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C. Flower
18-01-2011, 11:50 AM
The Aer Lingus dispute over new rosters looks as though it's getting serious. Twelve staff who took a meal break after 8 hours at work have been told they will be taken off the payroll.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/impact-12-aer-lingus-crew-members-taken-off-rosters-489766.html

Baron von Biffo
18-01-2011, 12:05 PM
Communist swine want to eat do they? Bloody good thrashing is what they need, harrumph.

C. Flower
18-01-2011, 12:19 PM
According to RTE News 44 people to be taken off the payroll today.

Baron von Biffo
18-01-2011, 12:45 PM
The recession is a prayer answered for the scumpanies.

Kid Ryder
18-01-2011, 03:36 PM
According to RTE News 44 people to be taken off the payroll today.

And just you wait and watch the union they pay subs to go out of its way to not defend them. Oireland Inc. must be creaming their pants watching this.

wickedfairy
18-01-2011, 10:10 PM
yes Kid, union reaction will be a decider here. They better have a good guy who knows his legals.

Kid Ryder
19-01-2011, 01:33 AM
yes Kid, union reaction will be a decider here. They better have a good guy who knows his legals.

They simply must fight first. Then we can worry about the quality of 'soldier' the union sends the workers.

C. Flower
25-01-2011, 10:33 PM
Since posting, there was a demonstration by several hundred crew at the weekend and today a meeting looking at suspending a large number of staff.

Kerry Public Sector Workers Alliance reminds that David Begg is part of the Board of Aer Lingus and asks what ICTU is doing for the Aer Lingus workers.

http://kpswa.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/missing-in-inaction-ictu-deserts-aer-lingus-crew/

geri222
26-01-2011, 01:12 AM
Since posting, there was a demonstration by several hundred crew at the weekend and today a meeting looking at suspending a large number of staff.

Kerry Public Sector Workers Alliance reminds that David Begg is part of the Board of Aer Lingus and asks what ICTU is doing for the Aer Lingus workers.

http://kpswa.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/missing-in-inaction-ictu-deserts-aer-lingus-crew/

David Begg gets paid in excess of €45k PA for this post. Disgusting !

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1014050.shtml

disability student
26-01-2011, 01:56 PM
Recieved a word that Arup an Engineering firm has laid off more staff without any warning this week. More to come re other business as the retail trade isn't great at the moment due to severe cuts coming from UHC and the budget cuts as well.

C. Flower
26-01-2011, 02:22 PM
Over 100 off the payroll.

An IMPACT Rep on RTE 1 news lunchtime said that last week Aer Lingus Management produced a new roster without discussion and demanded everyone worked to it. It required for an extra 3-4 flexibility on shifts, amongst other things. People have been called into individual meetings and pressure put on them to sign to agree it.

Griska
26-01-2011, 03:14 PM
This is becoming even more serious.

The power of unions in general will be affected by the outcome of this.
Radio shows aren't helping by broadcasting texts by unemployed people offering to work three million hours per week either.

TotalMayhem
26-01-2011, 04:21 PM
Time to shut down this quango. Rather than pumping millions of taxpayers' money into their redudancy schemes, we should sell it to Micko (doesn't he own 30% already?), he'll show them how to run an airline. ;)

barrym
27-01-2011, 12:04 PM
Just heard two cabin crew on Kenny, If their stories are correct it is time that the Health and Safety police moved in and Aer Lingus boycotted by all trade unionists and others who object to the race to the bottom.

ruralista
27-01-2011, 12:34 PM
Just heard two cabin crew on Kenny, If their stories are correct it is time that the Health and Safety police moved in and Aer Lingus boycotted by all trade unionists and others who object to the race to the bottom.

I did'nt hear the broadcast but my understanding is that Health and Safety and prep of planes is part of the everyday roster.
As im supposed to book 2 flights this week I am considering the option of a ferry as the potential compromise on Health and Safety is too big an issue to flirt with.
Also my understanding is that the work involved amounts to 17.7 hrs per week, Albeit unsocial hours, It looks to me that both sides need to get very real about this dispute as the massive impact on the people trying to retain the threads of their lives both business and other is being severly compromised, Its time to separate perception from reality and stop dithering via Corporate enforcement or Trade Union mantras which bear little or no realities on our current situation.
Regardless of what agenda is on the table for Aer Lingus or its staff, This madness is just going to cripple us further and maybe in more ways than financially.

moss
27-01-2011, 03:38 PM
I did'nt hear the broadcast but my understanding is that Health and Safety and prep of planes is part of the everyday roster.
As im supposed to book 2 flights this week I am considering the option of a ferry as the potential compromise on Health and Safety is too big an issue to flirt with.
Also my understanding is that the work involved amounts to 17.7 hrs per week, Albeit unsocial hours, It looks to me that both sides need to get very real about this dispute as the massive impact on the people trying to retain the threads of their lives both business and other is being severly compromised, Its time to separate perception from reality and stop dithering via Corporate enforcement or Trade Union mantras which bear little or no realities on our current situation.
Regardless of what agenda is on the table for Aer Lingus or its staff, This madness is just going to cripple us further and maybe in more ways than financially.

From what I understand, Aer Lingus introduced new rosters without consultation.

Either they think they can treat their staff like sheep or they engineered this dispute for whatever reason.

Either way, Are Lingus are the party at fault, if my understanding of the dispute is accurate.

matt
27-01-2011, 03:42 PM
The Union agreed to roster changes last year. Aer Lingus since changed them again without agreement or consultation.
They seem to be following Ryanair's example of how staff are dealt with, and/or are trying to force them into industrial action at a time when, according to the employment rights commission, 'Ireland's employment law is not worth the paper it is written on'.

I'm off to France in the Spring, and have chosen not to 'fly Aer Lingus.'

Griska
27-01-2011, 04:33 PM
The Aer Lingus top dog, can't remember his name, informed cabin crew some time ago that their jobs should not be seen as careers, and that he sees the job as more of a gap-year type of employment. This is not about rosters or consultation.

It's about breaking the union, reducing the rights of workers and setting a very significant precedent.

Baron von Biffo
27-01-2011, 04:50 PM
The Aer Lingus top dog, can't remember his name, informed cabin crew some time ago that their jobs should not be seen as careers, and that he sees the job as more of a gap-year type of employment. This is not about rosters or consultation.

It's about breaking the union, reducing the rights of workers and setting a very significant precedent.

+1

In certain business, political and media circles the recession is seen as a fantastic opportunity to break the unions. We're seeing the rise of the scumpany and it's very ugly.

disability student
27-01-2011, 04:53 PM
+1

In certain business, political and media circles the recession is seen as a fantastic opportunity to break the unions. We're seeing the rise of the scumpany and it's very ugly.

They are following the Ryanair way for now and we sit back and see what developments will go from there??

It reminded me of the Irish ferries Saga and the chairman Rothwell re race to the bottom.

wickedfairy
27-01-2011, 09:10 PM
its a bloody disgrace. The bearded fools should call for a general strike, before every union member pulls their subs.

wickedfairy
27-01-2011, 09:11 PM
any aer lingus employees on here who can tell us the true story?

wickedfairy
27-01-2011, 09:17 PM
Just heard two cabin crew on Kenny, If their stories are correct it is time that the Health and Safety police moved in and Aer Lingus boycotted by all trade unionists and others who object to the race to the bottom.

what choice do we have BM, Ryanair, strike breakers? Seriously, its time for a call for a general strike. Watching RTE news there, Reid Furniture closing, but high end furniture outfits doing quite well, what does that tell you? They are all taking the ****.

bolshevik
30-01-2011, 11:30 AM
what choice do we have BM, Ryanair, strike breakers? Seriously, its time for a call for a general strike. Watching RTE news there, Reid Furniture closing, but high end furniture outfits doing quite well, what does that tell you? They are all taking the ****.

It is pretty clear that there is an objective need for mass industrial action, up to and including, a general strike. We are facing a generalised attack as working people and we need a generalised response.

But we have a real problem in that the existing leadership of the unions are so corrupt/incompetent that there is little chance of them making such a call and even to the extent that they did they would betray it at the first opportunity in return for more meaningless talks.

That is why it is necessary for militants to organise groupings within the unions based on class-struggle politics in opposition to the bureaucrats – not only to overcome their resistance to a general strike, but also to lay the basis for a more general working-class offensive. We also need the creation of something like "Committees for a general strike" to group together all those who agree on this perspective, whatever their other political differences.

The reality is that for a general strike to succeed, it must use serious methods. One key lesson that must be re-learned is that ‘picket lines mean don’t cross!’. The ICTU bureaucracy explicitly condones crossing picket lines: ‘Where a union picket is placed other unions with members in the employment affected should advise their members to report for work as normal and to carry out their normal work’ (‘A Guide to the Picketing Policy of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions’). During the one-day strike by the Civil Public and Services Union on 26 February 2009 the CPSU pickets made no serious attempts to prevent anyone going into work. Such displays of weakness embolden employers and undermine the effectiveness of the strike tactic.

A successful general strike would require the election of strike committees in every workplace, whether or not it is unionised. Such committees would need co-ordination to be effective — something that could be done through meetings of delegated representatives at the local, regional and national levels.

I realise that from where we stand now, as more-or-less isolated militants within a generally demoralised and apathetic membership, this may appear an unrealistic perspective. But I would strongly argue that it is in fact the only realistic strategy for building a movement within the unions that could actually defeat the current attacks. The alternative of relying on pushing the bureaucrats into taking action is a recipie for defeat.

As a first step I think popularising the idea of building "Committees for a general strike" makes sense - what do others think?

Griska
30-01-2011, 02:31 PM
It is pretty clear that there is an objective need for mass industrial action, up to and including, a general strike. We are facing a generalised attack as working people and we need a generalised response.

But we have a real problem in that the existing leadership of the unions are so corrupt/incompetent that there is little chance of them making such a call and even to the extent that they did they would betray it at the first opportunity in return for more meaningless talks.

That is why it is necessary for militants to organise groupings within the unions based on class-struggle politics in opposition to the bureaucrats – not only to overcome their resistance to a general strike, but also to lay the basis for a more general working-class offensive. We also need the creation of something like "Committees for a general strike" to group together all those who agree on this perspective, whatever their other political differences.

The reality is that for a general strike to succeed, it must use serious methods. One key lesson that must be re-learned is that ‘picket lines mean don’t cross!’. The ICTU bureaucracy explicitly condones crossing picket lines: ‘Where a union picket is placed other unions with members in the employment affected should advise their members to report for work as normal and to carry out their normal work’ (‘A Guide to the Picketing Policy of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions’). During the one-day strike by the Civil Public and Services Union on 26 February 2009 the CPSU pickets made no serious attempts to prevent anyone going into work. Such displays of weakness embolden employers and undermine the effectiveness of the strike tactic.

A successful general strike would require the election of strike committees in every workplace, whether or not it is unionised. Such committees would need co-ordination to be effective — something that could be done through meetings of delegated representatives at the local, regional and national levels.

I realise that from where we stand now, as more-or-less isolated militants within a generally demoralised and apathetic membership, this may appear an unrealistic perspective. But I would strongly argue that it is in fact the only realistic strategy for building a movement within the unions that could actually defeat the current attacks. The alternative of relying on pushing the bureaucrats into taking action is a recipie for defeat.

As a first step I think popularising the idea of building "Committees for a general strike" makes sense - what do others think?

But, Bolshevik, a general strike is extremely unlikely. I'm not saying you're not right, but in the meantime, what do you suggest?

bolshevik
30-01-2011, 02:45 PM
But, Bolshevik, a general strike is extremely unlikely. I'm not saying you're not right, but in the meantime, what do you suggest?

As per my final sentence, I think the immediate task is trying to get those militants who want to work towards a general strike talking about how the initial steps might concretely happen and then when there is broad agreement on the way forward to start implementing it by testing the water.

It may be that we decide that creating "Committees for a general strike" is too ambitious and something more like the co-ordination of various campaigns that I have been talking to other militants in Cork about is more realistic as a first step.

Griska
30-01-2011, 02:49 PM
As per my final sentence, I think the immediate task is trying to get those militants who want to work towards a general strike talking about how the initial steps might concretely happen and then when there is broad agreement on the way forward to start implementing it by testing the water.

It may be that we decide that creating "Committees for a general strike" is too ambitious and something more like the co-ordination of various campaigns that I have been talking to other militants in Cork about is more realistic as a first step.

How will this benefit the Aer Lingus workers who are threatened with unemploment?

bolshevik
30-01-2011, 02:59 PM
How will this benefit the Aer Lingus workers who are threatened with unemploment?

Sorry misunderstood your question. This won't help the Aer Lingus workers under threat of the sack as it is a longer-term perspective.

The immediate threat to the Aer Lingus workers' jobs could only be averted through industrial action to make the managment back away from their union busting strategy.

Given the hard stance taken by management this would require a depth of commitment to class struggle by the union officials that isn't really there and in the absence of a militant rank and file movement to prosecute the industrial action I am pessimistic about the immediate prospects.