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View Full Version : Cameron Announces Cuts that "Will Change The Way of Life" in Britain



C. Flower
07-06-2010, 09:28 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/politics/10250603.stm



Cameron is giving a speech in which he is expected to say the UK's economic problems are "even worse than we thought".

He is expected to say "painful" cuts to tackle the £156bn deficit will affect "our whole way of life".

The economy will dominate political debate ahead of the Budget on 22 June.


Education, Welfare, public sector jobs and wages will all be cut.

let me in
07-06-2010, 09:49 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/politics/10250603.stm



Education, Welfare, public sector jobs and wages will all be cut.

Sales of top hats expected to rise.

TaxationIsTheft
07-06-2010, 03:34 PM
The Tories are not really going to be able to improve the quality of life in Britain. Theyre stuck with a huge load of debt from the previous government and spending cuts and tax rises are the only way forward.

We might see a big wave of emigration out of Britain as people sell their houses and look for a better quality of life elsewhere. A lot of people put up with the crap quality of life for the last 15 years because their houses were increasing in value. Now that prices are falling, you will see people cash out and move to where life is better.

Iolo
07-06-2010, 03:56 PM
The Tories are not really going to be able to improve the quality of life in Britain. Theyre stuck with a huge load of debt from the previous government and spending cuts and tax rises are the only way forward.

We might see a big wave of emigration out of Britain as people sell their houses and look for a better quality of life elsewhere. A lot of people put up with the crap quality of life for the last 15 years because their houses were increasing in value. Now that prices are falling, you will see people cash out and move to where life is better.

To your flagged-up loathsome colony, perhaps? Even with the tories in power, this is still quite a civilized place, though the lack of democracy is depressing. Let's hope you chums irritate us peasants enough to bring it back!

Slim Buddha
07-06-2010, 03:56 PM
The Tories are not really going to be able to improve the quality of life in Britain. Theyre stuck with a huge load of debt from the previous government and spending cuts and tax rises are the only way forward.

We might see a big wave of emigration out of Britain as people sell their houses and look for a better quality of life elsewhere. A lot of people put up with the crap quality of life for the last 15 years because their houses were increasing in value. Now that prices are falling, you will see people cash out and move to where life is better.

Where exactly? Canada? New Zealand? Australia? Given that most British people are notoriously mono-lingual, I am assuming you are being realistic and restricting this to the English-speaking world (especially in light of the massive wave of British passport-holders leaving Spain)

TaxationIsTheft
07-06-2010, 04:10 PM
Even with the tories in power, this is still quite a civilized placeNot if you live in one of the bad areas. My friend lives in south London, and when I visit him its like visiting Lagos, Nigeria.


the lack of democracy is depressing. Let's hope you chums irritate us peasants enough to bring it back!Bring it back? When exactly did Britain have more democracy? It seems to me that its all in front of you.

Even if the Lib Dems manage to get PR implemented, it will take 20 years before that feeds into better policies and an improved quality of life.

C. Flower
07-06-2010, 04:22 PM
Not if you live in one of the bad areas. My friend lives in south London, and when I visit him its like visiting Lagos, Nigeria.

Bring it back? When exactly did Britain have more democracy? It seems to me that its all in front of you.

Even if the Lib Dems manage to get PR implemented, it will take 20 years before that feeds into better polices and an improved quality of life.

I know South London well: its a vast and diverse area. In what way do you think it's like Lagos ?

TaxationIsTheft
07-06-2010, 04:26 PM
I know South London well: its a vast and diverse area. In what way do you think it's like Lagos ?Mainly because of the crime rate, and the kind of people that live there and commit the crimes.

C. Flower
07-06-2010, 04:33 PM
Mainly because of the crime rate, and the kind of people that live there and commit the crimes.

Do you have figures for the crime rates ? South London is from my experience a nice area to live in. I would include in that everywhere from Richmond through Brixton, Clapham and Camberwell to Greenwhich.

Have you ever lived there ?

TaxationIsTheft
07-06-2010, 04:36 PM
Have you ever lived there ?Why do you ask?

DCon
07-06-2010, 04:50 PM
Even if the Lib Dems manage to get PR implemented, it will take 20 years before that feeds into better policies and an improved quality of life.

But Ireland has PR.

Do we have better policies and a better standard of life?

C. Flower
07-06-2010, 04:52 PM
Why do you ask?

I asked -



Do you have figures for the crime rates ? South London is from my experience a nice area to live in. I would include in that everywhere from Richmond through Brixton, Clapham and Camberwell to Greenwhich.

Have you ever lived there ?


You've expressed an opinion. I'm asking whether you based it on statistical analysis, or personal experience or on both?

Whatever else about Britain, South London has improved as a place to live over the last ten years. The South Bank, including the embankment walks, are a pleasure: hundreds of thousands of people enjoy the music, museums and cafés there, especially at the weekends. The Commons are brilliant too, packed out with people doing random sports and fitness stuff. Great music, clubs and street markets.

kerdasi amaq
07-06-2010, 05:00 PM
Will David Cameron do the sensible thing and pull all the British forces out of Afghanistan and Iraq? I don't think so, the Irish governments' advisors won't let them.

TaxationIsTheft
07-06-2010, 05:04 PM
But Ireland has PR.

Do we have better policies and a better standard of life?Fair point.

I think we have had some policies that were better, (which the UK subsquently copied) and some worse.

Standard of living (as measured by GDP/capita) in the republic did exceed the UK, and many people did move from the UK to the republic as a result. During the other times, when the Britains standard of living was higher, it possibly wasnt a result of good policy, but of the north sea oil or other legacies or windfalls.

On the whole, I think our PR has produced better governance to their electoral system of entrenched party power cartel. Thats why so many Brits want to imitate our PR system, but only De Valera and other power hungry Fianna Failers want to imitate their first-past-the-post system.

TaxationIsTheft
07-06-2010, 05:16 PM
You've expressed an opinion. I'm asking whether you based it on statistical analysis, or personal experience or on both?Ive already said my opinion was formed when I visited a friend in the area. How many times do I have to repeat myself?


Whatever else about Britain, South London has improved as a place to live over the last ten years.I wont demand that you put up statistics to support this, because Im not like you. Youre allowed to have an opinion without people demanding a Phd thesis as supporting evidence. You should allow me the same right.


The South Bank, including the embankment walks, are a pleasure: hundreds of thousands of people enjoy the music, museums and cafés there, especially at the weekends. The Commons are brilliant too, packed out with people doing random sports and fitness stuff. Great music, clubs and street markets.Street Markets? Thought you were against markets and in favour of a "planned economy"? Or is it the case that markets and profits are ok, when the market participants are from some favoured socialist downtrodden group. (You dont need to answer this question, I know the answer).

C. Flower
07-06-2010, 05:24 PM
Ive already said my opinion was formed when I visited a friend in the area. How many times do I have to repeat myself?

I wont demand that you put up statistics to support this, because Im not like you. Youre allowed to have an opinion without people demanding a Phd thesis as supporting evidence. You should allow me the same right.

Street Markets? Thought you were against markets and in favour of a "planned economy"? Or is it the case that markets and profits are ok, when the market participants are from some favoured socialist downtrodden group. (You dont need to answer this question, I know the answer).

You said that South London is like Lagos because of the crime rate. You haven't in any way proven your point or even made clear what your point is: is that a high or a low rate, in relative terms? What's the connection exactly? If I make statements of fact without producing evidence, I'm challenged about it. You just were, and you haven't responded.

Have a look at the NEP. Nationalisation of the main engines of an economy - energy, steel, telecoms etc. doesn't have to mean no co-ops, no private enterprise and no street markets. Lets take things one step at a time :)

BrendanGalway
07-06-2010, 05:26 PM
I wonder if this comes as a surprise to anyone who voted Tory. They are looking for 6.2Billion in cuts and we can be assured, as is happening across Europe, that Public Services will account for the Majority of this.

Too bad for the people of Britain. I wonder how many of them would think it would be better taken out of the £20Bn they have allocated towards an upgrade of their Trident Submarine program. Or the £68 Bn they spend every year for Military purposes. A figure which includes the Direct occupation of two Countries in the Middle East.

Of course Cameron is correct to blame the mess they inherit on their predecessors. What he leaves out is that they would have done no less on the Foreign Policy front. Much like Ireland, the people of Britain are offered an extremely poor choice of two parties who both lead to the same Destination in more or less the same fashion.

TaxationIsTheft
07-06-2010, 05:35 PM
You said that South London is like Lagos because of the crime rate. You haven't in any way proven your point or even made clear what your point is: is that a high or a low rate, in relative terms? What's the connection exactly? If I make statements of fact without producing evidence, I'm challenged about it. You just were, and you haven't responded.IN MY OPINION, parts of south london are like Lagos. Thats my opinion. If you dont like it, nobody is stopping you from having a different opinion. If you want to live in London go ahead. We'll be glad to have one less belligerent communist looper in this country.


Have a look at the NEP. Nationalisation of the main engines of an economy - energy, steel, telecoms etc. doesn't have to mean no co-ops, no private enterprise and no street markets. Lets take things one step at a time :)So you are in favour of street markets because the traders come from social and ethnic backgrounds you are sympathetic to. But you hate markets in energy steel and telecoms because they are too male and white, and the profits are bigger.

Its a good thing, you havent a snowballs chance in hell of getting your sick agenda realised.

yehbut_nobut
07-06-2010, 05:57 PM
IN MY OPINION, parts of south london are like Lagos. Thats my opinion. If you dont like it, nobody is stopping you from having a different opinion.

No one objects (Or even cares much) that you have an opinion, however weird or wacky it may be. but IF you want to spout your opinions on an internet discussion forum, be prepared to have them challenged, and don't get into a strop when they are.

Nobody is forcing you to post here and if you want to post elsewhere were your views aren't so closely scrutinised, ermm...
..go ahead. We'll be glad to have one less belligerent [insert label] looper on the forum.

Iolo
07-06-2010, 06:46 PM
IN MY OPINION, parts of south london are like Lagos. Thats my opinion.

I've never been in Lagos, but I have friends who've lived there and quite liked it. It sounds to be noisy, poor, lively and extremely unlike any part of the UK. One of my family lives in South London: her bit is quiet, rich and rather restrained (but not, as a matter of fact much like any other part of the UK I've been in). So are we to say that Lagos and London are alike? Only negatively, which is not helpful, surely.

I have been in both Venice and Dublin, several times each. If I were to announce that 'parts of Dublin are very like Venice' I should expect to be challenged, and to give some arguments for that opinion rather than simply repeating my dubious assertion (well, there are wet bits in both, I suppose, and I love being in either).

As to democracy in the UK, the tendency here is to have democratic surges when working people get particularly pissed off, as in 1906 and 1945. Electoral systems as such aren't what does it.

TaxationIsTheft
07-06-2010, 07:02 PM
As to democracy in the UK, the tendency here is to have democratic surges when working people get particularly pissed off, as in 1906 and 1945. Electoral systems as such aren't what does it.Whats a "democratic surge? I dont understand what you mean.

I think electoral systems have been very relevant to Britains democratic progress. For example, getting rid of "rotten burroughs" in the 19th century helped make parliament less corrupt. And I think if the Lib Dems dont get PR implemented before the next election, Britain is doomed to continued decline. Its that important.

C. Flower
07-06-2010, 09:14 PM
Whats a "democratic surge? I dont understand what you mean.

I think electoral systems have been very relevant to Britains democratic progress. For example, getting rid of "rotten burroughs" in the 19th century helped make parliament less corrupt. And I think if the Lib Dems dont get PR implemented before the next election, Britain is doomed to continued decline. Its that important.

I understand what the poster means: he/she thinks in terms of processes and change, as well as in categories/fixed concepts.

MPB
07-06-2010, 09:28 PM
Will David Cameron do the sensible thing and pull all the British forces out of Afghanistan and Iraq? I don't think so, the Irish governments' advisors won't let them.

+1

The British solution to their debt problem lies in their expenditure in Iraq and Afghanistan.

But the ordinary taxpayer will pay the bill as their is a profit for the untouchable bondholders, in war.

Halliburton made a fortune out of the destruction of Iraq, as they, conveniently won all of the contracts for the rebuild.

Of course Cheney, Bush and Rumsfelds connection to Halliburton had nothing to do with the winning of these contracts.

Why are people so stupid?

We pay 8 billion a year to political apparatchiks, appointed to Govt appointed quangoes, yet we see the disabled, the tax payer and the newly unemployed as the cash solution to our deficit problems.

Where do Govts expect this to end?

truth.ie
07-06-2010, 10:56 PM
As someone who never saw New Labour as left wing or socialist, I must say if I was a Brit I'd feel more reassured today than under the previous Government.
Within days of the election, the Tories have dropped their own wages, promised a bonfire of the quangos, named and shamed those in the civil service earning more than the P.M, and promised to tackle the growing debt problem.
In fact they've done all the things we need to do in Ireland.
Labour ratcheted up debt over the years to keep themselves popular. Mandelson and his 1 billion sterling pipedream millenium dome being one example. The rash of quangos stuffed with New Labour leeches being another. Expensive military adventures in Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia...
Now they're in debt to their eyeballs, and Cameron is left to take the tough decisions. 10 years too late in my opinion.

DCon
08-06-2010, 09:10 AM
Fitch are saying the announced cuts are not enough.

Urging an extra 1% of GDP expenditure cut

C. Flower
08-06-2010, 11:00 AM
Fitch are saying the announced cuts are not enough.

Urging an extra 1% of GDP expenditure cut

6 or 7 billion is nothing, considering the size of the British economy.

Iolo
08-06-2010, 11:57 AM
Whats a "democratic surge? I dont understand what you mean.

I think electoral systems have been very relevant to Britains democratic progress. For example, getting rid of "rotten burroughs" in the 19th century helped make parliament less corrupt. And I think if the Lib Dems dont get PR implemented before the next election, Britain is doomed to continued decline. Its that important.

The 'Reform Act' removed what working-class representation there had been, but it did open the way, in reaction, for the democratic surge called Chartism in the 'thirties and 'forties, which included some serious armed actions and frightened the bosses so much that they began to play with representation.
The democratic surge towards socialism in the 'eighties opened the way to actual democracy, including the representation of women and openness to change in Ireland, which participation in the First World War was used (amongst other ruling-class purposes) to stymie. It took nearly thirty years to move forward to the next surge. The point is that electoral systems mean nothing much while all the means of propaganda are in the hands of the very rich or setting the agenda for whatever else there may be - and take the way the fuhrer-debate stitch-up was hailed by the hacks as an example. Democracy is about what is stirring way beneath the 'official' system and its vacuous lies. I don't know what you mean by decline - not being a big military power is it? If so, roll on! Let the Yanks play that half-wits' hoohah!

TaxationIsTheft
08-06-2010, 01:55 PM
The 'Reform Act' removed what working-class representation there had been, but it did open the way, in reaction, for the democratic surge called Chartism in the 'thirties and 'forties, which included some serious armed actions and frightened the bosses so much that they began to play with representation.
The democratic surge towards socialism in the 'eighties opened the way to actual democracy, including the representation of women and openness to change in Ireland, which participation in the First World War was used (amongst other ruling-class purposes) to stymie. It took nearly thirty years to move forward to the next surge. The point is that electoral systems mean nothing much while all the means of propaganda are in the hands of the very rich or setting the agenda for whatever else there may be - and take the way the fuhrer-debate stitch-up was hailed by the hacks as an example. Democracy is about what is stirring way beneath the 'official' system and its vacuous lies.Oh right, I see what youre talking about. Although you wouldnt need these surges of popular support for reform, if you already had a true democracy. That would comprise of proportional representation in parliament. And secondly, the ability of the people to vote directly on issues that concern them, ie direct democracy.


I don't know what you mean by decline - not being a big military power is it?No, I mean decline in quality of life.

Iolo
08-06-2010, 02:25 PM
Oh right, I see what youre talking about. Although you wouldnt need these surges of popular support for reform, if you already had a true democracy. That would comprise of proportional representation in parliament..

Proportional representation is representation of existing parties, which are all fixed up already by the bosses.


And secondly, the ability of the people to vote directly on issues that concern them, ie direct democracy.

Some of our people had something like that in Chubut in the 1870's and '80's: the powers-that-be soon stopped it there, too. Only proletarian revolution will bring that.


No, I mean decline in quality of life.

As far as I can see, the quality of life here is as good as anywhere else, probably better. What are you judging by?