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Dr. FIVE
20-06-2013, 11:47 PM
Breaking news on front of The Star


Some background on Cedar Lounge earlier http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/trouble-in-paradise/

PaddyJoe
21-06-2013, 12:10 AM
Only a matter of time, I suppose. Wonder what the particular trigger is right now though?

Shaadi
21-06-2013, 01:19 AM
Where to from here? I note that support for Others in the Dublin area in the IPSOS was at 21%. Not sure what the Others figures were in the 2011 GE for Dublin, but if Labour dive in Dublin, then it throws up some incredibly good opportunities for the others in Dublin and the CLP brand will be a very attractive banner to run under in Dublin.

Greengoddess
21-06-2013, 07:51 AM
Only a matter of time, I suppose. Wonder what the particular trigger is right now though?

Exhaustion with all of it at a guess

ang
21-06-2013, 08:39 AM
Patrick Nulty Statement - It is time for a “national debate” on the route to economic recovery.-

Dublin West TD Patrick Nulty has today announced that he has formally resigned as a member of the Labour Party.

Speaking following his decision Deputy Nulty said:

“I have taken the decision to resign my membership of the Labour Party. This was difficult because I have been a member of the party for over a decade. However, it was necessary.”

“I no longer believe that membership of the party is any assistance in advancing the political ideas which form the cornerstone of my value system. These ideas are social justice, equality and the creation of full employment with quality work in our society.”

“I still have great regard for the many decent, hardworking Labour members, supporters and public representatives who share my thirst for a better Ireland. However, the leadership of the party and in particular the cabinet ministers who have sacrificed core social democratic demands for their own personal political ambitions, have brought the entire political system into disrepute.”

“Trust in our political system with citizens has been broken. This means there is a need for new ideas and social movements that are accountable to citizens not powerful interests.”

“The most recent example of the Government hitting the most vulnerable hardest is the announcement that children with special education needs will not receive the resource teaching hours they require next September.”

“The Government has imposed savage cuts to housing adaption grants specifically provided to people with disabilities who need alterations to their home. We have personal insolvency guidelines published which seek to micro manage the personal finances of hard pressed families and we have seen cuts to Child Benefit which Labour had sworn to protect.”

“These are not the actions of a party that is acting in the interests of working people and a just economic recovery. That is why I have resigned. I am optimistic about the future of our country and I will continue campaigning for the radical change that is needed.”

homer
21-06-2013, 08:42 AM
Once the Irish Presidency is over, there will be ructions in Labour. that may not wait for the summer break

culmore
21-06-2013, 08:50 AM
He won't be missed.

ang
21-06-2013, 08:54 AM
Once the Irish Presidency is over, there will be ructions in Labour. that may not wait for the summer break

Yes The Presidency has helped shift focus and all on best behaviour in front of the neighbours.............

Richardbouvet
21-06-2013, 09:18 AM
This is a disaster. It leaves the party even more in control of the Gilmoristas, just at a time when progressives within the party should be mounting a challenge to the party's current direction.

C. Flower
21-06-2013, 10:43 AM
Exhaustion with all of it at a guess

There Is AN Alernative

:)

Richardbouvet
21-06-2013, 11:04 AM
"the CLP brand will be a very attractive banner to run under in Dublin. "

The trouble is that the CLP is a group within the Labour Party. Already a number of CLP people have left the party, and so by default have left the CLP.

That means that the CLP people would have to band together into a new party. No sign of that yet.

C. Flower
21-06-2013, 11:31 AM
1 million people out on the streets in Brazil last night.

No-one foresaw it.

homer
21-06-2013, 11:41 AM
1 million people out on the streets in Brazil last night.

No-one foresaw it.

Over Nulty? Wow.

PaddyJoe
21-06-2013, 12:02 PM
Patrick Nulty is coming up on Newstalk now.

C. Flower
21-06-2013, 12:58 PM
Over Nulty? Wow.

lol!

Greengoddess
21-06-2013, 02:43 PM
Yes The Presidency has helped shift focus and all on best behaviour in front of the neighbours.............

Yes big time. Now it's back to the future, etc....

Greengoddess
21-06-2013, 02:47 PM
This is a disaster. It leaves the party even more in control of the Gilmoristas, just at a time when progressives within the party should be mounting a challenge to the party's current direction.
The problem,, Richard, is that it WON'T WORK. Many of these people regard Leinster House as a mere holiday camp for thugs. With the members as irritating onlookers.

Richardbouvet
21-06-2013, 02:49 PM
So what would you suggest instead GG?

Greengoddess
21-06-2013, 02:56 PM
So what would you suggest instead GG?
I'm out of ideas myself. Man the lifeboats?

Richardbouvet
21-06-2013, 03:02 PM
Options: 1: Stay and fight. 2: Start a new party. 3: Walk away in a sulk and run as an independent.

In my view, option 3 is by far the worst.

Greengoddess
21-06-2013, 03:05 PM
Options: 1: Stay and fight. 2: Start a new party. 3: Walk away in a sulk and run as an independent.

In my view, option 3 is by far the worst.

Your not one of the seven. They grind you down and try to run you out. It takes a personal toll which is terminal.

Richardbouvet
21-06-2013, 03:32 PM
OK, I yield to your experience, but some good should come out of this if at all possible.

disability student
21-06-2013, 03:36 PM
Mc Nulty should have resigned long ago. Nothing new here.

Just it garnered few column inches.

Left to start a new party isn't credible anymore after what had happened to ULA- too many chiefs spoil the broth.

Ex Labourites must re- invent themselves as new independent candidates with no baggage.

Labour will go below 10% figure as it could be 6 or 7 as there are three successive budgets with CUTS to come and everything to play for to capture their votes or their votes will go to FF or any credible new party.

culmore
21-06-2013, 03:56 PM
if he is genuine he will resign his seat and let the people decide in a bye election, but I don't expect him to do that, just looking ahead to try and save his huge pay and expenses and junkets at the next election. he knew the programme fro government when he stood for Labour, how come he had no problems then with what was agreed

Richardbouvet
21-06-2013, 03:59 PM
"independent candidates with no baggage"

Why? just to look after their own seats and parliamentary salaries?

I am getting a little tired of moaners (like Nulty and GG?) who only seem to want to hold on to their own seats and to hell with the rest of the country.

They owe it to this country to band together with an alternative, or else simply not contest their seats next time.

disability student
21-06-2013, 04:05 PM
"independent candidates with no baggage"

Why? just to look after their own seats and parliamentary salaries?

I am getting a little tired of moaners (like Nulty and GG?) who only seem to want to hold on to their own seats and to hell with the rest of the country.

They owe it to this country to band together with an alternative, or else simply not contest their seats next time.

At that point, i agree with you there. It's our job to make voters aware that it's no point giving votes to Independent labour candidates as they are only thinking for themselves and also self serving as well.

Bring on Ganley whether we like it or not.

Holly
21-06-2013, 04:43 PM
This is a disaster. It leaves the party even more in control of the Gilmoristas, just at a time when progressives within the party should be mounting a challenge to the party's current direction.
Nulty would have been given the cold shoulder in the Dáil by his Labour colleagues. Party members in Ireland are expected to do as their Leader says and button their lips in public if they dare have a different opinion. They are told how to vote or else scram. The party faithful are a mean-spirited bunch.


"the CLP brand will be a very attractive banner to run under in Dublin. " ...
What does CLP mean?


Options: 1: Stay and fight. 2: Start a new party. 3: Walk away in a sulk and run as an independent.
There is another option: Walk away with dignity and run as an independent or join another party.


Your not one of the seven. They grind you down and try to run you out. It takes a personal toll which is terminal.
Yes, Labour TDs will positively despise an independent thinker. It is not how they do politics.


Mc Nulty should have resigned long ago.
Sometimes it takes a while for the hostility to sink-in.


Labour will go below 10% figure as it could be 6 or 7 as there are three successive budgets with CUTS to come and everything to play for to capture their votes or their votes will go to FF or any credible new party.
Labour deserve to be finished because of the way they put Enda Kenny in power and sustain a right-wing government. The Dublin Labour votes will go to Sinn Féin or a strong radical Independent. Aodhán Ó Riordáin in the new Dublin Bay North constituency will be in trouble from Tommy Broughan.


if he is genuine he will resign his seat and let the people decide in a bye election,
No, the people of West Dublin elected him to represent them and not be a rubber stamp for essentially Fine Gwael policies.


but I don't expect him to do that,
Neither does anyone.


just looking ahead to try and save his huge pay and expenses and junkets at the next election. he knew the programme fro government when he stood for Labour, how come he had no problems then with what was agreed
This is the cynical line of current Labour backbench sheep.


... just to look after their own seats and parliamentary salaries?
No; allow for the possibility that there are some people with integrity.


I am getting a little tired of moaners (like Nulty and GG?) who only seem to want to hold on to their own seats and to hell with the rest of the country.
"Seem" to you but not to me. Who is GG by the way?


They owe it to this country to band together with an alternative, or else simply not contest their seats next time.
There is nothing wrong with being an independent only with a system that marginalizes their constituents' voices.

Richardbouvet
21-06-2013, 04:58 PM
"There is nothing wrong with being an independent only with a system that marginalizes their constituents' voices."

True, Tony Gregory was such a person and he did a magnificent job.

However, TDs like Nulty were elected to change the country, not just to look after their own seats or constituencies. By not helping to establishing a new national political force they are wasting their talents and throwing away the prospect of political change.

Binn Beal
21-06-2013, 05:07 PM
This resignation proves that those, here and elsewhere, who speak out against the corrupt snouters are having an effect. Let's keep the pressure on!

Holly
21-06-2013, 05:30 PM
... TDs like Nulty were elected to change the country,
That's a tall order for one man.


not just to look after their own seats or constituencies.
This is the accusation made against Nulty by Aodhán Ó Riordáin and one which I don't share.


By not helping to establishing a new national political force they are wasting their talents and throwing away the prospect of political change.
Help who. for Pete's sake?


This resignation proves that those, here and elsewhere, who speak out against the corrupt snouters are having an effect. Let's keep the pressure on!
I believe you are right, BB.

PaddyJoe
21-06-2013, 05:39 PM
On Drivetime now.

PaddyJoe
21-06-2013, 05:48 PM
Dodges the question about closer relations with Joe Higgins or other sections of the left. But SF is definitely out.
;)

Jolly Red Giant
21-06-2013, 06:02 PM
Dodges the question about closer relations with Joe Higgins or other sections of the left.
Let's see if Nulty is willing to put his neck on the line campaigning against austerity.

Greengoddess
21-06-2013, 07:57 PM
Let's see if Nulty is willing to put his neck on the line campaigning against austerity.

He has already.

culmore
21-06-2013, 08:05 PM
holly, Correction the people of Dublin West elected him as a Labour TD with the full support of the party

Jolly Red Giant
21-06-2013, 08:24 PM
He has already.
Was he out campaigning for a boycott of the household charge and the property tax?

Was he out campaigning for a No vote to CP2 and visiting workers in their workplaces to persuade them it was not in their interests to have it passed?

Jolly Red Giant
21-06-2013, 08:27 PM
holly, Correction the people of Dublin West elected him as a Labour TD with the full support of the party

The LP would not have won the seat without Nulty and Nulty would not have won it without the LP - the by-election came at the most opportune time for both.

Nulty knows that living in Joan Burton's back yard, membership of the LP would drag him down to a humiliating defeat with her. His only prospect of surviving was by jumping from the sinking ship. Like a lot of other LP representatives he is now swimming around in a sea of independents hoping for a lifeboat of some sort.

culmore
21-06-2013, 08:45 PM
holly, correction the people of Dublin West elected him as a Labour TD

Dr. FIVE
21-06-2013, 08:55 PM
lol at Ruairi Quinn saying "could have came and talked to me" as if there haven't been public campaigns running for months

Shaadi
21-06-2013, 09:22 PM
"the CLP brand will be a very attractive banner to run under in Dublin. "

The trouble is that the CLP is a group within the Labour Party. Already a number of CLP people have left the party, and so by default have left the CLP.

That means that the CLP people would have to band together into a new party. No sign of that yet.Formerly dissident Labour members who tried and failed to change Labour's direction in Govt. Now they're going to be ex-Labour party members running on a platform of traditional Labour values. They don't have to band together to run, but they should if they can, because there's a lot of public support for a more traditional Labour party. Politics is about getting into a position of power to do something, in Labour Nulty found himself in a position of powerlessness, the CLP wasn't working, the Dimples O'Deary style right wing leadership and the DL element are in complete control. So, he wisely removed himself from a party that has removed itself from the working class, and I wish him well in his new political career. If Labour can sort itself out, then I'm sure he'd be quite happy to go back to them, in the mean time he's getting on with no longer being in the Social Democrat wing of FG...

Holly
21-06-2013, 10:04 PM
holly, correction the people of Dublin West elected him as a Labour TD

He was elected by the people of Dublin West to represent their confidence in the Labour manifesto, not a blind commitment to Fine Gwael policy better known as the Program for Government.

culmore
21-06-2013, 10:21 PM
Holly you are wrong again, when he was elected the programme for government was in place and that was Labour policy also.

Holly
22-06-2013, 12:40 AM
Holly you are wrong again, when he was elected the programme for government was in place and that was Labour policy also.

You are wrong again, culmore. The Labour Party cannot ethically abrogate its manifesto with a "Program for Government". It did not have a mandate from the voters who elected them to do this dishonorable thing. Nulty made a committment to the people of Dublin West to represent them and attempt to fulfill the Labour Party Manifesto as best he can.

Jolly Red Giant
22-06-2013, 12:54 AM
He was elected by the people of Dublin West to represent their confidence in the Labour manifesto,
He was elected by the people of Dublin West because he was seen as a bit of a lefty, had just lost out on a seat in the general election a few months previously, and because the by-election took place a couple of weeks before the budget that saw the working class shafted by FG and LP. If the by-election had taken place in December Nulty would not have won the seat.

Richardbouvet
22-06-2013, 11:30 AM
"If the by-election had taken place in December Nulty would not have won the seat." Probably true. FF would have won the seat.

Anyway, Red Giant does not, of course, want to see anyone who might take votes from Joe Higgins.

Binn Beal
22-06-2013, 11:37 AM
Absolutely. Joe Higgins is a clear and committed socialist and a much-needed spokesman for the people who are suffering from this austerity government.
I look forward to Nulty's maiden speech to see if he has any values.

Jolly Red Giant
22-06-2013, 12:54 PM
"If the by-election had taken place in December Nulty would not have won the seat." Probably true. FF would have won the seat.
No - the Socialist Party would have won the seat - Nulty would have been down 3,000-4,000 votes and the Socialist Party would have been up a similar amount.


Anyway, Red Giant does not, of course, want to see anyone who might take votes from Joe Higgins.
Neither the Socialist Party nor Joe Higgins are in the least bit worried about Nulty - the Socialist Party will be targetting Burton and Varadker for a second seat in Dublin West.

Binn Beal
22-06-2013, 06:47 PM
Does anyone know what Nulty stands for, if anything. I have looked at his website and am none the wiser.

La Chime
22-06-2013, 07:12 PM
Im always a believer actions speak louder then words- on his website patrick has a few statements and posts in opposition to water charges- now that patrick nulty is an independent it will be interesting to see if patrick will back a future call for a boycott of water charges and if he will help build a boycott in his own area.

Binn Beal
22-06-2013, 08:21 PM
It will be interesting to see Patrick's views all right.

Holly
23-06-2013, 02:31 AM
It will be interesting to see Patrick's views all right.

It is clear that Nulty is siding with people who cannot make ends meet and who are being squeezed ever more by the capitalist policies of Labour/Fine Gwael. There is no mystery here.

Richardbouvet
23-06-2013, 04:43 PM
"It is clear that Nulty is siding with people who cannot make ends meet and who are being squeezed ever more by the capitalist policies of Labour/Fine Gwael. There is no mystery here."

+1

Binn Beal
23-06-2013, 04:49 PM
There is no mystery here.
Well apart from what he stands for, his values, his views, his policies...

Holly
24-06-2013, 12:59 AM
Well apart from what he stands for, his values, his views, his policies...

He stands for the low income and vulnerable people of Dublin West. He values the obligation of a government to care for those in need. His view is that TDs are not ribber stamps for whatever the Cabinet want. His policies are published in the Labour Manifesto, not the Program for Government.

Binn Beal
24-06-2013, 02:44 PM
Could you post them here or offer a link?
Neither I nor Ms Google can find anything - and as you probably know, he says nothing on his website.