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riposte
04-08-2014, 06:28 PM
Are the 1916 centenary commemorations being swamped by the hype about the first world war?

Yes, the sacrifices of those Irishmen who fought in WWI should be commemorated..... and it is true that this aspect of Irish history has been neglected in the past ....... but surely we are witnessing overkill in this regard .... every Tom, Dick and Harry is jumping on the bandwaggon writing books and making programs for radio and TV .... all of this would acceptable if it wasn't accompanied by a suspicion that this is being planned to downgrade the 1916 commemoration.

A letter published in the Irish Times recently pointed out that at the ceremony at Arbour Hill to mark the anniversary of 1916 barely a mention was made of the names of the executed leaders and concentration was on on the first world war. Mention was also made of Francis Ledwidge who died in WWI.

As secretary of the Inchicore Ledwidge Society, we have commemorated the life and death and poetry of Francis Ledwidge in the National War Memorial Park for the last 19 years. We are no johnny-come -lately's to this ....... but the swamping out of the importance of 1916 is totally unacceptable to me.

Rpurfield
04-08-2014, 06:55 PM
It might sound sarcastic to say but we are still 2 years out from the centenary of the rising. There has never been a big song and dance made of non milestone commerations of the rising really. I expect it to be big news in 2016

C. Flower
04-08-2014, 07:08 PM
Are the 1916 centenary commemorations being swamped by the hype about the first world war?

Yes, the sacrifices of those Irishmen who fought in WWI should be commemorated..... and it is true that this aspect of Irish history has been neglected in the past ....... but surely we are witnessing overkill in this regard .... every Tom, Dick and Harry is jumping on the bandwaggon writing books and making programs for radio and TV .... all of this would acceptable if it wasn't accompanied by a suspicion that this is being planned to downgrade the 1916 commemoration.

A letter published in the Irish Times recently pointed out that at the ceremony at Arbour Hill to mark the anniversary of 1916 barely a mention was made of the names of the executed leaders and concentration was on on the first world war. Mention was also made of Francis Ledwidge who died in WWI.

As secretary of the Inchicore Ledwidge Society, we have commemorated the life and death and poetry of Francis Ledwidge in the National War Memorial Park for the last 19 years. We are no johnny-come -lately's to this ....... but the swamping out of the importance of 1916 is totally unacceptable to me.

Swamped, revised, misdirected, obscured, abused and misused.

There is a State strategy to attempt to defuse the memory of 1916.

Saoirse go Deo
04-08-2014, 07:13 PM
It might sound sarcastic to say but we are still 2 years out from the centenary of the rising. There has never been a big song and dance made of non milestone commerations of the rising really. I expect it to be big news in 2016

With Brit Royalty front and center :)

riposte
04-08-2014, 07:43 PM
It might sound sarcastic to say but we are still 2 years out from the centenary of the rising. There has never been a big song and dance made of non milestone commerations of the rising really. I expect it to be big news in 2016


Yeah ..... well the 1913 commemorations were a national disgrace.. marked by reductions in workers pay and the erosion of their rights.

Rpurfield
04-08-2014, 07:46 PM
Yeah ..... well the 1913 commemorations were a national disgrace.. marked by reductions in workers pay and the erosion of their rights.

I'd agree there, the year 1913 was the perfect chance to get the collective bargaining legislation done and dusted, it would've been fitting to do so.

Sam Lord
04-08-2014, 10:04 PM
The ruling circles well remember the effect the 50th anniversary commemorations had on the country and are determined that there will be no repeat. Promoting the Redmondites, Bruton saying that there was no need, etc. etc. are just the opening shots. By 2016 they will have everyone in the country thinking that instead of heroic patriots the men and women of 1916 were just a bunch of gobsh*tes. Then they will commemorate that.

goatstoe
04-08-2014, 11:09 PM
Fine Gael will be uncomfortable commemorating 1916, if they are still leading the government then they will do everything they can to intentionally make an arse of it.

riposte
04-08-2014, 11:30 PM
Fine Gael will be uncomfortable commemorating 1916, if they are still leading the government then they will do everything they can to intentionally make an arse of it.

The election must take place in February ....... so there's a real chance FG will out of government by Easter 2016. However all the decisions about commemorations and funding for them ...... are being made now.

PaddyJoe
05-08-2014, 12:14 AM
Are there actually any specific plans for the 1916 commemoration events yet? I haven't been able to find any apart from the establishment of the expert group of historians and the all party Oireachtas committee.

PaddyJoe
05-08-2014, 12:50 AM
Come to think of it Heather Humphreys is now the chair of the Oireachtas committee in charge of the commemoration. Something else that Jimmy Deenihan won't have to worry about.

Apjp
05-08-2014, 01:05 AM
The ruling circles well remember the effect the 50th anniversary commemorations had on the country and are determined that there will be no repeat. Promoting the Redmondites, Bruton saying that there was no need, etc. etc. are just the opening shots. By 2016 they will have everyone in the country thinking that instead of heroic patriots the men and women of 1916 were just a bunch of gobsh*tes. Then they will commemorate that.

What was the atmosphere like in and around 1966 and its medium term after effects? More sympathy for the North? Some mild social unrest if I remember my reeling in the years(over housing and civil issues North and South?)

morticia
05-08-2014, 07:22 AM
The election must take place in February ....... so there's a real chance FG will out of government by Easter 2016. However all the decisions about commemorations and funding for them ...... are being made now.

Do we really think they'll last till then? Mind you, pols of all stripes HATE canvassing in January, so I think we may be lucky to be rid of them by Easter.

Surely neither FF nor SF would allow the 1916 rebellion to be relegated as "unnecessary". If the fairly universal irritation on this forum is anything to go by?

riposte
05-08-2014, 12:43 PM
Do we really think they'll last till then? Mind you, pols of all stripes HATE canvassing in January, so I think we may be lucky to be rid of them by Easter.

Surely neither FF nor SF would allow the 1916 rebellion to be relegated as "unnecessary". If the fairly universal irritation on this forum is anything to go by?

Mr. Bruton is doing his best to stoke the fires of irritation.

Sam Lord
05-08-2014, 01:01 PM
What was the atmosphere like in and around 1966 and its medium term after effects? More sympathy for the North? Some mild social unrest if I remember my reeling in the years(over housing and civil issues North and South?)

Before my time and there was a whole lot of stuff going on in the '60s. :) What the 50th anniversary commemorations did was throw into all of this a significant revival in patriotism and desire to "get the job finished."

Shaadi
05-08-2014, 01:48 PM
The election must take place in February ....... so there's a real chance FG will out of government by Easter 2016. However all the decisions about commemorations and funding for them ...... are being made now.

The Dail must be dissolved within 5 years after its first sitting. March 9th 2016 with three weeks of an election campaign to follow. Kenny has said that the next election will be in March 2016. Easter Monday 2016 is on the 28th March, a general election on friday the 18th March 2016 will be sufficiently close to the Easter Rising ceremonies of the following weekend to let FG stay on the podium for the celebrations.

The damage has already been done, FG/Lab will run the event as a remberance ceremony and not as a celebration. They can't celebrate that which they don't cherish.

The Plebs will have to plan their own events, coz FG/Lab certainly won't be planning any street parties.

Dr. FIVE
05-08-2014, 03:33 PM
The concern for "retrospectively justifying violence" is highly selective - overlooking that Easter 1916 and all that followed was a product of sustained violence in the previous decades (something which the IPP were not at all removed from) and not least 1914, the militarism of imperial Europe which really put a match under the whole thing. Crucially though, this line of thinking from Bruton, Stephen Collins and others has many parallels with the denigration of 'populism' we see in the context of European austerity today and their motives should be seen as an attempt to re-centre political elites in a period that saw ordinary Irish people awakened and active like no time before or since.

C. Flower
05-08-2014, 03:57 PM
The Dail must be dissolved within 5 years after its first sitting. March 9th 2016 with three weeks of an election campaign to follow. Kenny has said that the next election will be in March 2016. Easter Monday 2016 is on the 28th March, a general election on friday the 18th March 2016 will be sufficiently close to the Easter Rising ceremonies of the following weekend to let FG stay on the podium for the celebrations.

The damage has already been done, FG/Lab will run the event as a remberance ceremony and not as a celebration. They can't celebrate that which they don't cherish.

The Plebs will have to plan their own events, coz FG/Lab certainly won't be planning any street parties.


The commemoration of 1798 was largely 'bottom up' - thousands of men and women drilled with pikes for months :) - pieces of public sculpture went up wherever the pikemen had been. There was a mass event in O'Connell Street not televised by RTE.

I hope I will be proved wrong, but I don't think Sinn Fein will run with this beyond member events. They are committed to the GFA which means massage of history.

It needs people to start now on small local projects, then it would take off.

riposte
05-08-2014, 04:15 PM
Kenny has said that the next election will be in March 2016.



I've heard Kenny say the government will run until 2016 ....... I've never heard him say March 2016 .. can you reference that Shaadi.

riposte
05-08-2014, 04:49 PM
The commemoration of 1798 was largely 'bottom up' - thousands of men and women drilled with pikes for months :) - pieces of public sculpture went up wherever the pikemen had been. There was a mass event in O'Connell Street not televised by RTE.

I was the organiser of the Dublin 98 Committee and I got plaques put up to lord Edward Fitzgerald in Thomas Street and at St. Werburgh's Church nad to The Sheares brothers at St. Michin's Church in Church Street. In 1996 when the Committee was setup by Dick Roche in the Tailor's Hall Averil Doyle who was the Minister in charge of Commemorations said the there should be no empahasis on pikes ... and we should not use pikes on our literature. I kid you not. She spent most of her budget for commemerations on The 150th anniversary of Famine and said she had very little left for 1798 Commemorations. What money she did spend went to Wexford . The Dublin Committee got 5,000 euro in DECEMBER 1998 ... when all the event planned were over.

The plaques were paid for Dublin Tourism ...... only after I got the new Minister Jim McDaid in 1998 to intervene .. when Dublin Tourism refused to put up plaques "to religious or political figures."




I hope I will be proved wrong, but I don't think Sinn Fein will run with this beyond member events. They are committed to the GFA which means massage of history.

I can assure now that Sinn Feinn will organise a cmmemoration of 1916 that will blow anything the government does out of the water ...... they'll bus half a million down from the north . especially if the people of the south are still wearing their blue shirts after the next 2 years of WWI propaganda.



It needs people to start now on small local projects, then it would take off.

We in our area will be making plans to celebrate the fight of those who fought in the South Dublin Union (the site of the new Children's Hospital) . the largest field of battle and the one site where the British Army made no inroads whatever.

http://www.politicalworld.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=814&d=1407253659
http://www.politicalworld.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=816&d=1407255395

Shaadi
05-08-2014, 05:03 PM
I've heard Kenny say the government will run until 2016 ....... I've never heard him say March 2016 .. can you reference that Shaadi.
TAOISEACH ENDA KENNY has indicated that the next general election will be held in March 2016 when the current coalition government runs its course.

The March date is based on Kenny stating in Killenard on the 17th September 2013 that the next election would be in March 2016, but Kenny and FG were also trying to say the next general election will be on the 8th April 2016. I think the 18th March 2016 gives FG the spoiler they want without making them look like complete aholes.

http://www.thejournal.ie/general-election-today-poll-1086609-Sep2013/


The current legal position is that the Dáil must be dissolved no later than Tuesday 9 March 2016, and the next general election must take place no later than Saturday 3 April 2016.[nb 3][nb 4]

Taoiseach Enda Kenny suggested at a press conference in September 2013 that the next election would be in March 2016.[4][nb 5] This was in the context of speculation that the Labour Party was unhappy with the coalition government's progress and might consider withdrawing and forcing an early election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Irish_general_election


FINE Gael is already planning the date of the next general election to ensure the party is still in office for the 100th anniversary of the Easter Rising.

Party strategists have worked out the actual dates for a general election campaign by stretching the rules to the limit, the Irish Independent understands.

Although the Labour Party is deliberately casting doubt over the future of the Government, their coalition partners are looking ahead to April 8, 2016 as polling day in the next general election.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fine-gael-plans-date-for-next-general-election-29051657.html#sthash.1wOrwWoF.dpuf

Saoirse go Deo
05-08-2014, 06:00 PM
A lot of people are saying he will call it in June of next year.

Shaadi
05-08-2014, 06:30 PM
A lot of people are saying he will call it in June of next year.That would make sense if they were trying to stay ahead of a growing SF and a FF not quite recovered. Watch out for an apparently soft budget and a tsunami of good news, because going to the country as things stand now would destroy both FG and Labour.

I don't think they have the emotional intelligence to pull off a snap election successfully.

C. Flower
05-08-2014, 09:58 PM
I was the organiser of the Dublin 98 Committee and I got plaques put up to lord Edward Fitzgerald in Thomas Street and at St. Werburgh's Church nad to The Sheares brothers at St. Michin's Church in Church Street. In 1996 when the Committee was setup by Dick Roche in the Tailor's Hall Averil Doyle who was the Minister in charge of Commemorations said the there should be no empahasis on pikes ... and we should not use pikes on our literature. I kid you not. She spent most of her budget for commemerations on The 150th anniversary of Famine and said she had very little left for 1798 Commemorations. What money she did spend went to Wexford . The Dublin Committee got 5,000 euro in DECEMBER 1998 ... when all the event planned were over.

The plaques were paid for Dublin Tourism ...... only after I got the new Minister Jim McDaid in 1998 to intervene .. when Dublin Tourism refused to put up plaques "to religious or political figures."

I can assure now that Sinn Feinn will organise a cmmemoration of 1916 that will blow anything the government does out of the water ...... they'll bus half a million down from the north . especially if the people of the south are still wearing their blue shirts after the next 2 years of WWI propaganda.

We in our area will be making plans to celebrate the fight of those who fought in the South Dublin Union (the site of the new Children's Hospital) . the largest field of battle and the one site where the British Army made no inroads whatever.

http://www.politicalworld.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=814&d=1407253659
http://www.politicalworld.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=816&d=1407255395

Had a good laugh about Averil Doyle and the pikes :)

Well done to yourselves - so are those Dublin plaques bristling with pikes ? All the Wexford memorials are. What else would you put on them :)

riposte
05-08-2014, 10:14 PM
Had a good laugh about Averil Doyle and the pikes :)

Well done to yourselves - so are those Dublin plaques bristling with pikes ? All the Wexford memorials are. What else would you put on them :)

The problem was .....as Eamon MacThomais explained ..... in 1798 Dublin was the dog that didn't bark.

The Easter Rising in 1916 was seen as Dublin's act of contrition ....for it's failure to turn up in 1798.

C. Flower
05-08-2014, 10:21 PM
The problem was .....as Eamon MacThomais explained ..... in 1798 Dublin was the dog that didn't bark.

The Easter Rising in 1916 was seen as Dublin's act of contrition ....for it's failure to turn up in 1798.

Well, Wexford turned up in force in 1998. Better late than never.

morticia
05-08-2014, 10:32 PM
The Easter Rising in 1916 was seen as Dublin's act of contrition ....for it's failure to turn up in 1798.

Well, it was a good one. O'Connell St still has its bullet holes to prove it.

riposte
05-08-2014, 10:55 PM
Well, Wexford turned up in force in 1998. Better late than never.


Wexford declared itself a Republic.....in 1798

Richardbouvet
06-08-2014, 02:07 PM
Riposte, my grandad fought in the South Dublin Union. I have been looking, so far without success, for the diary he kept during the fighting. In any case, I hope you keep people posted on the commemoration.

Saoirse go Deo
06-08-2014, 05:31 PM
The problem was .....as Eamon MacThomais explained ..... in 1798 Dublin was the dog that didn't bark.

The Easter Rising in 1916 was seen as Dublin's act of contrition ....for it's failure to turn up in 1798.

But the Dubs made an effort in 1803.

riposte
06-08-2014, 06:13 PM
But the Dubs made an effort in 1803.

Broke Robert Emmet's heart more like.