"Lemass" Forum enrages Cowen

[Xray]

http://www.irishexaminer.ie/ireland/cowen-and-cohorts-furious-over-backbencher-rumblings-115607.html



20 TDs? That is serious stuff.

[Timetochange]

Mj Nolan has come out on KCLR today as well

[Rich]

It is a bit like the Tory 1922 Committee. It could end up quite powerful.

[C. Flower]

A number said they have never seen such a level of unhappiness in the party but feel it would be impossible to organise a heave against Cowen unless there is a willingness by a senior minister to take his place.

"There is no other show in town. There is nobody else willing to take the job and we couldn’t continue to govern with a second Taoiseach who did not have a mandate from the people," said one TD.

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.ie/ireland/cowen-and-cohorts-furious-over-backbencher-rumblings-115607.html#ixzz0jIHCcbme (http://www.irishexaminer.ie/ireland/cowen-and-cohorts-furious-over-backbencher-rumblings-115607.html#ixzz0jIHCcbme)

Hmm.

[Sidewinder]

Why are they looking for a "senior minister" to lead the coup?

The senior Ministers are all toxic. FFS lads, get a clue, realise that if FF is to survive at all they'll have to ditch the entire Ahern mob and put clear blue water between "new FF" and "Ahern/Cowen FF", line up a few untainted young turks and establish yourselves now as the clean fresh "next generation", waiting in the wings to retake control of the party and lead it in a completely different direction.

Or are ye just another shower of idiot gombeens playing the old "opposition within government" whatever-yer-having-yerself FF populism game?

[Xray]

Why are they looking for a "senior minister" to lead the coup?

The senior Ministers are all toxic. FFS lads, get a clue, realise that if FF is to survive at all they'll have to ditch the entire Ahern mob and put clear blue water between "new FF" and "Ahern/Cowen FF", line up a few untainted young turks and establish yourselves now as the clean fresh "next generation", waiting in the wings to retake control of the party and lead it in a completely different direction.

Or are ye just another shower of idiot gombeens playing the old "opposition within government" whatever-yer-having-yerself FF populism game?


That maybe exactly what they are doing, by putting it up to the safe brigade they leave the option of following your advice. A new "clean" FF energes.

[Xray]

It is a bit like the Tory 1922 Committee. It could end up quite powerful.

The only problem with that being there will only be about 8 backbench FF TDs soon.

[ZANU-FF]

Why are they looking for a "senior minister" to lead the coup?

The senior Ministers are all toxic. FFS lads, get a clue, realise that if FF is to survive at all they'll have to ditch the entire Ahern mob and put clear blue water between "new FF" and "Ahern/Cowen FF", line up a few untainted young turks and establish yourselves now as the clean fresh "next generation", waiting in the wings to retake control of the party and lead it in a completely different direction.

Or are ye just another shower of idiot gombeens playing the old "opposition within government" whatever-yer-having-yerself FF populism game?

Very very valid Sidewinder

Thats the only hope the back bench FF gimps have if they wish to survive an electorate baying for FF blood.

[Digout]

Interestingly, this committee has met with the cops and the army.

[Fraxinus]

I'd say this is mainly about the boys being afraid of their sh1te come the next election than any real ideological breakaway.

[Digout]

I'd say this is mainly about the boys being afraid of their sh1te come the next election than any real ideological breakaway.

Spot on, they can vote against the government if they want.

[Xray]

It is a real pickle, do they oppose a very unpopular leader and cause and election - NO
Do take over and become the hated leader - NO
Bet they are sorry now they did not pay more attention to the policies they waved thru year after year.
What do they do?

[Baron von Biffo]

Wasn't there a short-lived FF back bench group under Bertie's reign too? Bertie gave sinecures to the leaders and the group evaporated.

[Buddha]

These "rats" are only starting to leave the sinking ship since they realised how much publicity John McGuinness is getting by his outspoken comments. They are desperately thinking of ways to save their seats.

Why they did not leave their seats and go vote in the NO Lobby even once during the last ten years is a question they should be asked?

[C. Flower]

Has anything more been heard of this group ?

[Digout]

Has anything more been heard of this group ?

I read something in Phoenix a few weeks back, apparently it was growing in numbers until word got out that Cowen had a spy in the group.....

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I suspect it was the backbench FF TD's way of joining Dan 'Tweetie Bird' Boyle at pretending to oppose while voting whichever way one is told.

It'll be like the GPO at the doorsteps next election; every FF TD trying to make out they were heaving against Cowen when in reality they are doing nothing of the sort.

The moment the next election is announced I would suggest recording the NAMA voters and all those involved in the O'Dea fiasco etc and producing a list by constituency to countermand this rubbish on the doorsteps.

Not much point an FF TD claiming they were 'agin it' when the evidence is available to say otherwise.

[Digout]

I suspect it was the backbench FF TD's way of joining Dan 'Tweetie Bird' Boyle at pretending to oppose while voting whichever way one is told.

It'll be like the GPO at the doorsteps next election; every FF TD trying to make out they were heaving against Cowen when in reality they are doing nothing of the sort.

The moment the next election is announced I would suggest recording the NAMA voters and all those involved in the O'Dea fiasco etc and producing a list by constituency to countermand this rubbish on the doorsteps.

Not much point an FF TD claiming they were 'agin it' when the evidence is available to say otherwise.

I will have a live website the people can download the sins of each FFer from. The things they voted for etc.

[C. Flower]

I would think its a certainty that some FF TDs are preparing for a world post Brians.

[Digout]

I would think its a certainty that some FF TDs are preparing for a world post Brians.

Thats a life on the dole for most of them.

[C. Flower]

Interestingly, this committee has met with the cops and the army.

I agree that that's interesting. What was the agenda ?

[Digout]

I agree that that's interesting. What was the agenda ?

Its the same as the Tory party committee, a place for disaffected backbenchers to mouth off about the leadership. FF copying the brits once more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1922_Committee

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Now there's an interesting subject. I could make a decent fist of an argument that Fianna Fail are the biggest bunch of westbrits since the rising.

De Valera it appears was a Crown pensioner

in the modern day it appears Aherne is happy to bow to a member of the British House of Lords who happens to be the head of his Papal Order

What was the Galway tent only an attempt by peasants to form their own habit-of-the-elite by imitating what they see as the behaviour of their betters?

Has anyone noticed how Fianna Fail mattresses started all double-barrelling their names because they obviously think, in true Essex girl fashion, that it makes them sound more classy?

Anybody noticed how many of these MDF ranchos in the sticks belonging to FF developers/politicos have English sounding names?

I'd sussed this lot at the age of 17 when I wwent along out of curiosity to see the count and election at a local school. I couldn't help noticing that the Fianna Failers were behaving like conservatives at some farty home counties fete- they had hired a lady to serve them tea and biscuits and were busily ordering her around as if she was **** off their shoe.

There's nothing worse than an envious little gombeen trying to ape what he's seen on the telly.

[Digout]

Now there's an interesting subject. I could make a decent fist of an argument that Fianna Fail are the biggest bunch of westbrits since the rising.

De Valera it appears was a Crown pensioner

in the modern day it appears Aherne is happy to bow to a member of the British House of Lords who happens to be the head of his Papal Order

What was the Galway tent only an attempt by peasants to form their own habit-of-the-elite by imitating what they see as the behaviour of their betters?

Has anyone noticed how Fianna Fail mattresses started all double-barrelling their names because they obviously think, in true Essex girl fashion, that it makes them sound more classy?

Anybody noticed how many of these MDF ranchos in the sticks belonging to FF developers/politicos have English sounding names?

I'd sussed this lot at the age of 17 when I wwent along out of curiosity to see the count and election at a local school. I couldn't help noticing that the Fianna Failers were behaving like conservatives at some farty home counties fete- they had hired a lady to serve them tea and biscuits and were busily ordering her around as if she was **** off their shoe.

There's nothing worse than an envious little gombeen trying to ape what he's seen on the telly.

I twigged it years ago also. The long driveways are a give away.

[Slim Buddha]

It is a real pickle, do they oppose a very unpopular leader and cause and election - NO
Do take over and become the hated leader - NO
Bet they are sorry now they did not pay more attention to the policies they waved thru year after year.
What do they do?

Sorry to change your text slightly, X-Ray, but it needs to be done:

"Bet they are sorry now they did not pay more attention to the PD policies designed by Harney, McCreevy and IBEC they waved thru year after year"

[disability student]

Now there's an interesting subject. I could make a decent fist of an argument that Fianna Fail are the biggest bunch of westbrits since the rising.

De Valera it appears was a Crown pensioner

in the modern day it appears Aherne is happy to bow to a member of the British House of Lords who happens to be the head of his Papal Order

What was the Galway tent only an attempt by peasants to form their own habit-of-the-elite by imitating what they see as the behaviour of their betters?

Has anyone noticed how Fianna Fail mattresses started all double-barrelling their names because they obviously think, in true Essex girl fashion, that it makes them sound more classy?

Anybody noticed how many of these MDF ranchos in the sticks belonging to FF developers/politicos have English sounding names?

I'd sussed this lot at the age of 17 when I wwent along out of curiosity to see the count and election at a local school. I couldn't help noticing that the Fianna Failers were behaving like conservatives at some farty home counties fete- they had hired a lady to serve them tea and biscuits and were busily ordering her around as if she was **** off their shoe.

There's nothing worse than an envious little gombeen trying to ape what he's seen on the telly.

Yeah i agree with you re as FF are quite close to the tories which i never thought about it until now when i saw your post.

[Sidewinder]

Now there's an interesting subject. I could make a decent fist of an argument that Fianna Fail are the biggest bunch of westbrits since the rising.

De Valera it appears was a Crown pensioner

in the modern day it appears Aherne is happy to bow to a member of the British House of Lords who happens to be the head of his Papal Order

What was the Galway tent only an attempt by peasants to form their own habit-of-the-elite by imitating what they see as the behaviour of their betters?

Has anyone noticed how Fianna Fail mattresses started all double-barrelling their names because they obviously think, in true Essex girl fashion, that it makes them sound more classy?

Anybody noticed how many of these MDF ranchos in the sticks belonging to FF developers/politicos have English sounding names?

I'd sussed this lot at the age of 17 when I wwent along out of curiosity to see the count and election at a local school. I couldn't help noticing that the Fianna Failers were behaving like conservatives at some farty home counties fete- they had hired a lady to serve them tea and biscuits and were busily ordering her around as if she was **** off their shoe.

There's nothing worse than an envious little gombeen trying to ape what he's seen on the telly.

And under Ahern the massive re-Anglicisation of what remains of Irish culture - the telly, the tabloids, the shops. The decisive shift back under the US/UK umbrella in geopolitics. The decisive shift towards being a satellite flunky of the UK in the EU. The intense and constant softening-up barrage of deranged wibbling about "shared history" and the "positive role of Ireland in the Empire" and "remembering our honoured dead (as long as they were wearing a British uniform)". The servile caving to every British "normalisation" demand all through the peace process. No wonder Paisley ended his career unable to stop laughing.

And now we're bankrupt and the Independence project has collapsed into a grubby corrupt pig-people farce.

All under the watch of a man in constant receipt of large amounts of undisclosed Sterling.

Coincidence me arse.

[C. Flower]

And under Ahern the massive re-Anglicisation of what remains of Irish culture - the telly, the tabloids, the shops. The decisive shift back under the US/UK umbrella in geopolitics. The decisive shift towards being a satellite flunky of the UK in the EU. The intense and constant softening-up barrage of deranged wibbling about "shared history" and the "positive role of Ireland in the Empire" and "remembering our honoured dead (as long as they were wearing a British uniform)". The servile caving to every British "normalisation" demand all through the peace process. No wonder Paisley ended his career unable to stop laughing.

And now we're bankrupt and the Independence project has collapsed into a grubby corrupt pig-people farce.

All under the watch of a man in constant receipt of large amounts of undisclosed Sterling.

Coincidence me arse.


Interesting post. Do we have no idea at all where the Sterling came from ?

[Sidewinder]

Interesting post. Do we have no idea at all where the Sterling came from ?

Well I think my opinion on the matter should be clear. Add to the evidence above the fact that he was getting large amounts of Sterling in the weeks leading up to him knifing Reynolds in the back at a critical juncture in the fledgling peace process.

To my mind the evidence might all be circumstantial but put it all together and it paints a pretty damning picture of who Bertie's real paymasters were - and it wasn't the builders.

We don't know for certain where the sterling actually came from, and if I am right then we never will. Bertie claimed it came from whiprounds by dead businessmen; a highly unusual house purchase and decoration scheme with yer man Wall; and betting on the gee-gees.

I leave it to the forum members to decide which explanation is, on balance, the most plausible :D

[C. Flower]

Well I think my opinion on the matter should be clear. Add to the evidence above the fact that he was getting large amounts of Sterling in the weeks leading up to him knifing Reynolds in the back at a critical juncture in the fledgling peace process.

To my mind the evidence might all be circumstantial but put it all together and it paints a pretty damning picture of who Bertie's real paymasters were - and it wasn't the builders.

We don't know for certain where the sterling actually came from, and if I am right then we never will. Bertie claimed it came from whiprounds by dead businessmen; a highly unusual house purchase and decoration scheme with yer man Wall; and betting on the gee-gees.

I leave it to the forum members to decide which explanation is, on balance, the most plausible :D

So why did they want to get rid of Reynolds?

[Sidewinder]

So why did they want to get rid of Reynolds?

Too bolshie for their tastes, wanted to move things far too quickly for the mandarins who like to take things nice and slooooooow, fought his corner like a terrier, and actually for an FF crook Reynolds had some sense of Ireland as an independent nation.

The mandarins looked at the alternative Taoisigh in John Brutal and Da Bert and liked what they saw.

The whole Smyth/Duggan farce was such an obvious black op. Unfortunately for Da Bert the Dáil cameras recorded him sticking that critical memo in his pocket then furtively glancing around, instead of passing it to Reynolds like he was supposed to.

Bought and paid for, Da Bert.

[C. Flower]

Too bolshie for their tastes, wanted to move things far too quickly for the mandarins who like to take things nice and slooooooow, fought his corner like a terrier, and actually for an FF crook Reynolds had some sense of Ireland as an independent nation.

The mandarins looked at the alternative Taoisigh in John Brutal and Da Bert and liked what they saw.

The whole Smyth/Duggan farce was such an obvious black op. Unfortunately for Da Bert the Dáil cameras recorded him sticking that critical memo in his pocket then furtively glancing around, instead of passing it to Reynolds like he was supposed to.

Bought and paid for, Da Bert.

Always thought Reynolds was bumped out of office - just couldn't understand why. Interesting to see how it happened - I posted a thread on Politics.ie on it.

[Digout]

Bought and paid for, Da Bert.

All around the same time as a load of the Queens sterling arrived into a certain mans possession? The same man that the got very hard to work on Ireland ending its claim on the north?

[disability student]

Always thought Reynolds was bumped out of office - just couldn't understand why. Interesting to see how it happened - I posted a thread on Politics.ie on it.

It's a possibility that da Bertie wanted him out of the office as he deliberately withheld the file re Fr Smyth that Finlay then Spring's advisor wanted to grab it and look in it. It was that file that led the collapse of 'trust' between both parties. The die was cast by then.

[Digout]

It's a possibility that da Bertie wanted him out of the office as he deliberately withheld the file re Fr Smyth that Finlay then Spring's advisor wanted to grab it and look in it. It was that file that led the collapse of 'trust' between both parties. The die was cast by then.

Da bert was passed the info, he then let Albert make a false statement about a file that was under the control of the Queens police force up north. Odd, all very odd. All at the same time as a load of sterling cash lands.

[disability student]

Da bert was passed the info, he then let Albert make a false statement about a file that was under the control of the Queens police force up north. Odd, all very odd. All at the same time as a load of sterling cash lands.

Who passed the info to bass Ahern re file? AG or Harry Whelan or some Gardai commissioner??:rolleyes:

[Digout]

Who passed the info to bass Ahern re file? AG or Harry Whelan or some Gardai commissioner??:rolleyes:

I heard it was the AG, it went straight into aherns pocket anyway. He made sure Albert misled the Dail. That was back in the BB (before bert) days when misleading the Dail was serious, sadly now in the AB (after bert) days, misleading the Dail is the norm.

Sterling well spent by the brits.

[disability student]

I heard it was the AG, it went straight into aherns pocket anyway. He made sure Albert misled the Dail. That was back in the BB (before bert) days when misleading the Dail was serious, sadly now in the AB (after bert) days, misleading the Dail is the norm.

Sterling well spent by the brits.

I wonder who was that AG?? Peter Sutherland by any chance???

[Digout]

I wonder who was that AG?? Peter Sutherland by any chance???

I aint sure, do you know?

[disability student]

I aint sure, do you know?

What year was it? i will google it and hopefully find it.

P Sutherland was an AG back then but i don't know which period was he in for??

[disability student]

Found it : It was Harry Whelehan then AG at that time.


See here re FF doubts re Ray Burke.


CALLS were made last night for Taoiseach Bertie Ahern to explain why Fianna Fáil had doubts about the suitability of Ray Burke to hold a ministerial position as far back as 1994.
Fine Gael has demanded answers from Mr Ahern as to why he was content to appoint Mr Burke as his Minister for Foreign Affairs last year despite concerns about his possible involvement in controversial land rezonings in north Dublin.
The Taoiseach's judgement is being questioned after former Labour Party adviser, Fergus Finlay revealed that several Fianna Fáil ministers had offered to drop Mr Burke from the Cabinet if it could save the FF-Labour coalition after the resignation of Albert Reynolds.
Mr Burke's role in planning decisions and payments over land in north Dublin is currently the subject of a Tribunal of Inquiry. He was forced to resign from the Government last year after continuous pressure from the Opposition parties over his business past.
It was later revealed that he had failed to disclose the full details of payments he received from a number of business people.
In his book, Snakes and Ladders to be published this week, Mr Finlay records the break-up of the coalition caused by the Fr Brendan Smyth paedophile case and its handling by then Attorney General, Harry Whelehan.
During talks on the possible formation of a new FF-Labour alliance under Mr Ahern, it was suggested to the then Tánaiste and Labour leader, Dick Spring, that Mr Burke would not be considered for a ministerial post if it was a problem for the minor coalition partner.
"They seemed to be dropping hints that they wouldn't mind us objecting to his inclusion in the Cabinet," says Mr Finlay in his book.
He admitted that Labour found this attitude puzzling. "We knew that Ray Burke wouldn't have been popular - in fact he was hated by many of the Fianna Fáil people who had been in the ascendancy under Albert Reynolds."
Mr Finlay also revealed that Mr Ahern had told Mr Spring that he suspected his phone was being bugged during the Fianna Fáil leadership contest. "Dick didn't know whether he was being paranoid," said Mr Finlay.
Fine Gael Foreign Affairs spokesperson Gay Mitchell said the reports cast further doubt over the Taoiseach's role in the on-going controversy surrounding Mr Burke.
"If the Taoiseach was prepared to drop Ray Burke in order to set up a Fianna Fáil-led coalition government under his leadership, he has recklessly contributed to the political demise of Mr Burke by including him in a later cabinet only to force his resignation within months," said Mr Mitchell.
He said it was important for the Taoiseach to explain what had caused him to change his mind about dropping Mr Burke in 1994 and then three years later appointing him to the Foreign Affairs portfolio. Mr Mitchell said the public was entitled to an explanation.

[Digger Out]

I believe the class act, Bev Cooper Flynn is part of this act.

[Digout]

I believe the class act, Bev Cooper Flynn is part of this act.

Cowens spy.