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Andrew49
06-09-2010, 10:13 AM
Pope Benedict XVI is likely to meet victims of child abuse when he visits the United Kingdom next week, the head of the Catholic Church in England and Wales indicated Sunday. "The pattern of his last five or six visits has been that he has met victims of abuse," Archbishop Vincent Nichols said on the BBC'S "Andrew Marr Show. But the rules are very clear," he continued, saying there was no announcement in advance of such meetings, which are private and confidential. Source (http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/09/05/uk.pope.abuse/?hpt=T2#fbid=f4lvT9ucDm5&wom=false)

No change there then. Ratzinger and his minions want to continue along the 'keep it secret' trail that all abusers and their facilitators practice! We've had enough of secrecy.

How are these abuse, who are going to meet Ratzinger, victims going to be chosen? The only reason I'd want to meet him would be to put some handcuffs on him!

Also the Vatican says only a tiny minority of clergy have molested children, yet fail to point out that 90% bishops/archbishops/cardinals in the US, Ireland, the UK, and Australia facilitated the abuser and covered up the abuse. Yet again showing that the Vatican has still failed to grasp the nub of the abuse problem.

Apjp
06-09-2010, 10:25 AM
Pope Benedict XVI is likely to meet victims of child abuse when he visits the United Kingdom next week, the head of the Catholic Church in England and Wales indicated Sunday. "The pattern of his last five or six visits has been that he has met victims of abuse," Archbishop Vincent Nichols said on the BBC'S "Andrew Marr Show. But the rules are very clear," he continued, saying there was no announcement in advance of such meetings, which are private and confidential. Source (http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/09/05/uk.pope.abuse/?hpt=T2#fbid=f4lvT9ucDm5&wom=false)

No change there then. Ratzinger and his minions want to continue along the 'keep it secret' trail that all abusers and their facilitators practice! We've had enough of secrecy.

How are these abuse, who are going to meet Ratzinger, victims going to be chosen? The only reason I'd want to meet him would be to put some handcuffs on him!

Also the Vatican says only a tiny minority of clergy have molested children, yet fail to point out that 90% bishops/archbishops/cardinals in the US, Ireland, the UK, and Australia facilitated the abuser and covered up the abuse. Yet again showing that the Vatican has still failed to grasp the nub of the abuse problem.

all ill say is it cant be that secret then!! :)

Garland Names the Planets
06-09-2010, 10:37 AM
Will we have coloured smoke emerging from whatever conclave he meets these people to indicate that Ratzinger finally gets the message?

C. Flower
06-09-2010, 10:53 AM
This happened on the recent Maltese visit and I seem to remember people who had been abused were not too happy with what they perceived as a cynical PR gesture.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
06-09-2010, 11:09 AM
Its happened on a few recent visits- basically it means that the Pope can continue the pretence of 'healing' without giving any commitment to the survivors re cooperation with authorities.

its a cynical PR ploy and even where it is proposed the argument over a response would divide survivors.

Garland Names the Planets
06-09-2010, 11:10 AM
JP2 had his good points but this guy. What the f"ck we're they thinking? He's a moron

Captain Con O'Sullivan
06-09-2010, 11:14 AM
The Holy Ghost could not have 'picked' a worse candidate for Pope. If Benny hadn't had the nod from the Spook he'd quite likely have been named as one of the Cardinals inolved in the cover-up of child abuses in the states- which he actually was.

'My bad' says Holy Ghost ... in fact given that Ratzinger was the sole authority through whose office all internal documents concerning child abuse cases officially had to go the Holy Ghost really dropped a clanger on Benny.;)

Andrew49
06-09-2010, 11:15 AM
This happened on the recent Maltese visit and I seem to remember people who had been abused were not too happy with what they perceived as a cynical PR gesture.

That's what it was - it was a chance for Ratzinger to wet his eyes. These kinds of meetings with Church officials are of no value until the Church is honest about it's culpability in the abuse of children and it's continuing cover-up and sheltering of bishops and cardinals who facilitated it. The Church must submit to the law of the land. Where on this planet is it best for victims of sexual violence to meet with those responsible for that violence ... certainly not in secret meetings but in open court.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
06-09-2010, 11:22 AM
Throughout the entire worldwide conflagration of child abuse scandals involving the catholic church there has never been any suggestion from a leading cleric that canon law is subservient to international law.

That is the great silent issue here- that catholics regard themselves as above secular law and answer only to Europe's last absolute monarch.

At least people are getting a good look at these medieval weirdos and their odd beliefs. It also highights an old misconception - the reason the UK introduced a law stating that their monarch could not marry a catholic was not because of an anti-catholic bias but because they knew about the implications of the catholic 'golf-club' rules.

You can't have the head of state being influenced by someone who thinks that some old german tourist living in a Roman palace has a direct line to god and has to do whatever they say.

As it happens I regard the rule against allowing catholic influence over the head of state in the UK to be a good thing. I'd recommend it in Ireland all things considered. And enter the last fifty years of Irish public policy as evidence- from the Taoiseachs who described themselves as 'catholic before Irish' to vomitous little vatican placemen like Michael Woods TD.

disability student
06-09-2010, 06:11 PM
Andrew49-That's what it was - it was a chance for Ratzinger to wet his eyes.
These kinds of meetings with Church officials are of no value until the Church is honest about it's culpability in the abuse of children and it's continuing cover-up and sheltering of bishops and cardinals who facilitated it.


+1

Captain Con O'Sullivan
07-09-2010, 10:02 AM
I'm just surprised that the RICO act doesn't appear to apply to catholic clergy in the United States.

For RICO charges there has to be a conspiracy between a number of people to commit crimes in concert and conceal from law enforcement agencies.

I'd have thought the operation of canon law between Cardinals and Bishops in the US including Ratzinger was de facto evidence of a conspiracy to conceal major crimes.

Andrew49
07-09-2010, 02:49 PM
I'm just surprised that the RICO act doesn't appear to apply to catholic clergy in the United States.

For RICO charges there has to be a conspiracy between a number of people to commit crimes in concert and conceal from law enforcement agencies.

I'd have thought the operation of canon law between Cardinals and Bishops in the US including Ratzinger was de facto evidence of a conspiracy to conceal major crimes.

"I've taken the depositions from cardinals, arch-bishops and bishops across this country {U.S.) for 23 years and what I've encountered is deception, perjury, denial and deceit at the highest levels of the catholic church" (Jeff Anderson). From Deliver Us From Evil

disability student
07-09-2010, 04:30 PM
"I've taken the depositions from cardinals, arch-bishops and bishops across this country {U.S.) for 23 years and what I've encountered is deception, perjury, denial and deceit at the highest levels of the catholic church" (Jeff Anderson). From Deliver Us From Evil

I wonder what about the depositions from the Irish bishops, Cardinal Brady,et al??

It should be there for us to see it for ourselves.

Newsy
07-09-2010, 04:38 PM
In June, the The International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State (ITCCS) was established.

Its 5 basic principles are

1. Full reparations for survivors,

2. Full disclosure of the crimes,

3. Repatriation of the dead,

4. Criminal prosecution of those responsible,

5. Preventative measures to ensure that the crimes against children end.

They are going to London during the pope's visit.


Tuesday, September 14, 2010 Arrive in London, UK

Wednesday, September 15: 11 am Book Launch by K. Annett, downtown London - 7 pm Public Lecture by Tribunal members, Conway Hall, Red Lion Square (under auspices of The Secular Society)

Thursday, September 16: 11 am Public Vigil for victims of the Roman Catholic church and Press Conference with Tribunal members outside Westminster Catholic Cathedral

Friday, September 17: Participate in protests and vigils against Pope Joseph Ratzinger outside Lambeth Palace and Houses of Parliament followed by possible evening conference of survivors of Catholic abuse

Saturday, September 18: Counter events to oppose public mass and vigil by the Pope outside Westminster Cathedral and Hyde Park

Sunday, September 19: 11 am - Public walking vigil and procession to Westminster Cathedral and Abbey laying of remains from church schools

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=3945

It should be a very busy and interesting time in London, during his visit.

Andrew49
07-09-2010, 04:44 PM
I wonder what about the depositions from the Irish bishops, Cardinal Brady,et al??

It should be there for us to see it for ourselves.

There must be some kind of legal papers concerning Brady's immediate predecessor (Dearest Dessie) - Dessie tried to block access to over 60,000 documents - ALL of these documents related to CLERGY SEXUAL TERRORISM; names of abusers etc., some even related to insurance policies protecting - YES PROTECTING - the Dublin Archdiocese against possible claims for child abuse by its clergy. In 1987 the church had taken out an insurance policy to help cover future legal costs involved in defending compensation claims by victims. The act of taking out such an insurance policy proves the Archdiocese had knowledge of CLERGY SEXUAL TERRORISM in their ranks and that it could become a potential major cost to the Archdiocese!

Andrew49
07-09-2010, 04:49 PM
Then there was the extra-secret 5,000 files relating to 29 priests. Dessie was prepared to go to jail to protect these files coming to light. These 5,000 files were kept in Dessie's own secret vault.

disability student
07-09-2010, 04:51 PM
There must be some kind of legal papers concerning Brady's immediate predecessor (Dearest Dessie) - Dessie tried to block access to over 60,000 documents - ALL of these documents related to CLERGY SEXUAL TERRORISM; names of abusers etc., some even related to insurance policies protecting - YES PROTECTING - the Dublin Archdiocese against possible claims for child abuse by its clergy. In 1987 the church had taken out an insurance policy to help cover future legal costs involved in defending compensation claims by victims. The act of taking out such an insurance policy proves the Archdiocese had knowledge of CLERGY SEXUAL TERRORISM in their ranks and that it could become a potential major cost to the Archdiocese!

I was talking to a guy in the courts as he said it was possible that 60K documents was handed over to Judge Yvonne Murphy whose husband is the Supreme Court Judge Hardiman.

I's very disturbing that they knew way back in 1987 as they attempted to cover it up shrouded in their usual secrecy.

disability student
07-09-2010, 04:55 PM
Then there was the extra-secret 5,000 files relating to 29 priests. Dessie was prepared to go to jail to protect these files coming to light. These 5,000 files were kept in Dessie's own secret vault.



Really? i don't know much about these. Met Archbishop Martin recently as he seems to be approachable and learned few signs in order to communicate with us.

We were introduced to him as my friend's their local priest is a very good friend of Martin. He spoke about his brother who used to work in Moscow and now in France.

Andrew49
07-09-2010, 05:21 PM
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Really? i don't know much about these. Met Archbishop Martin recently as he seems to be approachable and learned few signs in order to communicate with us.

We were introduced to him as my friend's their local priest is a very good friend of Martin. He spoke about his brother who used to work in Moscow and now in France.

Diarmuid Martin was flown in by the Vatican to clean up Dessie's (and the archdiocese's) mess. Diarmuid appears a very lonely figure. Very few priests have come forward in public to voice support for him .... contrast that with dark mutterings of other priests AND bishops. I wouldn't be surprised if Diarmuid Martin threw in his roman collar and went native and formed his own Celtic church !!!

disability student
07-09-2010, 05:28 PM
Diarmuid Martin was flown in by the Vatican to clean up Dessie's (and the archdiocese's) mess. Diarmuid appears a very lonely figure. Very few priests have come forward in public to voice support for him .... contrast that with dark mutterings of other priests AND bishops. I wouldn't be surprised if Diarmuid Martin threw in his roman collar and went native and formed his own Celtic church !!!

I think Martin have a yearning to go back to Italy where he worked for 20 some years as he speaks fluent Italian.

It's not surprising that priests in Dublin diocese are reluctant to voice support for Martin.

I have a feeling that he would return to Italy some day when his work in Dublin is over and dusted.

Recently Irish Catholic magazine (Irish Catholic) went against him by writing to the editor and also John Cooney of IT as well.

To be honest, Irish Catholic system is in dire state as they needed a huge reform at all levels starting right from the top to the bottom.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
08-09-2010, 09:52 AM
Diarmuid Martin is no simple priest. He is an economics expert and spent considerable time in his career as the Vatican observer at World Trade talks and at the UN HQ in Geneva.

I remain as suspicious of Diarmuid Martin as I do of all senior catholic clergy- Martin was overlooked for a red hat once before and how he handled the 'Irish problem' was widely seen in the church as his test for a cardinal's palace.

Its no accident either that the Vatican sent in a financial expert to oversee the 'Irish problem'.

Andrew49
08-09-2010, 12:13 PM
Repentance is more effective than structural change within the Church to counter sexual abuse by priests.

Using an indirect historical analogy, the pope today recalled the words of XII century Saint Hildegard, according to whom
"a true renewal of the ecclesiastic community is the result less of structural changes than of a sincere spirit of repentance and an active path towards conversion".
Saint Hildergard at the time was fighting the criticism by German sects
"proposing a radical reform of the Church in order to fight abuses by clergy," the Pope told 7000 pilgrims at his weekly general audience. The pontiff said Hildergard's was
"a message that we should never forget". Source (http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/pope-urges-abuse-repentance-over-change/story-e6frfku0-1225916097732)

What he means by 'structural change' is that at present no bishop, archbishop, or cardinal has been made subject to the laws of the countries where they facilitated sexual violence by their clergy on children.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
08-09-2010, 12:25 PM
'repentance' is the catholic clergy's codeword for canon law or the confessional being above all secular laws.

Hope the old nazi dies screaming.

Andrew49
08-09-2010, 12:33 PM
Ratzinger is digging up a 12th century prelate to support his stance. Knowing that if he went even further back he might come across a guy talking, nay urging the use of 'millstones around necks' and 'to cast them into the oceans' in cases of child abuse and the facilitation of child abusers. Of course if Ratzinger went the 'millstones' route he'd create a tsunami to dwarf all tsunamis.

And it's a tsunami we're going to need against these guys!

Captain Con O'Sullivan
08-09-2010, 12:37 PM
Its the same old coded conversation. Benny The Bum maintain as all popes do that the only courts that count are the ones that can 'forgive' a sinner. Those courts being administered by catholic priests.

Thats why there is so much emphasis on 'forgiveness', 'atonement' and words like 'humility'.

He's just playing the sophist and continuing to refuse to entertain the concept that child-rape is an issue to be dealt with by legal authorities.

A medieval cult run and administered by elderly psychosexual inadequates fed by dumb superstitious followers. That is the history of the catholic church.

Andrew49
17-09-2010, 12:00 PM
Five arrested in 'pope terror' plot
The five were arrested on suspicion of the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism under the Terrorism Act 2000. The five men are 26, 27, 36, 40 and 50 years old. They were arrested in an armed operation at business premises where searches are continuing.