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TotalMayhem
24-01-2011, 03:18 PM
Divers have described their discovery of a WWI German U-boat that historians believe was destroyed in 1919.

All 27 crew on board the UC42 died when the submarine sank at the entrance to Cork Harbour on 10 September 1917.

It had been laying mines when an explosion was heard.

A team of five amateur divers from Cork discovered the submarine in good condition in 27m of water just off Roches Point on 6 November after a 12-month search.

Diver Ian Kelleher said they were very surprised and ecstatic to find it with little obvious explosive damage.

Positive identification was possible when they found its number stamped on a propeller.

Mr Kelleher, a chemistry student, said that two days before Christmas, the dive team laid a plaque of remembrance near the propellers as a memorial to the 27 German submariners who died.

They plan to return to the site over the coming weeks and continue their research into the submarine and its crew, including trying to contact relatives of the crew.

Source: RTÉ News (http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0124/cork.html)

Wiki: SM UC-42 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SM_UC-42)

http://imgur.com/7eMUB.png

UC-42 on uboat.net (http://www.uboat.net/wwi/boats/index.html?boat=UC+42)

charley
24-01-2011, 04:07 PM
Is their many WW1 u-boats lying in or waters? I know we have lots of WW2 u-boats scuttled off Tory Island as part of Operation Deadlight in 1945 but I am unaware of any first war u-boats in our waters

TotalMayhem
24-01-2011, 04:24 PM
Is their many WW1 u-boats lying in or waters? I know we have lots of WW2 u-boats scuttled off Tory Island as part of Operation Deadlight in 1945 but I am unaware of any first war u-boats in our waters

Most definetly, here's a map with German submarines lost in Irish waters during WW I.

http://imgur.com/2Mzzz.png

The map at uboat.net (http://www.uboat.net/wwi/fates/) is interactive, you can click on the pins to find out more about the U-Boats and their fates.

The U-Boat lost off the coast of Waterford, SM UC-44 was another coastal mine layer of the same class and suffered a similar fate only one month earlier: sunk by one her own mines.

A lot more German subs were sunk in Irish waters during World War II:


there are up to 40 submarines recorded at the bottom of Irish waters.

Interesting article here about Mapping shipwrecks in Irish waters (http://www.sciencespin.com/magazine/archive/2007/05/mapping-shipwrecks-in-irish-waters-/). This article is actually releated to the Irish Seabed Mapping, which is discussed elsewhere at PW.org.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
24-01-2011, 04:41 PM
Better watch it lads the Corkies have a sub now. De Hunt For Red October, boy...

TotalMayhem
24-01-2011, 04:44 PM
Divers have described their discovery of a WWI German U-boat that historians believe was destroyed in 1919.

The article at RTÉ doesn't say why a sub that sank in 1917 was believed to be destroyed in 1919, here's more on that:


Vice-Admiral Bayley, in a number of telegrams to the Admiralty expressed fears that the sunken submarine was a significant hazard to shipping due to the mines and torpedoes contained within the hull. There was a standing order at the time for any submarines found in coastal waters to be raised if possible in order to examine U-boat technology and search for code books and charts. At this time however another U-boat, the UC-44 was being raised in Dunmore East, Co. Waterford, and Bayley was informed that-

"I am to aquaint you that operations are at present being undertaken on another submarine, and there is no plan available for yours, this is considered by DNI to be the most important" (Telegram from Admiralty, April 1918)

During 1918 a number of attempts were made by Haulbowline divers, and by American naval divers to disarm the submarine by removing some of the mines- this was a very delicate task which involved firstly removing the detonator from the side of the mine then unscrewing each of the four brass horns from the tops of the mines, then lifting the mines to a waiting boat where the explosive was removed using steam.

Three mines were removed in this manner and were stored on board USS Melville, the American naval forces destroyer tender which was moored in Cork Harbour. One of the torpedoes was also removed and stored on board Melville.

In July1919, divers acting under the instructions of explosives experts at HMS Vernon torpedo school detonated charges on either side of the UC-42 destroying the submarine. The remains then dispersed along the seabed by means of wire sweeps. Repeated searches of the seabed close to the reported location by scuba divers since the 1970's have failed to show any remaining parts of the submarine. Recent reports however, indicate that the remains of this submarine have been found by sports divers.

Full story here: Shipwrecks of Cork Harbour - The Loss of UC-42 (http://www.iol.ie/~mkeniry/ccuc42.htm)

TotalMayhem
24-01-2011, 04:50 PM
Better watch it lads the Corkies have a sub now. De Hunt For Red October, boy...

Commander Micheál Martin of de Cork Rebel Fleet. :D

Captain Con O'Sullivan
24-01-2011, 04:54 PM
'Tensions rise once more in South China Seas'

Ah Well
24-01-2011, 05:19 PM
Better watch it lads the Corkies have a sub now. De Hunt For Red October, boy...

I hereby claim ownership of the Sub on behalf of the Peoples Republic of Cork

:p

Will be a nice addition to our Naval Stash at Haulbowline for the upcoming Secession from the Rep of Ireland

Oops ... I wasn't meant to say that ... shhhh ;)

TotalMayhem
24-01-2011, 05:40 PM
I hereby claim ownership of the Sub on behalf of the Peoples Republic of Cork

I hereby claim ownership of the Sub on behalf of the people of Clare, twas one of ours who invented (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Philip_Holland) the darn things (well, sort of). ;)

Captain Con O'Sullivan
24-01-2011, 06:50 PM
Poor oul' Kildare lads must be feeling glum. No subs at all off the Kildare coast.

TotalMayhem
24-01-2011, 07:31 PM
Is their many WW1 u-boats lying in or waters?

Here's more about the "Waterford U-Boat":


UC-44 sank on 4 Aug 1917. She was raised by the Royal Navy in September 1917 and later broken up.

While the where and when of the loss are well understood, new research by Robert Grant shows that UC-44 was lost on her own mine that prematurely deployed and not a mine laid by UC-42 [the one recently discovered in Cork Harbour] that had intentionally been left unswept.

They were quite the Busy Bees, mining Irish harbours. I wonder if there are still many unswept mines around.

Ah Well
24-01-2011, 08:14 PM
Poor oul' Kildare lads must be feeling glum. No subs at all off the Kildare coast.

Except for these types, accompanied by Flasks of Tay

http://www.google.ie/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://foodbeast.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/arbys-market-fresh-subs.jpg&sa=X&ei=d909Tb6AL4W7hAfywJ2dCg&ved=0CAQQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNEFvBNsKQ0hWKIoKAqlcypqOA-LOQ

;)

Captain Con O'Sullivan
24-01-2011, 09:10 PM
I'm amazed the Cork lads even announced it. Most of the time you can't get the time for free out of them.

There'll be a quare looking steam engine with phallic overtones at the Upton Steam Rally this year I'd say.

TotalMayhem
24-01-2011, 09:35 PM
Military shipwrecks remain under the jurisdiction – and hence protection – of the government that lost the ship, or that government's successor. Hence, a German U-Boat from World War I still technically belongs to the German government (maybe Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg wants her back?), even though the German "Kaiserreich" is long-defunct.

Many military wrecks are also protected by virtue of their being war graves.

Is there any legislation in Ireland that protects ship wrecks and underwater military aircraft?

Ah Well
24-01-2011, 10:28 PM
More here and a very interesting Site

http://www.iol.ie/~mkeniry/ccuc42.htm

Captain Con O'Sullivan
24-01-2011, 10:33 PM
There was a cemetery in Wexford or part of a cemetery where German aircrews were buried when they crashed or were chased and shot down trying to get to Ireland. My father met an old fellow who was keeping the graves cleared for years and wrote off to the German government (their version of war graves commission) in the late 70's to tell them about the cemetery and mentioned the chap that was looking after the graves.

They sent the old fellow some kind of award and a sum of money in recognition, I don't remember how much.

The father remembers a German aircrew that had been chased and crashed somewhere in Wexford and the surviving aircrew sitting on the back of a flatbed lorry being brought into town.

TotalMayhem
24-01-2011, 10:42 PM
More here and a very interesting Site

http://www.iol.ie/~mkeniry/ccuc42.htm

Yes, I already posted some sniplets from that page.


There was a further award to the crew of HMT Sarba of £300 divided among the crew on a share basis.

It should be noted that these monetary payments to crews for the destruction of enemy ships were found particularly abhorrent by German naval force

That's news to me ... but not really surprising. ;)

TotalMayhem
25-01-2011, 07:41 PM
Better watch it lads the Corkies have a sub now.

It's getting better, the Corkies have another one just outside Cork Harbour. :)

U-58 sank in 1917 outside the harbour after being depth charged by the destroyer USS Fanning and lies in about 70m. It was dived ... in the mid-1990's.

Wikipedia and uboat.net wrongly claim she was sunk 5132N 0521W, which is off the coast of Pembrokeshire in the Bristol Channel.

Now this is one is not a 'shabby' coastal minelayer but a real ocean-going diesel-powered torpedo attack boat.

http://imgur.com/LAbSt.png

Captain Con O'Sullivan
25-01-2011, 07:48 PM
Looks ominous. They are not short of diesel in Cork.

5intheface
25-01-2011, 07:55 PM
http://imgur.com/2Mzzz.png


How did that one Donegal U-Boat make it up in to the Blue Stacks?

Ah Well
25-01-2011, 08:17 PM
How did that one Donegal U-Boat make it up in to the Blue Stacks?

Maybe it's Noah's Ark

http://www.providingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/new/2010/04/Noahs-Ark.jpg

TotalMayhem
25-01-2011, 08:19 PM
How did that one Donegal U-Boat make it up in to the Blue Stacks?

That'd be U-110, a U-93 class ocean-going torpedo attack boat, but there's certainly an inaccuracy in the location (54° 49′ 0″ N, 8° 6′ 0″ W).

Fate:

15 Mar 1918 - Severely damaged in a depth charge attack from HMS Michael and Moresby north-west of Malin Head. Surfaced but sank at 54° 49′ 0″ N, 8° 6′ 0″ W. 39 dead, unknown number of survivors.

charley
25-01-2011, 08:42 PM
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=23553

Over a hundred of them scuttled, scrap metal is a good price these days ,wonder if they'd be worth lifting?

TotalMayhem
25-01-2011, 09:46 PM
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=23553

Over a hundred of them scuttled, scrap metal is a good price these days ,wonder if they'd be worth lifting?

Hardly, the Type VII U-Boat, which comprised the bulk of the German WWII submarine fleet, yields about 500 metric tons of scrap metal, the bigger Type IX U-Boat about 900 metric tons.

At less than €500 per tonne it's not worth lifting them. Say, you find 100 Type VII subs, they'd be worth close to 25 million. For that money you won't raise and break them up. Mind you, they were scuttled in deep water.

Here is a Technical Report (http://www.kystverket.no/arch/_img/9818145.pdf) concerning the salvage and disposal of U-864 ... quite interesting.

The Norwegians had a very good reason to lift her: U-864 was transporting 67 metric tonnes of liquid mercurcy in steel canisters in the keel, the corrosion of the keel and canisters could have caused devastating damage to the local fishing industry.

Starfire
16-02-2011, 09:53 PM
*Interesting.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
16-02-2011, 10:41 PM
Hands offit there boy dats Admiral Ned O'Keeffe's new navy dat is. De Republic of Cark and de Republic of Atlantis have signed a non-aggression pact and its nonstop now yerra to Moscow.

Ah Well
08-06-2011, 09:45 AM
Didn't take long for someone to come along to do a spot of looting ... unbelievable

The Garda National Bureau of Criminal Investigation is investigating several incidents in which clothes and other personal items belonging to its 27-strong crew were looted from the 49-metre, 400-tonne German vessel UC-42. It sank during a mine-laying operation in 1917. The hull appears to have been damaged by rogue divers attempting to remove a propeller.

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfojqlkfmhoj/rss2/#ixzz1OfkOQvRr