We’ll Hit The Road, Warn Firms

[ang]

All the money that was available throughout the "celtic tiger" and we still can't provide infrastructure to support growth and we now face losing jobs because of it:-


Multinational companies in the west have warned that “appalling” road conditions are threatening the future of their businesses in Ireland.

Coca-Cola in Sligo, Baxter in Castlebar, Hollister in Mayo and Allergan in Westport have told the government that they may have to cut jobs if €220m is not spent improving the N5, a 134km national route running through Longford, Roscommon and Mayo.

A spokesman for the four firms said they were “embarrassed” by the condition of the road during visits by senior staff from their international headquarters in America.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7120784.ece

[greengoose]

All the money that was available throughout the "celtic tiger" and we still can't provide infrastructure to support growth and we now face losing jobs because of it:-



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7120784.ece

Are we no longer the envy of Europe with our Celtic Tiger and our economy awash with money. Reality is coming along to bite us in the arse!

[Gruffalo]

Wow, this is a big issue. The quality of infrastructure in this country is piss poor and now we are finally seeing the effects. Infrastructure is a key factor for many businesses when deciding where to locate so we need to get on top of this or there will be many more businesses around the country making similar announcements.

[greengoose]

Wow, this is a big issue. The quality of infrastructure in this country is piss poor and now we are finally seeing the effects. Infrastructure is a key factor for many businesses when deciding where to locate so we need to get on top of this or there will be many more businesses around the country making similar announcements.

Infrastructure is only part of the issue. Location is another. When the big boys come to town they expect something better than hicksville. What have we got in the far off places? Low quality pubs and zero night life. Go figure!

[Gruffalo]

Infrastructure is only part of the issue. Location is another. When the big boys come to town they expect something better than hicksville. What have we got in the far off places? Low quality pubs and zero night life. Go figure!

What a stupid comment.

You are just being another 'Keep it in West Britain' clown. These people come and view the location before they make their decision or are you stupid enough to think that they dont. Obviously the location met their needs when they decided to locate. They have clearly stated that the road is an issue but where apart from your warped mind did they mention hicksville?

[greengoose]

What a stupid comment.

You are just being another 'Keep it in West Britain' clown. These people come and view the location before they make their decision or are you stupid enough to think that they dont. Obviously the location met their needs when they decided to locate. They have clearly stated that the road is an issue but where apart from your warped mind did they mention hicksville?

Easy on with the clown comments. They are more apt in your case. One might like to bow to your superior wisdom if one had an inkling that you had any in the first instance.

[Gruffalo]

Easy on with the clown comments. They are more apt in your case. One might like to bow to your superior wisdom if one had an inkling that you had any in the first instance.

Well you have shown that you cannot read so you would have no idea whether I have any wisdom or not. You are quite clearly being a clown.

Now, I will ask you again, where in that article do any of the companies mention "hicksville"?

Where do they state that nightlife is a key factor when they are deciding where to locate?

We are told quite clearly that the issue is the road so why do you think you know better than any of them?

Simple, because you are being a clown.

[ang]

Where did the money go? We got a lot of EU grants towards road programmes, we had developer levies etc. this was all supposed to be an investment in our future yet we don't have the infrastructure to develop further growth in our hour of need.

Who will take responsibility ?

[C. Flower]

There've been a good number of international studies over the years that have shown the main reason for multi national companies setting up production in Ireland is the low corporation tax rate. Anyone who set up a factory in Roscommon without first having checked out the road connections wouldn't last long in business.

I'm wondering why these firms have suddenly discovered their roads are bad? If you pay a very low rate of tax, why would you expect first rate infrastructure ?

A lot of roads have been built in the last ten years. The problem is that they were built without cost being taken into account and the money has run out leaving big gaps in the system. Where they were built through Public Private Partnerships, we'll be paying for them at the tolls for decades to come.

The 20th century strategy of spreading industry right across the country, and paying IDA incentive grants to encourage firms to locate in remote places with poor infrastructure, was much loved by politicians who could tell voters that they had "got them a factory". This isn't allowed any more by the EU and a lot of that generation of factories closed in the last ten years due to competition from cheaper locations eastern europe and the far east. It was much easier to attract in US firms than encourage Irish ones to develop, so we have very little indigenous industry.
The real basis of the Irish boom (real boom) of the late 1990s and early 2000s was the arrival of the US IT industry.

Lack of broadband and poor broadband speeds has been far more damaging to Ireland than bad roads. That, and short supply of IT graduates and the poor quality of some IT courses. CEOs of IT companies have been warning for the last 10 years that these are deal breakers for them. The Government's response has been to leave it largely to the open market - and Ireland is simply too small a market to have attracted the scale of investment needed. It should have been done in the way we did Rural Electrification in the 1950s.

One of the results of any future bailout is likely to be the end of Ireland's low rate of Corporation tax - Germany has made this very clear. We are going to have to fight tooth and nail to create conditions in which foreign industry and local industry can survive and prosper. Peripheral countries in the EU need to group together and resist imposition of policy by the powerful central economies that allows them access to our markets but won't allow us to do what's need to create a genuinely level playing pitch. Our broadband has got better, in patches, but as a small Island with IT as a crucial part of our economy, we need to make it the best in the world.

[Binn Beal]

Sorry to intrude in your slagging match but if it wasn't the roads, it would be something else. These multinational companies can now find better deals elsewhere, so they're off and won't be back.
Instead of competing to get a few crumbs from them, we could build on our own resources - if we had a government that believed in development for the people.
Eventually, we are going to have to go that way, building from the bottom up, using whatever natural resources we have left with the people who live here.

[C. Flower]

Sorry to intrude in your slagging match but if it wasn't the roads, it would be something else. These multinational companies can now find better deals elsewhere, so they're off and won't be back.
Instead of competing to get a few crumbs from them, we could build on our own resources - if we had a government that believed in development for the people.
Eventually, we are going to have to go that way, building from the bottom up, using whatever natural resources we have left with the people who live here.

There's no reason why we can't have both international and Irish firms here, if we use our resources well.

Even Irish firms will leave Ireland (I've seen this happen) if conditions aren't right for them.

It's a globalised economy now, and that geni is never going to go back into the bottle.

[BrendanGalway]

There've been a good number of international studies over the years that have shown the main reason for multi national companies setting up production in Ireland is the low corporation tax rate. Anyone who set up a factory in Roscommon without first having checked out the road connections wouldn't last long in business.

I'm wondering why these firms have suddenly discovered their roads are bad? If you pay a very low rate of tax, why would you expect first rate infrastructure ?

A lot of roads have been built in the last ten years. The problem is that they were built without cost being taken into account and the money has run out leaving big gaps in the system. Where they were built through Public Private Partnerships, we'll be paying for them at the tolls for decades to come.

The 20th century strategy of spreading industry right across the country, and paying IDA incentive grants to encourage firms to locate in remote places with poor infrastructure, was much loved by politicians who could tell voters that they had "got them a factory". This isn't allowed any more by the EU and a lot of that generation of factories closed in the last ten years due to competition from cheaper locations eastern europe and the far east. It was much easier to attract in US firms than encourage Irish ones to develop, so we have very little indigenous industry.
The real basis of the Irish boom (real boom) of the late 1990s and early 2000s was the arrival of the US IT industry.

Lack of broadband and poor broadband speeds has been far more damaging to Ireland than bad roads. That, and short supply of IT graduates and the poor quality of some IT courses. CEOs of IT companies have been warning for the last 10 years that these are deal breakers for them. The Government's response has been to leave it largely to the open market - and Ireland is simply too small a market to have attracted the scale of investment needed. It should have been done in the way we did Rural Electrification in the 1950s.

One of the results of any future bailout is likely to be the end of Ireland's low rate of Corporation tax - Germany has made this very clear. We are going to have to fight tooth and nail to create conditions in which foreign industry and local industry can survive and prosper. Peripheral countries in the EU need to group together and resist imposition of policy by the powerful central economies that allows them access to our markets but won't allow us to do what's need to create a genuinely level playing pitch. Our broadband has got better, in patches, but as a small Island with IT as a crucial part of our economy, we need to make it the best in the world.

Excellent post!

Just to expand on your point about Low Corporation tax bringing US IT firms here. Dont forget that in the case of these large Multi-national firms (one of which I work for) the IDA will also contribute towards the cost of their employees wages. I cant give a definite figure for this, any evidence I have is anecdotal. I have met people who have reason to believe that, depending on the year that they were hired, they could be subsidized by anything between 25-50% by the IDA.

People should also be under no doubt whatsoever that these companies only come here for the Low Corpo tax. Our Third-world infrastructure did not appear out of nowhere, They were well aware of how bad things were and I doubt these people, who have spent years if not decades negotiating around the world, put little faith in the promises of a shyster like Bertie Ahern. Companies like these are Multi-nationals in the true sense of the world. They see things from a Gloabl perspective as if they were looking down at us from the ISS. They do not have Loyalty to any Nation or People. Their Headquarters take decisions to move Production where its cheapest to do so and expect reasonable Quality. Right now, thats Ireland.

Be warned though. I only have my job because someone in the US lost theirs. Comparing notes, I make just 33% of their final wage before they were "Resource Actioned". Although based in the US, my employer now has most of its workforce and Profits outside of its home country. And the exact same thing happening here only at a slower pace. We work closely with Eastern countries and I can see that over the last few years, our eastern divisions are becoming quite good at what they do. They cost less than us and their nations are unemcumbered by such red-tape as Employee rights, fair working conditions and Holidays. They also have better IT infrastructure.

If we become more hassle than we are worth, Ireland gets "Resource Actioned". Thanks for all your work. Sorry it worked out like this. Best of luck. Think of it as a factory line, rolling from West to East. Going where the most money is made. This is Globalisation. Capital has no Borders, it goes where it wants. Your family and mortgage be damned.

[Gruffalo]

[QUOTE]There've been a good number of international studies over the years that have shown the main reason for multi national companies setting up production in Ireland is the low corporation tax rate. Anyone who set up a factory in Roscommon without first having checked out the road connections wouldn't last long in business.

Low corporation tax is definitely the key reason. However, once a business is in the country it does need to be able to take the product(s) to market.

I am sure that these businesses did take a good look at the roads but most of these companies have been here for a while and the roads have deteriorated and traffic levels grown in that time. However, the piece in the op claims that one company is having to spend a large amount on extra packaging just to cope with the journey to Dublin. If true that is a disgrace, an unnecessary business expense and a highly legitimate complaint.


I'm wondering why these firms have suddenly discovered their roads are bad? If you pay a very low rate of tax, why would you expect first rate infrastructure ?

I dont think that that is a fair comment Cactus. We have a right to expect proper levels of infrastructure. The money for infrastructure comes from the entire taxation system not just Corporation Tax.


A lot of roads have been built in the last ten years. The problem is that they were built without cost being taken into account and the money has run out leaving big gaps in the system.

Very true but what most people fail to notice is that at the same time IÉ were allowed to destroy the rail freight business so there is no alternative too.


Where they were built through Public Private Partnerships, we'll be paying for them at the tolls for decades to come.

In fairness, that is standard practice and can only done where alternative routes are available.


The 20th century strategy of spreading industry right across the country, and paying IDA incentive grants to encourage firms to locate in remote places with poor infrastructure, was much loved by politicians who could tell voters that they had "got them a factory". This isn't allowed any more by the EU and a lot of that generation of factories closed in the last ten years due to competition from cheaper locations eastern europe and the far east. It was much easier to attract in US firms than encourage Irish ones to develop, so we have very little indigenous industry.
The real basis of the Irish boom (real boom) of the late 1990s and early 2000s was the arrival of the US IT industry.

All areas of the country are entitled to employent opportunities but there does need to be proper planning involved. People in Mayo and Roscommon are entitled to employment every bit as much as the people in Dublin and while IT may be big in the cities, in rural areas, factories are still a major source of employment.



Lack of broadband and poor broadband speeds has been far more damaging to Ireland than bad roads.

That depends where you live. Broadband is a major issue but if you live outside of the cities then roads are a major issue.


That, and short supply of IT graduates and the poor quality of some IT courses. CEOs of IT companies have been warning for the last 10 years that these are deal breakers for them. The Government's response has been to leave it largely to the open market - and Ireland is simply too small a market to have attracted the scale of investment needed. It should have been done in the way we did Rural Electrification in the 1950s.

IT is not the only industry. Green energy is another one which we could be a success at and there are some others but you are right the Govt needs to get involved and stop sitting on the sideline.


One of the results of any future bailout is likely to be the end of Ireland's low rate of Corporation tax - Germany has made this very clear.

Have you a link to this? I have not actually read it. I know the Germans dont like our tax rate though.


We are going to have to fight tooth and nail to create conditions in which foreign industry and local industry can survive and prosper. Peripheral countries in the EU need to group together and resist imposition of policy by the powerful central economies that allows them access to our markets but won't allow us to do what's need to create a genuinely level playing pitch. Our broadband has got better, in patches, but as a small Island with IT as a crucial part of our economy, we need to make it the best in the world.

I see one issue behind all of this, our amazing inferiority complex. We simply do not believe that we are good enough at anything. This can be seen in all aspects of Irish life, from our dependence on foreign industry to our desire to lose our own language and culture. We don not just need to smash our political system. We also need to smash our mentality.

[Slim Buddha]

It has been government policy to worship at the altar of FDI at the expense of domestic industry since 1997. So hamfistedly and ineptly has this policy been implemented, the consequences are only been seen now. But what can anybody expect when policy has, since 1997, been in the hands to two women who never worked in their lives and two education sector public servants from Cork?? Those appointments to that department encapsulates how serious or otherwise we are at developing a coherent, integrated, long-term industrial and enterprise policy.

[Gruffalo]

[QUOTE]It has been government policy to worship at the altar of FDI at the expense of domestic industry since 1997.

FDI has been good for Ireland but it never should have been the only option. Domestic businesses should have received proper investment. I think the pandering to the PD's had a lot to do with this. The right wing do not care where the tax comes from as long as it comes. It doesn't matter that it was either borrowed or taken out of the country.


So hamfistedly and ineptly has this policy been implemented, the consequences are only been seen now. But what can anybody expect when policy has, since 1997, been in the hands to two women who never worked in their lives and two education sector public servants from Cork?? Those appointments to that department encapsulates how serious or otherwise we are at developing a coherent, integrated, long-term industrial and enterprise policy.

I really do not see how you can single out Cork. We had one Taoiseach from Dublin who was a disaster, another one from Offaly who is a bigger disaster, opposition leaders from Galway and Mayo who have no polices other than to call for a General election and so on and so on. The entire system is wrecked no matter where the people came from.

[Art]

I heard that about 10 years ago if a foreign multinational was considering locating in the West of Ireland that the IDA would collect them in Dublin airport and fly them in a helicopter to the proposed location over the N4 and show them the road from above. The road seemed more impressinve from the air- you couldn't see the crap surface quality. Dont know how true this is but it sounds about right. Its a motorway now so they can drive them now.

[truth.ie]

Maybe they were embarrased by the fact they couldn't stop for a piss or a coffee on the motorway.
I'd say Coca Cola bigwigs from America have seen worse roads than Sligo considering they have bases of manipulation in every Third World country there is.
Anyway shouldn't they send their supplies via the Dublin-Sligo rail-link for efficiency.

[Gruffalo]

Maybe they were embarrased by the fact they couldn't stop for a piss or a coffee on the motorway.
I'd say Coca Cola bigwigs from America have seen worse roads than Sligo considering they have bases of manipulation in every Third World country there is.
Anyway shouldn't they send their supplies via the Dublin-Sligo rail-link for efficiency.

They cannot do that because our ******** of a Government allowed CIÉ to run down the railfreight business. There is feck all freight left on the railways.

[truth.ie]

They cannot do that because our ******** of a Government allowed CIÉ to run down the railfreight business. There is feck all freight left on the railways.
Get them all on the E.U financed toll roads, eh?

[Gruffalo]

Get them all on the E.U financed toll roads, eh?

Something like that.

[eejoynt]

"Coca-Cola in Sligo, Baxter in Castlebar, Hollister in Mayo and Allergan in Westport "

Coca Cola is in Ballina- typical Murdoch press recycling press releases

Coca Coal and Baxter have recently started to use rail for export via the Ports of Waterford and Dublin

[My Nuclear Tomahawk]

Wow, this is a big issue. The quality of infrastructure in this country is piss poor and now we are finally seeing the effects. Infrastructure is a key factor for many businesses when deciding where to locate so we need to get on top of this or there will be many more businesses around the country making similar announcements.


This is a good one gruffalo.
When you consider that during the Celtic Tiger we had stress in properity, real stress, traffic in Dublin was very bad indeed. Hugely stressful, M5o toll plaza was a nightmare which effected all the routes around the capital, directly or indirectly. Just forget about getting around and keeping on schedule with the unpredictability of it all. Every morning some phallus headed ninkumpoop would stuff his merc into the Beamer ahead on some road and usually the one you were on.

Now thats all over and what have we got? Stress in poverty. Bastardos!

Poor infrastructure then and poor infrastructure now. We were robbed. And we are still being robbed by the mafia government.

[Priobhaideach]

I don't know what those firms are so worried about. The plague of potholes is only starting to take hold everywhere - they ain't seen nothing yet.

[Fing Fers]

All the money that was available throughout the "celtic tiger" and we still can't provide infrastructure to support growth and we now face losing jobs because of it:-



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7120784.ece

So much for joining the EU. Taking a lot, giving very little.

[Fing Fers]

I don't know what those firms are so worried about. The plague of potholes is only starting to take hold everywhere - they ain't seen nothing yet.

I'll take some pictures nasty potholes tomorrow, shocking road condition at a junction just off the N2.