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antiestablishmentarian
19-09-2010, 06:51 PM
Interesting article here (here) from a North Korean defectors website: the Rodong Sinmun, daily media organ of the régime has praised the economic reforms of Deng Xiaoping in China which were essentially a loosening up of aspects of the chinese economy through things like the removal of price controls and the shutting of some state enterprises. This is the first time that these measures have been praised by the North and given the transitionary stage which the DPRK is undergoing at the moment (the DPRK is currently in the middle of a succession from the leadership of Kim Jong-Il and the transfer of power to his son and his sons supporters) may perhaps be indicative of coming economic change in the Hermit Kingdom.

C. Flower
17-11-2011, 04:40 PM
Fareed Zakaria of CNN did a piece on North Koreas this week
asking if an uprising could occur there?
According to Fareed Zakaria on CNN
the north koreas do not want there gguest workers back form North Africa
after what they witnessed!!!

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnns-fareed-zakaria/

I'm deeply sceptical of anything written about North Korea, and indeed Korea as a whole. Their undefended cities were wiped out from the air in WW2 and they certainly didn't get a Marshall Plan. How much has been said about that?

Kev Bar
19-12-2011, 01:17 PM
Jesus - only someone brought up reading Pravda could wade through the prose in that anti link.

riposte
19-12-2011, 01:44 PM
I'm deeply sceptical of anything written about North Korea, and indeed Korea as a whole. Their undefended cities were wiped out from the air in WW2 and they certainly didn't get a Marshall Plan. How much has been said about that?

Good point CF ........... besides we are too busy stirring up trouble in Egypt, Syria, Russia, Iran, Libya and Iraq......... oops ....sorry..... we just finished stirring up trouble there.

Andrew49
19-12-2011, 02:06 PM
Perceptions of North Korea (http://blogs.reuters.com/photographers-blog/2008/02/29/perceptions-of-north-korea/) - by David Gray - currently based in Beijing, China, and responsible for coverage of general news and sports in Greater China.


But when we got to the next location, it provided me with my most distinct memory of the entire trip. We were taken to a subway station and ushered onto an 80-meter-long escalator, and while we were traveling down, coming up the other side were ordinary commuters. Their appearance to me was of complete helplessness, all passing slowly as if in a trance, heads bowed, staring blankly, faces unmoved. The best description is a factory conveyor-belt. The beautiful murals adorning the station seemed to become quite horrifying with their messages that all citizens exist to work for the state.

riposte
19-12-2011, 02:30 PM
Perceptions of North Korea (http://blogs.reuters.com/photographers-blog/2008/02/29/perceptions-of-north-korea/) - by David Gray - currently based in Beijing, China, and responsible for coverage of general news and sports in Greater China.

"But when we got to the next location, it provided me with my most distinct memory of the entire trip. We were taken to a subway station and ushered onto an 80-meter-long escalator, and while we were traveling down, coming up the other side were ordinary commuters. Their appearance to me was of complete helplessness, all passing slowly as if in a trance, heads bowed, staring blankly, faces unmoved. The best description is a factory conveyor-belt. The beautiful murals adorning the station seemed to become quite horrifying with their messages that all citizens exist to work for the state."

An 80-meter-long escalator ........... well fancy that ....... was it hand wound? ........ next somebody will admit .........that they have electricity in North Korea.

Kev Bar
19-12-2011, 05:38 PM
I'm deeply sceptical of anything written about North Korea, and indeed Korea as a whole. Their undefended cities were wiped out from the air in WW2 and they certainly didn't get a Marshall Plan. How much has been said about that?




To even talk about US assistance, or lack thereof, and North Korea in the same sentence is disengenuous.
One would hardly expect the US to aid a Soviet satellite with which it was at war within a few years.

The post war US assistance to South Korea was as follows:


Aid to Asia

From the end of the war to the end of 1953, the U.S. provided grants and credits amounting to $5.9 billion to Asian countries, especially China/Taiwan ($1.051 billion), India ($255 million), Indonesia ($215 million), Japan ($2.44 billion), South Korea ($894 million), Pakistan ($98 million) and the Philippines ($803 million). In addition, another $282 million went to Israel and $196 million to the rest of the Middle East.[87] All this aid was separate from the Marshall Plan.
[edit] Canada




An 80-meter-long escalator ........... well fancy that ....... was it hand wound? ........ next somebody will admit .........that they have electricity in North Korea.

Noted. But generally you find that the most effective propaganda exploits a given reality.
I know someone who recently got a visa. Was there for a few weeks and found the place to be a vast dictatorial criminal system seemingly devoid of any ideology. Not the more common kleptocracy but a genre of criminocracy.

TotalMayhem
19-12-2011, 06:02 PM
found the place to be a vast dictatorial criminal system seemingly devoid of any ideology. Not the more common kleptocracy but a genre of criminocracy.

Such righteous Commies there, sure they mean only well to their people? It's only dem evil Yanks denying them a brighter future. :D

Speaking of 'misleading' thread titles that need editing...

riposte
19-12-2011, 06:31 PM
Noted. But generally you find that the most effective propaganda exploits a given reality.
I know someone who recently got a visa. Was there for a few weeks and found the place to be a vast dictatorial criminal system seemingly devoid of any ideology. Not the more common kleptocracy but a genre of criminocracy.

Yeah Kev .......... but I was just looking at the Mourners in Pyongyang on RTE News.......... and they have clothes on.

Count Bobulescu
20-12-2011, 05:30 AM
The Kim’s economic legacy in one chart.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-economic-legacy-of-kim-jong-il/2011/12/19/gIQA4osP4O_blog.html
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-economic-legacy-of-kim-jong-il/2011/12/19/gIQA4osP4O_blog.html)
Night-time satellite photo of North Korea and its neighbors. Stunning!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/north-korea-in-the-dark/2011/08/25/gIQAKi2W4O_blog.html

TotalMayhem
20-12-2011, 12:32 PM
Series of photos to show you what communism does to people:

3.5 Million People Suffer From Severe Starvation in North Korea (http://www.peopleunlikeus.com/?p=5255)

Kev Bar
20-12-2011, 03:07 PM
Yeah Kev .......... but I was just looking at the Mourners in Pyongyang on RTE News.......... and they have clothes on.

Well if you look at the Sat pic the Count posted, it may be a case of wrapping up tight in the dark.

Count Bobulescu
22-12-2011, 08:17 PM
Henceforth, Kim Jong-un will be known as the “Outstanding Leader” and no mistake about it.

TotalMayhem
22-12-2011, 08:51 PM
Henceforth, Kim Jong-un will be known as the “Outstanding Leader” and no mistake about it.

If you put him amongst a bunch of children suffering from malnutrition, he'll stand out alright.

C. Flower
23-12-2011, 12:40 AM
To even talk about US assistance, or lack thereof, and North Korea in the same sentence is disengenuous.
One would hardly expect the US to aid a Soviet satellite with which it was at war within a few years.

The post war US assistance to South Korea was as follows:

Aid to Asia

From the end of the war to the end of 1953, the U.S. provided grants and credits amounting to $5.9 billion to Asian countries, especially China/Taiwan ($1.051 billion), India ($255 million), Indonesia ($215 million), Japan ($2.44 billion), South Korea ($894 million), Pakistan ($98 million) and the Philippines ($803 million). In addition, another $282 million went to Israel and $196 million to the rest of the Middle East.[87] All this aid was separate from the Marshall Plan.
[edit] Canada




Noted. But generally you find that the most effective propaganda exploits a given reality.
I know someone who recently got a visa. Was there for a few weeks and found the place to be a vast dictatorial criminal system seemingly devoid of any ideology. Not the more common kleptocracy but a genre of criminocracy.

You make my point for me. The North was devastated in the 1950s by air bombardment and under constant threat of nuclear attack by the US. Meanwhile, other states, favourably compared with N. Korea, were being boosted with billions of cash - with the objective of winning the "cold war."

You would think, to read this thread, that capitalist countries did not have famines - and of course they do, regularly.

Kev Bar
23-12-2011, 01:36 AM
Yeah.
And there is no excuse for any system to have a bloated military and a skeletal populace

Count Bobulescu
23-12-2011, 04:33 AM
NK discussion on Charlie Rose and Diane Rehm. Plus 10 minutes on CR about Iran/Iraq 80 minutes combined.

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12050
(http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12050)
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-12-20/north-korea-after-death-kim-jong-il

C. Flower
23-12-2011, 08:46 AM
Yeah.
And there is no excuse for any system to have a bloated military and a skeletal populace

It is a regime which I would be happy to see overthrown by the Korean people.

The end of the USSR threw countries that had been part of it or dependent on it into crisis. It would be a worthwhile exercise to tot up all the deaths that followed as a result, including those in Russia. Most of these economies are still only limping along. Georgia, once an exporter of food, is now more than 50% dependent on subsistence farming, with risk of malnutrition in the population.

TotalMayhem
23-12-2011, 10:53 AM
It is a regime which I would be happy to see overthrown

Fancy that for a "Wind of Change": Miss Flower wanting a communist regime overthrown. ;)


by the Korean people.

You don't seem to realise what the Korean people are up against: the second largest military machine (per capita) in the world (second only to the mighty power of Eritrea). And, in sharp contrast to the people of North Korea, they're quite well fed and looked after.

I'm afraid. their only hope for them is to be "liberated" by their brethren in the South and their American allies. A good old-fashioned boycott has no effect on drug dealers and counterfeiters.

C. Flower
23-12-2011, 11:23 AM
Fancy that for a "Wind of Change": Miss Flower wanting a communist regime overthrown. ;)

You don't seem to realise what the Korean people are up against: the second largest military machine (per capita) in the world (second only to the mighty power of Eritrea). And, in sharp contrast to the people of North Korea, they're quite well fed and looked after.

I'm afraid. their only hope for them is to be "liberated" by their brethren in the South and their American allies. A good old-fashioned boycott has no effect on drug dealers and counterfeiters.

The Russian army wasn't able to stop peaceful handover of their state to the World Bank.

Look at China. We were all being told that Tienamen Square was the end of protest in China, and now the country is awash with anti-corruption protests and strikes for higher pay. I was watching a youtube the other night of Chinese students burning out a police bus. All regimes are impregnable until they collapse.

And an invasion from the south certainly wouldn't be a liberation. Capitalist prosperity for all is simply not on offer.

TotalMayhem
23-12-2011, 11:49 AM
The Russian army wasn't able to stop peaceful handover of their state to the World Bank.

That is quite different from being "overthrown by the people", no?

C. Flower
23-12-2011, 12:31 PM
That is quite different from being "overthrown by the people", no?

Agreed, but my point is that having a large army does not mean that the large army can be used. Revolutions take place when people can't go on in the old way. When a system has become really non-viable and a popular alternative is offered, and backed by the majority of the population, a large army can't be relied on to save the thing.

TotalMayhem
23-12-2011, 12:44 PM
Agreed, but my point is that having a large army does not mean that the large army can be used. Revolutions take place when people can't go on in the old way. When a system has become really non-viable and a popular alternative is offered, and backed by the majority of the population, a large army can't be relied on to save the thing.

Most recent events seem to contradict this theory. Gaddafi wasn't removed by "de people" and in Egypt, the military's grip to power seems to be stronger than it ever was in the later years of Mubarak's reign.

C. Flower
23-12-2011, 01:00 PM
Most recent events seem to contradict this theory. Gaddafi wasn't removed by "de people" and in Egypt, the military's grip to power seems to be stronger than it ever was in the later years of Mubarak's reign.

In Libya, popular protests were quickly rolled over by NATO and the regime change machine. Some of the original protestors have since been arrested by militiamen.

The harder it is to stay in power the tighter a military regime will grip. In what way do you think the military stronger than when Mubarak was in power ?

Then there were no demonstrations because people were afraid to go out.

TotalMayhem
23-12-2011, 01:08 PM
In what way do you think the military stronger than when Mubarak was in power ?

For starters, they no longer show any restraint as they did back in the day. I'm sure, some of their military leaders saw in "Tahir Square" a superb opportunity to pursue their own agenda.

C. Flower
23-12-2011, 01:11 PM
For starters, they no longer show any restraint as they did back in the day. I'm sure, some of their military leaders saw in "Tahir Square" a superb opportunity to pursue their own agenda.

They didn't "show restraint." Demonstrations were illegal and people were too scared to go out and protest.

There was frantic wheeling and dealing in Tahrir Square and around it, and in particular the military started to build alliances with the MB. Not an opportunity, an attempt at adaptation.

After all, their Chief of Staff ended up being tried in a cage.

jmcc
23-12-2011, 01:51 PM
NK has just effectively become a rather interesting pawn and is going to to be courted by the Chinese and the West. The power structure will probably have to be maintained but there might be some subtle moves to shift it out of the Chinese orbit.

Regards...jmcc

antiestablishmentarian
24-12-2011, 03:45 PM
NK has just effectively become a rather interesting pawn and is going to to be courted by the Chinese and the West. The power structure will probably have to be maintained but there might be some subtle moves to shift it out of the Chinese orbit.

Regards...jmcc

That's already happening, just last week the North Koreans apparently agreed on principle to denuclearisation in return for food aid from the US, although talks were disrupted because of Kim's death before the nitty gritty had been worked out.


Last week, US officials were negotiating with North Korean officials over a plan that tentatively called for the US to send a substantial amount of food assistance to North Korea in monthly shipments of 20,000 tons. In return, Pyongyang would have agreed to suspend its uranium-enrichment program, reopen its Yongbyon nuclear facility to international nuclear inspectors, and suspend any further nuclear or missile tests.

It's still hard to see how they can effectively take North Korea out of the Chinese orbit as Chinese business is firmly ensconced in the resources trade in the mountains of North Korea, and the Northern borders are extremely porous.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Foreign-Policy/2011/1221/Did-Kim-Jong-il-death-ruin-breakthrough-deal-on-North-Korea-nukes

Kev Bar
24-12-2011, 04:00 PM
That's already happening, just last week the North Koreans apparently agreed on principle to denuclearisation in return for food aid from the US, although talks were disrupted because of Kim's death before the nitty gritty had been worked out.



It's still hard to see how they can effectively take North Korea out of the Chinese orbit as Chinese business is firmly ensconced in the resources trade in the mountains of North Korea, and the Northern borders are extremely porous.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Foreign-Policy/2011/1221/Did-Kim-Jong-il-death-ruin-breakthrough-deal-on-North-Korea-nukes

I can't imagine that "taking" them out of orbit is deemed a realistic objective. It looks like NK is going play a more dysfunctional Yugoslavia role - and try to get as much as possible out of both sides.
Hopefully the people will be fed.

antiestablishmentarian
24-12-2011, 04:09 PM
I can't imagine that "taking" them out of orbit is deemed a realistic objective. It looks like NK is going play a more dysfunctional Yugoslavia role - and try to get as much as possible out of both sides.
Hopefully the people will be fed.There is a precedent for this from the North Koreans. They put their nuclear programme on the table when Madeleine Albright visited in 2000, and they did suspend their programme until Bush reneged on it. The North Korean leadership see their nukes as a bargaining chip, a sword (in case of a future aggressive war aginst the South, an asymmetrical weapon to give them the edge over the more powerful South Korean conventional forces), a shield against invasion, and a badge of prestige for the regime. My hunch is they would give it up, as well as their long range ICBM programme, in return for security guarantees and aid. The regime is not crazy, and has its continued existence as its main goal, at present the chief threat to that is the economic crisis so alleviating that by sacrificing the nuclear weapons programme for food aid, spare parts and help for repairing their hydro-electric power plants, and a couple of light water reactors might be well received by the new government. For all the speculation about whether Kim Jong-Un might be accepted or not, it seems he already has been by the military, who are following his first orders to return to barracks, so he and his cabal are clearly calling the shots.

TotalMayhem
24-12-2011, 07:11 PM
The regime is not crazy

Criminally insane is what they are.

TotalMayhem
25-12-2011, 11:38 AM
Criminally insane is what they are.

North Korea has hit out at Seoul after South Korea announced it would only send two delegations of mourners to pay respects to Kim Jong-il, while the whole world is in mourning the loss of "a peerlessly great man".

Ah Well
18-01-2012, 02:14 AM
The blanket unravelling begins ...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/kfidauojmhid/rss2/

antiestablishmentarian
18-01-2012, 11:58 AM
The blanket unravelling begins ...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/kfidauojmhid/rss2/

Hmm, I wouldn't count my chickens yet Ah. Jong Nam is peeved that he wasn't appointed successor after a fiasco involving forged passports at Disneyland Tokyo back in 2001, and has been pretty estranged from his father for a couple of years (according to DailyNK his facebook contributions mostly consist of cartoons mocking his father and Jong-Un). Perhaps he does really believe what he said in that interview, but he has nothing to lose from it (unlikely Jong Un will do anything to him) and it leaves him politically free to intervene in the case of a crisis or some other event on the peninsula.

Count Bobulescu
28-01-2012, 03:06 PM
North Korea warns South on matters military, but takes its food aid anyway.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/28/world/asia/north-korea-warns-south-but-accepts-food-aid.html?_r=1&ref=world

SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/northkorea/index.html?scp=1-spot&sq=north%20korea&st=cse) warned on Friday that a South Korean military drill around frontline islands could lead to a “full-scale war,” even as it allowed South Korean trucks carrying private food aid (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/f/food_aid/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) for North Korean children to cross the border.

C. Flower
28-01-2012, 07:12 PM
North Korea warns South on matters military, but takes its food aid anyway.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/28/world/asia/north-korea-warns-south-but-accepts-food-aid.html?_r=1&ref=world

Damned if they take it, and damned if they don't. They have every right to defend their borders, surely ?

Count Bobulescu
28-01-2012, 11:52 PM
They have every right to defend their borders, surely ?
Good God! What an absolutely OUTRAGEOUS suggestion!


Seriously, history shows that North has transgressed on South much more than other way round.

Post-armistice infiltrations, incursions and incidents

Since the division of Korea, there have been numerous instances of infiltration and incursions across the border largely by North Korean agents, although the North Korean government never acknowledges direct responsibility for any of these incidents. A total of 3,693 armed North Korean agents have infiltrated into South Korea between 1954 to 1992, with 20% of these occurring between 1967 and 1968.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-14) According to the 5 January 2011 Korea Herald (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Herald), since July 1953 North Korea has violated the armistice 221 times, including 26 military attacks.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-15) Some instances include:



March 1990: The fourth North Korean infiltration tunnel was discovered, in what may be a total of 17 tunnels in all.
May 1992: Three North Korean infiltrators dressed in South Korean uniforms were killed at Cheorwon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheorwon), Gangwon-do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangwon-do_%28South_Korea%29). Three South Koreans were also wounded.
October 1995: Two North Korean infiltrators were intercepted at Imjin River (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imjin_River). One was killed, the other escaped.
April 1996: Several hundred North Korean armed troops entered the Joint Security Area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Security_Area) and elsewhere on three occasions in violation of the Korean armistice agreement.
May 1996: Seven North Korean soldiers crossed the DMZ but withdrew when fired upon by South Korean troops.
April 1997: Five North Korean soldiers cross the military demarcation line's Cheorwon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheorwon) sector and fired at South Korean positions.
July 1997: Fourteen North Korean soldiers crossed the military demarcation line, causing a 23-minute exchange of heavy gunfire.
May 2006 - Two North Korean soldiers enter the DMZ and cross into South Korea. They return after South fires warning shots.
October 2006 - South Korea fires warning shots after North Korean soldiers cross briefly into their side of the border.
23 November 2010: After a Northern warning to cease planned military drills near the island of Yeonpyeong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeonpyeong), the South commenced the drill. The North then bombarded the island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Yeonpyeong) with heavy artillery in response to the firings related to the South's readiness-exercise and the South returned fire with air force jets and howitzers. On Yeonpyeong, 4 were killed (including 2 civilians) and 15 injured.[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-17)

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Division_of_Korea&action=edit&section=13)] Incidents in other areas



June 1969: North Korean agent reached Huksan Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Huksan_Island&action=edit&redlink=1), resulting in 15 killed.
August 1975: Two North Korean infiltrators intercepted at Gochang County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gochang_County), Jeollabuk-do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeollabuk-do) kills one infiltrator, two South Korean soldiers and wounds another two South Korean soldiers.
November 1978: Three North Korean agents killed two South Korean civilians in Hongseong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongseong), one civilian in Gongju (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gongju), Chungcheongnam-do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chungcheongnam-do) and another civilian at Osan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osan), Gyeonggi-do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyeonggi-do).
November 1980: Three North Korean infiltrators and one South Korean civilian were killed at Whenggando (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Whenggando&action=edit&redlink=1), Jeollanam-do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeollanam-do). Six others were wounded.
December 1980: Three North Korean infiltrators and two South Korean soldiers were killed off the southern coast of Gyeongsangnam-do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyeongsangnam-do). Two other South Korean soldiers were wounded.
September 1984: A North Korean infiltrator killed two civilians and wounded another at Daegu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegu) before committing suicide.
October 1995: Two North Korean infiltrators were intercepted at Buyeo County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyeo_County). One was killed, the other captured.
17 September 1996: 26 North Korean military personnel landed on the east coast near Jeongdongjin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeongdongjin), 20 kilometres south-east of Gangneung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangneung), Gangwon-do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangwon-do_%28South_Korea%29) from a disabled North Korean submarine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Gangneung_submarine_infiltration_incident). Out of these, 11 were killed by North Korean commandos from the submarine presumably in a bid to save the rest. 13 were killed by South Korean soldiers as they tried to make their way back over the DMZ over the next 49 days, one was captured and one escaped. 13 South Korean soldiers and 4 civilians were killed,[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-18) and five others wounded, including an off-duty ROK soldier strangled by the escaping infiltrators. North Korea threatened to retaliate over the incident, and in October 1996, a South Korean diplomat, Choi Duk Keun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choe_Deok-geun), was found poisoned in Vladivostok (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladivostok) by a substance similar to that carried on the submarine. By 29 December, however, the North issued an official statement expressing "deep regret" over the submarine incident, although it did not issue a direct apology. In return, the South Korean government returned the cremated remains of the infiltrators to the North via Panmunjom on 30 December. The beached submarine remains at Jeongdongjin, where it has since been turned into an outdoor exhibit. Investigations in the South over the intrusion resulted in twenty ROK officers and soldiers punished for "negligence of duty" and the dismissal of a lieutenant general and a major general. A taxi driver who first spotted the intruders and alerted the authorities was given a hefty reward.[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-19)

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Division_of_Korea&action=edit&section=14)] Maritime incidents


May 1996: Five North Korean naval patrol craft entered South Korean waters in the west coast and withdrew after a four-hour confrontation with Southern forces. Another incident in June 1996 saw three North Korean naval patrol craft intruding for three-hours in the same area.
June 1997: Three North Korean patrol boats entered South Korean waters in the Yellow Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Sea), firing at South Korean patrol boats.
22 June 1998: A North Korean Yugo class submarine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugo_class_submarine) was found caught in fishing nets in South Korean waters 18 km off the coast from Sokcho (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokcho). South Korean fishermen observed the crew trying to untangle the submarine from the fishing nets and notified the South Korean navy. The submarine was subsequently towed by a South Korean corvette to a navy base near Sokcho. It was believed that 5 or 6 crewmen were alive inside and the South Koreans used loudspeakers to try to convince the crew to come out, but they received no response. When the submarine was eventually opened all nine crew were found dead in an apparent group suicide.[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-20) North Korea criticized the South for causing the death of the crew and demanded the return of the bodies and submarine on 27 June. South Korean President Kim Dae Jung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dae_Jung) asked for the North to "admit responsibility and take reasonable measures" in response.
June 1999: A nine-day confrontation was sparked when several North Korean ships intruded into disputed waters near the Northern Limit Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Limit_Line) in the Yellow Sea. A firefight erupted on 15 June 1999, sinking a North Korean torpedo boat and damaging five others. Two South Korean vessels were lightly damaged. North Korea issued a warning that violent exchanges would continue if the disputed waters were to continue being intruded by South Korea or the United States.
9 April 2001: North Korean patrol boats entered South Korean waters briefly over the Northern Limit Line but retreated when challenged by the South Korean Navy. Similar incidents were reported on February 5, March 3 and April 10. 12 maritime intrusions were reported in total in 2001.
5 January 2002: North Korean patrol boats continued to infiltrate into South Korean waters, with another craft spotted off Yeonpyeong Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeonpyeong_Island) in the Yellow Sea.
29 June 2002: North Korean patrol boats crossed the Northern Limit Line and fired at a South Korean patrol boat, provoking a firefight which killed four South Korean military personnel and an unknown number of North Koreans.
11 November 2009: North Korean patrol ship was set on fire after attacking a South Korean ship in the Yellow Sea.[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-21)
26 March 2010: The South Korean warship Cheonan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_%28PCC-772%29) sinks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_sinking), with 46 sailors dying. On 19 May 2010 an investigation said a North Korean submarine caused the sinking.[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-22)

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Division_of_Korea&action=edit&section=15)] Air incidents



19 February 2003: A North Korean fighter jet entered South Korean airspace over the Yellow Sea, the first since 1983. Six South Korean fighter planes responded, and the North Korean plane departed after two minutes.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]



17 June 2011: South Korean soldiers mistakenly fired on an Asiana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana) commercial airplane with small-arms fire; they believed it to be North Korea's military aircraft.[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-23)

Kev Bar
29-01-2012, 01:31 AM
A great doc telling the story of the Jong UN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxBLe9A2gXY&list=UU6bvUGnIEYfoFCvpuq0jruw&index=1&feature=plcp

Kev Bar
29-01-2012, 01:39 AM
Good God! What an absolutely OUTRAGEOUS suggestion!


Seriously, history shows that North has transgressed on South much more than other way round.

Post-armistice infiltrations, incursions and incidents

Since the division of Korea, there have been numerous instances of infiltration and incursions across the border largely by North Korean agents, although the North Korean government never acknowledges direct responsibility for any of these incidents. A total of 3,693 armed North Korean agents have infiltrated into South Korea between 1954 to 1992, with 20% of these occurring between 1967 and 1968.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-14) According to the 5 January 2011 Korea Herald (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Herald), since July 1953 North Korea has violated the armistice 221 times, including 26 military attacks.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-15) Some instances include:



March 1990: The fourth North Korean infiltration tunnel was discovered, in what may be a total of 17 tunnels in all.
May 1992: Three North Korean infiltrators dressed in South Korean uniforms were killed at Cheorwon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheorwon), Gangwon-do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangwon-do_%28South_Korea%29). Three South Koreans were also wounded.
October 1995: Two North Korean infiltrators were intercepted at Imjin River (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imjin_River). One was killed, the other escaped.
April 1996: Several hundred North Korean armed troops entered the Joint Security Area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Security_Area) and elsewhere on three occasions in violation of the Korean armistice agreement.
May 1996: Seven North Korean soldiers crossed the DMZ but withdrew when fired upon by South Korean troops.
April 1997: Five North Korean soldiers cross the military demarcation line's Cheorwon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheorwon) sector and fired at South Korean positions.
July 1997: Fourteen North Korean soldiers crossed the military demarcation line, causing a 23-minute exchange of heavy gunfire.
May 2006 - Two North Korean soldiers enter the DMZ and cross into South Korea. They return after South fires warning shots.
October 2006 - South Korea fires warning shots after North Korean soldiers cross briefly into their side of the border.
23 November 2010: After a Northern warning to cease planned military drills near the island of Yeonpyeong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeonpyeong), the South commenced the drill. The North then bombarded the island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Yeonpyeong) with heavy artillery in response to the firings related to the South's readiness-exercise and the South returned fire with air force jets and howitzers. On Yeonpyeong, 4 were killed (including 2 civilians) and 15 injured.[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-17)

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Division_of_Korea&action=edit&section=13)] Incidents in other areas



June 1969: North Korean agent reached Huksan Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Huksan_Island&action=edit&redlink=1), resulting in 15 killed.
August 1975: Two North Korean infiltrators intercepted at Gochang County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gochang_County), Jeollabuk-do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeollabuk-do) kills one infiltrator, two South Korean soldiers and wounds another two South Korean soldiers.
November 1978: Three North Korean agents killed two South Korean civilians in Hongseong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongseong), one civilian in Gongju (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gongju), Chungcheongnam-do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chungcheongnam-do) and another civilian at Osan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osan), Gyeonggi-do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyeonggi-do).
November 1980: Three North Korean infiltrators and one South Korean civilian were killed at Whenggando (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Whenggando&action=edit&redlink=1), Jeollanam-do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeollanam-do). Six others were wounded.
December 1980: Three North Korean infiltrators and two South Korean soldiers were killed off the southern coast of Gyeongsangnam-do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyeongsangnam-do). Two other South Korean soldiers were wounded.
September 1984: A North Korean infiltrator killed two civilians and wounded another at Daegu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegu) before committing suicide.
October 1995: Two North Korean infiltrators were intercepted at Buyeo County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyeo_County). One was killed, the other captured.
17 September 1996: 26 North Korean military personnel landed on the east coast near Jeongdongjin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeongdongjin), 20 kilometres south-east of Gangneung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangneung), Gangwon-do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangwon-do_%28South_Korea%29) from a disabled North Korean submarine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Gangneung_submarine_infiltration_incident). Out of these, 11 were killed by North Korean commandos from the submarine presumably in a bid to save the rest. 13 were killed by South Korean soldiers as they tried to make their way back over the DMZ over the next 49 days, one was captured and one escaped. 13 South Korean soldiers and 4 civilians were killed,[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-18) and five others wounded, including an off-duty ROK soldier strangled by the escaping infiltrators. North Korea threatened to retaliate over the incident, and in October 1996, a South Korean diplomat, Choi Duk Keun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choe_Deok-geun), was found poisoned in Vladivostok (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladivostok) by a substance similar to that carried on the submarine. By 29 December, however, the North issued an official statement expressing "deep regret" over the submarine incident, although it did not issue a direct apology. In return, the South Korean government returned the cremated remains of the infiltrators to the North via Panmunjom on 30 December. The beached submarine remains at Jeongdongjin, where it has since been turned into an outdoor exhibit. Investigations in the South over the intrusion resulted in twenty ROK officers and soldiers punished for "negligence of duty" and the dismissal of a lieutenant general and a major general. A taxi driver who first spotted the intruders and alerted the authorities was given a hefty reward.[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-19)

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Division_of_Korea&action=edit&section=14)] Maritime incidents


May 1996: Five North Korean naval patrol craft entered South Korean waters in the west coast and withdrew after a four-hour confrontation with Southern forces. Another incident in June 1996 saw three North Korean naval patrol craft intruding for three-hours in the same area.
June 1997: Three North Korean patrol boats entered South Korean waters in the Yellow Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Sea), firing at South Korean patrol boats.
22 June 1998: A North Korean Yugo class submarine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugo_class_submarine) was found caught in fishing nets in South Korean waters 18 km off the coast from Sokcho (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokcho). South Korean fishermen observed the crew trying to untangle the submarine from the fishing nets and notified the South Korean navy. The submarine was subsequently towed by a South Korean corvette to a navy base near Sokcho. It was believed that 5 or 6 crewmen were alive inside and the South Koreans used loudspeakers to try to convince the crew to come out, but they received no response. When the submarine was eventually opened all nine crew were found dead in an apparent group suicide.[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-20) North Korea criticized the South for causing the death of the crew and demanded the return of the bodies and submarine on 27 June. South Korean President Kim Dae Jung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dae_Jung) asked for the North to "admit responsibility and take reasonable measures" in response.
June 1999: A nine-day confrontation was sparked when several North Korean ships intruded into disputed waters near the Northern Limit Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Limit_Line) in the Yellow Sea. A firefight erupted on 15 June 1999, sinking a North Korean torpedo boat and damaging five others. Two South Korean vessels were lightly damaged. North Korea issued a warning that violent exchanges would continue if the disputed waters were to continue being intruded by South Korea or the United States.
9 April 2001: North Korean patrol boats entered South Korean waters briefly over the Northern Limit Line but retreated when challenged by the South Korean Navy. Similar incidents were reported on February 5, March 3 and April 10. 12 maritime intrusions were reported in total in 2001.
5 January 2002: North Korean patrol boats continued to infiltrate into South Korean waters, with another craft spotted off Yeonpyeong Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeonpyeong_Island) in the Yellow Sea.
29 June 2002: North Korean patrol boats crossed the Northern Limit Line and fired at a South Korean patrol boat, provoking a firefight which killed four South Korean military personnel and an unknown number of North Koreans.
11 November 2009: North Korean patrol ship was set on fire after attacking a South Korean ship in the Yellow Sea.[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-21)
26 March 2010: The South Korean warship Cheonan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_%28PCC-772%29) sinks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_sinking), with 46 sailors dying. On 19 May 2010 an investigation said a North Korean submarine caused the sinking.[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-22)

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Division_of_Korea&action=edit&section=15)] Air incidents



19 February 2003: A North Korean fighter jet entered South Korean airspace over the Yellow Sea, the first since 1983. Six South Korean fighter planes responded, and the North Korean plane departed after two minutes.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]



17 June 2011: South Korean soldiers mistakenly fired on an Asiana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana) commercial airplane with small-arms fire; they believed it to be North Korea's military aircraft.[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea#cite_note-23)


The old 'enemy's enemy being a friend' maxim may have a foothold in logic but it has none in morality.

TotalMayhem
10-04-2012, 02:40 PM
150,000 political prisoners languish In secret gulags:


More than 150,000 North Koreans are incarcerated in a Soviet-style, hidden gulag despite the communist government's denial it holds political prisoners, a human rights group reported Tuesday.

The U.S.-based Committee for Human Rights in North Korea said it based its report on interviews with 60 former prisoners and guards. It includes satellite images of what are described as prison labor camps and penitentiaries.

The report documents the alleged incarceration of entire families, including children and grandparents for the "political crimes" of other family members, and infanticide and forced abortions of female prisoners who illegally crossed into China and got pregnant by men there, and were then forcibly repatriated to North Korea.

Full story (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/10/north-korea-prison-camps-150-thousand_n_1414434.html)

riposte
10-04-2012, 03:19 PM
150,000 political prisoners languish In secret gulags:



Full story (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/10/north-korea-prison-camps-150-thousand_n_1414434.html)

TM ... I was getting worried that you had forgotten about this thread and we would have to wait until Christmas Day 2012 for your next contribution.

Good to see you're still reading the Huff :)

TotalMayhem
10-04-2012, 03:33 PM
Good to see you're still reading the Huff :)

Not really, just spotted it at SPIEGEL Online (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,826581,00.html) and when I was looking for an english version the first two links that came up were HuffPo and The Torygraph. ;)

riposte
10-04-2012, 03:58 PM
Not really, just spotted it at SPIEGEL Online (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,826581,00.html) and when I was looking for an english version the first two links that came up were HuffPo and The Torygraph. ;)

So you can follow the edicts of Frau Merkel in her vernacular. Typical :eek:

TotalMayhem
10-04-2012, 06:26 PM
So you can follow the edicts of Frau Merkel in her vernacular. Typical :eek:

I'd rather not... ;)

Count Bobulescu
10-04-2012, 09:44 PM
PENTAGON SAYS NORTH KOREA CLOSER TO MISSILE LAUNCH. North Korea has "taken additional steps” toward launching a controversial satellite later this week, Pentagon spokesman George Little confirmed on Monday, according to the Associated Press. Pyongyang says the missile launch, expected between Thursday and Monday, will carry a satellite and mark the 100th birthday of regime founder Kim Il Sung. U.S. officials worry the vehicle could double as a long-range intercontinental ballistic missile capable of carrying a nuclear warhead. Regional states in the launch trajectory are concerned it could fall from the sky. Read more (http://nationaljournal.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=acc30b544fa4aa185af803703&id=e10f18e922&e=c7a7983233)

Griska
10-04-2012, 09:48 PM
PENTAGON SAYS NORTH KOREA CLOSER TO MISSILE LAUNCH. North Korea has "taken additional steps” toward launching a controversial satellite later this week, Pentagon spokesman George Little confirmed on Monday, according to the Associated Press. Pyongyang says the missile launch, expected between Thursday and Monday, will carry a satellite and mark the 100th birthday of regime founder Kim Il Sung. U.S. officials worry the vehicle could double as a long-range intercontinental ballistic missile capable of carrying a nuclear warhead. Regional states in the launch trajectory are concerned it could fall from the sky. Read more (http://nationaljournal.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=acc30b544fa4aa185af803703&id=e10f18e922&e=c7a7983233)


Yeah, but:

In an unprecedented move, North Korea on Sunday invited foreign journalists to the rocket launch site to try to persuade the world of its peaceful intentions.

This is just huffing and puffing.
Messing with food aid is huffing and puffing in a nasty fashion, though.

Count Bobulescu
10-04-2012, 10:11 PM
Yeah, but:
This is just huffing and puffing.
Messing with food aid is huffing and puffing in a nasty fashion, though.
Probably is huff & puff. Trouble is, because it is so opaque you never know. They use food aid as a bargaining chip also. They are not actually “entitled” to food aid, much though they need it.

TotalMayhem
11-04-2012, 12:39 PM
COOL: Kim Jong Il (http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/nkorea-s-kim-jong-un-named-to-new-top-party-post-1.3651971) is now the "eternal general secretary" of the North Korean Commie party. :D

Count Bobulescu
12-04-2012, 12:20 AM
COOL: Kim Jong Il (http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/nkorea-s-kim-jong-un-named-to-new-top-party-post-1.3651971) is now the "eternal general secretary" of the North Korean Commie party. :D
I imagine Anti will be disappointed, I think he was angling for that position.:D

Kev Bar
12-04-2012, 01:09 AM
I imagine Anti will be disappointed, I think he was angling for that position.:D


It's OK, there is still a vital role for Anti to play to help keep the show on the road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-hyVzTVDLg

Count Bobulescu
12-04-2012, 01:16 AM
That's funny, particularly at the end.

antiestablishmentarian
12-04-2012, 05:20 PM
I imagine Anti will be disappointed, I think he was angling for that position.:D

I wouldn't be too smug if I were you, it's hard to take anyone seriously who quotes the Pentagon where WMD are concerned.

antiestablishmentarian
12-04-2012, 05:24 PM
It's OK, there is still a vital role for Anti to play to help keep the show on the road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-hyVzTVDLg

Jealous of the traffic ladies? Perhaps we can get together a collection here for a legwax and make over, who knows we might even stretch to a wig for you.

Count Bobulescu
12-04-2012, 05:30 PM
I wouldn't be too smug if I were you, it's hard to take anyone seriously who quotes the Pentagon where WMD are concerned.
I wasn't quoting anyone I simply posted what AFP reported.:p

fluffybiscuits
13-04-2012, 12:02 AM
North Korea has launched missile apparently...

fluffybiscuits
13-04-2012, 12:02 AM
https://twitter.com/#!/BreakingNews

DCon
13-04-2012, 12:06 AM
Sky News covering at the moment

Kev Bar
13-04-2012, 12:16 AM
Jealous of the traffic ladies? Perhaps we can get together a collection here for a legwax and make over, who knows we might even stretch to a wig for you.

Ready to play my role.
And help ensure everyone stays on their side of the median.

DCon
13-04-2012, 12:23 AM
Zerohedge saying that ABC are reporting a launch failure

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/north-korea-launches-rocket

DCon
13-04-2012, 12:34 AM
Zerohedge saying that ABC are reporting a launch failure

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/north-korea-launches-rocket

Fox News confirming the launch failure. The missile crashed into the sea

Ah Well
13-04-2012, 12:37 AM
Fox News confirming the launch failure. The missile crashed into the sea

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JYdik816V-4/To2_H4ks_-I/AAAAAAAAA24/LyXbMzTORhQ/s1600/fireworks_1.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-surUDSDgqVM/To3CvPcs_jI/AAAAAAAAA28/qgcP5T1HUC8/s1600/squib.jpg

Dr. FIVE
13-04-2012, 12:40 AM
Dramatic Look - YouTube

Kev Bar
13-04-2012, 12:50 AM
Zerohedge being witty:


Somebody is about to have their daily 5 gram portion of food cut in half as the local rocket no fly long time.

Ah Well
13-04-2012, 12:58 AM
Zerohedge being witty:


Somebody is about to have their daily 5 gram portion of food cut in half as the local rocket no fly long time.

Pure nonsense ... already orbited the earth 5 times

Brighter than the ISS

Head outside in about 30 mins, listen carefully and you'll hear ... far far above

Aegukka - North Korea National anthem Vocal - YouTube

fluffybiscuits
13-04-2012, 12:03 PM
Fox News confirming the launch failure. The missile crashed into the sea

DJ Jean - The Launch - YouTube

Richardbouvet
13-04-2012, 02:39 PM
Shortly before the launch, a very debonair man was seeing speeding away in an Aston Martin.

Kev Bar
13-04-2012, 02:39 PM
Apparently Fat Boy was misheard screaming for "LUNCH"

fluffybiscuits
13-04-2012, 02:56 PM
Shortly before the launch, a very debonair man was seeing speeding away in an Aston Martin.

Reports say some people near the site were shaken and others cannot be stirred :D :p

Count Bobulescu
13-04-2012, 02:56 PM
NORTH KOREA’S LAUNCH POSES NEW QUESTIONS. Under a two-month-old agreement, North Korea agreed to a moratorium on its missile testing, a halt to uranium enrichment, and resumption of the international monitoring of its nuclear sites. Washington said it would provide 240,000 tons of food aid to the impoverished country. With Thursday’s missile launch, that deal lies in shambles. North Korea ignored the Obama administration’s promises to cancel the food aid and press for harsh new sanctions if it went ahead with the launch. It has instead signaled plans for a nuclear weapons test, which would be a far more provocative move. Either way, the odds of new U.S.-North Korean talks seems to hover right around zero, writes National Journal’s Yochi J. Dreazen. Read more (http://nationaljournal.us1.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=acc30b544fa4aa185af803703&id=ed83264c8b&e=c7a7983233)

fluffybiscuits
13-04-2012, 02:59 PM
NORTH KOREA’S LAUNCH POSES NEW QUESTIONS. Under a two-month-old agreement, North Korea agreed to a moratorium on its missile testing, a halt to uranium enrichment, and resumption of the international monitoring of its nuclear sites. Washington said it would provide 240,000 tons of food aid to the impoverished country. With Thursday’s missile launch, that deal lies in shambles. North Korea ignored the Obama administration’s promises to cancel the food aid and press for harsh new sanctions if it went ahead with the launch. It has instead signaled plans for a nuclear weapons test, which would be a far more provocative move. Either way, the odds of new U.S.-North Korean talks seems to hover right around zero, writes National Journal’s Yochi J. Dreazen. Read more (http://nationaljournal.us1.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=acc30b544fa4aa185af803703&id=ed83264c8b&e=c7a7983233)


What business is it of the US if North Korea wants to design a rocket? And why take the moral high ground and deny aid that could help potentially thousands of people?

Count Bobulescu
13-04-2012, 03:04 PM
What business is it of the US if North Korea wants to design a rocket? And why take the moral high ground and deny aid that could help potentially thousands of people?
Because DPRK has been playing this game of reneging on promises for years.

Kev Bar
13-04-2012, 03:05 PM
What business is it of the US if North Korea wants to design a rocket? And why take the moral high ground and deny aid that could help potentially thousands of people?


Equally one could ask why help maintain the existence of a regime which spends its money on arms rather than feeding its people?

fluffybiscuits
13-04-2012, 03:14 PM
Equally one could ask why help maintain the existence of a regime which spends its money on arms rather than feeding its people?

But is the money not channeled through the aid agencies and other NGO's?

Kev Bar
13-04-2012, 03:45 PM
But is the money not channeled through the aid agencies and other NGO's?

I would imagine they have very little freedom of action if indeed they operate in such a manner.

But irrespective of who hands out the aid, we're back to the old Thai-Cambodian border/Goma cunumdrum...does one rehabilitate the defeated extremists?

In North Korea's case, feeding the people, no matter how you dole the rice out, is helping keep the regime in place and assisting its choice of spending its money on arms as opposed to baby food.

I certainly think that if you are looking for my baby food, I have a right to talk about your addiction to bullets.

fluffybiscuits
13-04-2012, 03:46 PM
I would imagine they have very little freedom of action if indeed they operate in such a manner.

But irrespective of who hands out the aid, we're back to the old Thai-Cambodian border/Goma cunumdrum...does one rehabilitate the defeated extremists?

In North Korea's case, feeding the people, no matter how you dole the rice out, is helping keep the regime in place and assisting its choice of spending its money on arms as opposed to baby food.

I certainly think that if you are looking for my baby food, I have a right to talk about your addiction bullets.

Ah I get you now. Its frustrating looking at the people and knowing they could rise up and over throw a government such as they have and cant :(

Count Bobulescu
13-04-2012, 05:07 PM
Why NK gets away with it.

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/137399/jennifer-lind/why-north-korea-gets-away-with-it?cid=emd-FAnote-Lind-041312

North Korea escapes such punishment thanks to a powerful deterrent. The first leg of Pyongyang’s strategic triad is its “madman” image: the idea that the country might react to retaliation by plunging the peninsula into general war. North Korean officials are not irrational, as so often depicted in the media. Rather, they are following in the tradition of U.S. President Richard Nixon, who spoke of feigning irrationality in order to intimidate his adversaries.

Through its wild rhetoric and behavior at home and abroad, Pyongyang has told the world that in the international game of chicken, it will not swerve -- that it is so ready to fight that it will starve its people and devote a quarter of its economy to defense, hack up enemy soldiers with an axe, and even try to assassinate presidents. This reputation has helped convince CFC’s leaders that they cannot rely upon the normal rules of deterrence, that with such an opponent, tit-for-tat retaliation is too risky and too likely to lead to all-out war.

Count Bobulescu
19-04-2012, 02:58 PM
North Korea backs out of U.S. nuclear deal

Top story: On Tuesday, North Korea declared (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IKmCk1D_xjzAcHwAlnJOJvNK-U9hZg-abvysqR0BmN2YdN46aA9oSaombUWwNqeHHxo8RHHs5f5giAbOf 4gPWDS79eUxFPZwvSOjrgfgUFQVBrAtSZJpHW252KO0ENqnKfz UK0k0egDVyXof3eR0azqtblZKYsn49AfgZRRwsWJb3bIlvYwyL Rwes3DIrOurndcSYSP77eX3934zUAxeKRkM0m0KhXX10RkRaDL qN7PFB1CuBsxNSxdqXLDpqc6j) that it was no longer bound by a deal with the United States in February to suspend uranium enrichment, nuclear tests, and long-range missile tests in exchange for food aid, which Washington halted after Pyongyang's failed rocket launch last week. An agreement to allow nuclear inspectors into the country has also fallen apart.
"We have thus become able to take necessary retaliatory measures," the North Korean Foreign Ministry said (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IKmCk1D_xjzAcHwAlnJOJvNK-U9hZg-abvysqR0BmN2YdN46aA9oSaombUWwNqeHHxo8RHHs5f5giAbOf 4gPWDS79eUxFPZwvSOjrgfgUFQVBrAtSZJpHW252KO0ENqnKfz UK0k0egDVyXof3eR0azqtblZKYsn49AfgZRRwsWJb3bIlvYwyL Rwes3DIrOurndcSYSP77eX3934zUAxeKRkM0m0KhXX10RkRaDL qN7PFB1CuBsxNSxdqXLDpqc6j) in a statement, which came shortly after the U.N. Security Council condemned (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IKmCk1D_xjyDpsUwxlr7ZFUj-Awyn-gzyqlgVVIy1UTttM9oOZVCr2LBZmn5U3r2vU5gA57IgngwsK_f 2XRYt_WQG3lod4Hz9Tdi47qBndje6M5mdg2kPurMFAv6ELJn8G Q6UxFotiv7oQqqGr1lUw==) North Korea for its rocket launch and ordered additional sanctions against the country.
North Korea didn't specify what form that retaliation would take, but some fear that Pyongyang is planning a third nuclear test. "Many analysts expect that with its third test, North Korea will for the first time try a nuclear device using highly enriched uranium," Reuters (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IKmCk1D_xjy-Nrez8UgioITCR4BLCQ1rarTfDGU8vAOCs4pm5b4uxw8YH_4GrD 1TIuJvAjnbPa2L6sjXoHty8Jon_8f7nq0H_wasVI9XiK2P88_p kSOrFg-hD4LW6CTJhH5W_bCmV8mkmzKzy6GgEfF_v1WfEWgzapH9AYnJ7 SPZmzhIOpSR9S4NuJWas4qDovCW5v7HoAo=) notes.

Pentagon chief: 'We're within an inch of war almost every day’ (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=0010EHeQK1bU0xgci_6u9M7cUiHKJeVrYK9aOfvr2 i_8GeVittfRHTkhN6odeT7tdUDROIzsGcWSznunUvX-IEi4m4iGkvL_aJP-uhHV2sWgdbzDjmFH9qE4SGszfwkkPIrkwdR4QrN13W1zm--ds_KhEaDcfB6c1uGltfSfw7HnEJiV7uilkCD8R7IkG3V6vtm0p OWRi8V2aaDni9RjvZikFQdiMAhvkoxf1AYMC4RCJURvCBh2FFk Dw==)
By Jeremy Herb
Defense Secretary Leon Panetta offered a blunt assessment of the threats facing the United States on Wednesday, saying the potential for another war breaking out remains high in places like North Korea.

Kev Bar
21-04-2012, 03:11 AM
Change?
Plus ca change.

Just looking at facebook posting from my friend Nate who got the now famous Pol Pot interview in the mid 90s and now has an interest in North Korea:

" They didn't seem in a negotiating again mood today holding a mass rally vowing to ‘wipe out’ South KoreaTroops and civilians packed Pyongyang’s Kim Il-Sung Square, live television pictures showed and "vowed to wipe out the Lee Myung-Bak group, sworn enemy, to the last man on this land and under this sky." Crowds expresssed "resentment and hatred for the group of rat-like Lee Myung Bak-which hurt again the dignity of the supreme leadership" and demanded an apology or face a "sacred war" Soldiers were shown screaming "Tear the group of rats to death!’" A soldier told the rally that troops "are determined to punish the rats mercilessly with guns and rifles. Let’s completely wipe out the presidential Blue House and the origin of provocations. We have the strongest military means to strike them." A giant caricature showed the South Korean leader with his throat cut.

Count Bobulescu
21-04-2012, 03:40 AM
Change?
Plus ca chage.

Just looking at facebook posting from my friend Nate who got the now famous Pol Pot interview in the mid 90s and now has an interest in North Korea:

" They didn't seem in a negotiating again mood today holding a mass rally vowing to ‘wipe out’ South KoreaTroops and civilians packed Pyongyang’s Kim Il-Sung Square, live television pictures showed and "vowed to wipe out the Lee Myung-Bak group, sworn enemy, to the last man on this land and under this sky." Crowds expresssed "resentment and hatred for the group of rat-like Lee Myung Bak-which hurt again the dignity of the supreme leadership" and demanded an apology or face a "sacred war" Soldiers were shown screaming "Tear the group of rats to death!’" A soldier told the rally that troops "are determined to punish the rats mercilessly with guns and rifles. Let’s completely wipe out the presidential Blue House and the origin of provocations. We have the strongest military means to strike them." A giant caricature showed the South Korean leader with his throat cut.
It’s antics like those that in part causes the US to treat and respond to very differently the failed launching of a missile last week by NK and the successful launch this week of a much more powerful and dangerous one by India. The contrast was very noticeable.

Kev Bar
21-04-2012, 03:58 AM
Indeed.
The Indian one escaped my attention.

Ah Well
23-04-2012, 01:01 AM
American Web Designer's Theme purchased for $15 and used for Homepage of Official North Korean Site

:D

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2132429/American-web-designer-shocked-work-used-official-site-North-Korea--15.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

It does look Flashy tho

http://www.korea-dpr.com/index.html

Dr. FIVE
23-04-2012, 05:54 AM
erm..

[Statement as released by the North Korean military through the country's state-run KCNA news agency]

In view of the situation getting graver as the days go by, the KPA Supreme Command special operation action group issues the following notice upon authorization:

The special actions of our revolutionary armed forces will start soon to meet the reckless challenge of the group of traitors.

Those actions are an eruption of the public anger and resentment and a sacred war of all service personnel and people to protect the dignity of our supreme leadership.

Their targets are the Lee Myung Bak group of traitors, the arch criminals, and the group of rat-like elements including conservative media destroying the mainstay of the fair public opinion.

Once the above-said special actions kick off, they will reduce all the rat-like groups and the bases for provocations to ashes in three or four minutes, in much shorter time, by unprecedented peculiar means and methods of our own style.

Our revolutionary armed forces do not make an empty talk.

fluffybiscuits
23-04-2012, 11:58 PM
American Web Designer's Theme purchased for $15 and used for Homepage of Official North Korean Site

:D

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2132429/American-web-designer-shocked-work-used-official-site-North-Korea--15.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

It does look Flashy tho

http://www.korea-dpr.com/index.html

http://www.cafepress.com/kfashop

See their shop! Im getting myself a Kim Jung mug ;)

Ah Well
24-04-2012, 12:08 AM
http://www.cafepress.com/kfashop

See their shop! Im getting myself a Kim Jung mug ;)

I thought you were taking the **** there but no ... direct link from the motherland

http://www.korea-dpr.com/

That side tab is woeful ... propaganda 1 - 13 :D:rolleyes::p

Count Bobulescu
13-06-2012, 08:58 PM
North Korea hijacks three Chinese fishing boats. Talk about biting the hand........


http://www.npr.org/2012/06/12/154774626/hijacking-reveals-strains-in-china-north-korea-ties


New strains are emerging between China and its old ally, North Korea, six months after the death of reclusive North Korean leader Kim Jong Il. The recent North Korean hijacking of Chinese fishing boats has shaken those ties considerably, leading to public pressure on China to stand up to North Korea.
Fishing boats returning to their home port in China don't normally make the news. But they did last month, because three boats — and 28 fishermen — had been detained for almost two weeks in North Korea.
"We were in Chinese waters, two nautical miles from the sea border, so we thought they couldn't arrest us," ship captain Han Qiang said in an interview with local TV.
The fishermen thought wrong.

Count Bobulescu
18-09-2012, 06:08 PM
MOSCOW — Russian media report that the country has written off most of North Korea’s $11 billion debt.The Russian finance ministry on Tuesday confirmed that it has signed a debt deal with North Korea, but refused to provide immediate details.
Interfax quoted deputy finance minister Sergei Storchak as saying that Russia has written off 90 ercent of the Soviet-era debthttp://www.washingtonpost.com/business/report-russia-writes-off-90-pct-of-nkoreas-11b-debt/2012/09/18/f061c934-0170-11e2-bbf0-e33b4ee2f0e8_story.html?hpid=z5

Jolly Green Giant
26-09-2012, 04:41 PM
Much needed farm reforms in the North, the price of rice in the markets has more than doubled in the last three months. All that Chinese pressure for them to reform seems to be causing some much needed reforms at last .



North Korean farmers may be allowed to keep more of their crops to sell or barter, according to several sources, in a move that could raise living standards and mark an important shift in economic policies.

The north's collective farms have long struggled to feed the country's 24 million people. Around a third of the north's children are chronically malnourished, according to the United Nations World Food Programme.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/24/north-korea-farming-reform-kim-jong-un?newsfeed=true

Count Bobulescu
28-11-2012, 12:05 AM
Kim Jong-un named sexiest man alive.

Original: We're not here to debate whether or not North Korea's supreme leader, Kim Jong-un, is the sexiest man alive. No, we're here to snicker that The Onion fooled China's communist paper into thinking it so. The actual article from the People's Daily Online, the official newspaper of China's communist party, isn't much more than taking a few quotes from the Onion article and smacking them onto a 55-PAGE SLIDESHOW GALLERY of Kim looking all majestic and whatnot.


http://www.theatlanticwire.com/entertainment/2012/11/onion-convinces-actual-chinese-communists-kim-jong-un-actually-sexiest-man-alive/59339/

Sam Lord
10-12-2013, 12:52 PM
Extraordinary public arrest of Uncle Jang Song Thaek, hitherto considered to be the Number 2 in North Korea. (about 3.45 in)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBytohd83NI

Count Bobulescu
13-12-2013, 12:24 AM
KJU's uncle is kaput! Remind me again who's in charge around here.

North Korea Says It Has Executed Uncle of Kim Jong-un (http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pgpViZma VOHBCFrsVx796OF+bmoCU22rZWGcwVGSDYEjmgWBPnrKYJZPnW zkBYU3nbASSF35hF2R+yP76Kd9jPtpl7azgRP87IpgheoRFd3N u1r+pPQ+6SPA==&campaign_id=132&instance_id=35072&segment_id=53412&user_id=c29b103c0a4a0a6fbed998a1a431e377&regi_id=40411616)

North Korea announced early Friday it had executed the uncle and one-time mentor of its top leader Kim Jong-un, calling him a traitor.


The announcement, reported by the official Korean Central News Agency, said the uncle, Jang Song-thaek, was put to death on Thursday after a special military trial.


The execution came less than a week after Mr. Jang, who was more than twice Mr. Kim’s age, was dismissed from the ruling party and arrested in a surprise purge that unnerved neighbors of North Korea, one of the world’s most hermetic and secretive countries.


READ MORE »

Count Bobulescu
13-12-2013, 01:44 AM
The uncle's trial has now been scheduled for next week. Defense is pleading insufficient time to prepare their case.

Holly
13-12-2013, 06:57 AM
Looks like a suspected coup d'etat was foiled. It's only a matter of time before the whole rotten communist state falls asunder.

C. Flower
13-12-2013, 10:02 AM
Looks like a suspected coup d'etat was foiled. It's only a matter of time before the whole rotten communist state falls asunder.

Do you look forward to the utopia of a capitalist world unsullied by any taint of opposition ?

Holly
13-12-2013, 10:28 AM
Do you look forward to the utopia of a capitalist world unsullied by any taint of opposition ?
Communism stinks.

C. Flower
13-12-2013, 10:51 AM
Communism stinks.

I would be interested to know when, and why, you drew that conclusion.

Holly
13-12-2013, 12:58 PM
I would be interested to know when, and why, you drew that conclusion.

By observing the sapping of personal freedom, the establishment of police states, and the crushing of dissent, as well as the inefficiencies in their economies, those countries which had communism ruthlessly forced upon them were manifestly impoverished nightmares. North Korea should give any would-be red the willies.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBytohd83NI

Count Bobulescu
17-12-2013, 03:32 AM
Kim Jong-Un's Aunt Doing Just Fine, Thank You (http://www.thewire.com/global/2013/12/kim-jong-uns-aunt-doing-just-fine-thank-you/356165/)Not only is Kim Jong-Un's aunt not dead – a fate that befell her husband, Jang Sung-taek, who was (http://www.thewire.com/global/2013/12/north-korea-executed-kim-jong-uns-uncle/356095/)executed as a traitor this week (http://www.thewire.com/global/2013/12/north-korea-executed-kim-jong-uns-uncle/356095/) in North Korea – she's earned herself something of a promotion.

random new yorker
17-12-2013, 03:39 AM
C. Flower: Do you look forward to the utopia of a capitalist world unsullied by any taint of opposition ?


Communism stinks.

oh dear :)

the utopia of a capitalist world untaint by opposition... tis another one that doesn't compute well in my head

Count Bobulescu
04-01-2014, 04:54 PM
Reports in Chinese media are still unconfirmed.

Would Kim Jong-un Really Feed His Uncle to Starving Dogs? (http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/01/did-kim-jong-un-really-feed-his-uncle-starving-dogs/356668/)

Count Bobulescu
07-01-2014, 09:31 PM
Kim Jong-Un's Aunt Doing Just Fine, Thank You (http://www.thewire.com/global/2013/12/kim-jong-uns-aunt-doing-just-fine-thank-you/356165/)

Not only is Kim Jong-Un's aunt not dead – a fate that befell her husband, Jang Sung-taek, who was (http://www.thewire.com/global/2013/12/north-korea-executed-kim-jong-uns-uncle/356095/)executed as a traitor this week (http://www.thewire.com/global/2013/12/north-korea-executed-kim-jong-uns-uncle/356095/) in North Korea – she's earned herself something of a promotion.

Well maybe not:


North Korea: Kim Kyong-hui, the aunt of North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un and wife of Jang Song-taek, who was executed last month, has reportedly also died (http://link.foreignpolicy.com/52531722c16bcfa46f6bc7771e37v.8ya/Usv6VeYQAWRDlrHvB51f6) under mysterious circumstances. Early reports suggested she died of a heart attack or by suicide, though others speculated she may have died while seeking medical treatment abroad. The report comes as former basketball star Dennis Rodman returns (http://link.foreignpolicy.com/52531722c16bcfa46f6bc7771e37v.8ya/Usv6VeYQAWRDlrHwBae9d) to North Korea with a team of former NBA players for a "birthday present" exhibition game against a North Korean team for Kim Jong-un, with whom Rodman has developed an improbable friendship.

Count Bobulescu
25-02-2014, 04:14 AM
North Korea looks like a sea of misery in this photo from space http://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/83000/83182/ISS038-E-038300_lrg.jpgNorth Korea appears as nothing more than a shadow in the above photograph (http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=83182), taken at night aboard the International Space Station last month. South Korea’s eastern coastline is indistinguishable from the demilitarized zone along the border with the North, as though the Sea of Japan flowed into the Yellow Sea and Pyongyang were an island in a strait separating South Korea from China.

Count Bobulescu
28-03-2014, 03:45 AM
If only I had hair I'd do it......


THE COOLEST HAIRCUT IN NORTH KOREA IS THE ONLY HAIRCUT IN NORTH KOREA: (http://nationaljournal.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=acc30b544fa4aa185af803703&id=df126a7be9&e=c7a7983233) All North Korean men must get the Kim Jong-Un hairdo, per new media reports. There's some skepticism from the people: "It doesn't always go with everyone since everyone has different face and head shapes." (BBC)

Sam Lord
28-03-2014, 09:09 AM
Just look at who was recently spotted selling barbequed skewered meat in Shenyang city, Liaoning province, China.

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n611/boavista1/KIMJONG1_zps18d56e9e.jpg

http://www.chinasmack.com/2014/pictures/kim-jong-un-look-alike-chinese-street-vendor-amuses-netizens.html

yi25
28-03-2014, 11:03 AM
[QUOTE=Holly;364529]By observing the sapping of personal freedom, the establishment of police states, and the crushing of dissent, as well as the inefficiencies in their economies, those countries which had communism ruthlessly forced upon them were manifestly impoverished nightmares. North Korea should give any would-be red the willies.

Sapping of personal freedoms...police states...crushing of dissent....inefficiencies in economies, sounds a wee bit like the E.U. Communism has never worked, because it has never been tried, what we have got from the likes of USSR..China...Nth Korea, is a dictatorship, that is not communism.
One thing we do know is that capitalism doe's not work, for the man on the street, ends up paying for the mistakes of the wealthy elite.Also if you look at the most capitalistic country in the world the U.S they do not have many freedoms left, many are living in abject poverty,they destroy the enviroment in the interests of the "economy", and enforce "democracy" on other sovereign countries to protect their interests.The E.U will follow on shortly, its in their DNA to do so, as most of the countries that make up the EU have imperialist pasts.

Sam Lord
30-03-2014, 12:51 PM
If only I had hair I'd do it......


THE COOLEST HAIRCUT IN NORTH KOREA IS THE ONLY HAIRCUT IN NORTH KOREA: (http://nationaljournal.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=acc30b544fa4aa185af803703&id=df126a7be9&e=c7a7983233) All North Korean men must get the Kim Jong-Un hairdo, per new media reports. There's some skepticism from the people: "It doesn't always go with everyone since everyone has different face and head shapes." (BBC)

Makey up news apparently:

http://www.nknews.org/2014/03/why-kim-jong-un-hairstyle-order-is-unlikely-true/

TotalMayhem
14-09-2014, 11:56 AM
The North Korean Bolshie paradise sentenced Matthew Miller to six years in a penal labour camp because he allegedly tore up his visa and asked for political asylum.

Note: Bolshies don't grant political asylum and asking for it is apparently a crime.

Link (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29162903)

C. Flower
10-10-2014, 06:23 PM
Numerous rumours about coups, illness, regime change. Exchanges of shelling along the North South border over the last two days.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/asia-pacific/north-korean-leader-kim-jongun-flees-after-attempted-coup-by-sister-30652068.html

Griska
10-10-2014, 07:50 PM
You'd have to think something's up.
He didn't show for the Party anniversary today.
I love the rumour that he's ill because he ate imported cheese.

Griska
10-10-2014, 08:53 PM
Here he is-



848

morticia
11-10-2014, 07:37 AM
Oh that's fab...