"Work For Your Dole" Scheme Announced by O'Cuiv

[C. Flower]

Eamon O Cúiv has announced 40,000 places on a "work for dole" scheme.
Every premise the scheme is based on seems to be nonsense.

I urge anyone involved in a voluntary group to boycott running the scheme. If work is meaningful and needed, then it should be paid.



The Minister for Social Protection Éamon Ó Cuív says the aim of the scheme is to help those out of work to maintain and develop skills and to deter welfare fraud.

It is hoped that the measures can be implemented on a cost neutral basis, with any extra cost being offset by savings resulting from people who are not genuinely unemployed ceasing to claim because of the new requirements.

The participants are expected to work in areas like after school services, childcare, services for older people, environmental projects and in the improvement of sports and tourist facilities.

The proposals would see participants work 19.5 hours a week and receive around €210 in return.

Unlike applicants for job seekers benefit they will not be means tested and they can work part-time outside of the scheme as well.

But if claimants do not turn up for the hours they are expected to work under the scheme, their dole will be stopped.

The changes are being implemented as part of the expansion and development of the Community Services Programme and the Rural Social Scheme.

It is expected that the changes will involve up to 10,000 new participants this year, rising to 40,000 over the course of two years.

[disability student]

The problem is their lack of detail:

Also their intention to massage the dole figures which it would mean 40K off the live register once they have signed with the CES (Community scheme employment). That would enable them to say unemployment have gone down etc -in their bullsh** talk.

Hours 19.5- would they lose the dole in return for €210?? or ???

CES is not reliable programme as i have heard from friends who have had worked in CE programme.

[wickedfairy]

Eamon O Cúiv has announced 40,000 places on a "work for dole" scheme.
Every premise the scheme is based on seems to be nonsense.

I urge anyone involved in a voluntary group to boycott running the scheme. If work is meaningful and needed, then it should be paid.

I totally agree with you, the bloody check of them, they want slaves now, Bill Cullen would love a few of them I am sure. We pay for our dole in taxes, HOW DARE THE TELL US WHAT THEY CAN DO WITH OUR MONEY - time for a REVOLUTION, GET THESE FASCIST B******* OUT NOW!!!

[TotalMayhem]

If work is meaningful and needed, then it should be paid.

But t is paid and €10.77 per hour is 25% higher than the minimum wage (€8.65).

Of course such a scheme may interfere with whatever lucrative jobs the poor critters may have on the side, but that's a different story altogether.


We pay for our dole in taxes

That we do, can't we expect anything in return? The idea is certainly better than pouring the money into black holes.

[C. Flower]

But t is paid and €10.77 per hour is 25% higher than the minimum wage (€8.65).

Of course such a scheme may interfere with whatever lucrative jobs the poor critters may have on the side, but that's a different story altogether.

That we do, can't we expect anything in return? The idea is certainly better than pouring the money into black holes.


Then give them proper public service jobs.

[Fing Fers]

I totally agree with you, the bloody check of them, they want slaves now, Bill Cullen would love a few of them I am sure. We pay for our dole in taxes, HOW DARE THE TELL US WHAT THEY CAN DO WITH OUR MONEY - time for a REVOLUTION, GET THESE FASCIST B******* OUT NOW!!!

It was only a matter of time before something like this started. Its madness to be given the option of work or no dole. They'll have people slaving away being over seen by some Co Council worker who gets paid 10 times more. This is the stuff in NWO books, someone give Alex Jones a shout on this one.

[TotalMayhem]

Then give them proper public service jobs.

Ah yes, and how high would you estimate the demand for jobs paying €210 a week when €196 for nothing plus the possibility to make some extra money 'on the side' is an option?

[Seán Ryan]

This wouldn't be so insulting if the so-called work was handed out on a fulltime basis. The way they're going to do it will just facilitate folks remaining on the breadline and having their lives dictated to them by a shower that are not fit to be considered sentient.

[Fing Fers]

Work for Benifit, thats a massive contradiction. Right off the bat FF have already f***ed this plan. Idiots cant do one thing right.

[Fing Fers]

This wouldn't be so insulting if the so-called work was handed out on a fulltime basis. The way they're going to do it will just facilitate folks remaining on the breadline and having their lives dictated to them by a shower that are not fit to be considered sentient.

We're on the last lap of the race to the bottom.

[TotalMayhem]

This wouldn't be so insulting if the so-called work was handed out on a fulltime basis.

I would agree to that, and everything should be up for a debate.

But just saying O'Cuiv wants cheap slaves I cannot take serious.

[Seán Ryan]

I agree. O'Cuiv doesn't possess the intellect to see that far.

[Baron von Biffo]

Then give them proper public service jobs.

Lifting the PS recruitment embargo and filling necessary posts would probably have a much better impact on the economy but it would cause the mother of all hissy fits from IBEC/ISME/Indo.

It would be an interesting exercise for someone to calculate the cost of employing say, a nurse to do child minding on this scheme and then price the true net cost to the state of employing her to do the job she's trained for. Regard would have to be had for the additional costs of medical card, rent supplement etc as well as the savings on expensive agency staff.

[TotalMayhem]

I agree. O'Cuiv doesn't possess the intellect to see that far.

He's a bit challenged alright. ;)

[Baron von Biffo]

Of course such a scheme may interfere with whatever lucrative jobs the poor critters may have on the side, but that's a different story altogether.

It may also interfere with the poor critters who currently provide the services that O'Cuiv is targeting.

[C. Flower]

So, while the schools and hospitals are on the point of collapse this Autumn because of the recruitment embargo, we'll be telling qualified teachers and nurses to pick up litter for the dole.

Genius of a system.

[Murra]

I am not opposed to a scheme like this. It sounds fair enough to me - you can earn €10.77 per hour part-time, PLUS work extra to increase your income and keep your benefits too?. Believe it or not, there are many people in full time jobs who don't earn €10.77 ph and who don't have any of the other supplementary benefits. There's loads of work that needs doing, especially in the areas outlined, and it's good for people's mental health to have a job to go to. We have to get over this dependency and notion of 'entitlement' that we hold towards social welfare benefits. Anybody who is able to work, should work.

[C. Flower]

I am not opposed to a scheme like this. It sounds fair enough to me - you can earn €10.77 per hour part-time, PLUS work extra to increase your income and keep your benefits too?. Believe it or not, there are many people in full time jobs who don't earn €10.77 ph and who don't have any of the other supplementary benefits. There's loads of work that needs doing, especially in the areas outlined, and it's good for people's mental health to have a job to go to. We have to get over this dependency and notion of 'entitlement' that we hold towards social welfare benefits. Anybody who is able to work, should work.

Then they should have a proper job.

Most voluntary committees are well meaning and do good stuff, but they are certainly not qualified or equipped to run teams of workers. The idea that this could be done in any acceptable way without cost is delusional.

[Murra]

Lifting the PS recruitment embargo and filling necessary posts would probably have a much better impact on the economy but it would cause the mother of all hissy fits from IBEC/ISME/Indo.

It would be an interesting exercise for someone to calculate the cost of employing say, a nurse to do child minding on this scheme and then price the true net cost to the state of employing her to do the job she's trained for. Regard would have to be had for the additional costs of medical card, rent supplement etc as well as the savings on expensive agency staff.

PS workers, courtesy of their Unions, priced themselves out of the market. We can't afford the benchmarking anymore. Increases in pay, huge staffing levels and poor productivity.... it's unsustainable.

The problem with monies thrown at say, health services, is that it is not targetted at frontline staff, and too much is wasted in admin. When that situation is rectified, by means of embargo and natural reduction of staff, then there should be more invested in frontline.

[C. Flower]

O'Cuiv didn't invent this.

Every time there is a slump, up crops "workfare" or work camps. Then war.
It's a real sign that the economic system has seized up and is dysfunctional.

[TotalMayhem]

O'Cuiv didn't invent this.

Every time there is a slump, up crops "workfare" or work camps. Then war.

Whom are we going to declare war? ;)

[C. Flower]

Whom are we going to declare war? ;)

Who is "we" ?

[TotalMayhem]

You tell me, you said: 'up crops workfare, then war'.

[C. Flower]

You tell me, you said: 'up crops workfare, then war'.

Governments are trying to bring it in in the US and the UK for a start.

http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/welfare/policies-for-2010:-workfare/

It's the thin end of the wedge of a conscription system.

[Baron von Biffo]

PS workers, courtesy of their Unions, priced themselves out of the market. We can't afford the benchmarking anymore. Increases in pay, huge staffing levels and poor productivity.... it's unsustainable.

Benchmarking has been more than reversed by the pay cut and the so called pension levy. PS pay is gone so bad that some of them are entitled to FIS. You'll need to get another stick to beat them with.

[Murra]

Then they should have a proper job.

.

I agree, they should, but would they work for €210 a week instead of the dole?

[Murra]

Benchmarking has been more than reversed by the pay cut and the so called pension levy. PS pay is gone so bad that some of them are entitled to FIS. You'll need to get another stick to beat them with.

Can you give more details on the 'some'? What percentage of PS workers have to claim FIS? Links?

Besides, this is not about low-paid PS workers, it's about very highly paid PS workers at the top, and the waste of public monies which prevents it from filtering down to where it's needed most - at the frontline.

I'm first in line to criticise the Govt, the bankers and developers and senior civil servants when it comes to nest-feathering, abuse of expenses and other wasteful expenditure, and this needs to be tackled as a priority, but corruption and abuse of 'the system' in this country is rampant at all levels - and we all know this.

[Baron von Biffo]

Can you give more details on the 'some'? What percentage of PS workers have to claim FIS? Links?

About 3,000 apparently.

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/almost-3000-public-sector-workers-rely-on-benefit-pay-125725.html

Even the notoriously anti-PS Indo has spotted that some of them now qualify for welfare.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/public-sector-workers-turn-to-welfare-for-survival-2052071.html


Besides, this is not about low-paid PS workers, it's about very highly paid PS workers at the top, and the waste of public monies which prevents it from filtering down to where it's needed most - at the frontline.

What's 'highly paid' and how many are on this amount?


I'm first in line to criticise the Govt, the bankers and developers and senior civil servants when it comes to nest-feathering, abuse of expenses and other wasteful expenditure, and this needs to be tackled as a priority, but corruption and abuse of 'the system' in this country is rampant at all levels - and we all know this.

Can you give more details on senior civil servants abuse of expenses? How much is involved? Links?

[Mick Tully]

I think we should demand Senators and TD's and senior civil servants to start working for their money before tackling the jobless.

[Andrew49]

Eamon O Cúiv has announced 40,000 places on a "work for dole" scheme.
Every premise the scheme is based on seems to be nonsense.

I urge anyone involved in a voluntary group to boycott running the scheme. If work is meaningful and needed, then it should be paid.

It's a desperate move by a morally bankrupt Government, exposing the fact that it is devoid of ideas. The idea of forcing people to work for mere subsistence pay is an outrage. Fine Gael won't be outraged by this cynical FF/Green Party move ... in a way it's stealing their clothes. Time for nationwide civil disobedience I feel.

The Word On The Street:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c135/theknitter/londongraff.jpg

[Seán Ryan]

It's a desperate move by a morally bankrupt Government, exposing the fact that it is devoid of ideas. The idea of forcing people to work for mere subsistence pay is an outrage. Fine Gael won't be outraged by this cynical FF/Green Party move ... in a way it's stealing their clothes. Time for nationwide civil disobedience I feel.

The Word On The Street:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c135/theknitter/londongraff.jpg

Spot on. Love the picture!

[Murra]

About 3,000 apparently.

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/almost-3000-public-sector-workers-rely-on-benefit-pay-125725.html

Even the notoriously anti-PS Indo has spotted that some of them now qualify for welfare.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/public-sector-workers-turn-to-welfare-for-survival-2052071.html



What's 'highly paid' and how many are on this amount?



Can you give more details on senior civil servants abuse of expenses? How much is involved? Links?

From The Socialist Worker's Party Website (c. last November - can't find link right now): There are 414,223 people on the public pay roll. 15,294 (3.7%) of them earn in excess of €100,000. But 48.7% (201,727 workers) earn less than the average industrial wage of €32,000, and 44% of the total (183,629 people) earn less than €30,000. Almost 30% of the total (114,000 people) actually earn less than €20,000 a year.

If these figures are correct, then 51.3% are above the average industrial wage - what's the breakdown of this group? 3.7% are above €100k - where does that leave the 47.6% between €32k and €100k? 15,294 people on over €100k is a LOT of people.

[Baron von Biffo]

From The Socialist Worker's Party Website (c. last November - can't find link right now): There are 414,223 people on the public pay roll. 15,294 (3.7%) of them earn in excess of €100,000. But 48.7% (201,727 workers) earn less than the average industrial wage of €32,000, and 44% of the total (183,629 people) earn less than €30,000. Almost 30% of the total (114,000 people) actually earn less than €20,000 a year.

If these figures are correct, then 51.3% are above the average industrial wage - what's the breakdown of this group? 3.7% are above €100k - where does that leave the 47.6% between €32k and €100k? 15,294 people on over €100k is a LOT of people.

48.7% earn less than the AIW eh? That fairly tears the arse out f your earlier claim about PS workers pricing themselves out of the market doesn't it? And if those are last Novembers figures then that number is higher now because of the pay cut.

Now let's look at your 3.7% on over €100k. If they were all on €250k that would be a gross salary bill of €383M. If we gave them a 25% pay cut it would save €96M gross. After PAYE/PRSI/Pension Contribution/Pension Levy/Levies of around 60% the saving would be €38M. bit of a fart in a hurricane in the context of our current situation. And that figure is obviously on the high side. How long would it fund Anglo for?

You seem to have forgotten the information on senior civil servants abusing expenses.

[Murra]

48.7% earn less than the AIW eh? That fairly tears the arse out f your earlier claim about PS workers pricing themselves out of the market doesn't it? And if those are last Novembers figures then that number is higher now because of the pay cut.


You seem to have forgotten the information on senior civil servants abusing expenses.

Firstly, this thread is about the proposed 'Work For Your Dole' scheme - I was merely referring to your earlier comment. It is not my intention to derail the thread.

51.3% above AIW. There are no stats from that 48.7% as to how many are part-time. I'll get back to you when I locate other links. Am going to bed now. Some of us 'low paid' private sector workers have to work tomorrow, to keep the country ticking over ;-)

[Baron von Biffo]

Firstly, this thread is about the proposed 'Work For Your Dole' scheme - I was merely referring to your earlier comment. It is not my intention to derail the thread.

Your concern for the thread and its rails is no less noble for being convenient.


51.3% above AIW. There are no stats from that 48.7% as to how many are part-time. I'll get back to you when I locate other links. Am going to bed now. Some of us 'low paid' private sector workers have to work tomorrow, to keep the country ticking over ;-)

Sure someone has to but I can't help thinking you should have put yourself first and gone for the big money in the PS during the boom.

If you print off this post and put it under your pillow you'll dream about me. Night now ;)

[electionlit]

Aside from the rights or wrongs of the scheme, the first thing that occured to me was who would be minding children when people were sent out to work?
In my own circle I now have a good number of friends unemployed who now mind their children full time, where previously those children would have been in a creche.

[Andrew49]

Aside from the rights or wrongs of the scheme, the first thing that occured to me was who would be minding children when people were sent out to work?
In my own circle I now have a good number of friends unemployed who now mind their children full time, where previously those children would have been in a creche.

Placing unemployed people into services that work for children will require Garda clearance ... already there is a 6-month wait for that! The Government also has shut down over 25 Community Development programmes around the country .... this whole thing is meant to stigmatise the unemployed and their families.

[Binn Beal]

Would people "working for their dole" be public servants?
Could they form a trade union or join a public service union? Could they then fight for better pay and conditions?

I think what the oligarchy really wants here is lines of shuffling workers in orange overalls sweeping the roads and picking up rubbish.

[antiestablishmentarian]

Of course this is a way to get dirt cheap labour and should also be seen as an attack on the minimum wage: if people get €210 for a weeks work, whats to stop the government coming back soon and cutting the minimum wage as well? This is absolutely disgraceful and has to be fought.

[Aspro]

If O'Cuiv and his ilk want to do something useful they could stop flushing billions down the Anglo jacks and put it into the army of unemployed construction workers to fix up our schools, hospitals and public transport infrastructure.

[Baron von Biffo]

Of course this is a way to get dirt cheap labour and should also be seen as an attack on the minimum wage:

It's inevitable that the minimum wage will be cut. We are for all practical purposes being governed by IBEC/ISME and the MW is their great bête noire

[C. Flower]

It's been confirmed that people on the work scheme would be taken off the Live Register.

[C. Flower]

The Labour Party is supporting this.

[TotalMayhem]

what's that? why do i have to sign up for hotmail?

[Apjp]

But t is paid and €10.77 per hour is 25% higher than the minimum wage (€8.65).

Of course such a scheme may interfere with whatever lucrative jobs the poor critters may have on the side, but that's a different story altogether.



That we do, can't we expect anything in return? The idea is certainly better than pouring the money into black holes.

So, you want a single unemployed father of five for example, or a single mother who cannot work as she must care for children to give up time they do not have for twenty hours of unpaid slavery-which it is!-when they paid taxes all of their working lives. I can tell you have never been uneployed sir. The unemployed want jobs, not just a hobby such as slave labour to kill the time.

[antiestablishmentarian]

It's been confirmed that people on the work scheme would be taken off the Live Register.

How convenient, then the government would be able to tell us that they've taken action to tackle the jobs crisis

[disability student]

It's been confirmed that people on the work scheme would be taken off the Live Register.

Not surprising :D

Some of the CE programmes far away from the participant's home with no means of car. No travel or food expenses.


Travel expenses such as bus would eat into €210 quickly as some of the participants would be left with a lot less money in their pockets than they were getting it from the dole office.

I would call it as disincentive to work!

[Binn Beal]

Any comment from the trade union movement or the political left?

[Murra]

Your concern for the thread and its rails is no less noble for being convenient.



Sure someone has to but I can't help thinking you should have put yourself first and gone for the big money in the PS during the boom.

If you print off this post and put it under your pillow you'll dream about me. Night now ;)

Funny you should say that, as it happens I did once have a 'permanent, pensionable job' in the HSE, which I found increasingly frustrating. I know from first hand experience that you couldn't find anybody after 3.30pm on a Friday, except maybe the janitor and a few people chatting. The number of holidays, half days, days off for when the cat had kittens, sick days, etc and the slow 'relaxed' pace of life was the main reason why I left. I had more to offer than that and a conscience that urged me to quit.

Now I work for myself and employ 4 people. I work my guts out for not much more than minimum wage, and like many people, wait for my ship to come in. I get a huge amount of satisfaction from my job, I feel I make a substantial contribution to society and I'm content and happy with my life, beyond that which money can buy.

[C. Flower]

Funny you should say that, as it happens I did once have a 'permanent, pensionable job' in the HSE, which I found increasingly frustrating. I know from first hand experience that you couldn't find anybody after 3.30pm on a Friday, except maybe the janitor and a few people chatting. The number of holidays, half days, days off for when the cat had kittens, sick days, etc and the slow 'relaxed' pace of life was the main reason why I left. I had more to offer than that and a conscience that urged me to quit.

Now I work for myself and employ 4 people. I work my guts out for not much more than minimum wage, and like many people, wait for my ship to come in. I get a huge amount of satisfaction from my job, I feel I make a substantial contribution to society and I'm content and happy with my life, beyond that which money can buy.

I'd have to agree on that Murra - but you shouldn't have had to leave to get that.

I've met HSE Managers who were quite depressed and disoriented by their work lives, as they knew that they were "working" in a system that was not working, and where, for example, the structures prevented people from working together on things for which liaison was essential.

In my own PS life, I remember one occasion when five of us crept up the back stairs to a meeting room, to sit down together as a multi-disciplinary group, to secretly do a job that could not have been done without this "out of order" meeting.

[charley]

Where will the supervisers come from ,will there be a few real jobs in this as well or will it be like the ones the government rolled out in the late 70's early 80's . loads of blokes sitting in a hut all day reading newspapers and waiting for materials that don't show up.
I remember passing one of these schemes on the way to school. 10 weeks to rip up 100 yards of footpath and then relay it.
Window dressing is all this is.

[Fing Fers]

Where will the supervisers come from ,will there be a few real jobs in this as well or will it be like the ones the government rolled out in the late 70's early 80's . loads of blokes sitting in a hut all day reading newspapers and waiting for materials that don't show up.
I remember passing one of these schemes on the way to school. 10 weeks to rip up 100 yards of footpath and then relay it.
Window dressing is all this is.

Reminds me of the day I watched a group of Co Council workers spend an "entire" day laying out traffic cones / barriers over a 10 mtr section of road. Drawings and all for location of cones / barriers, I kid you not. The next day everything was gone, turns out the workers had cones etc located on the wrong side of the road, came back a few days later and carried on pretty much the same.

Whats going to happen if people dont show up for "work", if dole is stopped they'll starve. PRSI, my a***.

[Andrew49]

Where will the supervisers come from ,will there be a few real jobs in this as well or will it be like the ones the government rolled out in the late 70's early 80's . loads of blokes sitting in a hut all day reading newspapers and waiting for materials that don't show up.
I remember passing one of these schemes on the way to school. 10 weeks to rip up 100 yards of footpath and then relay it.
Window dressing is all this is.

What about the other aspect of FAS - the programmes they sponsor on Church premises with CE (Community Employment) staff and a FAS Supervisor interviewed and employed by the Church and put in charge of young girls working on the scheme. There is a Church on the Southside that had a male FAS Supervisor employed by the Parish Priest there for some years.

Where will the supervisors come from ...? December 2008 (http://clericalwhispers.blogspot.com/2008/11/fas-controversy-and-fas-connection-with.html)

[Baron von Biffo]

Funny you should say that, as it happens I did once have a 'permanent, pensionable job' in the HSE, which I found increasingly frustrating. I know from first hand experience that you couldn't find anybody after 3.30pm on a Friday, except maybe the janitor and a few people chatting. The number of holidays, half days, days off for when the cat had kittens, sick days, etc and the slow 'relaxed' pace of life was the main reason why I left. I had more to offer than that and a conscience that urged me to quit.

I've had my life saved in Portlaoise A&E on a Saturday evening so my experience is a tad different. Nice to hear you'll have a bit of a PS pension to look forward to in your dotage ;)


Now I work for myself and employ 4 people. I work my guts out for not much more than minimum wage, and like many people, wait for my ship to come in. I get a huge amount of satisfaction from my job, I feel I make a substantial contribution to society and I'm content and happy with my life, beyond that which money can buy.

I hope fortune continues to smile on you.

[Xray]

This is about getting women off the dole and back at home minding the kids. Is anyone going to pay for childminding to earn two hundred quid? No.
Therefore stay at home mums that are entitled to the dole will not be returning to the workforce and will not be getting anymore social welfare.

Scum bags.

[Murra]

This is about getting women off the dole and back at home minding the kids. Is anyone going to pay for childminding to earn two hundred quid? No.
Therefore stay at home mums that are entitled to the dole will not be returning to the workforce and will not be getting anymore social welfare.

Scum bags.

What about homes where there are two parents unemployed or where childcare is not an issue? €10.77 per hour for a 19.5 hour week, plus keep all your other benefits, plus, you can freely and legitimately work another part-time job if you get it, or do nixers, or start up your own business without having to look over your shoulder. What's wrong with that?

It's certainly much better than currently being in a low-paid job. In fact, it might have the adverse effect of having low-paid workers give up their jobs so that they can get on such a scheme.

[Xray]

What about homes where there are two parents unemployed or where childcare is not an issue? €10.77 per hour for a 19.5 hour week, plus keep all your other benefits, plus, you can freely and legitimately work another part-time job if you get it, or do nixers, or start up your own business without having to look over your shoulder. What's wrong with that?

It's certainly much better than currently being in a low-paid job. In fact, it might have the adverse effect of having low-paid workers give up their jobs so that they can get on such a scheme.

Who minds the kids? Are you going to pay a child minder more than you are paying them to go out to work or leave one at home while the other goes out? Sounds like a good reason to fake a separation to me. It is a con, they paid their PRSI and now they wont pay the dole to them. It also will be used to then drive the minimum wage down. Everyone is being picked off one by one. Give them real jobs not this slave labour.

[tea drinker]

I think we should demand Senators and TD's and senior civil servants to start working for their money before tackling the jobless.
You've certainly got a point, and we want to know who they are working for. If they are working on behalf of developers, that must be disclosed through documents or alternatively they can wear their sponsonsors like Formula 1 drivers. It would be very interesting to see who is sponsoring who!

I do support working for the dole - but not full time - but I think a bit of work keeps people in touch with society. It good to meet people in a working environment - you know what they say, it's easy to get a job when you have one, well it could be somewhat true for this as well.
It's unnatural to have money for nothing and it breeds social problems. There are worthy things that can be done by everyone, plus it reduces the amount of people doing nixers and of course the alleged "tourist dole" .

[Murra]

Who minds the kids? Are you going to pay a child minder more than you are paying them to go out to work or leave one at home while the other goes out? Sounds like a good reason to fake a separation to me. It is a con, they paid their PRSI and now they wont pay the dole to them. It also will be used to then drive the minimum wage down. Everyone is being picked off one by one. Give them real jobs not this slave labour.


Originally Posted by Murra
What about homes where there are two parents unemployed or where childcare is not an issue?


Excuse me? Leave one parent at home while the other goes out? Is there something wrong with that?

[C. Flower]

You've certainly got a point, and we want to know who they are working for. If they are working on behalf of developers, that must be disclosed through documents or alternatively they can wear their sponsonsors like Formula 1 drivers. It would be very interesting to see who is sponsoring who!


Love this :):):)

[Xray]

Excuse me? Leave one parent at home while the other goes out? Is there something wrong with that?

So if a couple are not married both can stay at home and draw the dole and mind the kids. If married one must work for that dole. Great plan, real equality.

If a man, woman, married, gay, single, black, jew or whatever paid PRSI they have an equal entitlement to the dole. It is that simple. This is to drive women out of the workforce and out of the social welfare system.

I for one would be willing to pay more tax to not reduce people to working for the dole or excluding women totally from broader society.

[tea drinker]

It is a con, they paid their PRSI and now they wont pay the dole to them. It also will be used to then drive the minimum wage down. Everyone is being picked off one by one. Give them real jobs not this slave labour.
Well, 2 things, the PRSI only goes so far, and not everyone has paid prsi in the lst 5 years, some people are career unemployed and the only way to help them is with schemes like this.
Things are so bad the gov must find ways to reduce SW bill, public sector wages and expenditure and do something other than borrowing to shore up the finances.

It sucks big time, but remember when it comes to voting who played us.
Irish people voted for quacks and chancers, there is a price for this foolishness. Have we even seen the end of clan based voting in Ireland - I doubt it.
Until people learn to vote properly we are fvcked, and probably even then still fvcked as there is very few candidates. If the guards were doing their job we wouldn't have this carry on by our Royal Family. They wouldn't have detained a "dangerous" painter, but they might act on the official reports of theft regarding Ivor.

A long long long way to go yet, and most of it is down folks!

[Baron von Biffo]

Who minds the kids? Are you going to pay a child minder more than you are paying them to go out to work or leave one at home while the other goes out? Sounds like a good reason to fake a separation to me. It is a con, they paid their PRSI and now they wont pay the dole to them. It also will be used to then drive the minimum wage down. Everyone is being picked off one by one. Give them real jobs not this slave labour.

It's not entirely inconceivable this government could get Mary on one of these schemes to mind Kate's kids while Kate is out on a scheme minding Mary's kids.

[Baron von Biffo]

You've certainly got a point, and we want to know who they are working for. If they are working on behalf of developers, that must be disclosed through documents or alternatively they can wear their sponsonsors like Formula 1 drivers. It would be very interesting to see who is sponsoring who!

Goodyear would be in like a shot for Harney.

http://freeandflawed.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Goodyear_blimp.jpg

[Andrew49]

This 'work for dole' is neither going to be productive or useful. Politicians love to tell us that we have an educated workforce. Educated enough to pull ivy off trees?

Here are the latest FAS courses available - UpSkill for the UpTurn it's called:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c135/theknitter/fun-1.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c135/theknitter/connecttwo.jpg

[Xray]

Well, 2 things, the PRSI only goes so far, and not everyone has paid prsi in the lst 5 years, some people are career unemployed and the only way to help them is with schemes like this.
Things are so bad the gov must find ways to reduce SW bill, public sector wages and expenditure and do something other than borrowing to shore up the finances.

It sucks big time, but remember when it comes to voting who played us.
Irish people voted for quacks and chancers, there is a price for this foolishness. Have we even seen the end of clan based voting in Ireland - I doubt it.
Until people learn to vote properly we are fvcked, and probably even then still fvcked as there is very few candidates. If the guards were doing their job we wouldn't have this carry on by our Royal Family. They wouldn't have detained a "dangerous" painter, but they might act on the official reports of theft regarding Ivor.

A long long long way to go yet, and most of it is down folks!

If the dole is reduced, as it will be, it must be done equally. Not populist targeting of women or couples or working class etc.

You fail to mention tax. Tax here is the lowest in the EU. 50% of workers pay no tax. Thousands of very wealthy people pay no tax. That is nuts.

Sure the public services must be reformed. When does that start?
But the idea we exclude women from social welfare to pay for metro north and maintains zero tax rates is a disgrace. I for one am sick of one group at a time being demonised and picked off for the chop. Lets us have a holistic big bang reform of society.

Change tax, SW, PS, private sector regulation, semi states all at the same time. A new social contract. No more playing us all off against each other.

[tea drinker]

X-ray I am 100% for what you are saying - a genuine look at how Ireland works, the money flows, the potentials , the Legal system, corporate law - all of it needs a full makeover.
Frankly, we have become fat, stupified and complacent. We used to be hungry, we need that again. Hungry to do it right, not just do it right for you
I'm fairly confident the party political broadcasts regarding the fall in living costs will be reflected in tax adjustments in the budget - for PAYE/Midldle class workers.
Tax increases for the Royalty? I can't answer that.

And lol at Baron Von Biffo and Andrews Gifs :-)

[Andrew49]

Work for Benefit, that's a massive contradiction. Right off the bat FF have already f***ed this plan. Idiots cant do one thing right.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c135/theknitter/motivate.jpg

[Murra]

Who minds the kids? Are you going to pay a child minder more than you are paying them to go out to work or leave one at home while the other goes out? Sounds like a good reason to fake a separation to me. It is a con, they paid their PRSI and now they wont pay the dole to them. It also will be used to then drive the minimum wage down. Everyone is being picked off one by one. Give them real jobs not this slave labour.


So if a couple are not married both can stay at home and draw the dole and mind the kids. If married one must work for that dole. Great plan, real equality.

If a man, woman, married, gay, single, black, jew or whatever paid PRSI they have an equal entitlement to the dole. It is that simple. This is to drive women out of the workforce and out of the social welfare system.

I for one would be willing to pay more tax to not reduce people to working for the dole or excluding women totally from broader society.

Sorry, but that's just crazy. Why would you pay more tax so that two parents could sit at home minding kids?? What difference does it make if parents are married or not married? Kids don't need two minders. I'm quite sure there would be allowances made for one parent who has to mind kids, but remember, most kids age 5+ are out at school.

PRSI is pay related, and runs out. My guess is that this scheme is for people whose PRSI has run out.

[ThomasB]

Eamon O Cúiv has announced 40,000 places on a "work for dole" scheme.
Every premise the scheme is based on seems to be nonsense.

I urge anyone involved in a voluntary group to boycott running the scheme. If work is meaningful and needed, then it should be paid.

You seem to miss out that this would be paid work. And the point for me would be to stop the huge rise in blackmarket work & dole fraud


Now let's look at your 3.7% on over €100k. If they were all on €250k that would be a gross salary bill of €383M. If we gave them a 25% pay cut it would save €96M gross. After PAYE/PRSI/Pension Contribution/Pension Levy/Levies of around 60% the saving would be €38M. bit of a fart in a hurricane in the context of our current situation. And that figure is obviously on the high side. How long would it fund Anglo for?

You seem to have forgotten the information on senior civil servants abusing expenses.

I get so enraged when I hear this nonsense. I agree that sorting out the top level earners wont soleve the problem on its own but it is such nonsense to then just walk away and do nothing & leave these on the high wage and squeeze those on low wage --- Typical FF response

BTW your figures are way off 250k is a gross salary €383 Bn & 25% cut would give .96 Bn probably produce a few more farts and if we got rid of a lot of the "farts" in high places the lower paid might not have so much "crap" to deal with.

Get rid of the incompetent boffoons, make the rest "EARN" their keep & we would be a long way to turning the next "corner"


So, you want a single unemployed father of five for example, or a single mother who cannot work as she must care for children to give up time they do not have for twenty hours of unpaid slavery-which it is!-when they paid taxes all of their working lives. I can tell you have never been uneployed sir. The unemployed want jobs, not just a hobby such as slave labour to kill the time.

The reality is most people are working on the side, being paid by those with money, allowing them keep even more of it so there is less to go around


It sucks big time, but remember when it comes to voting who played us.
Irish people voted for quacks and chancers, there is a price for this foolishness. /QUOTE]

The GOVERNMENT does not have any money. It gets it from you and me, those who work outside the public service & remember those building social housing & roads are linked to public service. This leaves very few who actually are producing an income that can be used to run the country.

Most people understand when there is no money thay cannot buy milk or bread, why is it so difficult to see that there is very little money left to be paid out and that it costs "REAL" money to light the streets, run the hospitals, etc and WE must pay for it, its our country so stop whining on and looking for free handouts - there is NOTHING free in this life !!!!!

[QUOTE=Baron von Biffo;61971]It's not entirely inconceivable this government could get Mary on one of these schemes to mind Kate's kids while Kate is out on a scheme minding Mary's kids.

Agreed, but hopefully both Mary and Kate would be minding, John's & Margarets as well - otherwise it should not happen - and thats where this Government fallls down miserably. We must balance the books.

In your case Baron the books would be balanced at zero but then there would be work for two other people in the local shop or restaurant or after school creche, because they werent available to do it. That would lead to a net positive affect and the creation of JOBS & JOBS is the answer to this whole mess

[Baron von Biffo]

I get so enraged when I hear this nonsense. I agree that sorting out the top level earners wont soleve the problem on its own but it is such nonsense to then just walk away and do nothing & leave these on the high wage and squeeze those on low wage --- Typical FF response

I'm shifting party more often than Eoghan Harris. In the neighbouring parish last night I was unequivocally Lab.


BTW your figures are way off 250k is a gross salary €383 Bn & 25% cut would give .96 Bn probably produce a few more farts and if we got rid of a lot of the "farts" in high places the lower paid might not have so much "crap" to deal with.

There's a difference between gross and net.


Get rid of the incompetent boffoons, make the rest "EARN" their keep & we would be a long way to turning the next "corner"

Unfortunately Lenihan wont sack a banker no matter how incompetent they are.


In your case Baron the books would be balanced at zero but then there would be work for two other people in the local shop or restaurant or after school creche, because they werent available to do it. That would lead to a net positive affect and the creation of JOBS & JOBS is the answer to this whole mess

Not quite. There are admin, training and supervision costs.

How would there be more work if the women just mind each others kids?

[Aspro]

Tax here is the lowest in the EU. 50% of workers pay no tax.

It's time to put this argument to bed because it's been the catch-call of Fianna Fail and right-wing economists since the economy collapsed to try and give the impression that low-paid workers are living the high life by being paid so low as not to enter the income tax net.

Those earning less than €18,300 per year currently pay no income tax but have to pay the income levy of 2pc.

Everyone pays VAT and excise on consumable goods and services and any increase in the cost of food, petrol or utilities is going to disproportionately affect the working poor.

Both VAT and Excise are inequitable - they are not based on ability to pay. Both VAT and Excise duty facilitate a transfer of wealth from the poor to the wealthy by charging everyone the same irrespective of ability to pay. Local charges such as the recent increases in the bin tax would be indicative of this.

Over the past 20 years the emphasis of the tax changes has shifted from direct to indirect taxes which has shifted the tax burden onto working class people and transferred large amounts of wealth to the (very) rich via tax breaks and tax cuts. Not to mention the "untouchable" sanctified corpo tax rate.

The massive transfer of wealth from working class people to the 33,000 millionaires (and billionaires) over the past 20 years has led to a situation that the gap between rich and poor is greater in Ireland than in any other country in the world with the exception of the USA.

Key point being - the low paid taxation issue is a red herring. A 4% wealth tax on the 33,000 millionaires would raise as much as Cowen and Lenihan want to hack out of the economy - and would be better in economic terms because it wouldn't cost jobs and wages thereby avoiding the deflationary effect of €billions in cuts.

Instead we have the beginnings of Fianna Fail blaming the unemployed for being unemployed, the 1980's style backlash against the "scroungers" and nouveau-workfare to force wages down across the economy - consistent with the internal devaluation process.

[disability student]

It's time to put this argument to bed because it's been the catch-call of Fianna Fail and right-wing economists since the economy collapsed to try and give the impression that low-paid workers are living the high life by being paid so low as not to enter the income tax net.


+10




Everyone pays VAT and excise on consumable goods and services and any increase in the cost of food, petrol or utilities is going to disproportionately affect the working poor.


That's indirect taxation irrespective of any income. It has affected the lower paid quite badly as it doesn't affect the wealthy ones. In other words, the lower paid have less savings and the richer have more cushion in terms of savings.


Both VAT and Excise are inequitable - they are not based on ability to pay. Both VAT and Excise duty facilitate a transfer of wealth from the poor to the wealthy by charging everyone the same irrespective of ability to pay. Local charges such as the recent increases in the bin tax would be indicative of this.

Extactly my point above.


Over the past 20 years the emphasis of the tax changes has shifted from direct to indirect taxes which has shifted the tax burden onto working class people and transferred large amounts of wealth to the (very) rich via tax breaks and tax cuts. Not to mention the "untouchable" sanctified corpo tax rate.



The massive transfer of wealth from working class people to the 33,000 millionaires (and billionaires) over the past 20 years has led to a situation that the gap between rich and poor is greater in Ireland than in any other country in the world with the exception of the USA.

That was the legacy of the PD's especially Mary Harney and Mc Dowell for their policies which resulted huge level of inequality in Ireland.


Key point being - the low paid taxation issue is a red herring. A 4% wealth tax on the 33,000 millionaires would raise as much as Cowen and Lenihan want to hack out of the economy - and would be better in economic terms because it wouldn't cost jobs and wages thereby avoiding the deflationary effect of €billions in cuts.


Well said. FF reluctance to tax them at all is huge issue for us.


Instead we have the beginnings of Fianna Fail blaming the unemployed for being unemployed, the 1980's style backlash against the "scroungers" and nouveau-workfare to force wages down across the economy - consistent with the internal devaluation process.


We including yourself will have seriously to question the media's role in all of this as they sided with FF and GP. Why did the media print FF's complaints first before us as they should be listening to the people on the ground. It only strongly highlights the closeness between the media and FF.

[MediaBite]

O'Cuiv didn't invent this.

Every time there is a slump, up crops "workfare" or work camps. Then war.
It's a real sign that the economic system has seized up and is dysfunctional.

Alarming that people can be put into childcare work - so much for the improvement in professional standards that are promised.

This whole idea stinks to hell. The dole is money is previously paid in taxes by the vast majority of people on the dole themselves. It will incense people if they try to do this - insulting and deliberately demeaning. Jesus, if Fianna Fail start to demonise unemployed people now, there will be rioting.

[C. Flower]

You seem to miss out that this would be paid work. And the point for me would be to stop the huge rise in blackmarket work & dole fraud



I get so enraged when I hear this nonsense. I agree that sorting out the top level earners wont soleve the problem on its own but it is such nonsense to then just walk away and do nothing & leave these on the high wage and squeeze those on low wage --- Typical FF response

BTW your figures are way off 250k is a gross salary €383 Bn & 25% cut would give .96 Bn probably produce a few more farts and if we got rid of a lot of the "farts" in high places the lower paid might not have so much "crap" to deal with.

Get rid of the incompetent boffoons, make the rest "EARN" their keep & we would be a long way to turning the next "corner"



The reality is most people are working on the side, being paid by those with money, allowing them keep even more of it so there is less to go around

[quote=tea drinker;61969]It sucks big time, but remember when it comes to voting who played us.
Irish people voted for quacks and chancers, there is a price for this foolishness. /QUOTE]

The GOVERNMENT does not have any money. It gets it from you and me, those who work outside the public service & remember those building social housing & roads are linked to public service. This leaves very few who actually are producing an income that can be used to run the country.

Most people understand when there is no money thay cannot buy milk or bread, why is it so difficult to see that there is very little money left to be paid out and that it costs "REAL" money to light the streets, run the hospitals, etc and WE must pay for it, its our country so stop whining on and looking for free handouts - there is NOTHING free in this life !!!!!



Agreed, but hopefully both Mary and Kate would be minding, John's & Margarets as well - otherwise it should not happen - and thats where this Government fallls down miserably. We must balance the books.

In your case Baron the books would be balanced at zero but then there would be work for two other people in the local shop or restaurant or after school creche, because they werent available to do it. That would lead to a net positive affect and the creation of JOBS & JOBS is the answer to this whole mess


On what do you base your assumption that "most people are working on the side"?

Employers can't afford to pay people off the books, or at all, at the moment.

[Xray]

Sorry, but that's just crazy. Why would you pay more tax so that two parents could sit at home minding kids?? What difference does it make if parents are married or not married? Kids don't need two minders. I'm quite sure there would be allowances made for one parent who has to mind kids, but remember, most kids age 5+ are out at school.

PRSI is pay related, and runs out. My guess is that this scheme is for people whose PRSI has run out.

So Mary has a two year old and has paid stamps and lost her job. She is married to a John. John has a job of 300 euro a week. She loses her dole.

Clare also lost her job recently as did her husband. Both are at home minding their twins. She loses her dole.

Jane is unmarried and has never worked she also has a two year old, she keeps the dole.

None of them turn up for the work placement scheme or whatever it is called.

Its nonsense. You cannot remove the dole force or someone to work for it based on whether they have a partner or not. If you provide less money than child care costs this will not work. If you exclude women with kids it will not work. It is a totally crap plan and will not get through the first week.

[Murra]

Alarming that people can be put into childcare work - so much for the improvement in professional standards that are promised.

This whole idea stinks to hell. The dole is money is previously paid in taxes by the vast majority of people on the dole themselves. It will incense people if they try to do this - insulting and deliberately demeaning. Jesus, if Fianna Fail start to demonise unemployed people now, there will be rioting.

'People' cannot be 'put into childcare'. There are strict regulations about who can work with children these days.

Some people have previously paid taxes into the system, not all have. Some have paid for many years, some for just a short time. Some people would rather be doing something than doing nothing.

[Murra]

So Mary has a two year old and has paid stamps and lost her job. She is married to a John. John has a job of 300 euro a week. She loses her dole.

Clare also lost her job recently as did her husband. Both are at home minding their twins. She loses her dole.

Jane is unmarried and has never worked she also has a two year old, she keeps the dole.

None of them turn up for the work placement scheme or whatever it is called.

Its nonsense. You cannot remove the dole force or someone to work for it based on whether they have a partner or not. If you provide less money than child care costs this will not work. If you exclude women with kids it will not work. It is a totally crap plan and will not get through the first week.

Yes, there are many permeations, but people on low income can avail of FIS, other's who have no other source of income will pass a means test, some are on different social welfare schemes which are not jobseekers allowance, such as single parents allowance, disability allowance etc. I'm quite sure a case can be made where childcare costs would outweigh any benefits from a scheme like this, but it's madness to suggest that two parents should be at home minding children when one has an opportunity to get €10.77 per hour, keep extra benefits AND be allowed to work another job or do nixers as well.

Who do you think is going to keep paying all of this increased social welfare? Where is the money going to come from to clean hospitals to prevent MRSA or to provide home help for the elderly or assist teachers with 40 pupils per class? Wake up - the money's gone.

[Binn Beal]

MURRA: 'People' cannot be 'put into childcare'. There are strict regulations about who can work with children these days.
A youth organisation I am involved in has a 12-month outstanding waiting time for Garda clearance or to put it another way, there are people supervising children who have not had any clearance for a year now.

[Binn Beal]

MURRA: Where is the money going to come from to clean hospitals to prevent MRSA or to provide home help for the elderly or assist teachers with 40 pupils per class?
Anglo, NAMA, the untaxed top earners, the exorbitant salaries from the public purse (Brian Cowan, Pat Kenny etc), the gifts to millionaires, the bankers' bonuses, the back-handers, the private-public doctors, the legal parasites, the tax breaks...

[disability student]

A youth organisation I am involved in has a 12-month outstanding waiting time for Garda clearance or to put it another way, there are people supervising children who have not had any clearance for a year now.

It's very strange indeed as i received my clearance within 15 weeks.

[Binn Beal]

I wonder do the Gardai handle these clearances locally. If so, there is a very big loophole in the system.

[disability student]

I wonder do the Gardai handle these clearances locally. If so, there is a very big loophole in the system.

Could i ask you a question??

Where did you send your clearance form to??

[C. Flower]

I wonder do the Gardai handle these clearances locally. If so, there is a very big loophole in the system.

Seeing as nothing much seems to be computerised, I wonder how they do it at all.

[Binn Beal]

It's not me personally but I will check into it and report back.

[Andrew49]

It's time to put this argument to bed because it's been the catch-call of Fianna Fail and right-wing economists since the economy collapsed to try and give the impression that low-paid workers are living the high life by being paid so low as not to enter the income tax net.

Those earning less than €18,300 per year currently pay no income tax but have to pay the income levy of 2pc.

Everyone pays VAT and excise on consumable goods and services and any increase in the cost of food, petrol or utilities is going to disproportionately affect the working poor.

Both VAT and Excise are inequitable - they are not based on ability to pay. Both VAT and Excise duty facilitate a transfer of wealth from the poor to the wealthy by charging everyone the same irrespective of ability to pay. Local charges such as the recent increases in the bin tax would be indicative of this.

Over the past 20 years the emphasis of the tax changes has shifted from direct to indirect taxes which has shifted the tax burden onto working class people and transferred large amounts of wealth to the (very) rich via tax breaks and tax cuts. Not to mention the "untouchable" sanctified corpo tax rate.

The massive transfer of wealth from working class people to the 33,000 millionaires (and billionaires) over the past 20 years has led to a situation that the gap between rich and poor is greater in Ireland than in any other country in the world with the exception of the USA.

Key point being - the low paid taxation issue is a red herring. A 4% wealth tax on the 33,000 millionaires would raise as much as Cowen and Lenihan want to hack out of the economy - and would be better in economic terms because it wouldn't cost jobs and wages thereby avoiding the deflationary effect of €billions in cuts.

Instead we have the beginnings of Fianna Fail blaming the unemployed for being unemployed, the 1980's style backlash against the "scroungers" and nouveau-workfare to force wages down across the economy - consistent with the internal devaluation process.

Brilliant post.

[Andrew49]

Yes, there are many permeations, but people on low income can avail of FIS, other's who have no other source of income will pass a means test, some are on different social welfare schemes which are not jobseekers allowance, such as single parents allowance, disability allowance etc. I'm quite sure a case can be made where childcare costs would outweigh any benefits from a scheme like this, but it's madness to suggest that two parents should be at home minding children when one has an opportunity to get €10.77 per hour, keep extra benefits AND be allowed to work another job or do nixers as well.

Who do you think is going to keep paying all of this increased social welfare? Where is the money going to come from to clean hospitals to prevent MRSA or to provide home help for the elderly or assist teachers with 40 pupils per class? Wake up - the money's gone.

You cannot get FIS if you are taking part in a Community Employment Scheme or any other FÁS schemes except Job Initiative. FIS weekly tax-free payment available to married or unmarried employees with children.

[Ecoprincess]

Eamon O Cúiv has announced 40,000 places on a "work for dole" scheme.
Every premise the scheme is based on seems to be nonsense.

I urge anyone involved in a voluntary group to boycott running the scheme. If work is meaningful and needed, then it should be paid.

Child care is a minefield and the opportunity for the wrong person to end up caring for children or the vunerable older person is madness.

this is just like CE schemes and the next thing you know the local politician/ councilor/FAS director etc; will be having work done his/her, house/garden by the uneployed just as happened with CE schemes.

The hard fact is there isnt any work and the minister should set up sorting out why people can not access funding to start their own business, this would cut down on fraud, create enterpise and jobs from indigiounus businesses and industries, which is what will sustain the economy in the long run.

[MediaBite]

'People' cannot be 'put into childcare'. There are strict regulations about who can work with children these days.

Some people have previously paid taxes into the system, not all have. Some have paid for many years, some for just a short time. Some people would rather be doing something than doing nothing.


Not sure what the parentheses around the word people is supposed to mean. The notion that people are put into childcare WORK is O Cuiv's incidentally. The regulations are not that strict - yes police vetting is required but they are not required to check overseas jurisdictions for safety checks even where it is a consideration. Aside from that there are no absolute professional training requirements for a lot of work so, yes, if O' Cuiv is to be taken at his word, people could easily be put into childcare work regardless of the relevance of their previous experience or general suitability for the work.

And since when are unemployed people 'doing nothing'. Most have families and other commitments which as any honest, fair-minded person would admit can easily fill every waking moment no matter how much time you have on your hands. It's a disgusting notion, to create a class of abysmally paid servants to satisfy the pinched and vicious prejudices of elites who never have the least fear that they are likely to be humiliated like this themselves.

[Murra]

A youth organisation I am involved in has a 12-month outstanding waiting time for Garda clearance or to put it another way, there are people supervising children who have not had any clearance for a year now.

Sorry, but your youth organisation is operating outside the law and should be reported immediately. In the space of that year, any number of things could have happened to the children/youth in your care. Please take this on board and report it to your local HSE.

[Murra]

Not sure what the parentheses around the word people is supposed to mean. The notion that people are put into childcare WORK is O Cuiv's incidentally. The regulations are not that strict - yes police vetting is required but they are not required to check overseas jurisdictions for safety checks even where it is a consideration. Aside from that there are no absolute professional training requirements for a lot of work so, yes, if O' Cuiv is to be taken at his word, people could easily be put into childcare work regardless of the relevance of their previous experience or general suitability for the work.

And since when are unemployed people 'doing nothing'. Most have families and other commitments which as any honest, fair-minded person would admit can easily fill every waking moment no matter how much time you have on your hands. It's a disgusting notion, to create a class of abysmally paid servants to satisfy the pinched and vicious prejudices of elites who never have the least fear that they are likely to be humiliated like this themselves.


It's true that the Garda vetting remit only extends to time spent living in this country and cannot verify time spent living abroad or immigrants. However, there is an onus on the employer to follow through with the checks, and if that's not possible, there is always the option not to accept any applications which cannot be verified.

[C. Flower]

Its particularly vexing that the Community organisations - CDPs - have been cut as they were giving really good value for money and making a difference to their areas.

I noticed last week that some of the local homework clubs have been "defunded". These clubs make a difference to parents and children. About the last thing I would have cut.
I'd say the Dail Bar costs more than all the homework clubs in the State put together.

[Binn Beal]

Report the Gardai to the HSE for failing to do their job? I don't think so.

As I said earlier, I will check with the people concerned for an update on the situation and will reply here as soon as possible.

[Binn Beal]

Just made some calls. Officially the youth organisation is told that vetting takes 14 weeks but the leading person says that this is far from the truth. One other individual I spoke to is waiting four months.

[ang]

ICTU think this scheme is a good idea. They don't want to see it as mandatory though:-



The Irish Congress of Trade Unions has admitted that the Governments so-called 'work for dole' scheme is a good idea.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ictu-approves-of-work-for-dole-scheme-471868.html

[Apjp]

No Td deserves above 60 k a year, and these 'experts' do this to taxpayers? I can see why so many people emigrate now again-even if you somehow find a job, you are screwed.