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TotalMayhem
29-09-2014, 06:39 PM
Lenin was already dead for a decade when the "Holodomor" happened, and would have bitterly opposed Stalin's forced collectivization scheme. He was the man who introduced NEP after all.

We'll never know what Vladimir Ilyich may or may not have opposed but he was the man who introduced the Red Terror after all, now let's see how that went down in Ukraine, shall we?


At Odessa the Cheka tied White officers to planks and slowly fed them into furnaces or tanks of boiling water.

In Kharkiv, scalpings and hand-flayings were commonplace: the skin was peeled off victims' hands to produce "gloves".

Victims were crucified or stoned to death at Dnipropetrovsk.

The Cheka at Kremenchuk impaled members of the clergy and buried alive rebelling peasants.

In Kiev, Cheka detachments placed rats in iron tubes sealed at one end with wire netting and the other placed against the body of a prisoner, with the tubes being heated until the rats gnawed through the victim's body in an effort to escape.

http://i.imgur.com/VtqazYF.jpg

C. Flower
29-09-2014, 06:48 PM
We'll never know what Vladimir Ilyich may or may not have opposed but he was the man who introduced the Red Terror after all, now let's see how that went down in Ukraine, shall we?



http://i.imgur.com/VtqazYF.jpg

Worth a thread of its own and not on topic inthe contemporary thread. The events were a century ago, and during a civil war, post WW1.

Pearse Monnet
29-09-2014, 08:00 PM
At Odessa the Cheka tied White officers to planks and slowly fed them into furnaces or tanks of boiling water.

In Kharkiv, scalpings and hand-flayings were commonplace: the skin was peeled off victims' hands to produce "gloves".

Victims were crucified or stoned to death at Dnipropetrovsk.

The Cheka at Kremenchuk impaled members of the clergy and buried alive rebelling peasants.

In Kiev, Cheka detachments placed rats in iron tubes sealed at one end with wire netting and the other placed against the body of a prisoner, with the tubes being heated until the rats gnawed through the victim's body in an effort to escape.

Total, sources please.

There has always been so much wrote about the Russian Revolution by people who are vehemently anti socialist that i think its only reasonable to look for sources.

C. Flower
29-09-2014, 08:13 PM
Sources, and context.

In 1918 Russia was in post-WW1 starvation. A rat was a luxury/delicacy. Soviet Russia was in the the middle of civil war, attacked by every hostile power globally.

Context in terms of social revolution and historical context - the Cromwellian English Revolution, the French Revolution.... the former saw he highest numbers of deaths per capita of any recorded war. But how many people say: let's go back to feudalism and the rule of Kings ?

Apjp
29-09-2014, 08:32 PM
TM's just a trolling spanner with an agenda.

He does not know what history, fact or source mean.

TotalMayhem
29-09-2014, 09:36 PM
Worth a thread of its own and not on topic inthe contemporary thread. The events were a century ago, and during a civil war, post WW1.

I do not agree with this, as it was posted in response to claims that Lenin had nothing do with Russian mass killings in Ukraine. If you may recall, Ukrainians are being smeared in your "contemporary thread" as Lenin statue-toppling Nazi gangs who don't know what's good for them.

TotalMayhem
29-09-2014, 09:39 PM
Total, sources please.

Red Terror / Atrocities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror#Atrocities)

TotalMayhem
29-09-2014, 09:41 PM
A rat was a luxury/delicacy.

And a formidable instrument of torture for Lenin.

TotalMayhem
29-09-2014, 10:14 PM
TM's just a trolling spanner with an agenda.

He does not know what history, fact or source mean.

And this from the tr0ll who was calling for a "bloodthirsty mob" to throw the Fianna Fáil government to "torches and pitchforks"? You're a real p***er. ;)

I did provide sources for every fact I pointed out here.

C. Flower
29-09-2014, 10:21 PM
I do not agree with this, as it was posted in response to claims that Lenin had nothing do with Russian mass killings in Ukraine. If you may recall, Ukrainians are being smeared in your "contemporary thread" as Lenin statue-toppling Nazi gangs who don't know what's good for them.

Your view is noted.

There is more opportunity to make that case on a dedicated thread than on the busy thread on contemporary Ukraine events..

You have not made any case that events in 1900s in Russia are excuses for Ne-fascist killings in Ukraine 2014: By all means go ahead in this thread.

TotalMayhem
29-09-2014, 10:25 PM
Your view is noted.

There is more opportunity to make that case on a dedicated thread than on the busy thread on contemporary Ukraine events..

You have not made any case that events in 1900s in Russia are excuses for Ne-fascist killings in Ukraine 2014: By all means go ahead in this thread.

So you're saying the Russians ravaging Ukraine for centuries has got nothing to do with today's anti-Russian sentiment in Ukraine?

C. Flower
29-09-2014, 10:27 PM
So you're saying the Russians ravaging Ukraine for centuries has got nothing to do with today's anti-Russian sentiment in Ukraine?

Keep digging :)

TotalMayhem
29-09-2014, 10:29 PM
And the Red Terror was by no means limited to Ukraine, although they've got the worst of it.

Besides, we did discuss the Red Terror at length in our Leon Trotsky thread... you know, "shoot them like partridges."

C. Flower
29-09-2014, 10:36 PM
And the Red Terror was by no means limited to Ukraine, although they've got the worst of it.

Besides, we did discuss the Red Terror at length in our Leon Trotsky thread... you know, "shoot them like partridges."

God help, you are worrying about this back in 1918, when 21,000 are dying of want, day by day today..

TotalMayhem
29-09-2014, 10:48 PM
God help, you are worrying about this back in 1918, when 21,000 are dying of want, day by day today..

You seem to forget how we got here, or maybe you're just deliverately obfuscating the facts.

You "contemporary thread" has been spammed today with reports of Nazi hordes toppling yet another a Lenin statue in Ukraine. As much as it may hurt your Communist feelings, the Ukrainians have a long tradition of toppling Lenin statues (see my link to "Leninopad" in the other thread) and they have indeed plenty reasons for getting rid of them.

Apjp
29-09-2014, 11:09 PM
And this from the tr0ll who was calling for a "bloodthirsty mob" to throw the Fianna Fáil government to "torches and pitchforks"? You're a real p***er.

I did provide sources for every fact I pointed out here.

Not at all unreasonable given the mood at the time. There should have been some public reaction at least.

Sadly no, many of your posts and pictures are unlinked and unsourced until prompted several times we may get 1 source but not for everything you post and nowhere near everything you claim.

I accept your point on my own partial trolling back then. But I always link what I claim. Calling for tarring, feathering and some pitchforks does not require a source. Calling someone a genocidal maniac about something that by and large happened several years after they died generally does.

TotalMayhem
29-09-2014, 11:18 PM
Calling someone a genocidal maniac about something that by and large happened several years after they died generally does.

Red Terror did not happen "several years" after Lenin's death, it was his brainchild. Lenin did indeed shed the blood of a great many Ukrainians. The first thing Lenin did was to crush the Ukrainian anarchist movement. (a brief summary here (http://www.nestormakhno.info/english/how_len.htm))

TotalMayhem
29-09-2014, 11:32 PM
Not at all unreasonable given the mood at the time. There should have been some public reaction at least.

Well, there certainly was "some public reaction" in Ukraine: they have run their corrupt government out of town on a rail, something the Irish people failed to do. Now the Irish are being hailed as pencil revolutionaries who in turn smear the Ukrainians as fascist neo-Nazi hordes in the service of the US/EU/NATO/IMF. They should be ashamed of themselves. Maybe it's just the envy of notorious underachievers, who knows?

TotalMayhem
30-09-2014, 12:51 PM
Calling someone a genocidal maniac about something that by and large happened several years after they died generally does.

We can judge the leading protagonists of the Red Terror by their own words.

Lenin himself admitted, “We did not hesitate to shoot thousands of people, and we shall not hesitate, and we shall save the country.” Lenin in his bloodthirsty rage did not care if he had to slaughter a hundred million people: "May 90 per cent of the Russian people perish if 10 per cent will experience the world revolution!"

And Trotsky, who wanted the opposition "shot like partridges", said, "The enemy needs to be rendered harmless. And in time of war that means that the enemy needs to be destroyed. To which end the most potent weapon is terrorism. To deny its power is to be a dissimulating hypocrite."

For Bukharin, the Red Terror was a means to create the Bolshevik Ubermensch: "Usage of force in all its forms, from executions downwards, is the only method which can enable the proletariat to evolve Communist Man from the human material of the present Capitalist epoch."

And the Bolshies in their mindboggling ignorance wonder why people rejoyce over the toppling of Lenin statues...

TotalMayhem
30-09-2014, 02:52 PM
Worth a thread of its own and not on topic inthe contemporary thread.

I see you have also deleted the thread I have started in OT regarding the events in Hong Kong.

For three days in a row there are up to 80,000 students rioting in the city's financial district. I understand your wish to shield this precious place from discussing such outrageous anti-Communist protests hence I did post it in OT. I only wanted to beat SL to the "conclusion" that "fascist Western imperialists " are behind it. But guess what? Russian state TV (http://player.rutv.ru/iframe/video/id/894876/start_zoom/true/showZoomBtn/false/sid/vesti/isPlay/false/) have now identified the US & UK as the driving force behind the unrest and the student leaders are trained by the CIA. Told you, Nazi-America is waging war against poor China. :D :D

Sam Lord
30-09-2014, 03:04 PM
I see you have also deleted the thread I have started in OT regarding the events in Hong Kong.


Your thread was removed because it was not a serious thread. It had some ridiculously misleading title and OP about Nazi students running riot in Hong Kong. If you want to start a serious tread about the events go right ahead.




For three days in a row there are up to 80,000 students rioting in the city's financial district. I understand your wish to shield this precious place from discussing such outrageous anti-Communist protests hence I did post it in OT. I only wanted to beat SL to the "conclusion" that "fascist Western imperialists " are behind it. But guess what? Russian state TV (http://player.rutv.ru/iframe/video/id/894876/start_zoom/true/showZoomBtn/false/sid/vesti/isPlay/false/) have now identified the US & UK as the driving force behind the unrest and the student leaders are trained by the CIA. Told you, Nazi-America is waging war against poor China. :D :D

The protests are not "anti-communist" because there is no communism in China. Any assertion to the contrary is just laughable.

And with regard to the American government "waging war against poor China" this is obvious to even the most blind. The American government is determined that there will be no threat to its global hegemony from any other power .. particularly China. Hence the famous "pivot to the East". You are the probably the only person on the planet who thinks the US is encircling the place militarily out of a gesture of goodwill.

TotalMayhem
30-09-2014, 09:31 PM
The protests are not "anti-communist" because there is no communism in China. Any assertion to the contrary is just laughable.

Ah, no communism in China? That is indeed news to me. I thought the Communist Party of China is ruling-or shall we say, terrorising) the country.

But since this thread is about Communist atrocities, let me remind you that Stalin is only a distant runner-up to Mao in the mass-murder stakes.

Pearse Monnet
01-10-2014, 02:10 PM
Out of context is right.

The sentiments of White General Lavr Kornilov show the feelings at that time when the country was disintegrating.

"The greater the terror, the greater our victories." He vowed that the goals of his forces must be fulfilled even if it was needed "to set fire to half the country and shed the blood of three-quarters of all Russians." (Arno Mayer; The Furies: Violence and Terror in the French and Russian Revolutions (2002).