View Full Version : Labour, SF and Green Government?
Based on the SBP Red C Figures Labour could lead a left wing government if there was proper transfer management.
What do people think?
5intheface
27-03-2010, 04:42 PM
Would Guns 'n' Roses be willing to take the Greens on board considering their involvement with the current incumbents? That's getting by the difficulty of them coming together in the first place but nothing would surprise me in the search for office.
Iarmhi Gael
27-03-2010, 04:45 PM
Will not happen....
I doubt all three put together could get even close to 40 seats
C. Flower
27-03-2010, 05:09 PM
Guns 'n' Roses
Hadn't heard that one before - LOL.
C. Flower
27-03-2010, 05:12 PM
Based on the SBP Red C Figures Labour could lead a left wing government if there was proper transfer management.
What do people think?
I think that if Labour went all out to prepare to win a General Election with a real alternative to the bank bailout, and programme for employment and service retention, anything is possible.
The likelihood of that happening sadly appears to be tiny.
Digout
27-03-2010, 05:17 PM
Its def possible, especially when we think of the origins of Gilmore's politics.....
Its def possible, especially when we think of the origins of Gilmore's politics.....
That's what I was thinking. Politics is very spin and PR driven now though. Are Labour just pretending not to be a FG twin because the pollsters told them to?
Digout
27-03-2010, 05:24 PM
That's what I was thinking. Politics is very spin and PR driven now though. Are Labour just pretending not to be a FG twin because the pollsters told them to?
Once a stickie always a stickie.....
Sam Lord
27-03-2010, 05:25 PM
If there is a single green TD elected in the next election I will eat my shorts ...
Tony1975
27-03-2010, 05:30 PM
Based on the SBP Red C Figures Labour could lead a left wing government if there was proper transfer management.
What do people think?
Could they?
Labour (17) + Green (5) + SF (10) = 32 %
FF + FG = 59%
Am I missing something?
Could they?
Labour (17) + Green (5) + SF (10) = 32 %
FF + FG = 59%
Am I missing something?
Apart from the fact the FG and FF wont share power? No
32% could be the biggest block and could be higher if organised in advanced. I am not saying it is likely, but it is possible.
5intheface
27-03-2010, 05:47 PM
Hadn't heard that one before - LOL.
Not mine.
Tony1975
27-03-2010, 06:13 PM
Apart from the fact the FG and FF wont share power? No
32% could be the biggest block and could be higher if organised in advanced. I am not saying it is likely, but it is possible.
But, if FF+FG = more than half of the seats, then it's impossible for a government to be formed without one or the other of them. Isn't it?
But, if FF+FG = more than half of the seats, then it's impossible for a government to be formed without one or the other of them. Isn't it?
Might not be half the seats and even if it was you can still be elected into office without majority in Dail.
Based on the SBP Red C Figures Labour could lead a left wing government if there was proper transfer management.
What do people think?
And the Greens could insist on a rotation of Ministerial jobs every 6 months so everyone in the audience gets a pension boost.
Sam Lord
27-03-2010, 06:40 PM
But, if FF+FG = more than half of the seats, then it's impossible for a government to be formed without one or the other of them. Isn't it?
Minority governments are possible. There has, for example, been one in Canada for some years now.
Government:
Conservatives (143)
Opposition:
Liberals (77)
Bloc Québécois (49)
New Democrats (37)
Independent (2)
Cáthasaigh
27-03-2010, 07:46 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__RtQMk1SpuA/S3Rsqyj0wJI/AAAAAAAAAR8/5ADyoJLQNQ8/s400/nobody.jpg
Eirenua
27-03-2010, 11:19 PM
It would be a scary coalition. Economy would be doomed
Digout
27-03-2010, 11:28 PM
It would be a scary coalition. Economy would be doomed
The current coalition did a pretty good job of wrecking the economy.
It would be a scary coalition. Economy would be doomed
I assume you are being ironic.
Cassandra Syndrome
28-03-2010, 10:53 AM
The Greens can never ever be involved in politics again. Is that not going to be one of the articles in our new constitution?
ZANU-FF
28-03-2010, 10:59 AM
The Greens can never ever be involved in politics again. Is that not going to be one of the articles in our new constitution?
Thats correct, you are well briefed.
Digout
28-03-2010, 12:06 PM
The Greens can never ever be involved in politics again. Is that not going to be one of the articles in our new constitution?
The Revolutionary Council will make sure that traitors can no longer feed off the backs of taxpayers.
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 12:35 PM
Based on the SBP Red C Figures Labour could lead a left wing government if there was proper transfer management.
What do people think?
Labour people hate the Shinners (largely for all the wrong reasons), its not something they would be comfy with but if it came to a chioce between going in with PSF or missing on a ministerial pension they will choose the pension.
mutley
28-03-2010, 12:44 PM
Based on the SBP Red C Figures Labour could lead a left wing government if there was proper transfer management.
What do people think?
How would that work? the 3 combined have less than FG alone.
What sort of a margin do you need to have a one party Government (just curious)
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 12:55 PM
How would that work? the 3 combined have less than FG alone.
What sort of a margin do you need to have a one party Government (just curious)
I think we could actually see the Shinners going into coalition with the Blue Shirts...Think about the fact that Clann Na Phoblacta which was a split off the Republican movement in the 1950s with basically the same politics as the Shinners today went into coalition with them.
mutley
28-03-2010, 12:58 PM
I think we could actually see the Shinners going into coalition with the Blue Shirts...Think about the fact that Clann Na Phoblacta which was a split off the Republican movement in the 1950s with basically the same politics as the Shinners today went into coalition with them.
Was McGuinness not quite adamant that, that would not happen?
SF talking out of the side of their mouth again?
Was McGuinness not quite adamant that, that would not happen?
SF talking out of the side of their mouth again?
Would you believe anything they say ?
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 01:15 PM
Was McGuinness not quite adamant that, that would not happen?
SF talking out of the side of their mouth again?
Can you see the Shinner turning down a ministerial pension....In all seriousness? ;)
I think we could actually see the Shinners going into coalition with the Blue Shirts...Think about the fact that Clann Na Phoblacta which was a split off the Republican movement in the 1950s with basically the same politics as the Shinners today went into coalition with them.
Well I see no reason why they should not, it is well past time that the civil war differences be buried by both. It is childish of FG to treat SF as they do, not really the actions of a party of government. Sure they are right to disagree with them, but trying to make them politically untouchable in the context of what was signed up in the GFA is silly. Likewise SF should consider it acceptable to share power with FG if the DUP is acceptable.
Of the Green, Labour, SF trio, Labour is the only one with issues to prove about its ability to stick out a difficult period in office as far as I am concerned. SF and the Greens have been a lesson in sharing power with political enemies. Labour maybe flaky.
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 01:30 PM
Of the Green, Labour, SF trio, Labour is the only one with issues to prove about its ability to stick out a difficult period in office as far as I am concerned. SF and the Greens have been a lesson in sharing power with political enemies. Labour maybe flaky.
A lot of people in the leadership of the Labour Party are ex-stickies with a visceral hate for the Provies of a strength I doubt exists in FG. Also PSF voters are hardly likely to vote FG and visa versa while as people might float between Labour and the Shinners, again in practise making their rivalary more bitter. Personally I think we are more likely to see PSF and FG than PSF and Labour...But at the end of the day when it comes down to getting that pension...
5intheface
28-03-2010, 01:35 PM
Is there anything concrete to suggest that SF are likely to achieve anything above standing still which you'd imagine would be of no use to them unless there is a very close finish? For whatever reasons, they are probably every other party's last choice.
Baron von Biffo
28-03-2010, 01:53 PM
Is there anything concrete to suggest that SF are likely to achieve anything above standing still which you'd imagine would be of no use to them unless there is a very close finish? For whatever reasons, they are probably every other party's last choice.
Never mind SF is there anything to suggest that the Greens will have any seats after the GE? On 5% you need a lot of transfers but FF wont have them to spare and after 5 years of the Greens blaming them for the mess, FG and Lab will hardly be too well disposed towards them.
A lot of people in the leadership of the Labour Party are ex-stickies with a visceral hate for the Provies of a strength I doubt exists in FG. Also PSF voters are hardly likely to vote FG and visa versa while as people might float between Labour and the Shinners, again in practise making their rivalary more bitter. Personally I think we are more likely to see PSF and FG than PSF and Labour...But at the end of the day when it comes down to getting that pension...
Your average workers party TD or MEP has traveled a long road since then, I think they could sit at the same table as SF if there was a merc in it. If Des O malley could sit with Haughey and the greens can sit with FF I cant see the difference. You are right that an election pack between FG and SF is a non runner and would actually damage both. But a pack by the three big parties of the left could work in the right right context. The high levels of support for FG now are largely an anti FF, "who will I vote for?" reaction. If people honestly think the leader of the next government could be a Labour one then they will go for it in big numbers. FG has alway been a party that looked after a certain layer of Irish society, how they can broaden that appeal is beyond me. The average FF voter is looking for a home, they vote pragmatically for people they believe can be elected to office, they are not going to "waste" votes on ideological wild cards, if you show them a program and demonstrate clearly how it could practically come about they will vote for it. If you don't, they wont.
At the end of the day it comes down to the line of names on a piece of paper on election day, most of us go for the least hated one that might get elected rather than the one we actually like the best who has no chance.
Fraxinus
28-03-2010, 01:56 PM
Would any party want to enter a pact with the Greens if they want to come out on top in the next election? The Greens are toxic at the moment and other parties would use that as a stick to beat Labour and SF with.
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 02:00 PM
Is there anything concrete to suggest that SF are likely to achieve anything above standing still which you'd imagine would be of no use to them unless there is a very close finish? For whatever reasons, they are probably every other party's last choice.
I can only speak about Dublin....Basically there are "two" PSFs I think in the 26 counties, the PSF of those who joined them based on the hunger strikes, Concerned Parents Against Drugs which came out of the heroin crisis in 80s Dublin or because they seemed a social movement that could actually bring about radicial change...Than of course you have the old hard-line Republicans (most of whom would have left them by now or who justify whats been going on based on a feeling of complete defeat)...The establishment hates and fears this PSF...Than you have the new happy-shiney Shinners most who have no understanding or even knowledge of the Provisional movements pre-GFA relationship to the state (there is a poster calling herself Factual on P.ie who represents this group)...The establishment dont have a problemn with this group...Think the Ferrises on side and Mary Lou on the other.
Your average workers party TD or MEP has traveled a long road since then, I think they could sit at the same table as SF if there was a merc in it. If Des O malley could sit with Haughey and the greens can sit with FF I cant see the difference. You are right that an election pack between FG and SF is a non runner and would actually damage both. But a pack by the three big parties of the left could work in the right right context. The high levels of support for FG now are largely an anti FF, "who will I vote for?" reaction. If people honestly think the leader of the next government could be a Labour one then they will go for it in big numbers. FG has alway been a party that looked after a certain layer of Irish society, how they can broaden that appeal is beyond me. The average FF voter is looking for a home, they vote pragmatically for people they believe can be elected to office, they are not going to "waste" votes on ideological wild cards, if you show them a program and demonstrate clearly how it could practically come about they will vote for it. If you don't, they wont.
At the end of the day it comes down to the line of names on a piece of paper on election day, most of us go for the least hated one that might get elected rather than the one we actually like the best who has no chance.
Voters don't get the mercs.
I think Rosa has a good point re transfers. We're still fighting a civil/anti imperialist war.
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 02:05 PM
I think when they actually get into the polling booth a lot of people will find themselves voting for Fianna Fail again.
I think when they actually get into the polling booth a lot of people will find themselves voting for Fianna Fail again.
No1 can see their dirty deed ! I think you're right.
Fraxinus
28-03-2010, 02:09 PM
I can only speak about Dublin....Basically there are "two" PSFs I think in the 26 counties, the PSF of those who joined them based on the hunger strikes, Concerned Parents Against Drugs which came out of the heroin crisis in 80s Dublin or because they seemed a social movement that could actually bring about radicial change...Than of course you have the old hard-line Republicans (most of whom would have left them by now or who justify whats been going on based on a feeling of complete defeat)...The establishment hates and fears this PSF...Than you have the new happy-shiney Shinners most who have no understanding or even knowledge of the Provisional movements pre-GFA relationship to the state (there is a poster calling herself Factual on P.ie who represents this group)...The establishment dont have a problemn with this group...Think the Ferrises on side and Mary Lou on the other.
Do you think they are the ones that have been leaving the party more recently Rosa? It is just hard to imagine Factual mingling with former prisoners and activists....if she's even genuinely involved in the party.
Fraxinus
28-03-2010, 02:11 PM
I think when they actually get into the polling booth a lot of people will find themselves voting for Fianna Fail again.
I'd agree, a lot will stand there thinking, "will the other crowd actually do any better". The sad reality of this apparent democracy.
Voters don't get the mercs.
I think Rosa has a good point re transfers. We're still fighting a civil/anti imperialist war.
Go an do a poll in Dublin and ask people under the age of thirty what stickies are, what the workers party was or even what provisional means?
I have news for you, they don't know, don't want to know either. If you tell them to vote one, two, three and I will give you a job and they believe you, they will vote for you. People did not vote FF for years because of the treaty, they voted for them because they responded to public opinion and delivered what people demanded of them, its that simple. Now they don't so there is a chance for someone else to.
I think when they actually get into the polling booth a lot of people will find themselves voting for Fianna Fail again.
Correct, they will vote for the least worst option. FF will make a great deal of hay now opposing the policies of their own government. If the only alternative come election time is a load of cranks that will get a couple hundred votes or FG, many will vote FF to keep FG down.
And how many voters are under 30 and in Dublin ?
It makes a difference Xray, even if not a massive one. Transfers are all important. So is parental advice for those under 30.
I'd agree, a lot will stand there thinking, "will the other crowd actually do any better". The sad reality of this apparent democracy.
And realistically if the alternative is a Kenny lead government with a few Labour faces it wont be much better. It wont be tired and corrupt and paralyzed, but it wont change much in the long term either. People at least deserve the choice at the next election of something different to what has been tried before.
Go an do a poll in Dublin and ask people under the age of thirty what stickies are, what the workers party was or even what provisional means?
I have news for you, they don't know, don't want to know either. If you tell them to vote one, two, three and I will give you a job and they believe you, they will vote for you. People did not vote FF for years because of the treaty, they voted for them because they responded to public opinion and delivered what people demanded of them, its that simple. Now they don't so there is a chance for someone else to.
Correct, they will vote for the least worst option. FF will make a great deal of hay now opposing the policies of their own government. If the only alternative come election time is a load of cranks that will get a couple hundred votes or FG, many will vote FF to keep FG down.
These posts seem contradictory.
The second seems to back up the point I made earlier.
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 02:19 PM
Go an do a poll in Dublin and ask people under the age of thirty what stickies are, what the workers party was or even what provisional means?
.
Oi! Im under 30!
And how many voters are under 30 and in Dublin ?
It makes a difference Xray, even if not a massive one. Transfers are all important. So is parental advice for those under 30.
The parents don't care either, the majority of people in Ireland are certainly under 35. Only people in those movements care about the internal politics of them. It is not relevant to current peoples problems in those areas.
For the past 100 years we have have splits of splits of splits all from the one original party. Its boring unless you were involved or are a politics geek.
Most people only tune in at election time, they decide who to vote for and get back to reading about the football and Jordan's marriage trouble. They will vote for whoever makes them a convincing promise of improving their life.
It is different in the North because everyone is political or in a coma.
Fraxinus
28-03-2010, 02:24 PM
And realistically if the alternative is a Kenny lead government with a few Labour faces it wont be much better. It wont be tired and corrupt and paralyzed, but it wont change much in the long term either. People at least deserve the choice at the next election of something different to what has been tried before.
I come from a house that will vote FF even if they bankrupted the country, indebted the nation for generations to come, while lining their own and the pockets of a few buddies with gold in the process...oh wait, they did, my house needs to be sectioned!:eek:
These posts seem contradictory.
The second seems to back up the point I made earlier.
Well the point I am trying to make is that you need to give those people a reason to put the number one somewhere other than beside the FF guy, that is possible, but it is not a given.
Fraxinus
28-03-2010, 02:26 PM
The parents don't care either, the majority of people in Ireland are certainly under 35. Only people in those movements care about the internal politics of them. It is not relevant to current peoples problems in those areas.
For the past 100 years we have have splits of splits of splits all from the one original party. Its boring unless you were involved or are a politics geek.
Most people only tune in at election time, they decide who to vote for and get back to reading about the football and Jordan's marriage trouble. They will vote for whoever makes them a convincing promise of improving their life.
It is different in the North because everyone is political or in a coma.
I wouldn't dismiss the parental influence straight out, a lot of young people I know that have no interest in politics will just vote for who the parents say is best....fuking pathetic if ya ask me.
Oi! Im under 30!
You are not a typical floating voter I am guessing. Nothing anyone says is going to change your mind, you are a mind changer rather than waiting to be convinced I suspect.
I wouldn't dismiss the parental influence straight out, a lot of young people I know that have no interest in politics will just vote for who the parents say is best....fuking pathetic if ya ask me.
There will be a a lot celtic tiger cubs starting to pay attention for themselves after the shock they have had recently. Ordinary people are totally shocked by the collapse of what appeared to be a reasonable system. They are scared and looking for a way out. The internal politics of tiny parties thirty years ago is not what will be to the forefront of their minds on election day.
No offence Xray, but your under 30' has changed to under 35's and now you are conceeding parental/civil war allegience.
Rosa made a valid point earlier re transfers.
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 02:42 PM
You are not a typical floating voter I am guessing. Nothing anyone says is going to change your mind, you are a mind changer rather than waiting to be convinced I suspect.
When I have voted in the past it was with a heavy heart for Provisional Sinn Fein and the Greens...This time I think I will be staying at home..
But honestly though politics in the 26 counties is boring and I know that sounds childish but Im not the only one who finds it completely dull. Very little seems to be geniunely at stake anymore between the parties..Though you could argue that FF are more socially conservative than FG and FG are further to the right on economic issues than FF...
No offence Xray, but your under 30' has changed to under 35's and now you are conceeding parental/civil war allegience.
Rosa made a valid point earlier re transfers.
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/popnbyage2006.htm
We have a huge young population, they are worried about now in the main.
Nobody is politics hates anyone else more than a FF TD hates his/her running mate, yet they manage to share transfers. Most of the candidates probably were still in school when any serious bitterness existed between parties of the left.
I do not think it is too much to ask a Labour TD to ask people to vote either Green of SF after voting number one for him. If he does that many will do it. The average voter will not even realise there is an issue between Labour and SF, that is my point. Even if it was explained to them it would bore them.
I mean if Labour can share power with FG and FF surely then can share it with SF.
I am not suggesting 100% of any group of voters can be secured, elections turns on a few hundred transfers at the end of a count. FF are experts at this, that is why they always get more seats than % in the election. At the level they are at now in the polls that will not work, they cannot bring in second TDs at the end on those polls. Someone else with 30%+ could if clever, Lab+SF+Green= 30+ in many parts of the country, as it stands that seat is not going to any of those parties. They need to wake up or settle for FG.
When I have voted in the past it was with a heavy heart for Provisional Sinn Fein and the Greens...This time I think I will be staying at home..
But honestly though politics in the 26 counties is boring and I know that sounds childish but Im not the only one who finds it completely dull. Very little seems to be geniunely at stake anymore between the parties..Though you could argue that FF are more socially conservative than FG and FG are further to the right on economic issues than FF...
People like you more than anyone else make me sad, I don't care who you vote for, but please vote for someone or run yourself. I know too many informed people for will not vote, if you don't vote, don't complain. Politics is dirty and requires compromise, but it is also worthwhile.
C. Flower
28-03-2010, 03:01 PM
Vote early, and vote often.....!
No, seriously, voting is fine so long as we see it as the beginning of what we need to do politically, not the end.
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 03:02 PM
People like you more than anyone else make me sad, I don't care who you vote for, but please vote for someone or run yourself. I know too many informed people for will not vote, if you don't vote, don't complain. Politics is dirty and requires compromise, but it is also worthwhile.
Look you vote for someone and give them a "mandate" to do whatever they want with even though you might not agree with half of what that person does or says every five years or so...We all know that voting isnt that important...Its much more important to be socially involved in your community around you or involved in political campaigns of whatever nature if you want to be "civically minded" than putting numbers in boxes now and again.
Look you vote for someone and give them a "mandate" to do whatever they want with even though you might not agree with half of what that person does or says every five years or so...We all know that voting isnt that important...Its much more important to be socially involved in your community around you or involved in political campaigns of whatever nature if you want to be "civically minded" than putting numbers in boxes now and again.
I agree, democracy is more than voting every 5 years. But someone needs to run the place and I think we should make every effort pick the best we can. Sure they will not run it as you would and may let you down, that's life. Ignoring it makes it worse.
C. Flower
28-03-2010, 03:06 PM
Do you think they are the ones that have been leaving the party more recently Rosa? It is just hard to imagine Factual mingling with former prisoners and activists....if she's even genuinely involved in the party.
Mary Lou went to a private South Dublin Girl's school. No sign of hunger strike about her. When Sarkhozy came here after Lisbon 1 she was too busy on her holiers to face him down. A careerist, through and through in my view.
I agree, democracy is more than voting every 5 years. But someone needs to run the place and I think we should make every effort pick the best we can. Sure they will not run it as you would and may let you down, that's life. Ignoring it makes it worse.
But what difference will it make once chancers and liars have their mercs secured for 5 years ?
'None of the Above' should be on every ballot paper. I'll vote then.
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 03:13 PM
Do you think they are the ones that have been leaving the party more recently Rosa? It is just hard to imagine Factual mingling with former prisoners and activists....if she's even genuinely involved in the party.
Well she votes for them and supports them, but I cant see her singing rebel songs in the shower...Christy Burke who would be very representative of the older PSF at least in Dublin that went along with the GFA recently left so join the dots.
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 03:17 PM
I agree, democracy is more than voting every 5 years. But someone needs to run the place and I think we should make every effort pick the best we can. Sure they will not run it as you would and may let you down, that's life. Ignoring it makes it worse.
Well who should I vote for than?
I used to vote for PSF because they at least were sorta anti-imperialist and Im anti-imperialist...but they have dropped that.
I used to vote for the Greens because they at least were sorta ecologist and I support the ecology movement...But they have shown themselves well...
So who running do I share anything with???
Well who should I vote for than?
I used to vote for PSF because they at least were sorta anti-imperialist and Im anti-imperialist...but they have dropped that.
I used to vote for the Greens because they at least were sorta ecologist and I support the ecology movement...But they have shown themselves well...
So who running do I share anything with???
That's only a question you can answer. Even if what you vote for does not get elected I think it is important to express ones opinion when given the chance. I used to fly home from abroad to vote. I may have voted for bad choices, but I voted.
It is very easy to dismiss you totally if you are not willing to put pencil to paper and that is exactly what people will do. I disagree with your politics, but I think the political scene would be richer if you played a full part in it.
You can pick your least worst choice or simply write a protest on the ballot if you wish, not voting is self defeating though.
Mary Lou went to a private South Dublin Girl's school. No sign of hunger strike about her. When Sarkhozy came here after Lisbon 1 she was too busy on her holiers to face him down. A careerist, through and through in my view.
To be brutally honest I think Mary Lou is the idea of someone from outside Dublin of what someone in Dublin would vote for. Her repeated front row seat is a total failure to understand the Dublin electorate and actually quite insulting to the electorate that rejected her.
What amazes me is the repeated attempt to flog a dead horse.
Certainly SF needed something in Dublin that was not all about the North, but Mary Lou was not it. Bacik is the same in Labour in my opinion.
C. Flower
28-03-2010, 03:30 PM
To be brutally honest I think Mary Lou is the idea of someone from outside Dublin of what someone in Dublin would vote for. Her repeated front row seat is a total failure to understand the Dublin electorate.
What amazes me is the repeated attempt to flog a dead horse.
Certainly SF needed something in Dublin that was not all about the North, but Mary Lou was not it. Bacik is the same in Labour in my opinion.
She had an extraordinarily swift rise in Sinn Fein to the policy making level of the Party and is put about as a future leader.
She had an extraordinarily swift rise in Sinn Fein to the policy making level of the Party and is put about as a future leader.
probably because she is not popular enough to actually be a real threat.
FF were wise to reject her,
She had an extraordinarily swift rise in Sinn Fein to the policy making level of the Party and is put about as a future leader.
Is she factual ? Where did she come from ?
probably because she is not popular enough to actually be a real threat.
FF were wise to reject her,
Question answered. Can't be upsetting the clique.
we should not speculate on people real identities, it undermines the site and trust in each other.
we should not speculate on people real identities, it undermines the site and trust in each other.
Apologies. Was made in jest.
Point taken.
C. Flower
28-03-2010, 03:37 PM
Is she factual ? Where did she come from ?
She came through a privileged education and "foundation" internship to employment as a "community organiser" to Fianna Fail, who would not nominate her to run as an electoral candidate, to Sinn Fein, who promoted her up the ranks lickety spit.
Her CV is finely embellished. It's all over on P.ie - I posted it there.( Moving house is a pain sometimes, you never find some things again )
Question answered. Can't be upsetting the clique.
Well the current leadership of SF is in place an very long time, eye brows would be raised in any other party if the same leader was in place for 25 years, regardless of how good. New blood is always healthy.
She came through a privileged education and "foundation" internship to employment as a "community organiser" to Fianna Fail, who would not nominate her to run as an electoral candidate, to Sinn Fein, who promoted her up the ranks lickety spit.
I have no problem with her back ground, education etc. I just don't think she is a great candidate. She is at best OK. Now having said that I am not someone that SF would be targeting for support so my opinion is not that relevant.
Apologies. Was made in jest.
Point taken.
sorry, I mis-read your post.
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 03:42 PM
Basically Mary Lou was promoted because she has a unscarey accent.
sorry, I mis-read your post.
So is ok to say Factual=Mary lou=Carpet bagger ? Just curious ;)
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 03:44 PM
I have no problem with her back ground, education etc. I just don't think she is a great candidate. She is at best OK. Now having said that I am not someone that SF would be targeting for support so my opinion is not that relevant.
I have met her twice...She isnt that bright at all...Letters after your name is no real compensation for not being able to actually think.
Basically Mary Lou was promoted because she has a unscarey accent.
Yes in a nut shell, but if they really wanted FF votes in the coping classes they should have listened to them before picking her. There is a reason FF did not run her. People are more likely to vote for someone that believes in something than someone who believes in anything, even if the something is not their own belief.
I have met her twice...She isnt that bright at all...Letters after your name is no real compensation for not being able to actually think.
And that is cruelly exposed on TV, there is a reason RTE cant get enough of her.
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 03:52 PM
Yes in a nut shell, but if they really wanted FF votes in the coping classes they should have listened to them before picking her. There is a reason FF did not run her. People are more likely to vote for someone that believes in something than someone who believes in anything, even if the something is not their own belief.
The question was where were they gonna get someone with a "nice accent" and letters after their name in a hurry?
The question was where were they gonna get someone with a "nice accent" and letters after their name in a hurry?
Yes, but the question should have been why do they want one in a hurry?
people saw thru it immediately
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 04:00 PM
Yes, but the question should have been why do they want one in a hurry?
people saw thru it immediately
Because even if people love to pretend it isnt so the 26 counties is an incredibly class ridden society. So it was important.
But yeah the Provisionals are pretty transparent. Im surprised they have got this far without a serious spilt.
But yeah the Provisionals are pretty transparent. Im surprised they have got this far without a serious spilt.
They haven't.
PSF hold their vote from attracting new voters and a few SDLP.
Old hands have either been dumped or left. (pun intended)
Because even if people love to pretend it isnt so the 26 counties is an incredibly class ridden society. So it was important.
But yeah the Provisionals are pretty transparent. Im surprised they have got this far without a serious spilt.
It may be important for them to have a genuinely middle class person, but there was no cumann with people like her in it and people knew that. A genuine working class candidate would get more middle class votes than a false middle class one. If you are likely to vote SF you cant be that into your accents in the first place I would have thought. If you wont vote for someone with a working class Dublin accent I suggest you are not really a SF target voter anyway so trying to please you is a waste of effort.
If someone like her turned up in a cumann meeting looking to join they would have looked at her like she had three heads.
C. Flower
28-03-2010, 04:06 PM
Because even if people love to pretend it isnt so the 26 counties is an incredibly class ridden society. So it was important.
But yeah the Provisionals are pretty transparent. Im surprised they have got this far without a serious spilt.
Xray got it right - people sense when someone is taking advantage. Ultimately, Joe Higgins, who people don't agree with, was elected because he is respected.
There has not been a split I suppose because there has been massive erosion. It wouldn't be apparent in the numbers: its like the Greens - a new type of person coming in to replace the ones who have left.
There was a grudging respect in left wing FF circles in Dublin for the way the SF old guard had penetrated very deprived areas, there was a genuine basis there to build popular support. It was a massive error to discard than and reinvent a paper thing copy of FF without any substance. The grass roots felt betrayed and the prospective left wing FFers lost interest. I think people way over estimate class as a factor in the floating vote. FF in Dublin is not a middle class comfy party traditionally or in reality. This was what SF were taking on.
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 04:17 PM
It may be important for them to have a genuinely middle class person, but there was no cumann with people like her in it and people knew that. A genuine working class candidate would get more middle class votes than a false middle class one. If you are likely to vote SF you cant be that into your accents in the first place I would have thought. If you wont vote for someone with a working class Dublin accent I suggest you are not really a SF target voter anyway so trying to please you is a waste of effort.
If someone like her turned up in a cumann meeting looking to join they would have looked at her like she had three heads.
Can you remember all the drama over Martin Ferris who I still am kind of fond of meeting the Volunteers who excueted that Special branch man just before the ceasefire?
Can you remember all the drama over Martin Ferris who I still am kind of fond of meeting the Volunteers who excueted that Special branch man just before the ceasefire?
Martin Ferris would not be elected in Dublin. Its horses for courses, you gotta let the locals pick the horse cause they know the course.
There is a traditional anti-Dublin, anti-free state thing going on in Republican circles in places like Kerry that date to the civil war. In Dublin people are far less tolerant of any such instincts as they would not regard the State forces now to be representative of the army in the civil war. The killing of that Garda really annoyed people, especially in Dublin. You did not have to be in Orga FG to be upset about that one.
Can you remember all the drama over Martin Ferris who I still am kind of fond of meeting the Volunteers who excueted that Special branch man just before the ceasefire?
The branch man that got shot because he'd killed a vol before ?
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 04:23 PM
Martin Ferris would not be elected in Dublin.
What do you mean? That if he ran in Dublin he wouldnt get elected or that its too hypothethical to consider seriously?
My point still stands that the geniune working class Shinners in the 90s would be geniunely scarey in a way that Joe Higgins just isnt.
RosaLuxembourg
28-03-2010, 04:24 PM
The branch man that got shot because he'd killed a vol before ?
Yes and was generally fond of kicking the crap out of Republicans. Thats what annoys me about factual...Her deliberate blissful ignorance about all these things.
What do you mean? That if he ran in Dublin he wouldnt get elected or that its too hypothethical to consider seriously?
My point still stands that the geniune working class Shinners in the 90s would be geniunely scarey in a way that Joe Higgins just isnt.
Just the simple fact that Dubliners now and then would not vote for him.
If they were to vote for a SF person it would have to be a genuine Dublin one that had done real work on the ground in Dublin. A "scarey" shinner would have been a turn off alrite I agree.
They had some success where that was the case. The same people would not be elected in Tralee I suspect.
The vast majority of people totally deplore any action against Gardai, including I suspect the majority of SF voters in Dublin so having anything to do publicly with that is a major no no if you want to be elected.
The branch man that got shot because he'd killed a vol before ?
I doubt it, It looked like a spur of the moment thing to me that happened during a robbery. A major mistake in every sense I would say.
Seems everybody knows the stories except you Xray. He was no bystander.
Seems everybody knows the stories except you Xray. He was no bystander.
Blissful ignorance will do me on this one, its a long way from a discussion on a viable left wing coalition option in the next election.
True. (must stay on topic or risk infraction :) )
Cáthasaigh
28-03-2010, 07:11 PM
I doubt it, It looked like a spur of the moment thing to me that happened during a robbery. A major mistake in every sense I would say.
I've heard it said that McCabe shot dead IRA man Hugh Hehir from Co Clare, during a post office robbery, in what was essentially a state-sanctioned execution.
C. Flower
28-03-2010, 09:10 PM
Was McGuinness not quite adamant that, that would not happen?
SF talking out of the side of their mouth again?
He created that impression, but left room for manoeuvre.
mutley
28-03-2010, 09:13 PM
He created that impression, but left room for manoeuvre.
I can't see SF making any headway in the South, so it's probabally irrelevant anyway
C. Flower
28-03-2010, 09:19 PM
I can't see SF making any headway in the South, so it's probabally irrelevant anyway
Gerry Adams made it pretty clear that they would consider coalition with FF.
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