I want an Irish General Election Yesterday !!

[ThomasB]

Call for a General Election in Ireland (http://www.facebook.com/generalelection) now passed 5,000 members.

The rich do pay a lot of the tax, 26 -27.5%. which BTW is not ALL.
48% of earners cannot afford to pay tax another
40% won't earn enough to have the privilege of paying the high rate of tax. That means...

88% of income earners earn below €36,000 per year.

This is in comparison with

0.5% that earned over 7 Billion, which on average means
after 1 month, in 'their' pocket they have what 88% will take a whole year to earn,
or after 3 years they will have earned a lifetimes wages.

Lets not get distracted by averages and remember that the
Bankers were earning 2-4 Million, which is 1-2 generations wages.

And let’s not forget those that managed to avoid tax altogether,
e.g. the developer reported to have earned over 12mn (this is from memory, and will stand corrected)
which is 7 generations income for 88% of countries income earners.

I do find it obscene that,

0.5% are being bailed out by 100% of the people

..... and it will be passed on for generations to come !!!

If you are happy with that..... then stay silent, if not, write, speak to your TD Today !!! and....

MAKE NOISE on 8th May 2010 @ 12 noon

more facts and figures here (http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/07/28/a-little-quiz-on-irelands-income-tax/)

[C. Flower]

Good facts and figures. Will you be going on the march on 11th ?

[ang]

Good to see Cathal getting so much support considering he started this off on his own.

[ThomasB]

Good facts and figures. Will you be going on the march on 11th ?

I support any reasonable means to bring this country to a place I would be happy to invite people to live in and rear children !!

PS, this is not to suggest I am a socialist (which I am not!!), I believe in people being allowed earn more if they risk and work more. But I am not in favour of bailing them out to the extent that is happening, nor am I in favour of the void that has developed between the bottom and the top !!

Most of those at the bottom contribute greatly to the wealth of those at the top, and I think deserve a lot more respect (layabouts and spongers excluded)

[Sidewinder]

PS, this is not to suggest I am a socialist (which I am not!!)

What is it with southern society and this fear of not being seen as in any way "socialist", with this need to constantly portray yourselves as tough and hard and right-wing?

It comes across to me anyway, that any talk of social conscience, a fair society, the common good, is almost seen as treacherous and anti-Irish as everyone panics and falls over themselves to disassociate themselves from such crazy talk.

Divil-take-the-hindmost kick-the-poor me-feinism seems to be the only acceptable position in "polite society".

[Andrew49]

Call for a General Election in Ireland (http://www.facebook.com/generalelection) now passed 5,000 members.

The rich do pay a lot of the tax, 26 -27.5%. which BTW is not ALL.
48% of earners cannot afford to pay tax another
40% won't earn enough to have the privilege of paying the high rate of tax. That means...

88% of income earners earn below €36,000 per year.

This is in comparison with

0.5% that earned over 7 Billion, which on average means
after 1 month, in 'their' pocket they have what 88% will take a whole year to earn,
or after 3 years they will have earned a lifetimes wages.

Lets not get distracted by averages and remember that the
Bankers were earning 2-4 Million, which is 1-2 generations wages.

And let’s not forget those that managed to avoid tax altogether,
e.g. the developer reported to have earned over 12mn (this is from memory, and will stand corrected)
which is 7 generations income for 88% of countries income earners.

I do find it obscene that,

0.5% are being bailed out by 100% of the people

..... and it will be passed on for generations to come !!!

If you are happy with that..... then stay silent, if not, write, speak to your TD Today !!! and....

MAKE NOISE on 8th May 2010 @ 12 noon

more facts and figures here (http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/07/28/a-little-quiz-on-irelands-income-tax/)

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c135/theknitter/ffgetout.jpg

[ThomasB]

What is it with southern society and this fear of not being seen as in any way "socialist", with this need to constantly portray yourselves as tough and hard and right-wing?

It comes across to me anyway, that any talk of social conscience, a fair society, the common good, is almost seen as treacherous and anti-Irish as everyone panics and falls over themselves to disassociate themselves from such crazy talk.

Divil-take-the-hindmost kick-the-poor me-feinism seems to be the only acceptable position in "polite society".

Great point !!! I would not see a social conscience, etc as treacherous, quite the oppiste in fact. It is the extremes of anything that cause a problem, and I do not want to be either an extreme capatalist or socialist.

I am in favour of a balance between both, containing the good in both.

Its the "absolute power corrupts absolutely" kinda thing that concerns me

[Xray]

What is it with southern society and this fear of not being seen as in any way "socialist", with this need to constantly portray yourselves as tough and hard and right-wing?

It comes across to me anyway, that any talk of social conscience, a fair society, the common good, is almost seen as treacherous and anti-Irish as everyone panics and falls over themselves to disassociate themselves from such crazy talk.

Divil-take-the-hindmost kick-the-poor me-feinism seems to be the only acceptable position in "polite society".

You have made a very important point there I think. So far have we gone on bended knee to the great god of free enterprise we cannot get up.

We had a sustained period of amazing improvements in many many things. We went from a poor, doubting, violent, repressive and old fashioned country with no hope to a vibrant, arrogant, peaceful.consesus driven one in one generation. It is such a shock to people belief system now that much of that has been taken away in months that cannot fully accept a left wing point of view on things.

I am not a socialist and never have been, but I would be a moderately left of center, social democrat. My world view has not been challanged that by the last 2 years. I doubt a PD or free market FFer or indeed FGer could say the same.

The classic example is Harney, she came up with a model for the health service based on loads of cheap money and willing developers. Amazingly that is still her plan, she just cannot face that the original articles of faith have been proved false.

Attacking this government from the left flank is still seen as militant or dangerous in some way. Our whole political belief system is collapsing, we dont know what to think.

[Xray]

Great point !!! I would not see a social conscience, etc as treacherous, quite the oppiste in fact. It is the extremes of anything that cause a problem, and I do not want to be either an extreme capatalist or socialist.

I am in favour of a balance between both, containing the good in both.

Its the "absolute power corrupts absolutely" kinda thing that concerns me

There can be no balance between both now as one must destroy the other, we can either have free hospitals or six banks. We cannot have both. Consensus political and economic is what got us here, sooner or later we need to face that. The mass rejection of the Croke Park deal just confirms that. People will not agree to what is about to be done to them in the name of saving others, the interests of both sides are not the same and cannot be the same.

The excess of those in the "middle" has destroyed the centre ground. The damage done to this country is more severe than people realise. We cannot work together again, confrontation is the only way forward now such is the break down in trust caused by theft and corruption.

[ThomasB]

There can be no balance between both now as one must destroy the other, we can either have free hospitals or six banks. We cannot have both. Consensus political and economic is what got us here, sooner or later we need to face that. The mass rejection of the Croke Park deal just confirms that. People will not agree to what is about to be done to them in the name of saving others, the interests of both sides are not the same and cannot be the same.

The excess of those in the "middle" has destroyed the centre ground. The damage done to this country is more severe than people realise. We cannot work together again, confrontation is the only way forward now such is the break down in trust caused by theft and corruption.

Yes Xray, I truly hope they will stand up and not agree, we must find a more balanced approach.
Yes, the interests of both are not the same, but the synergy that could be got from both, would, IMHO be better than either. I'm not sure WE were working together, just the big guys on both sides feathering their own nest ??

I think though we are not that far apart, you say you are left of centre and I suppose I would be right of center. Surely we could find a way for people like us to work together on some things at least. Like calling for a general election, its time to come out of the trenches, don't you think ?

[Fraxinus]

Great point !!! I would not see a social conscience, etc as treacherous, quite the oppiste in fact. It is the extremes of anything that cause a problem, and I do not want to be either an extreme capatalist or socialist.

I am in favour of a balance between both, containing the good in both.

Its the "absolute power corrupts absolutely" kinda thing that concerns me

Don't know if ya can have both to be honest Thomas, you want populist, centrist which is what we have. Wanting the best of both pies. That's the FF and cowboy way.

[ThomasB]

Don't know if ya can have both to be honest Thomas, you want populist, centrist which is what we have. Wanting the best of both pies. That's the FF and cowboy way.

Don't agree, FF have shown what happens when the greed for money takes over, this is extreme Capitalism in my view and very far from centre :confused:

[Fraxinus]

Don't agree, FF have shown what happens when the greed for money takes over, this is extreme Capitalism in my view and very far from centre :confused:

It's not even capitalism....the state is using public money to bail out their cronies...an extreme capitalist regime would let them fail. FF jump from left to right to try and get as many votes as possible.

[C. Flower]

Its just capitalism.

[Fraxinus]

Its just capitalism.

Sorry you're right, I was thinking of liberalism. It's an Irish brand of capitalism.

[ThomasB]

Sorry you're right, I was thinking of liberalism. It's an Irish brand of capitalism.

Good point, & I agree Captialism would let them fail.

An important point I heard recently about the debt. FF would hav e us believe it is a national Debt and we cant default on it.

BUT its a private limited company's private debt not a soverign one.

One day to the Saturday MAY 8th Call for an Irish Election.

Stay Silent or have your voice heard, your decision or would you like to 'phone a friend' :cool:

[Solohead]

Sorry you're right, I was thinking of liberalism. It's an Irish brand of capitalism.

It's a brand of capitalism that could be seen in any Latin American dictatorship, where the so called elites benefited from handing state assets over to North American corporate interests. It's precisely that model that is being worked out here. The solution is to fight back as they have in South America and reclaim our resources (gas, water, health service).

Capitalism is not run on merit. U.S. corporations are bankrolled by the state to an enormous degree - they have huge transport infrastructrure built to their needs, for example. This is not an Irish problem. It is a problem of a corrupt corporate system which seeks to control the state system.

[C. Flower]

Times and Places of the Make Noise protest for a General Election tomorrow.

Call for a General Election in Ireland (http://www.facebook.com/generalelection)

Make Noise for a General Election! This Saturday May 8th from 12.00-12.30pm in Dublin (Kildare St), Galway (Eyre Sq), Limerick (Bedford Row), Cork (Patrick's St) and Waterford (John Robert's Sq). Wear a white t-shirt or top if possible and bring along a whistle, drum, pot & pan or anything you can think of to make plen...ty of noise! Not political, just democratic. Stand up and make your voice heard!

I think last time some people who couldn't make it Made Noise wherever they were at the time.

[BrendanGalway]

Times and Places of the Make Noise protest for a General Election tomorrow.

Call for a General Election in Ireland (http://www.facebook.com/generalelection)

Make Noise for a General Election! This Saturday May 8th from 12.00-12.30pm Galway (Eyre Sq),

Cool. I'll head down to it.

[ang]

Good Luck to all attending. Can't get there tomorrow but hopefully I will get to one of them later in the month.

[C. Flower]

Well, I've made a good amount of noise. Time to give the neighbours a break. One of them has said she'll join in next week.

[ThomasB]

Thanks to those who made it in to the Dublin protest today! Good craic had by all I think, in spite of a low turnout. It was a great dress rehersal for next one on Wednesday May 18th at lunchtime though. Outside the Dáil works perfectly, with lots of beeping horns and thumbs-up from the passing traffic. Pots and pans w...ork VERY well too, I'm going to pick up a load of cheap pots in Aldi or Lidl for the 18th.

Ok, for all you folks who asked why not outside the Dail, here it is.

Looking forward to seeing you in your thousands outside the Dail, no more excuses ;)

[Kid Ryder]

What is it with southern society and this fear of not being seen as in any way "socialist", with this need to constantly portray yourselves as tough and hard and right-wing?

It comes across to me anyway, that any talk of social conscience, a fair society, the common good, is almost seen as treacherous and anti-Irish as everyone panics and falls over themselves to disassociate themselves from such crazy talk.

Divil-take-the-hindmost kick-the-poor me-feinism seems to be the only acceptable position in "polite society".

+1. Oireland Inc. took over the seat in most sheeple's skulls from Holy Catholic Ireland around about the time Vincent 'Fab Vinnie' Browne was demanding 'neo-liberalism now!' on his soapbox on the Late Late Show. 1981 or '82, I think. The substance of the tuppenny-ha'penny white trash prejudices remained essentially unaltered. The only changes were minor alterations to the rhetoric.

1982: 'Gaybo, them unmarried mothers are a disgrace, have they no morals blah blah blah...'

2010: 'Joe, them workshy spongers on the dole, havin' babies to get houses and benefits blah blah blah...'

Don't get me wrong about 'sheeple'. The worst sheeple types I know are those who read broadsheet newspapers. At least most tabloid readers twig that they're reading a comic.

[ThomasB]

Don't get me wrong about 'sheeple'. The worst sheeple types I know are those who read broadsheet newspapers. At least most tabloid readers twig that they're reading a comic.

Baaaaaaa ,that's where I was baaaing wrong :rolleyes:

Where did Mary go :confused:

[C. Flower]

Ok, for all you folks who asked why not outside the Dail, here it is.

Looking forward to seeing you in your thousands outside the Dail, no more excuses ;)


Tuesday is the 18th May, according to our calendar.

Which is it, the Tuesday or the 19th ?

[Binn Beal]

What was the turn-out like? Is it to be a weekly event?
I might make it to Eyre Square if so and I could bring the young fella - put his natural talent for noise to good use.

[ThomasB]

Tuesday is the 18th May, according to our calendar.

Which is it, the Tuesday or the 19th ?

Its tomorrow folks, Wednesday 19th.

So those peacful demonstrators from tonights gathering should join in tomorrow at lunchtime 1-2 PM

We need to keep the pressure up.

Persitance pays.

[ThomasB]

Would anybody agree that those that benifited most from the borrowed boom, should help most with the aftermath cleanup.

BTW, FYI

http://www.facebook.com/generalelection now @ 6,223.

Next Call for an Election Wednesday 12.30 -1.30pm Outside Dail.

[Lifeisagame]

Would anybody agree that those that benifited most from the borrowed boom, should help most with the aftermath cleanup.

BTW, FYI

http://www.facebook.com/generalelection now @ 6,223.

Next Call for an Election Wednesday 12.30 -1.30pm Outside Dail.
I still cannot see that FF will give a toss about these small demonstrations. They are more interested in cutting peoples salaries and benefits. Particularly now they believe, as do I, that the Croke Park deal will be passed.

[ThomasB]

I still cannot see that FF will give a toss about these small demonstrations. They are more interested in cutting peoples salaries and benefits. Particularly now they believe, as do I, that the Croke Park deal will be passed.

Its the small ones you have to watch:D, because they have such great potential. This group is growing continually, and has a very clear & simple goal.

GIVE US AN ELECTION

I don't give a toss about FF either so no harm done :)

[smiles]

New to the whole political thing (learning fast though) and have actually been brought to this forum through facebook. If you don't mind one of the lowly citizens of Ireland inputting I have some suggestions :o).. I have read through quite a few of the various threads relating to this and similar topics and they all look the same to me. Somebody makes a suggestion, someone else disagrees and it becomes about who's opinion is most correct, ping/pong, all ends up the same: nothing gets done.... Sounds a bit like our government :o).

The majority of people I speak to o a daily basis are all of the same mind, the government we have is crippling the country and destroying hope for the future. Every sector feels the same; elderly, parents, business people, community workers, employed, unemployed.. (btw this was not surveyed, this is pure observation) they all want the same thing: AN ALTERNATIVE!!!

It is one thing to call for an election but to vote for who exactly?? People are crying out for a forward thinking, radical change to the Irish Political system.. ThomasB I think you are onto a great thing here but people are not getting involved because there is no alternative.. If you look at the facebook group that was set up for fun: "Replace the current Irish Government with a Badger named Stephen" they are growing rapidly with nearly 18,000 members, am just using this to show the level of discontent that really does exist..

Not here to criticise, what I believe is that the discontent should have reached proportion enough to justify the people on here (and beyond), who have vision, (and have enough political knowledge) to carve a new future. Fresh blood that hasn't started to stale yet, honesty, transparency, integrity. People not ran by their own egos and personal ambition, but from a deeper understanding and the ability to work collectively to bring this country back onto its feet.. People who are there for the good of the country and the Irish people. Too radical?? 18,000 people would rather a badger! :o)

[Mod4]

New to the whole political thing (learning fast though) and have actually been brought to this forum through facebook. If you don't mind one of the lowly citizens of Ireland inputting I have some suggestions :o).. I have read through quite a few of the various threads relating to this and similar topics and they all look the same to me. Somebody makes a suggestion, someone else disagrees and it becomes about who's opinion is most correct, ping/pong, all ends up the same: nothing gets done.... Sounds a bit like our government :o).

The majority of people I speak to o a daily basis are all of the same mind, the government we have is crippling the country and destroying hope for the future. Every sector feels the same; elderly, parents, business people, community workers, employed, unemployed.. (btw this was not surveyed, this is pure observation) they all want the same thing: AN ALTERNATIVE!!!

It is one thing to call for an election but to vote for who exactly?? People are crying out for a forward thinking, radical change to the Irish Political system.. ThomasB I think you are onto a great thing here but people are not getting involved because there is no alternative.. If you look at the facebook group that was set up for fun: "Replace the current Irish Government with a Badger named Stephen" they are growing rapidly with nearly 18,000 members, am just using this to show the level of discontent that really does exist..

Not here to criticise, what I believe is that the discontent should have reached proportion enough to justify the people on here (and beyond), who have vision, (and have enough political knowledge) to carve a new future. Fresh blood that hasn't started to stale yet, honesty, transparency, integrity. People not ran by their own egos and personal ambition, but from a deeper understanding and the ability to work collectively to bring this country back onto its feet.. People who are there for the good of the country and the Irish people. Too radical?? 18,000 people would rather a badger! :o)

Nice first post smiles and welcome to the forum.
I don't think anyone here believes this is the forum for change. It's a discussion forum and nothing more.

I must check out Stephen the badger though. He sounds as good as any party leader at present.

[smiles]

Nice first post smiles and welcome to the forum.
I don't think anyone here believes this is the forum for change. It's a discussion forum and nothing more.

I must check out Stephen the badger though. He sounds as good as any party leader at present.

Thank you for the warm welcome, nice to be here :) "Discussion Forum" understood (I think) :D How great it would be if change did start here though, surrounded by all this political knowledge and interest to caress and nuture it in its infancy :)

Stephen the badger seems like a cool candidate ;)

[ThomasB]

New to the whole political thing (learning fast though) and have actually been brought to this forum through facebook. If you don't mind one of the lowly citizens of Ireland inputting I have some suggestions :o).. I have read through quite a few of the various threads relating to this and similar topics and they all look the same to me. Somebody makes a suggestion, someone else disagrees and it becomes about who's opinion is most correct, ping/pong, all ends up the same: nothing gets done.... Sounds a bit like our government :o).

The majority of people I speak to o a daily basis are all of the same mind, the government we have is crippling the country and destroying hope for the future. Every sector feels the same; elderly, parents, business people, community workers, employed, unemployed.. (btw this was not surveyed, this is pure observation) they all want the same thing: AN ALTERNATIVE!!!

It is one thing to call for an election but to vote for who exactly?? People are crying out for a forward thinking, radical change to the Irish Political system.. ThomasB I think you are onto a great thing here but people are not getting involved because there is no alternative.. If you look at the facebook group that was set up for fun: "Replace the current Irish Government with a Badger named Stephen" they are growing rapidly with nearly 18,000 members, am just using this to show the level of discontent that really does exist..

Not here to criticise, what I believe is that the discontent should have reached proportion enough to justify the people on here (and beyond), who have vision, (and have enough political knowledge) to carve a new future. Fresh blood that hasn't started to stale yet, honesty, transparency, integrity. People not ran by their own egos and personal ambition, but from a deeper understanding and the ability to work collectively to bring this country back onto its feet.. People who are there for the good of the country and the Irish people. Too radical?? 18,000 people would rather a badger! :o)

Great comment Smiles.

I agree there is a lot of Talk, and not enough Doing, very like the Government :(

We do need an alternative, but rather than spending a lot of time debating what the best alternative is and then trying to get an election, I support a multiple approach. There are alternatives being discussed and there is "fresh blood that hasn't started to stale yet, honesty, transparency, integrity. People not ran by their own egos and personal ambition, but from a deeper understanding and the ability to work collectively to bring this country back onto its feet."

It will take time to get an election so I am happy to support anyone who wants to work at that, while others work on the Alternatives.

IT is not true to say there are no Alternatives, the problem is that these alternatives are shouted down by those who have control of the Media, but persitance will win out :D

[C. Flower]

I agree with smiles. Time we had some solid discussion of realistic alternative programmes for Government.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I'd echo smiles' thoughts and its worth remembering also that the one thing that really ruffled the feathers of Cowen and co was not political debate or questions in the Dail but this painting of a naked Cowen sitting on the toilet. Its about time the rest of the gangsters got the same treatment.

http://www.blather.net/zeitgeist/nude_brian_cowen_toilet.jpg

I wouldn't underestimate the powetr of satire and remembering also that the ego is important to the so-called 'elite', aka knackers in ties.

[Digout]

I agree with smiles. Time we had some solid discussion of realistic alternative programmes for Government.

http://donraja.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/monkeys.jpg

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Is that a class reunion from the London School of Economics? And if so which one is Aherne?

[ThomasB]

I agree with smiles. Time we had some solid discussion of realistic alternative programmes for Government.

Ok So I'll kick it of.

Elect about 20 National Managers to mange the Country.
Reduce the number of County and town councillors, who will manage local gvernment.
Make this group accountable for producing results and not medical crds or planining permision. Real results like reduced deficit, functioning health service, Transport system that works, and a legal system that reduces crime.

first order of priority would be Job Creation.

[C. Flower]

Ok So I'll kick it of.

Elect about 20 National Managers to mange the Country.
Reduce the number of County and town councillors, who will manage local gvernment.
Make this group accountable for producing results and not medical crds or planining permision. Real results like reduced deficit, functioning health service, Transport system that works, and a legal system that reduces crime.

first order of priority would be Job Creation.

Are you talking about a US type elected mayoral situation ? Fianna Fail are going to bring in an elected Mayor in Dublin and An Bord Snip Nua said that the number of local authorities should be reduced.

Why would you just not let Fianna Fail go ahead ?

[ThomasB]

Are you talking about a US type elected mayoral situation ? Fianna Fail are going to bring in an elected Mayor in Dublin and An Bord Snip Nua said that the number of local authorities should be reduced.

Why would you just not let Fianna Fail go ahead ?

Not sure we should copy other systems, we need an Irish solution to an Irish problem, but we can take the best and combine them.

I don't see why we must come up with new systems instead of fixing the ones we have. A mayor is just another cost we could do with out.

Agree local authorities could be reduced, starting in Dublin, how many do we have there :confused:

Fianna Fail have had the country for a long time and presided over the biggest boom in years and yet look at where we are. There must be a moral hazard to mismanaging to such a scale.

[MPB]

Are you talking about a US type elected mayoral situation ? Fianna Fail are going to bring in an elected Mayor in Dublin and An Bord Snip Nua said that the number of local authorities should be reduced.

Why would you just not let Fianna Fail go ahead ?

Just let FF go and tell them not to come back.

Anybody who believes that an alternative political entity with new ideas, will be able to change this country for the better is deluded.

Every position of importance and significance in the country has been filled by Royal appointment. FF have stuffed the State Bodies and Civil Service with their own trusted acolytes.

They in turn have stuffed the positions around them with personal friends and even relatives.

To change Ireland, you would have to unravel 70 years of insider political dealing.

These insiders control the system. The TDs are not the problem. The hierarchy in FF and the civil service, the Banks, the semi States, and the professions are the problem.

I can think of no country in the world that has achieved the type of change Ireland requires without a revolution.

I would love to think that we could be the first, but realistically, I would not hold out too much hope.

Just look at how they have dealt with our Banking crisis, Elites and connected first, protect the status quo and the natural order at all costs.

And when this is achieved and all positions are not only safe but safer, then you can deal with the nations subjects.

[C. Flower]

Just let FF go and tell them not to come back.

Anybody who believes that an alternative political entity with new ideas, will be able to change this country for the better is deluded.

Every position of importance and significance in the country has been filled by Royal appointment. FF have stuffed the State Bodies and Civil Service with their own trusted acolytes.

They in turn have stuffed the positions around them with personal friends and even relatives.

To change Ireland, you would have to unravel 70 years of insider political dealing.

These insiders control the system. The TDs are not the problem. The hierarchy in FF and the civil service, the Banks, the semi States, and the professions are the problem.

I can think of no country in the world that has achieved the type of change Ireland requires without a revolution.

I would love to think that we could be the first, but realistically, I would not hold out too much hope.

Just look at how they have dealt with our Banking crisis, Elites and connected first, protect the status quo and the natural order at all costs.

And when this is achieved and all positions are not only safe but safer, then you can deal with the nations subjects.

The nations subjects will be handed over to the IMF. In Roumania the public sector is getting 25% wage cuts on the instructions of the IMF. I think the way to deal with this is to join up with the other populations who want jobs and services, not preservation of privileged positions.

[MPB]

The nations subjects will be handed over to the IMF. In Roumania the public sector is getting 25% wage cuts on the instructions of the IMF. I think the way to deal with this is to join up with the other populations who want jobs and services, not preservation of privileged positions.

The IMF are there to protect the Banks.

There goal is to move in make sure the country repays the Banks and move on.

They do not care about the welfare of a nations citizens, they care about protecting global financiers.

[C. Flower]

The IMF are there to protect the Banks.

There goal is to move in make sure the country repays the Banks and move on.

They do not care about the welfare of a nations citizens, they care about protecting global financiers.

We're going to see a very serious contraction of income and living standard for the majority of people in this country. If we want to avoid real disaster, we'll have to get all hands to the pump on an emergency basis to ensure that essential services and the basics - food and housing - are there for people.

[MPB]

We're going to see a very serious contraction of income and living standard for the majority of people in this country. If we want to avoid real disaster, we'll have to get all hands to the pump on an emergency basis to ensure that essential services and the basics - food and housing - are there for people.

The people in Ireland have taken enough cuts to pay and have seen enough increases in taxes.

We could halve the deficit tomorrow, if we dismantled every Quango in the country.

But these Quangoes are there to provide jobs for the donors to FF and the other politcal parties.

The Quangoes were introduced to circumvent the destruction of the brown envelope.

They are merely a way of rewarding party members with taxpayers money.

We also need to create jobs and provide an environment for foreign investment.

Cheap Energy is the key to job creation but FF are not willing to push the Energy agenda until the State Energy Companies are in a position of strength with regard to the provision of Energy alternatives.

Basically if it is not benefitting FF, it will not benefit anybody. They have run this country as their own personal fifedom for decades and the sooner we are rid, the better.

But as I said in my previous post, whoever replaces them must organise a major cull of the top echelons of the Civil Service and the Semi States.

[Kid Ryder]

We're going to see a very serious contraction of income and living standard for the majority of people in this country. If we want to avoid real disaster, we'll have to get all hands to the pump on an emergency basis to ensure that essential services and the basics - food and housing - are there for people.

If the beasts that are currently in charge of the economy and the political system are left in charge during this contraction, the essential services and basics will just not be there, no matter how hard we work to try to keep them going. The rich will steal those services which still work for themselves, and destroy or sabotage the handiwork of tens of thousands if it cannot be taken away from the people. The contrived scarcity of food and housing etc. will be used by Oireland Inc. to keep the poor majority in line and break (or exile) dissidents, just like Holy Catholic Ireland did in earlier times.

[ThomasB]

To change Ireland, you would have to unravel 70 years of insider political dealing.

These insiders control the system. The TDs are not the problem. The hierarchy in FF and the civil service, the Banks, the semi States, and the professions are the problem.

I think we need to focus on solutions,
I agree that the political system and the "hierarchy" need to be overhauled, so that could go on the list.
I think we cannot afford to continue the way it was just because it will be difficult to change.


We're going to see a very serious contraction of income and living standard for the majority of people in this country. If we want to avoid real disaster, we'll have to get all hands to the pump on an emergency basis to ensure that essential services and the basics - food and housing - are there for people.

Yes WE ALL must take responsibility for OUR contry and play a part in rebuilding a better country and a better future. The deck of cards have collapsed so we have a great oppourtunity now to start over, lets hope we don't waste it


The people in Ireland have taken enough cuts to pay and have seen enough increases in taxes.

We could halve the deficit tomorrow, if we dismantled every Quango in the country.

We also need to create jobs and provide an environment for foreign investment.

Cheap Energy is the key to job creation

But as I said in my previous post, whoever replaces them must organise a major cull of the top echelons of the Civil Service and the Semi States.

Some good suggestions there MPB

[smiles]

I think we need to focus on solutions

I agree wholeheartedly! We could discuss all day how it couldn't possibly work, but alot of the above posts just highlighted why it needs to change! If we, who see it happening, don't change it, who does???

If all of the energy I sense in this forum is channeled in a creative, positive way and those ideas that emerge are noted, who knows :)

[People Korps]

I think everyone has come to the same conclusion and possibly even the parties
there are no alternatives, trust FG to lead or trust FF to lead. I think people would like something different but they are now trapped in prejudice, debt, fear and hopelessness. That makes for a dangerous or apathetic situation.

It is fair to say that no one foresees a revolution and no one would be sure of its outcome (I am taking globally as much as nationally).

There is no mass movement for change that I see having any traction except right wing ones at the moment. The unions are not playing any social role as far as I can see.

If the unions want cred then they should encourage their members to get involved with community projects, volunteer works etc

If we are , as individuals, to prepare for the worst then we should all start thinking of community and locality. How to make things better when the **** hits the fan?

I have lived in squatter land and observed the great things that come from human effort. I have alas seen the same hierarchical structures emerge which fail to serve any common good.

Only by example can we show the way forward. It is time for theoreticians to step up to the plate and start to actively help the community. If some of the people who wind-bagged here so much about the state of things actually went out and spent half their on line time volunteering in communal creches, youth activities, provide their professional advice to people for free etc we would begin to form the building blocks of an embracing societal grassroots effort.


I fear that we will be drawn into the control of despots if we dont establish a humanistic grassroots that ignores the small divisions politically between our potential rulers and serves it back up on a plate for all to see or we will not survive as a society through what is coming. And yes it is going to be worse than before, way worse. Governments are struggling to buy as much time as they can but this system is over.

[ThomasB]

I agree wholeheartedly! We could discuss all day how it couldn't possibly work, but alot of the above posts just highlighted why it needs to change! If we, who see it happening, don't change it, who does???

If all of the energy I sense in this forum is channeled in a creative, positive way and those ideas that emerge are noted, who knows :)

I'm liking you already, clear concise and SENSIBLE, on with revoSOLUTION :)


I think everyone has come to the same conclusion and possibly even the parties
there are no alternatives, trust FG to lead or trust FF to lead. I think people would like something different but they are now trapped in prejudice, debt, fear and hopelessness. That makes for a dangerous or apathetic situation.

It is fair to say that no one foresees a revolution and no one would be sure of its outcome (I am taking globally as much as nationally).

There is no mass movement for change that I see having any traction except right wing ones at the moment. The unions are not playing any social role as far as I can see.

If the unions want cred then they should encourage their members to get involved with community projects, volunteer works etc

... we should all start thinking of community and locality.

I have lived in squatter land and observed the great things that come from human effort.

Only by example can we show the way forward. It is time for theoreticians to step up to the plate and start to actively help the community. If some of the people who wind-bagged here so much about the state of things actually went out and spent half their on line time volunteering in communal creches, youth activities, provide their professional advice to people for free etc we would begin to form the building blocks of an embracing societal grassroots effort.

There are alternatives, you've just listed a few !!!!!

Maybe no mass movment, but there are large dijointed groups with common goals, When these groups cooperate together then we will see real change

Stop crying about what is not happening and how helpless some are and start focusing on what is happening, what needs to happen and what as individuals we can do to make it happen.

12.30 -1.30 individuals will be making it happen outside the Dail TODAY


I fear that we will be drawn into the control of despots if we dont establish a humanistic grassroots that ignores the small divisions politically between our potential rulers and serves it back up on a plate for all to see or we will not survive as a society through what is coming. And yes it is going to be worse than before, way worse. Governments are struggling to buy as much time as they can but this system is over.

[Binn Beal]

If the demo were to swing by the Green Party offices, pressure would be applied to the weakest link.

[smiles]

RevoSolution! Nice :) New thread perhaps? Positive, creative ideas for actual change? A melting pot as such..

[ThomasB]

If the demo were to swing by the Green Party offices, pressure would be applied to the weakest link.

Hmmm, Yes perhaps the pupose is to create awareness, after each demo there is a jump of support as more people get to hear aboutit


RevoSolution! Nice :) New thread perhaps? Positive, creative ideas for actual change? A melting pot as such..

Yes, feel free to kick one off, I'll have a think about an opening post as well but short of time at the mo.

on with the revoSolution :)

[ThomasB]

IS it coming near :cool:

Time for the mighty Irish to work together, but are we ready ?

If you want Change, then YOU must CHANGE (obviously what we have been doing isn't working, on so many fronts)

I was encouraged looking at Mandella piece at the South Africa ceremony.
I thought now there is a real leader, do we have any even close to this man's integrity and determination (and patience !!!).

Do we deserve one ?

[C. Flower]

IS it coming near :cool:

Time for the mighty Irish to work together, but are we ready ?

If you want Change, then YOU must CHANGE (obviously what we have been doing isn't working, on so many fronts)

I was encouraged looking at Mandella piece at the South Africa ceremony.
I thought now there is a real leader, do we have any even close to this man's integrity and determination (and patience !!!).

Do we deserve one ?

You would have to look in our jails, if South Africa is anything to go by.

Perhaps Pat O'Donnell ?

http://www.shelltosea.com/


YouTube- Pat O'Donnell, Shell To Sea, Feared Assault

[ThomasB]

Wow, powerful stuff CF,

I do admire anyone who shows the integrity to ACT (peacefully) on their beliefs

I suppose no one is in jail for scuttling his boat ?

News just in


we'll definitely be doing something outside the Dáil on Tuesday for the Vote of Confidence.
http://www.facebook.com/generalelection

[Bertie Basher]

what time is the vote on ? evening ? if so, I am there !

[C. Flower]

Wow, powerful stuff CF,

I do admire anyone who shows the integrity to ACT (peacefully) on their beliefs

I suppose no one is in jail for scuttling his boat ?

News just in


No, but he's in jail still himself and appreciates letters addressed to:


Pat O'Donnell,
Castlerea Prison,
Harristown, Castlerea,
Co.Roscommon

[disability student]

No, but he's in jail still himself and appreciates letters addressed to:


Pat O'Donnell,
Castlerea Prison,
Harristown, Castlerea,
Co.Roscommon

in jail really ? for what?? for standing up re his beliefs

[C. Flower]

in jail really ? for what?? for standing up re his beliefs

"Breach of peace" and "Obstructing gardaí". He got seven months imprisonment.

http://www.shelltosea.com/content/pat-odonnell-jailed-7-months-opposing-shell

I'll start a thread on this later.

[ThomasB]

No, but he's in jail still himself and appreciates letters addressed to:


Pat O'Donnell,
Castlerea Prison,
Harristown, Castlerea,
Co.Roscommon

Yep, I saw that on FB & blog, good idea.

[ThomasB]

what time is the vote on ? evening ? if so, I am there !

Vote happens at 8.30 http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0610/banks.html

So, see you there BB and don't come back saying you are washing your hair :D

[gerardfromdonegal]

Cowen needs to go to the country on Tuesday and call that election the people want as Cowen is finished.

[gerardfromdonegal]

The Majority of voters want election in 2010

[gerardfromdonegal]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Majority of voters want election in 2010

[Murra]

New to the whole political thing (learning fast though) and have actually been brought to this forum through facebook. If you don't mind one of the lowly citizens of Ireland inputting I have some suggestions :o).. I have read through quite a few of the various threads relating to this and similar topics and they all look the same to me. Somebody makes a suggestion, someone else disagrees and it becomes about who's opinion is most correct, ping/pong, all ends up the same: nothing gets done.... Sounds a bit like our government :o).

The majority of people I speak to o a daily basis are all of the same mind, the government we have is crippling the country and destroying hope for the future. Every sector feels the same; elderly, parents, business people, community workers, employed, unemployed.. (btw this was not surveyed, this is pure observation) they all want the same thing: AN ALTERNATIVE!!!

It is one thing to call for an election but to vote for who exactly?? People are crying out for a forward thinking, radical change to the Irish Political system.. ThomasB I think you are onto a great thing here but people are not getting involved because there is no alternative.. If you look at the facebook group that was set up for fun: "Replace the current Irish Government with a Badger named Stephen" they are growing rapidly with nearly 18,000 members, am just using this to show the level of discontent that really does exist..

Not here to criticise, what I believe is that the discontent should have reached proportion enough to justify the people on here (and beyond), who have vision, (and have enough political knowledge) to carve a new future. Fresh blood that hasn't started to stale yet, honesty, transparency, integrity. People not ran by their own egos and personal ambition, but from a deeper understanding and the ability to work collectively to bring this country back onto its feet.. People who are there for the good of the country and the Irish people. Too radical?? 18,000 people would rather a badger! :o)

Welcome Smiles. Please check out the discussion on this thread as it relates to your post here. Any feedback appreciated. You will also find Emerald Forum on Facebook, please feel free to join.

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=1098

[ThomasB]

Welcome Smiles. Please check out the discussion on this thread as it relates to your post here. Any feedback appreciated. You will also find Emerald Forum on Facebook, please feel free to join.

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=1098

Murra, looking forward to seeing you tonight at the Dail, from 7pm
I heard http://www.facebook.com/generalelection are attempting to do live stream interviews etc at their event starting from 7pm tonight.

With the shambles that is Fine Gael the last days now more than ever we need a new government

[C. Flower]

ThomasB - we heard you the first time :)

I think there may be other groups lobbying the Dail tonight too. Good luck to all concerned. I think RTE is running the debate live, but I don't know where or when it starts. Any idea ?

[ThomasB]

ThomasB - we heard you the first time :)

I think there may be other groups lobbying the Dail tonight too. Good luck to all concerned. I think RTE is running the debate live, but I don't know where or when it starts. Any idea ?

Well repition seems to be the political way, keep saying the same thing until you wear sensible argument down ;)

http://www.rte.ie/live/index.html Select Dail Eirean from list on player

Careless Cowen on his feet now !!

[ThomasB]

Enda on feet now, and looks like he is displaying his new front bench :)
(sorry I know its a distraction, but no point hiding from it now, I guess)

[wickedfairy]

What is it with southern society and this fear of not being seen as in any way "socialist", with this need to constantly portray yourselves as tough and hard and right-wing?

It comes across to me anyway, that any talk of social conscience, a fair society, the common good, is almost seen as treacherous and anti-Irish as everyone panics and falls over themselves to disassociate themselves from such crazy talk.

Divil-take-the-hindmost kick-the-poor me-feinism seems to be the only acceptable position in "polite society".

totally agree with you, I dont understand it either, its like its dirty to think socialist, dont get it myself, capitalism hasnt exactly been a success, has it?

[C. Flower]

totally agree with you, I dont understand it either, its like its dirty to think socialist, dont get it myself, capitalism hasnt exactly been a success, has it?

I think the Church has had something to do with it, in Ireland, but also, not having a big working class here, and relatively not very strong Trade Union movement.

[ThomasB]

totally agree with you, I dont understand it either, its like its dirty to think socialist, dont get it myself, capitalism hasnt exactly been a success, has it?

It doesn't matter what sort of "ism" is being followed if those in charge are corrupt and change the rules when the rules don't suit them.

Politics appears to be just about POWER now, and less about running the country for the good of ALL

[politicsguy]

The Majority of voters want election in 2010

Brian cowen doesn't care what the majority of voters want - he's going to cling on to power for as long as possible

[concernedparent]

Brian cowen doesn't care what the majority of voters want - he's going to cling on to power for as long as possible

But isn't that the mantra of the current shower.

Power at all costs and clinging to power beyond all costs, including the damage to the future and our children's future.:mad:

[jinnyjoe]

I support any reasonable means to bring this country to a place I would be happy to invite people to live in and rear children !!

PS, this is not to suggest I am a socialist (which I am not!!), I believe in people being allowed earn more if they risk and work more. But I am not in favour of bailing them out to the extent that is happening, nor am I in favour of the void that has developed between the bottom and the top !!

Most of those at the bottom contribute greatly to the wealth of those at the top, and I think deserve a lot more respect (layabouts and spongers excluded)

By spongers I hope you don't mean those who have worked hard all their life and because they are only qualified in the construction industry cannot find any sort of manual work at the moment????

[Binn Beal]

For someone who is not a socialist, ThomasB, I think you have defined that stage of society very well.

[C. Flower]

Ger ? Colleran acting for Vincent Browne tonight read out a text from someone who said "the Country is on the cusp of a revolution and he hopes it would not be bloody"
and Colleran said that he "didn't know what planet this man is on".

It would make you wonder whether some people get out at all.

[ThomasB]

Brian cowen doesn't care what the majority of voters want - he's going to cling on to power for as long as possible
And that is in the National interest and his patriotic duty ::mad:


But isn't that the mantra of the current shower.

Power at all costs and clinging to power beyond all costs, including the damage to the future and our children's future.:mad:

Yes and still the country sit by :confused:


By spongers I hope you don't mean those who have worked hard all their life and because they are only qualified in the construction industry cannot find any sort of manual work at the moment????

Absolutely not, if you pay into an insurance scheme you are entitled to withdraw from it. But I would suggest that those in that position don't swallow the spin that they can do nothing else, it is amazing the creativity we are seeing by those who won't lie down and take the crap being dished out. If only the people runnning the country showed even 10% creativity we ALL would be a lot better off.
The way out of this mess is JOBS, JOBS, JOBS


For someone who is not a socialist, ThomasB, I think you have defined that stage of society very well.
Not sure what part of what I said you refer to, but I do believe in a WIN WIN philosphy as clearly the WIN lose hasn't worked. Also WE as a society need to get more confident and respectful of ourselves and shout NO DEAL, when we are being shafted !!!! but then that would mean co-operating with each other :eek:

Ger ? Colleran acting for Vincent Browne tonight read out a text from someone who said "the Country is on the cusp of a revolution and he hopes it would not be bloody"
and Colleran said that he "didn't know what planet this man is on".

It would make you wonder whether some people get out at all.

Alas, as it stands, I fear we couldn't beat our way out of a wet paper bag. Until we are willing to work for the good of all, instead of the selfish selfinterested attitude most have.... there will be no revolution (unfortunately)

[Bertie Basher]

I am pulling my hair out thinking of ways or how to get this current govt out of office, regardless of what you may think of the opposition, 13 yrs of FF is more than I can stomach. Protests, I have attended few have been ineffective. I for one have just printed of an A4 page with the following in large font:

IRISH PEOPLE NEED A GENERAL ELECTION
with this underneath it:

JOIN ME AND STICK A PROTEST ON YOUR CAR WINDOW

I know little me won't cause a general election, but it will make me feel good driving with this on my car...simple/effective who knows, go on print one off and stick it on your cars :)

[C. Flower]

I am pulling my hair out thinking of ways or how to get this current govt out of office, regardless of what you may think of the opposition, 13 yrs of FF is more than I can stomach. Protests, I have attended few have been ineffective. I for one have just printed of an A4 page with the following in large font:

IRISH PEOPLE NEED A GENERAL ELECTION
with this underneath it:

JOIN ME AND STICK A PROTEST ON YOUR CAR WINDOW

I know little me won't cause a general election, but it will make me feel good driving with this on my car...simple/effective who knows, go on print one off and stick it on your cars :)

Doing something is better than doing nothing. One of these days soon, something is going to get traction.

[Binn Beal]

I like the car sticker idea.
Can anyone here design a nice one with a logo or picture?

[curious12]

I too am angry,frustrated, worried,dusillusioned, and sick and tired of the powers that be not being held to account for their ruination of our nation.

There are lots more like me, and more worse off than me . I am sticking that notice on my car too.

[Bertie Basher]

I like the car sticker idea.
Can anyone here design a nice one with a logo or picture?

I just did a simple print. But yep it would be good to have a logo or something. Once it is clear what we are trying to show, that the people want an election etc. Not very creative, but I am sure there is someone on here that could be.:)

[C. Flower]

I just did a simple print. But yep it would be good to have a logo or something. Once it is clear what we are trying to show, that the people want an election etc. Not very creative, but I am sure there is someone on here that could be.:)

If I do one, can I put Politicalworld.org really small at the bottom ?

[Bertie Basher]

If I do one, can I put Politicalworld.org really small at the bottom ?

Once it is as small as the FF logos at electoral campaigns :)

Of course ;)

[C. Flower]

Once it is as small as the FF logos at electoral campaigns :)

Of course ;)

I can live with that.

Wording then - ?

IRISH PEOPLE NEED A GENERAL ELECTION

JOIN ME AND STICK A PROTEST IN YOUR CAR WINDOW

[C. Flower]

[QUOTE=C. Flower;56735]I can live with that.

Wording then - ?

IRISH PEOPLE NEED A GENERAL ELECTION

JOIN ME AND STICK A PROTEST IN YOUR CAR WINDOW


WE NEED A GENERAL ELECTION NOW

JOIN ME AND STICK A PROTEST IN YOUR CAR WINDOW

[Binn Beal]

How about:

We demand a General Election now!

and
Get the ********* out! (kidding)

[Bertie Basher]

Irish citizens demand a general election

join me and stick a protest on your car window

[C. Flower]

How about:

We demand a General Election now!

and
Get the ********* out! (kidding)

IRISH PEOPLE WANT A GENERAL ELECTION NOW

A4 black and white horizontal ?

[Binn Beal]

Can I suggest that A4 is the wrong shape for a car sticker. You could however do two horizontally on an A4 sheet.

And on the slogan "We demand" is much stronger than "Irish citizens demand..." or "Irish people demand..." except you are doing a lot of driving around Europe and want to avoid confusion.

As regards a logo - there is some clip art on ballot papers. Maybe just a pic of a voting slip with "Vote" on it and a box to tick.

And yet another thing - slogans that are all in capital letters are harder to read.

[C. Flower]

Can I suggest that A4 is the wrong shape for a car sticker. You could however do two horizontally on an A4 sheet.

And on the slogan "We demand" is much stronger than "Irish citizens demand..." or "Irish people demand..." except you are doing a lot of driving around Europe and want to avoid confusion.

As regards a logo - there is some clip art on ballot papers. Maybe just a pic of a voting slip with "Vote" on it and a box to tick.

And yet another thing - slogans that are all in capital letters are harder to read.

OK - I'll do something by tomorrow morning !

[Binn Beal]

Here's a very sophisticated one that Richard Dawkins and co got out in the UK.

[C. Flower]

Here's a very sophisticated one that Richard Dawkins and co got out in the UK.

Mine's going to be a lot more basic than that. There are a couple of people here i can think of who might help do something more professional. I'll try pmming.

[Binn Beal]

Great. It would be good publicity for PW as well. I suspect that when we eventually get a general election there is going to be a lot more traffic around here.

[C. Flower]

I've made two and I have them as a jpg. It won't upload as the file is too big. Can anyone suggest a way around this ?

Ha! I've just remembered I'm the Admin. Perhaps I can give myself more uploading power...

One just said General Election NOW! and the other said "The Irish People Needs a General Election".

If anyone can suggest how I can upload them, thanks.

[C. Flower]

If anyone would like a (non-sticky) General Election sticker emailed, you can email me on admin@politicalworld.org or pm me.

[Binn Beal]

Printed and on the car.
I have some spares in the glove compartment in case anyone asks me for one.

By the way "The Irish People Needs..."
Shouldn't that be "The Irish People Need..."

[C. Flower]

Printed and on the car.
I have some spares in the glove compartment in case anyone asks me for one.

By the way "The Irish People Needs..."
Shouldn't that be "The Irish People Need..."

Ouch. I'll change that.

[Ah Well]

Printed and on the car.
I have some spares in the glove compartment in case anyone asks me for one.

By the way "The Irish People Needs..."
Shouldn't that be "The Irish People Need..."

Or it could read ... "The Irish People's Needs - A General Election" ;)

[C. Flower]

Well spoke! that woman on the Joe Duffy show....:)

[Ah Well]

Well spoke! that woman on the Joe Duffy show....:)

Bears the question - will Talk to Joe be seen as the Catalyst for an Upheaval :eek: .... nooo surely that can occur by some other means ;)

[Bertie Basher]

Well spoke! that woman on the Joe Duffy show....:)

Just podcasted Liveline now. VG ;)

[C. Flower]

Just podcasted Liveline now. VG ;)

Link, please :)

[Bertie Basher]

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_liveline.xml

and choose today's date, around 35 mins into show.

[wickedfairy]

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c135/theknitter/ffgetout.jpg

great foto Andrew, I hear the army are getting training in "crowd control" :D

[wickedfairy]

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_liveline.xml

and choose today's date, around 35 mins into show.

well, you have all been very busy today, havent you?;)

[Bertie Basher]

well, you have all been very busy today, havent you?;)

:) :) Joe's FF snigger was nice hey.

[C. Flower]

:) :) Joe's FF snigger was nice hey.

Yes,:) and the gasp of horror when the guy suggested everyone marched to the Phoenix Park.

Joe treads a fine line between populist venting and the possibility of losing his job if something came of it.

[Sam Lord]

Printed and on the car.
I have some spares in the glove compartment in case anyone asks me for one.

By the way "The Irish People Needs..."
Shouldn't that be "The Irish People Need..."

omg ....

[ThomasB]

Glad to see some enthusiasm for a general Election.

We really need to get rid of these self serving "Public Servants" and show Politicians "THEY" Will be held accountable.

Remember its our hard earned money that is being squandered, when will it hit people enough to actually get up off their backsides and stand together and DEMAND more respect, or have we lost all our pride ??

[Griska]

Regardless of the enthusiasm around Gilmore's popularity in the polls, the next leader of this country will be Enda Kenny. How bizarre that this sounds like a good thing!

I honestly wish there were a more radical alternative than a FG/Lab coalition, but really the current administration need to go.

[disability student]

Regardless of the enthusiasm around Gilmore's popularity in the polls, the next leader of this country will be Enda Kenny. How bizarre that this sounds like a good thing!

I honestly wish there were a more radical alternative than a FG/Lab coalition, but really the current administration need to go.

All we need to educate the voters the real presssing need for a radical alternative. The current govt has a moral bankruptancy and don't give a feck all. They -current government are only interested in themselves and their cronies whom they saved their precious investment in the toxic bank- Anglo Irish Bank.

[TotalMayhem]

All we need to educate the voters

Maybe we should educate the politicians instead? Do what is right for this country or get the fruitcake out!

Which better government to be run out of town as a lesson for the future than the one we have right now?

[disability student]

Maybe we should educate the politicians instead? Do what is right for this country or get the fruitcake out!

Which better government to be run out of town as a lesson for the future than the one we have right now?

What's the point of educating the politicans as they STILL don't get it for instance JOD defending his expenses saga, 'where's we are' Callely and his misuse of the expenses system et al.

Best way i think is to educate the voters/electorate so that they could exercise their voting properly instead of voting for FF gombeen party.

[TotalMayhem]

OK, let's get educated and vote for any of our precious opposition parties and see if they'll do better.

While Brian Cowan and Mary Coughlan and Brian Lenihan and John Gormley (enough, i'm getting sick already) enjoying their pensions and laughing their behinds off.

[Griska]

All we need to educate the voters the real presssing need for a radical alternative. The current govt has a moral bankruptancy and don't give a feck all. They -current government are only interested in themselves and their cronies whom they saved their precious investment in the toxic bank- Anglo Irish Bank.

I don't wish to sound aloof, but it will be hard to educate people when Eastenders is on three times a week. That may sound glib, but the fact is the majority of people are hooked on this ****.

[Slim Buddha]

Eastenders is on three times a week. That may sound glib, but the fact is the majority of people are hooked on this ****.

Four times a week. I heard Phil is on crack!

So it seems are the people of Ireland if the mildness of the posts here is anything to go by. The sheer thought of Harney, Coughlan, Dempsey, Biffo, O'Cuiv and the rest of the half-witted imbeciles that constitute this semi-criminal government is enough to send me into a rage and I don't even live there. For what they are doing to Ireland and the next two generations of Irishmen and Irishwomen, they want shooting, the lot of them.

Our geography punishes us every day.

[greengoose]

Four times a week. I heard Phil is on crack!

So it seems are the people of Ireland if the mildness of the posts here is anything to go by. The sheer thought of Harney, Coughlan, Dempsey, Biffo, O'Cuiv and the rest of the half-witted imbeciles that constitute this semi-criminal government is enough to send me into a rage and I don't even live there. For what they are doing to Ireland and the next two generations of Irishmen and Irishwomen, they want shooting, the lot of them.

Our geography punishes us every day.

I wouldn't put it down to geography. The other fish eating island in the North Atlantic at least had the balls to get rid of their gombeens. We have a defeatist attitude in this country.

On another well known political forum there is a long thread on the supposed leadership qualities of two "high achievers" who got excellent Leaving Certificate results and one who did well in the recent swimming championships. The notion seems to come through from the various agitated ramblings that these personal achievements should percolate on to the great unwashed and we would then have great leaders.

We seem to feed on the successes of others whilst sitting in front of the TV boring ourselves to death with Eastenders, Premiership football, Louis Walsh/Simon Cowel drivel. We also follow the travails of our great sportsmen.

That is the Irish attitude in a nutshell. We are prone to "respecting our betters".

[Binn Beal]

Television is the opium of the masses.

There is concensus here - as far as I can judge - that
(a) this government is rotten
(b) this government must be replaced.
(c) the only electoral alternative at the moment is FG/Lab.

Maybe we should consider alternative alternatives.

Is it possible to build a movement for a people's government, drawing on the experiences of the Civil Rights Movement and the ANC and the anti-corruption movements of Eastern Europe?

For me an alternative would have to be based on more public control of the economy and a fairer distribution of resources.

[C. Flower]

Regardless of the enthusiasm around Gilmore's popularity in the polls, the next leader of this country will be Enda Kenny. How bizarre that this sounds like a good thing!

I honestly wish there were a more radical alternative than a FG/Lab coalition, but really the current administration need to go.

It's no small job, in the middle of an economic shock, to jettison our entire political superstructure and its inhabitants.

I agree that this Government needs to be pushed out by "popular demand", because any replacement government would at least have to deal with people who new how to deal with governments.

But it couldn't be considered as more than a first step. The Icelanders changed to a left government and still found themselves dealing with the IMF. They stood firm though and voted down a Government referendum.

They are on their own. If a couple more countries did the same, the picture would start to change.

[greengoose]

Television is the opium of the masses.

There is concensus here - as far as I can judge - that
(a) this government is rotten
(b) this government must be replaced.
(c) the only electoral alternative at the moment is FG/Lab.

Maybe we should consider alternative alternatives.

Is it possible to build a movement for a people's government, drawing on the experiences of the Civil Rights Movement and the ANC and the anti-corruption movements of Eastern Europe?

For me an alternative would have to be based on more public control of the economy and a fairer distribution of resources.

None of this will ever happen unless we change our attitude! Maybe with the recent high achievement in LC and sport we will get some great leaders. :D

Frankly, if this morass gets you down get out and make a decent life for yourself elsehwere.

[C. Flower]

Television is the opium of the masses.

There is concensus here - as far as I can judge - that
(a) this government is rotten
(b) this government must be replaced.
(c) the only electoral alternative at the moment is FG/Lab.

Maybe we should consider alternative alternatives.

Is it possible to build a movement for a people's government, drawing on the experiences of the Civil Rights Movement and the ANC and the anti-corruption movements of Eastern Europe?

For me an alternative would have to be based on more public control of the economy and a fairer distribution of resources.

Sounds like a good idea to me and would have to be built up. It probably couldn't win the next election but the next election might come quite soon after.

But the "Colour revolutions" in Eastern Europe were Mary Harney type privatisation operations, Soros and US sponsored. My number one requirement will be a government that brings more resources, nor less, under public control.

[Binn Beal]

In the end of the day the only real alternative is the system that dare not speak its name -

[Slim Buddha]

I wouldn't put it down to geography. The other fish eating island in the North Atlantic at least had the balls to get rid of their gombeens. We have a defeatist attitude in this country.

On another well known political forum there is a long thread on the supposed leadership qualities of two "high achievers" who got excellent Leaving Certificate results and one who did well in the recent swimming championships. The notion seems to come through from the various agitated ramblings that these personal achievements should percolate on to the great unwashed and we would then have great leaders.

We seem to feed on the successes of others whilst sitting in front of the TV boring ourselves to death with Eastenders, Premiership football, Louis Walsh/Simon Cowel drivel. We also follow the travails of our great sportsmen.

That is the Irish attitude in a nutshell. We are prone to "respecting our betters".

Iceland is not English-speaking, is not bombarded by the worst excesses of US and UK "culture" and is far less prone to being influenced by US-UK political and economic "ideas", taking their influences mainly from Scandinavia. Lucky them.

[Slim Buddha]

In the end of the day the only real alternative is the system that dare not speak its name -

A David Norris-led dictatorship?

[Binn Beal]

A David Norris-led dictatorship?
It could be democratic too.

[greengoose]

Iceland is not English-speaking, is not bombarded by the worst excesses of US and UK "culture" and is far less prone to being influenced by US-UK political and economic "ideas", taking their influences mainly from Scandinavia. Lucky them.

We seem to be getting to the root of our problems. Attitude!

Funny you should mention UK culture. There we were fighting for freedom for nigh on 800 years and when it finally came we just couldn't live withour new freedom. We outgombeen the British gombeens at every "turning of the corner"

We don't have a language of our own and claim we are au point by speaking English. After all who else bothers having a native language apart from the Israelis, Swiss, Rumanians, Italians, French at the rest of the intelligent World?

We will always wallow in our misery and the gombeens will always fleece us. That it the way of the Fighting Irish.

[ThomasB]

Regardless of the enthusiasm around Gilmore's popularity in the polls, the next leader of this country will be Enda Kenny. How bizarre that this sounds like a good thing!

I honestly wish there were a more radical alternative than a FG/Lab coalition, but really the current administration need to go.

We need a shift from popularity to ACTION that provide RESULTS


All we need to educate the voters the real presssing need for a radical alternative. The current govt has a moral bankruptancy and don't give a feck all. They -current government are only interested in themselves and their cronies whom they saved their precious investment in the toxic bank- Anglo Irish Bank.

I agree we need to educate the voters and the best way to do this is by repititon of a simple message through all MEDIA streams and the Car posters are a brilliant idea


Maybe we should educate the politicians instead? Do what is right for this country or get the fruitcake out!

Which better government to be run out of town as a lesson for the future than the one we have right now?

I personally think the FULL political system is corrupt and needs to be replaced


What's the point of educating the politicans as they STILL don't get it for instance JOD defending his expenses saga, 'where's we are' Callely and his misuse of the expenses system et al.

Best way i think is to educate the voters/electorate so that they could exercise their voting properly instead of voting for FF gombeen party.

AGREED !!!!!

OK, let's get educated and vote for any of our precious opposition parties and see if they'll do better.


While Brian Cowan and Mary Coughlan and Brian Lenihan and John Gormley (enough, i'm getting sick already) enjoying their pensions and laughing their behinds off.

Vote for the opposition parties, but personally I woul vote for some of the NEW emerging groups parties, they may not be perfect !!! but they are a damm sight better alternative to the power hungry populist parties destroying our country today

I don't wish to sound aloof, but it will be hard to educate people when Eastenders is on three times a week. That may sound glib, but the fact is the majority of people are hooked on this ****.

That's why the Car posters are a gereat idea. Also Whineline is another good source (if you can get on, best way is don't mention you are part of a group)


Four times a week. I heard Phil is on crack!

So it seems are the people of Ireland if the mildness of the posts here is anything to go by. The sheer thought of Harney, Coughlan, Dempsey, Biffo, O'Cuiv and the rest of the half-witted imbeciles that constitute this semi-criminal government is enough to send me into a rage and I don't even live there. For what they are doing to Ireland and the next two generations of Irishmen and Irishwomen, they want shooting, the lot of them.

Our geography punishes us every day.

The problem Slim is not that people aren't angry, its that there is so much infighting going on. How can you win against the solidarity of FF - only by having solidarity on the other side - simple as :eek:

[ThomasB]

I wouldn't put it down to geography. The other fish eating island in the North Atlantic at least had the balls to get rid of their gombeens. We have a defeatist attitude in this country.

.......

That is the Irish attitude in a nutshell. We are prone to "respecting our betters".

Yes, where is the pride of the Irish and our fighting spirit gone.

We need to start respecting OURSELVES. I wonder how many "volunteers" would the People of 1916 get today :mad::confused:


Television is the opium of the masses.

There is concensus here - as far as I can judge - that
(a) this government is rotten
(b) this government must be replaced.
(c) the only electoral alternative at the moment is FG/Lab.

Maybe we should consider alternative alternatives.

Is it possible to build a movement for a people's government, drawing on the experiences of the Civil Rights Movement and the ANC and the anti-corruption movements of Eastern Europe?

For me an alternative would have to be based on more public control of the economy and a fairer distribution of resources.

There are at least 7 alternative PUBLIC parties/groups along with free thinking independants - try lending them some support instead of ignoring them.


It's no small job, in the middle of an economic shock, to jettison our entire political superstructure and its inhabitants.

I agree that this Government needs to be pushed out by "popular demand", because any replacement government would at least have to deal with people who new how to deal with governments.

But it couldn't be considered as more than a first step. The Icelanders changed to a left government and still found themselves dealing with the IMF. They stood firm though and voted down a Government referendum.

They are on their own. If a couple more countries did the same, the picture would start to change.

Subtle "defeatest" attitude here CF, I'm surprised.

The FACT is you can achieve anything if you BELIEVE strongly enough and are prepared to WORK at it. FEAR and status quo are Irelands biggest enemise now, try not to help these !!!


None of this will ever happen unless we change our attitude! Maybe with the recent high achievement in LC and sport we will get some great leaders. :D

Frankly, if this morass gets you down get out and make a decent life for yourself elsehwere.

Personal responsibility, theres a radical thought !!!


We seem to be getting to the root of our problems. Attitude!

Funny you should mention UK culture. There we were fighting for freedom for nigh on 800 years and when it finally came we just couldn't live withour new freedom. We outgombeen the British gombeens at every "turning of the corner"

We don't have a language of our own and claim we are au point by speaking English. After all who else bothers having a native language apart from the Israelis, Swiss, Rumanians, Italians, French at the rest of the intelligent World?

We will always wallow in our misery and the gombeens will always fleece us. That it the way of the Fighting Irish.

Sounds like you have given in too. To an attitude of poor me "We are all doomed"

We are not doomed and are at a point of GREAT OPPOURTUNITY, Stand together and we will suceed !!!