Terms & conditions, Job description

[Ecoprincess]

There is always talk of new political parties, new politicians that are going to change things, but they turn out to be more of the same.

What would be your essential ingredients for a new political entity? What makes up the job description and Terms & Conditions?

Eg

Salary: the same as the average in the c constituency y represented and not expenses for travel too/from work, second houses/flats accommodation etc.

Holidays 21 days - same as everyone else.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I would like to see a system whereby public representatives are paid only what it cost them to represent their constituency and no more.

I've a feeling that the reason we aren't getting good people standing for election in Ireland is because the decent ones won't get themselves involved in a corrupt system and are a little choosey about whom they associate with. And I can't blame them.

I'd also like to see the introduction of the old Egyptian system- any public representative using their position to either make a profit for themselves or pals get DOUBLE the sanction applied to any citizen caught with their hand in their employer's till.

We won't get decent high quality people applying for the job until there's a reasonable method for them to be able to hold their heads up and be respected for doing it.

[BrendanGalway]

I like the way Joe Higgins conducts his affairs : He takes the Average Industrial Wage as his Pay and thats it. It might restore a small bit of confidence to the system if more did likewise. At the moment, I would say far too many people see Politics in Ireland as a means to an End. You can grant Favours to your Friends / Allies and there is a lot of Money to be made via Salary, Expenses and Pensions. Civic Duty doesnt seem to come into it. When we stuff our Parliament with Pirates, we shouldnt be surprised when the Coffers turn up empty.

[Xray]

I like the way Joe Higgins conducts his affairs : He takes the Average Industrial Wage as his Pay and thats it. It might restore a small bit of confidence to the system if more did likewise. At the moment, I would say far too many people see Politics in Ireland as a means to an End. You can grant Favours to your Friends / Allies and there is a lot of Money to be made via Salary, Expenses and Pensions. Civic Duty doesnt seem to come into it. When we stuff our Parliament with Pirates, we shouldnt be surprised when the Coffers turn up empty.

I think that is going too far, there is no reason why a TD should not be well paid. There is every reason why it should not be full of monkeys or people who cheat on expenses etc. The wages are not the issue for me, it is who is drawing them and how they conduct themselves. Unelected members of the house must also go, it is like something from North Korea that we can turf someone out and he still gets back in.

I am in favour of appointment of unelected people to executive office but not to law making office. Laws should be indirectly made by the people.

[Baron von Biffo]

(1) If they're not being paid well from the public purse they'll be paid well by private backers.

(2) To be fair TDs don't get long holidays. Just because the Dail isn't sitting doesn't mean they're not working.

(3) If our TDs are inept or corrupt it's our fault. We pick them.

[Ecoprincess]

(1) If they're not being paid well from the public purse they'll be paid well by private backers.

(2) To be fair TDs don't get long holidays. Just because the Dail isn't sitting doesn't mean they're not working.

(3) If our TDs are inept or corrupt it's our fault. We pick them.


They wont be paid well by private backers if there are consequences that are clear and actually happen.

In my opnion public representatives need to represent in public, the house should be open. At the moment I'm in contact with our dear Govt trying to find out a very small piece of information, after having my email transfered 7 times the answer is - "no one is available as the Dail isnt sitting and everyones taking holidays" basically the country is closed for business.

I agree with the fact that we constantly re-elect the corrupt but why?

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I just think the system is corrupt and designed and carefully nurtured to remain corrupt. I'm pretty sure some TD's go in with the idea of public service but are disabused of that notion on the first day.

Example; A TD gets elected to represent a constituency. The very first meeting they get is with party whips at the Dail who explain to them in no uncertain terms that its the party they vote with or they are dead in the water.

Representation of the people is killed by party whips on day one. If the Dail wasn't corrupt then we'd have no need for whips as the TD's are officially there to represent their constituency ... not elected to parade through the directed lobbies.

People say you can't have 'mob rule' but in truth no TD can be asked to do something illegal so there's no real reason for the party whip system except to corrupt the democratic process.

[Baron von Biffo]

They wont be paid well by private backers if there are consequences that are clear and actually happen.

There are ways to benefit private backers that don't involve a brown envelope in a hotel car park.


In my opnion public representatives need to represent in public, the house should be open. At the moment I'm in contact with our dear Govt trying to find out a very small piece of information, after having my email transfered 7 times the answer is - "no one is available as the Dail isnt sitting and everyones taking holidays" basically the country is closed for business.

Well no the country isn't closed for business. The person you're trying to contact is on leave but they would be entitled to holidays even if the Dail sat 365 days a year.


I agree with the fact that we constantly re-elect the corrupt but why?

Now there's a question.

[BrendanGalway]

(1) If they're not being paid well from the public purse they'll be paid well by private backers.


Wasnt this the Justifcation for the Massive Pay hike that took place in the last Decade. I seem to remember Martin Manseragh throwing this one out, that we need to give these people a Ton of Money so as to put them above taking Bribes or Helping themselves. As the recent Ivor Calley farce has proven, it doesnt seem to be enough. Of course theres more to reforming Politics than just the Pay packet but I feel that paying our Elected Officials such incredible amounts, especially our Leader, serves to attract those who see Politics as a Gravy train. I would like to see this area reformed greatly with Massive pay cuts, Expenses only where necessary(Travel maybe) and Pensions only payable after 60.





(2) To be fair TDs don't get long holidays. Just because the Dail isn't sitting doesn't mean they're not working.


Another thing we could change about our T&Cs, keep them working in the Dail. Its what they get paid better than most of their Peers across the Planet. Looking after the Locals is the job of a County Councillor.



(3) If our TDs are inept or corrupt it's our fault. We pick them.

Some of us pick them. I agree that its up to the Electorate to Punish them, although I wont be holding my breath that the people of Kerry show John O Donahue the door for his Spending patterns.

Hopefully by the time the Election comes, enough of us will finally have Woken up to the reality of Political Corruption and its effects on a Nation. Our current Crisis did not come out of the blue....

[Baron von Biffo]

Wasnt this the Justifcation for the Massive Pay hike that took place in the last Decade. I seem to remember Martin Manseragh throwing this one out, that we need to give these people a Ton of Money so as to put them above taking Bribes or Helping themselves. As the recent Ivor Calley farce has proven, it doesnt seem to be enough. Of course theres more to reforming Politics than just the Pay packet but I feel that paying our Elected Officials such incredible amounts, especially our Leader, serves to attract those who see Politics as a Gravy train. I would like to see this area reformed greatly with Massive pay cuts, Expenses only where necessary(Travel maybe) and Pensions only payable after 60.

The increased pay was ostensibly to attract more qualified people into politics as well as keeping them straight. It doesn't seem to have been a resounding success on either ground. I don't agree that they are paid massive salaries. To put it in perspective we've had bankers paid around the same as the entire cabinet.

There's certainly scope for addressing expenses. I don't think a TD from Cork or Donegal should have to pay for accommodation in Dublin to represent his constituents but an expense system that allows the likes of James Reilly to claim €30k to stay a few miles away from home is clearly flawed.

I'm with you on the pension. The insecurity of a political career is amply dealt with via the generous severance payments. There's no justification for paying occupational pensions to healthy young people.


Another thing we could change about our T&Cs, keep them working in the Dail. Its what they get paid better than most of their Peers across the Planet. Looking after the Locals is the job of a County Councillor.

They should have some time out of the Leinster House bubble. They need to maintain contact with their constituents as well as do things like research and study policy and developments elsewhere. It's up to us the voters to ensure that they do.


Some of us pick them. I agree that its up to the Electorate to Punish them, although I wont be holding my breath that the people of Kerry show John O Donahue the door for his Spending patterns.

Hopefully by the time the Election comes, enough of us will finally have Woken up to the reality of Political Corruption and its effects on a Nation. Our current Crisis did not come out of the blue....

I'd love to see my friends and neighbours dump Cowen as well but, like you, I wont hold my breath.

[Baron von Biffo]

Another thought on this. Oireachtas salaries should not change in the life of a Dail. This would eliminate TDs voting themselves rises. If we knew that the pay for the new Dail would higher than the last we might think twice about returning the useless plonker we sent last time.

[concernedparent]

Good Idea Baron,

With a cap, in the event that the Dail is dissolved before the end of the term of government.

[musashi]

I think that is going too far, there is no reason why a TD should not be well paid. There is every reason why it should not be full of monkeys or people who cheat on expenses etc. The wages are not the issue for me, it is who is drawing them and how they conduct themselves. Unelected members of the house must also go, it is like something from North Korea that we can turf someone out and he still gets back in.

I am in favour of appointment of unelected people to executive office but not to law making office. Laws should be indirectly made by the people.

I disaggree with you here Xray, TD's wages are totemic. Giving an individual a financial incentive to represent his countrymen is wrong. It has us where we are now - our country hijacked by a posse of partisan cowboys.

[C. Flower]

Also, we CANT AFFORD IT.

Thanks to themselves.

Sorry for the shouting