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View Full Version : Giving The National Maternity Hospital to the "Sisters of Charity" - Has Nothing Changed since the 19th Century ?



C. Flower
20-04-2017, 12:36 PM
In the 19th century the Irish Government provided funds to religious orders to construct "Industrial Schools" and the like, and subvented religious-run health facilities, and mother and baby homes. We all know at least a little of the outcome.

It is simply unbelievable tha this government in the 21st century proposes to give the new National Maternity Hospital to the Sisters of Charity - notwithstanding any corporate shelter it may be wrapped up in.

This article from today's times makes it clear why. A Board member and the previous Master of the NMH has spoken out about the constricted services for women provided by nun-rule.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/national-maternity-hospital-will-be-completely-independent-mahony-1.3055036

There will be a protest lunchtime today outside the Department of Health in Dublin. Over 50,000 people have signed an online petition against the gift of the hospital to the Sisters.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/dublin-demonstration-today-in-protest-of-sisters-of-charity-to-run-new-national-maternity-hospital-786468.html

The Sisters of Charity, on whose land the hospital is to be built, have never paid their agreed redress contribution up. Their numbers at this stage are few, and elderly and their alleged competence to run health services a mystery.

The land should be confiscated and no public funds put their way under any pretext.

C. Flower
22-04-2017, 12:49 PM
Just a reminder that the Sisters of Charity hocked the PUBLIC St. Vincent's Hospital to build the private St Vincents.

Why are they not in jail ?

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?15332-quot-Sisters-of-Charity-quot-Have-Gambled-St-Vincents-Hospital-on-Private-Hospital-Development#.WPtCwWe1tXA

Fraxinus
22-04-2017, 01:20 PM
If the Order is to have no influence why does this need to be in their hands?! How on earth are their snouts still allowed in public health and education... Rage!

C. Flower
22-04-2017, 01:31 PM
If the Order is to have no influence why does this need to be in their hands?! How on earth are their snouts still allowed in public health and education... Rage!

It is even worse than I thought - the "National" Maternity Hospital is also a Catholic-run "voluntary hospital" funded by the State. As it caters for the centre of Dublin there are many mothers going there who are not Catholic, and I much doubt that most who are are entirely happy with an Archbishop being head of the Board.

The 300 million we are to cough up is to fund a new "voluntary" hospital entirely owned by the Sister of Charity, on land provided by St VIncents, another Catholic hospital, with an agreement between the two that is seems may be private and not available for the public to see.

Two hundred + people turned up at very short notice to protest at the Department of Health. People are furious.

Why can't the State build itself a maternity hospital, and run it ?

The entire health system is chaotic.

Fraxinus
22-04-2017, 01:37 PM
It is even worse than I thought - the "National" Maternity Hospital is also a Catholic-run "voluntary hospital" funded by the State. As it caters for the centre of Dublin there are many mothers going there who are not Catholic, and I much doubt that most who are are entirely happy with an Archbishop being head of the Board.

The 300 million we are to cough up is to fund a new "voluntary" hospital entirely owned by the Sister of Charity, on land provided by St VIncents, another Catholic hospital, with an agreement between the two that is seems may be private and not available for the public to see.

Two hundred + people turned up at very short notice to protest at the Department of Health. People are furious.

Why can't the State build itself a maternity hospital, and run it ?

The entire health system is chaotic.

Put in the light of Sams recent post on the 1867 Proclamation declaring separation of church and state..... 150 years later and still not much progress.

C. Flower
22-04-2017, 01:44 PM
Put in the light of Sams recent post on the 1867 Proclamation declaring separation of church and state..... 150 years later and still not much progress.

According the St Vincents, they didn't even want this. The State drove the construction of Industrial Schools by giving grants to the Orders instead of running them themselves. Nothing has changed.

barrym
23-04-2017, 08:50 AM
Politics, that is the answer to nearly all the qs raised about the issue, coupled with funk. No politician will seriously raise their heads above the parapet on a) issues re maternity which have any whiff of abortion or b) discuss the role of the religious per see.

Just look at results of the votes of the supposedly scientifically selected members of the 8th amendment forum.

C. Flower
23-04-2017, 10:58 AM
Politics, that is the answer to nearly all the qs raised about the issue, coupled with funk. No politician will seriously raise their heads above the parapet on a) issues re maternity which have any whiff of abortion or b) discuss the role of the religious per see.

Just look at results of the votes of the supposedly scientifically selected members of the 8th amendment forum.

I think it is more than that - it is an aversion by FF and FG to providing rights-based public services -which are, let's face it, near-as-dammit communism :)

The "Special Vehicle Company" to operate the hospital which will be nun-run is paralleled in many other areas of the Irish economy/society.

The SBP today reports on tens of billions going from the Irish State to 19,000 "NGOs".

The SPB also says that the "Sisters" don't allow vasectomy or tubal litigation (which may be recommended for medical reasons) at St Vincents...

barrym
24-04-2017, 08:14 AM
Yes, plenty of other stuff, but the fundamentals are funk, by politicians of FG and FF. At least Labour has the courage to says it right, 8th amendment needs to be booted out and replaced with proper up to date stuff.

The other elephant is the supposed constitutional block on property rights being interfered with. Pols are **** scared of opening that can, farmers up in arms, etc.

C. Flower
24-04-2017, 01:20 PM
Yes, plenty of other stuff, but the fundamentals are funk, by politicians of FG and FF. At least Labour has the courage to says it right, 8th amendment needs to be booted out and replaced with proper up to date stuff.

The other elephant is the supposed constitutional block on property rights being interfered with. Pols are **** scared of opening that can, farmers up in arms, etc.


The role of the Catholic Church in Ireland as a 'shadow state' was in fact created by the British in the 19th Century: not at all something coming out of the Irish psyche as the Independent etc. would like to have us believe.

barrym
25-04-2017, 07:28 AM
The role of the Catholic Church in Ireland as a 'shadow state' was in fact created by the British in the 19th Century: not at all something coming out of the Irish psyche as the Independent etc. would like to have us believe.

Fintan hits the nail on the head, today's IT.

C. Flower
25-04-2017, 11:40 AM
Fintan hits the nail on the head, today's IT.

Haven't seen it. I note that the current Master of the National Maternity Hospital has asked the former one (Boylan, who has kicked up over the deal) to resign. I suspect she has no power to do any such thing and really at this stage feel she should resign as she is not prepared to stand up for her patients.

Spectabilis
25-04-2017, 02:51 PM
Just a reminder that the Sisters of Charity hocked the PUBLIC St. Vincent's Hospital to build the private St Vincents.

Why are they not in jail ?

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?15332-quot-Sisters-of-Charity-quot-Have-Gambled-St-Vincents-Hospital-on-Private-Hospital-Development#.WPtCwWe1tXA

"If you really want to be angry at St Vincent's and its shareholders (the nuns), consider this outrage. The SVHG is a private limited company with charitable tax status that used the State-funded public hospital - "our hospital" - on its Elm Park campus as collateral for the building of its private hospital and car park. In short, SVHG used a public facility to guarantee its private debt - some €118m of it and counting, all due within the next five years or more.
You couldn't make this stuff up.
As a result, it is the banks that arguably own St Vincent's. "

Dearbhail McDonald in today's Independent.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/in-the-name-of-god-we-cannot-let-this-maternity-deal-collapse-this-maternity-deal-can-not-collapse-35645823.html

C. Flower
25-04-2017, 10:25 PM
The agreement is published and of course we have been grossly lied to and still are being --- on clinical control and independence.

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Screen-Shot-2017-04-25-at-19.12.29-e1493144055102-1024x701.png


http://www.nmh.ie/_fileupload/News/Final%20NMH-SVUH%20Agreement%2021_11_16.pdf

C. Flower
25-04-2017, 10:30 PM
We should know from Savita Halappanavar's experience what this means -


providing as far as possible, by whatever manners or means from time to time available, for the health, happiness and

welfare of those accepted as patients, without religious or ethnic or other distinction

So everyone gets treated under the same (Catholic) ethos.

C. Flower
26-04-2017, 12:11 PM
Former Master of the Coombe says Noooooooo to religious control -

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nuns-should-hand-over-maternity-hospital-site-coombe-ex-master-1.3061247

Spectabilis
26-04-2017, 12:25 PM
857174436876873728

C. Flower
26-04-2017, 06:14 PM
Dearbhail also tweeted this ----

[QUOTE]PRIVATE INVESTORS are putting up €38 million for the last hospital development supported by a tax-relief scheme closed in the April budget.
Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan announced in the emergency budget two months ago that the tax break to fund private healthcare facilities would close this year. St Vincent’s new private hospital is likely to be the last such development to benefit from the tax break, which gives backers capital allowances of €388,267, over seven years, for every €100,000 they invest.
The new hospital is being built at a cost of €192 million, with €38 million provided by private equity backers recruited by Dublin firm Goodbody Stockbrokers and a €154 million loan from Bank of Ireland, which came on board a number of weeks ago.
It is understood that Goodbody has recruited most of the backers, who have to invest a minimum of €100,000 each, with further increments in units of €25,000.
The allowances of €388,267 can be written off against property rental income, which is the main incentive for private backers. The hospital should be up and running next year, meaning investors can start claiming the allowance in 2010.
The investment is locked in for 15 years, at which point the developer, St Vincent’s Healthcare Group (SVHG), buys the hospital from the investors.
SVHG is building the new facility to replace the existing private hospital at its complex at Elm Park on Dublin’s southside.
Figures contained in documents sent to investors show that SVHG had revenues of almost €365 million last year, and had a surplus of €2.1 million. Revenues grew steadily from €227.5 million in 2003, although the surplus earned by the hospital varied, reaching €5.4 million in 2003, hitting a low of €800,000 the following year.
SVHG is made up of St Vincent’s University Hospital, St Vincent’s private hospital and St Michael’s hospital in Dún Laoghaire.

C. Flower
27-04-2017, 07:17 PM
Boylan, sadly, but in a principled way, resigned today. What is the Sinn Fein Councillor on the Board going to do ? The "Green" of course voted for the deal.


http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.3063458.1493292375%21/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.jpg

C. Flower
28-04-2017, 05:08 PM
Chris Fitzpatrick has resigned from his position in agreement with Peter Boyle. Unequivocally calls for separation of medecine and state.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0428/871017-national-maternity-hospital/

https://img.rasset.ie/000df8db-614.jpg?ratio=3.14
(https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0428/871017-national-maternity-hospital/)

C. Flower
29-04-2017, 11:12 AM
Prof John Crowne St Vincent's cancer specialist wants the hospital but doesn't want the deal.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-iNfhTXUAA6wTA.jpg

C. Flower
29-04-2017, 11:14 AM
I had planned to take a look to see if the Nuns/St Vincent had already hocked the site off as collateral - I think some journo has got there first and yes, they have.

St Vincents Group is an unholy alliance of a few aul wans and people up to their elbows in making big bucks out of health.

C. Flower
29-04-2017, 12:45 PM
So what will happen to the hospital, and the agreement, if the St V /Sis of Charity go bust and the hospital site which they have already hocked is foreclosed on ?