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Binn Beal
06-12-2010, 10:29 AM
Sorry to post this here as it applies to all socialists (small s) and not just the Socialist Party.

The icy paths present an opportunity for socialists to 'live the changes they want to see' by clearing paths of ice. Any two socialists with a spade and a bag of sea-sand or salt, wearing high-vis slipovers with 'Socialist Action', 'Socialist Party', 'Sinn Fein' or whatever could demonstrate that socialism is built from the bottom up in communities.

The notion that when we get state power or a majority in the parliament, then we will begin to build socialism is a cop-out in my opinion. Unless socialists begin to live the life, sharing surpluses, engaging with their neigbours and setting an example of how to work together, we are never going to succeed. Clearing ice gives an opportunity to be out in the community, talking to neighbours, and encouraging them to take direct action. And, it is also a very useful canvassing tactic.

Any takers?

C. Flower
06-12-2010, 11:15 AM
I agree with you, Binn Beal. I said the same at the time of the floods last year, that SF and the Socialist parties should get out there and help as well as local community groups.

We have virtually no Government at this stage. It's not just a question of getting support - if we don't do these things for ourselves, they won't get done.

C. Flower
06-12-2010, 06:11 PM
The army's got in first...
They're shovelling snow away from schools and hospitals. Also, 60 of them gave blood in Cork, with RTE publicity.

Last year it was hard enough to get them to fill a sandbag for the floods.

Something's up.....

Kid Ryder
06-12-2010, 06:14 PM
The army's got in first...
They're shovelling snow away from schools and hospitals. Also, 60 of them gave blood in Cork, with RTE publicity.

Last year it was hard enough to get them to fill a sandbag for the floods.

Something's up.....

I'm sure we will remember these cuddly helpful soldiers when they are facing the risen people in firing position with their Steyr rifles...

C. Flower
06-12-2010, 06:16 PM
I'm sure we will remember these cuddly helpful soldiers when they are facing the risen people in firing position with their Steyr rifles...


Or even when they're clearing bin bags in the General Strike.

Binn Beal
06-12-2010, 06:35 PM
There is little danger of socialists running out of icy paths or other tasks in their communites. All that is needed is the will, and it beats knocking on doors as a way of meeting people.

Also, the Defence Forces are not the enemy.

Apjp
06-12-2010, 06:56 PM
There is little danger of socialists running out of icy paths or other tasks in their communites. All that is needed is the will, and it beats knocking on doors as a way of meeting people.

Also, the Defence Forces are not the enemy.

not until biffo says fire

Binn Beal
06-12-2010, 07:18 PM
My point is well made. Many of our socialists are more concerned with day-dreaming about recreating St Petersburg in 1917 than in building the socialist alternative.
The new structure must be created within the old and that can only be done by groundwork in the community and in the workplace.
The Defence Forces, the Garda Siochana, the Prison Service or any other uniformed branch of the public service are not the enemies of socialism and saying they are is just another sidetrack into another dead end.

C. Flower
06-12-2010, 10:08 PM
My point is well made. Many of our socialists are more concerned with day-dreaming about recreating St Petersburg in 1917 than in building the socialist alternative.
The new structure must be created within the old and that can only be done by groundwork in the community and in the workplace.
The Defence Forces, the Garda Siochana, the Prison Service or any other uniformed branch of the public service are not the enemies of socialism and saying they are is just another sidetrack into another dead end.

We can agree on the community snow clearing so. The Parishes used to get involved in a lot of community organisation at that kind of level, but the decline of church participation opens up the need new forms of community action and organisation.

But leaving aside the rest, the performance of the Gardai in the last two months has not been exactly pro-socialist.:confused:

Apjp
06-12-2010, 10:59 PM
My point is well made. Many of our socialists are more concerned with day-dreaming about recreating St Petersburg in 1917 than in building the socialist alternative.
The new structure must be created within the old and that can only be done by groundwork in the community and in the workplace.
The Defence Forces, the Garda Siochana, the Prison Service or any other uniformed branch of the public service are not the enemies of socialism and saying they are is just another sidetrack into another dead end.

Well, I helped clear snow around my village last week. we dont have to harp on about it. reality is, even if every socialist was out digging spuds for free, many people would still not be happy. Its all well and good targeting us and saying we should volunteer more-many of us do anyways-why don't the rest of you get out with us? Or is the snow too cold for social democrats?? ;)

Btw the Workers party does not swallow that permanent revolution crap-we might be small, but we are a reformist socialist party in that we are willing to support or enter an administration we see as good for socialism, and above all the people of Ireland. I.e. expect the 2 or 3 future wp(fingers crossed) td's to support a Labour/SF govt, or enter it if it so arises.

C. Flower
06-12-2010, 11:03 PM
Well, I helped clear snow around my village last week. we dont have to harp on about it. reality is, even if every socialist was out digging spuds for free, many people would still not be happy. Its all well and good targeting us and saying we should volunteer more-many of us do anyways-why don't the rest of you get out with us? Or is the snow too cold for social democrats?? ;)

Btw the Workers party does not swallow that permanent revolution crap-we might be small, but we are a reformist socialist party in that we are willing to support or enter an administration we see as good for socialism, and above all the people of Ireland. I.e. expect the 2 or 3 future wp(fingers crossed) td's to support a Labour/SF govt, or enter it if it so arises.

It's always nice to see someone clear and transparent about where they stand.

Edo
06-12-2010, 11:09 PM
Well I've been out clearing paths and shovelling snow for the last week

In fairness all the FG,FF and Labour councillors have been out putting their shoulders to the wheel and shovelling and clearing snow aswell salting - a couple of tons which they put their hands in their own pockets to pay for as Gormley and Dempsey have requistioned all the councils salt and put a stop on them spending anymore - we're not on any national roads down here - aswell as getting all the 4 wheel drive owners in the district to do different shifts out making sure the old and alone are ok and getting them into the village to get essentials etc etc.

In fairness its been a real community effort - political rivalries go out the window on occasions like this

Interesting tho that our SF rep gone AWOL over the last 2 weeks - maybe hes been snowed in in Donegal after the celebrations went on a bit too long:)

Apjp
06-12-2010, 11:10 PM
Well, I helped clear snow around my village last week. we dont have to harp on about it. reality is, even if every socialist was out digging spuds for free, many people would still not be happy. Its all well and good targeting us and saying we should volunteer more-many of us do anyways-why don't the rest of you get out with us? Or is the snow too cold for social democrats?? ;)

Btw the Workers party does not swallow that permanent revolution crap-we might be small, but we are a reformist socialist party in that we are willing to support or enter an administration we see as good for socialism, and above all the people of Ireland. I.e. expect the 2 or 3 future wp(fingers crossed) td's to support a Labour/SF govt, or enter it if it so arises.

It's always nice to see someone clear and transparent about where they stand.

yeah well, if every socialist party expected a bolshevik style uprising, well we'd be waiting a lot longer than we have been for the chance to make an impact on the people through either govt. or constructive opposition(obviously govt with FG is a no-no ;)

antiestablishmentarian
06-12-2010, 11:16 PM
Binn, I think the recent outpouring of community feeling actually vindicates what socialists are saying about the potential of communities to organise their lives and run their communities themselves. I was out gritting roads yesterday afternoon but I don't think putting a party badge on you will make a difference, people should know your politics from the way you interact with the community and I think individuals doing things like that will make the same impact as doing so in an organised fashion as you have proposed imo.

C. Flower
06-12-2010, 11:19 PM
[quote=C. Flower;99944]

yeah well, if every socialist party expected a bolshevik style uprising, well we'd be waiting a lot longer than we have been for the chance to make an impact on the people through either govt. or constructive opposition(obviously govt with FG is a no-no ;)

Expecting social revolution at some stage does not but a bar on clearing the snow up today - the reverse, I think.

Apjp
07-12-2010, 10:46 AM
[quote=Apjp;99948]

Expecting social revolution at some stage does not but a bar on clearing the snow up today - the reverse, I think.

hey i did my dues in my local area. So I need not be bound by that! :D

C. Flower
08-12-2010, 01:58 AM
The army's got in first...
They're shovelling snow away from schools and hospitals. Also, 60 of them gave blood in Cork, with RTE publicity.

Last year it was hard enough to get them to fill a sandbag for the floods.

Something's up.....

Went to check "Irish Military Online" to see how they were finding this, but it's "Irish Military" - Offline.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:aQ3FED4JFvYJ:www.irishmilitaryonlin e.com/main.php%3Fid%3Dabout+Irish+Military+Online&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

Prometheus
08-12-2010, 06:24 AM
Btw the Workers party does not swallow that permanent revolution crap-we might be small, but we are a reformist socialist party in that we are willing to support or enter an administration we see as good for socialism, and above all the people of Ireland. I.e. expect the 2 or 3 future wp(fingers crossed) td's to support a Labour/SF govt, or enter it if it so arises.

The Workers' Party is a revolutionary socialist party. Obviously we want reform but to describe us as reformist is well wide of the mark. We are opposed to reformism which seeks to "repair" or improve capitalism We believe that capitalism is utterly unjust and cannot be reformed. It must be overthrown and replaced by socialism. I appreciate APJP that you may be new to the Workers' Party but statements like this are simply misleading and incorrect.