Sinn Fein prove themselves hypocrites

[People Korps]

While denouncing cuts in the Republic of Ireland the all Ireland party have imposed draconian attacks on the population of Northern Ireland . Indeed head gunman McGuinness defends them and is responsible for imposing them. I think the excuse as always in these cases is "ei but we are in government now ...."
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Wednesday December 15 2010
Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness has defended his role in handling cuts in Northern Ireland while his party is opposing cuts in the Republic of Ireland.

The all-island party has faced criticism for attacking dramatic cuts in the south where it is in opposition, while preparing to axe funding north of the border where it is in government.

Mr McGuinness claimed his party faced £4 billion in cuts imposed on Stormont by the British Government but had successfully eased the burden by devising a budget plan with more than £1 billion of revenue-raising ideas

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/mcguinness-defends-spending-cuts-2462345.html

[John McMahon]

While denouncing cuts in the Republic of Ireland the all Ireland party have imposed draconian attacks on the population of Northern Ireland . Indeed head gunman McGuinness defends them and is responsible for imposing them. I think the excuse as always in these cases is "ei but we are in government now ...."
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http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/mcguinness-defends-spending-cuts-2462345.html

And what do you suggest should have been done? Catch David Cameron by the throat and demand more money?

[TotalMayhem]

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Sinn Fein prove themselves hypocrites

People Korps proves himself clueless, failing to grasp the meaning of Realpolitik.

[People Korps]

So we can expect Sinn Fein to govern using methods of Realpolitik (translation =the same old sh*t?)

You people are funny. John, get out of your Catholic ghetto and united with the Protestant and Catholic people who demand a genuine social revolution.
Get you eyes out of your navel and your thumb out of your posterior.

[TotalMayhem]

You do realise that Stormont isn't exactly a sovereign government?

[People Korps]

You do realise that Stormont isn't exactly a sovereign government?

I do realise that the two main parties are the DUP and Sinn Fein.....now the happy slaves of the Tory/Lib Dems .

Yes I am aware of SF collaboration with the British state thanks....if you want history lessons I can give you online tutorials , I charge 50 euro an hour though.

[John McMahon]

[QUOTE=People Korps;102848]

"So we can expect Sinn Fein to govern using methods of Realpolitik (translation =the same old sh*t?)"

Please, make you criticism constructive.

"You people are funny. John, get out of your Catholic ghetto and united with the Protestant and Catholic people who demand a genuine social revolution."

Mind your manners. Would you suggest to a Jew that he unite with Nazis?

"Get you eyes out of your navel and your thumb out of your arse."

Is vulgar abuse all you have to offer?

[TotalMayhem]

if you want history lessons I can give you online tutorials , I charge 50 euro an hour though.

Thanks, but no thanks. For now it would be fine if you answer John's question:


And what do you suggest should have been done? Catch David Cameron by the throat and demand more money?

[disability student]

While denouncing cuts in the Republic of Ireland the all Ireland party have imposed draconian attacks on the population of Northern Ireland . Indeed head gunman McGuinness defends them and is responsible for imposing them. I think the excuse as always in these cases is "ei but we are in government now ...."
More Pricks More Prricks



http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/mcguinness-defends-spending-cuts-2462345.html

That was total sheer hypocrisy on their part as they can't have it in both ways:p:eek:

[People Korps]

"So we can expect Sinn Fein to govern using methods of Realpolitik (translation =the same old sh*t?)"[/B]

Please, make you criticism constructive.

That was in response to TM's limp attack on my knowledge base



"You people are funny. John, get out of your Catholic ghetto and united with the Protestant and Catholic people who demand a genuine social revolution."

Mind your manners. Would you suggest to a Jew that he unite with Nazis?[/QUOTE]

If the Jews were already in peaceful and Voluntary unity with the Nazis and the Nazis had in general stopped killing them why not. In fact your little war would have benefitted from a strict Fenian non sectarian republican ethos . Instead you poor fools took the bait and had yourselves a grand old religious war . Thereby weakening your chance of effecting a republican solution. SF/IRA are prime in this anti Fenian anti IRB
policy


[B]"Get you eyes out of your navel and your thumb out of your arse."

Is vulgar abuse all you have to offer?

To people who have failed to adopt Fenian orthodoxy and Fenian ideals absolutely.

[antiestablishmentarian]

Are ye finished insulting each other yet? SF (or at least its leadership: there are many good people in the grassroots organisation) are part of the establishment up there, as they will be here in time, and have no real problem with cuts or neol-liberal politics so long as they have political leeway to avoid being held responsable for it.

[John McMahon]

The following from People Korps is really a gem

"If the Jews were already in peaceful and Voluntary unity with the Nazis and the Nazis had in general stopped killing them why not. In fact your little war would have benefitted from a strict Fenian non sectarian republican ethos . Instead you poor fools took the bait and had yourselves a grand old religious war . Thereby weakening your chance of effecting a republican solution. SF/IRA are prime in this anti Fenian anti IRB policy"

""If the Jews were already in peaceful and Voluntary unity with the Nazis and the Nazis had in general stopped killing them why not"

Could People Korps not leave it to the victims to decide that? No doubt, he finds it easy to forget and forgive what was done to somebody else.

"In fact your little war would have benefitted from a strict Fenian non sectarian republican ethos."

So he is not telling us how we should have fought the war. Perhaps, if he had not stood idly by in August 1969, he could have led by example. I think that we Catholics should have fought a much more sectarian war.

"Instead you poor fools took the bait and had yourselves a grand old religious war. Thereby weakening your chance of effecting a republican solution."

So he thinks we should have let the Protestants walk over us in order to advance his non-sectarian republician socialist agenda. I am not a socialist, I am not a republician, I am an oppressed Ulster Catholic.

"SF/IRA are prime in this anti Fenian anti IRB policy"

If only that were true.

[Apjp]

The following from People Korps is really a gem

"If the Jews were already in peaceful and Voluntary unity with the Nazis and the Nazis had in general stopped killing them why not. In fact your little war would have benefitted from a strict Fenian non sectarian republican ethos . Instead you poor fools took the bait and had yourselves a grand old religious war . Thereby weakening your chance of effecting a republican solution. SF/IRA are prime in this anti Fenian anti IRB policy"

""If the Jews were already in peaceful and Voluntary unity with the Nazis and the Nazis had in general stopped killing them why not"

Could People Korps not leave it to the victims to decide that? No doubt, he finds it easy to forget and forgive what was done to somebody else.

"In fact your little war would have benefitted from a strict Fenian non sectarian republican ethos."

So he is not telling us how we should have fought the war. Perhaps, if he had not stood idly by in August 1969, he could have led by example. I think that we Catholics should have fought a much more sectarian war.

"Instead you poor fools took the bait and had yourselves a grand old religious war. Thereby weakening your chance of effecting a republican solution."

So he thinks we should have let the Protestants walk over us in order to advance his non-sectarian republician socialist agenda. I am not a socialist, I am not a republician, I am an oppressed Ulster Catholic.

"SF/IRA are prime in this anti Fenian anti IRB policy"

If only that were true.

Interesting how the seemingly impartial ageist john now thinks protestants are nazis...

[Apjp]

"You people are funny. John, get out of your Catholic ghetto and united with the Protestant and Catholic people who demand a genuine social revolution."

Mind your manners. Would you suggest to a Jew that he unite with Nazis?

Seriously, John, what does this have to do with SF and their different stances north and south?

[moss]

While denouncing cuts in the Republic of Ireland the all Ireland party have imposed draconian attacks on the population of Northern Ireland . Indeed head gunman McGuinness defends them and is responsible for imposing them. I think the excuse as always in these cases is "ei but we are in government now ...."
More Pricks More Prricks



http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/mcguinness-defends-spending-cuts-2462345.html

You had to wait for the Independent to tell you this :confused:

Not exactly the brains of the FFers are you.

Still, with the election on it's way they need all the bodies they can get.

[morticia]

Hmm

Politicians found to be hypocritical...... jeez, thats almost up there with....

Shock: water discovered to be wet

or.... Be Warned, Snow is Cold.....

[John McMahon]

Interesting how the seemingly impartial ageist john now thinks protestants are nazis...

Why the use of the word "now"? Your inclusion of that word "now" insinuates that this is a new opinion of mine. There is nothing new about it. I have believed that for more than 40 years - in fact since July 1966.

Why am I "seemingly impartial"? I am not impartial. I wholeheartedly approve of our people defending themselves from the Protestants.

[John McMahon]

Seriously, John, what does this have to do with SF and their different stances north and south?

People Korps, a Stater, dared to lecture me about my attitude towards my enemies.

[5intheface]

People Korps, dared to lecture me about my attitude towards my enemies.

John could you please moderate that comment and ease up on the direct insults?

[John McMahon]

John could you please moderate that comment and ease up on the direct insults?

He insulted me. Look at his response to my first post on this thread.

[John McMahon]

John could you please moderate that comment and ease up on the direct insults?

For your convenience I have copied and pasted his comment.

"Get you eyes out of your navel and your thumb out of your arse."

[5intheface]

For your convenience I have copied and pasted his comment.

"Get you eyes out of your navel and your thumb out of your arse."

Fair enough John, I'd ask everyone to moderate their language. Thanks for editting your post above.

[Lifeisagame]

Hmm difficult to see why NI Politicians can work here, based on the bigotry above.
I do cite John for his unbelievable Catholicism Posts on other Threads and now he is showing his bigotry here.
I live in a country that is suffering and I do not need bigots or in the case of Political Pretenders to come here and tell us what to do.
Find your dead, erase your dissidents and stop pretending you are the Wonders of the World.
In other words mind your own damn bigotted business.
I am not interested in yours and never was, am proud of that.

[People Korps]

The following from People Korps is really a gem

"If the Jews were already in peaceful and Voluntary unity with the Nazis and the Nazis had in general stopped killing them why not. In fact your little war would have benefitted from a strict Fenian non sectarian republican ethos . Instead you poor fools took the bait and had yourselves a grand old religious war . Thereby weakening your chance of effecting a republican solution. SF/IRA are prime in this anti Fenian anti IRB policy"

""If the Jews were already in peaceful and Voluntary unity with the Nazis and the Nazis had in general stopped killing them why not"

Could People Korps not leave it to the victims to decide that? No doubt, he finds it easy to forget and forgive what was done to somebody else.

"In fact your little war would have benefitted from a strict Fenian non sectarian republican ethos."

So he is not telling us how we should have fought the war. Perhaps, if he had not stood idly by in August 1969, he could have led by example. I think that we Catholics should have fought a much more sectarian war.

"Instead you poor fools took the bait and had yourselves a grand old religious war. Thereby weakening your chance of effecting a republican solution."

So he thinks we should have let the Protestants walk over us in order to advance his non-sectarian republician socialist agenda. I am not a socialist, I am not a republician, I am an oppressed Ulster Catholic.

"SF/IRA are prime in this anti Fenian anti IRB policy"

If only that were true.

I'm Home Dear.

What I a was saying for the hard of hearing bigots was that you abrogated the noble Fenian ideals and engaged in sectarian strive rather than advocated a true Fenian revolution for the advancement of the republican principles of Equality, Fraternity and Liberty. You allowed yourselves to be turned into the glove puppets of your enemies, and John, you are still allowing them to use you like a knave.

Re the post about John and his ilk partcpating in southern politics given their bigotry , you have a very good point.

[moss]

Hmm difficult to see why NI Politicians can work here, based on the bigotry above.
I do cite John for his unbelievable Catholicism Posts on other Threads and now he is showing his bigotry here.
I live in a country that is suffering and I do not need bigots or in the case of Political Pretenders to come here and tell us what to do.
Find your dead, erase your dissidents and stop pretending you are the Wonders of the World.
In other words mind your own damn bigotted business.
I am not interested in yours and never was, am proud of that.

Indeed, Ireland has it's fair share of bigots alright.

[People Korps]

You had to wait for the Independent to tell you this :confused:

Not exactly the brains of the FFers are you.

Still, with the election on it's way they need all the bodies they can get.

As I have never been a FFer I have obviously never been their brains , but sitting here in sunny Madrid I thought you frosties might have fun discussing the obvious flaws in a pan territorial party that is in government enacting FF style cuts in one jurisdiction while pretending they will change all in the other.

[Cáthasaigh]

Brendan Hughes condemned the PSF development of "professional liars" decades ago, but he "wasn't well" according to Gerry. Nothing new here for those who know.

[moss]

As I have never been a FFer I have obviously never been their brains , but sitting here in sunny Madrid I thought you frosties might have fun discussing the obvious flaws in a pan territorial party that is in government enacting FF style cuts in one jurisdiction while pretending they will change all in the other.

The 2 jurisdictions might give you a clue. The revenue raising powers in the 6C jurisdiction might also give you a clue.

Where's the flaws ?

Other than partition and foreign occupation of part of our nation.

[Apjp]

Why the use of the word "now"? Your inclusion of that word "now" insinuates that this is a new opinion of mine. There is nothing new about it. I have believed that for more than 40 years - in fact since July 1966.

Why am I "seemingly impartial"? I am not impartial. I wholeheartedly approve of our people defending themselves from the Protestants.

That is sectarianism. I am reporting this john. ye cannot go round calling protestants nazis. wolfe tone and parnell were protestants. if you want some sick anti-loyalist or anti-protestant people, ye wont find them here.

[Lifeisagame]

Not going into 26/32 County. Anyone knows that with a mess like ours you do not add to it with Current unnecessary actions. Our shambles of a Government is finished and our next shambles are polishing their cars. Adding petrol to the fire only makes it worse. Gerry Adams has obviously decided he is the Messiah, good luck to him. Personally I think he has unfinished business and should be man enough to address it.

[Lifeisagame]

Personally think John has been way over the top for some time now. Just my opinion.

[People Korps]

That is sectarianism. I am reporting this john. ye cannot go round calling protestants nazis. wolfe tone and parnell were protestants. if you want some sick anti-loyalist or anti-protestant people, ye wont find them here.

Thomas Clarke Luby (nephew of Trinity Fellow) John O Mahony ( Catholic but Trinity graduate) Thomas Davis (protestant ) , Bulmer Hobson (Quaker) and many many Young Irelanders and Fenians Fenians too.
Fenianism is non sectarianism striving towards the Republican ideal

what the John's and the Gerrys and The martins did was allow themselves to be used by engaging in a sectarian rather than a political conflict.
Shame on them.

But back on topic now they SF behave as Cameron's cutting machine in NI and preach to the ROI voters that they wont be the IMF cutting lap dogs in power. I say all the main parties in Ireland will be lap dogs post the 2011 election.

[parrhesiast]

He insulted me. Look at his response to my first post on this thread.

Forgive me but this stuff about Protestants being Nazis makes for perfectly horrendous reading!

'He insulted me.'

When you've been insulted (or feel you have) aren't you supposed to turn the other cheek? Isn't that what Jesus told you to do?

Now I don't know who you are John but if you're a young child then please allow me as a senior citizen to give you a bit of advice: the best way to deal with insults is to rise above them.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Peter

[5intheface]

Now I don't know who you are John but if you're a young child then please allow me as a senior citizen to give you a bit of advice: the best way to deal with insults is to rise above them.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Peter

John's not a child but perfectly reasonable sentiment.

Now could everyone restrict posts on this thread to the actual topic from here onwards?

[People Korps]

People Korps, a Stater, dared to lecture me about my attitude towards my enemies.

Actually my people were never staters, quite the opposite as I have told you before, but hey you are the guy who says you came to the conclusion in 1966 that protestants were nazis.

Are you saying that in order to defend Sf's different policies in government versus hustling seats in the RoI by seemingly being against cuts? McGuinness in his defense says he has stalled 4 billion in cuts ...for how long and what side deal was done ?

remember Sf are in government with shock ...protestants
indeed with Calvinists, John........and the are making draconian cuts on both communities.

[moss]

But back on topic now they SF behave as Cameron's cutting machine in NI and preach to the ROI voters that they wont be the IMF cutting lap dogs in power. I say all the main parties in Ireland will be lap dogs post the 2011 election.

The only point I would make is that SF are the only main party that are saying that they would not 'be the IMF cutting lapdogs' in the 26C.
I don't recall them making the same claims re cuts in the 6C. They couldn't as they have no power to prevent it.
The situations are in no way comparable.

This thread is a hatchet job and nothing else.

If people want to keep out the IMF then the SP, ULA and SF are their only options.

[People Korps]

The only point I would make is that SF are the only main party that are saying that they would not 'be the IMF cutting lapdogs' in the 26C.
I don't recall them making the same claims re cuts in the 6C. They couldn't as they have no power to prevent it.
The situations are in no way comparable.

This thread is a hatchet job and nothing else.

If people want to keep out the IMF then the SP, ULA and SF are their only options.

Explain to the good readers how Sinn Fein, the co government of NI cannot resign rather than implement Tory cuts?

I have no hatchet .....they do the job .

[moss]

Explain to the good readers how Sinn Fein, the co government of NI cannot resign rather than implement Tory cuts?

I have no hatchet .....they do the job .

They can indeed resign.

Perhaps you could explain how that would affect the block grant coming from westminster.

If you read back and try to engage your brain, you'd realise the siuations are not comparable.

Yet I think you already know that, hence my belief this thread is nothing but a hatchet job.

[John McMahon]

[QUOTE=Lifeisagame;102916]

"I live in a country that is suffering and I do not need bigots or in the case of Political Pretenders to come here and tell us what to do."

I have not told you what to do. Please remember that this thread is about Sinn Fein behaviour in Northern Ireland.

Over the years, Eire politicians and journalists have been very good at lecturing us on what to do in our own province.

a) Conor Cruise O'Brien lectured the SDLP about its policy on the RUC while, on the Late, Late Show the then leader of the Labour Party lectured Sinn Fein on its policy on the PSNI.

b) Eire politicians and journalists have even dared to reprimand Ulster Catholics about our voting behaviour. e.g. Paddy Cooney, Brendan O'Connor, Kevin Myers, Eoghan Harris.

c) Two Eire journalists (Ruth Dudley Edwards and Declan Lynch) dared to reprimand John Hume for saying that Ulster Protestants had the same mentality as white South Africans.

d) Two Eire politicians (The then mayor of Limerick, Mrs Terry Kelly and Austin Deasy TD) reprimanded the late Cardinal O'Fiach for not condemning Catholics who vote Sinn Fein.

e) In September 1979 Garret Fitzgerald went behind the backs of Ulster Catholics to lobby the Pope about integrated education in Northern Ireland.

f) Ruari Quinn and Liz McManus came to the north to electioneer for the SDLP. It did not do the SDLP much good.

If you do not want Catholics of Northern Ireland interfering in your political life, first keep your own people out of the politics of Northern Ireland.

"In other words mind your own damn bigotted business."

Excellent advice. Please take your own advice.

"I am not interested in yours and never was, am proud of that."

If you are not interested, why have you posted on a thread which is about Sinn Fein behaviour in Northern Ireland? Please be consistent. I firmly believe that you Staters talk first and think later - that is, if you think at all.

Practise what you preach. And tell your politicians and journalists and clergy (all of them) to keep their Free State noses out of the politics of Northern Ireland. We need no sermons from those who abandoned us in 1921 and who stood idly by in August 1969.

[John McMahon]

I'm Home Dear.

What I a was saying for the hard of hearing bigots was that you abrogated the noble Fenian ideals and engaged in sectarian strive rather than advocated a true Fenian revolution for the advancement of the republican principles of Equality, Fraternity and Liberty. You allowed yourselves to be turned into the glove puppets of your enemies, and John, you are still allowing them to use you like a knave.

Re the post about John and his ilk partcpating in southern politics given their bigotry , you have a very good point.

Have you forgotten? This post is about Sinn Fein behaviour in Northern Ireland.

And please leave the oppressed Catholic people of Northern Ireland to deal with our problems as we so wish. Sermons against sectarianism are highly provocative when preached by those who can have had little opportunity to practise their non-sectarianism.

[John McMahon]

That is sectarianism. I am reporting this john. ye cannot go round calling protestants nazis. wolfe tone and parnell were protestants. if you want some sick anti-loyalist or anti-protestant people, ye wont find them here.

In what way have you been hurt by the Protestants? As for Wolfe Tone. He was an anti-Catholic bigot who wanted an independent Ireland so that he and his fellow Protestant could rule it. He was the Irish version of Ian Smith of Rhodesia.

If you do not like getting wet, do not go into the water. If you do not like sectarianism, do not interfere in the politics of Northern Ireland. And this thread is about Northern Ireland. How I see my oppressors is my business, none of yours. You, a Stater, have one hell of a cheek.

[John McMahon]

Personally think John has been way over the top for some time now. Just my opinion.

I think that you have been way over the top in very many posts.

[C. Flower]

In what way have you been hurt by the Protestants? As for Wolfe Tone. He was an anti-Catholic bigot who wanted an independent Ireland so that he and his fellow Protestant could rule it. He was the Irish version of Ian Smith of Rhodesia.

If you do not like getting wet, do not go into the water. If you do not like sectarianism, do not interfere in the politics of Northern Ireland. And this thread is about Northern Ireland. How I see my oppressors is my business, none of yours. You, a Stater, have one hell of a cheek.

I see where you're coming from, John McMahon, but there's no border in this site, which is a virtual entity located in the ether. It's the rule and practice of the site that people are entitled to post about all parts of the island. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with them, of course.

[John McMahon]

[QUOTE=People Korps;102936]

"the John's and the Gerrys and The martins did was allow themselves to be used by engaging in a sectarian rather than a political conflict.
Shame on them."

No doubt, like most other Staters, you find it easy to be nice to Protestants when you live at a comfortable distance from them.

[C. Flower]

[QUOTE=People Korps;102936]

"the John's and the Gerrys and The martins did was allow themselves to be used by engaging in a sectarian rather than a political conflict.
Shame on them."

No doubt, like most other Staters, you find it easy to be nice to Protestants when you live at a comfortable distance from them.

What has this post got to do with SF and the cuts ? If you want to discuss the evils of Protestantism, perhaps you would start a thread in the Religion forum :)

[John McMahon]

[QUOTE=People Korps;102958]

"Actually my people were never staters, quite the opposite as I have told you before, but hey you are the guy who says you came to the conclusion in 1966 that protestants were nazis."

A Stater is a native of Eire. Just as you folk describe us as "Nordies" we refer to you as "Staters".

I am opposed to Sinn Fein taking part in the politics of Eire. I think that membership of Sinn Fein should be restricted to victims of Protestant tyranny in Northern Ireland. Sinn Fein should be an exclusively victims party.

I am opposed to the power sharing government in Northern Ireland. I would like Sinn Fein to withdraw from it and bring it down. And then seek a devolved government within the UK for the mainly Catholic areas of Northern Ireland - an Ulster Catholic state for the Ulster Catholic people. If the minority nation in Ireland, the Protestant 20% has a right to self-determination, the minority nation in Northern Ireland, the Catholic 45% must have an even greater right to self-determination and a yet greater right to self-administration.

[John McMahon]

I see where you're coming from, John McMahon, but there's no border in this site, which is a virtual entity located in the ether. It's the rule and practice of the site that people are entitled to post about all parts of the island. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with them, of course.

Certain posters attacked my right to post on this thread because I live in Northern Ireland. Even though the thread was about Northern Ireland. Did you ever? One poster told me to mind my own business.

[John McMahon]

[quote=John McMahon;102990]

What has this post got to do with SF and the cuts ? If you want to discuss the evils of Protestantism, perhaps you would start a thread in the Religion forum :)

My first post was about the cuts in which I invited People Korps to offer an alternative. For my sins I was subjected to vulgar abuse and given a sermon about non-sectarianism. I do not appreciate such sermons - especially when they emanate from silly southerners who have lived and who continue to live at a comfortable distance from my oppressors.

Why are you Eirefolk so abusive? Why can you Eirefolk not keep to the subject? And why are so many Eirefolk so willing to preach at others on how to deal with problems they have never had to encounter?

[John McMahon]

[QUOTE=parrhesiast;102949]

"Forgive me but this stuff about Protestants being Nazis makes for perfectly horrendous reading!"

Why? It says in the Bible "the truth shall set ye free. Now you are free." Please face the truth.

"When you've been insulted (or feel you have) aren't you supposed to turn the other cheek? Isn't that what Jesus told you to do?"

Spare me the sermons, Stater, please spare me the sermons. I ran out of cheeks to turn very many years ago. Anyway, I am not a Christain, I am a Catholic. I believe in eyes for an eye, teeth for a tooth.

"Now I don't know who you are John but if you're a young child then please allow me as a senior citizen to give you a bit of advice: the best way to deal with insults is to rise above them."

Some people think that. I do not. And I, also, am a senior citizen.

[John McMahon]

Explain to the good readers how Sinn Fein, the co government of NI cannot resign rather than implement Tory cuts?

They could resign and I wish that they would. But that would not stop the cuts. The Secretary of State, Owen Patterson, who seems to be an out and out Thacherite, would take over and the cuts would still happen. And perhaps worse.

I am not very interested in the affairs of Eire (except in matters which could pose a threat to my race). Nevertheless, I offer the following opinion. I am not convinced that Eire has any options other than implement the cuts which have been ordered by the EU and the IMF. When I see Ruairi Quinn (of all people) coming out in support of the cuts, it leads me to believe that unconditional financial surrender is the only realistic policy. I hope that I am wrong, very, very wrong.

[Chuck Mc]

And what good would it do if they resigned? They don't wield enough votes in the 6C to effect a change in the cuts. A resignation would send all that has been accomplished back to where we were 20 years ago when we were screaming for the right of self determination.

[Cáthasaigh]

If people want to keep out the IMF then the SP, ULA and SF are their only options.

The Brits are part of the IMF bailout and stand to gain significantly from the leveraged buyout. PSF are the British policy/interest party with a habit of promising never to do things they have already decided to do. Trusting PSF would be like asking Fr Brendan Smith to babysit your kids.

[Lá an Lúbáin]

The Brits are part of the IMF bailout and stand to gain significantly from the leveraged buyout. PSF are the British policy/interest party with a habit of promising never to do things they have already decided to do. Trusting PSF would be like asking Fr Brendan Smith to babysit your kids.

Reductio ad paedo yet again, Crowls. Would you ever give it a rest? Not content with quoting nonsense from Jim Cusick about Lehmans, you're here giving Buffy a reacharound. Must all posts contain references to child abuse?

[People Korps]

They can indeed resign.

Perhaps you could explain how that would affect the block grant coming from westminster.

If you read back and try to engage your brain, you'd realise the siuations are not comparable.

Yet I think you already know that, hence my belief this thread is nothing but a hatchet job.

I am sorry, are you trying to say that thye Tories have dSF over a barrel and will stop funding them and their flock if SF dont do waht they say?

Do SF have any principles at all? Surely political choices must be balanced against political ideals?
If they dont oppose cuts in the North then why oppose them in the outh and if they do oppose cuts then why not resign from Stormont and ramp up the pressure on the Tories ?
It is clear that NI is not a cost effective area but it can be rendered way less cost effective if the Tory lackies pulled out of government on a point of principle.
Do they have any principles or beliefs at all ?

You screaming hatchet job is an attempt to silence debate and or points that show your boys in a bad light.

[People Korps]

Red
uctio ad paedo yet again, Crowls. Would you ever give it a rest? Not content with quoting nonsense from Jim Cusick about Lehmans, you're here giving Buffy a reacharound. Must all posts contain references to child abuse?

Well the thread is about SF Hypocrisy so C is quite entitled to bring in the priests and the brother and the da

[People Korps]

[quote=John McMahon;102990]

What has this post got to do with SF and the cuts ? If you want to discuss the evils of Protestantism, perhaps you would start a thread in the Religion forum :)

I was responding to a point raised by John Mc

[Cáthasaigh]

Reductio ad paedo yet again, Crowls. Would you ever give it a rest? Not content with quoting nonsense from Jim Cusick about Lehmans, you're here giving Buffy a reacharound. Must all posts contain references to child abuse?

Never read Jim Cusack about Lehman's, was told that by a former Ard Comhairle member long before anything was in the press. The Smith analogy was an appropriate indication of the trustworthyness of PSF and their paedo-compromised leader. It might make unpleasent reading but reality isn't pretty.

[People Korps]

Never read Jim Cusack about Lehman's, was told that by a former Ard Comhairle member long before anything was in the press. The Smith analogy was an appropriate indication of the trustworthyness of PSF and their paedo-compromised leader. It might make unpleasent reading but reality isn't pretty.

RUC and Kincora should be mentioned too?

[Cáthasaigh]

RUC and Kincora should be mentioned too?

It appears that manipulation of sexual secrecy/deviancy/crime was a tool of ensnarement and control exercised by the British across the political spectrum in the 6.

[People Korps]

It appears that manipulation of sexual secrecy/deviancy/crime was a tool of ensnarement and control exercised by the British across the political spectrum in the 6.

I agree 100%
a weapon used to great effect across the political divide. I wonder why Kincora is so rarely mentioned these days?

[Cáthasaigh]

I agree 100%
a weapon used to great effect across the political divide. I wonder why Kincora is so rarely mentioned these days?

You would wonder why apparent enemies of the British intelligence services, such as PSF, aren't shouting from the rooftops for an inquiry. Another example of manipulated hypocrisy?

[People Korps]

You would wonder why apparent enemies of the British intelligence services, such as PSF, aren't shouting from the rooftops for an inquiry. Another example of manipulated hypocrisy?

I was about to mention the fact that there was no public inquiry, .....good point again C. PSF's silence is deafening :)

[parrhesiast]

It appears that manipulation of sexual secrecy/deviancy/crime was a tool of ensnarement and control exercised by the British across the political spectrum in the 6.

"the British" what exactly? Define your terms: "the British" is a meaningless generalisation.

Regards,
Peter

[moss]

I am sorry, are you trying to say that thye Tories have dSF over a barrel and will stop funding them and their flock if SF dont do waht they say?

I sais nothing of the sort. Perhaps you'd like to quote the part of my post that made you think I did. Considering I never mentioned funding I'd imagine you will struggle, as you have been through this whole sorry thread.


Do SF have any principles at all? Surely political choices must be balanced against political ideals?
If they dont oppose cuts in the North then why oppose them in the outh and if they do oppose cuts then why not resign from Stormont and ramp up the pressure on the Tories ?
It is clear that NI is not a cost effective area but it can be rendered way less cost effective if the Tory lackies pulled out of government on a point of principle.
Do they have any principles or beliefs at all ?

How would the shinners pulling out of the 6C administration prevent the tory cuts.

This is after all the main thrust of your 'argument' re hypocricy.


You screaming hatchet job is an attempt to silence debate and or points that show your boys in a bad light.

They aint my boys and no points you have raised have shown any hypocricy on their part re cuts.

I'm trying to have a reasoned debate. It's obvious that is the last thing on your mind.

[moss]

The Brits are part of the IMF bailout and stand to gain significantly from the leveraged buyout. PSF are the British policy/interest party with a habit of promising never to do things they have already decided to do.

Nothing really I'd disagree with there, except to say, actually repeat, that they are the only major party in the 26C that are opposing the IMF and the 4 year plan.

Will they stick to their word ? I'd certainly have my doubts.

Do people in the 26C have any other viable alternative at present ?

Not to my mind.

[Cáthasaigh]

"the British" what exactly? Define your terms: "the British" is a meaningless generalisation.

Regards,
Peter

When I say the British I generally mean the British establishment/administration, their armed forces and intelligence services. I had just been speaking about British intelligence in the previous post. PM me if you're unsure in the future and I'll draw you a diagram, in crayon.

[Cáthasaigh]

Nothing really I'd disagree with there, except to say, actually repeat, that they are the only major party in the 26C that are opposing the IMF and the 4 year plan.

Will they stick to their word ? I'd certainly have my doubts.

Do people in the 26C have any other viable alternative at present ?

Not to my mind.

There's a viable alternative alright but it'll not be found amongst the politicians.

[parrhesiast]

When I say the British I generally mean the British establishment/administration, their armed forces and intelligence services. I had just been speaking about British intelligence in the previous post. PM me if you're unsure in the future and I'll draw you a diagram, in crayon.

Perhaps then you'd be kind enough to indulge me by getting out your crayon and drawing me a more precise picture of this abstract entity you refer to as "the British establishment/administration, their armed forces and intelligence services"; show me its various extents / interfaces; and how, and where, and why, or not, as the case may be, all the various parts interact and function; because frankly I still have no idea whatsoever what "the British" means. Is it perhaps some catchphrase? Help me out on this please.
Regards,
Peter

[Lá an Lúbáin]

Never read Jim Cusack about Lehman's, was told that by a former Ard Comhairle member long before anything was in the press. The Smith analogy was an appropriate indication of the trustworthyness of PSF and their paedo-compromised leader. It might make unpleasent reading but reality isn't pretty.

Aye, right, an Ard Comhairle member told ye? I'm sure. That's just horse5hit and you know it. The story originated in Cusack's imagination. Everyone knows that Adams has many questions to answer as far as his brother is concerned but in nearly every post no matter how unrelated it is, you're ranting on about paedo this and paedo that. Give it a rest. If i want to read about child abuse, I'll read one of Andrew49's excellent threads on the topic. You're just using child abuse to sling mud as is apparent from most of your posts.

[moss]

There's a viable alternative alright but it'll not be found amongst the politicians.

Yeah, just not for those wishing to vote in the up coming 26C elections that oppose cuts and the IMF intervention.

[Cáthasaigh]

Aye, right, an Ard Comhairle member told ye? I'm sure. That's just horse5hit and you know it. The story originated in Cusack's imagination. Everyone knows that Adams has many questions to answer as far as his brother is concerned but in nearly every post no matter how unrelated it is, you're ranting on about paedo this and paedo that. Give it a rest. If i want to read about child abuse, I'll read one of Andrew49's excellent threads on the topic. You're just using child abuse to sling mud as is apparent from most of your posts.

Former AC member with extensive international operational experience. I mention paedos where PSF are concerned because I believe that the party is tainted with paedo protection and the manipulation of this by British intelligence. It might just be one of the key factors in the handling of Adams who is very likely one of the more senior British agents Denis Donaldson was outted to protect.

[C. Flower]

There are a lot of questions to be asked about how that child abuse was dealt with, but not in such a way as it derails all other SF issues.

Please everyone take care not to drag threads off topic. Please take complaints to Mods.

[parrhesiast]

Former AC member with extensive international operational experience. I mention paedos where PSF are concerned because I believe that the party is tainted with paedo protection and the manipulation of this by British intelligence. It might just be one of the key factors in the handling of Adams who is very likely one of the more senior British agents Denis Donaldson was outted to protect.

With the greatest respect and apologies to all for perhaps being off-topic I do feel morally obliged to pursue this matter further; Cathasaigh, you have not answered my query concerning this idea you seem almost possessed with and that you call "the British".

The fact is all that is real is strictly individual. General conceptions such as "the British" do not express the nature of things, they express only men's (subjective) thoughts about them. Can you name the actual individuals you are thinking of who go to make up this "the British" entity of yours? Of course you can't! So instead of giving us names you bunch together a great corpus of individuals, none of whom you know or have ever met or come into contact with, tar them with a brush you call "the British" and expect us to treat your words as somehow meaningful, and full of sense.

I read somewhere on the forum recently something to the effect that--and I can't now recall the exact words--We ought to be trying to get rid of the 'nudge and a wink' mentality that has dominated the political life of this island for so long; it would be a good thing perhaps if some of us started by trying to frame their thoughts more clearly, avoiding especially vague misconceived ideas, and overused commonplaces.

Let us be clear about this, general conceptions are only fictions of thought. Horses and men are seen; not, however, the conception of a horse or a man. I cannot see anything when you speak of "the British"--or "the Irish" for that matter. I don't know "the British" or "the Irish" I only know a few individuals. As far as I'm concerned "the British" could be a species of spider--but of course it isn't. It's something of enormous and unfathomable complexity--too big for any head to get around. My advice? Keep things simple.

Regards,
Peter

[Cáthasaigh]

are you posting from HMP Maghaberry?

I don't think they have computers or internet in there. Thankfully I've never been near the place.

[People Korps]

[QUOTE=Lifeisagame;102916]

"I live in a country that is suffering and I do not need bigots or in the case of Political Pretenders to come here and tell us what to do."

I have not told you what to do. Please remember that this thread is about Sinn Fein behaviour in Northern Ireland.

Over the years, Eire politicians and journalists have been very good at lecturing us on what to do in our own province.

a) Conor Cruise O'Brien lectured the SDLP about its policy on the RUC while, on the Late, Late Show the then leader of the Labour Party lectured Sinn Fein on its policy on the PSNI.

b) Eire politicians and journalists have even dared to reprimand Ulster Catholics about our voting behaviour. e.g. Paddy Cooney, Brendan O'Connor, Kevin Myers, Eoghan Harris.

c) Two Eire journalists (Ruth Dudley Edwards and Declan Lynch) dared to reprimand John Hume for saying that Ulster Protestants had the same mentality as white South Africans.

d) Two Eire politicians (The then mayor of Limerick, Mrs Terry Kelly and Austin Deasy TD) reprimanded the late Cardinal O'Fiach for not condemning Catholics who vote Sinn Fein.

e) In September 1979 Garret Fitzgerald went behind the backs of Ulster Catholics to lobby the Pope about integrated education in Northern Ireland.

f) Ruari Quinn and Liz McManus came to the north to electioneer for the SDLP. It did not do the SDLP much good.

If you do not want Catholics of Northern Ireland interfering in your political life, first keep your own people out of the politics of Northern Ireland.

"In other words mind your own damn bigotted business."

Excellent advice. Please take your own advice.

"I am not interested in yours and never was, am proud of that."

If you are not interested, why have you posted on a thread which is about Sinn Fein behaviour in Northern Ireland? Please be consistent. I firmly believe that you Staters talk first and think later - that is, if you think at all.

Practise what you preach. And tell your politicians and journalists and clergy (all of them) to keep their Free State noses out of the politics of Northern Ireland. We need no sermons from those who abandoned us in 1921 and who stood idly by in August 1969.

Seán South was born in Limerick where he was educated at Sexton Street Christian Brothers School, later working as a clerk in a local wood-importing company called Mc Mahon's....da de da da da de

[John McMahon]

[quote=John McMahon;102982]

Seán South was born in Limerick where he was educated at Sexton Street Christian Brothers School, later working as a clerk in a local wood-importing company called Mc Mahon's....da de da da da de

What has that to do with the topic of this thread. Please maintain focus. Anyway, I have nothing in common with Sean South or any other United Irelander.

[People Korps]

[quote=People Korps;103270]

What has that to do with the topic of this thread. Please maintain focus. Anyway, I have nothing in common with Sean South or any other United Irelander.

A southerner interfering in your politics John! get up to speed pls. Should Sean have stayed in Limerick?

[C. Flower]

Please reply to the points made in posts. Jibes/abuse at other members will be deleted from this thread without prior warning :)

[parrhesiast]

Please reply to the points made in posts. Jibes/abuse at other members will be deleted from this thread without prior warning :)

Hi Cactus!

I was surfing the PW forum this morning and came across a post from John McMahon which I cannot now find. I wanted to respond to it, you see, but had other matters to deal with at the time. I'm almost certain it was on this thread, something to the effect that us folks here in the South were renowned for our moralising--words to that effect. I know it was some sort of personal dig at me but I have no problem with that--seeing as I am in possession, as it were, of the (metaphorical) 'Wand of Hermes' and thus able to (again metaphorically speaking) turn all to gold.

I wanted to make a couple of points to John. I am assuming, correct me if I'm wrong, that John dreams of a United Ireland. That's fine so far as it goes which is not far enough for me (and other cosmopolites) for I dream of a United World. I want to see the end of all borders--which are arbitrary and artificial--and the riddance of all nation-states; the difference between us, John, is that you are a 'small' anarchist whilst I am a 'big' anarchist. (That's assuming of course that you wish to see a United Ireland.)

Now look at the inconsistency of Sinn Fein's position for they want to see a United Ireland--which makes them small or petty anarchists, like yourself; but then these self-same anarchists are opposed to a United Europe!--which is only a bigger form of this very same anarchy they (no doubt unwittingly) espouse! A United Europe is merely another form of anarchy en route to the eventual goal of total anarchy, in which all people morally govern themselves.

The other point I wanted to make was to draw your attention to the Roman moralists, Seneca, and Epictetus. Seneca's Moral Epistles are well worth reading: they open the mind to entirely new horizons. Epictetus was a slave before he became a Cynic-Stoic philosopher and if you want some rewarding reading I suggest you look at his Diatribes or Enchiridion which will change your life and thinking.

I have a beautiful little poetical paraphrase of the latter in my possession which was written by a Northerner, Ellis Walker, and published in 1697; here are the opening words in his Dedication to his Uncle in York:
"When I fled to you for shelter at the breaking out of the present troubles in Ireland, I took Epictetus for my companion; and found, that both I and my friend were welcome. You were then pleased to express an high esteem for the author, as he very well deserves it. You praised his notions as great, noble, and sublime, and much exceeding the pitch of other thinkers" etc., etc., etc..

Suffice to say I recommend this work of Epictetus to you most heartily; and am confident that after having read it you will never again look down on the fabulous power that is right morals.

Regards,
Peter

[truth.ie]

The only point I would make is that SF are the only main party that are saying that they would not 'be the IMF cutting lapdogs' in the 26C.
I don't recall them making the same claims re cuts in the 6C. They couldn't as they have no power to prevent it.
The situations are in no way comparable.

This thread is a hatchet job and nothing else.

If people want to keep out the IMF then the SP, ULA and SF are their only options.
Saying they will oppose IMF cuts in the 26 counties does not necessarioly mean that they will.
They also said they we're entering Stormont to destroy it from within.
I've no doubt if the SDLP we're in Govt in the North, and imposing these cuts, Sinn Fein would chaining themselves to Stormonts gates.
But as they are in power...well,.... thats politics

[moss]

Saying they will oppose IMF cuts in the 26 counties does not necessarioly mean that they will.
They also said they we're entering Stormont to destroy it from within.
I've no doubt if the SDLP we're in Govt in the North, and imposing these cuts, Sinn Fein would chaining themselves to Stormonts gates.
But as they are in power...well,.... thats politics

Yeah I imagine you could be correct there.

Still, as I've posted before, they are the only major party in the 26C that are actually opposing the cuts and intervention.

Why not put it up to them ?

[truth.ie]

Yeah I imagine you could be correct there.

Still, as I've posted before, they are the only major party in the 26C that are actually opposing the cuts and intervention.

Why not put it up to them ?
Because I don't believe or trust them?

[moss]

Because I don't believe or trust them?


Neither here nor there whether you do or not.

Do you oppose the cuts and IMF intervention ?

If you do, they are the only major party that agree with you.

I'm finding it difficult to see how the anti shinners fail to see that. They won't get my vote in the 6C, but as I've stated (pun intended) before, the 6C was sold long ago.

Are there politicians you do trust truth ?

[truth.ie]

Neither here nor there whether you do or not.

Do you oppose the cuts and IMF intervention ?

If you do, they are the only major party that agree with you.

I'm finding it difficult to see how the anti shinners fail to see that. They won't get my vote in the 6C, but as I've stated (pun intended) before, the 6C was sold long ago.

Are there politicians you do trust truth ?
I would probably go for an Independant candidate who best put forward my views. But more than likely, I'll simply not vote.
Sinn Fein are diametrically opposed to my views, and vice versa, so I wouldn't vote for them at all. There are also some deep, personal reasons for not voting for them. Probably ever.
Don't forget they too voted FOR the bank bailout, when other T.Ds voted against.
The 26 Counties was also sold long ago btw. Thats if it ever was Sovereign.

[moss]

I would probably go for an Independant candidate who best put forward my views. But more than likely, I'll simply not vote.
Sinn Fein are diametrically opposed to my views, and vice versa, so I wouldn't vote for them at all. There are also some deep, personal reasons for not voting for them. Probably ever.
Don't forget they too voted FOR the bank bailout, when other T.Ds voted against.
The 26 Counties was also sold long ago btw. Thats if it ever was Sovereign.


I'm pretty tired of posters avoiding the points I make tbh.

I agree with much of what you say, especially the last line.

But still your personal reasons are clouding your view to the extent you'll not respond to my post.

Try reading what I posted.

[Cáthasaigh]

I'm pretty tired of posters avoiding the points I make tbh.

I agree with much of what you say, especially the last line.

But still your personal reasons are clouding your view to the extent you'll not respond to my post.

Try reading what I posted.

Truth avoided nothing, he has consistently outlined how PSF are not to be trusted given their past history. They don't have principles, instead they throw shapes; stating what will appeal to the radical community and then doing the complete opposite when offered the merest foible of power and influence.

PSF are the epitomy of politcal whores and they will be sure to prostrate themselves to whatever the establishment wills should they get elected. They are nothing more than a compromised and handled release valve in this election. Unfortunately many will misplace their trust in them and get nothing more than rebranded land agents/gombíns.

[moss]

Truth avoided nothing, he has consistently outlined how PSF are not to be trusted given their past history. They don't have principles, instead they throw shapes; stating what will appeal to the radical community and then doing the complete opposite when offered the merest foible of power and influence.

PSF are the epitomy of politcal whores and they will be sure to prostrate themselves to whatever the establishment wills should they get elected. They are nothing more than a compromised and handled release valve in this election. Unfortunately many will misplace their trust in them and get nothing more than rebranded land agents/gombíns.


Balls.
Truth avoided the whole point of my post.

Yeah you and truth may well be right, and I've voiced pretty much identical reservations.

None of what either of you have posted have dealt with my point.

They appear to be the only alternative, in respect of where people votes go.

If some one that wishes to vote in the 26C upcoming election and opposes the cuts and IMF intervention, what is the alternative ?
No other major party has this line.

I've also posted before that people can test SF with this election, though tbh I see no desire from them to be a major player.
Sniping from the side lines seems to be their preferred tactic. That's pretty poor.

When the anti sinners hook up with a pretendy anarchist, pro EU wankstain that's really a FFer, I'd suggest a rethink.

[Lá an Lúbáin]

I'll happily vote SF in the forthcoming elections, not because I'm ignorant of any previous but because a good number of seats will send the D4ers bananas. I have neither a poefaced detestation, or an unforgiving rabid hatred, of them.

[Cáthasaigh]

I'll happily vote SF in the forthcoming elections, not because I'm ignorant of any previous but because a good number of seats will send the D4ers bananas. I have neither a poefaced detestation, or an unforgiving rabid hatred, of them.

So you're not an Irish Republican, fair enough. Up the pervies!.

[Cáthasaigh]

None of what either of you have posted have dealt with my point.

They appear to be the only alternative, in respect of where people votes go.


Nah ourboy, Truth and myself both get the point and you miss it completely. PSF's role in the coming election is to appear to be an alternative. Smoke and mirrors, sleight of hand; Adamsism distilled.

[Lá an Lúbáin]

So you're not an Irish Republican, fair enough. Up the pervies!.

Who are you to decide who is republican and who is not? Commandant Tom Maguire? Mother Ireland? Everyone who knows anybody in SF or is on friendly terms with them is somehow in your warped view a traitor. It's a bit sad but you go hating all those people you're trying to convince of the righteouness of your views. See how it works out for you.

[moss]

Nah ourboy, Truth and myself both get the point and you miss it completely. PSF's role in the coming election is to appear to be an alternative. Smoke and mirrors, sleight of hand; Adamsism distilled.

Truth suggested independents, you a revolution.

If either is on the cards count me in. In reality truth is suggesting something possible in some constituencies.

But if not, then what ?

Claiming you have a crystal ball is pretty poor.

Have you and PK got to first base yet ?

[C. Flower]

Yeah I imagine you could be correct there.

Still, as I've posted before, they are the only major party in the 26C that are actually opposing the cuts and intervention.

Why not put it up to them ?

I agree with you moss, but they are so close to FF politically that I think they would not be against a FF SF coalition, and voters would need to know one way or the other.
When Gerry Adams was asked about this earlier in the year, he would not rule out an FF/SF coalition. SF has recently ruled out FG/FF. SF was supported by FF at a critical stage in its early history ("Lost Revolution" describes it).

All in all, a vote for SF may turn out to be a vote for FF. I would still vote SF, if it was the best on offer where I vote. But it looks like SP will stand - I have no great confidence there either, but as you say, "why not put it up to them"?.

[Lá an Lúbáin]

I agree with you moss, but they are so close to FF politically that I think they would not be against a FF SF coalition, and voters would need to know one way or the other.
When Gerry Adams was asked about this earlier in the year, he would not rule out an FF/SF coalition. SF has recently ruled out FG/FF. SF was supported by FF at a critical stage in its early history ("Lost Revolution" describes it).

All in all, a vote for SF may turn out to be a vote for FF. I would still vote SF, if it was the best on offer where I vote. But it looks like SP will stand - I have no great confidence there either, but as you say, "why not put it up to them"?.

Or for FG or Lab or UlA. That's the ultimate bummer, but as Barker said in Porridge, 'these little victories' and by that I mean taking out people I presently despise more than SF, why not?

[moss]

I agree with you moss, but they are so close to FF politically that I think they would not be against a FF SF coalition, and voters would need to know one way or the other.
When Gerry Adams was asked about this earlier in the year, he would not rule out an FF/SF coalition. SF has recently ruled out FG/FF. SF was supported by FF at a critical stage in its early history ("Lost Revolution" describes it).

All in all, a vote for SF may turn out to be a vote for FF. I would still vote SF, if it was the best on offer where I vote. But it looks like SP will stand - I have no great confidence there either, but as you say, "why not put it up to them"?.

Pearse Doherty when interviewed by VB last week, standing beside that bearded muppet from FG, danced round the question of whether or not SF would enter a coalition with FG. A very guarded no that can be explained away should the need arise.

I don't trust them.

But still it boils down to what the alternative is for those that wish to vote in the 26C election.

I say put it up to them.

Unfortunately I don't think they want to rise to the challenge


More tea ?

[C. Flower]

Pearse Doherty when interviewed by VB last week, standing beside that bearded muppet from FG, danced round the question of whether or not SF would enter a coalition with FG. A very guarded no that can be explained away should the need arise.

I don't trust them.

But still it boils down to what the alternative is for those that wish to vote in the 26C election.

I say put it up to them.

Unfortunately I don't think they want to rise to the challenge

More tea ?

I think the challenge they would rise to is to be ready to put people back in their box, should they rise to what Sam Lord calls " a real fightback". In the meantime, the best thing to do is put the pressure on by putting them up to it.

But I wouldn't canvass for them.

[Cáthasaigh]

Who are you to decide who is republican and who is not? Commandant Tom Maguire? Mother Ireland? Everyone who knows anybody in SF or is on friendly terms with them is somehow in your warped view a traitor. It's a bit sad but you go hating all those people you're trying to convince of the righteouness of your views. See how it works out for you.

Those who endorse or enforce British rule and/or accept the legitimacy of any arm of the British crown forces as a rightful or lawful authority in Ireland cannot be considered Irish Republicans. It's not rocket science ourboy.

[Cáthasaigh]

Truth suggested independents, you a revolution.

If either is on the cards count me in. In reality truth is suggesting something possible in some constituencies.

But if not, then what ?

Claiming you have a crystal ball is pretty poor.

Have you and PK got to first base yet ?

If PK was actually as clever as he thinks he is he would know the reality of the PSF illusion and would be urging their support (to uphold the status quo).

[moss]

I think the challenge they would rise to is to be ready to put people back in their box, should they rise to what Sam Lord calls " a real fightback". In the meantime, the best thing to do is put the pressure on by putting them up to it.

But I wouldn't canvass for them.

I've been accused before about having a lack of patience.

My view is that if SF, the ULA or SP are aiming for 4 years of 'real fightback' opposition, then they are aiming for 4 years of IMF intervention and cuts.

I'd have hoped from more from SF by now tbh with a favourable wind behind them.

The more they resist, or at least ignore, forming alliances with groups and partys with an immediate similar goal, the less I trust them.

On the other hand, Ireland has waited 95 years for serious positive social change. Even then we said no.

[whydontwe]

Ok...so maybe I'm lazy-minded.....but, well, aren't they all hypocrites....I mean...really...really....does any on trust any of 'em ...or their families...or their friends...REALLY ??

[moss]

If PK was actually as clever as he thinks he is he would know the reality of the PSF illusion and would be urging their support (to uphold the status quo).


Which is what he has been doing (supporting the establishment) in setting up this thread, all the while holding your hand.

I'd feel dirty if I was you.

[Cáthasaigh]

Which is what he has been doing (supporting the establishment) in setting up this thread, all the while holding your hand.

I'd feel dirty if I was you.

You see neither he nor you realise that a vote for PSF is a vote for the establishment. He's still caught up in the illusion of condemnation which triggers your conditioned response.

The key is to step back and see it for what it is. PSF in govt on both sides of the border is British wet dream.

[moss]

I'm pretty tired of posters avoiding the points I make tbh.


You see neither he nor you realise that a vote for PSF is a vote for the establishment. He's still caught up in the illusion of condemnation which triggers your conditioned response.

The key is to step back and see it for what it is. PSF in govt on both sides of the border is British wet dream.

I'm getting bored now.

If people vote they are voting for the establishment.
We both know that.

You hate SF above everything else. Anyone reading this site knows that.

There is very little by way of an alternative if you oppose the IMF intervention.


SF may well let their voters down, but a vote for anyone else is a vote for cuts and intervention.

Get over yourself and open your eyes. Blind hatred is seriously debilitating.

[Cáthasaigh]

I'm getting bored now.

If people vote they are voting for the establishment.
We both know that.

You hate SF above everything else. Anyone reading this site knows that.

There is very little by way of an alternative if you oppose the IMF intervention.


SF may well let their voters down, but a vote for anyone else is a vote for cuts and intervention.

Get over yourself and open your eyes. Blind hatred is seriously debilitating.

You're telling me to open my eyes, you're not bad craic. I've been telling people to open their eyes and wake up all along. A vote for some bollocksology party will make no difference, people need to want to make the difference themselves. It's always been the case, nothing has changed since the days of the Fenians and before; the sleeping masses are conditioned to sneer at the illuminated by those who profit from their illusions.

[Lá an Lúbáin]

Those who endorse or enforce British rule and/or accept the legitimacy of any arm of the British crown forces as a rightful or lawful authority in Ireland cannot be considered Irish Republicans. It's not rocket science ourboy.

But you read a vote for SF in the upcoming elections as that. That is your opinion. Not fact. I enforce nothing. I'm no more happy with a talking shop in Belfast than you are but did you ever hear about voting for the least worst option when a vote is available to you. Unionists take some pleasure in this activity in South Down and about 3000 stoopers in your own backyard did the same when they voted for Gildernew. It's an all-ireland sport. Or do you just press the denunciation button because they don't measure up to your impeccable standards, whatever they are. So you can cry lundy at me til the cow comes home and litter your posts with pathetic references to child abuse, and regard them as valid points but it demeans you more than me. Voting SF in the next election won't change much, on that I'd agree, but If I can give a kick to those that I'm more opposed to then so be it, it's only a short dander to the polling booth. Don't know if I could do it in Louth but SF should throw Ó Searcaigh on the ticket to give non-beard potential voters the option.

[moss]

You're telling me to open my eyes, you're not bad craic. I've been telling people to open their eyes and wake up all along. A vote for some bollocksology party will make no difference, people need to want to make the difference themselves. It's always been the case, nothing has changed since the days of the Fenians and before; the sleeping masses are conditioned to sneer at the illuminated by those who profit from their illusions.

Actually it may make a difference.

Your ABSF is a vote for partys that will implement and are calling for the IMF intervention.

It's really not hard to understand.

Perhaps you and PK have been doing more than holding hands ?

[Cáthasaigh]

Don't know if I could do it in Louth but SF should throw Ó Searcaigh on the ticket to give non-beard potential voters the option.

No need to cast the net so far, Liam and quite a few others would suffice. It's not the first time you have thrown a hissy fit over criticism of the perversionals which cut too close to the bone.

What's the Gaeilge for snake in the grass?

[Cáthasaigh]

Actually it may make a difference.

Your ABSF is a vote for partys that will implement and are calling for the IMF intervention.

It's really not hard to understand.

Perhaps you and PK have been doing more than holding hands ?

No Moss, my message isn't ABSF; it's None of the scum including PSF.......revolt!

[moss]

No need to cast the net so far, Liam and quite a few others would suffice. It's not the first time you have thrown a hissy fit over criticism of the perversionals which cut too close to the bone.

What's the Gaeilge for snake in the grass?


GMcH was a perversioal was he ??

Catch a grip lad.

[Lá an Lúbáin]

You're telling me to open my eyes, you're not bad craic. I've been telling people to open their eyes and wake up all along. A vote for some bollocksology party will make no difference, people need to want to make the difference themselves. It's always been the case, nothing has changed since the days of the Fenians and before; the sleeping masses are conditioned to sneer at the illuminated by those who profit from their illusions.

But neither myself nor the moss, I believe , are deluded or think SF is anything other than what they are or what they could become if they go into government with whoever. I've got a very small chance to influence events with my vote and take a little dump on whoever I chose to vote against.

[moss]

No Moss, my message isn't ABSF; it's None of the scum including PSF.......revolt!

Well it is actually and you know it. But I certainly agree with the final sentiment.

Not often I'm 100% correct. But I am this time.

A vote for FG/FF/Lab is a vote for the IMF intervention and cuts.

[Cáthasaigh]

But neither myself nor the moss, I believe , are deluded or think SF is anything other than what they are or what they could become if they go into government with whoever. I've got a very small chance to influence events with my vote and take a little dump on whoever I chose to vote against.

The illusion of a self righteous shyte on something......That'll really make a difference.

Jesus' tissues are sponsored by Kleenex.

[Cáthasaigh]

Well it is actually and you know it. But I certainly agree with the final sentiment.

Not often I'm 100% correct. But I am this time.

A vote for FG/FF/Lab is a vote for the IMF intervention and cuts.

You imply that I would agree with a vote for any of those scum. FFS vote for none of them and take the power back!

[moss]

But neither myself nor the moss, I believe , are deluded or think SF is anything other than what they are or what they could become if they go into government with whoever. I've got a very small chance to influence events with my vote and take a little dump on whoever I chose to vote against.

A quick read of this thread will show several posts where I've stated I don't trust them.

Your 'least worst option' sums up my feelings perfectly.

Mr C does have one valid point.

Only a revolution will change things. SF as the least worst option is a poor show for 'democracy'

[Lá an Lúbáin]

No need to cast the net so far, Liam and quite a few others would suffice. It's not the first time you have thrown a hissy fit over criticism of the perversionals which cut too close to the bone.

What's the Gaeilge for snake in the grass?

I'm a sleeper for MFI. How did it take such a master sleuth like yourself so long to root out the tout. You're utterly deluded, man, and moss is right. You are completely blinded by hate for anyone that has the remotest connection to SF or disagrees with even the most non-sensical rants against them.

And I did previously disagree with you about the exact same topic that has you off screaming traitors and sell out.

It's to do with the belittling of child abuse by way of using it as a political mud slinging exercise, again and again and again. But you can't look at that as a straight forward criticism. Adams is answerable for his actions or lack of them in relation to his brother. I'm not. And voting for SF candidates in the upcoming election does not make me an enabler. It makes me a voter.

[Cáthasaigh]

And voting for SF candidates in the upcoming election does not make me an enabler. It makes me a voter.

It would make you a gaunch at the very, very best.

[moss]

You imply that I would agree with a vote for any of those scum. FFS vote for none of them and take the power back!

Read back.

I've been saying since this hatchet job of a thread started that a vote for anyone else is a vote for those 3 scum.

SF have said they'll oppose intervention. FG/FF/Lab will not.

If you are against intervention then give them a vote.

Again I agree with your sentiment about reclaiming power, but we both know that won't happen at the ballot box.
We are discussing electoral politics here.

[Lá an Lúbáin]

The illusion of a self righteous shyte on something......That'll really make a difference.

Jesus' tissues are sponsored by Kleenex.

Nothing self-righteous about it. Just tired of reading the same post. Even your retorts are now completely lacking in humour where once I could have enjoyed a chuckle.

[moss]

self righteous
That did make me laugh.
Catch a tighter grip there lad.

[Cáthasaigh]

Read back.

I've been saying since this hatchet job of a thread started that a vote for anyone else is a vote for those 3 scum.

SF have said they'll oppose intervention. FG/FF/Lab will not.

If you are against intervention then give them a vote.

Again I agree with your sentiment about reclaiming power, but we both know that won't happen at the ballot box.
We are discussing electoral politics here.

There is no difference in a vote for PSF than a vote for the rest of the scum. That's the point.....none of the above!

Anyway it's blackeye Friday and Walk the Line is on TV. Oiche mhaith!

[moss]

There is no difference in a vote for PSF than a vote for the rest of the scum. That's the point.....none of the above!

Anyway it's blackeye Friday and Walk the Line is on TV. Oiche mhaith!


Jesus are ya blind and deaf man ?

There is a difference, that's the main point I've been trying to make. You may not trust them, but there is a fecking massive difference.

Enjoy your night mate.

[C. Flower]

Truth suggested independents, you a revolution.

If either is on the cards count me in. In reality truth is suggesting something possible in some constituencies.

But if not, then what ?

Claiming you have a crystal ball is pretty poor.

Have you and PK got to first base yet ?

People are not yet ready to see that a cross border revolution is needed before anything fundamental will change. But the cuts won't stay at the current level, because the UK is grossly indebted and not able any longer to maintain provinces with year on year bailouts. One thing for sure is that things are going to change.

There is a move in the S. electorate at this moment to support SF. From what I see, it is a repetition of the pattern of looking for a strong local leader to whom we can sell our votes. It's nothing much to do with revolution and it seems to be focused mostly on one individual. SF is a clean, new version of SF. I agree with moss that the right thing to do its support SF, to allow people to test them out. But ultimately, they are not interested in the news that profit based production is at the end of the line and they'll dig the heels in for the status quo. So, I would support them on that temporary basis.

[RedSunRising]

The key is to step back and see it for what it is. PSF in govt on both sides of the border is British wet dream.

No its not....People vote for PSF in the occupied northern in a large degree out of sectarianish wanting things for "their" community. Also Stormount is a joke in terms of its actual power and people in the 26 counties realize that. Their voting for PSF means something different than in the north. A strong PSF south or west of the border is not something that Britain wants. They are politicians and will have pressure on them without the secuirity that they have in the six counties because of sectarianism.

[moss]

No its not....People vote for PSF in the occupied northern in a large degree out of sectarianish wanting things for "their" community. Also Stormount is a joke in terms of its actual power and people in the 26 counties realize that. Their voting for PSF means something different than in the north. A strong PSF south or west of the border is not something that Britain wants. They are politicians and will have pressure on them without the secuirity that they have in the six counties because of sectarianism.


That's the thing though and what annoyed me about this hatchet job thread.

Whether we like it or not, there are 2 jurisdictions on this island and they aren't comparable in a political sense.

One is occupied and the other up for sale.

[C. Flower]

That's the thing though and what annoyed me about this hatchet job thread.

Whether we like it or not, there are 2 jurisdictions on this island and they aren't comparable in a political sense.

One is occupied and the other up for sale.


Sold.

[Sam Lord]

A strong PSF south or west of the border is not something that Britain wants.

I would have to disagree with this 110%. They stand for nothing that threatens the status quo in any way, shape, or form. Just about every establishment political party in the country has emerged from the republican movement - SF are just the latest manifestation. They will be no different from FF or FG at the end of the day. Most anyone who would consider themselves "left" have long gone. Look at Eirigi for an example.

To say that they should be given a chance is to operate under no less an illusion that that of the multitudes in the USA who voted for Obama thinking that perhaps something might change.

[moss]

I would have to disagree with this 110%. They stand for nothing that threatens the status quo in any way, shape, or form. Just about every establishment political party in the country has emerged from the republican movement - SF are just the latest manifestation. They will be no different from FF or FG at the end of the day. Most anyone who would consider themselves "left" have long gone. Look at Eirigi for an example.

To say that they should be given a chance is to operate under no less an illusion that that of the multitudes in the USA who voted for Obama thinking that perhaps something might change.

You're writing SF of as an establishment party.

It's the republican grass roots though that form the nucleus and are looking for change. As you say, look at eirigi

Trying to liken SF to the dirty 3 is stupid at present.

There is a clear difference in policy.

[Sam Lord]

There is a clear difference in policy.

Until they get into power. Then they will get all pragmatic. I could write this script.

[moss]

Until they get into power. Then they will get all pragmatic. I could write this script.

Any chance of next weeks lottery numbers ??

[C. Flower]

You're writing SF of as an establishment party.

It's the republican grass roots though that form the nucleus and are looking for change. As you say, look at eirigi

Trying to liken SF to the dirty 3 is stupid at present.

There is a clear difference in policy.

Been there with Labour. But I'm not going to fight over it. As you say, put them up to it, But all I would say is have your alternative ready for if and when they let you down

Would you see any difference between SF and the left parties - WP, SP, SWP. or eírígí ?

[moss]

Been there with Labour. But I'm not going to fight over it. As you say, put them up to it, But all I would say is have your alternative ready for if and when they let you down

Would you see any difference between SF and the left parties - WP, SP, SWP. or eírígí ?

Yep.

I've consistently voiced those opinions. I share the views of Sam and Cath.

The mystic meg and I hate them brigade are as annoying and stupid as they are useless.

EDIT: I missed your last line.

Without doubt SF are an establishment party. The others aren't, with the exception of the WP. I don't see any difference between them.

[RedSunRising]

I would have to disagree with this 110%

The reality is that Stormount has sweet FA when it comes to power.The Dail while far from being all powerful has a lot more. Also PSF in the 26 counties are a "radicialish" Social-Democratic party while in the occupied north people vote for them who wouldnt go near them to barrage pole if they had grown up in the south. Also remember that establishment in the south hates the provies still. And last point is that its not the politicians themselves who are always important but their power base which can very easily push them into things they didnt want through the efforts to keep a grip on it.

[Lá an Lúbáin]

I 've heard enough crap from FF/FG/Lab and their media darlings dominating and writing the narrative of Ireland's story. Time for other voices in that panda bear pit. I'd give SF a first preferance followed by what ever indo or ULA rocks your boat. If SF haven't a snowballs in your area, give the indo or ULA the number one.

[People Korps]

I'd give SF a first preferance

Shock horror...surprise surprise, of course you would you are one of their spear-chuckers. Your vote however, will not make them less hypocritical nor does it make them strand out from any of the other "politicians" you might have an opportunity to vote for.
How are SF less corrupt than any other party?
How come they apply one rule in the NI ie enforcing Torie cuts without a whimper

while they chest beat in the ROI as if they have some free agenda?

[Cáthasaigh]

N A strong PSF south or west of the border is not something that Britain wants. They are politicians and will have pressure on them without the secuirity that they have in the six counties because of sectarianism.

The Brits run the PSF leadership, having them in power in the 26 would give them direct influence unseen since the 1920s.

[Cáthasaigh]

Jesus are ya blind and deaf man ?

There is a difference, that's the main point I've been trying to make. You may not trust them, but there is a fecking massive difference.

Enjoy your night mate.

The only difference between PSF and the 26C establishment parties is that PSF have yet to have the chance to engage in the grandscale fraud and larceny of a 26C administration. Their record up to now would suggest that they will take to governmental criminality like ducks to water.

[Cáthasaigh]

Nothing self-righteous about it. Just tired of reading the same post. Even your retorts are now completely lacking in humour where once I could have enjoyed a chuckle.

Shattering the illusions surrounding Britain's pet party is a serious business. There's nothing funny about criminal treason. FF sold the oil and gas for personal gain to British interests......I shudder to think what the shinners would do.

[thecat]

The Brits run the PSF leadership, having them in power in the 26 would give them direct influence unseen since the 1920s.

On one hand they were responsible for the Northern Bank robbery and the Canary Wharf bomb, on the other hand the British run them?! You're smear campaign knows no bolds in it's stupidity.

[Cáthasaigh]

On one hand they were responsible for the Northern Bank robbery and the Canary Wharf bomb, on the other hand the British run them?! You're smear campaign knows no bolds in it's stupidity.

Interestingly all the CCTV cameras on the escape route were out of order on the night of the NB robbery and Canary Wharf was a failing enterprise whose owners were facing bankruptcy prior to the compensation money.

Denis Donaldson was outted to protect agents higher up the party structure and you don't get much higher up than Donaldson was.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PRWlq_BwP2E/SBNNjfuOhnI/AAAAAAAAApY/FVtdwo8qRgk/s400/mcdonad.jpg

[thecat]

Interestingly all the CCTV cameras on the escape route were out of order on the night of the NB robbery and Canary Wharf was a failing enterprise whose owners were facing bankruptcy prior to the compensation money.

Denis Donaldson was outted to protect agents higher up the party structure and you don't get much higher up than Donaldson was.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PRWlq_BwP2E/SBNNjfuOhnI/AAAAAAAAApY/FVtdwo8qRgk/s400/mcdonad.jpg

A failed attempt to twist the facts to suit your smear tactics. It was to stop the owns from going Bankrupt! Good one! lol

[Lá an Lúbáin]

Shattering the illusions surrounding Britain's pet party is a serious business. There's nothing funny about criminal treason. FF sold the oil and gas for personal gain to British interests......I shudder to think what the shinners would do.


But you're not shattering anything. You're ranting incessantly filled with so much hate for SF that you just completely ignore what posters are saying. Anything remotely approaching positive commentary about SF is dismissed instantly and cries of 'You're not a republican '. And then you come off with utter rubbish like hinting that Canary Wharf was an insurance job between the Provos, M15 and Lloyds or some such. And then there was the imminent collapse of SF in Tyrone with all manner of provo slaying at the cumann meetings. Turned out to be complete ballix. Gildernew increased her vote by 9%. Just more hate filled wishful thinking. You've also now got a 'personal' source to stand up a Jim Cusack fairytale special which you'd never read.

I've read your posts. Enjoyed the most of them, I have to say but all you have left now is vitriol and bitter personal enmity for anyone that would dare challenge the smallest part of your argument or the manner in which you berate the same.

You and Buffy are well met. If there's not enough hate , make stuff up.

[thecat]

But you're not shattering anything. You're ranting incessantly filled with so much hate for SF that you just completely ignore what posters are saying. Anything remotely approaching positive commentary about SF is dismissed instantly and cries of 'You're not a republican '. And then you come off with utter rubbish like hinting that Canary Wharf was an insurance job between the Provos, M15 and Lloyds or some such. And then there was the imminent collapse of SF in Tyrone with all manner of provo slaying at the cumann meetings. Turned out to be complete ballix. Gildernew increased her vote by 9%. Just more hate filled wishful thinking. You've also now got a 'personal' source to stand up a Jim Cusack fairytale special which you'd never read.

I've read your posts. Enjoyed the most of them, I have to say but all you have left now is vitriol and bitter personal enmity for anyone that would dare challenge the smallest part of your argument or the manner in which you berate the same.

You and Buffy are well met. If there's not enough hate , make stuff up.

Excellent post my Friend but wait for the abuse now from him.

[Cáthasaigh]

But you're not shattering anything. You're ranting incessantly filled with so much hate for SF that you just completely ignore what posters are saying. Anything remotely approaching positive commentary about SF is dismissed instantly and cries of 'You're not a republican '. And then you come off with utter rubbish like hinting that Canary Wharf was an insurance job between the Provos, M15 and Lloyds or some such.


Olympia and York, the company which built Canary Wharf were on the point of going into receivership when the bomb went off. Fact.



And then there was the imminent collapse of SF in Tyrone with all manner of provo slaying at the cumann meetings. Turned out to be complete ballix. Gildernew increased her vote by 9%.


All this proves is that PSF are a sectarian party and as anyone who has studied Irish history can tell you sectarianism has always been Britain's main weapon against Republicanism. PSF are a British controlled vehicle for countering Irish Republicanism, there is no positive commentary applicable to them and if you don't like what I have to say don't read it; buy yourself a copy of the Andytout News instead.

[Lá an Lúbáin]

Olympia and York, the company which built Canary Wharf were on the point of going into receivership when the bomb went off. Fact.

I'm talking about what you are extrapolating from that fact. You'd have no other reason than that to mention it other than to hint at some provo/Mi5 plot to help them out




All this proves is that PSF are a sectarian party and as anyone who has studied Irish history can tell you sectarianism has always been Britain's main weapon against Republicanism. PSF are a British controlled vehicle for countering Irish Republicanism, there is no positive commentary applicable to them and if you don't like what I have to say don't read it; buy yourself a copy of the Andytout News instead.

No. It proves your apoplectic apocalyptic predictions for SF in Tyrone was nothing but hate filled wishful thinking. And keep chucking the abuse. It only further proves the point.

[thecat]

Olympia and York, the company which built Canary Wharf were on the point of going into receivership when the bomb went off. Fact.



All this proves is that PSF are a sectarian party and as anyone who has studied Irish history can tell you sectarianism has always been Britain's main weapon against Republicanism. PSF are a British controlled vehicle for countering Irish Republicanism, there is no positive commentary applicable to them and if you don't like what I have to say don't read it; buy yourself a copy of the Andytout News instead.

So it was the Brits that were laundering money in Cork? (You claimed in another thread that it was definitely the IRA)
Olympia and York controlled the IRA?
Finding it hard to keep up with the workings of you deluded mind.

[Cáthasaigh]

I'm talking about what you are extrapolating from that fact. You'd have no other reason than that to mention it other than to hint at some provo/Mi5 plot to help them out

I read a good theory on it before but can't find it at the moment.



No. It proves your apoplectic apocalyptic predictions for SF in Tyrone was nothing but hate filled wishful thinking. And keep chucking the abuse. It only further proves the point.

4 votes and a suspicion of malpractice, she came very close to being ousted. As for the 'abuse' do you not think you're being over sensitive or maybe your new found feline friend has rubbed off on you. You're keepin quare intellectual company there anyway.

[Cáthasaigh]

So it was the Brits that were laundering money in Cork? (You claimed in another thread that it was definitely the IRA)
Olympia and York controlled the IRA?
Finding it hard to keep up with the workings of you deluded mind.


http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/7a/a9/2fc9c060ada0449221259110.L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[thecat]

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/7a/a9/2fc9c060ada0449221259110.L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Yawwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnn

[Lá an Lúbáin]

I read a good theory on it before but can't find it at the moment.

A theory and like an increasing number of your theories.....




4 votes and a suspicion of malpractice, she came very close to being ousted. As for the 'abuse' do you not think you're being over sensitive or maybe your new found feline friend has rubbed off on you. You're keepin quare intellectual company there anyway.

Oh. It wasn't just in FST. You were predicting implosion all over Tyrone. It comes across like this. How can you be relied on for verifaction/validation if you are spinning a personal hate filled agenda of wishful thinking or that your political antennae are like a bad Rudolph's that hasn't a clue what's going on in your own backyard? I believe it to be the former.

I've never been sensitive and well you know it but insinuate away. I see a new conspiracy starting that I'm somehow secretly in league with 'thecat' in some fifth columnist plan that I've been hatching for years just in time to discredit you and inflate the SF vote.

I don't recall, I may be wrong, that I have replied to any of his /her posts and I rarely pm anybody or reply to them nor go whinging to the mods. I base my opinions on your contributions on what you post.

I'm still not a member of SF nor have I ever been and have no intention of joining them. But I will vote for them or indos as is appropriate and reccomend that others do likewise. Is it beyond your comprehension that somebody could vote for a party that they are not a die hard loyal fan of? The least worst option. Same for Gildernew in FST.

I've never pretended to be anything other than what I am on this forum or push fake agendas on here.

[Cáthasaigh]

Oh. It wasn't just in FST. You were predicting implosion all over Tyrone. It comes across like this. How can you be relied on for verifaction/validation if you are spinning a personal hate filled agenda of wishful thinking or that your political antennae are like a bad Rudolph's that hasn't a clue what's going on in your own backyard? I believe it to be the former.

Unfortunately their vote didn't follow the pattern that their membership did and people were without direction and cohesion. That will not be the case in the future.



I'm still not a member of SF nor have I ever been and have no intention of joining them. But I will vote for them or indos as is appropriate and reccomend that others do likewise. Is it beyond your comprehension that somebody could vote for a party that they are not a die hard loyal fan of? The least worst option. Same for Gildernew in FST.

You are still going out of your way to canvass for them and denigrate legitimate criticism of them. PSF are a corrupt cult and there is a wealth of contemporary and historical evidence to prove this fact, not theory. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that your 'least worst' theory is correct infact they could be far worse than the other shower. The 26C needs radical change and PSF are very much part of the problem rather than the solution.

[Lá an Lúbáin]

Unfortunately their vote didn't follow the pattern that their membership did and people were without direction and cohesion. That will not be the case in the future.

And back you come with the exact same analyisis that made you look like a plonker in the first place. Your verdict on the strength or weakness of SF in Tyrone is completely untrustworthy and will continue to be disregarded by myself because it was proven to be a crock and I was quite willing to give it a listen at times, more the fool me. But keep predicting SF's demise and you'll eventually be right.


You are still going out of your way to canvass for them and denigrate legitimate criticism of them. PSF are a corrupt cult and there is a wealth of contemporary and historical evidence to prove this fact, not theory. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that your 'least worst' theory is correct infact they could be far worse than the other shower. The 26C needs radical change and PSF are very much part of the problem rather than the solution.

Not going out of way at all. And instead of denigrating legitimate criticism I have spent more time fending off base insults from your goodself and your inabilty to be remotely reasonable about anyone that would intend voting SF in the upcoming election. Again the last part of your post is your opinion on future political happennings, and let's face it , it's entirely skewed, and if based on your previous rates of success in the soothsaying department, complete bollox.

[truth.ie]

Some questions for Sinn Fein.
They say there is no need to cut Public Sector wages. What will they do the reduce the deficit and stem the overspending? I've heard about cutting T.Ds wages but, although popular,thats just a drop in the ocean.
If in power in the 26 counties, will the leadership be seeking and pumping foreign investment primarily in the 26 or 6 counties?
Will they tear up the contracts with Shell concerning National resources?
Will they tear up the invitation to the Queen?
Will they end extradition agreements with Britain?
Will they shut down the Special Criminal Courts?
Will they Hell!

[truth.ie]

The only argument put forward by Moss to vote Sinn Fein was that they had made a promise, and we should "call them out."
Well, Sorry, but Fianna Fail have also said their recent hard decisions, will turn the corner and that things will improve. Should we vote for them also...just to call them out like. A ridiculous reason to vote anyone.
I'll vote based on principled leadership and trust. Like good Art, I'll know it when I see it.

[Lá an Lúbáin]

The only argument put forward by Moss to vote Sinn Fein was that they had made a promise, and we should "call them out."
Well, Sorry, but Fianna Fail have also said their recent hard decisions, will turn the corner and that things will improve. Should we vote for them also...just to call them out like. A ridiculous reason to vote anyone.
I'll vote based on principled leadership and trust. Like good Art, I'll know it when I see it.

If you're interested in convincing people not to vote SF when they intend to, do you think the best way about going about it is to aggressively tell them they're not republican?

[Kev Bar]

That's the thing though and what annoyed me about this hatchet job thread.

Whether we like it or not, there are 2 jurisdictions on this island and they aren't comparable in a political sense.

One is occupied and the other up for sale.


One is sold.
The other is paid for.
A whore.
A mistress.

The later is entirely dependant on the Queen's shilling and has been for some long that, blinded by the dazzle of the silver, it actually thinks it's worth something.

[truth.ie]

If you're interested in convincing people not to vote SF when they intend to, do you think the best way about going about it is to aggressively tell them they're not republican?
Well, Sinn Fein have labelled Republicans who oppose them as "criminals" "traitors" and much worse. When FF were riding high, a Sinn Fein T.D (O Caolain)suggested the party's militia act as a "bulwark" against separatist Republicans, in the Dail ffs! Comrades in arms with FF.
If they can throw it, they can't call foul when it's returned.

[Lá an Lúbáin]

Well, Sinn Fein have labelled Republicans who oppose them as "criminals" "traitors" and much worse. When FF were riding high, a Sinn Fein T.D (O Caolain)suggested the party's militia act as a "bulwark" against separatist Republicans, in the Dail ffs! Comrades in arms with FF.
If they can throw it, they can't call foul when it's returned.

Do you think that by accusing 'soft' SF voters , not SF members, not senior SF politicians, of not being republican will convince them not to vote SF? As far as I'm concerned, you'd surely want to convince people of the worthiness of your alternative plan by not alienating your target audience.

[Cáthasaigh]

Do you think that by accusing 'soft' SF voters , not SF members, not senior SF politicians, of not being republican will convince them not to vote SF? As far as I'm concerned, you'd surely want to convince people of the worthiness of your alternative plan by not alienating your target audience.

And yet you consistently ignore the fact that PSF are proven liars, proven infiltrated by the British, proven harbourers and enablers of paedophiles and other criminals. How can you consider such a party worthy of a vote?

[People Korps]

And yet you consistently ignore the fact that PSF are proven liars, proven infiltrated by the British, proven harbourers and enablers of paedophiles and other criminals. How can you consider such a party worthy of a vote?

Ah now C, they are in politics now, they have to balance the margins. The paedo vote, the concerns of the tories , how to stay one step ahead of the posse or some revelations, reap while the goings good, as there may not be too much time to sow. They rely on the mountainy men and the like to bolster their image and they do exactly the opposite of what they say or say they believe in.
But as this thread demonstrates when a site gets a few hits its worth a few spear-chuckers to go and sort out the dissenters

[Lá an Lúbáin]

And yet you consistently ignore the fact that PSF are proven liars, proven infiltrated by the British, proven harbourers and enablers of paedophiles and other criminals. How can you consider such a party worthy of a vote?

Again. Another thoroughly dishonest post. I haven't ignored them and you know that. I've discussed these issues on all manner of threads. A straight forward, outright lie.

Need more reason to hate? Make stuff up.

[Cáthasaigh]

Again. Another thoroughly dishonest post. I haven't ignored them and you know that. I've discussed these issues on all manner of threads. A straight forward, outright lie.

Need more reason to hate? Make stuff up.

No, you are ignoring these issues at the moment for the sake of this debate. You've consistently tried to personalise the debate in order to camoflage your support for the inexcusable. You haven't done very much political discussion on this site; until now.

[Lá an Lúbáin]

No, you are ignoring these issues at the moment for the sake of this debate. You've consistently tried to personalise the debate in order to camoflage your support for the inexcusable. You haven't done very much political discussion on this site; until now.

Personalise , you say. Does 'snake in the grass' and 'you're not a republican' ring any bells? Personalisng everything is what you specialise in and I have been largely spared it until I said I was going to vote SF which has triggered your knee-jerk hate filled lying rants. You're not spinning or misinterpreting, you're just lying. What's 'haven't done very much political discussion on this site' mean? Is there a quota? Oh, that's very suspicious. Or maybe there's an election coming up and it increases an infrequent contributor's interest. Nah, it's just another perversional plot to take you down. Wise up.

[C. Flower]

Aimed at no-one in particular, please would you all avoid personal posting. If anyone has a complaint about personal posting, please report or pm. Tit for tat is completely unedifying.:D:)

CF
Admin.

[Lá an Lúbáin]

Aimed at no-one in particular, please would you all avoid personal posting. If anyone has a complaint about personal posting, please report or pm. Tit for tat is completely unedifying.:D:)

CF
Admin.

If somebody tells blatant lies about you on the board then they have to be challanged on the board, cactus.

[C. Flower]

If somebody tells blatant lies about you on the board then they have to be challanged on the board, cactus.

We have a ball not man rule. Are you the topic of the thread ? If not, any personal issues should go to a Mod or you could start a feedback thread.
The main thing is to keep the thread going on topic.
This applies to everyone on the thread.

[mutley]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PqMWqcrdVHI/S9SfdADza3I/AAAAAAAAAO0/DZlx-6jC8I4/s1600/PPO1543.jpg

Are Sinn Fein really the least worst option? looking to the North what Sinn Fein say and what they end up doing are often miles apart, the argument that they should be given a vote to either stick it to the others or to vote for them as the least worst option, would have more merit, if you could look to the North and say well Sinn Fein have delivered what they promised, instead looking there were SF have had enormous success over the last 10 years or so, it should be seen by those contemplating voting for them in the upcoming election, that they are no better an option than FF/FG/Labour, that SF will do or say anything to get their hands on the levers of power, but if or when they get there, they will go from left to right.

@Moss, if you would encourage people to vote SF, on the basis that they oppose the IMF Etc, are you sure that they not just claiming opposition safe in the knowledge that they will never actually be tested on this as they are quite small in representation in the South? It's entirely possible that they are merely posturing and talking the talk, to gain a few votes, when the reality is that they realise they are powerless to do anything about it and are merely being oportunistic I can't help but being reminded of SF claiming that they would support a motion for an SDLP Justice Minister, very safe in the knowledge that it would never get the cross comunity support required in Stormont.
You say that like it or not SF are operating in two seperate juristictions, and while that is correct, SF are still one all Ireland party, their principles, values, what they are for and what they are against should be the same North and South, but that is not the case. That in itself should hinder anyone from voting for them as a put it up to them vote, because history has shown that when they have been given the opportunity, they have been a let down.

Eammon McCann wrote a good atrlice about the contraditions of SF, when comparing their stance North and South

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/eamon-mccann/why-sinn-fein-is-neither-left-nor-right-but-green-all-over-14634933.html

[People Korps]

If somebody tells blatant lies about you on the board then they have to be challanged on the board, cactus.

You did not object to spear chucker then, as I dont see you referencing it anywhere....
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PqMWqcrdVHI/S9SfdADza3I/AAAAAAAAAO0/DZlx-6jC8I4/s1600/PPO1543.jpg
I think this thread has proved the OP title pretty well

[Sam Lord]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PqMWqcrdVHI/S9SfdADza3I/AAAAAAAAAO0/DZlx-6jC8I4/s1600/PPO1543.jpg

Are Sinn Fein really the least worst option? looking to the North what Sinn Fein say and what they end up doing are often miles apart, the argument that they should be given a vote to either stick it to the others or to vote for them as the least worst option, would have more merit, if you could look to the North and say well Sinn Fein have delivered what they promised, instead looking there were SF have had enormous success over the last 10 years or so, it should be seen by those contemplating voting for them in the upcoming election, that they are no better an option than FF/FG/Labour, that SF will do or say anything to get their hands on the levers of power, but if or when they get there, they will go from left to right.

@Moss, if you would encourage people to vote SF, on the basis that they oppose the IMF Etc, are you sure that they not just claiming opposition safe in the knowledge that they will never actually be tested on this as they are quite small in representation in the South? It's entirely possible that they are merely posturing and talking the talk, to gain a few votes, when the reality is that they realise they are powerless to do anything about it and are merely being oportunistic I can't help but being reminded of SF claiming that they would support a motion for an SDLP Justice Minister, very safe in the knowledge that it would never get the cross comunity support required in Stormont.
You say that like it or not SF are operating in two seperate juristictions, and while that is correct, SF are still one all Ireland party, their principles, values, what they are for and what they are against should be the same North and South, but that is not the case. That in itself should hinder anyone from voting for them as a put it up to them vote, because history has shown that when they have been given the opportunity, they have been a let down.

Eammon McCann wrote a good atrlice about the contraditions of SF, when comparing their stance North and South

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/eamon-mccann/why-sinn-fein-is-neither-left-nor-right-but-green-all-over-14634933.html

Good post. Thank you.

[moss]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PqMWqcrdVHI/S9SfdADza3I/AAAAAAAAAO0/DZlx-6jC8I4/s1600/PPO1543.jpg

Are Sinn Fein really the least worst option? looking to the North what Sinn Fein say and what they end up doing are often miles apart, the argument that they should be given a vote to either stick it to the others or to vote for them as the least worst option, would have more merit, if you could look to the North and say well Sinn Fein have delivered what they promised, instead looking there were SF have had enormous success over the last 10 years or so, it should be seen by those contemplating voting for them in the upcoming election, that they are no better an option than FF/FG/Labour, that SF will do or say anything to get their hands on the levers of power, but if or when they get there, they will go from left to right.

@Moss, if you would encourage people to vote SF, on the basis that they oppose the IMF Etc, are you sure that they not just claiming opposition safe in the knowledge that they will never actually be tested on this as they are quite small in representation in the South? It's entirely possible that they are merely posturing and talking the talk, to gain a few votes, when the reality is that they realise they are powerless to do anything about it and are merely being oportunistic I can't help but being reminded of SF claiming that they would support a motion for an SDLP Justice Minister, very safe in the knowledge that it would never get the cross comunity support required in Stormont.
You say that like it or not SF are operating in two seperate juristictions, and while that is correct, SF are still one all Ireland party, their principles, values, what they are for and what they are against should be the same North and South, but that is not the case. That in itself should hinder anyone from voting for them as a put it up to them vote, because history has shown that when they have been given the opportunity, they have been a let down.

Eammon McCann wrote a good atrlice about the contraditions of SF, when comparing their stance North and South

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/eamon-mccann/why-sinn-fein-is-neither-left-nor-right-but-green-all-over-14634933.html


All fair points, indeed I'm fairly sure I've raised most them previously.

So if you wish to vote in the upcoming election in the 26 C and are opposed to the IMF intervention, who do you vote for ?

I believe the ULA and SF are your only options.

When is the SF poster from btw ? Recent ?

[truth.ie]

Don't know how recent the poster is, but "No Return to Stormont" was in Sinn Fein's election material as recent as 1996/7. About a year before they became Stormont's staunchest defender.
A friend of mine recalls pasting Stormont election posters over that "Smash Stormont" poster.

[moss]

The only argument put forward by Moss to vote Sinn Fein was that they had made a promise, and we should "call them out."
Well, Sorry, but Fianna Fail have also said their recent hard decisions, will turn the corner and that things will improve. Should we vote for them also...just to call them out like. A ridiculous reason to vote anyone.
I'll vote based on principled leadership and trust. Like good Art, I'll know it when I see it.

Actually I've said quite a bit more than SF made a promise and we should call them out.

I've repeated a few comments here for you.

It seems your blind hatred prevents you even talking about what the 'promise is'

Do you oppose the IMF intervention truth ?

If so, who do you propose people vote for ? (please don't kop out with the nobody answer, as people will vote, who should they vote for is what I'm asking)


But still it boils down to what the alternative is for those that wish to vote in the 26C election.

I say put it up to them.





If people vote they are voting for the establishment.
We both know that.

There is very little by way of an alternative if you oppose the IMF intervention.

SF may well let their voters down, but a vote for anyone else is a vote for cuts and intervention.

Get over yourself and open your eyes. Blind hatred is seriously debilitating.



A vote for FG/FF/Lab is a vote for the IMF intervention and cuts.



SF have said they'll oppose intervention. FG/FF/Lab will not.

If you are against intervention then give them a vote.

Again I agree with your sentiment about reclaiming power, but we both know that won't happen at the ballot box.
We are discussing electoral politics here.

[moss]

Don't know how recent the poster is, but "No Return to Stormont" was in Sinn Fein's election material as recent as 1996/7. About a year before they became Stormont's staunchest defender.
A friend of mine recalls pasting Stormont election posters over that "Smash Stormont" poster.


Could be true, but I don't believe that.

Any link ?

[mutley]

All fair points, indeed I'm fairly sure I've raised most them previously.

So if you wish to vote in the upcoming election in the 26 C and are opposed to the IMF intervention, who do you vote for ?

I believe the ULA and SF are your only options.

When is the SF poster from btw ? Recent ?

No it's not recent, but it shows that SF are full of crap

If you would agree with most of the points and claim you have raised most of then yourself, you would have to vote for the ULA or take the option not to vote even if you wish to, as SF in all likelihood are merely talking the talk, and from the points I made earlier, I would not vote for them to give themselves a chance to prove themselves, nor would I encourage anyone else to, as they will be sorely disappointed, coming from a Nationalist community, I am all to aware of the cronyism of SF, in my opinion if SF got anywhere near the representation that FF once had, the would make FF look like choir boys, and we would still be no closer to a UI


If you wished to vote in the North and DUP were the only party to came out and said the would oppose the cuts in the North, would you give them a vote? Or would you not bother voting?

If you were eligible to vote in the South would you give SF your vote, and if you wound vote for them in the South, will you give them your vote in the North next year?

[moss]

No it's not recent, but it shows that SF are full of crap

If you would agree with most of the points and claim you have raised most of then yourself, you would have to vote for the ULA or take the option not to vote even if you wish to, as SF in all likelihood are merely talking the talk, and from the points I made earlier, I would not vote for them to give themselves a chance to prove themselves, nor would I encourage anyone else to, as they will be sorely disappointed, coming from a Nationalist community, I am all to aware of the cronyism of SF, in my opinion if SF got anywhere near the representation that FF once had, the would make FF look like choir boys, and we would still be no closer to a UI


If you wished to vote in the North and DUP were the only party to came out and said the would oppose the cuts in the North, would you give them a vote? Or would you not bother voting?

If you were eligible to vote in the South would you give SF your vote, and if you wound vote for them in the South, will you give them your vote in the North next year?

Your hot air is repeating on you.

I'll try again....

So if you wish to vote in the upcoming election in the 26 C and are opposed to the IMF intervention, who do you vote for ?

[Griska]

I have a trust problem with SF. My main impression of them used to be that they are a bunch of thugs. This goes back to a time when many of them in Dublin behaved like, well, thugs.
Now, I don't trust them because 1. their leader is a liar and has behaved disgracefully regarding his brother. 2. Their representatives seem uninspiring and unconvincing.
I will say though, that from what I have seen so far, Doherty has been extremely impressive and if he is a sign of things to come, then my opinion of them may change.

[truth.ie]

Could be true, but I don't believe that.

Any link ?
Hard to find a link from the mid 90s as t'interweb had just took off.
I can tell you that No Return To Stormont was painted on many a gable in the North by SF activists in the mid 90s. It was also a Sinn Fein poster seen at rallies (along with "No internal solution").
Here's a 1996 Bodenstown speech by Rita O Hare. The Bodenstown speech is the voice of the leadership. In paragraph 25 they talk of "No Return to Stormont"
Just over a year later they were to U Turn.
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/15183

[moss]

Hard to find a link from the mid 90s as t'interweb had just took off.
I can tell you that No Return To Stormont was painted on many a gable in the North by SF activists in the mid 90s. It was also a Sinn Fein poster seen at rallies (along with "No internal solution").
Here's a 1996 Bodenstown speech by Rita O Hare. The Bodenstown speech is the voice of the leadership. In paragraph 25 they talk of "No Return to Stormont"
Just over a year later they were to U Turn.
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/15183

Cheers.

What about the previous question/post ?

[truth.ie]

Cheers.

What about the previous question/post ?
I've already answered that question. I don't see any point in repeating the answer just until you get the answer you want.
Sinn Fein are only Anti Establishment when in opposition. It's their comfort blanket. Their track record in the North shows they are not to be trusted.
And IT IS the same party with the same leadership in the 26 Counties.
I'd vote for the candidate that best reflects my posiiton and has a leadership that can be trusted. And NO-ONE else.

[moss]

I've already answered that question. I don't see any point in repeating the answer just until you get the answer you want.
Sinn Fein are only Anti Establishment when in opposition. It's their comfort blanket. Their track record in the North shows they are not to be trusted.
And IT IS the same party with the same leadership in the 26 Counties.
I'd vote for the candidate that best reflects my posiiton and has a leadership that can be trusted. And NO-ONE else.

I must have missed that, indulge me one more time. The name of a party/alliance would be helpful and concise in reply to the second question.


Do you oppose the IMF intervention truth ?

If so, who do you propose people vote for ? (please don't kop out with the nobody answer, as people will vote, who should they vote for is what I'm asking)

[mutley]

Your hot air is repeating on you.

I'll try again....

So if you wish to vote in the upcoming election in the 26 C and are opposed to the IMF intervention, who do you vote for ?


I already answered your question, as to who to vote for, at the risk of mimiking truth, I won't keep repeating myself until you get the answer you want to hear

Any chance that you would answer the questions I put to you, instead of evading with an insult?

[moss]

I already answered your question, as to who to vote for, at the risk of mimiking truth, I won't keep repeating myself until you get the answer you want to hear

Any chance that you would answer the questions I put to you, instead of evading with an insult?

Apologies, I read your post too quickly.

I see you'd vote for the ULA, a part of which is the WP, or stickies as you may know them.

So your blind hatred of anything SF leads you to them. Bizarre tbh.

I've stated previously I would not vote for SF in the 6C.

I have no problem repeating that for you. I like to keep my posts concise and to the point, rather than long winded crystal balls guessing.

[moss]

Any reason for the change of tune mutley ??

You can change your mind in a matter of days though SF cant over a decade and more ??

A post of yours from Sinn Féin Consider Legal Challenge To EU/IMF Loan


Fair play to them, they deserved the result in the Donegal bye election, their profile has been raised in a positive way, even if they aren't successful in this, they should be given votes in the General Election for at least trying

[mutley]

Apologies, I read your post too quickly.

I see you'd vote for the ULA, a part of which is the WP, or stickies as you may know them.

So your blind hatred of anything SF leads you to them. Bizarre tbh.

I've stated previously I would not vote for SF in the 6C.

I have no problem repeating that for you. I like to keep my posts concise and to the point, rather than long winded crystal balls guessing.


I have given valid reasons why voting SF would not be a good idea, I don't think that there was anything in my initial post, that could be constituted as hatred.
You also said that you would agree with most of what I wrote and have raised the same issues yourself, but I have a blind hatred of SF and you don't??

I'll tell you what's even more bizarre, someone that thinks that SF should be given a vote, just because they say they will oppose the cuts/IMF even though they are of the opinion that SF are dishonest
What is even more bizarre, is that someone would promote SF in the South, but wouldn't give them their vote in the North, would asking you for a reason why, lead to further evasion insults?

No worries about you missing my answer, never had you down as a speed reader tho ;-)

[moss]

See above mate.

[mutley]

Any reason for the change of tune mutley ??

You can change your mind in a matter of days though SF cant over a decade and more ??

A post of yours from Sinn Féin Consider Legal Challenge To EU/IMF Loan

SF deserved that seat in Donegal, because of the effort they put into forcing a by election, in other words, in that instance I felt they were to be congratulated, due to merit, not because of what they said, and that they would be entitled to some votes in the next GE because of that instance.

Thanks for highlighting the post, as it rubbish's your insinuation that I am blinded by hatred of SF

[moss]

SF deserved that seat in Donegal, because of the effort they put into forcing a by election, in other words, in that instance I felt they were to be congratulated, due to merit, not because of what they said, and that they would be entitled to some votes in the next GE because of that instance.

Thanks for highlighting the post, as it rubbish's your insinuation that I am blinded by hatred of SF

I feel I've been consistent, highlighting the post where you call for votes for SF last week but not this shows you have not been.

The blind hatred has kicked in again. Have you not seen PD on TV recently ? He is hot like.

[mutley]

I feel I've been consistent, highlighting the post where you call for votes for SF last week but not this shows you have not been.

The blind hatred has kicked in again. Have you not seen PD on TV recently ? He is hot like.

Where is the blind hatred?

[moss]

Where is the blind hatred?

Why the change of mind ?

What have they done in the past week or two that has changed your mind ?

[mutley]

See above mate.

So you won't explain why you think It's a good idea to vote SF in the south, but you wouldn't give them a vote in the North? thought not

Btw having to resort to insinuating that I would give SF credit because of Pierce Dohertys looks, is pretty low, if you can't argue the points without having to personalise the argument, then you loose, simple as.
And killian Forde would be much more my type :-)

[mutley]

Why the change of mind ?

What have they done in the past week or two that has changed your mind ?

Answering a question with a question, get outta here

[moss]

Answering a question with a question, get outta here

The questions were rhetorical.

They demonstrate your blind hatred. Unless of course you do have valid reasons for the change of tune.

Do you ?

[moss]

So you won't explain why you think It's a good idea to vote SF in the south, but you wouldn't give them a vote in the North? thought not

Btw having to resort to insinuating that I would give SF credit because of Pierce Dohertys looks, is pretty low, if you can't argue the points without having to personalise the argument, then you loose, simple as.
And killian Forde would be much more my type :-)

Because the 6C has been sold long ago and I oppose the IMF intervention and cuts in the 26C.

I have posted that before.

[mutley]

The questions were rhetorical.

They demonstrate your blind hatred. Unless of course you do have valid reasons for the change of tune.

Do you ?


You are setting up a strawman, by claiming that I have a blind hatred towards SF, I don't have a blind hatred towards them, if you don't want to accept that, then that is fine, I won't be repeating myself until you get the answer you want to hear
You have also quoted a post of mine that rubbishes your claim that I have a blind hatred towards SF, so to counteract that, you are trying now to insinuate that I am flip flopping between hating and not hating them, another strawman, I have explained to you my reasoning for the post you quoted, if it's nor the answer you want to hear, then to bad.

[thecat]

No it's not recent, but it shows that SF are full of crap

If you would agree with most of the points and claim you have raised most of then yourself, you would have to vote for the ULA or take the option not to vote even if you wish to, as SF in all likelihood are merely talking the talk, and from the points I made earlier, I would not vote for them to give themselves a chance to prove themselves, nor would I encourage anyone else to, as they will be sorely disappointed, coming from a Nationalist community, I am all to aware of the cronyism of SF, in my opinion if SF got anywhere near the representation that FF once had, the would make FF look like choir boys, and we would still be no closer to a UI


If you wished to vote in the North and DUP were the only party to came out and said the would oppose the cuts in the North, would you give them a vote? Or would you not bother voting?

If you were eligible to vote in the South would you give SF your vote, and if you wound vote for them in the South, will you give them your vote in the North next year?

So the Poster is on about the old Unionist Stormont? If we had a United Ireland in the morning and the Parliament was to be in the Stormont building would you refuse to accept it because the Stormont Building was to be used? After the GFA agreement was signed should a new Parliament building have been built? Just wondering, like.

[moss]

You are setting up a strawman, by claiming that I have a blind hatred towards SF, I don't have a blind hatred towards them, if you don't want to accept that, then that is fine, I won't be repeating myself until you get the answer you want to hear
You have also quoted a post of mine that rubbishes your claim that I have a blind hatred towards SF, so to counteract that, you are trying now to insinuate that I am flip flopping between hating and not hating them, another strawman, I have explained to you my reasoning for the post you quoted, if it's nor the answer you want to hear, then to bad.

So can you explain your sudden change of tune ?

Why did you feel it was a good idea to vote for them at the start of the month, but not now ?

[mutley]

So the Poster is on about the old Unionist Stormont? If we had a United Ireland in the morning and the Parliament was to be in the Stormont building would you refuse to accept it because the Stormont Building was to be used? After the GFA agreement was signed should a new Parliament building have been built? Just wondering, like.

The building is irrelevant

[moss]

So the Poster is on about the old Unionist Stormont? If we had a United Ireland in the morning and the Parliament was to be in the Stormont building would you refuse to accept it because the Stormont Building was to be used? After the GFA agreement was signed should a new Parliament building have been built? Just wondering, like.


Don't be pathetic.

The poster is about an internal settlement sell-out. Not the building.

[thecat]

Don't be pathetic.

The poster is about an internal settlement sell-out. Not the building.

Well the point i was making was that the poster was pre GFA, so why bring it up now?

[mutley]

So can you explain your sudden change of tune ?

Why did you feel it was a good idea to vote for them at the start of the month, but not now ?


Have I not already explained that to you?

I never said it wasn't a good idea to vote for them in general, did I?
I made a number of points why they should not be given a vote just because they say they would oppose the IMF/ cuts.

So I'll make this as clear as I can, to avoid the risk of having to repeat myself, SF should be given a vote based on merit, but should not be given a vote under any circumstances due to promises made.

You say that you would vote for them because they say the oppose the cuts, why would you give them the benefit of the doubt?

[moss]

Well the point i was making was that the poster was pre GFA, so why bring it up now?

SF are a political party.

Political partys bend with the wind. The poster demonstrates that fact.

[mutley]

Well the point i was making was that the poster was pre GFA, so why bring it up now?

Because SF were intent on smashing Stormont, by achieving a UI, and they now administer British rule from it, that's why I brought it up

[moss]

Have I not already explained that to you?

I never said it wasn't a good idea to vote for them in general, did I?
I made a number of points why they should not be given a vote just because they say they would oppose the IMF/ cuts.

So I'll make this as clear as I can, to avoid the risk of having to repeat myself, SF should be given a vote based on merit, but should not be given a vote under any circumstances due to promises made.

You say that you would vote for them because they say the oppose the cuts, why would you give them the benefit of the doubt?


No, you most certainly did not explain your change of tune.

You clearly stated it was a good idea to vote for them in the upcoming 26C elections.

You have changed your mind in a matter of weeks. Why ?

[thecat]

Because SF were intent on smashing Stormont, by achieving a UI, and they now administer British rule from it, that's why I brought it up

They did smash the Unionist Stormont. They need Sinn Fein's agreement to make any move.
As for the United Ireland we all want, it will take time but I think the GFA has made that alot nearer than ever, without any blood being spilt.
That's my opinion, you are entitled to yours.

[moss]

They did smash the Unionist Stormont. They need Sinn Fein's agreement to make any move.
As for the United Ireland we all want, it will take time but I think the GFA has made that alot nearer than ever, without any blood being spilt.
That's my opinion, you are entitled to yours.

The poster mutley showed was not about breaking 'unionist stormont'. It was about breaking british occupation.

SF sold out.

And there was plenty of blood spilt to achieve their lowered aims, much of it from solid republicans.

[mutley]

No, you most certainly did not explain your change of tune.

You clearly stated it was a good idea to vote for them in the upcoming 26C elections.

You have changed your mind in a matter of weeks. Why ?

I have explIned myself, you are setting up a strawman and making false assumptions, I'll not be repeating myself again

[thecat]

The poster mutley showed was not about breaking 'unionist stormont'. It was about breaking british occupation.

SF sold out.

And there was plenty of blood spilt to achieve their lowered aims, much of it from solid republicans.

Thats your opinion and your entitled to it, my opinion is that even many more solid republicans agree with Sinn Fein's position.

[mutley]

They did smash the Unionist Stormont. They need Sinn Fein's agreement to make any move.
As for the United Ireland we all want, it will take time but I think the GFA has made that alot nearer than ever, without any blood being spilt.
That's my opinion, you are entitled to yours.

Brithish rule is being administered from Stormont, end of

[thecat]

Brithish rule is being administered from Stormont, end of

O if life was so black and white. And who's rule administers the Free State? IMF? ECB? Who runs the mighty US of A? China owns most of it, I hear! Black and White this world isn't I'm afraid Mutley. I won't even say 'end of'. ;-)

[moss]

I have explIned myself, you are setting up a strawman and making false assumptions, I'll not be repeating myself again


Sound, I've obviously missed it.

It will be easy the for you to quote the post when you explained why 3 weeks ago you felt it was a good reason to vote SF but now it's not.

No doubt the post of yours you'll quote will clearly show what has changed in those 3 weeks to change your mind.

[moss]

Thats your opinion and your entitled to it, my opinion is that even many more solid republicans agree with Sinn Fein's position.

I never said they didn't.

And you failed miserably to address the points I made.

[thecat]

Sound, I've obviously missed it.

It will be easy the for you to quote the post when you explained why 3 weeks ago you felt it was a good reason to vote SF but now it's not.

No doubt the post of yours you'll quote will clearly show what has changed in those 3 weeks to change your mind.

Around and around we go. lol

[thecat]

I never said they didn't.

And you failed miserably to address the points I made.

Which was? Must have missed it.

[C. Flower]

I'm going to lock this thread for an hour or so and then re-open it. Please remind me by pm if I forget to open it.

[C. Flower]

bump

[moss]

Which was? Must have missed it.

Here, I'll repeat it.


The poster mutley showed was not about breaking 'unionist stormont'. It was about breaking british occupation.

SF sold out.

And there was plenty of blood spilt to achieve their lowered aims, much of it from solid republicans.

Now I know your username from a minor politics site. Perhaps you aren't the fella I'm thinking of of.

But this fella was an eejit that was a sinner party aparatik.
He could see no fault with SF. He trusted them with his wee sister virginity.

Do you have such blind faith in SF ?

Is it possible mutley, Cath and truth have a point ?

[thecat]

Here, I'll repeat it.



Now I know your username from a minor politics site. Perhaps you aren't the fella I'm thinking of of.

But this fella was an eejit that was a sinner party aparatik.
He could see no fault with SF. He trusted them with his wee sister virginity.

Do you have such blind faith in SF ?

Is it possible mutley, Cath and truth have a point ?

I don't debate with people who resort to personal insults. If you look back at this thread you'll see I never insulted you. I reported your post and c flower deal with it, so as far as I'm concerned it's over.

[moss]

I don't debate with people who resort to personal insults. If you look back at this thread you'll see I never insulted you. I reported your post and c flower deal with it, so as far as I'm concerned it's over.


What insult ?

Are you running for the Donegal hills ? I hear they have some nice houses.

[thecat]

What insult ?

Are you running for the Donegal hills ? I hear they have some nice houses.

As you know full well, c flower deleted it. Please don't make yourself out a liar.
Do we really need to do this? If I offended you by having a different view about Sinn Fein, I apologise.

[C. Flower]

A little coolth please. There was a good debate getting going here.

Anyone watching Pearse Doherty on the Frontline?

[People Korps]

A little coolth please. There was a good debate getting going here.

Anyone watching Pearse Doherty on the Frontline?

I agree no one wants to be dug up in 25 years lets cool down the pace little children, you're moving too fast,

Can we all agree that Sinn fein have different policies in government in NI where they have to balance the heavy load of responsibility of serving mammon, the Tories and the voters: versus in RoI where they can be the golden soothsayers and agree to everything they feel populist to garner support?
Now is a United Ireland first or second on their agenda?
Would they balance the budget first or plough forward to unify if they achieved a place in government in the RoI or would they vacillate, equivocate and meander like so many river pilots and minnows before them?

Will People Korps be buried alive?

[thecat]

I agree no one wants to be dug up in 25 years lets cool down the pace little children, you're moving too fast,

Can we all agree that Sinn fein have different policies in government in NI where they have to balance the heavy load of responsibility of serving mammon, the Tories and the voters: versus in RoI where they can be the golden soothsayers and agree to everything they feel populist to garner support?
Now is a United Ireland first or second on their agenda?
Would they balance the budget first or plough forward to unify if they achieved a place in government in the RoI or would they vacillate, equivocate and meander like so many river pilots and minnows before them?

Will People Korps be buried alive?

Hopefully they wouldn't do like FF has, Bankrupt the Country while standing idly by.

[People Korps]

Hopefully they wouldn't do like FF has, Bankrupt the Country while standing idly by.

I think it was Kevin Boland who coined the idly by byline.
Having never been in FF I can not speak for them, for myself I advocate a vigorous tranche of arrests and trials, should the evidence prevail. Many of your cadre should along with FF people, bankers , planning people of various levels eg County Managers, engineers and councilors as well as developers and financiers. I would bring this chicken home to roost right where it laid its golden egg if I were in politics or government. I also know how I could achieve this in law.
Your boys would swing too despite the humour that I greeting the NI bank job with...it takes a Fenian to track Fenian finances.
I would have your balls metaphorically
and in reality your houses, apartment blocks, chalets and investments confiscated for the good of the common weal!!!!! :) :)

If I were in politics that is.

[thecat]

I think it was Kevin Boland who coined the idly by byline.
Having never been in FF I can not speak for them, for myself I advocate a vigorous tranche of arrests and trials, should the evidence prevail. Many of your cadre should along with FF people, bankers , planning people of various levels eg County Managers, engineers and councilors as well as developers and financiers. I would bring this chicken home to roost right where it laid its golden egg if I were in politics or government. I also know how I could achieve this in law.
Your boys would swing too despite the humour that I greeting the NI bank job with...it takes a Fenian to track Fenian finances.
I would have your balls metaphorically
and in reality your houses, apartment blocks, chalets and investments confiscated for the good of the common weal!!!!! :) :)

If I were in politics that is.


If I were in politics I'd do the same to any wrong doers. Pity we aren't in Politics . . . . . wait, I just had an idea............ nah that's just silly.

[People Korps]

If I were in politics I'd do the same to any wrong doers. Pity we aren't in Politics . . . . . wait, I just had an idea............ nah that's just silly.

:) maybe not! But I am a serious hound for infiltration and you would fair as well as AM Sullivan against O Donovan Rossa and friends at the Rotunda in 1861 as you would trying to swell my Cumann with cadre.

[People Korps]

Also if SF really wanted a United Ireland cutting 4 billion may have helped the cause, the IMF might seem rosy after such cuts in NI and the doled here is still going to be 186 euro after the next budget.

[thecat]

Also if SF really wanted a United Ireland cutting 4 billion may have helped the cause, the IMF might seem rosy after such cuts in NI and the doled here is still going to be 186 euro after the next budget.

As it only costs the British Government an extra 3billion a years on top of tax collected to keep the 6 Counties. Pullout plan?? I don't know, but in this world does anyone?

[People Korps]

As it only costs the British Government an extra 3billion a years on top of tax collected to keep the 6 Counties. Pullout plan?? I don't know, but in this world does anyone?

In fact only people with plans will prevail so the question is which plan. For many years I have percieved the threat to Ireland not in the current status quo but in the parties that would emerge from this inevitable collapse.
Right now even before we lick our wounds we are faced with the possibility of a systemic collapse that is months or a few years away unless a miracle occurs.
Will that miracle manifest as a revisionist proto Christian ultra right wing party? or A sensible party? Or A party that puts people first or one that follows the people ? Or a version of the same ol same ol, which would prevail?


I hear the voice of the crowd, I am the leader of that crowd , I must follow that voice or I am a person and I do what is good and right and I help people ?

New voices are needed and a new message before it is too late and the demons slayers will have their way.

I was never joking when I blogged about the Christo Taliban now is their time.

[Kev Bar]

They did smash the Unionist Stormont. They need Sinn Fein's agreement to make any move.
As for the United Ireland we all want, it will take time but I think the GFA has made that alot nearer than ever, without any blood being spilt.
That's my opinion, you are entitled to yours.

While I agree with some of what you say, careful with the "we".
Some of us don't share the passion of the fundamentalist.

[thecat]

While I agree with some of what you say, careful with the "we".
Some of us don't share the passion of the fundamentalist.

So you don't want a United Ireland?

[Kev Bar]

So you don't want a United Ireland?


It's a matter of total indifference.
I find a United Europe has more pragmatic benefit.

Why do you want one?

[thecat]

It's a matter of total indifference.
I find a United Europe has more pragmatic benefit.

Why do you want one?

No harm to you, I give up some times!

[Kev Bar]

No harm to you, I give up some times!

Give up - I never started.
Always seemed to me a hallow piety - like something you'd hear from a, decade away from disgrace, priest.

Justice - yes.
Equality - yes.
Unity - what's that about?

Anyhow what's with the infatuation?

[5intheface]

Unity - what's that about?

Anyhow what's with the infatuation?

We thought we might be able to help in sorting out the 90 years of misrule south of the Mason-Dixon.

If you don't want our help -stuff you! :)

[Kev Bar]

We thought we might be able to help in sorting out the 90 years of misrule south of the Mason-Dixon.

If you don't want our help -stuff you! :)

I believe the ability to deal with loss is what defines our maturity - a lot which was on display in this thread. Up the junta etc etc (Tried and failed to put a green man with big smiley teeth as a visual dramatisation of the Roisin Mason-Dixon Dubh concept).

[5intheface]

Roisin Mason

His name was Roy Mason.......some people!

[Kev Bar]

His name was Roy Mason.......some people!

I get old.
Care for a peach?

[thecat]

His name was Roy Mason.......some people!

Was it not Perry Mason? lol

[5intheface]

I get old.
Care for a peach?

Nah, Oranges are the only fruit.

[Kev Bar]

Nah, Oranges are the only fruit.

Yr location speaks of a fruit of another foot.

And let's not speak of the unspeakable luvvies.

[5intheface]

Was it not Perry Mason? lol

No he was a top provo, edited 'The Mason's AP/RN'.

See, managed to get back on topic.

[Kev Bar]

No he was a top provo, edited 'The Mason's AP/RN'.

See, managed to get back on topic.

Congrats.
I should really reach across the divide and squeeze your hand.

[5intheface]

Congrats.
I should really reach across the divide and squeeze your hand.

Shhh, we were supposed to hand in all our arms years ago. :mad:

[Kev Bar]

Shhh, we were supposed to hand in all our arms years ago. :mad:

And you wonder why I don't trust you:confused:

[Dr. FIVE]

As little an all time I've always had for Sinn Fein.
I have to admit I'm getting a great laugh at all the resent freakouts the establishment has been having. Will add another dimension next year at least.

Every other party calling Sinn Fein hypocrites.........
Every other party saying Sinn Fein has crazy economic polices........
Every other party reminding Sinn Fein of their criminal past at every opportunity.......

Its true, there really is shag all difference between all sides of the house

[Kev Bar]

As little an all time I've always had for Sinn Fein.
I have to admit I'm getting a great laugh at all the resent freakouts the establishment has been having. Will add another dimension next year at least.

Every other party calling Sinn Fein hypocrites.........
Every other party saying Sinn Fein has crazy economic polices........
Every other party reminding Sinn Fein of their criminal past at every opportunity.......

Its true, there really is shag all difference between all sides of the house

It's merely a question of the evolution of your corruption.

[Dr. FIVE]

Spot on :)

[People Korps]

It's merely a question of the evolution of your corruption.

This thread has not gone away you know :)

To Sf Happy Christmas May your toutdom grow and multiply