SF wins byelection challenge!! Donegal Bye Election before End of November

[Newsy]

The High Court has upheld a legal challenge by Sinn Féin aimed at forcing the Government to hold the long-awaited byelection in Donegal South West.

In his ruling today, Mr Justice Nicholas Kearns said there had been an “unreasonable delay” in the moving the writ for the byelection.

Sinn Féin Senator Pearse Doherty had taken the issue to judicial review, calling for a date to be set for the vote after a seat in the constituency has lain empty for more than 16 months.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1103/breaking10.html

A great win.

What happens now???

[Cato]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1103/breaking10.html

A great win.

What happens now???

The government will of course appeal it to the SC using our money to deny us the right to representation. Democracy eh?

[Ah Well]

The government will of course appeal it to the SC using our money to deny us the right to representation. Democracy eh?

Presumably they have to get leave to appeal? No mention on that IT Article

[Andrew49]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1103/breaking10.html

A great win.

What happens now???

I imagine an appeal to the Supreme Court - I don't think the Government will like the High Court telling it what to do. We can't be having the courts of the land overriding the elect ...... :rolleyes:

[C. Flower]

I think that they may already have said they wouldn't appeal - Our previous thread would say.

[yehbut_nobut]

Someone on t'other side says SF have already filed a motion to move the writ in the Dail. That'll be a fun debate to watch.

[Cato]

I think that they may already have said they wouldn't appeal - Our previous thread would say.

It's kind of sweet that you believe them and take them at their word. Oh for more innocent days...

[ang]

Positive news at last. yaaaaaaaay

[Ah Well]

Far from the court tearing asunder the provisions of the Constitution by adjudicating on this application, he said it was the ongoing failure to move the writ for this bye-election since June 2009, which offended the terms and spirit of the Constitution and its framework for democratic representation.

A very damning comment by the Judge - couldn't have put it better

The Gov should be ashamed of itself - that word doesn't prob come into its vocabulary

[C. Flower]

It's kind of sweet that you believe them and take them at their word. Oh for more innocent days...

Thank you. Its kind of nice to be called sweet after some of the things I've been called so far this morning.

But the reason I think an Appeal is unlikely is that politically that might be the spark that would provoke serious anger and pressure for a General Election.

[Newsy]

Someone on t'other side says SF have already filed a motion to move the writ in the Dail. That'll be a fun debate to watch.

It surely will.

[C. Flower]

On Pat Kenny now.

Waterford and Dublin South affected by the ruling too.

Pierce Doherty says that the Court decision means the delay should be no more than 90 days.

The aim - "to stand up for the rights of the people of Donegal North West and to bring this Government down"

[Ah Well]

On Pat Kenny now.

Waterford and Dublin South affected by the ruling too.

Pierce Doherty says that the Court decision means the delay should be no more than 90 days.

Question now is .... will Cowen go to the Aras sooner rather than later?

[C. Flower]

It doesn't contribute to the stability of the Government. Next up, the students.

[Ah Well]

It doesn't contribute to the stability of the Government. Next up, the students.

No it doesn't indeed - I would think today is extremely significant ... the beginning of the end for this Gov and we can now see it.

[Newsy]

But the reason I think an Appeal is unlikely is that politically that might be the spark that would provoke serious anger and pressure for a General Election.

I wouldn't put anything past them.

[DCon]

FF will say that it cannot be held until the Budget is decided, then 6 weeks Christmas holidays straight after will bring us to mid January. Then they will announce a date 3/4 months from there

[C. Flower]

I wouldn't put anything past them.

They're damned if they do and damned if they don't.


offended the terms and spirit of the Constitution

[Ah Well]

They're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Good
Good
GOOD

:D

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Bloody well done Pearse Doherty!

[C. Flower]

FF will say that it cannot be held until the Budget is decided, then 6 weeks Christmas holidays straight after will bring us to mid January. Then they will announce a date 3/4 months from there

Not legal, imo.

If they go to the Supreme Court it will have to be judged on promptly, because of the nature of the case (about timeliness).

[C. Flower]

Independent Report

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/byelection-delay-offends-spirit-of-the-constitution-2405710.html

[TotalMayhem]

FF will say that

... the Highcopurt ruling doesn't please the international money markets.

[eoinmn]

I think the correct course of action now is for the government to admit they got it wrong, apologise to the electorate in Donegal and today call the by-elections for one month from now.

[C. Flower]

The Government has offended the spirit of the Constitution by failing to hold the long-awaited Donegal South-West by-election, the High Court ruled today.

Mr Justice Nicholas Kearns supported Sinn Fein's claim that the writ for the vote should have been moved some time in the 16 months since the seat became empty.

But the judge stopped short of ordering the Government to set a date for the crucial by-election.

"I am satisfied that the delay in this case is so inordinate as to amount to a breach of the applicant's constitutional rights to such a degree as to warrant the court granting some form of relief," Mr Justice Kearns, High Court President, said.

"Far from the court 'tearing asunder' the provisions of the Constitution by adjudicating on this application, it is the ongoing failure to move the writ for this by-election since June 2009 which offends the terms and spirit of the Constitution and its framework for democracy."

Sinn Fein Senator Pearse Doherty has repeatedly called for the by-election since former TD Pat "the Cope" Gallagher won a seat in Europe.

Despite assurances from the Government that the vote would be arranged in the spring, the battle went to judicial review last month.

The party said it will move a writ in the Dail tomorrow calling for a date to be set for the poll.

The ball is in Brian's court now.

[JMcgynty]

Sinn Fein recognising the Irish Courts ? thats irony,
or is it only when it suits them

[moss]

Sinn Fein recognising the Irish Courts ? thats irony,
or is it only when it suits them

Perhaps you'd like to tell us when they didn't as you seem like such an expert ?

[JMcgynty]

Moss, if you want to live in denial of what Sinn Fein IRA are, thats fine

[C. Flower]

Sinn Fein recognising the Irish Courts ? thats irony,
or is it only when it suits them

And your opinion of the Judge's decision is ?

[moss]

Moss, if you want to live in denial of what Sinn Fein IRA are, thats fine


Put up or shut up.

[JMcgynty]

The judge did not make a decision he made a comment, i agree with the judge

[C. Flower]

The judge did not make a decision he made a comment, i agree with the judge

We're both wrong, he made a ruling :)

We don't pay him all that just to comment.

[JMcgynty]

there is nothing to put up moss, the world and its mother knows every time they were brought to court they said they did not recognise it

[moss]

there is nothing to put up moss, the world and its mother knows every time they were brought to court they said they did not recognise it

Strange then that the Irish media are not running with that story you've just broke.
Why was this not reported when Pearse first took the case :confused:

You could've beeen minted if you sold this this story rather than ***** on an internet site.

Now, last time, are you going to ***** or are you gonna put up or shut up ?

[antiestablishmentarian]

Right, moss and JMcgynty, get back on topic. This thread is not about SF and their position on the 26 county state but about the decision to move the writ and what is likely to happen now etc. If ye want to start a thread on SF and their recognition of the courts, fire away, but keep this thread on topic.

[JMcgynty]

To get back to the writh then, there is a possibility that fianna fail could win the donegall by election if and when itis called

[Slim Buddha]

Moss, if you want to live in denial of what Sinn Fein IRA are, thats fine

I know what Sinn Fein/IRA are. I know what Fianna Fail /CIF are. And I know which of them is the bigger threat to me.

Pearse Doherty is having a very good week!

[yehbut_nobut]

Here's how by-elections happen (or should happen!): Following a seat vacancy the Dáil can issue a Writ to the Returning Officer of that constituency to hold an election to fill the vacancy. (info from citizens info.ie)

Definition of a Writ: "a formal written order issued by a body with administrative or judicial jurisdiction."

If the government fails to act, the court itself could issue the Wriot to the Returning Officer in Donegal? Unprecedented, but possible?

[BrendanGalway]

So what happens now? The judge stopped short of setting a date which leaves me less enthusiastic than the rest of ye. This line :

"The Government has offended the spirit of the Constitution by failing to hold the long-awaited Donegal South West byelection"

Haven't they already offended our constitution by siding with the Financial Sector over the people of the country, bringing the Nation to the verge of Bankruptcy?

All the Judge has done is confirm that we serve under a Parliament of Gombeens. Sure, we can try to shame them into action tomorrow but when your dealing with a Government without Shame or Principal or Honour, what can you reasonably expect they will do?

Does anyone think FF will respond to this bar "Its not the right time, after the budget etc etc"?

[yehbut_nobut]

Judges ruling:

“...I am satisfied that once the Government is made aware of the situation with regard to this constitutional injustice, it will take the necessary steps to have the matter remedied in accordance with the law and in accordance with its constitutional obligation...

The court might in another case following on from this one feel constrained to take a more serious view if any government, and not just necessarily the present one, was seen by the courts to be acting in clear disregard of an applicant’s constitutional rights in continually refusing over an unreasonable period of time to move the writ for a by-election.

That the Court can intervene in a more draconian way in extreme cases to protect constitutional obligations was made clear by O’Flaherty J in O’Malley v An Ceann Comhairle [1997] 1 I.R. 427 and by Murray CJ in TD v Minister for Education [2001] 4 I.R. 259 at p. 337. This is not yet such a case but in my opinion it is not far short of it.

I'mnot a legal mind, but I think it's possible the Courts could bypass the oireachtas and issue the writ to the Returning officer(s) directly.

[antiestablishmentarian]

Judges ruling:


I'mnot a legal mind, but I think it's possible the Courts could bypass the oireachtas and issue the writ to the Returning officer(s) directly.

They possibly can, but there's also the separation of powers to bear in mind and it seems that they don't consider this to be serious enough yet to justify overriding that separation.

[Dr. FIVE]

Greens push pushing for DSW to be held on its own ffs.

[moss]

And so the procrastination begins.

Mr Cowen said when the issue was raised on the Order of Business said he could not comment on the judgment until it he had considered it.
"I've given no intention as to what our intentions would be regarding any outcome until we have a chance," he said. "The Government will now consider the judgment and its implications" and any "further comment prior to this consideration" would be premature.
In a statement, Government chief whip John Curran said "the Government notes the ruling of the High Court today. We argued in Court that Article 16.7 of the Constitution imposed no times limit for the holding of byelections but left the matter to the oireachas and that the Oireachtas had not imposed any time limit in the legislation. The Court took the view that there should be implied into the legislation a requirement that byelections be held within a reasonable time."http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1103/breaking47.html


I smell an appeal.

[eoinmn]

Do you reckon McDaid had been tipped off?

[yehbut_nobut]

RTÉ news at one say they'll have Dan Boyle on at 1.30

[DCon]

RTÉ news at one say they'll have Dan Boyle on at 1.30

He has been Twittering too


# @conor_pope I've said the delay in Donegal SW is already too long. Do I think we should have a general election because of that? No. about 20 hours ago via web in reply to conor_pope

# @Paul__Duggan People still have TDs in their area. It isn't non representation it's under-representation.

http://twitter.com/sendboyle

[C. Flower]

He has been Twittering too



http://twitter.com/sendboyle

Disagrees with the Judge, then.

A lot of FFers are saying there should be bye elections.

[yehbut_nobut]

Those tweets were from last night, before the Judgement.

On radio now saying they still want them held in Spring - not good enough.

[Newsy]

Those tweets were from last night, before the Judgement.

On radio now saying they still want them held in Spring - not good enough.

Opportunists to the last.....want other by-elections same day as DUBLIN MAYOR

Pathetic.

[moss]

BBC just reported about 'the Irish governments reluctance to hold a by election'

Then Pearse on talking about taking them 'kicking and screaming' to court.

[yehbut_nobut]

BBC just reported about 'the Irish governments reluctance to hold a by election'

Then Pearse on talking about taking them 'kicking and screaming' to court.

I do love the BBC, but god bless em, They've put the Donegal SW story in their "Northern Ireland" news section. Twits.


Sinn Fein wins Donegal by-election High Court ruling (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11685439)

[moss]

I do love the BBC, but god bless em, They've put the Donegal SW story in their "Northern Ireland" news section. Twits.


Sinn Fein wins Donegal by-election High Court ruling (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11685439)

For the love of empire, you couldn't make that up.

[Sidewinder]

I do love the BBC, but god bless em, They've put the Donegal SW story in their "Northern Ireland" news section. Twits.


Sinn Fein wins Donegal by-election High Court ruling (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11685439)

*shrugs*

The overwhelming majority of ordinary Britons have only the very vaguest notions about Ireland, and to most of them the intricacies of partition and Irish politics in general is just more of that mystifying weird stuff that heathen natives in foreign places get up to. There's just zero connection inside their own heads between the state of modern Ireland and their own Govt's policies and actions over the last few hundred years.

[yehbut_nobut]

Greens Parliamentary Party decides Donegal South West by-election should be held immediately and remaining by-elections in the Spring.

The matter will be communicated to Fianna Fáil at Cabinet meeting this evening...

"We've come to the conclusion that our position as a party should be that the impact of the High Court decision should be followed through in its spirit and the by-election Donegal South West should be held immediately," said Green Party Chairman Dan Boyle.



Donegal South West by-election 'should be held immediately', say Greens (http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/donegal-south-west-by-election-should-be-held-immediately-say-greens-480291.html#ixzz14EAoyL7y)

[Baron von Biffo]

And so the procrastination begins.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1103/breaking47.html


I smell an appeal.

Ironically the interests of democracy and the supremacy of the peoples elected representatives demand an appeal.

[antiestablishmentarian]

And so the procrastination begins.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1103/breaking47.html


I smell an appeal.

I smell an amendment of legislation, followed by the by election, to be dragged out.

[moss]

Ironically the interests of democracy and the supremacy of the peoples elected representatives demand an appeal.


If it wasn't a 16 month delay, I may well agree with you.

Don't think it matters now anyway. I'd thought this would impact directly/immediately on the other outstanding by elections but there seems to be a way round this without an appeal.


The Green Party has said the Donegal South West by-election should be held immediately and remaining by-elections in the spring.


Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/donegal-south-west-by-election-should-be-held-immediately-say-greens-480291.html#ixzz14EInWSmx

Going with this scenario, FF/GP could hold out to next Autumn.

[eoinmn]

McDaid should run in the by-election! ;)

(There was a rumour that the Cope was thinking of running.. so truth is stranger than fiction)

[eoinmn]

On radio now saying they still want them held in Spring - not good enough.
No, he wants the DSW held this month and the other elections* held together in the spring.

*The other elections are the by-elections due to Lee, Cullen and McDaid. And the Mayoral election. And the children's referendum.

[JMcgynty]

The Cope will probabbly run and win it for Fianna Fail

[C. Flower]

The Cope will probabbly run and win it for Fianna Fail

Why do you think that?

Split vote?

[eoinmn]

This is the longest, most drawn out, collapse of a government ever.

[JMcgynty]

I think the Cope would win it because he is very popular there and Fianna Fail still have a good stronghold in Donegall

[C. Flower]

I think the Cope would win it because he is very popular there and Fianna Fail still have a good stronghold in Donegall

Is he just not past his sell-by date?

I'm not sure that FF would get a look in, the way things are with REPS4 and employment.

[JMcgynty]

Unemployment has always been bad in Donegall, underestimate Fianna Fail at your peril

[C. Flower]

Unemployment has always been bad in Donegal, underestimate Fianna Fail at your peril

Well, I do think you're right there.

[Ah Well]

Donegal South West by-election 'should be held immediately', say Greens (http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/donegal-south-west-by-election-should-be-held-immediately-say-greens-480291.html#ixzz14EAoyL7y)

The Greens a shower of spoofers. They're only on about it due to the Court decision. Plenty of time before this for them to insist a bye election occur and they could have held FF to ransom. But no, hide in the sand and turkeys don't vote for Christmas. The Greens know they're toast.

[Cáthasaigh]

underestimate Fianna Fail at your peril

Indeed, it appears that their capacity for treason is infinite.

[moss]

I think the Cope would win it because he is very popular there and Fianna Fail still have a good stronghold in Donegall

How come FF had to taken kicking and screaming to court then ?

They don't seem as certain as you do. Infact, they seem to running scared.

[JMcgynty]

Thinking and talking like that gets you nowhere, it has nothing to with treason it has to do with who the Donegal people will choose democratically

[Cáthasaigh]

Thinking and talking like that gets you nowhere, it has nothing to with treason it has to do with who the Donegal people will choose democratically

If the Donegal people are properly educated about the true, treacherous nature of FF gangsterism they should shun them at the polls. Do you not agree that FF are treasonous gangsters?

[moss]

Thinking and talking like that gets you nowhere, it has nothing to with treason it has to do with who the Donegal people will choose democratically



“Far from the court tearing asunder the provisions of the Constitution by adjudicating on this application, it is the ongoing failure to move the writ for this by-election since June 2009 which offends the terms and spirit of the Constitution and its framework for democracy.”

FF it seems don't do democracy.

[Cáthasaigh]

FF it seems don't do democracy.

It's just not in the nature of the Gombín.

[Baron von Biffo]

If it wasn't a 16 month delay, I may well agree with you.

Don't think it matters now anyway. I'd thought this would impact directly/immediately on the other outstanding by elections but there seems to be a way round this without an appeal.



Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/donegal-south-west-by-election-should-be-held-immediately-say-greens-480291.html#ixzz14EInWSmx

Going with this scenario, FF/GP could hold out to next Autumn.


There are two important issues here, the failure to hold the by-elections and the separation of powers.

The first is indefensible. The behaviour of FF and the Greens shows utter contempt for our democracy and I believe that the FG proposal that we should have a referendum to set a time limit within which by-elections must be held is the way to deal with it.

The second is just as important. It may even be more important. The constitution says that the filling of vacancies in the Dail is to be done in a manner regulated by law, in other words it's a function of the legislature. For the courts to interfere in that is effectively a usurpation of the prerogatives of the Dail and cannot be tolerated in a democracy. It's for that reason that I believe the government will have to appeal.

[C. Flower]

Labour is going to move the writ for all four bye elections.

What about the GE ?

[yehbut_nobut]

Labour is going to move the writ for all four bye elections.

What about the GE ?

Nice one. Do they mean the other 3? SF have already tabled the motion for DSW.

[Slim Buddha]

Unemployment has always been bad in Donegall, underestimate Fianna Fail at your peril

I would never underestimate either FF or Donegal's capacity to baffle the rest of us. This is the county that gave us Mary Coughlan, FFS. With no sense of shame.

[JMcgynty]

Its called democracy and Donegal people are entitled to vote for who they want, if you think people in Donegal are inferior to you, well, enough said

[moss]

Its called democracy and Donegal people are entitled to vote for who they want, if you think people in Donegal are inferior to you, well, enough said

It would take some sort of strange nutter to vote for a party (FF) that didn't want to give you a chance to vote in the first place.

[JMcgynty]

A lot of people in Donegal will vote for Fiana Fail and it is their democratic right to do so, calling people strange nutters because they do so is not a very good election slogan, it shows how blind people can become listening to their own propaganda

[moss]

A lot of people in Donegal will vote for Fiana Fail and it is their democratic right to do so, calling people strange nutters because they do so is not a very good election slogan, it shows how blind people can become listening to their own propaganda

And it is my opinion any that do are strange nutters.
FF had to be dragged kicking and screaming through the courts before these people were allowed a vote, and that isn't even a cert yet. They may well deny people a vote for even longer.
I doubt you even believe the propaganda you are spouting tbh.

Your point about election slogans is a mute point, I've decided against standing.

[JMcgynty]

I believe in democracy and i will never apologise for promoting it

[moss]

I believe in democracy and i will never apologise for promoting it

What's your view on FF denying the people of DSW full representation ?

[JMcgynty]

I allready said in an earlier post that I agreed with the judge, as for the government which is made up of more than Fianna Fail, it does have the right to take a position and defend itself in any court on behalf of the irish people and on behalf of future governments what ever parties that may be made up of

[whydontwe]

Chambers Dictionary: Democracy...a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people collectively....or...a state of society characterised by recognition of equality of rights and privileges for all people...or...political, social or legal equality!!!
Any of the above ring true for this 'train-track' which supports the 'gravy-train' politicians and their families?
Did McDaid forego his €71,000 p.a. pension+other emoluments....what is the net income of the likes of McDowell, Ahern, oh....etc etc etc etc...the Irish are such a stupid race...and the unfortunate thing is....it's their own that are abusing them. What a 'bloody' health-service we HAVE'NT !!!

[disability student]

Got a text from a friend saying that Mc Daid is laughing at us with a lifetime pension/s from the state while at the same time, we are struggling with our finances. Hypocrisy and double standards apply to FF people like him and others.

[Slim Buddha]

Got a text from a friend saying that Mc Daid is laughing at us with a lifetime pension/s from the state while at the same time, we are struggling with our finances. Hypocrisy and double standards apply to FF people like him and others.

And yet. And yet........one in four voters in both Donegal constituencies will STILL vote for Fianna Fail. A severe case of Stockholm Syndrome.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Maybe the rest of the country should take out a half page ad in the Donegal papers explaining that we forgot to tell them but the civil war such as it was ended over 70 years ago.

Maybe someone forgot to tell them. In some ways I admire Ginty's proud statement about defending democracy but there's an eerie air of misunderstanding about some Donegal poster associating democracy with Fianna Fail.

Democracy means making sure people are represented and voices heard. Not leaving them without representation for 17 months.

I'd love to do a voxpop at any Fianna Fail cumann and ask them to explain the principle of democracy. It would be like asking Alabamans to give us a rundown on the French revolution- hugely optimistic and destined for disappointment.

[JMcgynty]

I am not from Donegal I am from Kildare, not that it matters much when it comes to my right to vote for who i want, stating that the people in donegall were left without representation is untrue, they were down only one and were still well represented, im not saying i agreed with them being down one for so long but i like to hear it told as it really is

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Fine Gael are moving the writs for four bye-elections this evening and calling on the Greens to 'support the Fine Gael motions in order to ensure not only full parliamentary representation for the people of those constituencies but to give full effect to proper parliamentary democracy, respect for the Dáil and upholding the Constitution'

http://www.finegael.ie/news/a/4309/article/

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I am not from Donegal I am from Kildare, not that it matters much when it comes to my right to vote for who i want, stating that the people in donegall were left without representation is untrue, they were down only one and were still well represented, im not saying i agreed with them being down one for so long but i like to hear it told as it really is

Why on earth are you so disposed to excuse the failure to hold a bye-election when I am sure you aware that the government would not hold an election purely because they can't afford to lose seats?

Where is the switch off in your head where you can effectively ignore what was said in the High Court today?

A strange understanding of democracy indeed when you seek to justify a refusal to hold an election.

[Bertie Basher]

good stuff FG.

Cabinet still in meeting ? so going be glued to 9:00 news.

A week is a long time in politics wha...

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Absolutely astonishing how complacent some people are when the government is not just sitting on its hands as regards a long overdue bye-election but are bloody well spending taxpayers money in trying to actively STOP an election.

McGinty I'd respect your opinion a lot more if you'd simply come out and admit you are a fianna fail or green party supporter.

But this garbage of walking past the High Court statement this morning in order to try to weakly object to an election and then declare yourself a supporter of democracy is just absurd.

The game is pretty much up now- the only thing I fear from an election is the goldfish mentality of too many in the country who will assume Cowen and co will have been punished enough when he does a little hankie to the eye bit on the Fianna Fail 6.01 News.

That gang in the cabinet should be facing jailtime.

[C. Flower]

Yes, this just came to my in-box, and the Labour Party's a bit earlier.





Fine Gael has moved the writs for the outstanding bye-elections today (Wednesday) according to Party Chief Whip, Paul Kehoe TD.

“This Government is unravelling and seems willing to do anything to cling to power. The fact that the number of Dáil vacancies now outstrips the Government’s Dáil majority is clearly the reason why the outstanding bye-elections, one of which has been on the cards for 16 months, are being scandalously ignored by Fianna Fáil and the Greens.

“This can no longer be allowed to stand. Fianna Fáil and the Greens have already spent taxpayers’ cash to deny the Irish public their rights. The bye-elections must be held without delay and these must be followed by an immediate general election for a new government with a new mandate who can bring forward the new ideas we need to get our country working again.

“I call on the Green Party and Independents to support the Fine Gael motions in order to ensure not only full parliamentary representation for the people of those constituencies but to give full effect to proper parliamentary democracy, respect for the Dáil and upholding the Constitution.”


It seems to me there should be some sanction on a Government that acts contrary to law.

[JMcgynty]

I am not disposed to excuse the failure to hold a bye-election, i allready said it twice that i agreed with the judge, but saying that Donegall people need educating and that they are not represented are not true statements, i like the truth

[C. Flower]

Dail steps announcement at 8p.m. - presumably bye - or general election announcement

[disability student]

The Government has announced tonight that the Donegal South West by-election will take place on before the end of the month. The announcement follows the High Court decision earlier today to uphold Pearse Doherty's action against the government for the delay in hosting the by-election following Pat The Cope Gallagher's resignation as a TD to take a seat in the European Parliament for Ireland North West.

The Attorney General briefed the cabinet over the past few hours on the implications of Pearse Doherty's successful challenge against the "unreasonable delay" in running the by election in Donegal South West.

[disability student]

Just Donegal by election!!!!

What about other by elections such as Waterford, Dublin??

[C. Flower]

The Government has announced tonight that the Donegal South West by-election will take place on before the end of the month. The announcement follows the High Court decision earlier today to uphold Pearse Doherty's action against the government for the delay in hosting the by-election following Pat The Cope Gallagher's resignation as a TD to take a seat in the European Parliament for Ireland North West.

The Attorney General briefed the cabinet over the past few hours on the implications of Pearse Doherty's successful challenge against the "unreasonable delay" in running the by election in Donegal South West.

Thanks.

They couldn't do any less.

The writ for the three others will still have to be debated. How can they justify not holding them ?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1103/byeelection.html

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I am not disposed to excuse the failure to hold a bye-election, i allready said it twice that i agreed with the judge, but saying that Donegall people need educating and that they are not represented are not true statements, i like the truth

Why bother with an election in Wexford then? After all, there's a TD in Wicklow. If you like the truth you'll be lonely carrying a line for this government.

[whydontwe]

I am not from Donegal I am from Kildare, not that it matters much when it comes to my right to vote for who i want, stating that the people in donegall were left without representation is untrue, they were down only one and were still well represented, im not saying i agreed with them being down one for so long but i like to hear it told as it really is

Hello JMcgynty...don't take this the wrong way....but when you say.."vote for who I want..."....what does this really mean? What are you looking for ...exactly from your vote/politician?...really interested...thanks...in anticipation of your reply.

[Newsy]

Just Donegal by election!!!!

What about other by elections such as Waterford, Dublin??

Exactly.

boyle tweeted last night that all three should be held on the same day!!!!

[antiestablishmentarian]

They had to do this I suppose, but in some ways it won't hurt them too much as Donegal is an FF stronghold and some pundits tip them to hold onto the seat...although I'd imagine that's very unlikely, stranger things have happened.

[JMcgynty]

Again you try to distort what i say when i tell the truth, wexford and wicklow are two counties with differend constituencies

[C. Flower]

They had to do this I suppose, but in some ways it won't hurt them too much as Donegal is an FF stronghold and some pundits tip them to hold onto the seat...although I'd imagine that's very unlikely, stranger things have happened.

I'd say that if any of the non FF candidates calls for canvassers, there would be a stampede from across the country.

Is this a sign of Ganley cosying up to SF ?


@Paschald P. You'll have seen bondholders lists via Guido. We have the SF court victory today. None of this opposition frm FG /Lab leaders.

[morticia]

Well, all I can say is; fair play to the Shinners, not only did they come up with a Budget proposal I actually thought was fair, they've also succeeded in doing something about the by-election issue. Wouldn't be surprised if they managed to increase their vote share if there is a GE; they'd get a lot of the disaffected FF vote, I'd imagine. Can't imagine that business with Gilmore/his wife is doing Labour any favours right now, either.

[Newsy]

Anyone know who is the sf candidate for Donegal south west???

Would it be Pearse Doherty!!!!

[JMcgynty]

The most interesting question is who will be the Fianna Fail candidate, Sinn Fein might have shot themselves in the foot

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Again you try to distort what i say when i tell the truth, wexford and wicklow are two counties with differend constituencies

Lets go to the start and take small steps. Why does Donegal South West have two TDs?

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

The most interesting question is who will be the Fianna Fail candidate, Sinn Fein might have shot themselves in the foot

Can't see any trace of party bias in this message either;)

JMcgynty- are you or are you not a Fianna Fail or Green supporter?

[JMcgynty]

Well there ya go i was telling the truth all the time

[Newsy]

Can't see any trace of party bias in this message either;)

JMcgynty- are you or are you not a Fianna Fail or Green supporter?

You could be on to something there....;)

[antiestablishmentarian]

Well there ya go i was telling the truth all the time

Eh?

[JMcgynty]

Donegal South West has two TDs

[Apjp]

conor lenihan says he wants a general election next year after the budget. i never really liked him, but at least he has the balls to say there should be one before 2012-but they will ruin the coffers with one last horrific, perhaps unalterable budget(i.e. giving more unremovable powers to nama).

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Well there ya go i was telling the truth all the time

You sound surprised.

If there is a reason for a constituency to have 2 TDs and one of them is taken away and the government refuses to hold a bye-election to replace the missing one then does that imply there is something not quite right?

[Ah Well]

You could be on to something there....;)

More like he is onto something ...

[moss]

The judgment in full if anyone wants a look.

http://courts.ie/judgments.nsf/597645521f07ac9a80256ef30048ca52/baf3228928ac3b4b802577d0003fedb8?OpenDocument

Anyone know if the court can award costs against the 'government' ?

[JMcgynty]

I was surprised that you admitted they had two TD's as you had allready stated they were left with no representation

[JMcgynty]

And i did agree with the judge aswell

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Donegal South West has two TDs

What are the names of those two current TD's?

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I was surprised that you admitted they had two TD's as you had allready stated they were left with no representation

This is getting better by the minute. I assume I must be interacting with someone from a Fianna Fail think tank.

I living TD and one vacancy. Now think hard for a second. What happens when there is a vacancy for a TD in a two-seater constituency when there is only one sitting TD?

I know this is a bit tough but let's bear with it.

[Bertie Basher]

Has this GOVT no shame re the appeal and delay on the other by-elections. Just did an email rant to the following:

ciaran.cuffe@oireachtas.ie
paul.gogarty@oireachtas.ie
john.gormley@oireachtas.ie
eamon.ryan@oireachtas.ie
marya.white@oireachtas.ie
trevor.sargent@oireachtas.ie
dan.boyle@oireachtas.ie
michael.lowry@oireachtas.ie
jackie.healy.rae@oireachtas.ie

suggest we bombard them with emails !!!!

[JMcgynty]

Mary Coughlan, Dinny Mcginley

[C. Flower]

Has this GOVT no shame re the appeal and delay on the other by-elections. Just did an email rant to the following:

ciaran.cuffe@oireachtas.ie
paul.gogarty@oireachtas.ie
john.gormley@oireachtas.ie
eamon.ryan@oireachtas.ie
marya.white@oireachtas.ie
trevor.sargent@oireachtas.ie
dan.boyle@oireachtas.ie
michael.lowry@oireachtas.ie
jackie.healy.rae@oireachtas.ie

suggest we bombard them with emails !!!!

Why the Green Party ? -I think that Fianna Fail is a lot shakier than the Greens.
Everyone should contact their own FF TD, if they have one.

[whydontwe]

Lenehan belongs to a dynasty....and if politics in this kip is to become truly democratic...then anything he/they say should be disregarded...end of!

[JMcgynty]

This is getting better by the minute. I assume I must be interacting with someone from a Fianna Fail think tank.

I living TD and one vacancy. Now think hard for a second. What happens when there is a vacancy for a TD in a two-seater constituency when there is only one sitting TD?

I know this is a bit tough but let's bear with it.

How many more times do i have to repeat myself and say again that I agreed with the judge today, what I challenged was your distortion of the facts by saying DSW was left without representation, truth will always win out, stick to it, theres no need for distortions or exaggerations

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

JMcginty;
Its called democracy and Donegal people are entitled to vote for who they want, if you think people in Donegal are inferior to you, well, enough said

And on being asked who the two current TD's are in Donegal South West;

Mary Coughlan and Dinny McGinty

Don't you just love juxtaposition humour?

Now tell me the story of what happened with Pat 'The Cope' Gallagher JMcginty. Did he bring t'other seat with him to Europe when he went off to brush up his French? Or did he bring a third of the Donegal South West electorate with him to live in Brussels?

[JMcgynty]

JMcginty;

And on being asked who the two current TD's are in Donegal South West;

Mary Coughlan and Dinny McGinty

Don't you just love juxtaposition humour?

Now tell me the story of what happened with Pat 'The Cope' Gallagher JMcginty. Did he bring t'other seat with him to Europe when he went off to brush up his French? Or did he bring a third of the Donegal South West electorate with him to live in Brussels?

He might not have brought it with him but he might come back and claim it which is possible

[whydontwe]

Yes, this just came to my in-box, and the Labour Party's a bit earlier.



It seems to me there should be some sanction on a Government that acts contrary to law.

C.Flower....correct...there should be a sanction...but here's the story:
For decades upon decades...politicians have allied themselves with the others in the executive (mostly the Law-Kings) to insure their respective interests are protected. If this was not the case....how could we have such idiocies as people proven to be innocent going to jail/fined for littering?? The law in this country serves the wealthy...and the connected...end of story! If the law was equitable...why then would barristers earn millions in the protracted tribunals? Why would one pay so much more to a "more experienced" lawyer to defend a case...if the law is equal? Answers on an envelope to the (so-called) Law Society please!!! What country...faced with all this corruption...did not eventually succumb to violence and turmoil? Our muppet politicians have much to answer for!

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I wish it was the Law Society which regulated the lawyers in Ireland. Particularly the night-class political 'barristers'.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

He might not have brought it with him but he might come back and claim it which is possible

On the one hand you are striving to protect the reputation of the electorate of Donegal and on the other you are trying to tell us that the electorate in Donegal will return Pat Gallagher after a vital year spent at the coalface of European democracy representing the North West.

And this is the same constituency that has Mary Coughlan representing it. I sincerely hope you are wrong about the electoral judgement of the people of Donegal.

As for your comment about there being a lot of unemployment in Donegal and for the well known planning application free-for-all which has left empty mcmansions all over the county do you not think the people of Donegal are capable of putting two and two together?

I suppose we'll see.

[Bertie Basher]

Why the Green Party ? -I think that Fianna Fail is a lot shakier than the Greens.
Everyone should contact their own FF TD, if they have one.

see your point too, but the last time I emailed my local FF tds (yes 2), on same said issue, I got a long pointless rambling phone call from one of them ***** ing (how do you spell that :) "there a too many tds anyway" FFS, of course I agreed with this, but not the point at this time. I am very much for political reform, but lets get this FFers and crew out first. I live in Dublin SW and the guy that rang me is in a dynasty..guess :D

[JMcgynty]

On the one hand you are striving to protect the reputation of the electorate of Donegal and on the other you are trying to tell us that the electorate in Donegal will return Pat Gallagher after a vital year spent at the coalface of European democracy representing the North West.

And this is the same constituency that has Mary Coughlan representing it. I sincerely hope you are wrong about the electoral judgement of the people of Donegal.

As for your comment about there being a lot of unemployment in Donegal and for the well known planning application free-for-all which has left empty mcmansions all over the county do you not think the people of Donegal are capable of putting two and two together?

I suppose we'll see.

That is democracy, the people of donegall will decide, I would be very surprised if the astute people of Donegal did not put two and two together and avail of the big money paid for sites and the tax breaks

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Sorry I don't take lectures on democracy from people who can't even admit which party they support when asked. And certainly not from a Fianna Failer, one of the most corrupt political parties in Europe.

Basically Fianna Failers like yourself are discredited pal.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

And by the way 'Donegal' has only one 'L'. If you are going to discuss an electorate at least learn to spell the name of their constituency.

[Ah Well]

I wish it was the Law Society which regulated the lawyers in Ireland. Particularly the night-class political 'barristers'.

They regulate Solicitors?

http://www.lawsociety.ie/Pages/Public-Make-a-Complaint-CMS/

[Bertie Basher]

Sorry I don't take lectures on democracy from people who can't even admit which party they support when asked. And certainly not from a Fianna Failer, one of the most corrupt political parties in Europe.

Basically Fianna Failers like yourself are discredited pal.

like your signature :D

[JMcgynty]

Sorry I don't take lectures on democracy from people who can't even admit which party they support when asked. And certainly not from a Fianna Failer, one of the most corrupt political parties in Europe.

Basically Fianna Failers like yourself are discredited pal.

If that is all you can come up with i rest my case for democracy and the people of Donegall, It is very evident you dont like how they vote but Im afraid that is democracy, and whether i'm Fianna Fail, Fine Gael ,Labour or any other party or no party I am entitled to my opinion and i have a vote that i can cast any way i want in Kildare

[moss]

i like the truth

Then why was your first contribution to this thread a complete lie ??
And a pathetic attempt at smear.




Sinn Fein recognising the Irish Courts ? thats irony,
or is it only when it suits them

[Sidewinder]

i have a vote that i can cast any way i want in Kildare

Ah. Well that explains it then.

[JMcgynty]

Then why was your first contribution to this thread a complete lie ??
And a pathetic attempt at smear.

You can fool some of the people some of the time but you cant fool all of the people all of the time, thankfully
I wonder how many people on this site remember Sinn Fein/ira members refusing to recognise the irish courts

[whydontwe]

Sad stuff...in general. I do not trust any politician...white, black, green, orange, male or female in this morally corrupt country...while the 'gravy-train' mode of democracy continues here. If any one trusts any politician here and votes for them...then it's obviously to benefit just themselves (which has us where we are)...'God' help us...this kip will not change,ever, for the betterment of all. In 50 + years...the poor and unconnected will still watch their children die while the rich survive and enrich themselves...and on...and on...and on....what a pitiful ignorant people we've become!

[JMcgynty]

Ah. Well that explains it then.

Delighted you understand it even if you do take it out of context

[Lapsedmethodist]

A bye bye election !:p

I'm here for a while yet.

[JMcgynty]

Sad stuff...in general. I do not trust any politician...white, black, green, orange, male or female in this morally corrupt country...while the 'gravy-train' mode of democracy continues here. If any one trusts any politician here and votes for them...then it's obviously to benefit just themselves (which has us where we are)...'God' help us...this kip will not change,ever, for the betterment of all. In 50 + years...the poor and unconnected will still watch their children die while the rich survive and enrich themselves...and on...and on...and on....what a pitiful ignorant people we've become!

Does that mean you dont want anyone elected to govern ?

[C. Flower]

Does that mean you dont want anyone elected to govern ?

You're trolling, JMcgynty. Please stick to the topic, instead of sticking to derailing it.

[Sidewinder]

Delighted you understand it even if you do take it out of context

Of course I understand. Yer just another FF bogman blustering braggart and bully spouting utter shyte.

Now some of us saw right through the facade of superior sneering and shouting that in FF circles is considered the height of sophistimacated debate years ago. In the last two years about 80% of the country have gradually caught on. Yer tired old spin and guff doesn't impress anyone any more, nor is anyone afraid of FF gurriers and bootboys and their veiled threats any more.

Hand back the cash and buy a one-way ticket off the island. That's all anyone wants to hear or see from any FF-supporting maffioso now. Your day is over, and the real Irish people are reclaiming control of their country from you treacherous sell-outs.

[Newsy]

Anyone know who is the sf candidate for Donegal south west???

Would it be Pearse Doherty!!!!

There is a campaign.....

http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=298939658292

[Lapsedmethodist]

Then why was your first contribution to this thread a complete lie ??
And a pathetic attempt at smear.

You can't blame people for being cynical, Moss. For years we've had to look at the likes of Brady, sitting at the bedside of J.J. Mcginty, aged 203 and the last survivor of Vinegar hill and in whom all authority rests. Crowley is on here with gombeen this and gombeen that ! Now it's all your honour if it so pleases. Funny.:)

[JMcgynty]

Of course I understand. Yer just another FF bogman blustering braggart and bully spouting utter shyte.

Now some of us saw right through the facade of superior sneering and shouting that in FF circles is considered the height of sophistimacated debate years ago. In the last two years about 80% of the country have gradually caught on. Yer tired old spin and guff doesn't impress anyone any more, nor is anyone afraid of FF gurriers and bootboys and their veiled threats any more.

Hand back the cash and buy a one-way ticket off the island. That's all anyone wants to hear or see from any FF-supporting maffioso now. Your day is over, and the real Irish people are reclaiming control of their country from you treacherous sell-outs.

That is really a very a pathetic arguement

[JMcgynty]

You're trolling, JMcgynty. Please stick to the topic, instead of sticking to derailing it.

I am doing my best to stay on topic but if someone accuses me of telling a lie i think i should try to defend myself,

[moss]

You can't blame people for being cynical, Moss. For years we've had to look at the likes of Brady, sitting at the bedside of J.J. Mcginty, aged 203 and the last survivor of Vinegar hill and in whom all authority rests. Crowley is on here with gombeen this and gombeen that ! Now it's all your honour if it so pleases. Funny.:)

Did you just appear as soon as that other eejit left ?

[whydontwe]

Just wondering...any one surprised at the Greens supporting by-election in Donegal...but not down south? Seems like hypocracy to me...but ...may be I'm getting older and tired of their garbage!

[Lapsedmethodist]

Did you just appear as soon as that other eejit left ?

He's an innocent crateur and easily intimidated.

[C. Flower]

Will there be a Left candidate in Donegal NW ?

[JMcgynty]

Will there be a Left candidate in Donegal NW ?

You cant get more left than Sinn Fein

[DCon]

Just wondering...any one surprised at the Greens supporting by-election in Donegal...but not down south? Seems like hypocracy to me...but ...may be I'm getting older and tired of their garbage!

the Greens are supporting a by-election in Donegal after the High Court ruled it should happen and FF told the Greens that they should vote with FF when the writ is moved

That is all

[Sidewinder]

Will there be a Left candidate in Donegal NW ?

It's SW and NE ;)

I'd imagine McBrearty wants the Labour nomination for SW, though after today it's hard to see young Pearse losing.

Padraig MacLochlainn would be the SF man in NE, but Labour don't really have any presence there - with Jimbo gone there might be space in Letterkenny now though, MacLochlainn should clean up in Inishowen and god help us those hillbillies up in Fanad will probably continue to support Blaney the Lesser in their droves.

[5intheface]

It's SW and NE ;)

I'd imagine McBrearty wants the Labour nomination for SW, though after today it's hard to see young Pearse losing.

Padraig MacLochlainn would be the SF man in NE, but Labour don't really have any presence there - with Jimbo gone there might be space in Letterkenny now though, MacLochlainn should clean up in Inishowen and god help us those hillbillies up in Fanad will probably continue to support Blaney the Lesser in their droves.

Fairly sure McBrearty is the Labour candidate, I think I recall Gilmore travelling up there to launch the campaign, that was back in Feb or March I think.

A barman I was chatting to in the Kees in Stranorlar was adamant at the time that no one else could possibly win. I'd say today has opened things up considerably but then again it's Donegal.

[Lá an Lúbáin]

It's been quite a day. And Seachtar na Cásca on Pádraig Mac Piarais to wash it all down with VB as a post-repast satisfying burp.

[Cáthasaigh]

Crowley is on here with gombeen this and gombeen that !

It's catching on too, Fintan O Toole is calling for the end of Gombín rule. The people are catching on to your ilk Wesley.

[Slim Buddha]

It's SW and NE ;)

I'd imagine McBrearty wants the Labour nomination for SW, though after today it's hard to see young Pearse losing.

Padraig MacLochlainn would be the SF man in NE, but Labour don't really have any presence there - with Jimbo gone there might be space in Letterkenny now though, MacLochlainn should clean up in Inishowen and god help us those hillbillies up in Fanad will probably continue to support Blaney the Lesser in their droves.

It is hard to see Pearse losing but it may be short lived because he'll be back out on the campaign trail again in the Spring at the latest. As will they all.

Mc Brearty may get his chance then but not at Pearse's expense. In a normal constituency, one might say that 1 Labour and 1 Sinn Fein would be no great surprise.

But this is Donegal.

[Rich]

To paraphrase a well known saying:

"Democracy delayed is democracy denied".

[antiestablishmentarian]

FF/Na Glasraí have just voted down all the by-election writs save for the Donegal South-West one.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

There were 6 FG TD's missing from the chamber apparently. We need to find out who they were and why mammy called them in for their lunch at the wrong moment.

After all the bullshyte from FG about forcing the by-elections 6 of their TD's went missing and the vote was 76(nil) 70 (ta).

[JMcgynty]

There were 6 FG TD's missing from the chamber apparently. We need to find out who they were and why mammy called them in for their lunch at the wrong moment.

After all the bullshyte from FG about forcing the by-elections 6 of their TD's went missing and the vote was 76(nil) 70 (ta).

I would presme they were paired as it seems the government were down 6 votes also

[BrendanGalway]

FF/Na Glasraí have just voted down all the by-election writs save for the Donegal South-West one.

Just Incredible. Suppression of Democracy. Let them wait. Thats just appalling and disgusting. What a crew.

And they will still maintain they have a Mandate.

Representative Democracy is a Failure. This State is a Sham.

[Dr. FIVE]

Waterford threatening court now.

Words fail me at this stage.
The students should have went to court

[disability student]

It's unbelievable to see that FF and GP voted all down in respect of the by elections in the dail. They are so UNDEMOCRATIC and don't care about us- the people/electorate.

They shouldn't be claiming as a democratic party or a republican party. It was a pure republican party that brought it up to the high court. Fair play to SF as i couldn't understand why didn't FG bring it to courts much sooner last before the summer when motion for by elections failed in the Dail.

[disability student]

It's a clever move by FG re motions for by elections this morning as it showed FF still went against the 'spirit of the constitution'(aptly coined by a high court judge).

It would be seen in the high court that FF didn't respect the recent High court decision at all by voting down all motions for by elections.

So it's up to FG guy from Waterford to point this out re his move to the high court as he must move it quickly before it all dies down quickly.

[ang]

He can't move it quickly DS as his case can't be heard until after the Government appeal. Eamon Gilmore called on the Government (RTE R1 lunchtime)to expediate the SC application to allow another HC application to go ahead.

[Rich]

Just saw a tweet from Dan Boyle:


You are not unrepresented, you are underrepresented.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Dan Boyle
You are not unrepresented, you are underrepresented.

An interesting observation from someone who was dumped at the 2007 General Election and had to be appointed to the Senate.

[disability student]

Dan Boyle

An interesting observation from someone who was dumped at the 2007 General Election and had to be appointed to the Senate.

Me thinks he's toast when the elections comes around hopefully in a couple of weeks before the budget:rolleyes:

No party (apart from FF and GP) would nominate him in the next senate as he would probably go back to councillor's job. I was wondering what made or propelled him enter into politics.. was it haulbowline dump or Electrical plyon that people form Cobh/Ringaskiddy were fighting against the ESB back then.

[JMcgynty]

First indications from people in Donegal are Fianna Fail will win the bye election but might find it hard to hold on to the seat in a general election

[disability student]

FF wanted it before the budget but not after the budget. Otherwise, they would be hammered , left, right & centre in Donegal. Remember Lisbon treaty mark II, Donegal was the only county that had rejected the Lisbon treaty.

It could be history repeating itself re vote when it comes on the 25th Nov'10.

[Andrew49]

Dan Boyle

An interesting observation from someone who was dumped at the 2007 General Election and had to be appointed to the Senate.

Can I 'tweet' this back at Sen. Dan? It's a fabulous riposte.

[JMcgynty]

FF wanted it before the budget but not after the budget. Otherwise, they would be hammered , left, right & centre in Donegal. Remember Lisbon treaty mark II, Donegal was the only county that had rejected the Lisbon treaty.

It could be history repeating itself re vote when it comes on the 25th Nov'10.

If you think political alegiances in Donegal has anything to do with the lisbon treaty you are deluding yourself