsfortheGoodoftheNation_AB67/michaeljacksoneatingpopcorn.gif

Dr. FIVE
29-09-2012, 11:04 PM
This is getting a bit strange

great isn't it? :)

I think there is a big appetite out there for the topple of Gilmore and Garrett. Credibility is in tatters in the public mind and he has been a complete letdown for the party since midway through the election right up to now. Mé féin

Early coup could be the best thing for ye and might go some way to towards focusing the minds of your other Ministers who appear to resting on their laurels by any perception.

Cato
30-09-2012, 12:37 AM
great isn't it? :)

I think there is a big appetite out there for the topple of Gilmore and Garrett. Credibility is in tatters in the public mind and he has been a complete letdown for the party since midway through the election right up to now. Mé féin

Early coup could be the best thing for ye and might go some way to towards focusing the minds of your other Ministers who appear to resting on their laurels by any perception.


Don't forget Leech. He'll have to go too.

Baron von Biffo
30-09-2012, 03:49 PM
Now or before? Suspect stalking horse. This is getting a bit strange

Had she been a stalking horse we could have expected coded expressions of support from the candidate she was backing by this stage. Not alone has there been silence but the most likely challenger fort Shortall to be working for, Burton, has completely cut the ground from under her with those 'national interest' comments.

Greengoddess
30-09-2012, 04:14 PM
Had she been a stalking horse we could have expected coded expressions of support from the candidate she was backing by this stage. Not alone has there been silence but the most likely challenger fort Shortall to be working for, Burton, has completely cut the ground from under her with those 'national interest' comments.
I was never very good at these things. Mind you I wrote that yesterday !

C. Flower
04-10-2012, 09:39 PM
The push against Reilly, given that Gilmore has backed him to the hilt, is a criticism of Gilmore.

Cian O'Callaghan and Senator Susan O'Keefe on Primetime are expressing concern about Reilly.

Dr. FIVE
13-12-2012, 11:38 PM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lk2ptckYLn1qaubulo1_100.gif

Dr. FIVE
14-12-2012, 12:36 AM
The Galway East TD said Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton had done an “outstanding job”, but was critical of the economic council which is made up of Taoiseach Enda Kenny, Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore,[and the handlers] Minister for Finance Michael Noonan and Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform Brendan Howlin.



“The failure I believe emerged from the Economic Management Council.They sprung an odious budget on people like me who are new to Dáil, new to budgets. I wasn’t elected for this and it isn’t what I promised,” Keaveney said.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1214/1224327836774.html

Mick Tully
14-12-2012, 01:21 AM
Can't load it, credit wikipedia.

The LP/WP never had a problem with opposition, it was sorted quite easily.

Despite the truce, Costello was shot dead as he sat in his car on the North Strand Road in Dublin on 5 October 1977 by a member of the Official IRA, Jim Flynn who happened to be in the area at the time.[6] The Official and Provisional IRAs both denied responsibility and Sinn Féin/The Workers' Party issued a statement condemning the killing. Members of an opposing INLA faction in Belfast also denied the killing. However, the INLA eventually deemed Flynn the person responsible, and he was shot dead in June 1982 in the North Strand, Dublin, very close to the spot where Costello died.[7]
Costello is the only leader of an Irish political party murdered to date.
At the time of his death, he was a member of the following bodies:
Wicklow County Council
County Wicklow Committee of Agriculture
General Council of Committees of Agriculture
Eastern Regional Development Organisation
National Museum Development Committee
Bray Urban District Council
Bray Branch of the Irish Transport and General Workers Union
Bray and District Trade Unions Council (of which he was president 1976-77)
Cualann Historical Society
as well as still holding the positions of
Chairperson of the IRSP and
Chief of Staff of the INLA.
His funeral was attended by Ruairí Ó Brádaigh, the then president of Sinn Féin, Michael O'Riordan of the Communist Party of Ireland, Bernadette McAliskey and local Wicklow TDs Liam Kavanagh (Labour), Ciarán Murphy (Fianna Fáil) and Godfrey Timmins (Fine Gael). At his funeral, Senator Nora Connolly O'Brien, daughter of the Easter Rising leader James Connolly, gave the oration.[8]
“ Of all the politicians and political people with whom I have had conversations, and whom I have had conversations, and who called themselves followers of Connolly, he was the only one who truly understood what James Connolly meant when he spoke of his vision of the freedom of the Irish people ”
—Nora Connolly O'Brien
[edit]Notes

Dr. FIVE
14-12-2012, 02:03 AM
Hardly relevant here though?

C. Flower
14-12-2012, 09:05 AM
Hardly relevant here though?

Tragic loss. So much easier to go the Gilmore route.


The Garda and Special Branch attacked the party's offices, assaulted its members, and arrested 40 of its leading members. Our second chairperson and a gifted mass leader, Miriam Daly, was stolen away from us a brief three years later, murdered by the SAS masquerading as loyalist thugs, and within months of her murder, the intelligent, energetic, and capable Ronnie Bunting and Noel Little too were felled by SAS assassins. In 1981 the loss of O'Hara, Lynch, and Devine alone would have been a devastating to many movements, but we lost a number of others in shoot-to-kill murders by the state, death on active service, and mass arrests on the evidence of super-grass perjurers.

C. Flower
31-12-2012, 02:37 PM
Roisin Shorthall announces a New Year heave (on New Year's Eve lol)

http://dublinpeople.com/article.php?id=1939&l=100#.UOGiXF8D17h.twitter

Greengoddess
31-12-2012, 02:52 PM
Roisin Shorthall announces a New Year heave (on New Year's Eve lol)

http://dublinpeople.com/article.php?id=1939&l=100#.UOGiXF8D17h.twitter

Yikes! She has to e taken seriously .

Dr. FIVE
31-12-2012, 03:35 PM
2013 is the Chinese year of Gilmore sleeping with one eye open.

Baron von Biffo
31-12-2012, 04:37 PM
Yikes! She has to e taken seriously .

Why?

Greengoddess
31-12-2012, 04:51 PM
Why?

Not given to impulsive behaviour. Things are thought out. However she is outside the PLP . The stalking horse thing might be a possibility or an accidental consequence.

Baron von Biffo
31-12-2012, 05:02 PM
Not given to impulsive behaviour. Things are thought out. However she is outside the PLP . The stalking horse thing might be a possibility or an accidental consequence.

If her antics are evidence of what she does when she thinks things out then maybe she should yield to the odd impulse. Speaking against Reilly in the Dail and then voting confidence in him before storming out in a blaze of recrimination soon afterwards doesn't hint at a great political brain.

EMUII
31-12-2012, 05:13 PM
If her antics are evidence of what she does when she thinks things out then maybe she should yield to the odd impulse. Speaking against Reilly in the Dail and then voting confidence in him before storming out in a blaze of recrimination soon afterwards doesn't hint at a great political brain.

I think she played it perfectly. She doesn't seem to be finished yet, as her interview clearly shows. Maybe she will be the one to get Labour back to.... Labour !

5intheface
31-12-2012, 05:16 PM
Yikes! She has to e taken seriously .

Should that be 'She has two e taken, seriously' or 'She has to be taken seriously'? :D

Baron von Biffo
31-12-2012, 05:28 PM
I think she played it perfectly. She doesn't seem to be finished yet, as her interview clearly shows. Maybe she will be the one to get Labour back to.... Labour !

By what yardstick to you think she played it perfectly? Is it a case, I wonder, of her saying what you want to hear so you're not looking beyond that?

Shortall was a junior minister with the potential for achievement within the constraints of that office. Having failed to live up to that potential she flounced, blaming everyone but herself.

If she ever rejoins Lab and in the unlikely event that they get back into government in her political lifetime she won't be trusted with office. Her other choice is to stay as a whinging independent. She's a failed politician who in 10 years time will only be remembered by anoraks.

EMUII
31-12-2012, 05:45 PM
By what yardstick to you think she played it perfectly? Is it a case, I wonder, of her saying what you want to hear so you're not looking beyond that?

Shortall was a junior minister with the potential for achievement within the constraints of that office. Having failed to live up to that potential she flounced, blaming everyone but herself.

If she ever rejoins Lab and in the unlikely event that they get back into government in her political lifetime she won't be trusted with office. Her other choice is to stay as a whinging independent. She's a failed politician who in 10 years time will only be remembered by anoraks.

You seem to have it in for her a bit... ?

I'm merely observing the series of events since she took to her feet during the MoNC debate. She could've fallen into line and given her backing for Reilly verbally like her colleagues (or fanatically in the case of Lynch) but, she chose to tell the truth . The vote meant nothing because of the whip. She picked her own time to resign the whip. Her timing has been spot on so far and as I said.... she doesn't seem to be finished yet. Gilmore and Kenny are going to have a nervous few weeks in the New Year.

In ten years time she will be remembered as one politician who had a modicum of decency and respect for the electorate, her constituents and the office she holds. The others who stood and backed Reilly to the hilt as Lynch did will be remembered for what they are....

Baron von Biffo
31-12-2012, 06:07 PM
You seem to have it in for her a bit... ?

I'm merely observing the series of events since she took to her feet during the MoNC debate. She could've fallen into line and given her backing for Reilly verbally like her colleagues (or fanatically in the case of Lynch) but, she chose to tell the truth . The vote meant nothing because of the whip. She picked her own time to resign the whip. Her timing has been spot on so far and as I said.... she doesn't seem to be finished yet. Gilmore and Kenny are going to have a nervous few weeks in the New Year.

In ten years time she will be remembered as one politician who had a modicum of decency and respect for the electorate, her constituents and the office she holds. The others who stood and backed Reilly to the hilt as Lynch did will be remembered for what they are....

I think she and Keaveney are more part of the problem than the solution and it depresses me that their cynical stunts get such approval.

EMUII
31-12-2012, 06:18 PM
I think she and Keaveney are more part of the problem than the solution and it depresses me that their cynical stunts get such approval.

Which cynical stunts are they ?

Standing up to píss poor lying politicians perhaps ? I would've thought a cynical stunt might be publicly stating confidence in someone while privately doing the opposite.... or leaving an incompetent Minister in place just to hold onto power while our Health Service circles the drain. I have an Alsatian that can see Reilly isn't fit for purpose but still Gilmore and his front bench have repeatedly stood in the Dáil and defended him.... it will be their undoing.

Baron von Biffo
31-12-2012, 07:01 PM
Which cynical stunts are they ?

Standing up to píss poor lying politicians perhaps ? I would've thought a cynical stunt might be publicly stating confidence in someone while privately doing the opposite.... or leaving an incompetent Minister in place just to hold onto power while our Health Service circles the drain. I have an Alsatian that can see Reilly isn't fit for purpose but still Gilmore and his front bench have repeatedly stood in the Dáil and defended him.... it will be their undoing.

She publicly stated that her Alsatian agreed with yours about Reilly but then she voted confidence in him to save her job. That's a special kind of cynicism.

The Moth
31-12-2012, 07:06 PM
Which cynical stunts are they ?

Standing up to píss poor lying politicians perhaps ? I would've thought a cynical stunt might be publicly stating confidence in someone while privately doing the opposite.... or leaving an incompetent Minister in place just to hold onto power while our Health Service circles the drain. I have an Alsatian that can see Reilly isn't fit for purpose but still Gilmore and his front bench have repeatedly stood in the Dáil and defended him.... it will be their undoing.


+1
Big trouble ahead for Gilmore and his stickie colleagues.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/99053?condense_comments=true&userlanguage=ga&save_prefs=true

EMUII
31-12-2012, 07:10 PM
She publicly stated that her Alsatian agreed with yours about Reilly but then she voted confidence in him to save her job. That's a special kind of cynicism.

I have no personal axe to grind with her but to me, she simply chose her own time to leave. If she was concerned about her job why did she resign ? So you don't see a problem with Gilmore, Quinn and the rest stating confidence in Reilly, even now.... but think what she did was cynical ?

We'll agree to differ then....

goatstoe
31-12-2012, 07:46 PM
Roisin Shorthall announces a New Year heave (on New Year's Eve lol)

http://dublinpeople.com/article.php?id=1939&l=100#.UOGiXF8D17h.twitter

I would concur with everything she says in that article. There is virtue in sticking with a job and seeing it through to the end, but in the case of this government a call had to be made.

Lots of politicians make promises in order to get elected and then can't deliver on them, to paraphrase what Pat Rabbitte said recently. However there are promises this government could have kept if the political will was there. FG and Lab promised a new type of politics, but Kenny's debt to Reilly and Hogan - for example - for backing him when there was a heave against him, just resulted in the same old type of politics continuing as before.

All that will happen is that there will be a cabinet reshuffle next Autumn when Reilly and maybe Hogan will be moved sideways. How can FG stand over this failure to deliver on something that could quite easily be achieved if the political will was there? How can Labour with all the ranting about FF sharp practise and gombeenism down the years from Pat Rabbitte and others stand over it?

In the absence of a new political force emerging, or SF getting rid of the old guard leadership and modernising themselves, FF will be back leading the next Irish government. Labour's only hope for survival is to dump their discredited leadership.

Dr. FIVE
31-12-2012, 08:15 PM
There is virtue in sticking with a job and seeing it through to the end, but in the case of this government a call had to be made.

See the difference with Jan O'Sullivan standing behind Big Phil's whitewash of the planning inquiry for example.

Baron von Biffo
01-01-2013, 12:22 PM
I have no personal axe to grind with her but to me, she simply chose her own time to leave. If she was concerned about her job why did she resign ?

Far from choosing her time she was left with no alternative.

By the time she resigned she had burned all her political capital. Her antics over the confidence motion had damaged her beyond repair. She no longer had the capacity to persuade or coerce to achieve her aims so remaining in office would have been one long humiliation.



So you don't see a problem with Gilmore, Quinn and the rest stating confidence in Reilly, even now.... but think what she did was cynical ?

We'll agree to differ then....

Don't forget that 'all the rest' included Shortall. Despite the speech attacking Reilly, she went on to vote confidence in him. That was cynical and hypocritical.

What's amazing about the whole business is how politically inept Shortall was shown to be. Even the most raw green councillor would understand that if a junior minister decides to go public with a 'him or me' attack on her senior she should pack her bag because the battle can't be won.

Had Gilmore and Gump forced Reilly to roll-over it would have had two immediate consequences. First FG would have had to even the score by doing the same to a Lab minister and second, a bar would have been set for every other junior to measure up to. Politically and constitutionally that couldn't be allowed.

goatstoe
01-01-2013, 01:34 PM
Far from choosing her time she was left with no alternative.

By the time she resigned she had burned all her political capital. Her antics over the confidence motion had damaged her beyond repair. She no longer had the capacity to persuade or coerce to achieve her aims so remaining in office would have been one long humiliation.




Don't forget that 'all the rest' included Shortall. Despite the speech attacking Reilly, she went on to vote confidence in him. That was cynical and hypocritical.

What's amazing about the whole business is how politically inept Shortall was shown to be. Even the most raw green councillor would understand that if a junior minister decides to go public with a 'him or me' attack on her senior she should pack her bag because the battle can't be won.

Had Gilmore and Gump forced Reilly to roll-over it would have had two immediate consequences. First FG would have had to even the score by doing the same to a Lab minister and second, a bar would have been set for every other junior to measure up to. Politically and constitutionally that couldn't be allowed.

Where would there be a constitutional impediment to removing Reilly? Reilly's performance has been sub standard, he could have been removed for that reason alone, but he knows that Enda Kenny owes him for when he backed him in the botched heave before he became Taoiseach.

The result is that the people are left with politics continuing as it did before where people who are unfit for certain roles and are also found to be incompetent are just left in situe. The same old politics, no difference whatsoever between the way this FG/Lab govt operate as opposed to the way FF used to operate. So FF could easily be back leading the next government, because FG/Lab are sewing the seeds of their own destruction. They are failing spectacularly to show that they are any different than FF lead governments in every way. If SF can get their act together, they have a real opportunity to get themselves into govt. next time out. Lab will have to tear themselves apart and start again.

C. Flower
01-01-2013, 01:38 PM
I would concur with everything she says in that article. There is virtue in sticking with a job and seeing it through to the end, but in the case of this government a call had to be made.

Lots of politicians make promises in order to get elected and then can't deliver on them, to paraphrase what Pat Rabbitte said recently. However there are promises this government could have kept if the political will was there. FG and Lab promised a new type of politics, but Kenny's debt to Reilly and Hogan - for example - for backing him when there was a heave against him, just resulted in the same old type of politics continuing as before.

All that will happen is that there will be a cabinet reshuffle next Autumn when Reilly and maybe Hogan will be moved sideways. How can FG stand over this failure to deliver on something that could quite easily be achieved if the political will was there? How can Labour with all the ranting about FF sharp practise and gombeenism down the years from Pat Rabbitte and others stand over it?

In the absence of a new political force emerging, or SF getting rid of the old guard leadership and modernising themselves, FF will be back leading the next Irish government. Labour's only hope for survival is to dump their discredited leadership.

As Fine Gael will move to the right, given that austerity will be unacceptable to much of the population, Gilmore and others will stick with them, but the strains in the Labour will become impossible.

I agree, that it is some form of split, or Green-style meltdown, with a number jumping ship to Independence, as it happens.

The only thing that is saving Labour at the moment is the weak performance of the rest of the left. In fairness to them, their forces are very small, but they have not used them well, or they would have gained far more ground by now.

goatstoe
01-01-2013, 01:53 PM
As Fine Gael will move to the right, given that austerity will be unacceptable to much of the population, Gilmore and others will stick with them, but the strains in the Labour will become impossible.

I agree, that it is some form of split, or Green-style meltdown, with a number jumping ship to Independence, as it happens.

The only thing that is saving Labour at the moment is the weak performance of the rest of the left. In fairness to them, their forces are very small, but they have not used them well, or they would have gained far more ground by now.

This is where SF can make hay. But they have to modernise themselves, get rid of old ties and old leadership, and basically re-invent themselves and position themselves on the centre to soft left/liberal space Lab had. I'm not sure they can do all that in a short space of time. As I see it, this leaves the door open for FF to come back. Indos will pick up seats too.

C. Flower
01-01-2013, 02:08 PM
This is where SF can make hay. But they have to modernise themselves, get rid of old ties and old leadership, and basically re-invent themselves and position themselves on the centre to soft left/liberal space Lab had. I'm not sure they can do all that in a short space of time. As I see it, this leaves the door open for FF to come back. Indos will pick up seats too.

Problem is that the left-liberal space really doesn't have any practical response to the country being bankrupt.

EMUII
01-01-2013, 02:19 PM
Far from choosing her time she was left with no alternative.

By the time she resigned she had burned all her political capital. Her antics over the confidence motion had damaged her beyond repair. She no longer had the capacity to persuade or coerce to achieve her aims so remaining in office would have been one long humiliation.




Don't forget that 'all the rest' included Shortall. Despite the speech attacking Reilly, she went on to vote confidence in him. That was cynical and hypocritical.

What's amazing about the whole business is how politically inept Shortall was shown to be. Even the most raw green councillor would understand that if a junior minister decides to go public with a 'him or me' attack on her senior she should pack her bag because the battle can't be won.

Had Gilmore and Gump forced Reilly to roll-over it would have had two immediate consequences. First FG would have had to even the score by doing the same to a Lab minister and second, a bar would have been set for every other junior to measure up to. Politically and constitutionally that couldn't be allowed.

If you think the way Shortall has handled this issue was politically inept I don't know what else I can say to that....

My opinion, as I have stated, is that she has handled and timed everything perfectly. I get the feeling by the way you speak about her that you have an issue with her. As I've said, I've no personal axe to grind with her. I'm just commenting on events and giving my opinion.

Both parties of the coalition made plenty of the need for New Politics and how the Old Politics had failed the country.... how's that going for them ? Shortall is one of the few with their finger in the air capturing the mood of the people. She has received massive support from the public and from within her own party.... have you not seen that or are you ignoring it ?

Shaadi
01-01-2013, 02:48 PM
This is where SF can make hay. But they have to modernise themselves, get rid of old ties and old leadership, and basically re-invent themselves and position themselves on the centre to soft left/liberal space Lab had. I'm not sure they can do all that in a short space of time. As I see it, this leaves the door open for FF to come back. Indos will pick up seats too.I don't think we need another heap of pseudo-lefties in the Daily. We need real Republicans, ie people who want to smash the cozy consensus, a party to tackle the Golden Circle and PS-Semi State privilege.

We're unlikely to get it, but we'll never get it if we turn to SDLP/LIBERAL/LABOUR stlye parties, good for civil rights legislation but that's about it. Chocolate teapots one and all when it comes to the important economic stuff.

goatstoe
01-01-2013, 02:53 PM
Problem is that the left-liberal space really doesn't have any practical response to the country being bankrupt.


A lot of people realise - in the absence of a revolution against the capatalist system - that Ireland as part of the EU have to hope that the EU and the worldwide economic situation sorts itself out over time and that this will eventually relieve Ireland's economic depression. It'd be much better to have more control over our affairs, but that's not likely to happen any time soon.

What people can and do expect is that the government here will implement changes that they have control over, changes in the way that politics operates in this country for example that the current government promised. If FG/Lab even delivered on that, they'd probably maintain power. That and that the cuts should be seen to be fair and weighted on the wealthiest parts of society.

The governments arrogance and failure to achieve even those meagre changes and tasks - means despite the opposition being incoherent - they will end up blowing it for themselves and lose power/office. Lab are definitely screwed.

goatstoe
01-01-2013, 02:56 PM
I don't think we need another heap of pseudo-lefties in the Daily. We need real Republicans, ie people who want to smash the cozy consensus, a party to tackle the Golden Circle and PS-Semi State privilege.

We're unlikely to get it, but we'll never get it if we turn to SDLP/LIBERAL/LABOUR stlye parties, good for civil rights legislation but that's about it. Chocolate teapots one and all when it comes to the important economic stuff.

We do need Republicans - in the real sense of the word - but like you I don't see that emerging yet.

EMUII
01-01-2013, 02:56 PM
I don't think we need another heap of pseudo-lefties in the Daily. We need real Republicans, ie people who want to smash the cozy consensus, a party to tackle the Golden Circle and PS-Semi State privilege.

We're unlikely to get it, but we'll never get it if we turn to SDLP/LIBERAL/LABOUR stlye parties, good for civil rights legislation but that's about it. Chocolate teapots one and all when it comes to the important economic stuff.

100%

SF should keep on the track they are on. They seem to be improving all the time and I'm sure they have exit strategies for the old guard which will increase their vote if timed correctly. They really need to gather decent potential candidates as a matter of urgency though....

Look what has happened to Labour after listening to market research types....

disability student
01-01-2013, 03:13 PM
I don't think we need another heap of pseudo-lefties in the Daily. We need real Republicans, ie people who want to smash the cozy consensus, a party to tackle the Golden Circle and PS-Semi State privilege.

We're unlikely to get it, but we'll never get it if we turn to SDLP/LIBERAL/LABOUR stlye parties, good for civil rights legislation but that's about it. Chocolate teapots one and all when it comes to the important economic stuff.

+100 that's what we need it now or an alternative brand new party to take away FG/FF/Lab.


Time is critical now as it would enable to build a momentum for potential new party for the next GE.

ULA has become a laughing stock with too many chiefs fighting etc and discredited now. No longer a force as it's for everyone for themselves with no proper direction in politics.:eek:

C. Flower
01-01-2013, 03:25 PM
A lot of people realise - in the absence of a revolution against the capatalist system - that Ireland as part of the EU have to hope that the EU and the worldwide economic situation sorts itself out over time and that this will eventually relieve Ireland's economic depression. It'd be much better to have more control over our affairs, but that's not likely to happen any time soon.

What people can and do expect is that the government here will implement changes that they have control over, changes in the way that politics operates in this country for example that the current government promised. If FG/Lab even delivered on that, they'd probably maintain power. That and that the cuts should be seen to be fair and weighted on the wealthiest parts of society.

The governments arrogance and failure to achieve even those meagre changes and tasks - means despite the opposition being incoherent - they will end up blowing it for themselves and lose power/office. Lab are definitely screwed.

In the last week, one of the British politicians pointed out the unthinkable - that there has been a seismic global shift of manufacture and wealth production to the East, and that one can't eat an historic sense of entitlement.

If it was only that shift, it could be dealt with perhaps over a few decades as incomes would tend to equalise and people could organise in TUs and get decent wages. The real stopper to it is that world productive capacity, based on globalisation, technology, and exploitation of carbon fuels, has grown to a degree at which profits are depressed and hundreds of millions of people are unemployed. For corporations, wage cutting is easy in these conditions and appears to be a solution, although of course it is a race to the bottom.

We need new solutions, with far more rational production and an equal stake in the benefits of it, rather than a scene of oligarchs and serfs.

Cato
01-01-2013, 03:29 PM
100%

SF should keep on the track they are on. They seem to be improving all the time and I'm sure they have exit strategies for the old guard which will increase their vote if timed correctly. They really need to gather decent potential candidates as a matter of urgency though....

Look what has happened to Labour after listening to market research types....

Indeed. Labour has been led down a sorry path by the likes of Mark Garret and David Leech - opinion polls and marketing research are seen by them as far more important in policy formation than anything as unsophisticated as values or vision. Sadly, Gilmore and Rabbitte before him are entirely given to this view. Leech believes that Labour should ditch the working class and case FG's AB base. Contrary to popular belief, the current leadership are hostile to the union link with Labour and want to break the link (one of the reasons that they are so hostile to Keaveney).

SF should certainly avoid this path.

Greengoddess
01-01-2013, 03:55 PM
Indeed. Labour has been led down a sorry path by the likes of Mark Garret and David Leech - opinion polls and marketing research are seen by them as far more important in policy formation than anything as unsophisticated as values or vision. Sadly, Gilmore and Rabbitte before him are entirely given to this view. Leech believes that Labour should ditch the working class and case FG's AB base. Contrary to popular belief, the current leadership are hostile to the union link with Labour and want to break the link (one of the reasons that they are so hostile to Keaveney).

SF should certainly avoid this path.
All the above is true. The PLP have been told this by pollsters. That " the SF vote is lost" that professional classes and women are the new vote and there are lots who would vote Labour " but they want a reason to". The last may well be true but we'd want to provide a reason PDQ. I if d the first thesis quite shocking. However, any SF people who feeling gleeful, should not assume that this is the way everyone feels.
The influence of G andL is undeniable, it would be important to point out that they are allowed to,have that influence.

Dr. FIVE
01-01-2013, 04:09 PM
Sorry where are these real republicans?

C. Flower
01-01-2013, 04:15 PM
Indeed. Labour has been led down a sorry path by the likes of Mark Garret and David Leech - opinion polls and marketing research are seen by them as far more important in policy formation than anything as unsophisticated as values or vision. Sadly, Gilmore and Rabbitte before him are entirely given to this view. Leech believes that Labour should ditch the working class and case FG's AB base. Contrary to popular belief, the current leadership are hostile to the union link with Labour and want to break the link (one of the reasons that they are so hostile to Keaveney).

SF should certainly avoid this path.

The Labour leadership is trying to follow the British New Labour approach of severance from the Unions and orientation to the middle class. It tied in neatly in the U.K. with Thatcherite deindustrialisation and a shift to dependency on global finance.

Unfortunately for Irish Labour, they have the timing all wrong. The globalised finance system is trashed, and the middle class is getting squeezed out of existence.

EMUII
01-01-2013, 04:33 PM
Indeed. Labour has been led down a sorry path by the likes of Mark Garret and David Leech - opinion polls and marketing research are seen by them as far more important in policy formation than anything as unsophisticated as values or vision. Sadly, Gilmore and Rabbitte before him are entirely given to this view. Leech believes that Labour should ditch the working class and case FG's AB base. Contrary to popular belief, the current leadership are hostile to the union link with Labour and want to break the link (one of the reasons that they are so hostile to Keaveney).

SF should certainly avoid this path.

I don't know much about the Irish Labour party but someone should point out to those two what market research and focus groups did to Labour in the UK. Short term Government glory at the expense of the soul of the party.... they will be a long time in opposition as they try to rebuild.

It would be a shame for the Labour party here to make the same mistakes....

EDIT: Just seen your post C.Flower.... similar sentiment.

Shaadi
01-01-2013, 05:04 PM
All the above is true. The PLP have been told this by pollsters. That " the SF vote is lost" that professional classes and women are the new vote and there are lots who would vote Labour " but they want a reason to". The last may well be true but we'd want to provide a reason PDQ. I if d the first thesis quite shocking. However, any SF people who feeling gleeful, should not assume that this is the way everyone feels.
The influence of G andL is undeniable, it would be important to point out that they are allowed to,have that influence.Labour and SF should be working together ( together they're a bigger political block in the opinion polls than either FG or FF ) and transferring to each other. All the bitching and sniping at each other only weakens the progressive boat. I usually transfer to Labour, but the direction they were heading in before GE 2011 was painfully obvious and a vote for them was just a vote for inefficiency and duplicity. Once Labour cops on, I will transfer to them again.

PS, not a shinner but a fellow traveller.


Sorry where are these real republicans?We could argue about that until the cows come home. Anybody who subscribes to the liberty, equality and fraternity concepts. The important things for me are equality before the law, legal reform to reduce the smokescreens that protect the privileged and supporting those that strive for a meritocracy whether they be left, right or centre.

We can only vote for what's put in front of us, and reject them when they don't come up to scratch.

C. Flower
01-01-2013, 05:08 PM
Labour and SF should be working together ( together they're a bigger political block in the opinion polls than either FG or FF ) and transferring to each other. All the bitching and sniping at each other only weakens the progressive boat. I usually transfer to Labour, but the direction they were heading in before GE 2011 was painfully obvious and a vote for them was just a vote for inefficiency and duplicity. Once Labour cops on, I will transfer to them again.

PS, not a shinner but a fellow traveller.

We could argue about that until the cows come home. Anybody who subscribes to the liberty, equality and fraternity concepts. The important things for me are equality before the law, legal reform to reduce the smokescreens that protect the privileged and suppporting those that strive for a meritocracy whether they be left, right or centre.

We can only vote for what's put in front of us, and reject them when they don't come up to scratch.

Wouldn't Fine Gael/Labour claim to do all that ?

Shaadi
01-01-2013, 05:18 PM
Wouldn't Fine Gael/Labour claim to do all that ?
Where's the Beef?

C. Flower
01-01-2013, 05:21 PM
Where's the Beef?

On the hoof ? :confused:

But seriously, SF does have an opportunity in the North to show a bit of mettle in Government.

And there is no point in saying they have no money. They would have no money here, either.

Shaadi
01-01-2013, 05:46 PM
On the hoof ? :confused:

But seriously, SF does have an opportunity in the North to show a bit of mettle in Government.

And there is no point in saying they have no money. They would have no money here, either.Walter Mondale.:-)

The way I look at it, you can only work with the tools you have. The north is a basket-case, and SF is filling a much more centrist political position up there than it needs to down here.

To achieve their UI goals they need to make the Republic equally or more attractive to live in than the UK. So we'll see what they're made of when they get into power in the South. In the mean time their rise will put the rest on notice to up their game or get passed out. They remain the only mainstream party in the south who aren't in bed with the Irish Establishment. Give me a Joe Higgins, a Ming or anyone else outside of the cartel that's running the show and I'll vote for them just as quickly.

Baron von Biffo
01-01-2013, 07:58 PM
Where would there be a constitutional impediment to removing Reilly? Reilly's performance has been sub standard, he could have been removed for that reason alone, but he knows that Enda Kenny owes him for when he backed him in the botched heave before he became Taoiseach.

The constitution is clear that the Taoiseach chooses the members of cabinet. Allowing junior ministers to have a veto on that would be unconstitutional.


The result is that the people are left with politics continuing as it did before where people who are unfit for certain roles and are also found to be incompetent are just left in situe. The same old politics, no difference whatsoever between the way this FG/Lab govt operate as opposed to the way FF used to operate. So FF could easily be back leading the next government, because FG/Lab are sewing the seeds of their own destruction. They are failing spectacularly to show that they are any different than FF lead governments in every way. If SF can get their act together, they have a real opportunity to get themselves into govt. next time out. Lab will have to tear themselves apart and start again.

30th Dail - FF/FG/Lab/SF - 153 seats
31st Dail - FG/Lab/FF/SF - 147 seats

We have politics continuing the same as it did before because that's what we voted for.

goatstoe
01-01-2013, 08:20 PM
The constitution is clear that the Taoiseach chooses the members of cabinet. Allowing junior ministers to have a veto on that would be unconstitutional.

If Reilly was sacked it'd be down to his own poor performance, not because of some phantom junior minister veto. He won't be 'cos Kenny owes him. You really have it in for Shorthall, don't ya.




30th Dail - FF/FG/Lab/SF - 153 seats
31st Dail - FG/Lab/FF/SF - 147 seats

We have politics continuing the same as it did before because that's what we voted for.

FG won a large number of seats and have a huge majority with Lab because they mainly convinced disaffected FF voters that they would bring in a new style of politics, and get rid of the gombeenism and sharp practise that FF became famous for. This is something they could have achieved and followed through on, but they have failed, utterly failed to achieve that. My point was that they wont keep the new votes they got last time out, they are just as likely to go back to FF or go elsewhere, because they have done nothing to keep them.

Baron von Biffo
01-01-2013, 08:20 PM
If you think the way Shortall has handled this issue was politically inept I don't know what else I can say to that....

My opinion, as I have stated, is that she has handled and timed everything perfectly. I get the feeling by the way you speak about her that you have an issue with her. As I've said, I've no personal axe to grind with her. I'm just commenting on events and giving my opinion.

Both parties of the coalition made plenty of the need for New Politics and how the Old Politics had failed the country.... how's that going for them ? Shortall is one of the few with their finger in the air capturing the mood of the people. She has received massive support from the public and from within her own party.... have you not seen that or are you ignoring it ?

I have no personal issue with either Shortall or Keaveney, in fact I've never met or had any contact with either. It pain me though to see the public support both can muster for what, to my mind, is transparent cynicism and hypocrisy.

Baron von Biffo
01-01-2013, 08:23 PM
100%

SF should keep on the track they are on. They seem to be improving all the time and I'm sure they have exit strategies for the old guard which will increase their vote if timed correctly. They really need to gather decent potential candidates as a matter of urgency though....

Look what has happened to Labour after listening to market research types....

SF is doing in the North what it's criticising in the South. If you expect change from them you're in for a sore disappointment.

EMUII
01-01-2013, 08:30 PM
SF is doing in the North what it's criticising in the South. If you expect change from them you're in for a sore disappointment.

Sorry, but that was a reply to someone else's post. Where did I say I expected change ?

It was an observation on SF after other posters posted similar observations. You don't happen to be on another Irish political forum from time to time? You certainly have a posting style that'd fit in quite well there....

Baron von Biffo
01-01-2013, 08:33 PM
Sorry, but that was a reply to someone else's post. Where did I say I expected change ?

It was an observation on SF after other posters posted similar observations. You don't happen to be on another Irish political forum from time to time? You certainly have a posting style that'd fit in quite well there....

I just post on PW.

Baron von Biffo
01-01-2013, 08:37 PM
All the above is true. The PLP have been told this by pollsters. That " the SF vote is lost" that professional classes and women are the new vote and there are lots who would vote Labour " but they want a reason to". The last may well be true but we'd want to provide a reason PDQ. I if d the first thesis quite shocking. However, any SF people who feeling gleeful, should not assume that this is the way everyone feels.
The influence of G andL is undeniable, it would be important to point out that they are allowed to,have that influence.

No votes, no seats, no influence.

If you've lost a chunk of your vote to SF and perhaps FF then you can either adapt or be as pure but irrelevant as Joe Higgins.

EMUII
01-01-2013, 08:38 PM
I have no personal issue with either Shortall or Keaveney, in fact I've never met or had any contact with either. It pain me though to see the public support both can muster for what, to my mind, is transparent cynicism and hypocrisy.

So it seems.... but, not to too many others though. As I've pointed out before she has received massive public support and support from within her own party.

Back to the op.

There definitely seems to be a gathering of numbers. It will be interesting to see where the legal aspect of the Keaveney issue ends up. I think the Labour leadership (current) are shooting themselves in both feet with that move.... it cannot end well and will most likely split the party even further, leading to their own demise.

Baron von Biffo
01-01-2013, 08:46 PM
So it seems.... but, not to too many others though. As I've pointed out before she has received massive public support and support from within her own party.

Being in the minority doesn't automatically mean one is in the wrong. I often recommend Ibsen's An enemy of the People (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Ibsen-Plays-Dolls-House-Enemy-People-Hedda-Gabler-v2-Henrik-Ibsen/9780413463401) as an excellent read for anyone interested in the dangers that democrats should be aware of.


Back to the op.

There definitely seems to be a gathering of numbers. It will be interesting to see where the legal aspect of the Keaveney issue ends up. I think the Labour leadership (current) are shooting themselves in both feet with that move.... it cannot end well and will most likely split the party even further, leading to their own demise.

I suspect that Keaveney is desperately hoping that Gilmore will be able to oust him. Losing the whip will be of little use at the next GE if he's still running on a Lab ticket and he can't really back down now and do the honourable thing.

Being 'forced' out would give him the much coveted martyr status that impresses people who don't think too deeply about these things.

C. Flower
01-01-2013, 09:16 PM
Being in the minority doesn't automatically mean one is in the wrong. I often recommend Ibsen's An enemy of the People (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Ibsen-Plays-Dolls-House-Enemy-People-Hedda-Gabler-v2-Henrik-Ibsen/9780413463401) as an excellent read for anyone interested in the dangers that democrats should be aware of.

I suspect that Keaveney is desperately hoping that Gilmore will be able to oust him. Losing the whip will be of little use at the next GE if he's still running on a Lab ticket and he can't really back down now and do the honourable thing.

Being 'forced' out would give him the much coveted martyr status that impresses people who don't think too deeply about these things.

There is a theory that Keaveney is an advance guard for Burton.

Shaadi
01-01-2013, 09:17 PM
Being in the minority doesn't automatically mean one is in the wrong. I often recommend Ibsen's An enemy of the People (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Ibsen-Plays-Dolls-House-Enemy-People-Hedda-Gabler-v2-Henrik-Ibsen/9780413463401) as an excellent read for anyone interested in the dangers that democrats should be aware of.



I suspect that Keaveney is desperately hoping that Gilmore will be able to oust him. Losing the whip will be of little use at the next GE if he's still running on a Lab ticket and he can't really back down now and do the honourable thing.

Being 'forced' out would give him the much coveted martyr status that impresses people who don't think too deeply about these things.Politics is a numbers game. The electorate made the mistake of giving this Government too big of a mandate, they must now live with the consequences of their actions. Keaveny slime-bag or saint will hopefully be staying on the opposition benches. There he'll be free to oppose the centre-right agenda that he as a Labour TD should have been opposing in the first place.

Voting should be about using your vote to maximum advantage. Blind loyalty and romantic notions of politicians as Utopian heroes are just playing into the hands of the establishment. Vote and vote ugly but smart is the best use of that hard won right.

Are you happy with the traditional FF/FG/LAB musical chairs game? Or do you vote otherwise?

Baron von Biffo
01-01-2013, 10:15 PM
There is a theory that Keaveney is an advance guard for Burton.

With her knowledge and consent? I'd be surprised.

Him being a culchie and worse, a man makes him an unlikely choice of stalking horse for Burton.

That aside, the big question is, with her ego would she want to lead Lab into the inevitable kicking it's going to get at the next GE?

Baron von Biffo
01-01-2013, 10:17 PM
Politics is a numbers game. The electorate made the mistake of giving this Government too big of a mandate, they must now live with the consequences of their actions. Keaveny slime-bag or saint will hopefully be staying on the opposition benches. There he'll be free to oppose the centre-right agenda that he as a Labour TD should have been opposing in the first place.

Voting should be about using your vote to maximum advantage. Blind loyalty and romantic notions of politicians as Utopian heroes are just playing into the hands of the establishment. Vote and vote ugly but smart is the best use of that hard won right.

Unfortunately though, we don't vote smart. The last GE is ample proof of that. We voted to punish FF rather than choose how we wanted to be governed for the following 5 years and you can't get more cretinous than that.


Are you happy with the traditional FF/FG/LAB musical chairs game? Or do you vote otherwise?

With one exception my vote has always been a 'least worst' choice.

Dr. FIVE
01-01-2013, 10:19 PM
Him being a culchie and worse, a man makes him an unlikely choice of stalking horse for Burton.

wha?

Baron von Biffo
01-01-2013, 10:23 PM
wha?

I had minor dealings with Burton during her junior ministerial incarnation and learned that her world view ended around the M50. If I didn't know better I'd have thought the strongest drug one could get outside Dublin was an asprin. <Mod>

Dr. FIVE
01-01-2013, 10:43 PM
hmmm

Shaadi
01-01-2013, 10:44 PM
Unfortunately though, we don't vote smart. The last GE is ample proof of that. We voted to punish FF rather than choose how we wanted to be governed for the following 5 years and you can't get more cretinous [than that.

The people voted exactly as they wanted to, far from being stupid, they voted for more of the same because they just love the status-quo. They revel in the chicanery, love the deceit, the cute-hoorism and the only problem they had with the Tiger was its demise.



With one exception my vote has always been a 'least worst' choice.
A natural FF/Labour voter. :)

ang
01-01-2013, 10:51 PM
*Dips toes in water* Personally I am to say the least disappointed in the selection of candidates on my ballot paper.

Simonsays
01-01-2013, 11:00 PM
I had minor dealings with Burton during her junior ministerial incarnation and learned that her world view ended around the M50. If I didn't know better I'd have thought the strongest drug one could get outside Dublin was an asprin. <Mod>

She is certainly difficult in the extreme to work with. She makes a lot of enemies.

Greengoddess
01-01-2013, 11:03 PM
I had minor dealings with Burton during her junior ministerial incarnation and learned that her world view ended around the M50. If I didn't know better I'd have thought the strongest drug one could get outside Dublin was an asprin. <Mod>

��Who exactly DO you think should lead Labour? Someone who isn't a " culchie " or a woman perhaps.

Shaadi
01-01-2013, 11:06 PM
*Dips toes in water* Personally I am to say the least disappointed in the selection of candidates on my ballot paper.What selection have you got? I'm in Longford-Westmeath, I had a young shinner, Willie FF lite from Labour and an ex PD Labour candidate. A few assorted FF/FG hopefulls including Mammy and an ex FFer Independent and probably a few crazies.

ang
01-01-2013, 11:37 PM
What selection have you got? I'm in Longford-Westmeath, I had a young shinner, Willie FF lite from Labour and an ex PD Labour candidate. A few assorted FF/FG hopefulls including Mammy and an ex FFer Independent and probably a few crazies.

FG/FF/Lab and a few non committal Independents. Limerick Constituency.

Shaadi
01-01-2013, 11:51 PM
FG/FF/Lab and a few non committal Independents. Limerick Constituency.That's a pretty lousy choice alright, I'd just give the least objectionable Independents a vote to show that your vote is there for the taking.

Apjp
02-01-2013, 02:22 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2013/0102/1224328328943.html Eamo says we'll be out of strife by December. Best cancel the plane tickets so.

EMUII
02-01-2013, 11:55 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2013/0102/1224328328943.html Eamo says we'll be out of strife by December. Best cancel the plane tickets so.

Odd.... I seem to remember him saying it will take this term and maybe more to get the Country back on track. They must be doing better than they thought :rolleyes:

Or maybe he's coming out fighting with his advisors holding the bucket and sponge.... and the towels.

C. Flower
02-01-2013, 12:59 PM
Odd.... I seem to remember him saying it will take this term and maybe more to get the Country back on track. They must be doing better than they thought :rolleyes:

Or maybe he's coming out fighting with his advisors holding the bucket and sponge.... and the towels.

It would suggest that he is worried about an imminent split/heave and is trying to steady the troops.

The fact that it is a blatant lie does not seem to bother him.

EMUII
02-01-2013, 01:10 PM
It would suggest that he is worried about an imminent split/heave and is trying to steady the troops.

The fact that it is a blatant lie does not seem to bother him.

Indeed.

You would think those expensive advisors/spinners could come up with something better than this though.... it's ridiculous. There's more chance of it getting a laugh than steadying troops.

Just goes to show though.... it proves he and his advisors see the threat to his leadership as real and imminent if he's at this. If this is all he can muster to try to bring people with him, he may step down now.

Shaadi
02-01-2013, 01:42 PM
Indeed.

You would think those expensive advisors/spinners could come up with something better than this though.... it's ridiculous. There's more chance of it getting a laugh than steadying troopt.

Just goes to show though.... it proves he and his advisors see the threat to his leadership as real and imminent if he's at this. If this is all he can muster to try to bring people with him, he may step down now.It's possible that this Govt are somehow believing their own bull.

Growth has been way behind the projections the "bailout" and adjustments necessary to steady the ship were based on. The break we'd need to magic the upcoming pain away would be beyond the beyonds. So WTF is going on? We're supposedly going to be returning to the markets. What interest rates will be paying, will it be a legitimate return or will it be a game of deception?

Sam Lord
02-01-2013, 01:49 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2013/0102/1224328328943.html Eamo says we'll be out of strife by December. Best cancel the plane tickets so.

This is not a serious view. It is propaganda of a desperate kind aimed at Labour Party members. The king wants to keep his crown.

Greengoddess
02-01-2013, 02:14 PM
It's possible that this Govt are somehow believing their own bull.

Growth has been way behind the projections the "bailout" and adjustments necessary to steady the ship were based on. The break we'd need to magic the upcoming pain away would be beyond the beyonds. So WTF is going on? We're supposedly going to be returning to the markets. What interest rates will be paying, will it be a legitimate return or will it be a game of deception?

Both

Shaadi
02-01-2013, 02:45 PM
Both"Bailout 2" by the Backdoor, with the puppet-masters hand concealed. They'd just love that and so would the public, but there's no such thing as free money and we can't afford the debt we already have. Somebody's going to pay for it and the bill and subsequent loss of sovereignty will be ugly:(.

RahenyFG II
02-01-2013, 06:05 PM
Read in the Daily Mail today about a possible heave against Gilmore. I can't see it happening and I can't see the radical Labour left even getting the leadership. No doubt if it was Keaveney or Shortall that got the leadership it would automatically end the government and call a snap election which wouldn't suit Labour.

Joan Bruton was mentioned a possible replacement to Gilmore if he was ousted but she'd be the exact same. She's not radical left. Also she's too old. She's 64 soon.

Richardbouvet
02-01-2013, 06:20 PM
Gilmore has snootily dismissed the labour dissidents as people who are not prepared to take the tough decisions of government. That sort of attitude is not going to help his standing among the party rank and file.

jmcc
02-01-2013, 07:06 PM
Gilmore has snootily dismissed the labour dissidents as people who are not prepared to take the tough decisions of government. That sort of attitude is not going to help his standing among the party rank and file.Tough decisions? Every time I read some low-life politician using that phrase, it is hard not to think of them as over-paid parasites who will never freeze, never go hungry or never have to worry about anyone in their families getting sick. The best thing for the new year is if one of these parasites used the phrase on television and the interviewer thumped them and then said it was a tough decision.

Regards...jmcc

homer
03-01-2013, 09:48 AM
Tough decisions? Every time I read some low-life politician using that phrase, it is hard not to think of them as over-paid parasites who will never freeze, never go hungry or never have to worry about anyone in their families getting sick. The best thing for the new year is if one of these parasites used the phrase on television and the interviewer thumped them and then said it was a tough decision.

Regards...jmcc


Agreed. Very hard to listen to "tough decision" talk from people who in terms of pay, conditions, and pensions are sheltered from the real world

simonj
04-01-2013, 10:15 PM
This has been running since March, Heave or get off the pot!!
Seriously, with the old guard ensconced in ministries, it will be hard.

I dont think Gilmore would survive a real challenge, but someone has to provide a realistic leadership challenge

DCon
08-01-2013, 08:23 AM
Gilmore says it is OK to break promises as long as a pledge is honoured


After breaking a series of Labour's pre-election promises in the Budget, Mr Gil-more also defended his party's record.

"The big pledge that we made was we were going to solve the economic crisis," he said.

Mr Gilmore is frosty about the prospect of a return of Labour dissidents to the parliamentary party, saying he does "insist on discipline".

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gilmore-vows-ill-face-down-the-labour-dissidents-3346439.html

C. Flower
08-01-2013, 10:06 AM
Gilmore says it is OK to break promises as long as a pledge is honoured

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gilmore-vows-ill-face-down-the-labour-dissidents-3346439.html

There will be a few weeks of people clinging to the hope that Gilmore is right about the economy. Then the bills will come in, unemployment will again go up, and in all probability, the promissory note will be paid.

DCon
17-01-2013, 11:28 PM
Joan leading the charge of the Light Brigade according to tomorrow's Star

Latter half of this year. Will gilmore will have his full pension by then?

C. Flower
18-01-2013, 12:02 AM
Joan leading the charge of the Light Brigade according to tomorrow's Star

Latter half of this year. Will gilmore will have his full pension by then?

Has she actually set a date for six months time ? Is this so he can have his full run of EU Presidency junkets undisturbed ?

jmcc
18-01-2013, 12:04 AM
Has she actually set a date for six months time ? Is this so he can have his full run of EU Presidency junkets undisturbed ?Probably why she may never get a chance to lead the Labour party. She's yesterday's news. The real threat will come from the younger backbenchers who are going to be decimated while the pension tourists are gone.

Regards...jmcc

PaddyJoe
18-01-2013, 12:06 AM
Interesting that Regina Doherty pulled out of the VinB programme at short notice tonight. Wouldn't have fancied getting ambushed on Labour party infighting.

DCon
18-01-2013, 12:06 AM
Has she actually set a date for six months time ? Is this so he can have his full run of EU Presidency junkets undisturbed ?

If true, I assume the delay is related to the EU Presidency and full Ministerial pension accrual (assuming she would not require his talents in her new Labour Cabinet contingent.

Very civilised heave, if true

PaddyJoe
18-01-2013, 12:08 AM
There was supposed to be a cabinet reshuffle in the autumn. Enda knocked that on the head this week as well.

Greengoddess
18-01-2013, 09:02 PM
I didn't see the Star today .

http://www.newstalk.ie/Howlin-denies-party-instability-amid-leadership-heave-claims

Dr. FIVE
18-01-2013, 09:10 PM
worth catching vincent browne last night if you missed it GG

Simonsays
18-01-2013, 09:55 PM
Either those planning the heave are dumb as hell or else there is no heave.

No-one plotting a heave would leak it nearly half a year in advance and give the person they are targeting six months to counter-plot. It reminds me of a heave against Haughey where the idiots planning it leaked the name of the people supporting it to Bruce Arnold in the Indo. He published the names. All Haughey then had to do was pick off the weak ones or the easily bullied ones to ensure it failed - and it did.

The idea of anyone telling Catherine half a year about a heave is nuts. To succeed it would need to help top secret until 48 hours before it happened. So either someone was telling a whopper to Catherine, or those behind it haven't a clue what they are doing and are incompetent.

PaddyJoe
18-01-2013, 09:58 PM
I didn't see the Star today .

http://www.newstalk.ie/Howlin-denies-party-instability-amid-leadership-heave-claims

Voila:

Labour leader Eamon Gilmore is facing a leadership challenge later this year as backbenchers position themselves to rebuild the battered party, The Star has learned.

Social Protection Minister Joan Burton is the most likely candidate to topple the Tanaiste, as she is the most popular choice among her party colleagues


One source told The Star that the challenge will take place once Ireland’s presidency of the EU is over at the end of June, and that it will happen before the Budget at the end of the year.

http://www.thestar.ie/star/knives-are-out-for-eamon-gilmore/

Greengoddess
18-01-2013, 10:06 PM
Just listened to VB. TWO members of PLP? That's going to really worry Eamon Gilmore...

C. Flower
18-01-2013, 10:13 PM
Either those planning the heave are dumb as hell or else there is no heave.

No-one plotting a heave would leak it nearly half a year in advance and give the person they are targeting six months to counter-plot. It reminds me of a heave against Haughey where the idiots planning it leaked the name of the people supporting it to Bruce Arnold in the Indo. He published the names. All Haughey then had to do was pick off the weak ones or the easily bullied ones to ensure it failed - and it did.

The idea of anyone telling Catherine half a year about a heave is nuts. To succeed it would need to help top secret until 48 hours before it happened. So either someone was telling a whopper to Catherine, or those behind it haven't a clue what they are doing and are incompetent.

Looks more like a Gordon Brown style grumble than a heave. But the bottom up pressures on Labour must be becoming serious.

elric666
18-01-2013, 10:20 PM
.....

Dr. FIVE
18-01-2013, 10:31 PM
I don't think anyone has swung more away from the opposition Labour Party and more behind the government incarnation then Joan Burton. No one, and it was a stiff competition. Either codding yourself or being completely disingenuous to say you are unhappy with the direction of the party while favouring her to take over. You will get the cosmetic change with one (or both) eyes on election and (I assume) a shift in the power dynamic within the party but negligible change in direction. You will get another year or two cover, long enough to pull a smoke and mirrors upturn in the economy but the bulldozer will be driven through State & employment rights and the party pointing improved competitiveness at the next election is the same direction you're at now.

Greengoddess
18-01-2013, 10:31 PM
The Meath East bye election is rarely mentioned as a vulnerability but I think it could figure.

jmcc
18-01-2013, 11:04 PM
Just listened to VB. TWO members of PLP? That's going to really worry Eamon Gilmore...Well it is a start but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Stalinists engage in a bit of a purge as they try to hold on to power. The ones to watch are the younger backbenchers. They are the ones with the most to lose (seats) and the most to gain (power). Gilmore, Rabbitte et al losing ministerial pension entitlements won't matter to them. Howlin is obviously being rolled out to pretend that everything is rosy. Quinn may have already spoken to the Sunday newspapers about how Gilmore is such a great leader. There may also be some attempt to put some anti-Keaveney spin on things. For the sake of the Labour party, it would be best if the replacement was quick and soon. Having it drag out, especially if it is stretched out to June, will cause more damage.

Regards...jmcc

C. Flower
18-01-2013, 11:33 PM
It could look like this

Gilmore = Blair lite
Burton + Brown lite

Mick Tully
18-01-2013, 11:35 PM
Well it is a start but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Stalinists engage in a bit of a purge as they try to hold on to power. The ones to watch are the younger backbenchers. They are the ones with the most to lose (seats) and the most to gain (power). Gilmore, Rabbitte et al losing ministerial pension entitlements won't matter to them. Howlin is obviously being rolled out to pretend that everything is rosy. Quinn may have already spoken to the Sunday newspapers about how Gilmore is such a great leader. There may also be some attempt to put some anti-Keaveney spin on things. For the sake of the Labour party, it would be best if the replacement was quick and soon. Having it drag out, especially if it is stretched out to June, will cause more damage.

Regards...jmcc

Hopefully.

jmcc
18-01-2013, 11:36 PM
It could look like this

Gilmore = Blair lite
Burton + Brown liteTo give Blair his due, he was far more competent and effective than Gilmore could ever be. Burton is going to have some problems with guilt by association especially when the budget cuts really start to bite. This is why I think that if there is to be a move against Gilmore, it will come from an unexpected angle with at least a stalking horse candidate.

Regards...jmcc

PaddyJoe
19-01-2013, 12:09 AM
Eamon Gilmore on Mastermind:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93o3sMBgzz8&feature=youtu.be

PaddyJoe
28-03-2013, 10:30 PM
No cryptic Latin tweets from Colm so far.

Dojo
28-03-2013, 10:44 PM
Any more talk of the Moan and a potential heave against Gilmore?

ang
28-03-2013, 10:59 PM
Any more talk of the Moan and a potential heave against Gilmore?

Joan won't get a look in, damaged goods now.

There will be a heave and I'd say GE this year.

C. Flower
28-03-2013, 11:48 PM
Keaveney has tweeted "Enough" VB

PaddyJoe
28-03-2013, 11:56 PM
VB

Colm Keaveney T.D ‏@Colm_Keaveney (https://twitter.com/Colm_Keaveney)19m (https://twitter.com/Colm_Keaveney/status/317419873636581376)
ENOUGH #vinb (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23vinb&src=hash)

Listening to Fleming and Damian English does that to me as well:D

jmcc
29-03-2013, 01:57 AM
Well this is the "unexpected angle" for Gilmore. :)

Regards...jmcc

Shaadi
29-03-2013, 10:07 AM
The Meath East bye election is rarely mentioned as a vulnerability but I think it could figure.On the ball Greengoddess, time to split the party in two. Grab a lifeboat this suckers going down.

Greengoddess
29-03-2013, 02:52 PM
On the ball Greengoddess, time to split the party in two. Grab a lifeboat this suckers going down.

I'm not given to merely grabbing lifeboats. There will have to another boat, as it were. ��

Baron von Biffo
29-03-2013, 02:59 PM
I'm not given to merely grabbing lifeboats. There will have to another boat, as it were. ��

But who would take the helm?

C. Flower
29-03-2013, 03:51 PM
I'm not given to merely grabbing lifeboats. There will have to another boat, as it were. ��


Well there is this one ...http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c9/Asgard_Baltic_1910.JPG/626px-Asgard_Baltic_1910.JPG


Or this one.....


http://classconnection.s3.amazonaws.com/136/flashcards/505136/png/madusa1333054961967.png

Shaadi
29-03-2013, 03:51 PM
I'm not given to merely grabbing lifeboats. There will have to another boat, as it were. ��The CLP brand is there to be taken a step further. I'd certainly rather run under it than under the current Labour party banner.

TotalMayhem
29-03-2013, 05:38 PM
Labour is dead in the water and nothing will save them.


time to split the party in two.

As if that would help, those who leave a party when the going gets tough are stigmatized as rats who jumped ship when it went down.

By now it is fairly safe to say, the stage is set for a FF/FG coalition after the next GE and a splinter group of former Labour Party members will hardly make a difference.

Greengoddess
29-03-2013, 06:40 PM
Well there is this one ...http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c9/Asgard_Baltic_1910.JPG/626px-Asgard_Baltic_1910.JPG


Or this one.....


http://classconnection.s3.amazonaws.com/136/flashcards/505136/png/madusa1333054961967.png
Steady on, cf!

Greengoddess
29-03-2013, 06:41 PM
But who would take the helm?

There s that, of course. Any ideas?

fluffybiscuits
30-03-2013, 01:15 AM
Labour is dead in the water and nothing will save them.



As if that would help, those who leave a party when the going gets tough are stigmatized as rats who jumped ship when it went down.

By now it is fairly safe to say, the stage is set for a FF/FG coalition after the next GE and a splinter group of former Labour Party members will hardly make a difference.

If they really believed what they believe in then Keavney Shortall et all should nail their colours to a mast.

A new ULA style mast and go for the juggular.

DDI and FF/FG we are going to see a swing to the right, let the phoenix of left rise from the ashes.

Ceannaire
30-03-2013, 02:46 AM
The CLP brand is there to be taken a step further. I'd certainly rather run under it than under the current Labour party banner.


People speak about the prospect of "Continuity Labour", etc., fielding candidates, but this is the first time I've heard the CLP mentioned. To field its own candidates separate to Labour would be an admission of defeat for the movement, whose aim is to change Labour from within through bringing grassroots pressure to bear on the party leadership, not to oppose the party by breaking away.



There s that, of course. Any ideas?


Who is a viable candidate and who has the ambition are two different questions.


Burton has the leadership to lose, as party deputy leader and most popular minister (out of a very bad lot). However, she seems reluctant to run. I don't find the explanation that she's holding off until after the EU Presidency plausible. Leaving it to the local elections would be a wait, and she may look opportunistic waiting until after the inevitable bloodbath for not having put herself forward when she could have upped the game and saved some seats. She is still the most likely next leader though. Howlin still hasn't got the message after two defeats and still no doubt hankers after the leadership, but as the minister most closely identified with austerity is held in little affection and is not a likely leader. Shortall has run for the leadership before but an also-ran, but the ambition is probably still there. Her principled stance against the leadership has won her support amongst the grassroots, and the election is OMOV; however, she doesn't really tap into the traditional Labour mindset on the liberal social agenda many members hold so dear.


There is also a younger generation. Keaveney definitely wants it, but he has a limited support base, having won the chairmanship on a protest vote. A likely leader in the longer term rather than next time round. Then there is Aodhán Ó Riordáin. Although in his 30s, he's older than Dick Spring was when elected, and could well harbour the ambition. He may seem a long shot, but is close to the leadership and could be in the running if they decide to over-promote him to make him a viable candidate, but he certainly would not win in the short term. They may do the same with Derek Nolan, but he seems an even more remote possibility. The right-wing press used to talk up Seán Sherlock's chances, but if he harbours any ambition, it hasn't shown itself in his underwhelming work as junior minister, where he has made little effort to assert himself. He is both unlikely to run and unlikely to win. Finally, another junior minister Alan Kelly is said to harbour ambitions, but would be unlikely to win at this stage and lacks any obvious qualities that make him a likely long-term prospect. His seat is also particularly vulnerable, in the "bellweather" Tipp North constituency.

Shaadi
30-03-2013, 03:09 AM
People speak about the prospect of "Continuity Labour", etc., fielding candidates, but this is the first time I've heard the CLP mentioned. To field its own candidates separate to Labour would be an admission of defeat for the movement, whose aim is to change Labour from within through bringing grassroots pressure to bear on the party leadership, not to oppose the party by breaking away.



It has happened before and it worked itself out in the end.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Labour_Party_(Ireland)


Labour are good for 10% on a good day at the next GE, that will decimate their seat base but ensure survival. If they have a bad day at the next GE, and they will if they don't change tack, then single digit seat numbers await them. Any dissident worth their salt stands a better chance of retaining a seat outside of the party than within, such is the difference in respect for Labour values and for the current Labour party leadership.

Greengoddess
30-03-2013, 11:28 AM
It has happened before and it worked itself out in the end.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Labour_Party_(Ireland)


Labour are good for 10% on a good day at the next GE, that will decimate their seat base but ensure survival. If they have a bad day at the next GE, and they will if they don't change tack, then single digit seat numbers await them. Any dissident worth their salt stands a better chance of retaining a seat outside of the party than within, such is the difference in respect for Labour values and for the current Labour party leadership.
Change from within only happens with a disaster. It will now be necessary almost to cause such pressure that change occurs. This is not for the faint hearted, the use of hard power. Not listening to grassroots is the norm because they want to take thi gs away from the PLP. INMOP we have to leave gov. Not collude with abandoning whole sections of the population. All this rhetoric about communication won't work. Why? Because what we are.' communicating' is WRONG.
I, of course was one of those who didn't want to go in to gov.

TotalMayhem
30-03-2013, 11:30 AM
Labour are good for 10% on a good day at the next GE

You seem to forget, that their extraordinary result in 2011 was linked to the failure of the previous government rather than excellent work in opposition. They got 10% in 2007, a figure much more likely to represent their core voters, a great many of whom will not vote for Labour next time round. And no, it won't be a good day for the Labour Party at the next GE. ;)

Dr. FIVE
11-04-2013, 10:32 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0411/380964-burton-defends-labour-leadership/


Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton has strongly backed Labour Party leader Eamon Gilmore, insisting that he is doing a very strong job in projecting the image of Ireland overseas.

Speaking in Kerry, Ms Burton said Mr Gilmore had her support and that of the Labour Parliamentary Party in doing what was an important job.

She acknowledged that the Meath East by election had produced a disappointing result for Labour but maintained that the electorate had moved towards whoever had been perceived as the likely winner.

He's fecked so

jmcc
11-04-2013, 11:17 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0411/380964-burton-defends-labour-leadership/



He's fecked soYep. The famous "full confidence" knife in the back. He's doing great overseas but lousy here. :)

Regards...jmcc

Greengoddess
12-04-2013, 08:58 AM
Is that really what is going on? What else could she say. I'm not very good at these things even though I keep being asked!

C. Flower
12-04-2013, 09:04 AM
Is that really what is going on? What else could she say. I'm not very good at these things even though I keep being asked!

I was assuming that she went along with the big "Up and Coming Joan" feature in the Indo last weekend. But it is possible that she was not aware of how it would be presented.

Dr. FIVE
12-04-2013, 09:08 AM
I was suggesting more an endorsement from Joan Burton would hardly fill me with hope but yeah.

Greengoddess
12-04-2013, 10:56 AM
Why would anyone think a Minister who is about to cut more from social welfare should lead the Labour Party? Rescue fantasies.

Baron von Biffo
12-04-2013, 11:00 AM
Why would anyone think a Minister who is about to cut more from social welfare should lead the Labour Party? Rescue fantasies.

It was interesting during the week to hear David Cameron echoing Burton's opinion that living on benefits is a lifestyle choice.

Dr. FIVE
12-04-2013, 11:15 AM
indeed, played down class in wake of the referendum result too.

jmcc
12-04-2013, 11:40 AM
Why would anyone think a Minister who is about to cut more from social welfare should lead the Labour Party? Rescue fantasies.It will be interesting to see if Burton is presented as a Cruella DeVille type character in the media over the next few weeks. However popular she is with the Labour Party, that's not going to translate into votes. The actions of some of the younger members of Labour in the next few weeks should be interesting.

Regards...jmcc

C. Flower
12-04-2013, 12:35 PM
Why would anyone think a Minister who is about to cut more from social welfare should lead the Labour Party? Rescue fantasies.

Distant echoes from her moment of glory when she opposed the bank bailout more or less single handed.

And up until now, social welfare has been pretty well intact.

That is going to change, sadly.

DCon
22-09-2013, 09:49 AM
Eamo preparing for ambush



EAMON Gilmore has been put on high alert for a potential "ambush" by Joan Burton as speculation mounts that a dramatic leadership heave is on the cards.

When asked whether she would like him to lead the party into the elections, Ms Burton would only go as far as to say she "expects" him to do so.




Other party TDs say they are "desperate" for Ms Burton to publicly declare that she has no intention of challenging for the leadership.

"It's a f***ing circus between them," one deputy told the Herald.

"I wish they were both put in a room and told to cop on and sort out their differences for the sake of the party's future."





Meanwhile, Alan Kelly said yesterday he believed Labour will be "thanked" by the public for their role in government.

The minister for state at the Department of Transport told RTE's News At One: "It is difficult and we have to make difficult decisions. But in the long term we have to turn this country around and the Labour Party will be thanked."


http://www.herald.ie/news/gilmore-set-for-burton-ambush-as-labours-leadership-rift-deepens-29595501.html

Hilly Billy
22-09-2013, 10:48 AM
He should do the decent thing and remove [edited]

Andrew49
24-05-2014, 04:46 PM
Labour Senator for Sligo North Leitrim Susan O'Keeffe told Ocean FM Eamon Gilmore's leadership will be discussed by the party next week

Griska
24-05-2014, 05:46 PM
Arthur Spring was quite biting on Radio One but held back from calling for a heave.
Ruari Quinn then went on to say Gilmore was the best leader the Labour Party ever had.

RahenyFG II
24-05-2014, 06:04 PM
Well Burton bottled it when she asked on RTE an hour ago.

Donal Og
24-05-2014, 07:40 PM
I bet some are discussing it now! Is it me or does he look quite unwell too?

Frankie Lee
24-05-2014, 07:53 PM
It would be hilarious if they went for Burton. They are well out of touch with the public sending out Rabbitte to the media all morning, arrogance personified.

C. Flower
24-05-2014, 07:54 PM
Gilmore was up in Belfast yesterday, with Haass, yesterday getting reprogrammed and giving them the gen on the next election results.

PaddyJoe
26-05-2014, 01:50 PM
Underway.

Fiach Kelly ‏@fiachkelly (https://twitter.com/fiachkelly) 5m
(https://twitter.com/fiachkelly/status/470908266953056256)BREAKING: No confidendec motion in Gilmore at PLP
​Motion signed by Conway; Nash; O'Riodain; McNamara; Nolan; Spring; Hannigan and Senator John Gilroy

C. Flower
26-05-2014, 01:54 PM
It would be hilarious if they went for Burton. They are well out of touch with the public sending out Rabbitte to the media all morning, arrogance personified.

One Labour Councillor was quoted as saying that she could tell on the canvass if Rabitte had been on the radio as the public got measurably more furious.

C. Flower
26-05-2014, 01:55 PM
Underway.

They want the motion discussed Wednesday 28th at the Parliamentary Party meeting.

Gilmore is toast.

PaddyJoe
26-05-2014, 01:59 PM
They want the motion discussed Wednesday 28th at the Parliamentary Party meeting.

Gilmore is toast.
Likewise most of his front bench. Time for 'generational change' as Spring called it this morning on the SOR show.

DCon
26-05-2014, 02:00 PM
Motion of no confidence submitted

Ciara Conway, Ged Nash, Arthur Spring, John Gilroy, Derek Nolan,Dominic Hannigan, Michael Mcnamara and Aodhan O'Riordan are the signatories

Saoirse go Deo
26-05-2014, 02:06 PM
Motion of no confidence submitted

Ciara Conway, Ged Nash, Arthur Spring, John Gilroy, Derek Nolan,Dominic Hannigan, Michael Mcnamara and Aodhan O'Riordan are the signatories

The public have submitted a motion of no confidence in those cretins too.

Ged Nash is a particularly loathsome, dishonest insect. The whole lot of them should go, not just Gilmore.

Richardbouvet
26-05-2014, 02:15 PM
Im surprised at those particular names. Some like Nolan and O'Riordan would be considered Gilmoreites. If they have no confidence, G is toast.

DCon
26-05-2014, 02:39 PM
pretty damning


Senator John Whelan ‏@SenJohnWhelan
This is not just about Eamon Gilmore but his style&culture of leadership. I am tired of being bullied by his henchmen, censored&isolated

PaddyJoe
26-05-2014, 03:10 PM
And he's gone. Resigning at 4pm.

Dr. FIVE
26-05-2014, 03:16 PM
Lol

Kid Ryder
26-05-2014, 03:17 PM
And he's gone. Resigning at 4pm.

Just saw it on CLR and the twitterbox. Mad news if true. Ground shifting beneath feet, etc. Oireland Inc. is foundering in the snot-green sea, the scrotum-tightening sea...

Mowl
26-05-2014, 03:25 PM
The phrase gone for a Burton comes to mind.

Then goes away again.

PaddyJoe
26-05-2014, 03:30 PM
Ah now...no need for that.
;)

470933129881202688

goatstoe
26-05-2014, 03:30 PM
How long can this government last? I'll take a punt on a General Election early 2015 at the latest.

C. Flower
26-05-2014, 03:35 PM
Gilmore's resignation "in a few hours" has been announced on RTE Radio One.

DCon
26-05-2014, 03:36 PM
He had already decided to jump, allegedly


The Irish Times ‏@IrishTimes
Sources close to Mr Gilmore have told The @IrishTimes that he took the decision to resign before the no-confidence motion emerged.

C. Flower
26-05-2014, 03:36 PM
Likewise most of his front bench. Time for 'generational change' as Spring called it this morning on the SOR show.

How about a political change, in the direction of socialism ?

Time for an end to nepotism, too, as I might say to Spring.

disability student
26-05-2014, 03:38 PM
Sheer arrogance of Gilmore and Labour party speaks lot of volumes... rem Gilmore for Taoiseach eh!!!! It riled a lot of voters out there as it made Labour more hatred than before.

Now it would be FG's turn to receive more instead of Labour.:)

Labour are gone really as Greens have made a small comeback in the guise of Ryan.

Griska
26-05-2014, 03:39 PM
This thread was begun in March 2011.
Suppose it shows that good things come to those prepared to wait!

Griska
26-05-2014, 03:43 PM
How about a political change, in the direction of socialism ?

Time for an end to nepotism, too, as I might say to Spring.
A friend drove down to Roscommon at the weekend and said he lost count of the amount of posters of candidates related to sitting or former TDs. It's endemic in our politics.

Richardbouvet
26-05-2014, 03:46 PM
Endemic is right. Th Healy-Raes are up-front about it. Do I see a Coppinger dynasty in the offing?

Ogiol
26-05-2014, 03:47 PM
Senior LAB sources confirming he's gone > rté

Richardbouvet
26-05-2014, 03:50 PM
In any case, a change of leader will do no good if there is only a change of style and emphasis. It has to be much more than that.

PaddyJoe
26-05-2014, 03:50 PM
There's always the possibility that Gilmore could stay on as Tanaiste and a Minister I suppose. Can't see it though.

disability student
26-05-2014, 03:51 PM
Reshuffle on the cards with severance package for Gimmemore????

DCon
26-05-2014, 03:52 PM
Reshuffle on the cards with severance package for Gimmemore????

Like Shatter he is getting out (if he steps down as Minister) before the golden handshake removal is legislated for

TotalMayhem
26-05-2014, 03:55 PM
Taoiseach Enda has refused to comment on speculation that the Tánaiste is to resign.

Speaking at the Midlands North West count centre he said he had tried to call Mr Gilmore in the last few minutes but could not get through to him.

He said he did not wish to comment further until the Tánaiste made a statement.

Mr Kenny also said he intends to lead the Government to fulfil its full term of office.

Angela might have other plans for Enda. If she can't get Juncker for next President of the EU Commission, Kenny is rumoured to be an alternative.

Mowl
26-05-2014, 04:08 PM
Like Shatter he is getting out (if he steps down as Minister) before the golden handshake removal is legislated for

Hasn't Howlin signed it yet?

Hah hah! Looks like it was Frankfurt's way after all!

PaddyJoe
26-05-2014, 04:14 PM
Gilmore press conference underway and DriveTime is chatting to Catherine Murphy. WTF?
:(

Mowl
26-05-2014, 04:18 PM
Business as usual out on the ostrich farm at Montrose.

PaddyJoe
26-05-2014, 04:28 PM
Adiios...


http://i58.tinypic.com/2lb2r2r.jpg

Dr. FIVE
26-05-2014, 04:29 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bokka8cIgAEplX2.jpg

Andrew49
26-05-2014, 05:19 PM
Who said I don't like Mondays? Make this a Happy Monday by getting Nessa Childers to Europe.

C. Flower
26-05-2014, 05:28 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bokka8cIgAEplX2.jpg


Did I hear someone stay he wants to stay on as Tanaiste and Min for Foreign Affairs ?

Video of Gilmore's glorious career here -

https://www.facebook.com/rtenews

riposte
26-05-2014, 05:59 PM
14-03-2011, 03:02 PM


It seems bizarre, quite frankly, that this should be considered a possibility, but I'm putting this up nonetheless. The Irish Times today claimed that Quinn threw a wobbly and was granted a cabinet seat over the head of Róisín Shortall, who was on course for a senior cabinet position. This has to raise some questions about Gilmores grip on the Labour party, notwithstanding those silly 'Gilmore for Taoiseach' posters. There are 2 former party leaders in the shape of Rabitte and Quinn on the Labour frontbench, and it was only following Rabitte's intervention in the last week that a looming disaster for Labour was averted. The 'Gilmore for Taoiseach' thing didn't come off, and his position would seem to have been weakened. So is it possible that continued tensions inside the LP (as the media seem to believe is the case) might bring Gilmore to the brink?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0314/1224292062260.html

.. as the saying goes ... if you live long enough .. you'll see everything!

jmcc
26-05-2014, 06:10 PM
Successor to Gilmore decided on 4th July - Independents Day? :)

Regards...jmcc

Seán Ryan
26-05-2014, 07:39 PM
Lmao Labour. Gangrene of the **** and the gobshítes decide a circumcision will cure it.

fluffybiscuits
26-05-2014, 09:45 PM
Pinpointing the start of the downfall of Gilmore, in my view of it , when Rosin Shortall was shafted and didnt get the backing she should have done. Gilmore turned full circle in recent years. View all the election literature that is on Irish Election Literature, it speaks about the need for liberating the working class back in the eighties and continues on to fight the water charges. Shoot forward twenty years and he is now cosying up to Enda to put in place austerity.