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Greengoddess
24-07-2013, 07:28 AM
@NChildersMEP: Release: Nessa Childers MEP will stand for Europe as an Independent within the European Socialists & Democrats Group

http://t.co/CDEHfgg0po (http://t.co/CDEHfgg0po)

‘This is a profoundly immoral way to run our country’ – Nessa Childers MEP
Ireland East MEP, Nessa Childers, has announced that she will contest next year’s European Parliament elections as an independent candidate within the European Socialists and Democrats Group.
In a letter to the Tánaiste and Labour Leader, Eamon Gilmore TD, today, Ms Childers said she had increasingly found herself discouraged and prevented from advocating a distinctive social democratic position within the Labour party. ’While I have remained constant in my views, the Labour leadership has drifted away from a progressive policy approach. My attitude is vilified as disloyal or opportunistic when, in fact, I am defending and promoting the party’s core values. For example, a low point for me was when the party leadership abandoned me for taking a principled stance of opposition to the appointment to the EU Court of Auditors of Mr Kevin Cardiff, who was Secretary General of the Department of Finance when the bank bailout was decided on.’
Ms Childers said her ability to work for the policies she was elected on - and still supports - is no longer compatible with membership of the Labour party. While she acknowledged that Labour ministers had done some good work, the government’s overall policy seemed to be one of never-ending, pointless austerity for austerity’s sake. ‘The government is on a reckless pursuit of moveable economic targets that has failed on unemployment and emigration and is inflicting misery on hundreds of thousands of men, women and children. It is a policy of cutting services like health, education and social protection while bankers, big corporates and the wealthy are allowed dodge their share of the burden. This is a profoundly immoral way to run our country’, she said.
Ms Childers continued: ‘The policy of austerity is discredited in Europe and, increasingly, at home. Reputable bodies like the Nevin Economic Research Institute, Social Justice Ireland and TASC have demonstrated that there is a viable alternative to the policies of slash and cut. This alternative includes no more cuts in public spending as well as making the wealthiest, the banks and the multinationals pay more tax’.
Ms Childers said she was determined to fight for a progressive alternative to austerity and she wanted to work for it in the new European Parliament. In her letter to Eamon Gilmore she emphasised that the Parliament is arguably more influential on people’s lives than the Dáil and she said: ‘For the sake of our people, it is critical that next year’s elections to the Parliament are a first step in breaking the conservative free-marketers stranglehold on the Parliament, the Council of Ministers and the Commission. That is what I plan to work and campaign for and in next year’s elections I will do so as an independent candidate within the European and Socialists Group.’
Last week, the Dáil and Seanad passed a Bill authorising the Minister for the Environment to establish a Committee to report within two months on redrawn boundaries for the European Parliament constituencies. Ms Childers said: ‘Because of the uncertainty over the new boundaries it is not yet possible to say where I will contest in 2014. In the meantime, I am fully committed to representing and working on behalf of people and groups in the constituency of Ireland East.’
In an email to members of the Labour Party in her constituency, the MEP said it was an honour to work with them on issues in the past and ‘I look forward to co-operating together as allies in support of the common principles and aims that we all support’.

Richardbouvet
24-07-2013, 09:14 AM
So Nessa joins the steady trickle of opportunists who value their own seats above all alse.

I can support Labour politicians who want to buld an alternative force, and if there is such a force I may well join it, but this is not what is happening. Instead, fair weather people like Nessa have decided to hold on to their perks and salaries while doing absolutely nothing for socialist politics.

Ogiol
24-07-2013, 09:25 AM
So Nessa joins the steady trickle of opportunists who value their own seats above all alse.

I can support Labour politicians who want to buld an alternative force, and if there is such a force I may well join it, but this is not what is happening. Instead, fair weather people like Nessa have decided to hold on to their perks and salaries while doing absolutely nothing for socialist politics.

I just saw that on Twitter. Nessa is gone from Labour. But what are all these ex-labourites gonna do?? Form a new party?

Captain Con O'Sullivan
24-07-2013, 09:42 AM
@NChildersMEP: Release: Nessa Childers MEP will stand for Europe as an Independent within the European Socialists & Democrats Group http://t.co/CDEHfgg0po

Best of luck to Nessa. There is a repeated sentence in the press release, btw, penultimate paragraph...

Binn Beal
24-07-2013, 09:54 AM
Good luck to her. It's like watching a chain sliding over a quay wall, link by link and then whoosh.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
24-07-2013, 10:42 AM
It will be like groundhog day for the locals and Euros next year- with labour party symbols reduced to microscopically small levels on candidate election posters.

disability student
24-07-2013, 12:52 PM
At the moment, Enda no longer isn't seen as honest broker and Gimmemore more of a spoofer par excellence are distracting the public via the media re wrong issues. Same sex marriage isn't an issue for us as it's employment allied with economy is more of a pressing issues to the electorate.

The real issues are none of cuts affected the govt ministers or their associates. Cuts were applied to bottom tier of the society while leaving the top tier such as Kenny/Gilmore/senior civil servants intact as none of their savings eroded with successive prices increases coming from the public bodies.

Shaadi
24-07-2013, 01:15 PM
So Nessa joins the steady trickle of opportunists who value their own seats above all alse.

I can support Labour politicians who want to buld an alternative force, and if there is such a force I may well join it, but this is not what is happening. Instead, fair weather people like Nessa have decided to hold on to their perks and salaries while doing absolutely nothing for socialist politics.I can see where you're coming from, but Nessa and Co did try the CLP route first and the hunger amongst members to tackle the leadership in the Labour Party just wasn't there in sufficient quantities to make a difference.

I salute Nessa for having the gumption to go to the personal expense of running as an Independent against the big budget party machines, because if she's not extremely careful she'll break herself financially in the process.

I'll gladly vote for her if she's in my constituency, but would urge her to run in Dublin as that's where she'll have the best chance and easiest access to free publicity IMO.

Richardbouvet
24-07-2013, 01:30 PM
The CLP route is not over. A revived CLP will be having a meeting in a few weeks to plan for the party's autumn conference.

The hunger among members you speak of is an open question. If another lousy budget does not sharpen the hunger, next year's locals might.

C. Flower
24-07-2013, 02:48 PM
100% congratulations to Nessa for her principled stand in the Labour Party and also for leaving.


[QUOTE]In a letter to Labour leader Eamon Gilmore, Childers said she had been “vilified” within the party for trying to advocate an alternative path for Labour and said the party was pursuing “never-ending, pointless austerity for austerity’s sake”.
Childers had already resigned from the parliamentary Labour party – which is made up of TDs, Senators and MEPs – in April but was still a Labour member. She follows the lead of TDs Patrick Nulty and Colm Keaveney who have also resigned from the party.
“While I have remained constant in my views, the Labour leadership has drifted away from a progressive policy approach,” Childers wrote.
My attitude is vilified as disloyal or opportunistic when, in fact, I am defending and promoting the party’s core values.

She cited the example of how she had opposed the appointment of Kevin Cardiff, the former Secretary General of the Department of Finance, to the EU Court of Auditors following controversy about his abilities, but said she felt “abandoned” by the party on the issue.
In the letter, she acknowledged that Labour ministers had done some good work, but criticised the party for its focus on the politics of austerity ahead of the more progressive politics that members expected from the party.
[The government is following a] policy of cutting services like health, education and social protection while bankers, big corporates and the wealthy are allowed dodge their share of the burden.


This is a profoundly immoral way to run our country.

Childers said she would fight for a progressive alternative to austerity in the European Parliament and said she will run as an independent candidate within the European and Socialists Group in next year’s elections. she said she does not yet know which constituency she will run in because of the changes to constituency boundaries.
Childers was originally a councillor for the Green Party on Dún Laoghaire Rathdown County Council in Dublin but rejoined the Labour party in 2008.
The European Parliament elections will be held between 22 and 25 May 2014.
(http://www.thejournal.ie/nessa-childers-resigns-labour-2-1006072-Jul2013/?utm_source=twitter_self)‘I couldn’t have gone on’ – Nessa Childers on trying to ‘save the Labour party’ > (http://www.thejournal.ie/nessa-childers-campaign-for-labour-policies-858956-Apr2013/)

‘Fair-weather friend’ Childers criticised by Labour TDs over resignation > (http://www.thejournal.ie/nessa-childers-resigns-labour-859249-Apr2013/)




http://www.thejournal.ie/nessa-childers-resigns-labour-2-1006072-Jul2013/?utm_source=twitter_self

Captain Con O'Sullivan
24-07-2013, 02:59 PM
Notice the Fianna Fail-style reaction from other Labour TDs. Presumably they are happy applying austerity policies to the average citizen as an example is set in blind party loyalty.

rebellin
24-07-2013, 03:17 PM
Thank you Nessa Childers! Her honest criticism of the Labour Party's acceptance of "never ending, pointless austerity for austerity's sake" should be the measure of any candidate's suitability. She says "This is a profoundly immoral way to run our country." That's the bottom line, plain and simple.

Dr. FIVE
24-07-2013, 03:20 PM
the steady trickle of opportunists who value their own seats above all alse.

hold on to their perks and salaries while doing absolutely nothing for socialist politics.


If another lousy budget does not sharpen the hunger, next year's locals might.

..

C. Flower
24-07-2013, 03:26 PM
So Nessa joins the steady trickle of opportunists who value their own seats above all alse.

I can support Labour politicians who want to buld an alternative force, and if there is such a force I may well join it, but this is not what is happening. Instead, fair weather people like Nessa have decided to hold on to their perks and salaries while doing absolutely nothing for socialist politics.

Not at all. The fair-weather people have held on to "Government," and have shafted the people who voted for them.

I think that Nessa Childers may well have considered that in Labour, she had no political future, but she has consistently taken the hard road in opposing neo liberalism and exposing Cardiff's appointment - and speaking out publicly when bullied. There are still some people who have an awareness of what it took to break free, even to some extent, from the British, and have some better idea for the country than trying to reproduce a little Britain of social division, petty elitism, and of destruction of communal and social resources and values.

Kev Bar
24-07-2013, 03:33 PM
So Nessa joins the steady trickle of opportunists who value their own seats above all alse.

I can support Labour politicians who want to buld an alternative force, and if there is such a force I may well join it, but this is not what is happening. Instead, fair weather people like Nessa have decided to hold on to their perks and salaries while doing absolutely nothing for socialist politics.


Surely hanging in there would back your thesis rather than resigning.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
24-07-2013, 03:37 PM
Well I'd soft-pedal the 'communal and social resources and values' CF if I were you with regard to Ireland because it is a socially conservative backwater obsessed with property from the peasant right to the rentier class and our 'social values' were in the pocket of the paedophile cult for long enough.

Britain has never had a Republic except briefly but they have to their credit taken the head off a monarch when they got angry with rentier injustice and came fairly close to taking the heads of one or two others from time to time.

The only time we've had an equally applied rule of law was over a thousand years ago when petty kings could tumble as hard as anyone if they abused the people and that was in a hierarchical system which allowed social movement drastically up or down the scale but was always tied to property- whether land or cattle.

To pretend that we shared social values in any time in recorded memory would be as false as the notion of the current Republic.

'Labour' was always only an adoption from abroad like a flake stuck as an afterthought in a political ice-cream and Labour leadership is part of the rentier class like FF and FG. Same as the Greens and the PD leadership. There was never any danger of a republic breaking out beyond expressionism in the arts and a Tir Na N'og modern children's story for schoolrooms.

Richardbouvet
24-07-2013, 03:37 PM
Not so, Kev. Nessa knows she was unlikely to keep her seat next year if she had any connection to Labour.

The loyal Labour backbenchers have 2-3 years left before their hour of reckoning comes.

disability student
24-07-2013, 03:51 PM
Labour isn't a socialist party any more as their policies now defined them as right wing party like the PD's. Gimme-more had destroyed two political parties in his wake (DL, WP) and he is in the process of doing a 3rd political party. He's not a true Lab per se, more like of a hybrid one. Grass roots of Lab party can't get rid of him which is a laughing stock really. What's the point of voting Labour in the coming elections such as European/Local as their leopard spots hasn't changed if anything at all

Alarm bells has rung re Austerity policies and their connection to neo -liberalism as ex-IMF guy had said that Austerity policies doesn't work at all ever. That said, it only has made it a lot worse - unemployment soaring, debts tripled and magnified, domestic demand huge slump due to successive insertion of various stealth taxes such as water tax, property tax, USC, so forth with incomes reduced by 25% or more.

It has illustrated a true picture of a 'stagnant recession economy' that we are now saddled with very little sight of recovery in the next decade. Labour are backing their 'austerity' policies to a full hilt, which they deserved to be despised, destroyed and demolished like the Green party previously.

Most of the Lab ministers are riding to the sunset of their lives with their gold plated pensions intact (whose pensions didn't suffer re brunt of various cuts applied). These ministers have no intention of standing in the next elections.

Kev Bar
24-07-2013, 03:54 PM
Not so, Kev. Nessa knows she was unlikely to keep her seat next year if she had any connection to Labour.

The loyal Labour backbenchers have 2-3 years left before their hour of reckoning comes.

Sure. But there is nothing at all certain about the indie route.

Saoirse go Deo
24-07-2013, 03:56 PM
..
lol!

C. Flower
24-07-2013, 06:06 PM
Well I'd soft-pedal the 'communal and social resources and values' CF if I were you with regard to Ireland because it is a socially conservative backwater obsessed with property from the peasant right to the rentier class and our 'social values' were in the pocket of the paedophile cult for long enough.

Well, Captain, I am not saying it was ever a socialist paradise here, but there was an assumption that people would get a water supply and emergency medical care and a house, if they needed one. 7% of the country (forest) was owned by the public, there was Gas, ESB and telecoms run by the state, as well as bus and rail transport.
Many other responsibilities were outsourced to the cult, it is true.

Now we are going to get "free GP care" if we pay an annual fee in advance, and (outsourced) health services will be provided only if we pay a compulsory insurance fee. Everything that stands still long enough will be sold off to cronies and international asset strippers. There is a melt down process going on, because, as DS pointed out, austerity has never "worked" even in IMF terms.

It is a problem that people have again been sold the "we must all tighten out belts for the common good" - but the reality is that it is good for no one apart from people specialising in fire sales and those with the cash to buy in them.


Britain has never had a Republic except briefly but they have to their credit taken the head off a monarch when they got angry with rentier injustice and came fairly close to taking the heads of one or two others from time to time.

Britain's revolution brought in capitalism: a progressive thing in its time, but that was about four hundred years ago.


The only time we've had an equally applied rule of law was over a thousand years ago when petty kings could tumble as hard as anyone if they abused the people and that was in a hierarchical system which allowed social movement drastically up or down the scale but was always tied to property- whether land or cattle.

To pretend that we shared social values in any time in recorded memory would be as false as the notion of the current Republic.

Communal values were never shared by the wealthy, but they were obliged to make concessions to them.


'Labour' was always only an adoption from abroad like a flake stuck as an afterthought in a political ice-cream and Labour leadership is part of the rentier class like FF and FG. Same as the Greens and the PD leadership. There was never any danger of a republic breaking out beyond expressionism in the arts and a Tir Na N'og modern children's story for schoolrooms.

Connolly was a genuine expression of the Irish working class. Fine Gael and Fianna Fail have done their best to keep that dangerous beast either in the hands of non-union US corporates, dispersed across a multitude of granted aided IDA sites across rural Ireland, or an emigration ships.

There is also a persistent strain of revolutionary republicanism that refuses to go away, in spite of the apparently unconducive conditions, and that has yet to come into its own.

Captain Con O'Sullivan
24-07-2013, 06:34 PM
That revolutionary republicanism you speak of was most effective when it was collected around nationalism. And Connolly was a Scot and not Irish.

He's a hero of mine but he recognised the usefulness of a collective feeling for a country or separate society. Socialism now refuses to get into that so ghettoises itself into an academic internationalism of the proletariat which simply does not exist.

The international 'class' discussion is around tax evasion and corporations and while it is possible to motivate people to strike for a better nation or society close around them no working and middle class anywhere are going to strike out for the freedom of a working class or middle class somewhere else.

Connolly might have theorised about the international proletariat in the era of the assembly lines, the steel works and the shipping yard but he was practical when it came to revolutionary republicanism around the national symbol. Which is why his message was much more powerful than international academic theorising.

Spectabilis
24-07-2013, 08:42 PM
I wish Nessa Childers all the best in going the independent route. It will be very difficut with such a large constituency as a European one to canvass, without any party support or financial assistance. I hope she has a strong group of supporters. I wish her well and it has been great to have an independent critique of Labour here on PW.

C. Flower
24-07-2013, 08:46 PM
That revolutionary republicanism you speak of was most effective when it was collected around nationalism. And Connolly was a Scot and not Irish.

He's a hero of mine but he recognised the usefulness of a collective feeling for a country or separate society. Socialism now refuses to get into that so ghettoises itself into an academic internationalism of the proletariat which simply does not exist.

The international 'class' discussion is around tax evasion and corporations and while it is possible to motivate people to strike for a better nation or society close around them no working and middle class anywhere are going to strike out for the freedom of a working class or middle class somewhere else.

Connolly might have theorised about the international proletariat in the era of the assembly lines, the steel works and the shipping yard but he was practical when it came to revolutionary republicanism around the national symbol. Which is why his message was much more powerful than international academic theorising.

Connolly was an internationalist, but also a materialist, who knew that in Ireland national liberation was important. And the way Irish took on British colonialism inspired millions across the British Empire.

Spectabilis
24-07-2013, 08:49 PM
Connolly was an internationalist, but also a materialist, who knew that in Ireland national liberation was important. And the way Irish took on British colonialism inspired millions across the British Empire.

,,and a feminist.

C. Flower
24-07-2013, 08:57 PM
,,and a feminist.

:)

And a cyclist.

MediaBite
24-07-2013, 09:12 PM
Not at all. The fair-weather people have held on to "Government," and have shafted the people who voted for them.

I think that Nessa Childers may well have considered that in Labour, she had no political future, but she has consistently taken the hard road in opposing neo liberalism and exposing Cardiff's appointment - and speaking out publicly when bullied. There are still some people who have an awareness of what it took to break free, even to some extent, from the British, and have some better idea for the country than trying to reproduce a little Britain of social division, petty elitism, and of destruction of communal and social resources and values.

Well said. Congratulations and thanks to Nessa Childers. This is not a self-interested act. It took a lot of courage, though perhaps a little too long to find that courage.

Richardbouvet
24-07-2013, 09:35 PM
Nessa Childers will achieve absolutely nothing as an independent MEP.

If Labour defectors do not start a new party then they really are doing nothing but nursing their own constituencies.

RaggedTrousers
24-07-2013, 09:40 PM
I don't think the public have much patience with flip floppers. I think her political career is irreparably damaged.

Greengoddess
24-07-2013, 09:59 PM
I don't think the public have much patience with flip floppers. I think her political career is irreparably damaged.

The Labour Party itself is irreparebly damaged. Attacking people won't work any more. There are too many now

Greengoddess
24-07-2013, 10:01 PM
Nessa Childers will achieve absolutely nothing as an independent MEP.

If Labour defectors do not start a new party then they really are doing nothing but nursing their own constituencies.
There is already and Independent Mep. Marian Harkin. They are usually members of one of the EP groups

MediaBite
24-07-2013, 10:03 PM
I wish Nessa Childers all the best in going the independent route. It will be very difficut with such a large constituency as a European one to canvass, without any party support or financial assistance. I hope she has a strong group of supporters. I wish her well and it has been great to have an independent critique of Labour here on PW.

People are crying out for this sort of stand. We're all heartily sick of political 'strategists', second-guessing people's worst instincts and appealing to us on those grounds - while also selling the idea that their own selfish ambition is synonymous with the public interest. A vile species, the politician, as a rule.

fluffybiscuits
25-07-2013, 03:45 PM
I don't think the public have much patience with flip floppers. I think her political career is irreparably damaged.

If the chips are down why not throw the hat into the ring then? Nessa has not been afraid to be a voice of dissent within the ranks of an organisation that has systematically screwed people over financially and socially to get into government whilst whoring themselves to FG. Nessa is coming in off the back of a terrible time for Labour, she is taking a chance and unless she didnt believe she had a chance going independent then she would not have left. Sincerely wish Nessa all the best and sincerely hope that she does well :)

rebellin
29-07-2013, 04:16 AM
Nessa Childers, in a 28 July Indo interview, charges that she was bullied by senior Labour Party members

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/childers-labour-figures-bullied-me-29453858.html

Greengoddess
29-07-2013, 08:45 AM
Gilmore calls Cian and myself " deserters ". Awful stuff of Stalinist origin. Just to knock further propaganda no the end, far from being an opportunist I have made things difficult for myself by running as an Indo. Just that I will go down with some political self respect. Taking money from them would be thirty pieces if silver. Price of everything value of nothing has governed elections almost for ever. And maybe economics.
However I expect black ops and punishment to pursue me almost beyond the grave.

jmcc
29-07-2013, 09:04 AM
Might make for an excellent Phoenix cover - the before and after Labour Party with the Stalinists erasing people from photos of the Labour Party PP. It is heading towards the before photo being the Labour Party and the after just being the Stickies and "fellow travellers". :)

I wonder if some Stickie will stand up at the LP conference and say something like this:
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Gilmore that all members are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"

Regards...jmcc

Greengoddess
29-07-2013, 09:14 AM
Might make for an excellent Phoenix cover - the before and after Labour Party with the Stalinists erasing people from photos of the Labour Party PP. It is heading towards the before photo being the Labour Party and the after just being the Stickies and "fellow travellers". :)

I wonder if some Stickie will stand up at the LP conference and say something like this:
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Gilmore that all members are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"

Regards...jmcc

Hah! Maybe Goldhawk follows pw...
Odd silence from Joan burton on any of this stuff. Not impressed really but she is really making trouble for them all the same.*

Garibaldy
29-07-2013, 11:27 AM
Gilmore calling anyone a deserter is a joke. He deserted socialism 21 years ago.

disability student
29-07-2013, 11:33 AM
Gilmore calling anyone a deserter is a joke. He deserted socialism 21 years ago.

Well said as he had destroyed two other political parties in his wake (Democratic left and Worker's party). Glad that i refused to shake hands with him in pre election campaign.

Practically Labour is more like PD's now as they were both advocating for scrap of the Senate and the implementation of Neo- Liberalism policy.

Perhaps Mc Dowell should join in :)

jmcc
29-07-2013, 11:35 AM
Gilmore calling anyone a deserter is a joke. He deserted socialism 21 years ago.Was he ever a socialist? That "pavillion members" quote from Rabbitte isn't exactly what would be expected from a good socialist either - it is a golfing reference. But it does reflect the whole social climbing aspect of these 'socialists'. :)

Regards...jmcc

Greengoddess
29-07-2013, 12:09 PM
Was he ever a socialist? That "pavillion members" quote from Rabbitte isn't exactly what would be expected from a good socialist either - it is a golfing reference. But it does reflect the whole social climbing aspect of these 'socialists'. :)

Regards...jmcc
Yes good point. During the 2009 election campaign labour became very worried that Childers didn't know any of the people that hung around the likes of Doheny and Nesbitts and might have money to donate. I was made to feel like an idiot. I did too. For a few hours! The I began to wonder....too late of course . I suppose I was an idiot but not in that way.

Saoirse go Deo
29-07-2013, 12:54 PM
I'd well believe you were bullied, the snide insults reported in the media and the total lack of respect shown for you is all the proof that anyone needs.

Newsy
29-07-2013, 01:11 PM
I sincerely wish Nessa Childers well as she soldiers on as an Independent. That won't be easy, but you will have clean shoes and your moral compass will be exactly that.....YOURS. Your compass has led you into conflict with the labour leadership of e.g Cardiff's appointment and I congratulate you on your stand.

I voted for Labour in the last election and I have truly regretted it. I don't recognise this Labour party in gov. They are a disgrace. It truly is no wonder that we are cynical about politics, when Labour pursue the policies of fg. Gilmore is such a disappointment.

rebellin
29-07-2013, 04:12 PM
@ Green Goddess
Friedrich Schiller. the great poet of freedom said; "To save all we must risk all"

Thank you for the risks you are taking and the example you are setting.

Holly
29-07-2013, 05:24 PM
If I'm around, I'll give serious consideration to voting for Nessa Childers at the next elections.

Greengoddess
29-07-2013, 05:45 PM
@ Green Goddess
Friedrich Schiller. the great poet of freedom said; "To save all we must risk all"

Thank you for the risks you are taking and the example you are setting.
What "risking all" means could be fairly gruesome. These people are capable of destroying someone's character with no truth behind it and of relentless pursuit. It is partly the result of the ethos of the former democratic left but widely colluded with in the PLP. I personally wish they had NEVER merged with Labour. Equally the next putative leader is silent on this. If she wants any of the resignees back that will have to change. Not me of course. The technique here to to frighten anyone else from protest.

Jolly Red Giant
29-07-2013, 06:15 PM
What "risking all" means could be fairly gruesome. These people are capable of destroying someone's character with no truth behind it and of relentless pursuit. It is partly the result of the ethos of the former democratic left but widely colluded with in the PLP. I personally wish they had NEVER merged with Labour. Equally the next putative leader is silent on this. If she wants any of the resignees back that will have to change. Not me of course. The technique here to to frighten anyone else from protest.

With all due respect Nessa - the LP leadership have been doing this for decades - they splt the LP in the 1940s when Larkin joined - they hounded Browne in the 1970s - they attempted to destroy Joe Higgins and witch hunted members of the Militant out of the LP in the 1980s - the antics of the current leadership are nothing new and nothing to do with the merger with the DL - it is par for the course for the neo-liberal leadership of Labour. Anyone who was or is a candidate or elected representative of the LP who didn't understand how the leadership operate is showing a major level of political naivety.

Shaadi
29-07-2013, 06:19 PM
What "risking all" means could be fairly gruesome. These people are capable of destroying someone's character with no truth behind it and of relentless pursuit. It is partly the result of the ethos of the former democratic left but widely colluded with in the PLP. I personally wish they had NEVER merged with Labour. Equally the next putative leader is silent on this. If she wants any of the resignees back that will have to change. Not me of course. The technique here to to frighten anyone else from protest.Hi GG, would the SDLP brand appeal to any of the more old fashioned Labour party types? They strike me as two groups that could combine forces to the mutual benefit of each other. The SDLP surely need a bit of a cross border presence to give them some cred and the SDLP always have had a high degree of public support from the south which would give any one running under their banner down south a good start..

Greengoddess
29-07-2013, 06:22 PM
With all due respect Nessa - the LP leadership have been doing this for decades - they splt the LP in the 1940s when Larkin joined - they hounded Browne in the 1970s - they attempted to destroy Joe Higgins and witch hunted members of the Militant out of the LP in the 1980s - the antics of the current leadership are nothing new and nothing to do with the merger with the DL - it is par for the course for the neo-liberal leadership of Labour. Anyone who was or is a candidate or elected representative of the LP who didn't understand how the leadership operate is showing a major level of political naivety.
I'm afraid that level of naively exists!

Greengoddess
29-07-2013, 06:24 PM
Hi GG, would the SDLP brand appeal to any of the more old fashioned Labour party types? They strike me as two groups that could combine forces to the mutual benefit of each other. The SDLP surely need a bit of a cross border presence to give them some cred and the SDLP always have had a high degree of public support from the south which would give any one running under their banner down south a good start..
Well there is a problem at this point, many of the old fashioned labour types are still in Labour! Either they will leave gov or implode.

Saoirse go Deo
29-07-2013, 06:40 PM
Out of the frying pan and into the fire by joining the SDLP - they're fast becoming a dying irrelevance. (if they are not there already) Aside from that they are hardly a party of the left.

Ogiol
29-07-2013, 07:24 PM
The SDLP.... who are they??

Frankie Lee
29-07-2013, 07:34 PM
What stopped them merging with FF in the end?

Shaadi
29-07-2013, 07:53 PM
Out of the frying pan and into the fire by joining the SDLP - they're fast becoming a dying irrelevance. (if they are not there already) Aside from that they are hardly a party of the left.There's nothing remotely left about the Labour party bar the Liberal agenda. They're a social democrat wing of FG, but they also like to see themselves as the party of the nice people who care about social equality. The democratic centralists and right wing careerists have killed off Labour's caring face, which was an excellent vote catcher. Now the more socially conservative and genuinely caring Labour members are left with a rapidly shrinking party, musical chairs if you like with SF/FF/Others taking their seats for good. Game as good as over, what's a theoretically nice small c conservative Social Democrat supposed to do, why not team up with a brand which has appeal to southern voters. Critical mass and positive brand recognition are everything in politics. The SDLP need to reinvent themselves, well why not become a proper 32 county party and reinvigorate themselves, avoiding the toxicity of the FF link while still appealing quite strongly to the FF/FG/Labour voters whose parties have put the harmless good guy SDLP up on a pedestal for decades.?

A perfect fit for the likes of the rural Labour TD types.

Binn Beal
29-07-2013, 08:15 PM
In my humble opinion no member of the SDLP would save his/her deposit in any election in the Republic.

Shaadi
29-07-2013, 08:29 PM
In my humble opinion no member of the SDLP would save his/her deposit in any election in the Republic.Let's say for the crack of it that Róisín Shortall ran under the SDLP banner? Ask the average middle aged FF/FG or Labour voter how they feel about the SDLP, decent people in their eyes, in fact an untainted FF/FG/LAB party substitute is exactly what many disgruntled MOR voters are looking for.

fluffybiscuits
31-07-2013, 03:56 PM
I'd well believe you were bullied, the snide insults reported in the media and the total lack of respect shown for you is all the proof that anyone needs.

+1


A point that should be exploited and used to get other members to get them to jump ship too. Nesaa cannot be the only one being subject to bullboy tactics surely? Better to be an outcast than be a conformist if you ask me...

Greengoddess
31-07-2013, 04:16 PM
+1


A point that should be exploited and used to get other members to get them to jump ship too. Nesaa cannot be the only one being subject to bullboy tactics surely? Better to be an outcast than be a conformist if you ask me...
Unfortunately such tactics and accusations of desertion, isolation and favoring colleagues are being used to STOP others. Awful stuff. You spend a lot of time having to endure stuff.

Holly
31-07-2013, 05:59 PM
I'll probably vote Independent from now on.

disability student
31-07-2013, 06:30 PM
Unfortunately such tactics and accusations of desertion, isolation and favoring colleagues are being used to STOP others. Awful stuff. You spend a lot of time having to endure stuff.

Why don't you name them as bullying is unacceptable in any form?

Once you name them as it would cease. On the other hand, if you continue to keep silent without naming them as bullying will continue irrespective.

It's thundering disgrace that Labour senior politicians are doing this form of tactic so was FG too re Abortion bill which I would strongly use free vote.

Holly
31-07-2013, 07:33 PM
Why don't you name them as bullying is unacceptable in any form? ...

On several occasions I have seen Pat Rabbitte ridicule other politicians including Labour colleagues who have not done as he told them. The Leader of the Labour Party does the same and I have heard other Parliamentary Labour Party members, such as Aodhán Ó Riordáin, badmouth disobedient Labour TDs. By-and-large, the Labour ministers demean TDs who who refuse to kow-tow to them and obedient TDs are resentful of those who have the nerve to speak their minds.

Greengoddess
31-07-2013, 09:40 PM
On several occasions I have seen Pat Rabbitte ridicule other politicians including Labour colleagues who have not done as he told them. The Leader of the Labour Party does the same and I have heard other Parliamentary Labour Party members, such as Aodhán Ó Riordáin, badmouth disobedient Labour TDs. By-and-large, the Labour ministers demean TDs who who refuse to kow-tow to them and obedient TDs are resentful of those who have the nerve to speak their minds.
This is a very accurate description. I both those groups feel exposed now. Odd that. Displays of contempt are in general hugely destructive in any group. Displays of other forms of anger not do much.

fluffybiscuits
07-08-2013, 03:54 PM
Good luck to Nessa in the local elections , hope she does well :)

Greengoddess
07-08-2013, 06:03 PM
[QUOTE=fluffybiscuits;348686]Good luck to Nessa in the local elections , hope she does well :)[/
Running in the locals? Gosh! One is always the last to know....

fluffybiscuits
07-08-2013, 06:04 PM
[QUOTE=fluffybiscuits;348686]Good luck to Nessa in the local elections , hope she does well :)[/
Running in the locals? Gosh! One is always the last to know....

Europeans I meant!

That was a real facepalm moment from me....*huddles back to corner*!

Greengoddess
07-08-2013, 06:06 PM
[QUOTE=Greengoddess;348728]

Europeans I meant!

That was a real facepalm moment from me....*huddles back to corner*!

Actually the paper of record made the same mistake!

C. Flower
10-09-2013, 05:07 PM
Nessa Childers says she will have to raise and arm and a leg (around €100,000) to fund her EP reelection campaign.



http://www.thejournal.ie/nessa-childers-re-election-1077582-Sep2013/?utm_source=twitter_self

Saoirse go Deo
10-09-2013, 06:47 PM
Is it worth it? May be ignorance on my behalf but off the top of my head I can't think of anything of note that Irish MEPS have done, whereas I think of many good things 100k can do

Sam Lord
11-09-2013, 01:38 AM
Is it worth it?

To her? Probably.



MEPs are paid an average £83,000 per year, compared to MPs in Britain, who have an annual salary of £65,738.
They also receive a daily "subsistence allowance" of £265, they can be refunded up to £3,600 per year for other travel outside their own country, and be reimbursed for up to 24 return journeys within their own country. Members also receive up to £242,000 annually in staff salaries and office expenses and benefit from a generous health care and pension system. It is estimated that an MEP can cost around £400,000-a-year.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8441261/MEPs-vote-to-keep-world-beating-salaries-and-allowances.html

rebellin
11-09-2013, 04:28 AM
To her? Probably.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8441261/MEPs-vote-to-keep-world-beating-salaries-and-allowances.html

Come on now. You know very well that she's not taking all the Labour Party bullying and media put downs she's been getting for the money. What's wrong with you? You're a moderator and seem to usually steer away from personal put downs, but I've noticed a few lately. Polemics are fine, personal put downs are childish. Are you quite alright?

Greengoddess
11-09-2013, 05:41 AM
2012

Gross Amount

€95,482.44

Accident Insurance

€115.68

Taxable Amount

€95,366.76

European Community Tax

€20,958.12

European Parliament Net

€74,408.64

Irish Income Tax & USC

€13,804.00

Irish Net Income

€60,604.64

Sam Lord
11-09-2013, 06:36 AM
2012

Gross Amount

€95,482.44

Accident Insurance

€115.68

Taxable Amount

€95,366.76

European Community Tax

€20,958.12

European Parliament Net

€74,408.64

Irish Income Tax & USC

€13,804.00

Irish Net Income

€60,604.64

60K yoyos a year after tax is not to be sneezed at. And you forgot to mention the €304 a day "subsistence allowance" which must add up to a tidy sum by the end of the year. Your health care is covered which is worth a few bob and of course the pension which kicks in at the age of 63 increases with every year spent in the parliament.

Greengoddess
11-09-2013, 06:59 AM
Oh dear. Sam your tone is aggressive and constantly sneering. I will post my entire finances in the next post. I have to go listen to the woeful Barrosso and how State of the Union address. If you are wondering whether we should exist at all, Or whether we are any use, I wonder that too. I don't like your tone though and I won't post on this thread again.

Sam Lord
11-09-2013, 07:00 AM
Come on now. You know very well that she's not taking all the Labour Party bullying and media put downs she's been getting for the money.


Do I know that? Not really. I do know the Labour brand is now toxic for anyone hoping to get re-elected. And she has stated that she enjoys being in the EU parliament. Sure why wouldn't she ...

Personally, I don't think the Labour Party has really changed one iota in recent years. It is what it always was. Another bourgeois party dedicated to supporting the capitalist system. That Childers was happy to join it in the first place speaks volumes to me.



What's wrong with you? You're a moderator and seem to usually steer away from personal put downs, but I've noticed a few lately. Polemics are fine, personal put downs are childish. Are you quite alright?

I'm fine thank you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with me. I act as a mod to help ensure that people post within the site rules. It does not preclude me from posting my opinions. And if that involves "putting someone down" well so be it. Personally, I cannot believe that anyone is that detached from reality to actually believe that taking a seat in the EU parliament can somehow assist the people of Ireland. They must do it for other reasons. The EU is the project of the biggest capitalists in Europe and the EU parliament is its fig leaf of "democracy". They are crucifying the people of Greece and elsewhere and, in my opinion, anyone sitting in EU institutions and lending its work legitimacy is earning blood money.

Greengoddess
11-09-2013, 07:00 AM
http://www.nessachilders.ie/transparency/financialreport11.html

Sam Lord
11-09-2013, 07:27 AM
http://www.nessachilders.ie/transparency/financialreport11.html

Well, that was an eye opener. 6 staff at the cost of a quarter million euros a year. For what?

And €30K spent in 2012 on taking 106 people (from "community groups" and the Labour Party) on a one day junket to Brussels. For what? Over 5 years that would be 530 people flown to Brussels for a day at the total cost of €150,000.

And families in Ireland are wondering if they will make it to the end of the month.

C. Flower
11-09-2013, 07:55 AM
60K yoyos a year after tax is not to be sneezed at. And you forgot to mention the €304 a day "subsistence allowance" which must add up to a tidy sum by the end of the year. Your health care is covered which is worth a few bob and of course the pension which kicks in at the age of 63 increases with every year spent in the parliament.

I have never been able to get a clear answer from SF elected reps about whether or not they get to keep their expenses (salaries are capped and part go to the party, do they not?)

C. Flower
11-09-2013, 08:08 AM
Is it worth it? May be ignorance on my behalf but off the top of my head I can't think of anything of note that Irish MEPS have done, whereas I think of many good things 100k can do

From my point of view, standing out against Kevin Cardiff, the IFSC, supporting a Financial Tax, opposing the austerity agenda, pushing for control of Brussels corporate lobbying, would be a few of the things Nessa Childers has done that have been worthwhile.

Many people, myself included, feel that the whole EU project is wrong (austerity project in action from day one, aimed at dismantling the social economy in favour of untrammeled corporate economy). Also, the European Parliament is basically a consultative body, rather than a governing body. The only real decision it seems to make is to vote on the EU budget, but pigs will fly before they actually stop it. But she appears to have done more as an individual than the Socialist Party or SF have done in her MEP role.

Not sure how Nessa voted on the salaries and expenses issue.

Apjp
11-09-2013, 08:19 AM
maybe she should pay more tax and get less expenses but we cannot just single her out. she is up there with galloway as a politician who actually engages with the publicand if elected in the next ge could be a similar point of opposition.

People on that type of wage should pay fifty percent tax. I don't understand why any expenses beyond plane tickets are necessary.
Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk 2

WhistleblowerIRL
11-09-2013, 08:26 AM
From my point of view, standing out against Kevin Cardiff, the IFSC, supporting a Financial Tax, opposing the austerity agenda, pushing for control of Brussels corporate lobbying, would be a few of the things Nessa Childers has done that have been worthwhile.



I'm afraid I have to disagree entirely. My own dealings with Nessa regarding regular liquidity breaches at IFSC-based UniCredit prove ....[edit]. Her response to me on PW just proves that once again. [... ...Edit]. As the ex Risk Manager of a 30 billion Euro bank in the IFSC, I would have thought Nessa's attitude towards me would be a bit more genuine - IF she had the slightest concern about the IFSC.

Jolly Red Giant
11-09-2013, 05:53 PM
I have never been able to get a clear answer from SF elected reps about whether or not they get to keep their expenses (salaries are capped and part go to the party, do they not?)
About three years ago a Dail worker for SF confirmed to me that SF TDs received a salary of the AIW and kept their Dail expenses. I do not know if this is still the case.

The issue of the AIW will increasingly become an issue for SF - apparently there have already been rumblings amongst some of the newer TDs demanding it be dropped.

Jolly Red Giant
11-09-2013, 05:56 PM
Well, that was an eye opener. 6 staff at the cost of a quarter million euros a year. For what?
The staff is paid directly by the EU. Each MEP is allocated up to six staff members for admin, research, logisitcal support etc.


And €30K spent in 2012 on taking 106 people (from "community groups" and the Labour Party) on a one day junket to Brussels. For what? Over 5 years that would be 530 people flown to Brussels for a day at the total cost of €150,000.
That is also another one of the 'perks' available -


And families in Ireland are wondering if they will make it to the end of the month.
MEPs are paid the same salary as TDs - more expenses are available but there are tighter restrictions on what they are used for.

C. Flower
11-09-2013, 06:31 PM
About three years ago a Dail worker for SF confirmed to me that SF TDs received a salary of the AIW and kept their Dail expenses. I do not know if this is still the case.

I suspected that from the comfortable look of them. The average industrial wage, plus expenses, is a handy enough amount.

Btw, do you know what is the current "average industrial wage" ? Has it gone down since the crash?



The issue of the AIW will increasingly become an issue for SF - apparently there have already been rumblings amongst some of the newer TDs demanding it be dropped.[/QUOTE]
Lol! It is the rumbling TDs that should be dropped.

Dr. FIVE
11-09-2013, 06:53 PM
various inquiries last year found some wages in SF were more average than others

Seán Ryan
12-09-2013, 12:31 AM
I'm seeing lots of stuff with the word "achievement" in it, indeed, I often see the plural of the word.

To me, the word achievement signifies that some advantage has been obtained or will be. I'm wondering what advantage for Ireland, or indeed, advantages for Ireland, has or have been secured for the nation and its citizens, due to Nessa's alleged achievement, or achievements, other than the advantage that she's plying the family trade over there, rather than here?

Holly
12-09-2013, 01:50 AM
I would have a lot of time for someone who quits the Labour Party nowadays.

Seán Ryan
12-09-2013, 01:57 AM
I would have a lot of time for someone who quits the Labour Party nowadays.

I'm afraid I wouldn't. I'd have a lot more respect for those who'd not touch them with a barge pole in the first instance, rather than exiting the fetid and rotting corpse of the beast after sucking what sustenance she (or he) could from it first.

Holly
12-09-2013, 02:11 AM
I'm afraid I wouldn't. I'd have a lot more respect for those who'd not touch them with a barge pole in the first instance, rather than exiting the fetid and rotting corpse of the beast after sucking what sustenance she (or he) could from it first.

I saw that episode of X-Files but I cannot remember how it ended.

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/rogerduke1/X-Files_zps7ed54ede.jpg

Seán Ryan
12-09-2013, 02:25 AM
:)

I was going for the screwworm angle. But that hits the spot too.

It troubles me that my own thoughts are beginning to affect me in a way that make me want to immediately have a shower.

WhistleblowerIRL
13-09-2013, 02:20 PM
Dear Greendoddess,

Here is a reminder of our PW exchange last November:


I am very concerned about the influence of this group on the government and our taxation policies. And will begin a campaign on it. As some of you know I uncovered letters under FOI about the FTT whose tone was described in unmentionable terms by Dcon!
This in a time of budget savagery too. It is difficult though to get the media interested . ( for some reason....)
Whistleblower, if you would like to meet, I'll send you a pm. I am actually, a real, live politician.



Dear Greengodess,

I am sure that as a politician and as a Greengodess you are kept very very busy. That is probably why I never heard from you after our meeting at the beginning this year. As you requested, I emailed you with all the relevant information shortly after we met. Alas, I received no response.

I have just emailed you with a copy of the editorial article in the latest edition of Village magazine which went on sale yesterday. I will quote and link the article to PW as soon as it is available on-line.

I look forward to your response.

Kind regards,
Jonathan Sugarman



Oh dear! Complete brain overload on my part leading to negligence. I have emailed my assistant in Dublin now. Being in two countries not so easy on occasions . No excuse though.


http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?5528-Whistleblower-Something-truly-rotten-in-the-banking-sector-Silence-from-our-politicians!!!&p=289598#post289598

Binn Beal
13-09-2013, 03:17 PM
What on earth is all this? Has someone's personal correspondence been inadvertently uploaded into a thread?

Saoirse go Deo
13-09-2013, 03:18 PM
What on earth is all this? Has someone's personal correspondence been inadvertently uploaded into a thread?

No. They are posts from another thread on the site:

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?5528-Whistleblower-Something-truly-rotten-in-the-banking-sector-Silence-from-our-politicians!!!/page8&p=288924#post288924

Binn Beal
13-09-2013, 03:24 PM
Cool. I must try that sometime.
On the substantive issue, as they say, does anyone know what they are talking about as I feel uncomfortable listening in if it is private.

C. Flower
13-09-2013, 03:41 PM
Cool. I must try that sometime.
On the substantive issue, as they say, does anyone know what they are talking about as I feel uncomfortable listening in if it is private.

I think that all that discussion is on this thread BB.

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?5528-Whistleblower-Something-truly-rotten-in-the-banking-sector-Silence-from-our-politicians!!!/page8&p=288924#post288924

Sam Lord
13-09-2013, 03:48 PM
Cool. I must try that sometime.
On the substantive issue, as they say, does anyone know what they are talking about as I feel uncomfortable listening in if it is private.

You can find out all about Whistleblower's story on his blog:

http://whistleblowerirl.blogspot.ie/2013/09/the-finance-manager-who-tried-to-play.html?=0

He was forced to quit his job at a major bank as it required him to take part in some sort of illegal liquidity shenanigans. Blew the whistle and sought action on the matter by the powers that be but none was ever forthcoming.

It seems Childers expressed an interest in his case but never followed up.

Binn Beal
13-09-2013, 04:07 PM
Thanks. Will read the blog later. Much obliged.

WhistleblowerIRL
21-09-2013, 09:25 AM
I wonder can I expect a reply to the above? It is rather disappointing to see a politician yet again make empty promises. I still have not heard from you despite what you said above. Joan Burton did exactly the same after raising the matter bashfully with Lenihan:




Written Answers - Financial Services Regulation
Thursday, 25 November 2010

86. Deputy Joan Burton Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton asked the Minister for Finance Information on Brian Joseph Lenihan Zoom on Brian Joseph Lenihan if his attention has been drawn to reports (details supplied) of major breaches of financial regulations in respect of liquidity requirements by a significant financial institution in the International Financial Services Centre; the actions he has taken on foot of these reports; if he has discussed these reports with the Financial Regulator, the Central Bank Governor, the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement or any other relevant authority; if a full investigation has been carried out, or is ongoing, to ascertain the veracity of these reports; if he envisages the introduction of new legislation, regulations or enforcement measures to ensure that breaches of this nature do not take place in the future; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44557/10]

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2010/11/25/00090.asp


Once Joan became a government minister she fell completely silent on the subject and went on to attend dinner parties with the CEO of UniCredit Bank Ireland...

I suppose champagne & canapés receptions in Brussels can make one equally forgetful, regardless of one's alleged convictions.


http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?5528-Whistleblower-Something-truly-rotten-in-the-banking-sector-Silence-from-our-politicians!!!&p=289598#post289598[/QUOTE]

Binn Beal
21-09-2013, 09:36 AM
I suppose champagne & canapés receptions in Brussels can make one equally forgetful, regardless of one's alleged convictions.
Would you reply, after a comment like that?

WhistleblowerIRL
21-09-2013, 09:54 AM
Would you reply, after a comment like that?

I think we should all continue to show great deference to our wonderful politicians who got us into the mess we are all in.

Binn Beal
21-09-2013, 10:19 AM
I think we should all continue to show great deference to our wonderful politicians who got us into the mess we are all in.
I don't agree with you there at all, at all. In fact contempt is my standard attitude for them. Now, back on the subject, you hardly expect somebody to reply to you when you insult them. Do you?

WhistleblowerIRL
21-09-2013, 11:45 AM
If Greengodess had ANY intention of following up on her declared interest in the shenanigans of UniCredit bank at the IFSC, she would have answered/followed up on her statements a long time ago.

As you can see from the exchange above, PW just one more place where Greengodess expressed an interest in UniCredit. I would not have bothered sending her all the material had she not asked for it in person 1.5 years ago. Her repeated interest declared on PW last November led to nothing - yet again....