Student Registration Fees - Mass Demonstration - Students Occupy Department of Finance

[C. Flower]

A €3,000 Registration Fee for third level students is being floated, with a suggestion that the Greens would "settle" at €2,500.

This would be the definitive end of the free Third Level fees in Ireland, introduced under the Rainbow Coalition Government.

The USI is saying that the fee would be a deterrent and would force people to drop out.

In the event of an IMF/EU arrival, student fees would almost certainly be a requirement.

I haven't heard any discussion of student loans - student loans are going to be the next big default item in the US and UK, after sub prime property and along with credit card debt.

[Slim Buddha]

I think you can bet your shirt or blouse or whatever on this cactus. Whatever happens, this will come in.

[Xray]

This is great news.

We might finally give young people a kick in the arse to get out and protest. If existing students know they are facing this bill next year they might wake up and see what is awaiting them when college is finished. Lets see what the student unions are made of now, are they mice or men(or women).

If I were a fresher looking at a 5 digit debt on graduation with no prospect of a job I know what I would do.

5 banks, but the state cannot afford education. Knowledge economy? Program for government? Greens?

What a joke these people are.

[youngdan]

Great news Cactus.

A lot of people waste their time in Uni trying to learn rubbish while some poor working man has to pay for them

[Xray]

Irish universities are sh1te by the way, not worth 3,ooo a year.

[youngdan]

This is great news.

If I were a fresher looking at a 5 digit debt on graduation with no prospect of a job I know what I would do.

.

Hopefully have enough brains not to go:)

[Slim Buddha]

Great news Cactus.

A lot of people waste their time in Uni trying to learn rubbish while some poor working man has to pay for them

Do you realise, youngdan, that this was a core tenet of Progressive Democrat education policy.

[youngdan]

It is a disgrace that the workingman has to pay for snotty nosed kids who will not work and think they know more than the people who paid for the food

[Apjp]

Great news Cactus.

A lot of people waste their time in Uni trying to learn rubbish while some poor working man has to pay for them

you are some loser. who hates the world this badly? 'some poor working man' is usually paying taxes for his own student to attend via a grant, or the fees break! if you were irish, and not brainwashed by the american definition of 'equality for life', you might know that. Of course, the land of opportunity has less students than ireland proportionately going to college-but sure you knew that already right?

[antiestablishmentarian]

This won't be accepted not just because of the punitive effect it'll have on those of us already in college but because of the effect it will have on the next group seeking to get in. I have a sister sitting the Leaving Cert this year and she hopes to go to college, but she will be effectively barred on grounds of cost. I know many others in the same boat and we won't accept this punishment of ourselves and others around us who aren't responsible for creating the crisis that is leading to these hikes. The chief problem is the USI are useless and timid: they have a habit of centralising protests in the capital, excluding students from the other colleges around the country for whom it's too far (during the anti-fees campaign, on the national day of protest in Feb. 2009, only 4 students from UL including myself made it along to the national day of action: there were other factors involved with the leadership of the SU at the time, but a day of action in Limerick before that saw hundreds out on the street to take action).
They are also extremely insistent on keeping protests non-political.

[Apjp]

It is a disgrace that the workingman has to pay for snotty nosed kids who will not work and think they know more than the people who paid for the food

ring any bells???

[youngdan]

I would be a bigger loser if I lived in Ireland and had to feed you, you ungratefull charactor

[Xray]

Hopefully have enough brains not to go:)

Well most money spent in Irish third level colleges are a waste of time at this stage. A ticket to unemployment and a massive debt to the State. My advice would be make sure you do something with a job at the end or get out of the country. I certainly would not had over 15K or 20K to an Irish University. We are pumping out graduates in all sorts of things that are finished in Ireland for a generation. Charging people for doing them is not a solution. How dare they charge for this. Go on the dole and act the ****** instead, thats the message.

[Apjp]

I would be a bigger loser if I lived in Ireland and had to feed you, you ungratefull charactor

haha. what have i to be grateful for? I pay seasonal PRSI when I work, and I take my grant cuts-and for what, so our hospitals close, and postgraduate fees are hiked for me when I graduate? Are you a bondholder by any chance, as you seem to have a direct interest in Ireland failing to support any of it's people in a socially inclusive manner?

[C. Flower]

With unemployment the way it is, it makes every sense to have people in education. We should be able to improve it, by cutting some of the insane top wages and getting more good teaching post graduates in.

[antiestablishmentarian]

I would be a bigger loser if I lived in Ireland and had to feed you, you ungratefull charactor

Seeing as he's mastered the art of typing, I'd imagine the days of anyone feeding him are long gone :rolleyes:

[youngdan]

haha. what have i to be grateful for? I pay seasonal PRSI when I work, and I take my grant cuts-and for what, so our hospitals close, and postgraduate fees are hiked for me when I graduate? Are you a bondholder by any chance, as you seem to have a direct interest in Ireland failing to support any of it's people in a socially inclusive manner?

Do you want someone else to pay for your education. Yes or No

Man Up

[Xray]

Well now is your chance young Ireland, we you take it?


Are u as shallow as they say?

[Xray]

Do you want someone else to pay for your education. Yes or No

Man Up

Tax me to educate him/her, I want an educated population here when I am old.

[youngdan]

Seeing as he's mastered the art of typing, I'd imagine the days of anyone feeding him are long gone :rolleyes:

You are the one that is crying that nobody will pay for your little sister. Can she type

[Apjp]

Do you want someone else to pay for your education. Yes or No

Man Up

You think there is some individual paying for my education My dad paid taxes all his life before he lost his job-he more than paid for it in taxes. I pay seasonal PRSI every summer-so I pay what I can. So I would see it more as the state owing me an education-which it does. If you choose to think that taxpayers sons and daughters are spongers, that is up to your own socially uneducated self. Like I said, there is no American social inclusivity. You live in a country where the average annual fees are around forty thousand us dollars, so your mindset, given your professed class, is understandable. It is the same that was barked out for decades here-keep the poor stupid. Sorry, not in Ireland pal. We don't buy that particular bullshit. And if the country was managed properly, I would more than pay back my fees in taxes in five or six years time. So, put simply, you cannot define the right to an education as only the rich having it. Here in Ireland, most of us realize 18 year olds cannot pull three grand out of their arse. If you don't, or you don't care, like I say, thats your choice. I suggest, as an american, you get a life and quit telling us how to run our country. There are enough problems in yours.

[youngdan]

You think there is some individual paying for my education My dad paid taxes all his life before he lost his job-he more than paid for it in taxes. I pay seasonal PRSI every summer-so I pay what I can. So I would see it more as the state owing me an education-which it does. If you choose to think that taxpayers sons and daughters are spongers, that is up to your own socially uneducated self. Like I said, there is no American social inclusivity. You live in a country where the average annual fees are around forty thousand us dollars, so your mindset, given your professed class, is understandable. It is the same that was barked out for decades here-keep the poor stupid. Sorry, not in Ireland pal. We don't buy that particular bullshit. And if the country was managed properly, I would more than pay back my fees in taxes in five or six years time. So, put simply, you cannot define the right to an education as only the rich having it. Here in Ireland, most of us realize 18 year olds cannot pull three grand out of their arse. If you don't, or you don't care, like I say, thats your choice. I suggest, as an american, you get a life and quit telling us how to run our country. There are enough problems in yours.

Is that a Yes or a No:D:D

[Apjp]

Tax me to educate him/her, I want an educated population here when I am old.

Of course you do. The elderly need equally educated people, who were taught to be socially respectable of all people, regardless of age or background, wealth or health, so that we do not have the current lot's would be successors running the show in the same manner in thirty or forty years time. we need the ending of class determining whether you get fair healthcare, and we must freeze registration fees. Ireland should be a fair country. I think we all know that. Certainly, if I were wealthy, I would not wish fees upon anyone who could not pay them. The only difference between the rich and the poor is access to services and goods. There is no intellectual difference, unless society permits it. I am proud I am not part of a society that does, and long may it continue. After all, what it costs to run berties merc for a year would pay for a hundred students atm!

[Apjp]

Is that a Yes or a No:D:D

it is a yes in that that someone is the Irish people, and it will be me if god willing i get a job in a few years time-in other words, educate me, give me a job, and I will repay you Ireland. At least, unlike the banks and the politicians, I will give the money back!

[youngdan]

You say you will pay it back.

If a wealthy man were to lend you 20000 euros for your education would you sign a contract to repay the man at 5%

[Apjp]

You say you will pay it back.

If a wealthy man were to lend you 20000 euros for your education would you sign a contract to repay the man at 5%

Sure-in installments. which is what taxes are.

[youngdan]

Sure-in installments. which is what taxes are.

Problem solved then, take out a loan

[Apjp]

Problem solved then, take out a loan

cool..know any irish banks the state owns that will lend 20 grand to a student with no collateral...please don't tell me it takes a business student to know that one my friend. :) I think you just are against social justice are you not? Then again you sidestep all my questions on what you think we should do as regards the less well off in society. come on..be a straight shooter..say what you think-or can you? Do you resent the silly poor Irish getting an education?? Awhhhhh...anyways, I read tonight on RTE that the minister has said the fees may very well double, and grants will be hit hard-so that should keep you happy til the IMF get in the door young dan.

[youngdan]

cool..know any irish banks the state owns that will lend 20 grand to a student with no collateral...please don't tell me it takes a business student to know that one my friend. :) I think you just are against social justice are you not? Then again you sidestep all my questions on what you think we should do as regards the less well off in society. come on..be a straight shooter..say what you think-or can you? Do you resent the silly poor Irish getting an education?? Awhhhhh...anyways, I read tonight on RTE that the minister has said the fees may very well double, and grants will be hit hard-so that should keep you happy til the IMF get in the door young dan.

The poor must help themselves Apjp. Nobody else will.

When they live in a socialist dump that charges them 9 dollars a gallon for petrol then it is difficult sure enough. That is the whole idea of communism. Keep the plebs poor.

So you can't get a loan. You can't put it on Mommy's credit card. Your family has no collatoral like land or a farm and your father does not have 20 grand in the bank

Is that your position

[Apjp]

The poor must help themselves Apjp. Nobody else will.

When they live in a socialist dump that charges them 9 dollars a gallon for petrol then it is difficult sure enough. That is the whole idea of communism. Keep the plebs poor.

So you can't get a loan. You can't put it on Mommy's credit card. Your family has no collatoral like land or a farm and your father does not have 20 grand in the bank

Is that your position

well, i will tell you-you must be the only person alive that thinks america or ireland are socialist countries. and communism keeps the rich and poor on an economically equal footing-it is totally different to socialism. no, i cannot get a loan-apart from a very small one of about a thousand euro from my credit union. And I have no mammy with a credit card-unlike perhaps yourself, I never did. and yes on the last question, as i already said. so i will happily protest against 25 percent student cuts. TBH the grant should be fifty percent receipted expenses, and fifty percent living allowance, but that is more of a general statement than to you specifically-research the eu grant system, and how ireland implements it and you will understand.

[Xray]

I don't think student loans are right. Only the poor will have that debt. I think the cost of educating people should be shouldered by all. We all use teachers and Doctors, we can all pay to train them. If people are doing courses that are not useful to society scrap the course as a publicly run one.

We need people doing the right courses and we need to support them doing it. That goes for PLCs to PHDs. If we don't its all over. We always educated people, even in hedges. If we stop the best will leave and they will be correct to do so. I was educated abroad and it was the greatest gift I was ever given. It is a same my own country could not do it for me.

You can repay the debt to society by being good at your job and paying tax to educate the next generation. I am happy to pay more now to fund current students.

[youngdan]

well, i will tell you-you must be the only person alive that thinks america or ireland are socialist countries. and communism keeps the rich and poor on an economically equal footing-it is totally different to socialism. no, i cannot get a loan-apart from a very small one of about a thousand euro from my credit union. And I have no mammy with a credit card-unlike perhaps yourself, I never did. and yes on the last question, as i already said. so i will happily protest against 25 percent student cuts. TBH the grant should be fifty percent receipted expenses, and fifty percent living allowance, but that is more of a general statement than to you specifically-research the eu grant system, and how ireland implements it and you will understand.

Of course communism keeps the rich rich and the poor poor. It works a charm as the poor are screwed.

Protesting the cuts is as usefull as protesting the tide going out each day.

It is as simple as this.

For peanuts(50 million) the state could lend 10000 of ye 5 grand each and the problem is solved. Pay it back and off ye go.

But the Paddy always wants someone else to buy their dinner

[Apjp]

I don't think student loans are right. Only the poor will have that debt. I think the cost of educating people should be shouldered by all. We all use teachers and Doctors, we can all pay to train them. If people are doing courses that are not useful to society scrap the course as a publicly run one.

We need people doing the right courses and we need to support them doing it. That goes for PLCs to PHDs. If we don't its all over. We always educated people, even in hedges. If we stop the best will leave and they will be correct to do so. I was educated abroad and it was the greatest gift I was ever given. It is a same my own country could not do it for me.

You can repay the debt to society by being good at your job and paying tax to educate the next generation. I am happy to pay more now to fund current students.


Thanks, my thoughts exactly. Nice to see a bit of compassion after other posters just said the poor should fend for themselves-which makes no economic sense either, as the higher paying job you have, if you have one, the more tax you can contribute. only people with such an education can attain such jobs in ireland today.

[Apjp]

Of course communism keeps the rich rich and the poor poor. It works a charm as the poor are screwed.

Protesting the cuts is as usefull as protesting the tide going out each day.

It is as simple as this.

For peanuts(50 million) the state could lend 10000 of ye 5 grand each and the problem is solved. Pay it back and off ye go.

But the Paddy always wants someone else to buy their dinner

Know any rich cuban communists? there certainly are not many!(save drug dealers perhaps-communist economies, because of the tradition of exploiting the poor keep everyone poor, and the only exception is politicians who have the power to be above the law-all business is collectivised for the good ofn the economy, this only works in the world's most powerful country-CHINA. China, are in an econnomic sense, the only country to treat it's citizens equally, and I stress economically. And, the whole point of a tax based grant system is you pick up the cheque later-not take out a loan to buy the steak, seeing as how you think it all comes down to ridiculing people with analogies. Just please get the facts next time you want to debate.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Of course communism keeps the rich rich and the poor poor. It works a charm as the poor are screwed.

Protesting the cuts is as usefull as protesting the tide going out each day.

It is as simple as this.

For peanuts(50 million) the state could lend 10000 of ye 5 grand each and the problem is solved. Pay it back and off ye go.

But the Paddy always wants someone else to buy their dinner

We'll soon be seeing the effects of college loans in the United States. I've met plenty of US college graduates and some from supposedly good universities and they could barely be described as literate.

Is Christine O'Donnell a good example of a US college graduate?

[antiestablishmentarian]

I feel nauseous after reading the press statement on tomorrow's march put out by the USI...FFS


We are the future of the Irish nation. It will be the students of today who are the tax payers of tomorrow and it will be us that repay the cost of the bank bailout. By protecting education we will continue produce graduates of international calibre and give our generation a fighting chance of repaying this debt.

Was this written by an FFer I wonder? A 'fighting chance of repaying the debt'???
http://www.usi.ie/press-archives/65-2010/1541-thousands-of-students-expected-at-usi-protest-march.html

[Apjp]

something worth pointing out vincent brone says the lack of current fees are, to an extent, subsidies for rich kids. Should the rich pay more, or will that lead to rich students going abroad, less money for the education budget as a result, spending elsewhere in other supposedly cheaper economies(France is cheaper to go to college in than Ireland, for example) and less money for the exchequer overall? Will charging fees not push lower middle class people into a poverty trap as they may be ineligible for grants? And would a streamlined way of doing things based on income-ie over 100k per house 3000, 80-100k, 2500, 50-80k, 1500-be too expensive and/or slow/impossible to administrate with the current recruitment freeze?? I think you should charge more for people who can pay more, but I think we should maintain cheaper degrees for ourselves than other countries. However, there is nothing to stop a rich kid moving out of their home into a flat, claiming they live alone, and having their rent paid for by their parents, and they get a grant based on having a low income, is there?? It is all one big unholy mess!

[C. Flower]

A very loud demonstration has just started moving out of Parnell Square - via O'Connell Street to the Dail.

More than 20,000 are expected on it.

If anyone can get any photos and post them here, it would be appreciated.

[C. Flower]

30 + students reported by the WSM to have occupied the Department of Finance.

The first sign of life in there for months, by some accounts.

http://bit.ly/btu4pD

[C. Flower]

News is coming in that upwards of thirty students have occupied the Department of Finance in the center of Dublin with a couple of hundred supporting them in the streets outside. Tens of thousands of students are demonstrating as part of the USI protests against plans to introduce fees, these students carrying out the occupation appear to have broken away from the main demonstration which is taking place around the corner in Merrion square. Student members of the WSM, eirigi and the SWP are at the scene. Another larger group of students is reported to be outside the Dail with reports reaching us of bottles having been thrown there.
It has been reported that eggs were thrown at the building and that four Gardai horses have just arrived on the scene. Thousands of students had marched from Parnell Square to Merrion Square, where they were to addressed by student leaders, among them Union of Students in Ireland President Gary Redmond. The registration fee is expected to rise to 2500 euro, a rise of 1000 euro. USI says this will force thousands of students will be forced to drop-out.
This morning the Taoiseach refused to say in the Dáil if third-level fees would be introduced or capitation fees increased in Budget. Brian Cowen said it was imperative that all areas would be considered for reductions and no area could be ringfenced or immune to cuts.


\wsm

[Dr. FIVE]

Their probably all on lunch anyway

[C. Flower]

There is a report of police horses being used to move demonstrators at the DoF and of lunch (cans and mars bars) being thrown over the Dail gates.

[DCon]

30 + students reported by the WSM to have occupied the Department of Finance.

The first sign of life in there for months, by some accounts.

http://bit.ly/btu4pD

Can we leave the students in there and send the DoF drones back to college?

I cannot see any harm coming from this.

As Cassandra Syndrome has said before, the current DoF could not predict a riot after a West Ham - Milwall football game..

[C. Flower]

My view is that we should keep them there to write a 5 year plan (why be cheapskate with this 4 year nonsense).

What possible harm could they do ?

[Ah Well]

Did the IMF/Euro types get out before the Students invaded the DoF... or are they still hiding in some room in there?

[DCon]

getting rowdy

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/187400003.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1288799758&Signature=x8wi5EXfKbn2XvHid8zd90yhw9k%3D

http://twitpic.com/33kmrn

[antiestablishmentarian]

Feck...and I was going to go up to it too...

[C. Flower]

http://a.yfrog.com/img573/4482/96sx.jpg

[C. Flower]

Reports of police with batons drawn moving students from the D o F.

[antiestablishmentarian]

http://a.yfrog.com/img573/4482/96sx.jpg

Thats the official protest Cactus, the real stuff is going on in Kildare Street apparently where it has just got ugly. Baton wielding thugs on horseback are attacking protestors.

[BrendanGalway]

Dammit! Would love to be there right now!

[C. Flower]

Three students reported injured, and again, as I've pointed out before, Gardai are hitting people on the head - against international policing recommendations.

From the WSM site -



A WSM reporter at the scene said that "The numbers outside the Department are still growing as people come up from the other at the Dail. There are now maybe four hundred on Baggot Row. The Dail was egged and bottled by a breakaway march of about a thousand, many of whom are here now. The Department is also being egged." Inside the Dail Ciaran Cannon reported on Twitter that empty bottles, cans, several eggs and a sliced pan had been thrown.
"Some of the crowd outside are now trying to push through the doors to get into the Department, a line of Gardai are trying to push them back" (14.35)
"Riot vans are being brought up, students are now throwing eggs at these" (15.05)
"Line of horse cops trying to clear the streets,, totally surrounded by sitting students now. Well over five hundred on the street, can't see more. Line of cops in front of the building too" (15.12)
"Riot cops have now formed a line, there is a sit down protest in progress in front of them. The students occupying the building have been got out, kicking. " (15.15) - this cut off with the word people, see below
"At least three students have been injured. Cops are hitting people on the head with batons" (15:24)
"Seems gardai are gaining upper hand, crowd dispersing, someone put up a free beer poster"(Johnny Fallon at 15.26 on Twitter)
"They batoned lines of people, dragged away a lot of people but at least some were just thrown outside the cordon rather than arrested. Now they're forcing people away with a line of riot police. At least one person was injured in the eviction. Sorry for the last text, was getting smacked" (15.28)
"Riot cops, horses and a dog have forced everyone back down towards Stephen's Green. Still at least a hundred people facing off with the line of police on Stephen's Green, they are being run back. We have just been charged by horses" (15.40)
Reports on offical state media (RTE) published an hour after these clashes were first reported here on wsm.ie reported the deployment of mounted Gardai and armoured vehicles and that "Violent scenes are continuing between a large number of riot police, gardaí and students. Some students have bloody noses and one student has been carried away, possibly unconscious." but went on to claim that "Some students have expressed deep upset at the outbreak of violence."
In advance of the protest Free Education for Everyone (FEE) had issued a call to meet up to form a Socialist bloc at The Ambassador Theatre. FEE said defeating the cuts "will only happen if students like you get involved." and describes itself as "an active campaign against fees and youth unemployment that strives to organise second and third level students right across the country. It is currently organised in UCD, Trinity, Maynooth, NUIG, UCC and UL. FEE has organised a series of protests, blockades and occupations against fees. FEE members are actively involved in their Students’ Unions as well as building FEE.We are aiming to build a mass movement that can defeat fees and education cuts. "

[antiestablishmentarian]

The guards are possibly going OTT as a warning to others thinking of the same thing coming up to the budget, apparently one student is unconscious.

[C. Flower]

Today in 1839 armed miners march on Newport to free political prisoners. An important event in the burgeoning Chartist movement.


Where is Iolo today?

This was what they have been training up in Belcamp for.

But hitting people on the heads with batons is life threatening and should not be tolerated. It would not be allowed in the British police force and their riot police are heavy handed enough.

[DCon]

But hitting people on the heads with batons is life threatening and should not be tolerated. It would not be allowed in the British police force and their riot police are heavy handed enough.

Agree completely. Hitting somebody on the shoulder with a baton will take them out just as easily.

[C. Flower]

YouTube - IMG 1915

[Sam Lord]

But hitting people on the heads with batons is life threatening and should not be tolerated. It would not be allowed in the British police force and their riot police are heavy handed enough.

You should go down and tell them that Cactus ....:)

[C. Flower]

Video of the march. Estimates of between 30,000 and 40,000.

http://bit.ly/bDJU9U

[C. Flower]

You should go down and tell them that Cactus ....:)

I'm telling the Press and they're retweeting. Thanks for the suggestion.

People don't even seem to know they have a right not to be killed.

[moss]

Agree completely. Hitting somebody on the shoulder with a baton will take them out just as easily.


They are unaccountable scum and will do as they please.
High time somebody put manners on them.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I can't see any identification numbers on the uniforms of those riot police or on their shields either.

[C. Flower]

We do want to repeat, there were groups there inciting Gardai but the handling of the situation was simply awful. #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) 10 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29584080468) via web

<LI id=status_29583949829 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="5">Our footage is going up on Vimeo now #studentsmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentsmarch), plenty of it. 11 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29583949829) via web

<LI id=status_29583886999 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="6">However, a number of student groups were clearly intent of causing a riot, and were joined by others who incited Gards 12 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29583886999) via web

<LI id=status_29583743620 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="7">Our reporters agree that the level of violence was entirely excessive by the Gardai and that the sit-in was not a "riot" #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) 14 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29583743620) via web

<LI id=status_29583641314 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="8">This skirmish spread into a much larger crowd of students leaving the rally, with many being injured either by sitters or #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) 15 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29583641314) via web

<LI id=status_29583572730 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="9">Gardai charged with batons first, dispersing most, before following on horses, with vans and with dogs as a skirmish broke out #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) 16 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29583572730) via web

<LI id=status_29583487792 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="10">Gardai informed sitters that they would be charged if they failed to move, at which point projectiles were thrown #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) 17 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29583487792) via web

<LI id=status_29583441266 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="11">Students groups did a sit-in in front of the Dept of Finance, some from left-wing groups, others simply in protest #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) 17 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29583441266) via web

<LI id=status_29583313528 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="12">Here's the synopsis of what happened from our reporters on the scene... #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) 19 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29583313528) via web

<LI id=status_29583306131 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="13">http://yfrog.com/6gbfdkj (http://yfrog.com/6gbfdkj) Fianna Fail the emigration party sign at #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) 19 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29583306131) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29583099581 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="14">http://yfrog.com/go3bnj (http://yfrog.com/go3bnj) March moving out 30 mins ago 21 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29583099581) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29583056092 class="hentry u-sob999 share status" nodeIndex="15">sob999 (http://twitter.com/sob999) Gardai with batons drawn have driven protestors from merrion st to Kildare ST. Pic from outside Shelbiurne Hotel http://yfrog.com/fx96sxj (http://yfrog.com/fx96sxj) 27 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/sob999/status/29582596277) via Twitterrific (http://twitterrific.com/) Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live) and 14 others

<LI id=status_29582822941 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="16">http://yfrog.com/2sv3wej (http://yfrog.com/2sv3wej) Students still coming across O Connell bridge 30 minutes on... 25 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29582822941) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29582809289 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="17">http://yfrog.com/fyviyj (http://yfrog.com/fyviyj) Trinity frint square, TCDSU President about to speak. 25 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29582809289) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29582579078 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="18">Number of people have commented on enormous use of violence by Gardai, seeing streams of bloodied faces now #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) 27 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29582579078) via web

<LI id=status_29582399307 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="19">http://yfrog.com/0qtmrpj (http://yfrog.com/0qtmrpj) Thousands have turned out at #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) 29 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29582399307) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29582384716 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status last-on-page" nodeIndex="20">Standing beside Sean Flynn, Education Editor of Irish Times. Has heard lowervestimates. Truth? no-one ever knows #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) 30 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29582384716) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29582372703 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="21">http://yfrog.com/ncaa2fj (http://yfrog.com/ncaa2fj) More marchers at #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) 30 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29582372703) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29582320474 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="22">Reporter @abandonbrain (http://twitter.com/abandonbrain): Violent clashes between Gards and student/leftist groups continuing at #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) follow us for details 30 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29582320474) via web

<LI id=status_29582251156 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="23">"5, 6, 7, 8 we don't want to emigrate" says the stage before making a mess if his words! 31 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29582251156) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

[C. Flower]

<LI id=status_29582202237 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="24">Reporter @abandonbrain (http://twitter.com/abandonbrain): Anarchists, WSM, SWP, Socialist Party, SF flags can be seen. "Seems like this is no longer about education": 32 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29582202237) via web

<LI id=status_29581969863 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="25">Reporter @abandonbrain (http://twitter.com/abandonbrain): Gards are running at people and hitting them with shields and batons; serious violence 34 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29581969863) via web

<LI id=status_29581889232 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="26">Reporter @abandonbrain (http://twitter.com/abandonbrain): Another Garda van charge, moving students down the road. Arrests being made it seems 35 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29581889232) via web

<LI id=status_29581835004 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="27">Reporter @abandonbrain (http://twitter.com/abandonbrain): Quite a few injuries, people with blood are being carried off everywhere 36 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29581835004) via web

<LI id=status_29581719053 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="28">Students leaving protest inside coffin marked RIP Knowledge Economy #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) stunt 37 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29581719053) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29581715945 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="29">Reporter @abandonbrain (http://twitter.com/abandonbrain): Gards now holding the line and have taken out the Garda dogs 37 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29581715945) via web

<LI id=status_29581569956 class="hentry u-buzzoneill share status" nodeIndex="30">buzzoneill (http://twitter.com/buzzoneill) Live tweets from student protest here @UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live) and from inside the now occupied dept of educ. @redmum (http://twitter.com/redmum) @SamanthaLibreri (http://twitter.com/SamanthaLibreri) @Newstalkfm (http://twitter.com/Newstalkfm) 44 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/buzzoneill/status/29581174801) via Echofon (http://www.echofon.com/) Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live) and 2 others

<LI id=status_29581491503 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="31">It's all getting a bit nasty on Merrion now, one student being led away bleeding. 40 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29581491503) via web

<LI id=status_29581421623 class="hentry u-PoliticsIE share status" nodeIndex="32">PoliticsIE (http://twitter.com/PoliticsIE) Pics seconds ago from outside Dept of Finance http://pie.ly/98lbxc (http://pie.ly/98lbxc) - it appears to be Socialist Workers throwing stuff at Gardai 42 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/PoliticsIE/status/29581300795) via bitly (http://bit.ly/) Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live) and 5 others

<LI id=status_29581405479 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="33">From what our reporters can see there is a mix of politically-motivated protestors and student rabble (lots drunk) in scuffle. 41 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29581405479) via web

<LI id=status_29581327299 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="34">Reporters in the field: Gards moved everyone out of Dept of Finance by force and all is now kicking off on Merrion Row 42 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29581327299) via web

<LI id=status_29581132602 class="hentry u-martinjmckenna share status" nodeIndex="35">martinjmckenna (http://twitter.com/martinjmckenna) A shame RT @donnchadholeary (http://twitter.com/donnchadholeary) Skirmish between Gardai and Students on Merrion Row http://twitpic.com/33kmrn (http://twitpic.com/33kmrn) 45 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/martinjmckenna/status/29581070210) via web Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live) and 1 other

<LI id=status_29581075992 class="hentry u-walsh_i share status" nodeIndex="36">walsh_i (http://twitter.com/walsh_i) "No ifs, no buts, no education cuts" EDUCATION NOT EMIGRATION! #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) http://twitpic.com/33kana (http://twitpic.com/33kana) about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/walsh_i/status/29576246701) via Dabr (http://m.dabr.co.uk/) Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live)

<LI id=status_29581074074 class="hentry u-ISM030 share status" done58="0" nodeIndex="37" done56="0">ISM030 (http://twitter.com/ISM030) VIDEO: up to 40,000 students protesting in the streets of Dublin now: http://bit.ly/bDJU9U (http://bit.ly/bDJU9U) #ism (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23ism) #globalEdu (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23globalEdu) #ourUni (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23ourUni) #ucstrike (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23ucstrike) #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/ISM030/status/29576375582) via web Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live)

<LI id=status_29580969579 class="hentry u-aengusmaynooth share status" nodeIndex="38">aengusmaynooth (http://twitter.com/aengusmaynooth) Going on KFM in two minutes #nov3rd (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23nov3rd) #EducationNotEmigration (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23EducationNotEmigration) #StudentMarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23StudentMarch) about 6 hours ago (http://twitter.com/aengusmaynooth/status/29557173348) via web Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live)

<LI id=status_29580964884 class="hentry u-aoifenir share status" nodeIndex="39">aoifenir (http://twitter.com/aoifenir) I'm really pissed off that everyone keeps typing 'student's union'. It's 'students' union' dammit! #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/aoifenir/status/29578723675) via HTC Peep (http://www.htc.com/) Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live)

<LI id=status_29580919539 class="hentry u-Maldini share status last-on-page" nodeIndex="40">Maldini (http://twitter.com/Maldini) Mariahs + Horses brought in now on Merrion Row, the vast majority are peaceful apart from a few idiots #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) #studentprotest (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentprotest) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/Maldini/status/29579389594) via Twitter for iPhone (http://twitter.com/) Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live)

<LI id=status_29580842263 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="41">Getting updates from the sit-in/occupation now, more to follow #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29580842263) via web

<LI id=status_29580831814 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="42">En route to Dept of Finance where a group we've been told are called left bloc have begun an occupation #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29580831814) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

[C. Flower]

<LI id=status_29580690318 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="43">http://yfrog.com/jo2u7nj (http://yfrog.com/jo2u7nj) Pay my fees or pay my dole sign #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29580690318) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29580372037 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="44">UCC sign "the student and the polar bear, both doomed" #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29580372037) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29580364695 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="45">"Biggest student march since 1960" Gary Redmond #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29580364695) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29580359675 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="46">Garda estimate is 35,000. about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29580359675) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29580350468 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="47">BBC reporting 40,000 at today's march. First real estimate I've heard #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29580350468) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29580277256 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="48">USI President Gary Redmond says education is the answer to economic woes #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29580277256) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29580275360 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="49">http://yfrog.com/1fb4fkj (http://yfrog.com/1fb4fkj) "If this was France **** would be on fire"... True but just spoke to a Garda who said students "impeccably behaved" about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29580275360) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29579514547 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="50">"I am a vote" chant is theme of #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29579514547) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29579511493 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="51">TDs locked into Dail, refusing to come out says stage at #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29579511493) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

Margaret Hughes has written in to say "well done to students for this #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch), rest of the country should follow" about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29579505582) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)


When front of march reached stage back were still on O Connell UT reporters tell us #massive (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23massive) #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29578898938) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)


"One of largest protests this country has seen in recent times" says stage #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29578896602) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)


"We all dream of affordable degrees" to tune of Yellow Submarine is latest effort. about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29578894247) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)


Mounted guards charge sit down protesters at department of finance about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29578550308) via Twitter for iPhone (http://twitter.com/)


Stage is cheerleading with Amy Winehouse adaptation "They tried to raise our reg fee... We said no, no, no" #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29578370768) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)


Sinn Fein Letterkenny say 2011 will bring a new brain drain #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29578365420) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)


At dept of finance now, no indications of disturbance about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29578155192) via Twitter for iPhone (http://twitter.com/)


NUI Maynooth playing Heaven is a halfpipe on ghetto blaster. Makes a break from incessant whistling! #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29578120518) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)


Paul from #TCD (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23TCD) BESS JF says gees are inevitable and the SUs should 'get over it' about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29577691533) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)


ronanmooney (http://twitter.com/ronanmooney) Thats more like it @hughcurran (http://twitter.com/hughcurran) Rest of students are coming apparently http://twitpic.com/33jncq (http://twitpic.com/33jncq) @xActionMaNx (http://twitter.com/xActionMaNx) @UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live) #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 3 hours ago (http://twitter.com/ronanmooney/status/29570983722) via web Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live)


stobserver (http://twitter.com/stobserver) Left block in dept finance. #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/stobserver/status/29577424738) via Ag Tweet (http://agtweet.com/) Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live) and 1 other


Young Fine Gael DIT have told us graduate tax wouldn't cause one emigration. #Studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23Studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29577309582) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)


Protest has certainly sparked debate... People on Grafton discussing issue as I grab sambo #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29577306315) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)


Last time I had €3000 was my confo quips Donegal girl Amy... Wow, some set of aunties and uncles about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29577301128) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)


WSMIreland (http://twitter.com/WSMIreland) Students storm Department of Finance in Dubin: News is coming in that upwards of thirty students have occupied t... http://bit.ly/btu4pD (http://bit.ly/btu4pD) about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/WSMIreland/status/29576828524) via twitterfeed (http://twitterfeed.com/) Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live) and 7 others


Our parents aren't on your wage packet Mary say DIT students about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29576945659) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)


http://yfrog.com/2ft61j (http://yfrog.com/2ft61j) Students from IT Carlow protest at the #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29576940630) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)
<LI class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status" nodeIndex="51">

[C. Flower]

<LI id=status_29576746099 class="hentry u-stobserver share status">stobserver (http://twitter.com/stobserver) Bbc estimates 40000 students on streets #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/stobserver/status/29576080305) via Ag Tweet (http://agtweet.com/) Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live) and 1 other

<LI id=status_29576726638 class="hentry u-twixter09 share status">twixter09 (http://twitter.com/twixter09) This march is about Ireland's future and the role that thousand of students want to play in that. #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/twixter09/status/29576412892) via web Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live)

<LI id=status_29576638508 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status">Go back to your libraries, go back to your campuses, tell your TDs - we are the future of this country" Gary Redmond #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) #nov3rd (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23nov3rd) about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29576638508) via Twitter for iPhone (http://twitter.com/)

<LI id=status_29576523914 class="hentry u-DiYLAN share status">DiYLAN (http://twitter.com/DiYLAN) So much energy and anger here, people booing Mercs coming out of Leinster House back gate. Leinster House now in Lockdown apparently. about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/DiYLAN/status/29576339750) via Echofon (http://www.echofon.com/) Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live) and 1 other

<LI id=status_29576514624 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status">Boos for cowen #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) #nov3rd (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23nov3rd) #unsurprising (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23unsurprising) about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29576514624) via Twitter for iPhone (http://twitter.com/)

<LI id=status_29576430724 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status">http://yfrog.com/f15txoj (http://yfrog.com/f15txoj) Education not Emigration protest leaves Parnell. #Studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23Studentmarch) about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29576430724) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

<LI id=status_29576424906 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status">80-year old man to me: "never forget, we are their masters, they are not our masters" about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29576424906) via Twitter for iPhone (http://twitter.com/)

<LI id=status_29576043296 class="hentry u-Smurphette85 share status">Smurphette85 (http://twitter.com/Smurphette85) Over 40,000 students making their voices heard! #nov3rd (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23nov3rd) about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/Smurphette85/status/29575993427) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/) Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live)

<LI id=status_29576024551 class="hentry u-alan_butler share status">alan_butler (http://twitter.com/alan_butler) WOAH! dems a lot of voters! RT @ronanmooney (http://twitter.com/ronanmooney): Huge number in Merrion Sq. now #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) http://twitpic.cohttp (http://twitpic.cohttp/)://twitpic.com/33k6gm about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/alan_butler/status/29575933212) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/) Retweeted by UTprotest_live (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live) and 1 other

<LI id=status_29576017775 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status">Some protesters starting to leave now #studentmarch (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23studentmarch) http://yfrog.us/55w9iz (http://yfrog.us/55w9iz) about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/UTprotest_live/status/29576017775) via Twitter for iPhone (http://twitter.com/)

<LI id=status_29575970574 class="hentry u-UTprotest_live status">@ronanmooney (http://twitter.com/ronanmooney) no that's ok just wanted

[C. Flower]

BBC, who are conservative estimators - are saying that 40,000 plus are demonstrating.

[antiestablishmentarian]

BBC, who are conservative estimators - are saying that 40,000 plus are demonstrating.

Link??

[C. Flower]

Link??

If you look in the tweet lists up above, you'll find it.

There are some very good photos showing the scale of the demonstration from the Journal, here

http://www.thejournal.ie/in-pictures-the-student-protest-2010-11/

[Sidewinder]

40,000 begod. Somebody needs to start organising soup and sambos and shelters and turn this into a permanent protest. Govt will be gone by Monday.

[C. Flower]

Good video here of the D o F protest -

YouTube - Part 4 - Irish Students Protest (Department of Finance) - Dublin 3/11/10

[shockwarp]

Well done to the students today, great turnout and most of them made some noise while being peaceful. Great to see.

Very sly and rotton of the usual lunatic fringe of Eirigh, SWP etc to turn up and hijack it.

[yehbut_nobut]

http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2010/11/Protest-ronanmooney-300x400.jpg

Bedad that's a lot of students!

[antiestablishmentarian]

The FF spivs over yonder are scared witless by this turn of events. The sight of mass protest for the first time is something they didn't expect.

[C. Flower]

The FF spivs over yonder are scared witless by this turn of events. The sight of mass protest for the first time is something they didn't expect.

It will be the first time a lot of people there will have really appreciated what being in the majority, the mass, really means.

[Justin Casey]

The Bill and Ted-style narration to this is gas.



YouTube - Part 1 - Irish Students Protest - Dublin 3/11/10

[antiestablishmentarian]

Oh it's the 'militants' now according to RTE...praising the guards, talking about intimidation from the students...

[moss]

Well done to the students today, great turnout and most of them made some noise while being peaceful. Great to see.

Very sly and rotton of the usual lunatic fringe of Eirigh, SWP etc to turn up and hijack it.


What is sly and rotten about it ? Could it be that they have members who are students ?

[Newsy]

Oh it's the 'militants' now according to RTE...praising the guards, talking about intimidation from the students...

I heard it. Disgraceful.

[mutley]

I heard it. Disgraceful.




Why were the riot police there, and why were they trying to break up the protest? Have people no right to protest any more?

[Sidewinder]

Oh it's the 'militants' now according to RTE...praising the guards, talking about intimidation from the students...

So a cohort of heavily-armoured well-trained men with shields, batons, horses, armoured cars and the entire oppressive weight of the gombeen statelet behind them were "intimidated" by a crowd of boys and girls armed with...eggs.

Like all bullies and toadies, the various components of the FF machine are all degenerate filthy cowards. One good hard shove back and they'll all be scurrying for the lifeboats.

[Sam Lord]

Fair play to the students.

The slogan for the movement should be "No to cutbacks except for the cops".

[antiestablishmentarian]

So a cohort of heavily-armoured well-trained men with shields, batons, horses, armoured cars and the entire oppressive weight of the gombeen statelet behind them were "intimidated" by a crowd of boys and girls armed with...eggs.

Like all bullies and toadies, the various components of the FF machine are all degenerate filthy cowards. One good hard shove back and they'll all be scurrying for the lifeboats.

+1

Yeah, and this is only a fraction of what they've been doing up in Rossport which I've seen first hand. They're a shower of thugs. End of.

[Munnkeyman]

The Guards have been practising for this over the last few months alongside
soldiers in the barracks in Galway.
They are ready for bigger and more vicious riots, unfortunately.

The people are going to have to join the students.
Wait until the next budget :D:D:D

[antiestablishmentarian]

There's reports (unverified) that people saw 'students' dressed in USI t-shirts driving black Mondeo's, replete with recording information and antennae, down towards Merrion St today. For those who don't know btw, a Mondeo is the preferred transport of the Special Branch. Possibility of agents provocateurs anyone? Or am I just paranoid...

[jinnyjoe]

Well Young Dan I think young APJP trumped you there. Well done APJP, very well articulated and written, your education thus far is paying off. Alas Young Dan yours hasn't. Shame!

It's an absolute disgrace what the government are proposing, doubling fees, whilst there are no prospect of jobs out there, tut tut, how stupid. What will these poor kids do now???? It's a a situation you (the government) created, don't take it out on our school leavers please!!!:(

[C. Flower]

There's reports (unverified) that people saw 'students' dressed in USI t-shirts driving black Mondeo's, replete with recording information and antennae, down towards Merrion St today. For those who don't know btw, a Mondeo is the preferred transport of the Special Branch. Possibility of agents provocateurs anyone? Or am I just paranoid...

There was a lot of photography and video taken today. Worth a careful look over.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Sounds like a serious look at perks and making them accountable under FOI and international policing standards would be a good idea if they want to go down the 'heavy' road.

Gardai would want to be very careful about getting heavyhanded while defending a bent government.

Any reforms after this despicable shower of chancers are fired out of office will have to include holding the Gardai to account and getting names on files and so on. Haven't heard a thing about the two clowns in Wexford who blew a murder case recently. Presumably off with stress.

[whydontwe]

A €3,000 Registration Fee for third level students is being floated, with a suggestion that the Greens would "settle" at €2,500.

This would be the definitive end of the free Third Level fees in Ireland, introduced under the Rainbow Coalition Government.

The USI is saying that the fee would be a deterrent and would force people to drop out.

In the event of an IMF/EU arrival, student fees would almost certainly be a requirement.

I haven't heard any discussion of student loans - student loans are going to be the next big default item in the US and UK, after sub prime property and along with credit card debt.

Hey CFlower...I heard today on radio that uni is free in the likes of Denmark...is that true? Also that some other euro countries have a 'completely free' ed system....if so ...makes our politicians even more untruthful...don't ye think? Is it true?

[jinnyjoe]

Sounds like a serious look at perks and making them accountable under FOI and international policing standards would be a good idea if they want to go down the 'heavy' road.

Gardai would want to be very careful about getting heavyhanded while defending a bent government.

Any reforms after this despicable shower of chancers are fired out of office will have to include holding the Gardai to account and getting names on files and so on. Haven't heard a thing about the two clowns in Wexford who blew a murder case recently. Presumably off with stress.

Agreed Captain Con, watched news report on 6.01 RTE news and sifting through the RTE pro government s**te, in all honesty it was the Gardai that looked more like thugs to me, IMHO, any incitement seemed to come from them. Right shower of turncoats!!!

[mutley]

Hey CFlower...I heard today on radio that uni is free in the likes of Denmark...is that true? Also that some other euro countries have a 'completely free' ed system....if so ...makes our politicians even more untruthful...don't ye think? Is it true?

Would it be free for me to study for a degree in Denmark, I was amazed to learn that even though I was from Northern Ireland I could have done a degree in the south for free,


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[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Agreed Captain Con, watched news report on 6.01 RTE news and sifting through the RTE pro government s**te, in all honesty it was the Gardai that looked more like thugs to me, IMHO, any incitement seemed to come from them. Right shower of turncoats!!!

If they are planning to crack heads and enjoy themselves while pulling a salary and perks from this government they'd better understand that if it goes wrong there will be payback.

Its a small island and as I've said before the best way to defeat heavy handed policing on the streets of Dublin is to run distractor demos there, peacefully stewarded and take the payback out into the local areas where FF can't hide behind a line of unidentified uniforms.

Why play the game the way the thugs want it? Much more of that and it would be better to do flashmob events around the country where FF TD's and sheep are nervous.

[C. Flower]

http://img.rasset.ie/0003e010-640.jpg

[antiestablishmentarian]

http://img.rasset.ie/0003e010-640.jpg

I imagine they got alot of practice in Mayo from the looks of things.

[morticia]

Well, fair play to the students. Sadly, they don't have a hope in hell of succeeding; the money ain't there and the Budget will be forced through regardless, either by our own lot or the EU/IMF

Very depressing. Death knell for social mobility and all that. Why can't we have a graduate tax??

[C. Flower]

Well, fair play to the students. Sadly, they don't have a hope in hell of succeeding; the money ain't there and the Budget will be forced through regardless, either by our own lot or the EU/IMF

Very depressing. Death knell for social mobility and all that. Why can't we have a graduate tax??

In Eastern Europe whole generations have been squeezed out of the University education that their parents took for granted.

Who needs a degree to work in Tesco and Betfair ?

[morticia]

Actually, the likes of Betfair and Paddy Power employ some serious brainiacs in the auld statistical calculation of the odds department..... the numerate only need apply. Similar to actuarial work, I think.

I know what you mean though...

[C. Flower]

Actually, the likes of Betfair and Paddy Power employ some serious brainiacs in the auld statistical calculation of the odds department..... the numerate only need apply. Similar to actuarial work, I think.

I know what you mean though...

Point taken.

I've just come across


PRESS RELEASE: A statement regarding events today at the Dept. of Finance.
by Fee Maynooth on Wednesday, November 3, 2010 at 6:10pm
Students from Free Education for Everyone (NUI Maynooth, NUI Galway) and the Students in Solidarity Network (University College Dublin, Trinity College Dublin) issued a call for a clearly visible left-wing presence on today’s demonstration against the re-introduction of third level fees, in the form of a registration fee increase or otherwise. This call was answered by student activists from a range of political organisations, including the Socialist Workers Party, Socialist Party, Workers Solidarity Movement, éirigí , the 32CSM and others. For the most part however, the call was answered by independent students.

Up to 1,000 students joined our breakaway at Kildare Street, staging a short sit down protest outside the home of the corrupt and unaccountable political establishment of this state. Recognising the futility of marching from A to B and listening to the same speeches from aspiring politicians, many of these students joined us in marching to the Department of Finance where a sit in demonstration was held. It is the Department of Finance which is attacking ordinary working people with such vigour in recent times, and this occupation was symbolic of the anger of students and the Irish public.

We are not the “anti- social, hooligan element of the student movement,” rather today we showed that we are perfectly in touch with the anger felt by the student body. The sight of thousands of students outside, cheering on the direct action showed the positive effect such direct action can have on the Irish student movement. Such actions, we believe, are a necessary step forward. This government wish to attack education, public services and working people and this must be resisted.

There was no act of violence carried out by those protesting at the Department, and any violence outside was instigated by the inept response of the Gardai. Students sitting on the road in protest were baton charged repeatedly by Gardaí, with many suffering injuries. One female student was knocked unconscious during the assault on the crowd, and other students clearly displayed head injuries. “The Gardaí rushed the crowd on numerous occasions, including spectators on the street. The crowd, which at this point had swelled up to 2,000 students with many from the main demonstration joining us, vented their anger at the response of the Gardaí who had begun encircling them” said Lorcan Myles, a Free Education for Everyone activist who witnessed the events. We make no apologies for the direct action taken.

Ultimately, events like today’s will happen in a society where people are under constant attack from the political establishment. The arrests and attacks carried out on students today will not deter the movement.

Our thanks to all who joined the Bloc.
ENDS.

Free Education for Everyone and The Students In Solidarity Network are independent student grassroots campaigns active in numerous Irish third level institutions. Previous protests have included resisting the appointment of Bertie Ahern T.D by NUI Maynooth as an Honorary Professor, opposing numerous TD’s visits to various campuses including Belfield and NUI Galway and building broad student support for a left wing and grassroots student movement.
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I support the students who occupied the DoF, but this type of Bloc appears to me to be open to manipulation or use by provocateurs as it could pull people out from under the "Party discipline" of their individual organisations. A bit of care needs to be taken.

http://www.facebook.com/notes/fee-maynooth/press-release-a-statement-regarding-events-today-at-the-dept-of-finance/493785436473


http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1124.snc4/148670_172586122754220_100000084993827_610905_2954 375_n.jpg

[Apjp]

http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2010/11/Protest-ronanmooney-300x400.jpg

Bedad that's a lot of students!

was there!! I WAS THERE!!! and thats all i have ta say about that!!!!!....

[Apjp]

What is sly and rotten about it ? Could it be that they have members who are students ?

both. a small minority of students were drinking too-lads who prob dont even need ta protest, and just waste their parents money on drink. most of us were there to let our voice be heard. the protest was peaceful-the rest was an ugly after party by a shower of bastards like that eirigi crowd. swp were also rumoured by RTE to be involved. WE WILL BRING THIS GOVT DOWN!

[C. Flower]

was there!! I WAS THERE!!! and thats all i have ta say about that!!!!!....

You were there. :)

[Apjp]

well young dan i think young apjp trumped you there. Well done apjp, very well articulated and written, your education thus far is paying off. Alas young dan yours hasn't. Shame!

It's an absolute disgrace what the government are proposing, doubling fees, whilst there are no prospect of jobs out there, tut tut, how stupid. What will these poor kids do now???? It's a a situation you (the government) created, don't take it out on our school leavers please!!!:(

thanks lad. :)

[Apjp]

Would it be free for me to study for a degree in Denmark, I was amazed to learn that even though I was from Northern Ireland I could have done a degree in the south for free,


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Good friday agreement-you are Irish unless you say otherwise.

[Apjp]

You were there. :)

yeah..cant wait ta see it on reeling in the years when im an old man haha. it was historical!! here is to another day of historical protests just like this one, navans one on saturday against the budget!!!

[Newsy]

was there!! I WAS THERE!!! and thats all i have ta say about that!!!!!....

I salute you, Apjp.

[C. Flower]

YouTube - Police Brutality Student Protest Dublin.3GP

[moss]

both. a small minority of students were drinking too-lads who prob dont even need ta protest, and just waste their parents money on drink. most of us were there to let our voice be heard. the protest was peaceful-the rest was an ugly after party by a shower of bastards like that eirigi crowd. swp were also rumoured by RTE to be involved. WE WILL BRING THIS GOVT DOWN!


Calm yourself down.

You seen somebody drinking and assume they were eirigi ?? Or is that just a ham-fisted attempt by youself to link the two ??

And you believe RTE about the SWP being involved....involved in what ?

They have as much right to protest as you.

EDIT : I'm honestly not sure if I've ever read so many assumptions in one post on this site.

[C. Flower]

Calm yourself down.

You seen somebody drinking and assume they were eirigi ?? Or is that just a ham-fisted attempt by youself to link the two ??

And you believe RTE about the SWP being involved....involved in what ?

They have as much right to protest as you.

EDIT : I'm honestly not sure if I've ever read so many assumptions in one post on this site.

If you/apjp look back a couple of posts, I posted a press release, a photo and a video or two of events at the DoF. The protest looks to me to be well organised and peaceful.
On twitter, I heard at the time one or two people were drunk there - not identified with any organisation.

[Dr. FIVE]

What ever your views of the people behind these things and how they choose to go about them.
The main reason why the ' Irish aren't on the streets ' has become clear this week for anybody who still didn't get it.

We know if we take to the streets there are still plenty of Irish ready to round on us and kick us back down at every turn.

[moss]

If you/apjp look back a couple of posts, I posted a press release, a photo and a video or two of events at the DoF. The protest looks to me to be well organised and peaceful.
On twitter, I heard at the time one or two people were drunk there - not identified with any organisation.

apjp made unfounded accusations about eirigi and the SWP.

He can answer for himself I would like to think.

I've read the post and seen the pictures.

They most certainly don't back up anything apjp has claimed or hinted at.

[DCon]

If they are planning to crack heads and enjoy themselves while pulling a salary and perks from this government they'd better understand that if it goes wrong there will be payback.

Its a small island and as I've said before the best way to defeat heavy handed policing on the streets of Dublin is to run distractor demos there, peacefully stewarded and take the payback out into the local areas where FF can't hide behind a line of unidentified uniforms.

Why play the game the way the thugs want it? Much more of that and it would be better to do flashmob events around the country where FF TD's and sheep are nervous.

I would love to see a few protests in Clara.

See how much the locals love their favourite BIFFO when the kip is gridlocked for a day and local businesses do no business

[JMcgynty]

If a garda tells you to move on it is an offence not to do so, a garda will usually do that if public safety is in danger or if a person or persons are trying to get into where they are probhibeted from going, it is their sworn duty to uphold the law and they are the reason why most law abiding citizens can lie safe in their bed at night

[greengoose]

If a garda tells you to move on it is an offence not to do so, a garda will usually do that if public safety is in danger or if a person or persons are trying to get into where they are probhibeted from going, it is their sworn duty to uphold the law and they are the reason why most law abiding citizens can lie safe in their bed at night

Many law abiding citizens are lying scared in their beds at night. You are aware of that but you need a rant. Get yourself a life! Are you waiting for mammy to yuck you into beddy byes?

[C. Flower]

apjp made unfounded accusations about eirigi and the SWP.

He can answer for himself I would like to think.

I've read the post and seen the pictures.

They most certainly don't back up anything apjp has claimed or hinted at.

My impression too. I just thought they were more useful than second hand opinion that apjp might be relying on.

[mutley]

If a garda tells you to move on it is an offence not to do so, a garda will usually do that if public safety is in danger or if a person or persons are trying to get into where they are probhibeted from going, it is their sworn duty to uphold the law and they are the reason why most law abiding citizens can lie safe in their bed at night

Boke!


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[moss]

My impression too. I just thought they were more useful than second hand opinion that apjp might be relying on.

apjp was relying on RTE and prejudice with a hint of establishment snobbery thrown in for good measure.

[JMcgynty]

Many law abiding citizens are lying scared in their beds at night. You are aware of that but you need a rant. Get yourself a life! Are you waiting for mammy to yuck you into beddy byes?

The truth hurts does it not ?
I wont apologise for supporting the garda siochana and the law of the land

[mutley]

The truth hurts does it not ?
I wont apologise for supporting the garda siochana and the law of the land

Do you support the peoples right to protest, or freedom of assembly?



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[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

If a garda tells you to move on it is an offence not to do so, a garda will usually do that if public safety is in danger or if a person or persons are trying to get into where they are probhibeted from going, it is their sworn duty to uphold the law and they are the reason why most law abiding citizens can lie safe in their bed at night

Except where it involves anyone connected with Fianna Fail it seems. Or when it comes to putting away clerical rapists.

Or when it comes to finding Fianna Fail TD's drinking after hours. Or when the FF Taoiseach breaks the law by smoking in an area where it is illegal to do so.

[greengoose]

The truth hurts does it not ?
I wont apologise for supporting the garda siochana and the law of the land

Idiot! The garda siochana did themselves proud in Donegal. They excelled in Mayo as well.

[C. Flower]

More photographs

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gfox/sets/72157625181564961/

[JMcgynty]

Idiot! The garda siochana did themselves proud in Donegal. They excelled in Mayo as well.

I support the garda siochana, law and order and the law of the land, thankfully the majority of irish people do not support anarchy or law breaking

[Apjp]

Calm yourself down.

You seen somebody drinking and assume they were eirigi ?? Or is that just a ham-fisted attempt by youself to link the two ??

And you believe RTE about the SWP being involved....involved in what ?

They have as much right to protest as you.

EDIT : I'm honestly not sure if I've ever read so many assumptions in one post on this site.

Ok, I will adress this. there was a man with an eirigi flag saying behind me in the crowd that they would be going to protest in the dept of finance-i turned round, and he was all kitted out in his eirigi gear with a can of druids and a mask(like a hat with holes painted yellow) with a few other lads next to him. based on this, I made these assumptions-not accusations-that eirigi were involved. and in fairness they are more vocal in recent days after the harney incident. The SWP were reported by RTE to have made a peaceful sit in protest-and yes they do, but I am not sure if any of us are allowed to sit in depts. FF would have seen to that!

[jinnyjoe]

was there!! I WAS THERE!!! and thats all i have ta say about that!!!!!....

Absolutely love this photo, I hope it is the one that is immortalised for this time. Cactus, Anti, Sidewinder, Captain Con and many others have been looking to this day for a while and now it's happened. I truely believe that this is just the start, the time is ripe (if a bit delayed). I'm so proud of our students today including you APJP, I think you've started something special, something that's been a long time coming but coming it is. Times they are a changing and eventually we are showing that we are angry and seriously hacked off with this Government. A proud day indeed!!

[mutley]

I support the garda siochana, law and order and the law of the land, thankfully the majority of irish people do not support anarchy or law breaking

How does protesting equate to anarchy? And how is protesting against the law?

Also please could you address the previous two questions I addressed to you

[C. Flower]

Staff at D o F, watching demonstration.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13459160@N04/5144088482

[Sidewinder]

What ever your views of the people behind these things and how they choose to go about them.
The main reason why the ' Irish aren't on the streets ' has become clear this week for anybody who still didn't get it.

We know if we take to the streets there are still plenty of Irish ready to round on us and kick us back down at every turn.

I've been droning on for years about the very real undercurrent of oppression and fear that permeates the pseudoRepublic. It's always there, lurking just under the surface, lots of nervous laughter when "inappropriate" comments are made, all that panicked fear when a good little citizen comes into contact with someone they have been trained to think is "subversive" or "dangerous" (like....Nordies), the sudden hush that will descend on a room if anyone present verbalises their real opinions on any aspect of the system....mnost people are living in a state of stress and fear and they don't even realise it.

Be a good little peasant, work hard, keep the head down, say nuttin bout nuttin. Cos troublemakers? Well we have ways of dealing with them. Mysterious obstructions to welfare benefits or access to healthcare or other public services, or planning permission refused for no reason, or your children being unaccountably refused jobs to which they are well qualified, or the Revenue or Gardaí taking a sudden unexplained close interest in your affairs, or lurid rumours suddenly swirling around the community or....

In a million little ways the maFFia have the whole country terrified. And everybody flat-out denies that any of this ever happens even when it is happening right in front of their eyes or to their frineds or family. We assure one another that "they must have deserved it, no smoke without fire, sure our Betters wouldn't be harrassing him for no reason, must have done something, I hear he's involved with some IRA lads, did ye hear about the wife..."

It's a bet-down nation. But this weeks has shown real signs that people are waking up and are ready to kick back. Once the fear of FF retribution goes, the dam will break and there could be some pretty ugly scenes across the country as people wreck revenge on those that have abused and exploited them for decades.

[Apjp]

What ever your views of the people behind these things and how they choose to go about them.
The main reason why the ' Irish aren't on the streets ' has become clear this week for anybody who still didn't get it.

We know if we take to the streets there are still plenty of Irish ready to round on us and kick us back down at every turn.

I would never kick a fellow protester down-rioters are another story. Now, whether the SWP/eirigi did is a matter for gardai. I am just saying, given their history, it is my opinion that they did. that is not an accusation-but what i think happened.

[mutley]

Good friday agreement-you are Irish unless you say otherwise.




But could students from other EU countries have come here and studied for free?

[jinnyjoe]

Staff at D o F, watching demonstration.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13459160@N04/5144088482

Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall to hear what they were saying. I'd say many were saying Fair Play to them myself!!!!

[Newsy]

absolutely love this photo, i hope it is the one that is immortalised for this time. Cactus, anti, sidewinder, captain con and many others have been looking to this day for a while and now it's happened. I truely believe that this is just the start, the time is ripe (if a bit delayed). I'm so proud of our students today including you apjp, i think you've started something special, something that's been a long time coming but coming it is. Times they are a changing and eventually we are showing that we are angry and seriously hacked off with this government. A proud day indeed!!

+1000

[JMcgynty]

Do you support the peoples right to protest, or freedom of assembly?



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It is a democratic right to be able to protes, I have taken part in protests in the past, peacefull and law abiding protests,

[C. Flower]

There's a need for a TD to take up the question of blows to the head. Someone is going to die if they keep this up.

http://free-education.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/usiblood-300x225.jpg



YouTube - Bloody headed guy in Dublin student fees protest

[C. Flower]

http://free-education.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/usi-national-protest-3-300x225.jpg

Photos from WSM website

http://www.wsm.ie/c/students-storm-department-finance-dubin

[Dr. FIVE]

I would never kick a fellow protester down-rioters are another story. Now, whether the SWP/eirigi did is a matter for gardai. I am just saying, given their history, it is my opinion that they did. that is not an accusation-but what i think happened.

Im not even talking about eirigi etc.
No one really gives a hoot about them, its not like they will ever have any say in my life.

What I mean is, say if there were protests every day from now on.
No fighting or 'rioting' but still there will always be plenty of people to put them down, call them gobsh!tes and telling them they are wasting their time.

The reactions and coverage of today and Monday only reinforces the idea that if you try and stand up, there will be plenty of your own people lined up to have a go.

I'm not SWP, eirigi, Lab, FG ,FF, anyone.
Im not that thick but what I do know is if I was to do anything in the morning, even trough a bloody bucket of water over a minister.
Rte and the rest would still find some way of turning me into some sort of gurrier.
I would get condemned for my use of serious violence and be shown as some sort of bad egg and FF could carry on into the sunset.

There was some small pockets of one group or another involved today. But they were all students, student from all corners of the country.
I suspect most families don't have that kind of money at least not for more then one of their children and don't forget there are plenty of independent mature out there that won't be able to afford this. And they are now being told they have to take it in the neck because of badly managed education and of course the banks. They have every right to what they can to stop it.

[moss]

both. a small minority of students were drinking too-lads who prob dont even need ta protest, and just waste their parents money on drink. most of us were there to let our voice be heard. the protest was peaceful-the rest was an ugly after party by a shower of bastards like that eirigi crowd. swp were also rumoured by RTE to be involved. WE WILL BRING THIS GOVT DOWN!


Ok, I will adress this. there was a man with an eirigi flag saying behind me in the crowd that they would be going to protest in the dept of finance-i turned round, and he was all kitted out in his eirigi gear with a can of druids and a mask(like a hat with holes painted yellow) with a few other lads next to him. based on this, I made these assumptions-not accusations-that eirigi were involved. and in fairness they are more vocal in recent days after the harney incident. The SWP were reported by RTE to have made a peaceful sit in protest-and yes they do, but I am not sure if any of us are allowed to sit in depts. FF would have seen to that!

Your story is changing.

Earlier it was some students were drinking, with an eirigi crowd mentioned later. Guilt by association if you like.
Now it was a fella with an eirigi flag, an eirigi t-shirt no less and drinking.

If you believe what RTE are reporting I'm at a loss for words tbh.

Whats the waffle then about 'eirigi bastards' ???
Did one of them steal your girl or what ?

All in all if you were there I'd hazard a guess you were on duty

[mutley]

Two people arrested according to RTE and no mention of Eirigi at all in the report

[jinnyjoe]

Im not even talking about eirigi etc.
No one really gives a hoot about them, its not like they will ever have any say in my life.

What I mean is, say if there were protests every day from now on.
No fighting or 'rioting' but still there will always be plenty of people to put them down, call them gobsh!tes and telling them they are wasting their time.

The reactions and coverage of today and Monday only reinforces the idea that if you try and stand up, there will be plenty of your own people lined up to have a go.

I'm not SWP, eirigi, Lab, FG ,FF, anyone.
Im not that thick but what I do know is if I was to do anything in the morning, even trough a bloody bucket of water over a minister.
Rte and the rest would still find some way of turning me into some sort of gurrier.
I would get condemned for my use of serious violence and be shown as some sort of bad egg and FF could carry on into the sunset.

There was some small pockets of one group or another involved today. But they were all students, student from all corners of the country.
I suspect most families don't have that kind of money at least not for more then one of their children and don't forget there are plenty of independent mature out there that won't be able to afford this. And they are now being told they have to take it in the neck because of badly managed education and of course the banks. They have every right to what they can to stop it.
I understand your point but you appear very disillusioned, Anti establishmentarian has a great quote on his posts
"The great appear great because we are on our knees, let us rise" by Jim Larkin. Brilliant quote, please don't be defeated remember we are the majority and if we band together we can and will win!

[Dr. FIVE]

Hard to keep the faith when the rot is all around us.

[whydontwe]

Sad....that to reclaim real democracy...decent people must resort to protest. Any one feel a '68 Paris comin' on? Anyway...what do successive govts and irresponsible politicians of all persuasions expect when they suppress the people they were elected to protect? Remember this...quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal,Satires) or...never let the foxes guard the henhouse! A 'thousand' years of education and learning....seems to have led us nowhere....also, always ask....no matter what so-called public benefit is promised by politicians....cui bono?(who benefits). Who benefits from the pre-fabs in the schools?....some politician is making money! Who exactly?

[C. Flower]

Zerohedge - reports with 4 good short videos on the demonstration - and complains that only the Americans have failed to take to the streets.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/video-footage-protests-ireland-ministry-finance-besieged

[Newsy]

Zerohedge - reports with 4 good short videos on the demonstration - and complains that only the Americans have failed to take to the streets.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/video-footage-protests-ireland-ministry-finance-besieged


Only the most bankrupt nation of all, the United States, continues to see its 300+ million cowering at home, watching sitcom reruns.

Seems unfair. What about the teaparties???

[Design for Life]

There's a need for a TD to take up the question of blows to the head. Someone is going to die if they keep this up.

http://free-education.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/usiblood-300x225.jpg



YouTube - Bloody headed guy in Dublin student fees protest (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBuHCa1WDP8&feature=player_embedded)


The problem is ... or rather the question should be "is the force in proportion to the threat posed?" Simple answer is no really. I've spoken elsewhere about it before after the protest at the Dail last May. Shots to the head like the Gardai deliver with the metal batons could leave someone brain damaged or of course dead.

There's already been a death at a protest in Britain with absolutely sweet **** all done about the assaulting policeman. You can bet your arse nothing would be done here either.

On a side note, isn't there something pathetic and absurd that the Dept. of Finance is such a fancy sexy looking building and our Dept. of Health and Children is this:

http://omg.wthax.org/Dept_of_health_and_children.jpg

[DCon]

Nice of the completely anonymous Gardai in riot gear to "treat" civilians like this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-REt8kCjCRo&feature=player_embedded#at=36


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-REt8kCjCRo&feature=player_embedded&has_verified=1#!

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I think it can be assumed that Gardai wearing no ID numbers are fair targets. If a Garda was interested in upholding the law then he or she would be properly in uniform.

Overexcited Gardai would be well advised to remember that the people they are protecting would drop them in the sh*t quick enough if it came down to some manslaughter enquiry.

And Gardai around the country would be well advised to remember also that Gardai getting out of control on the street in Dublin has consequences for the Garda on patrol in Roscommon or Kerry.

Its a small island.

[DCon]

I think it can be assumed that Gardai wearing no ID numbers are fair targets. If a Garda was interested in upholding the law then he or she would be properly in uniform.



Agreed. There should be an i.d. number on all the riot gear so that those being over zealous in the administration of their duties are plainly identifiable.

[tea drinker]

Very true Captain Con. . The tarnishing people are doing against the students, claiming they associated with "undesirables" can be applied to the Garda.
We pay the Garda wages, I know there boss is appointed by the Politicians but we pay their wages too. As employers we should assert ourselves over the Garda, Gov or any other dept. we pay for, not the other way around.
Gardai looking incapable of policing themselves or the country, let alone the crooks in Gov.

If any of the Mary Harney whingers want to know what an assault looks like, watch the vids you freaks!

[mutley]

I think the saddest thing about yesterday, is that there was talk of people hijacking the event etc, if there is going to be change in Ireland it it going to have to be all hands on deck, united, instead of lambasting those that actually got out and did something, regardless of their political persuasion, they should be congratulated, encouraged and supported physically

[Slim Buddha]

"No point in witch-hunting an obscure member of a tiny fringe group for throwing a bit of paint on the Health Minister only to find a pampered minority occupying the Finance Ministry and breaking wind in the palaces of the mighty!"*


(*Apologies to Elton-Curtis)

[Dr. FIVE]

Amazing how this ID thing comes up ever single time the shades decide to start battering people over the head in Dublin

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I know. Such an inconvenience isn't it that Gardai should have to be identifiable. Where will it all end? Next thing you know they'll be expected to be accountable for their actions.

[C. Flower]

I think the saddest thing about yesterday, is that there was talk of people hijacking the event etc, if there is going to be change in Ireland it it going to have to be all hands on deck, united, instead of lambasting those that actually got out and did something, regardless of their political persuasion, they should be congratulated, encouraged and supported physically

This will always be the case, from the press, but the USI leadership was out of order and issued statements that surely must have been made without making proper enquiries.

I think if you look at the photography on this thread that the Left Bloc was disciplined and non violent.

One girl was unconscious, others visibly concussed and there were rumours of a broken leg at the DoF.

The photography needs to be assembled properly. Tied up now, but unless someone else does it I'll pull together a separate thread on Public Order policing in Ireland later.

The Press needs to become aware that this is an issue. Any old thing at all will not do. People have a right to protest peacefully without getting killed or brain damaged.

[Dr. FIVE]

People have a right to protest peacefully without getting killed or brain damaged.

Ah shur all the spoilt and pampered students will surely be able to go private etc etc

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

How long will it be before private consultants start following protests around in the hope of business?

You could get a medical doctor on a motorbike with a pillion passenger who is a consultant and they could pass referrals and prescription pads to each other and store the money in a little safe strapped to the petrol tank.

[DCon]

This video is shocking too.

Garda brutality,how are you??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPnoAY1wXfI&feature=player_embedded

[antiestablishmentarian]

A couple of things raised here that need to be challenged I think. Eirigí and others in the left-bloc are generally disciplined and political: they're not there for a piss-up or a ruck, they're there to make their point heard, using direct action to raise publicity (which is a valid tactic). Secondly, there are no signs of anything in the pictures I've seen, or the accounts I've read and heard, to suggest that students were involved in any violence until the bullys in blue stepped in with their batons. Finally, this assumption that the protest was hijacked; between them, the SWS (SWP students), Eirigí and the WSM wouldn't be able to mobilise more than 80-90 between them from their groups alone across the State, and there were hundreds of students involved in the sit down protests. It's clear to me that there were if not a majority of ordinary students, at least a substantial number of them involved in the breakaway protests.

[antiestablishmentarian]

Point taken.

I've just come across


I support the students who occupied the DoF, but this type of Bloc appears to me to be open to manipulation or use by provocateurs as it could pull people out from under the "Party discipline" of their individual organisations. A bit of care needs to be taken.

http://www.facebook.com/notes/fee-maynooth/press-release-a-statement-regarding-events-today-at-the-dept-of-finance/493785436473




Good point, but there's also something worrying that was in the press release I don't think you picked up: he said that the Gardaí started trying to surround the demonstration, if so it seems they've picked up a few lessons in kettling tactics from their UK counterparts.

[tea drinker]

Given that the Gardai were using baton head shots against persons seated on the road I fail to see the relevance of any discussion about troublemakers or hijacking unless it revolves around the Garda actions. I have seen no evidence of violence by protestors, only by state agencies. I want to stop paying the wages for this kind of poor service.

[antiestablishmentarian]

YouTube - Police Brutality Student Protest Dublin.3GP

[Seán Ryan]

Currently there are a mass of calls for a public enquiry into garda behaviour during yesterday's debacle. Even facebook's spouted numerous campaigns for this. Baa!

What enquiry is needed?

What happened yesterday is obvious and needs no gobshytes to act as apologists for the State and we need no hand slapping as punishments handed out to the best of thugs in the gardaí.

****** the gardaí.

****** the judiciary.

****** the State.

There is no authority. There is only fear.

[Dr. FIVE]

And so it continues , 'protesters' getting attacked on liveline now.

Some woman claims she has seen democracys brought down by these 'anarchist'.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

And so it continues , 'protesters' getting attacked on liveline now.

Some woman claims she has seen democracys brought down by these 'anarchist'.

Thats a bit harsh on the Gardai.

[Dr. FIVE]

Its Liveline caller conspiracy's we should be worried about.

[Seán Ryan]

YouTube - Police attack Student demo in Dublin 3rd November 2010

[C. Flower]

Thats a bit harsh on the Gardai.

The woman didn't identify herself and claimed international experience.

The retired Gard also talked about "anarchist" danger.

Hmm.

Another set of videos via the Journal

http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/in-pictures-the-student-protest-2010-11/

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

A good idea in future would be to identify senior officers or those giving instructions- sergeants and get good photos of them.

They can be held responsible if Gardai under their instruction get out of control or at least can be identified later and question as to their ability to control a situation.

Those riot police in the TV TV segment are not wearing any identification numbers either and are even wearing balaclavas to prevent photo ID later.

The Gardai are signed up to various international agreements I believe on policing but I don't know what scope there is for them to remain unidentified in such situations. Must have a look and see what's available on that.

[disability student]

[QUOTE]A good idea in future would be to identify senior officers or those giving instructions- sergeants and get good photos of them.


I heard it from an ex shinnner - best way of identifying them is to remember their numbers on their shoulders re No and 3 letters.

They can be held responsible if Gardai under their instruction get out of control or at least can be identified later and question as to their ability to control a situation.


Those riot police in the TV TV segment are not wearing any identification numbers either and are even wearing balaclavas to prevent photo ID later.

Is there a law for this re identification re their no on their shoulder when on riot duty??


The Gardai are signed up to various international agreements I believe on policing but I don't know what scope there is for them to remain unidentified in such situations. Must have a look and see what's available on that

It reminded me of Rossport situation where it was very difficult to identify various gardai's. Where some people has to resort to photos and vidoes much to the chargin of the Gardai's.

[JMcgynty]

How could the protestors attacking our police force wearing scarves over their faces to hide their identy be identified I wonder.

[Lapsedmethodist]

[QUOTE=moss;87135]

They are unaccountable scum and will do as they please.
High time somebody put manners on them. Another pint there Pat, when you've time.

[moss]

A good idea in future would be to identify senior officers or those giving instructions- sergeants and get good photos of them.

They can be held responsible if Gardai under their instruction get out of control or at least can be identified later and question as to their ability to control a situation.

Those riot police in the TV TV segment are not wearing any identification numbers either and are even wearing balaclavas to prevent photo ID later.

The Gardai are signed up to various international agreements I believe on policing but I don't know what scope there is for them to remain unidentified in such situations. Must have a look and see what's available on that.



I heard it from an ex shinnner - best way of identifying them is to remember their numbers on their shoulders re No and 3 letters.

They can be held responsible if Gardai under their instruction get out of control or at least can be identified later and question as to their ability to control a situation.

.

Is there a law for this re identification re their no on their shoulder when on riot duty??



It reminded me of Rossport situation where it was very difficult to identify various gardai's. Where some people has to resort to photos and vidoes much to the chargin of the Gardai's.


They are unaccountable scum and will do as they please.
It's high time somebody put manners on them.

[truth.ie]

The Gardai have shown (again) that they are quite prepared to do serious damage to peaceful protestors.
What we saw yesterday was absolutely no different from Duke Street or Burntollet Bridge in 1969.
I think a good visual protest in future would be if thousands of students turned up the next time wearing hurling helmets/hard hats etc, as they do in Taiwan etc.

Totally legitimate, and it seems, necessary.

[Fing Fers]

YouTube - Police attack Student demo in Dublin 3rd November 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8VkkC6PP74)

Cheers for the video, had no idea it was that bad. Can see no reason for that carry on from the Gardai, they havent a clue, they seem to crack under pressure, its not right to be firing people around like that.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I would stress that I am not in favour of offering violence or retribution to Gardai. My own strategy would be to take direct action towards 'flying pickets' at local Cumanns and TD meetings in the constituencies.

Just like to make it clear that my postings on identifying senior officers is toward taking legal action against them or possibly even civil action where they exceed their authority or commit an assault.

Identifying senior officers means that where questions are asked about the behaviour of units under their control a case can be made that they are incapable of exercising discipline and therefore should be subject to review as senior officers. There is no statute of limitation on criminal acts I think in Ireland and the hierarchical nature of an agency like the Gardai should be borne in mind. If ordinary officers are unidentified it becomes even more important to record the IDs of senior officers present.

Just to clear up any confusion.

[JMcgynty]

Maybe the students should be sent to spec savers so they can see where they are going, or did they intentionally go where they are probhited and break the law intentionally, or maybe they are just plain stupid and havent a clue, to be fair I suppose there were only a few stupid ones that got themselves in trouble, or were they the erigi and Sinn Fein trouble makers,

[truth.ie]

When the lawmakers are the lawbreakers, there is no law.

[JMcgynty]

When the lawmakers are the lawbreakers, there is no law.

Maybe you'd liketo have Sinn Fein and erigi police the country but i wouldnt

[JMcgynty]

Dale McDermott (17), an engineering student at DIT, criticised the violence and laid the blame squarely at the door of Eirigi.

"I don't condone violence. It's like every protest, it was hijacked by the far-left, Sinn Fein and Eirigi."

The Union of Students of Ireland distanced itself from the violence claiming that their peaceful protest had been hijacked.

Among the protesters was Dublin city councillor Louise Minihan
hnews@herald.ie

[Lapsedmethodist]

French riot police : pics;
http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01398/riot-police-strang_1398908i.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/picturesoftheday/5295260/Pictures-of-the-day-8-May-2009.html%3Fimage%3D3&h=400&w=620&sz=49&tbnid=zzcixAjRsJRUtM:&tbnh=88&tbnw=136&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfrench%2Briot%2Bpolice%2B:%2Bpics&zoom=1&q=french+riot+police+:+pics&hl=en&usg=__Jv7_9wXmIAWk4UmdATn6wD0nPyw=&sa=X&ei=ryDTTIzuH8WOjAfPqoTbDQ&ved=0CCMQ9QEwAg

More riot police porn:p
http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1681485_1482189,00.html

[C. Flower]

Dale McDermott (17), an engineering student at DIT, criticised the violence and laid the blame squarely at the door of Eirigi.

"I don't condone violence. It's like every protest, it was hijacked by the far-left, Sinn Fein and Eirigi."

The Union of Students of Ireland distanced itself from the violence claiming that their peaceful protest had been hijacked.

Among the protesters was Dublin city councillor Louise Minihan
hnews@herald.ie

I heard the young guy from the USI condemning violence that he hadn't seen. Sounded like an imaginative guy.

[JMcgynty]

I heard the young guy from the USI condemning violence that he hadn't seen. Sounded like an imaginative guy.

Not quite as imaginative as people denying the truth

[truth.ie]

Maybe you'd liketo have Sinn Fein and erigi police the country but i wouldnt

Whats the difference really?
The Establishment have masked men dishing out punishment on the street, intimidates political opponents,and are linked to a political cadre thats robbed Irish banks, and forces people to leave the country.
At least the Nordies beat up drug dealers and gangsters rather than spotty students sitting on the road.

[JMcgynty]

Whats the difference really?
The Establishment have masked men dishing out punishment on the street, intimidates political opponents,and are linked to a political cadre thats robbed Irish banks, and forces people to leave the country.
At least the Nordies beat up drug dealers and gangsters rather than spotty students sitting on the road.

I suppose you believe Jerry McCabes murder by sinn fein ira was ok aswell

[JMcgynty]

Whats the difference really?
The Establishment have masked men dishing out punishment on the street, intimidates political opponents,and are linked to a political cadre thats robbed Irish banks, and forces people to leave the country.
At least the Nordies beat up drug dealers and gangsters rather than spotty students sitting on the road.

The difference is that members of sinn fein ira shot upholders of the law like garda Jerry McCabe

[JMcgynty]

and they shot Garda Gerry McCabe

[5intheface]

and they shot Garda Gerry McCabe

At a guess I'd say you are teetering on the brink of being banned for life for some of the most obvious trolling I have ever witnessed.

Now kindly explain that you are having some technical difficulty that has caused you to make the same post over and over and start debating in a sensible fashion or clear off back to the darkside.

[JMcgynty]

At a guess I'd say you are teetering on the brink of being banned for life for some of the most obvious trolling I have ever witnessed.

Now kindly explain that you are having some technical difficulty that has caused you to make the same post over and over and start debating in a sensible fashion or clear off back to the darkside.

Yes i had a technical difficulty and actually thought i was being censored which would not surprise me

[JMcgynty]

Maybe people on here want the debate to be one sided with all yes men condemning the gardai, good luck you if thats what you want

[5intheface]

Yes i had a technical difficulty and actually thought i was being censored which would not surprise me

Good now if you wouldn't mind debating the topic in hand, we are quite flexible here about moving slightly off topic at times but if something unrelated is really exorcising you, feel free to start a thread on it.

[JMcgynty]

Good now if you wouldn't mind debating the topic in hand, we are quite flexible here about moving slightly off topic at times but if something unrelated is really exorcising you, feel free to start a thread on it.

Just wondering, did anyone else go off topic here ?

[C. Flower]

Offering to lend a hand with Moderation?

So kind of you.

The topic of the thread is yesterday's demonstration. Any more off topic posts here by any poster will be deleted or hived off to a new thread, without further warning.

[Fing Fers]

An Garda Síochána is the national police service of the Republic of Ireland. Our stated Mission is: ‘Working with Communities to Protect and Serve’.

Working with Communities to Protect and Serve? My ****.

An Garda Síochána is the national police service of the Republic of Ireland. Our stated Mission is: To collect Revenue for Fianna Fáil and to beat anyone, man woman or child over the head with a batton should they have a problem with Fianna Fáil.

[5intheface]

Just wondering, did anyone else go off topic here ?

Quite possibly and probably but unfortunately for you, I went to the last page of a thread about student demonstrations and what I got was 3 posts from you about Garda McCabe.

There is a report function for the benefit of posters who feel something is unacceptable but I would request moderation in using it.

[Fraxinus]

and they shot Garda Gerry McCabe

Ah yes, the the facist branch....now they are a beacon of political control that Franco would be proud of.

[JMcgynty]

On the topic of the student demonstrations, The students union believe that their march of protest was hijacked by sinn fein, erigi, socialist workers party and other extreme left wing groups and it was them that caused the trouble, thats what they are saying.

[C. Flower]

On the topic of the student demonstrations, The students union believe that their march of protest was hijacked by sinn fein, erigi, socialist workers party and other extreme left wing groups and it was them that caused the trouble, thats what they are saying.

This has been said before on the thread. Your point is?

[Fraxinus]

Surely the students union is aware that some of their members are alligned to left wing groups?

[Apjp]

Absolutely love this photo, I hope it is the one that is immortalised for this time. Cactus, Anti, Sidewinder, Captain Con and many others have been looking to this day for a while and now it's happened. I truely believe that this is just the start, the time is ripe (if a bit delayed). I'm so proud of our students today including you APJP, I think you've started something special, something that's been a long time coming but coming it is. Times they are a changing and eventually we are showing that we are angry and seriously hacked off with this Government. A proud day indeed!!

Yes, here is to more against the budget! thanks. glad to play my small part in trying to make a difference!

[Apjp]

But could students from other EU countries have come here and studied for free?

Not really-i have a bosnian friend living here since she was three who still has to pay fees. she is practically a dual citizen. she pays over five grand as bosnia is outside the eu i think. EU students pay about 3800 at the minute. the fee for anyone outside continent is 120000

[Apjp]

Im not even talking about eirigi etc.
No one really gives a hoot about them, its not like they will ever have any say in my life.

What I mean is, say if there were protests every day from now on.
No fighting or 'rioting' but still there will always be plenty of people to put them down, call them gobsh!tes and telling them they are wasting their time.

The reactions and coverage of today and Monday only reinforces the idea that if you try and stand up, there will be plenty of your own people lined up to have a go.

I'm not SWP, eirigi, Lab, FG ,FF, anyone.
Im not that thick but what I do know is if I was to do anything in the morning, even trough a bloody bucket of water over a minister.
Rte and the rest would still find some way of turning me into some sort of gurrier.
I would get condemned for my use of serious violence and be shown as some sort of bad egg and FF could carry on into the sunset.

There was some small pockets of one group or another involved today. But they were all students, student from all corners of the country.
I suspect most families don't have that kind of money at least not for more then one of their children and don't forget there are plenty of independent mature out there that won't be able to afford this. And they are now being told they have to take it in the neck because of badly managed education and of course the banks. They have every right to what they can to stop it.

You are right. I just dislike what eirigi and the swp do-they do hijack protests and then get publicity and the 40000 students or so get none for actually peacefully protesting. all over shadowed. But I get your points, and accept them totally. The indo is way too biased nowadays. stopped reading it a while back.

[Apjp]

Your story is changing.

Earlier it was some students were drinking, with an eirigi crowd mentioned later. Guilt by association if you like.
Now it was a fella with an eirigi flag, an eirigi t-shirt no less and drinking.

If you believe what RTE are reporting I'm at a loss for words tbh.

Whats the waffle then about 'eirigi bastards' ???
Did one of them steal your girl or what ?

All in all if you were there I'd hazard a guess you were on duty

Todays evening herald, the Irish times and the USI. That is enough for me. sure the photo of minehan sold it! and the fact i heard what i heard. no revisionism please.

[5intheface]

Todays evening herald, the Irish times and the USI. That is enough for me. sure the photo of minehan sold it! and the fact i heard what i heard. no revisionism please.

I genuinely wish you could see how niaive that statement is.

First you must recognise your enemy. Cissero.

[Seán Ryan]

I'm wondering how it was that the protest was hijacked. Did it fail to occur? Did it fail to get publicity.

The idiot student president was on the radio for an hour and a half today, and he spent most of it whinging rather than getting to the point. Surely his visit to the radio station was facilitated by the protest that actually happened and by the worldwide publicity from the very same hyper-real event? Or perchance was it because he's a useful tool?

"Hijacked." :) Would nobody at all have heard about it if it hadn't been 'hijacked?'

Maybe someone's suggesting that the demo was hijacked and flown into the twin towers of the State and that we'll soon be openly at war with the "terrorists?"

Go back indoors folks, order some fast food, and watch tv. The kids are being beaten for their own and your good. Everything's going to be okay...

[Apjp]

A couple of things raised here that need to be challenged I think. Eirigí and others in the left-bloc are generally disciplined and political: they're not there for a piss-up or a ruck, they're there to make their point heard, using direct action to raise publicity (which is a valid tactic). Secondly, there are no signs of anything in the pictures I've seen, or the accounts I've read and heard, to suggest that students were involved in any violence until the bullys in blue stepped in with their batons. Finally, this assumption that the protest was hijacked; between them, the SWS (SWP students), Eirigí and the WSM wouldn't be able to mobilise more than 80-90 between them from their groups alone across the State, and there were hundreds of students involved in the sit down protests. It's clear to me that there were if not a majority of ordinary students, at least a substantial number of them involved in the breakaway protests.

You are right about the numbers. A maynooth group, and a ucd and tcd political group(could be an swp or eirigi branch-was a party anyways) mobilised students. times says it was mainly these two, and some SF-but I do bear in mind the times is very anti-raucus as they see it. However, Eirigi worry me. SWP, maybe not as much.

[C. Flower]

This is the Online issue of University Times Special edition.
http://issuu.com/universitytimes/docs/protest_special

From reading it I gather that the USI leadership contacted the Gardai before the demonstration and told them that they expected trouble from Republicans / the Left Bloc.

There are a lot of varied descriptions of the events at Merrion Street/ the DoF in it - from different
points of view. None of them suggests that there was any serious violence against Gardai.

Consistently they say that students were batoned and injured, some seriously.

[5intheface]

You are right about the numbers. A maynooth group, and a ucd and tcd political group(could be an swp or eirigi branch-was a party anyways) mobilised students. times says it was mainly these two, and some SF-but I do bear in mind the times is very anti-raucus as they see it. However, Eirigi worry me. SWP, maybe not as much.

AJ, try drawing a diagram; On one side put the actual things Éirigi have done on you and on the other, jot down how this Government and the complicit media have treated you.

[Apjp]

AJ, try drawing a diagram; On one side put the actual things Éirigi have done on you and on the other, jot down how this Government and the complicit media have treated you.

You are right that they have done nothing to me. However, I am just against the banner of Eirigi being in the news after every major protest-last june it was the dail gate scene, now this. I watched the video, and the Gardai overeacted, but there are better ways to handle things than storming dept's and taking the students day from us..moreover it was a day when the objective was overshadowed by the subjective. The Gardai and eirigi are equally to blame. They both go looking for trouble. And my despising of the govt and large parts of the media remains ever present, thanks. :)

[C. Flower]

YouTube - Merrion Row Clashes - Dublin November 3rd 2010 HD

[Dr. FIVE]

The woman didn't identify herself and claimed international experience.

The retired Gard also talked about "anarchist" danger.

Hmm.


Nor did she bother to mention who's flag they were after all and why she randomly just pulled over to ask them questions about the national debt even though she apparently knew the answer anyway

Hmm indeed

[C. Flower]

YouTube - Merrion Row Clashes - Dublin November 3rd 2010 HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPnoAY1wXfI&feature=player_embedded)

This youtube I think was produced by RT and is of professional quality. Worth watching.

[Design for Life]

Agreed. There should be an i.d. number on all the riot gear so that those being over zealous in the administration of their duties are plainly identifiable.

I remember the May Day assaults from 2002 like it was yesterday. Even when the police are identifiable there's no justice done if they use excess force and inflict serious injury on people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HECMVdl-9SQ


Something is bound to happen. It's very well and good trying to go from incident to incident blaming it on "far left" groups but what'll the response be when grandmothers are being beaten about the neck, face and head outside the parliament?

[ThomasB]

Its pointless to protest when you don't work together !!!! Where were all these people when the country was been sold down the river ???? :mad::mad:

It appears Ireland has fallen prey to SELF INTEREST..... If it doesnt affect me I DON'T CARE :eek:

Why not try something really radicle and let all SELF INTEREST groups WORK TOGETHER !!!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[jinnyjoe]

This youtube I think was produced by RT and is of professional quality. Worth watching.

Watched this in full Cactus and found it very disturbing, this is what our "protectors" have come to. Disgusting behaviour, bullies and thugs the lot of them. I'm not ashamed to say I cried with despair during it. What are the newspapers saying, I'm afraid I don't buy them anymore (lack of funds).

[C. Flower]

Watched this in full Cactus and found it very disturbing, this is what our "protectors" have come to. Disgusting behaviour, bullies and thugs the lot of them. I'm not ashamed to say I cried with despair during it. What are the newspapers saying, I'm afraid I don't buy them anymore (lack of funds).

I get the impression that the Gardai are an uneven bunch of people but that there is nothing to restrain people in uniform who run amock in a demonstration. Also they seem to have been trained in dangerous and life threatening techniques. I would like to know who trains them.

Did you notice that a Guard said to a passer by "this is a riot" while the students were walking away from them, chanting "peaceful protest" ? A riot was wanted, by the looks of it. The worse they got seems to have been eggs and in one case a vodka bottle thrown.

The force will always do what they are ordered to do.

[Dr. FIVE]

That video on Broadsheet is grim.
FF Vs. Your Children

Still can believe Im looking at Irish police in all that gear.
Clattering people over the head the head for sitting on the ground.
Seen that alright, with the mother with her daughter trying to get through and she is told there is a 'riot' going on ???
Guess we know who will be avoiding the cuts..

[Seán Ryan]

This idea that there's a few rotten apples, the riot squad, is doing the rounds, again.

Imagine a hundred gardaí standing behind me, looking on and doing nothing, as I beat the living crap out of a person on the ground with a big stick. What's wrong with that picture?

The riot squad broke the law in front of their uniformed accomplices and the only action that came from their accomplices was participation.

An garda síochána are a disgrace and it's not down to rotten apples. It's down to scum.

[Sidewinder]

Yeah like every other institution in this failed statelet the Gardaí are utterly rotten and corrupt. Having seen Garda corruption, croneyism and brutality in Donegal up close and personal I'm only surprised that most people seem to be surprised.

Moronic greedy grasping pigmen thugs with their snouts in the trough - the job of the Gardaí is to keep the little people bet down, they aren't "police", they are just enforcers for the gombeenocracy.

People need to stop clinging to these silly comfort blankies and confront the ugly harsh truth of just how degenerate the gombeen statelet is. You have more than enough evidence now, yet still I constantly hear childlike bleating - "but our betters wouldn't do that, they look after us"

[Slim Buddha]

Yeah like every other institution in this failed statelet the Gardaí are utterly rotten and corrupt. Having seen Garda corruption, croneyism and brutality in Donegal up close and personal I'm only surprised that most people seem to be surprised.

Moronic greedy grasping pigmen thugs with their snouts in the trough - the job of the Gardaí is to keep the little people bet down, they aren't "police", they are just enforcers for the gombeenocracy.

People need to stop clinging to these silly comfort blankies and confront the ugly harsh truth of just how degenerate the gombeen statelet is. You have more than enough evidence now, yet still I constantly hear childlike bleating - "but our betters wouldn't do that, they look after us"

I said it before Sidewinder, I just HATE it when you sit on the fence!!!

[C. Flower]

The Independent reports on police violence today, but adds in a new allegation that "bricks were thrown." This is the first time I've heard this. Can anyone give confirmation ? Any photographs?

Some students are still clearly unaware of what happened in Merrion Street and still believe the USI leadership line.

There are some excellent photographs along with the report.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget/news/peaceful-protest-turned-to-violence-in-an-instant-2406941.html

[BrendanGalway]

Good article by Gene Kerrigan in the Indo on this very matter.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/gene-kerrigan-the-charge-of-the-notsolight-brigade-2410879.html

Best Line :



But someone needs to take a very serious look at the overall strategy that day, and the policing tactics.

The Government won't do it. Labour and Fine Gael stay quiet, aware that within months they may be deploying the same squads.


Seems all to plausible Im afraid.....

[antiestablishmentarian]

The next steps in the campaign against registration fee hikes are as follows, the protest on Wednesday next against Garda brutality in Dublin and then the USI demonstration on the 17th in Galway- I wouldn't be surprised if the USI use the events of last Wednesday as an excuse for calling off the planned action in Galway, their president intimated as much on LiveLine on Thursday when he said they didn't want members to be injured on protests, which is effectively admitting that the guards are the greatest danger to any protestors at the moment and is also an admission of defeat, calling it off would be to let the Gardaí and FF win by being intimidated out of opposing it. If we want to win, we can;t let them intimidate us into giving up.

The president of the USI said in the papers that they were going to have a meeting tomorrow with the Guards top-brass to discuss whether the policing tactics used last week were 'excessive'. There was a good piece on this tucked away in page 10 of todays Times where one student recounted being set upon and beaten by the riot cops when he was walking back to the bus- he was badly smashed up I must say, he needed stitches after what they did to him.

[Lifeisagame]

Was Anything achieved as a result of this Protest?
If so, please outline categorically what it was and if you cannot, then we wasted ore Tax Payers money. Sorry but reality is what we need not aspirations.

[antiestablishmentarian]

Was Anything achieved as a result of this Protest?
If so, please outline categorically what it was and if you cannot, then we wasted ore Tax Payers money. Sorry but reality is what we need not aspirations.

One protest won't change anything, a sustained campaign is needed to defeat the hiking of registration fees. What this protest did achieve was to show the potential strength students have when mobilised and that if a fighting USI leadership existed they'd have backing and a clear mandate for a campaign of mass protests.

As for wasting tax payers money, it seems to me that the Gardaí were the only ones who 'wasted tax-payers money' by deploying heavy handed tactics and bully boy riot squads when they had no need to, not those who went on the protest. It's strange logic you have there, most protests against the status quo can be written off as 'a waste of tax payers money' when they don't get the government to change tack, does that mean people shouldn't go to such protests??

[C. Flower]

The next steps in the campaign against registration fee hikes are as follows, the protest on Wednesday next against Garda brutality in Dublin and then the USI demonstration on the 17th in Galway- I wouldn't be surprised if the USI use the events of last Wednesday as an excuse for calling off the planned action in Galway, their president intimated as much on LiveLine on Thursday when he said they didn't want members to be injured on protests, which is effectively admitting that the guards are the greatest danger to any protestors at the moment and is also an admission of defeat, calling it off would be to let the Gardaí and FF win by being intimidated out of opposing it. If we want to win, we can;t let them intimidate us into giving up.

The president of the USI said in the papers that they were going to have a meeting tomorrow with the Guards top-brass to discuss whether the policing tactics used last week were 'excessive'. There was a good piece on this tucked away in page 10 of todays Times where one student recounted being set upon and beaten by the riot cops when he was walking back to the bus- he was badly smashed up I must say, he needed stitches after what they did to him.

Was that the Sunday Times - is there a link ?

Anti - E - who are these people in the USI leadership ? Do they belong to a political party ?

If they were leading a Union I was in there would be a branch meeting called and motion of no confidence down before the next day is over.

[Lifeisagame]

One protest won't change anything, a sustained campaign is needed to defeat the hiking of registration fees. What this protest did achieve was to show the potential strength students have when mobilised and that if a fighting USI leadership existed they'd have backing and a clear mandate for a campaign of mass protests.

As for wasting tax payers money, it seems to me that the Gardaí were the only ones who 'wasted tax-payers money' by deploying heavy handed tactics and bully boy riot squads when they had no need to, not those who went on the protest. It's strange logic you have there, most protests against the status quo can be written off as 'a waste of tax payers money' when they don't get the government to change tack, does that mean people shouldn't go to such protests??
Please tell me what they Actually achieved other than they have now established in their minds that the Gardai are the enemy. What a Super Result. Ehh the Gardai do not set financial budgets for the country, so this Thread has no place for the financial realities of the people of Ireland, is this true and if not prove it.

[Sidewinder]

Please tell me what they Actually achieved other than they have now established in their minds that the Gardai are the enemy. What a Super Result. Ehh the Gardai do not set financial budgets for the country, so this Thread has no place for the financial realities of the people of Ireland, is this true and if not prove it.

The rotten Gardaí are the enemy. They are the enemy of every good decent hardworking citizen. They are goons, thugs in uniform, their entire purpose in life is as enforcers for the corrupt elite. They are no "police", they are a vigilante gang who use force and the threat of imprisonment on trumped-up charges to suppress any dissent to the ruling cabal of thieves.

You really need to cop on to the reality of how this country operates, and fast.

[antiestablishmentarian]

[QUOTE]Was that the Sunday Times - is there a link ?
Yeah, afraid there's no link but it was in todays hard copy.


Anti - E - who are these people in the USI leadership ? Do they belong to a political party ?

I don't know about the political affiliations of any of the current USI leadership so I'm basing my impressions off experience of working as a class-rep and FEE activist in the last fees controversy in 2008-2009, and their political statements have been rotten so far, the president has made several statements since the protest on Wednesday condemning the 'Left Bloc' for starting trouble and their political statement calling students out was along the lines of 'don't hike fees cos then there'll be fewer graduates to pay tax to pay off the national debt'.


If they were leading a Union I was in there would be a branch meeting called and motion of no confidence down before the next day is over.
A
h Cactus, you don't understand the way these things work at the moment, the different SU's work through class-reps councils which are generally packed out with SU hangers-on and lackeys and it's impossible to get anything valuable done through them anymore. If anything real is going to be built it'll have to be organised independently by students themselves instead of one or two token protests the USI routinely do.

[Lifeisagame]

The rotten Gardaí are the enemy. They are the enemy of every good decent hardworking citizen. They are goons, thugs in uniform, their entire purpose in life is as enforcers for the corrupt elite. They are no "police", they are a vigilante gang who use force and the threat of imprisonment on trumped-up charges to suppress any dissent to the ruling cabal of thieves.

You really need to cop on to the reality of how this country operates, and fast.
Sidewinder
I know more about the reality of this country than most. Trust me, in the order of issues the Gardai are of the least interest to me for the re-building of a Nation and you know that.

[antiestablishmentarian]

Please tell me what they Actually achieved other than they have now established in their minds that the Gardai are the enemy. What a Super Result. Ehh the Gardai do not set financial budgets for the country, so this Thread has no place for the financial realities of the people of Ireland, is this true and if not prove it.

The gardaí don't set the budget, but they exist to enforce the provisions of the budget through putting down opposition, where such actions are necessary to enforce it.

[Lifeisagame]

The gardaí don't set the budget, but they exist to enforce the provisions of the budget through putting down opposition, where such actions are necessary to enforce it.
Where in the order of the top 100 issues does that put them?
You voted for a Politician in a Democratic election where there has never been any hint of corruption. Therefore, the choice of the people was wrong so we blame the Gardai?
Just exactly do you want to happen when you demonstrate? Let us take the Gardai away totally and there is no body of law to stop you, what exactly would have happened and will happen if it is done in the future.
Personally I would just ensure all desks are clear, send everyone home including security/Gardai and unlock the door. Now what do you want to do????????

[C. Flower]

Where in the order of the top 100 issues does that put them?
You voted for a Politician in a Democratic election where there has never been any hint of corruption. Therefore, the choice of the people was wrong so we blame the Gardai?
Just exactly do you want to happen when you demonstrate? Let us take the Gardai away totally and there is no body of law to stop you, what exactly would have happened and will happen if it is done in the future.
Personally I would just ensure all desks are clear, send everyone home including security/Gardai and unlock the door. Now what do you want to do????????

Which election was this ? Most of the demonstrators have never had the opportunity of voting in an election and the current Government has been prepared to hold off elections at all costs in an appalling abuse of the Constitution (according to the Courts). It's the absence of democracy and the very high levels of corruption that provide the background to the demonstration.

The young people who entered the Department of Finance carried out a symbolic occupation only and sat down in the lobby, just inside the door. When they did that, there were no Gardai there, so that answers one of your questions.

A lot of people thought the demonstrators should have taken the opportunity, particularly if there were any economics and business students there, to draw up the 4 year plan and the budget as the D of F staff are clearly not able to (or not allowed to) write them.

[disability student]

I never voted for a student union despite a student in 3rd level education. I have no time for them as they don't discuss it re disability issues or have a rep for disability. Most of them haven't a foggiest clue. I told them last year the pressing need for 'real' disability' rep as they would be proactive and knowledgeable about various disability issues. They never forward with that one. :(

Have you ever seen any wheelchair or blind or deaf student in a student demostration like this one?

As you can see in many universities there is no disability rep as they DON'T speak for us - students with disabilities (not in my name). Some disability offices get away with it re their short comings as they only IN for the money.

[Sidewinder]

Where in the order of the top 100 issues does that put them?
You voted for a Politician in a Democratic election where there has never been any hint of corruption. Therefore, the choice of the people was wrong so we blame the Gardai?
Just exactly do you want to happen when you demonstrate? Let us take the Gardai away totally and there is no body of law to stop you, what exactly would have happened and will happen if it is done in the future.
Personally I would just ensure all desks are clear, send everyone home including security/Gardai and unlock the door. Now what do you want to do????????

:confused:

You are becoming increasingly incoherent. I'm not sure if you even know yourself what point you are trying to make any more.

Corruption has been rampant in Ireland for decades now. The Gardaí have singularly failed to tackle the corruption in any way. They prefer to get their jollies beating up kids and jailing the innocent on false charges, in Dublin and Westport and Donegal. This is not a "police" service in any meaningful sense of the term.

If you want to live in a laa-laa-land and claim a) there is no evidence of corruption in Ireland, and b) that the gardaí have a track record of being honest, clean and professional, diligently putting away criminals of the white collar variety, and protecting the populace from abuses of power, then go right ahead, but just realise you will then have absolutely zero credibility.

[Lifeisagame]

Which election was this ? Most of the demonstrators have never had the opportunity of voting in an election and the current Government has been prepared to hold off elections at all costs in an appalling abuse of the Constitution (according to the Courts). It's the absence of democracy and the very high levels of corruption that provide the background to the demonstration.

The young people who entered the Department of Finance carried out a symbolic occupation only and sat down in the lobby, just inside the door. When they did that, there were no Gardai there, so that answers one of your questions.

A lot of people thought the demonstrators should have taken the opportunity, particularly if there were any economics and business students there, to draw up the 4 year plan and the budget as the D of F staff are clearly not able to (or not allowed to) write them.
I will answer your Post as I believe it covers most issues, other than Sidewinders's that I am becoming incoherent.
The Third Level students of this country have always been the the first to really protest. For this I congratulate them and urge them to continue as they are the future.
However, I sadly believe that their protests will be futile. This Country is a mess, I believe we all agree there, but while I urge them to protest , they must do so with a future in mind. Gardai are actually not relevant in the Protests, I can almost hear the abuse already, what is most relevant is your goal. We as a country are like a boat with no rudder, we need direction. The young people are the future and while they may demonstrate, they must also think of the future. I am the older generation and I will honestly, as I always have done, try to help in my own way. I am a Businessman not a Politician. I am also an exporter and believe that is where I can help most.
Remember life must continue and the weak must be protected. My generation carry the responsibility for Politics in Ireland now. The young are left to clean our mess. What can I say, sorry is nothing to the suffering people. We blew it

[Lifeisagame]

:confused:

You are becoming increasingly incoherent. I'm not sure if you even know yourself what point you are trying to make any more.

Corruption has been rampant in Ireland for decades now. The Gardaí have singularly failed to tackle the corruption in any way. They prefer to get their jollies beating up kids and jailing the innocent on false charges, in Dublin and Westport and Donegal. This is not a "police" service in any meaningful sense of the term.

If you want to live in a laa-laa-land and claim a) there is no evidence of corruption in Ireland, and b) that the gardaí have a track record of being honest, clean and professional, diligently putting away criminals of the white collar variety, and protecting the populace from abuses of power, then go right ahead, but just realise you will then have absolutely zero credibility.
Hi
The real corruption charges are being delayed by Government.

[Lifeisagame]

I never voted for a student union despite a student in 3rd level education. I have no time for them as they don't discuss it re disability issues or have a rep for disability. Most of them haven't a foggiest clue. I told them last year the pressing need for 'real' disability' rep as they would be proactive and knowledgeable about various disability issues. They never forward with that one. :(

Have you ever seen any wheelchair or blind or dead student in a student demostration like this one?

As you can see in many universities there is no disability rep as they DON'T speak for us - students with disabilities (not in my name). Some disability offices get away with it re their short comings as they only IN for the money.
Saw your name many many times, never got that view from you. Will talk here soon about it as it will be lost now.

[C. Flower]

RTE Nine O'Clock news carried a good compilation of footage of Garda violence against the students and reported that there have been 28 complaints so far to the Garda Ombudsman.

RTE made the point that youtubes of the events had been watched more than 80,000 times. As I said earlier on this thread, it's no longer feasible to keep the truth about these events hidden, so long as open media exist.

[matt]

RTE Nine O'Clock news carried a good compilation of footage of Garda violence against the students and reported that there have been 28 complaints so far to the Garda Ombudsman.

RTE made the point that youtubes of the events had been watched more than 80,000 times. As I said earlier on this thread, it's no longer feasible to keep the truth about these events hidden, so long as open media exist.

There was a longer one on the earlier 6-1; where worse beatings by the Gardaí were shown. Coupled with the high-profile cases of recent weeks, and other matters highlighted here, the credibility of the force is severely in question (it always was, as far as I'm concerned; but as you say - modern technology has lit up the situation.)

What were the precise remarks made by a senior Gardaí a couple of months back - to the effect that there was severe corruption & political influence in the force. His remarks were decried as sedition or subversive by, I think, Dermot Ahern in the Dáil.
Wonder where the individual concerned is now...

[C. Flower]

Yeah, what I see in DIT's new president is a man who is more concerned about what suit he wears than real issues. Last year's vice president had some great simple ideas, and some simple plans to make life easier on all of us, but he lost the election on 17 votes. I voted for him, but now that he is gone there is no one i would vote for-and i would not want the job ever. It is one where people just sit on their hands for a year and looks great on the cv. I think a thread should be set up on students unions, and the lack of representation and adherence within them to expose these problems further-my computer will not let me, so perhaps one of you can start one with this post?

You should be able to start a thread apjp - are you sure that you can't ??

[Seán Ryan]

The problem is not so much people becoming aware that the gardaí are collectively a bunch of thugs, as it is one of them giving a damn.

The violence used on the students is but an example in the long history of garda thuggery. This is nothing new.

If folks don't give a damn about this level of thuggery what hope is there in getting them to examine and care about the more subtle (subtle as a kick in the face that is) ways that the gardaí act to limit and shut down dissent? See my blog for a minute set of examples - I name names and print pictures, and no gobshyte will contact me to allege defamation, because the video and audio proof is irrefutable.

Youtube's great, but we're a week on and we're still listening to "far left" and other such nonsense and that the gardaí "might" have issues. You're not allowed to go onto the street and speak your mind to your fellow human beings. I really cannot conceive of a more blatant wake up call. But the bed is cozy, despite there being no breakfast, work or school.

[Apjp]

I will answer your Post as I believe it covers most issues, other than Sidewinders's that I am becoming incoherent.
The Third Level students of this country have always been the the first to really protest. For this I congratulate them and urge them to continue as they are the future.
However, I sadly believe that their protests will be futile. This Country is a mess, I believe we all agree there, but while I urge them to protest , they must do so with a future in mind. Gardai are actually not relevant in the Protests, I can almost hear the abuse already, what is most relevant is your goal. We as a country are like a boat with no rudder, we need direction. The young people are the future and while they may demonstrate, they must also think of the future. I am the older generation and I will honestly, as I always have done, try to help in my own way. I am a Businessman not a Politician. I am also an exporter and believe that is where I can help most.
Remember life must continue and the weak must be protected. My generation carry the responsibility for Politics in Ireland now. The young are left to clean our mess. What can I say, sorry is nothing to the suffering people. We blew it

Thanks for the compassion, but if a Garda beats you over the head with a metal rod I am guessing they do come into it-especially when this is unprovoked. Let's face it, students were not exactly throwing petrol bombs or attacking the gardai. Just sitting down in the department of finance and on the closed off road. what is illegal about that?

[C. Flower]

The problem is not so much people becoming aware that the gardaí are collectively a bunch of thugs, as it is one of them giving a damn.

The violence used on the students is but an example in the long history of garda thuggery. This is nothing new.

If folks don't give a damn about this level of thuggery what hope is there in getting them to examine and care about the more subtle (subtle as a kick in the face that is) ways that the gardaí act to limit and shut down dissent? See my blog for a minute set of examples - I name names and print pictures, and no gobshyte will contact me to allege defamation, because the video and audio proof is irrefutable.

Youtube's great, but we're a week on and we're still listening to "far left" and other such nonsense and that the gardaí "might" have issues. You're not allowed to go onto the street and speak your mind to your fellow human beings. I really cannot conceive of a more blatant wake up call. But the bed is cozy, despite there being no breakfast, work or school.

There is a demonstration called for tomorrow evening. I wouldn't expect a massive turnout, given the time, but they are right to call it.

I've been all week on twitter and elsewhere arguing with journalists about this. At least RTE did show some of what happened tonight. Minds have been changed about this.

[Apjp]

RTE Nine O'Clock news carried a good compilation of footage of Garda violence against the students and reported that there have been 28 complaints so far to the Garda Ombudsman.

RTE made the point that youtubes of the events had been watched more than 80,000 times. As I said earlier on this thread, it's no longer feasible to keep the truth about these events hidden, so long as open media exist.

yet, unlike other countries with papers from all sides of the political spectrum, no newspaper carried coverage of gardai beating the ***** out of people. and since when is sitting in a lobby..storming a department-you'd swear us students had declared civil war!!!

[Apjp]

There was a longer one on the earlier 6-1; where worse beatings by the Gardaí were shown. Coupled with the high-profile cases of recent weeks, and other matters highlighted here, the credibility of the force is severely in question (it always was, as far as I'm concerned; but as you say - modern technology has lit up the situation.)

What were the precise remarks made by a senior Gardaí a couple of months back - to the effect that there was severe corruption & political influence in the force. His remarks were decried as sedition or subversive by, I think, Dermot Ahern in the Dáil.
Wonder where the individual concerned is now...

dole queue or on the next plane out of here like so many in all likelihood. wouldn't be the 1st time the state fired someone wrongfully.

[Apjp]

You should be able to start a thread apjp - are you sure that you can't ??

old computer, sorry!

[Apjp]

The problem is not so much people becoming aware that the gardaí are collectively a bunch of thugs, as it is one of them giving a damn.

The violence used on the students is but an example in the long history of garda thuggery. This is nothing new.

If folks don't give a damn about this level of thuggery what hope is there in getting them to examine and care about the more subtle (subtle as a kick in the face that is) ways that the gardaí act to limit and shut down dissent? See my blog for a minute set of examples - I name names and print pictures, and no gobshyte will contact me to allege defamation, because the video and audio proof is irrefutable.

Youtube's great, but we're a week on and we're still listening to "far left" and other such nonsense and that the gardaí "might" have issues. You're not allowed to go onto the street and speak your mind to your fellow human beings. I really cannot conceive of a more blatant wake up call. But the bed is cozy, despite there being no breakfast, work or school.

you sum it all up really..albeit more tongue in cheek than i would. :)

[Apjp]

There is a demonstration called for tomorrow evening. I wouldn't expect a massive turnout, given the time, but they are right to call it.

I've been all week on twitter and elsewhere arguing with journalists about this. At least RTE did show some of what happened tonight. Minds have been changed about this.

Ask yourself why RTE waited so long to report it? It is old news. As a writer, the first thing I was told is old news is told news! They know it got minimum audience from a cynical and divided public.

[musashi]

I was on that march.
Watching riot police batter our young-uns as they sat on the tarmac stretched my tolerance - had to remind myself that lashing out would only compound things.

[antiestablishmentarian]

Just a quick question about RTÉ and their coverage last night: why? What did RTÉ have to gain from showing this footage a week later, that's only going to make the incident rankle even more with people, unless there's something going on in there we don't know about.

[C. Flower]

Just a quick question about RTÉ and their coverage last night: why? What did RTÉ have to gain from showing this footage a week later, that's only going to make the incident rankle even more with people, unless there's something going on in there we don't know about.

The report was about the 28 complaints to the Garda commissioner.

I think

- credit to those in RTE who put it together and showed it.

- there has been a lot of pressure on journalists since the events to tell the truth

- the students are the children of the middle classes. There is shock at what happened. It is a sign of what the middle classes (non "connected") can expect -in the budget and in general. People feel that in their bones.

[C. Flower]

There's a demonstration on tonight against the police violence. Do you want to put the time and place up again ?

[antiestablishmentarian]

There's a demonstration on tonight against the police violence. Do you want to put the time and place up again ?

Yeah, it's on at 6 o clock this evening in Merrion Square, marching from there to Pearse St. Garda Station.